The Axel kill makes sense on some level, as fulcrum tried to leverage it later to prove her towniness. (Fulcrum was in the friendly chat and conversed secretly with KCC/last to have KCC busdrive axel.) I was confused at the time, but sure. Nice play.
But. Silver had SOME scum equity?
it doesnt matter, the day phase is going to just be me and killjoy
wolf!me probably doesnt kill Silver since thats probably game throwing on my part
wolf!killjoy kills Silver because ??? maybe he thinks Silver had to be town after that? but like Proph would've been a better kill
this is just going to be battle between me and Killjoy, but IDK if I am going to do anything unless I need to
we do need all town votes here to achieve a lynch though
I found fulcrum taking up for killjoy and last on different occasion so that's fun. Fulcrum even put last and killjoy in the same scummish area-- obviously couldn't have foreseen it taking this long or making it this far but who knows?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Me and fulcrum are never partners though. I mean, I'm pretty biased, but look at her response to my suggesting that last/fulcrum is a thing. She immedately tries to show posts that mean that her and Last aren't buddies. I'm pretty ride-or-die with Last being scum, and was then too. Why would my buddy actively make it harder to tie him and her together?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Killjoy having been on Last's case for the last few days has been real weird, honestly, and I trust Vaimes's instincts on Last being town rn. Last SEEMED to have only started on Killjoy after KJ started in on Last.
Based on that bit of behavior, I wanna just vote KJ and get it over with, but I also wanna hear what Proph and KJ have to say.
I just REALLY don't want to keep doing this for another week.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Maybe scum wanted to jumpstart my indecision/paranoia at EoD Yesterday into a possible mislynch on me?
KJ: Theoretically, Last could have some extra abilities, but it would be extremely strange for a Dreaming God variant to have extra, EXTRA abilities combined with the Dreaming God role. It would be an extremely inelegant role; plus, I still think that Last is still very behaviorally townie.
If you're somehow town, KJ, I would love to see this case of yours, because it will aid me in helping me read you and helping me read Last.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Also the tournament went well, I was playing a team tournament and was playing the legacy seat
Top 8'd with kind of a brew (Urza Bomberman) and it was insane. Urza, Karn, Emry, and Sai give you so many must answer threats that instantly win the game if left unchecked)
My gut + Occam's tells me it's just KJ, but I'm gonna put in the work and reread the game. Fulcrum had me played like a frickin' fiddle Yesterday, and I haven't processed the game yet with knowledge of her flip.
I will say that the Silver kill doesn't look great for KJ objectively.
Me and fulcrum are never partners though. I mean, I'm pretty biased, but look at her response to my suggesting that last/fulcrum is a thing. She immedately tries to show posts that mean that her and Last aren't buddies. I'm pretty ride-or-die with Last being scum, and was then too. Why would my buddy actively make it harder to tie him and her together?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
As I write this, I'm gonna try and get you to realize I'm actually just not part of this scumteam. There's some info you're missing here and it's gonna suck when we lose and I told you so.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
As I write this, I'm gonna try and get you to realize I'm actually just not part of this scumteam. There's some info you're missing here and it's gonna suck when we lose and I told you so.
I mean, sure, I'm gonna do my best to keep an open mind here. That's what lylo is for.
LAst: What did you think when fulcrum was trying to show you weren't aliged?
hmm?
its not just PoE? but like the wolf just has to be in you or Silver, outside worlds where the wolves slowed roll or they just weren't on during the same time
I was on Silver for a long time, if the wolves were fulcrum/Asta we should have lost
so ya I went through Mind's iso in DITF, as short as it was, because he replaced out
and I don't really see a difference right now between this game and that game
I think his content is all just fake, especially the tone he puts out in his last post
#sorrynotsorry
Yeah I've just read through that entire conversation y'all had earlier Today and I feel like I only understand half of what was said.
"Revenge" shouldn't affect our decision making process Today; we should lynch who we want to Today. I will say that the presence of the Revenge ability makes me a little more amiable to me being lynched if that's where we want to go Today but I still think I have the game solved.
my vote was on fulcrum because I think she can be a wolf, but I also dont, but I also just want her out of the game because I don't want to **** this game up
the revenge would be a bonus if she does happen to flip town
Bruh.
stop bruhing me
And I'm not scum with Last @killjoy, he tried to kill me multiple times and just look at literally any of our interactions, this isn't fakeable.
She did a thing where she tries to show last isn't scum with her/scum with the flipped scum. My point there is, if I was also in the scumteam that is contrary to me winning ToDay. If people believe her, I'm probably dead.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
that's just wine,
like who else is he gunna focus on? he cant talk about how town you are, because he had a blue check on you
he can't defend Proph since he was on proph for most of the later game
My point is in fulcrum/me world, it makes it harder for me to win. Like I said, I'm ride or die for you. I was yesterday. Trying to limit how I can tie you to fulcrum/DK means I can't get you lynched nearly as easily.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
what makes this game harder for you, is that instead of helping your partner push a lynch that could actually happen, you focused on me, which was literally you banking on a lylo win, and even then, pushing me is literally so sub-optimal
seriously, why do you try so hard to reach on me being a wolf, rather than pushing Proph or Asta if you are wolf
I literally do not understand?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
That would be extremely suboptimal if I were in that scumteam, you're right.
Still think I'm scum with fulcrum though. Because PoE.
ya and thats just wine, again
those are the easiest arguements to make as a wolf, talking about what you wouldnt have done if you were a wolf
and stop making it sound like PoEing you is so wolfy
you have never once tried to see me as town, it was mostly, "this makes me reconsider, but I'm not going to"
while even trying to see you as town last day phase, you just continued to focus me
Why was fulcrum a wolf to you? Why did you vote her?
because to me, your only argument was that she makes sense as a wolf for me
you had no right to hammer there, but you did
no paranoia, no worry, just hammered her, out of nowhere
while me and Proph were still hedging on Silver
I have behavioral reasons to think you're scum, plus I think your role has room for the other missing stuff that's happeened.
You haven't been acting town. I just finished going through your ISO and see you jumping around getting town lynched, only lynching scum when the rest of the town push so hard you can't avoid it.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Why was fulcrum a wolf to you? Why did you vote her?
because to me, your only argument was that she makes sense as a wolf for me
you had no right to hammer there, but you did
no paranoia, no worry, just hammered her, out of nowhere
while me and Proph were still hedging on Silver
That was a reason, yes.
But I didn't beleive Silver was scum, so therefore it probably wasn't Asta. Also it probably wasn't Asta for independent reasons. I was hedging Proph as scum with you instead for a bit but then decided against it.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
so because I hedged and I voted lots of town?
I mean I am allowed to be wrong, like Proph and I stated, this game was hard
the problem with you, is you can't seem to argue both sides
its just, "x is town, or y is scum"
and you in particular shouldnt be that sure
I over the course of this game I looked at both sides of everything, I could find town things from all my wolf reads
you can't name anything townie from me out of 1200 posts? I don't believe that
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Proph: talk at me from a design perspective why lasts role makes sense as is in this setup. I see space for more, you don't, one of us is wrong and I'd like to figure out which.
I'm tinfoiling Asta a bit because of Eurovision. This day reminds me of the last day of that where me and cantrip shouted at each other while vezok say back and waited to pounce. I just want to eliminate that possibility before it festers too much.
Silver confirmed that Asta was targeted, right? What night was that?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KJ: Why are you "tinfoiling" Asta? Isn't Asta confirmed town because he could have hammered Silver with his double vote Yesterday when fulcrum and Last were on Silver? Shouldn't you be "tinfoiling" *me* instead?
Quote from Killjoy »
She did a thing where she tries to show last isn't scum with her/scum with the flipped scum. My point there is, if I was also in the scumteam that is contrary to me winning ToDay. If people believe her, I'm probably dead.
I agree with Last in that I feel like that particular interaction is mostly WiFOM. I would want to look at fulcrum interactions from not Yesterday but much earlier in the game - I feel like fulcrum spilled a bottle of wine across all of her interactions Yesterday and I would not want to look at them because of that.
Quote from Lastwhisper »
because to me, your only argument was that she makes sense as a wolf for me
you had no right to hammer there, but you did
no paranoia, no worry, just hammered her, out of nowhere
while me and Proph were still hedging on Silver
Also agree with Last on this. While Last and I were wavering, you just showed up out of nowhere to hammer fulcrum after Last voted her (Last voted her at 1:03, you voted her at 1:04). You showing up literally out of nowhere to hammer fulcrum can't help but make me think that something was coordinated there.
KJ: Can you give me a detailed account of what was going through your mind between when you went to sleep that Friday morning, and when you showed up at 1 PM to hammer fulcrum?
Again, I would love to see this case from KJ when he gets around to it, because I don't really understand atm why KJ is scumreading Last. The only thing he has so far is "Last hasn't been acting town" which isn't super convincing.
Would like Asta to talk to me about who he thinks is mafia because he is essentially clear
I'll have to elaborate on thoughts more thoroughly when not at work, proph, but right now it's a heavy lean towards voting kj. KJ has been overtly calm and collected while Last has been obviously emotional in a consistent way that doesn't feel fake over 1100 posts. More nuance coming later, hopefully.
Proph: It's probably not you because there's no real room in your role for more things. You sent an orb every Night, therefore you can't have used the missing abilities such as Asta's message.
Looking back Asta does look clear since Last and fulcrum were both on Silver and could have won there. I feel like I knew that when I hammered.
It has to be Last then, for sure. I'll continue my case now.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
All of this is just weird. Fulcrum tried to insist they weren't working with Last, which I think pointed to fulcrum not thinking they get lynched and/or trying to pocket Last or gain general towncred. Also, the argument between Fulcrum and Killjoy feels like it helps push the two apart while both were pushing Last and Proph as possible alternate wagons to fulcrum.
Okay, so fulcrum claimed to have used the ability to ping Killjoy as definitely not a mafia, then traded the ability over to Vaimes to confirm that it was a very real ability that they had. We know fulcrum is mafia and could have outright lied about THAT. Hell, fulcrum did a bit where she insisted we kill her before we kill vaimes, which was almost certainly a big smokescreen to obscure her being scum. So the vaimes trick was a big play. It's obviously suspect now and ultimately worth nothing.
So fulcrum has had some extensive interactions with both Killjoy and Last which seemed to be initially beneficial and attempting to clear them.
I dunno, all of this just feels like a scum!KJ world. What do you think about the fulcrum actions, Proph?
Like I absolutely register that fulcrum could have been with last and made the killjoy play early on just like dkings linked himself to me, thereby having town involved in the clearing process. But I dunno, Last's ability suite and general attitude has felt more definitively town.
Ok. I'm finally almost done, but my back is hurting again so I'm gonna take another break. I will try to do more work tonight but tomorrow morning seems like a more likely time for it.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Will probably wait until KJ puts out his case before fully attempting to start rereading the game
Asta, I am also leaning towards scum!killjoy, but I want to read his case and Last's response to it, as well as look over Days 1/2/3/4, before making an ultimate conclusion
I have some free time tomorrow and Wednesday so hopefully I can dive into things then
Proph: I mean, yeah I'm tinfoiling you but I literally can't see a way for those missing abilities and you to be connected, outside of them being factional and your buddies being the ones to use them. And honestly that seems... inelegant. And requires more assumptions than I'm currently making. So I'm just not gonna go there.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I am kinda just waiting for killjoy's case at this point
regardless of either of our alignments, me and killjoy both play a strong game, so there's that at least
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
332: I dont know at this point of Rhand is trying to inflate the how scummy he thinks Axel's question is, is malicious, or just how he sees it 648: He’s null, because “he doesn’t have a reason to hate him yet.” 691: He’s still null, was made in response to Silver’s mini Rhand case (690). Last says he’s gonna ISO him. 747, Last is against voting Rhand because of the veracity of his scumread on Silver. 866: Still doesn’t want to lynch Rhand today. 966,988,991: 966 is actually a bunch of decently hardball questions to Rhand. After that though, he backs off immediately. 1278: Ranks Rhand as scummiest of his null reads. 2530: Per his reads list: There’s no reason to think he’s town. 3166: Rhand’s push on Vaimes is +town 3437: Rhand’s push, looking back, was somewhat forced, so he will happily vote there. 3507,3508: Votes Rhand, after first accidently voting Proph.
He kept Rhand as an option for as long as he could until he couldn’t anymore. He maintained a nullread for more than 3000 posts, then is just suddenly ok with lynching him. Rhand was under significant pressure for a bit there and he still didn’t commit to a read there.
Handling DK
Here’s the progression on DK:
427, 430: Kinda has a reason to vote DK, doesn’t want to because paranoia, then criticizes the fact that dk is a wagon at all. 453: 453 is a response to Silver’s 431, where Silver asks how DK’s position on the Axel wagon is different to Silver’s. Last’s response is that he “doesn’t think it's wolfy anyways, but like it's super easy for wolves to just say, "why is this even a train" 485: Criticizes the DK train being a thing by saying he only has 6 posts, and there’s nothing damning in them, but he’s not above neutral. 648: Null in reads list still. 737: DK shouldn’t be a train, Change My Mind meme. 1494: DK still a shrug, he guesses. 1861, 1869: Following the death of Gemma, there “has to be a wolf in Axel/DK.” We need to lynch in one of Axel/DK. I’d assume town!him would push dk hard here given that Axel claimed Watcher and he apparently believed him. 2770: Says he thinks DK’s claim is legit because of it’s complexity. I’m noting there’s not any suspicion here, so this feels like his read is going the other way, towards town. 3012: So this one is a bit weird. He eventually( is currently? I don’t remember) pushes that Grape and Vezok might be lying about their masonhood. The fact that LAst works DK into this feels awkward to me. 3055: “On the off chance” that DK isn’t BG, Asta is always a wolf.Asta was tonally town/pure, and that’s all he has going for him. DK’s claim is not just normal BG and so is more likely town. DK’s posts aren’t specifically townie. 3114, 3124: Pushes Proph for pushing DK, even though Asta confirmed he got BGed. Also thinks that Proph is TMIing that DK is scum (despite not believing dk is scum still) but in that world all of Proph/Asta/DK are scum. Or “he’s just wrong.” 3953: Here he votes Asta over DK, He should still think both are wolves together, but it’s just potentially noteable that he votes the town first over DK. 4366: Thinks that how DK handled Proph today was wolfy. 4415.4417: This is the first time I’ve felt like town Last solving things.Specifically this is the first time I’ve felt that Last was legit scumreading a scum. 4904,4905: Distancing from DK post death.
He wobbles on DK for quite a long time, leaning toward liking him for town for the longest time, but also pushing other people because of DK. Overall it’s kinda a weird position to have DK at. The only read he really commits to with DK is that he thinks he’s BG. After that, the next commitment he makes is just before he’s lynched. In scum!Last world, they would have just decided to bus him at this point because dk was mostly absent that day and might as well get some town points.
Handling fulcrum
My notes here are less substancial because when I made the notes I didn’t know fulcrum was scum yet.
648: Reads list: fulcrum is read because tom says so. Noteable that he has a strong behavioral scumread on Mind and Vezok at this point, so putting fulcrum lower seems ???. 2530: Hard reading fulcrum, not pushing her. 3055: Fulcrum not likely to come from a wolf.
Actually interactions with fulcrum have been the best out of the three. I think in scum!Last world, the fake scumread on her would be a thing. It’s noteable though that he did things like suggest that Vezok seriously consider fulcrum for his kingmaker lynch. He also alternates between DK and fulcrum around when DK died. Overall, I think if they’re scum together, it all was coordinated in scumchat.
Voting Record
He doesn’t vote during RVS. He’s here, and doing things, but doesn’t vote. This isn’t always a tell, but it’s worth noting I feel, especially with how opinionated Last typically is. The first time he actually voted for scum (DK) was in 1793, but there’s no real progression showing me that it’s suspicion that came on naturally, and it’s not really substantiated.There’s also a bit just before we lynch DK (around 4218ish) where he keeps voting DK, then jumps to a townie (and fulcrum). and then back to dk. I believe this was pushing away from dk. I believe that fulcrum wasn’t really under any pressure right then, so those votes were probably safe. I believe it might also be noteable that in 3507, he votes Proph accidently, when he meant to vote Rhand (3508).
Late Mindreaver Vote 546, 610,611, 630: Votes Mindreaver for calling saying last’s entrance was ‘townier than it’s been in a while’ or something of that nature and Last kinda latches onto that. I believe it’s noteable that Mind hasn’t had that opinion for about 500 posts, so this vote is really weak on a townie. I also noted in my VCA post that this vote is partially a sheep on Tom.
So, most of these still make a lot of sense in scum!Last world. The one that really doesn’t anymore is this last Keldeo one. Most of the others though, he’s the only non-town in the 5+ cluster. This is still relevent as scum usually reside in these clusters. It’s also of note that with the exception of the Rhand wagon, they’re all on town. And for the Rhand wagon, there’s guaranteed to be a scum there because the other three were on Axelrod at the time, and the two nonvoters were town.
Summary
A lot of my suspicion here is due to his positioning, in general. He spends most of the time pushing/voting town, His pushes on town don’t feel genuine to me as with Mindreaver. It took him almost 1800 posts to actually vote for a scum, and more than 3000 to vote for a scum he was pushing to any real degree.He fence sits two of his scumbuddies for most of the game, with the third having somewhat decent handing, but then IIRC she also had some weird positions on her buddies as well I think, so I’d want to say that was planned.
Maybe he’s just been wrong for most of the game, but I feel like all these things added together adds up to scum.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
wolf!me probably doesnt kill Silver since thats probably game throwing on my part
wolf!killjoy kills Silver because ??? maybe he thinks Silver had to be town after that? but like Proph would've been a better kill
this is just going to be battle between me and Killjoy, but IDK if I am going to do anything unless I need to
we do need all town votes here to achieve a lynch though
@Last: You have to have a better reason than PoE to scumread me. Name it.
Based on that bit of behavior, I wanna just vote KJ and get it over with, but I also wanna hear what Proph and KJ have to say.
I just REALLY don't want to keep doing this for another week.
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Curse PremiumMaybe scum wanted to jumpstart my indecision/paranoia at EoD Yesterday into a possible mislynch on me?
KJ: Theoretically, Last could have some extra abilities, but it would be extremely strange for a Dreaming God variant to have extra, EXTRA abilities combined with the Dreaming God role. It would be an extremely inelegant role; plus, I still think that Last is still very behaviorally townie.
If you're somehow town, KJ, I would love to see this case of yours, because it will aid me in helping me read you and helping me read Last.
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Curse PremiumTop 8'd with kind of a brew (Urza Bomberman) and it was insane. Urza, Karn, Emry, and Sai give you so many must answer threats that instantly win the game if left unchecked)
My gut + Occam's tells me it's just KJ, but I'm gonna put in the work and reread the game. Fulcrum had me played like a frickin' fiddle Yesterday, and I haven't processed the game yet with knowledge of her flip.
I will say that the Silver kill doesn't look great for KJ objectively.
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Curse PremiumI mean, sure, I'm gonna do my best to keep an open mind here. That's what lylo is for.
its not just PoE? but like the wolf just has to be in you or Silver, outside worlds where the wolves slowed roll or they just weren't on during the same time
I was on Silver for a long time, if the wolves were fulcrum/Asta we should have lost
like who else is he gunna focus on? he cant talk about how town you are, because he had a blue check on you
he can't defend Proph since he was on proph for most of the later game
so my hand is forced
are u going to re-evaluate?
I've talked about the reasons Proph/Asta are more likely to be town
seriously, why do you try so hard to reach on me being a wolf, rather than pushing Proph or Asta if you are wolf
I literally do not understand?
Still think I'm scum with fulcrum though. Because PoE.
those are the easiest arguements to make as a wolf, talking about what you wouldnt have done if you were a wolf
and stop making it sound like PoEing you is so wolfy
you have never once tried to see me as town, it was mostly, "this makes me reconsider, but I'm not going to"
while even trying to see you as town last day phase, you just continued to focus me
because to me, your only argument was that she makes sense as a wolf for me
you had no right to hammer there, but you did
no paranoia, no worry, just hammered her, out of nowhere
while me and Proph were still hedging on Silver
You haven't been acting town. I just finished going through your ISO and see you jumping around getting town lynched, only lynching scum when the rest of the town push so hard you can't avoid it.
If town you is here, I haven't seen him.
But I didn't beleive Silver was scum, so therefore it probably wasn't Asta. Also it probably wasn't Asta for independent reasons. I was hedging Proph as scum with you instead for a bit but then decided against it.
I mean I am allowed to be wrong, like Proph and I stated, this game was hard
the problem with you, is you can't seem to argue both sides
its just, "x is town, or y is scum"
and you in particular shouldnt be that sure
I over the course of this game I looked at both sides of everything, I could find town things from all my wolf reads
you can't name anything townie from me out of 1200 posts? I don't believe that
neither of those make a wolf
anyways I am going to sleep
good night
I'm tinfoiling Asta a bit because of Eurovision. This day reminds me of the last day of that where me and cantrip shouted at each other while vezok say back and waited to pounce. I just want to eliminate that possibility before it festers too much.
Silver confirmed that Asta was targeted, right? What night was that?
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Curse PremiumI agree with Last in that I feel like that particular interaction is mostly WiFOM. I would want to look at fulcrum interactions from not Yesterday but much earlier in the game - I feel like fulcrum spilled a bottle of wine across all of her interactions Yesterday and I would not want to look at them because of that.
Also agree with Last on this. While Last and I were wavering, you just showed up out of nowhere to hammer fulcrum after Last voted her (Last voted her at 1:03, you voted her at 1:04). You showing up literally out of nowhere to hammer fulcrum can't help but make me think that something was coordinated there.
KJ: Can you give me a detailed account of what was going through your mind between when you went to sleep that Friday morning, and when you showed up at 1 PM to hammer fulcrum?
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Curse PremiumAgain, I would love to see this case from KJ when he gets around to it, because I don't really understand atm why KJ is scumreading Last. The only thing he has so far is "Last hasn't been acting town" which isn't super convincing.
Would like Asta to talk to me about who he thinks is mafia because he is essentially clear
@Asta
honestly, I am so glad I didn't lynch you guys in between all my paranoia
Looking back Asta does look clear since Last and fulcrum were both on Silver and could have won there. I feel like I knew that when I hammered.
It has to be Last then, for sure. I'll continue my case now.
Okay, so fulcrum claimed to have used the ability to ping Killjoy as definitely not a mafia, then traded the ability over to Vaimes to confirm that it was a very real ability that they had. We know fulcrum is mafia and could have outright lied about THAT. Hell, fulcrum did a bit where she insisted we kill her before we kill vaimes, which was almost certainly a big smokescreen to obscure her being scum. So the vaimes trick was a big play. It's obviously suspect now and ultimately worth nothing.
So fulcrum has had some extensive interactions with both Killjoy and Last which seemed to be initially beneficial and attempting to clear them.
I dunno, all of this just feels like a scum!KJ world. What do you think about the fulcrum actions, Proph?
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Curse PremiumAsta, I am also leaning towards scum!killjoy, but I want to read his case and Last's response to it, as well as look over Days 1/2/3/4, before making an ultimate conclusion
I have some free time tomorrow and Wednesday so hopefully I can dive into things then
Back to the grind.
regardless of either of our alignments, me and killjoy both play a strong game, so there's that at least
247: vezok
450, killjoy
481 shadow
546: Mind
917 Vaimes
1169 Vaimes
1239 Nacho
1279 Vaimes
1521 Axel
1546 KCC
1651 Axel
1793 DK
1879 No Lynch
3114 Proph
3507 Proph
3508 Rhand
3543 Proph
3622 Fulcrum
3668 Keldeo
3953 Asta
3968 KCC
3984 Keldeo
4131 Silver
4218 Asta
4230 DK
4259 Fulcrum
4307 DK
4323 Asta
4349 DK
4412 KCC
4430 DK
4527 DK
4573 Fulcrum
4721 DK
Handling Rhand
Here’s the progression on Rhand:
332: I dont know at this point of Rhand is trying to inflate the how scummy he thinks Axel's question is, is malicious, or just how he sees it
648: He’s null, because “he doesn’t have a reason to hate him yet.”
691: He’s still null, was made in response to Silver’s mini Rhand case (690). Last says he’s gonna ISO him.
747, Last is against voting Rhand because of the veracity of his scumread on Silver.
866: Still doesn’t want to lynch Rhand today.
966,988,991: 966 is actually a bunch of decently hardball questions to Rhand. After that though, he backs off immediately.
1278: Ranks Rhand as scummiest of his null reads.
2530: Per his reads list: There’s no reason to think he’s town.
3166: Rhand’s push on Vaimes is +town
3437: Rhand’s push, looking back, was somewhat forced, so he will happily vote there.
3507, 3508: Votes Rhand, after first accidently voting Proph.
He kept Rhand as an option for as long as he could until he couldn’t anymore. He maintained a nullread for more than 3000 posts, then is just suddenly ok with lynching him. Rhand was under significant pressure for a bit there and he still didn’t commit to a read there.
Handling DK
Here’s the progression on DK:
427, 430: Kinda has a reason to vote DK, doesn’t want to because paranoia, then criticizes the fact that dk is a wagon at all.
453: 453 is a response to Silver’s 431, where Silver asks how DK’s position on the Axel wagon is different to Silver’s. Last’s response is that he “doesn’t think it's wolfy anyways, but like it's super easy for wolves to just say, "why is this even a train"
485: Criticizes the DK train being a thing by saying he only has 6 posts, and there’s nothing damning in them, but he’s not above neutral.
648: Null in reads list still.
737: DK shouldn’t be a train, Change My Mind meme.
1494: DK still a shrug, he guesses.
1861, 1869: Following the death of Gemma, there “has to be a wolf in Axel/DK.” We need to lynch in one of Axel/DK. I’d assume town!him would push dk hard here given that Axel claimed Watcher and he apparently believed him.
2770: Says he thinks DK’s claim is legit because of it’s complexity. I’m noting there’s not any suspicion here, so this feels like his read is going the other way, towards town.
3012: So this one is a bit weird. He eventually( is currently? I don’t remember) pushes that Grape and Vezok might be lying about their masonhood. The fact that LAst works DK into this feels awkward to me.
3055: “On the off chance” that DK isn’t BG, Asta is always a wolf.Asta was tonally town/pure, and that’s all he has going for him. DK’s claim is not just normal BG and so is more likely town. DK’s posts aren’t specifically townie.
3114, 3124: Pushes Proph for pushing DK, even though Asta confirmed he got BGed. Also thinks that Proph is TMIing that DK is scum (despite not believing dk is scum still) but in that world all of Proph/Asta/DK are scum. Or “he’s just wrong.”
3953: Here he votes Asta over DK, He should still think both are wolves together, but it’s just potentially noteable that he votes the town first over DK.
4366: Thinks that how DK handled Proph today was wolfy.
4415.4417: This is the first time I’ve felt like town Last solving things.Specifically this is the first time I’ve felt that Last was legit scumreading a scum.
4904, 4905: Distancing from DK post death.
He wobbles on DK for quite a long time, leaning toward liking him for town for the longest time, but also pushing other people because of DK. Overall it’s kinda a weird position to have DK at. The only read he really commits to with DK is that he thinks he’s BG. After that, the next commitment he makes is just before he’s lynched. In scum!Last world, they would have just decided to bus him at this point because dk was mostly absent that day and might as well get some town points.
Handling fulcrum
My notes here are less substancial because when I made the notes I didn’t know fulcrum was scum yet.
648: Reads list: fulcrum is read because tom says so. Noteable that he has a strong behavioral scumread on Mind and Vezok at this point, so putting fulcrum lower seems ???.
2530: Hard reading fulcrum, not pushing her.
3055: Fulcrum not likely to come from a wolf.
Actually interactions with fulcrum have been the best out of the three. I think in scum!Last world, the fake scumread on her would be a thing. It’s noteable though that he did things like suggest that Vezok seriously consider fulcrum for his kingmaker lynch. He also alternates between DK and fulcrum around when DK died. Overall, I think if they’re scum together, it all was coordinated in scumchat.
Voting Record
He doesn’t vote during RVS. He’s here, and doing things, but doesn’t vote. This isn’t always a tell, but it’s worth noting I feel, especially with how opinionated Last typically is. The first time he actually voted for scum (DK) was in 1793, but there’s no real progression showing me that it’s suspicion that came on naturally, and it’s not really substantiated.There’s also a bit just before we lynch DK (around 4218ish) where he keeps voting DK, then jumps to a townie (and fulcrum). and then back to dk. I believe this was pushing away from dk. I believe that fulcrum wasn’t really under any pressure right then, so those votes were probably safe. I believe it might also be noteable that in 3507, he votes Proph accidently, when he meant to vote Rhand (3508).
Late Mindreaver Vote
546, 610,611, 630: Votes Mindreaver for calling saying last’s entrance was ‘townier than it’s been in a while’ or something of that nature and Last kinda latches onto that. I believe it’s noteable that Mind hasn’t had that opinion for about 500 posts, so this vote is really weak on a townie. I also noted in my VCA post that this vote is partially a sheep on Tom.
Post from Yesterday
For reference: 5625
Axelrod(7) - Vaimes, Killjoy, Lastwhisper, ]Keldeo, vezokpiraka, Rhand, fulcrum
KittyCupCake(7) -DK, Gemma, Nacho, Tom, Lastwhisper, Vezok, Axelrod
No Lynch(5) -Vaimes, Silvercrys, KittyCupCake, Lastwhisper, Axelrod
KittyCupCake(8) - DK, Killjoy, Tom, Asta, Asta, Vezok, Lastwhisper, Keldeo
Rhand (10) – Vezok, Silvercrys, Prophylaxis, Asta, Asta, Killjoy, Axelrod, Keldeo, lastwhisper, Vaimes
KittyCupCake(5) - Keldeo, Silvercrys, Vaimes, lastwhisper, Killjoy
Keldeo (7) - Asta, DK, Vezok, Axelrod, KittyCupCake, fulcrum, lastwhisper
So, most of these still make a lot of sense in scum!Last world. The one that really doesn’t anymore is this last Keldeo one. Most of the others though, he’s the only non-town in the 5+ cluster. This is still relevent as scum usually reside in these clusters. It’s also of note that with the exception of the Rhand wagon, they’re all on town. And for the Rhand wagon, there’s guaranteed to be a scum there because the other three were on Axelrod at the time, and the two nonvoters were town.
Summary
A lot of my suspicion here is due to his positioning, in general. He spends most of the time pushing/voting town, His pushes on town don’t feel genuine to me as with Mindreaver. It took him almost 1800 posts to actually vote for a scum, and more than 3000 to vote for a scum he was pushing to any real degree.He fence sits two of his scumbuddies for most of the game, with the third having somewhat decent handing, but then IIRC she also had some weird positions on her buddies as well I think, so I’d want to say that was planned.
Maybe he’s just been wrong for most of the game, but I feel like all these things added together adds up to scum.
Also VAIMES