I understand where Axelrod is coming from with his vote on Kitty, but the rumors of him killing RVS with that vote is greatly exaggerated and don't like how that's being leveraged to criticize Gemma for a late RVS vote.
I don't understand why someone softs that they have a "scummy" role - like, is it pro-scum (like PGO) where you need to out it to mitigate damage or is it just going to be a *****ty claim when you're at L-2? If it's the former, why not claim? If it's the latter, why hint at something like that at all instead of trying to draw a kill first? I don't think the half claim is doing anyone good here and since scum already knows you're nothing to be afraid of, why not full claim and give the town a little something more to work with?
IMO I think that KCC being transparent about it is very towny, as there was no need for it, and it puts all eyes on her for no reason, and its the opposite of what wolves want to do
Hey Asta, what's your mafia experience and does your homesite normally place random votes at the beginning of the game?
Why ask this question?
Because the answer might be enlightening? I can explain after she(?) answers, though I expect nothing will really come of it directly.
Seemed like you were weighing on asking a question for the sake of asking questions. Why didn't you offer an opinion on the claim after Axelrod pointed it out?
I understand where Axelrod is coming from with his vote on Kitty, but the rumors of him killing RVS with that vote is greatly exaggerated and don't like how that's being leveraged to criticize Gemma for a late RVS vote.
I don't understand why someone softs that they have a "scummy" role - like, is it pro-scum (like PGO) where you need to out it to mitigate damage or is it just going to be a *****ty claim when you're at L-2? If it's the former, why not claim? If it's the latter, why hint at something like that at all instead of trying to draw a kill first? I don't think the half claim is doing anyone good here and since scum already knows you're nothing to be afraid of, why not full claim and give the town a little something more to work with?
also I think this was a lot of words and speculation/hedging that just wasn't needed, and it feels +wolfy
I understand where Axelrod is coming from with his vote on Kitty, but the rumors of him killing RVS with that vote is greatly exaggerated and don't like how that's being leveraged to criticize Gemma for a late RVS vote.
You're like, talking specifically about me in a way that makes it seem like I'm a mysterious, unknowable force or something.
I was exaggerating Axelrod's vote, yes, but I wasn't really criticizing Gemma, so...?
IMO I think that KCC being transparent about it is very towny, as there was no need for it, and it puts all eyes on her for no reason, and its the opposite of what wolves want to do
I disagree and think that the "no reason for it" line in particular is dangerous. The reason scum claim things along these lines is to trade some early heat to leave themselves wiggling room down the road. Now, not necessarily what I think is happening here, but.
Seemed like you were weighing on asking a question for the sake of asking questions. Why didn't you offer an opinion on the claim after Axelrod pointed it out?
I wasn't talking about KCC's claim, Asta is a different player? I don't think I've said anything about KCC yet, actually...
I don’t care about the role soft. I think it’s better to acknowledge it and move on. We can spin our wheels all day about whether it’s scum wanting a buffer or town pouring wine.
also I think this was a lot of words and speculation/hedging that just wasn't needed, and it feels +wolfy
There were indeed a lot of words, but there wasn't speculation or hedging of any kind.
I thought the way silvercry interacted with Axelrod was scummy - he complimented Axelrod's push and said it made him feel good about Axelrod, but didn't comment on the push Axelrod made. I dislike that because it's easy as hell to pat someone on the back and tell them they're doing a good job while simultaneously ignoring everything they're saying. KittyCupcake should claim. I don't believe the claim is alignment indicative.
Oh okay, I see. You were talking about two different things in the post where you quoted my response about Asta's post.
I didn't talk about KCC's claim when Axel said something about it because I don't think we can really read into it. It seemed like a thing to notice, so I quoted it after she posted it (I go back to my own iso when rereading sometimes) but I agree, it isn't really AI.
Why do you think she should claim if you don't think the claim makes her wolfy?
Also I'm a bit miffed that you think I was patting Axelrod on the back for pushing KCC -- I never actually said anything about the push he made, just said him breaking RVS makes me feel good about him. The actual act of breaking RVS with a push usually comes from town trying to do things, a lot of wolves here would coast on RVS as long as possible.
Seemed like you were weighing on asking a question for the sake of asking questions. Why didn't you offer an opinion on the claim after Axelrod pointed it out?
I wasn't talking about KCC's claim, Asta is a different player? I don't think I've said anything about KCC yet, actually...
You haven't. Why not?
Again, Axelrod made a push that you liked. You recognized that it was the first significant piece of content in the game.
And instead of weighing in on it, you said Axelrod looked fine from it and went off and did some other stuff that seemed meaningless and meandering.
Unless I’m missing something, this is the only post that even mentions Gemma potentially making a late RVS vote.
Thats a bit of a leap to make about one post.
You said:
“but the rumors of [Axel] killing RVS with that vote is greatly exaggerated and don't like how that's being leveraged to criticize Gemma for a late RVS vote”
but that never happened. Nothing was exaggerated, nobody was criticized. You make it sound like several people were attacking Gemma, and all Silver did was ask a question.
Gemma made a bunch of posts, then voted, I wanted to know if she was making a random vote or a serious one
Having extremely mixed feelings about Nacho's push, on the one hand he started off trying to shade me in the most indirect way I've ever seen and hasn't voted me even though he's representing quite a bit of hostility + conviction
on the other he's going awfully hard for page 2 if he's a wolf trying to mislunch me
One more thing before I leave: Nacho taking KCC’s role soft as gospel and freaking out over it reads as TMI. He knows she’s town, and therefore is assuming she’s telling the truth. Even though she could totally be bluffing for reactions or something.
I like silver so far. I like Vaimes so far even if he should feel sort of silly right now.
I would like to see Kitty explain why she softclaimed the way she did, and, if she feels her claim is going to cause trouble down the road, then let us deal with it now as opposed to later. Saying that her claim is super scummy doesn't do anything for anyone.
I wasn't talking about KCC's claim, Asta is a different player? I don't think I've said anything about KCC yet, actually...
You haven't. Why not?
Again, Axelrod made a push that you liked. You recognized that it was the first significant piece of content in the game.
And instead of weighing in on it, you said Axelrod looked fine from it and went off and did some other stuff that seemed meaningless and meandering.
Yea, it was the first piece of significant content, but I don't actually know if I agree with the push and I wasn't saying the push itself is "good" just commenting on the fact that he made a push on page 1 rather than RVSing. It makes me feel like he's interested in pushing the game somewhere where a wolf might be comfortable coasting in RVS.
I consider the question I asked Asta to be important. If you can't read the post I quoted and my question and think of any reasons I might have asked it you'll have to wait.
I do not believe you were trying to determine whether "I know a bunch of mean people named Alex so I'm voting Axel" was a serious vote or not.
That was... not how I read those posts at all. She tried to naked vote him, messed up his name, then fixed it and made a joke about knowing mean people named Alex (as if to explain why she misspelled his name).
I don't like that #55 was LW's only contribution to the skirmish? discussion? and that it was essentially a potshot.
I liked Vaimes's reaction to me because it felt like he legitimately caught something - the "I'm going to bed! Oh! And one more thing!" and the way his conviction seemed to ramp up the more he dwelled on it in general.
Silvercry's responses made sense to me for the most part, but the pieces that I thought were likelier town than not were 1) getting offended at me implying that he was sucking up to Axelrod, and 2) the nuanced read he gave on me. Would have been easy for him to flat OMGUS me with Vaimes support as scum but it felt like he tried to genuinely sort me out.
Nacho you're a whirlwind and a delight as always. Am finding it hard to understand your stance on KCC, could you explain the reasoning there from the top? How does it benefit town for her to claim iyo?
My vote on Axelrod wasn't rvs. Didn't really think of that as him breaking out of rvs I guess. Just thought his vote / attitude toward it kinda sucked.
I'd like for KCC to attempt at explaining why she claimed the way she did and why her doing so is better than outright claiming. I'll write out my full thoughts once she's done that.
I mean I could've, but its still page two, so
Sorry to fail your expectations
didn't care much for the first paragraph, the thoughts don't push me in either direction
Breadcrumbs are meh, either alignment can do it, she didn't have to mention it, but she did, and I like the transparency
I'd like for KCC to attempt at explaining why she claimed the way she did and why her doing so is better than outright claiming. I'll write out my full thoughts once she's done that.
I think her doing that is a super terrible idea that gives mafia more info to read into and tells us next to nothing about her alignment in any way that I can imagine.
I feel like there’s a lot to unpack within these last ~20 posts, but it’s midnight and I need to be up early.
I’m reading Nacho’s posts and I feel like I’m watching a roomba short-circuit. So far I don’t think he’s town.
Oh also I’ll be the first to say it: there’s totally a neutral in the game.
Is this a claim?
unvote
I like Silver.
Nacho feels like a copy of myself when I’m writing things that are good observations and then people scumread me for that.
Vaimes feels a bit less playful than usual.
I got Summer hatin on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun
Got Spring hatin on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin on me cuz I'm colder than yall
And I will never
I will never
I will never Fall
hey Thomas sloger
Tell me where have you been
They've been asking they've been searching they've been wondering why
I been in and out the bank *****
While all you silly dudes been on the same *****
I flush em, and watch em go down the drain quick
Two words you never hear: "Tom Quit!"
Cuz Tom wins, and they lose
I call em April babies, cuz they're fools
vote slothful -too lazy to come up with a reason right now though
Also, heads up for whenever I claim, my role is super scummy.
Vote: KCC
Might as well get it over with.
I spy with my little eye
A girlie I can get 'cause she don't get too many likes
A curly-headed cutie I can turn into my wife
Wait, that means foreverever, hold up, never mind
@Wisp: As of post 28 where you asked me, no, not really. I usually don't spend too much time looking at RVS posts unless there's something that REALLY stands out, and nothing did. I'm glad that Gemma didn't keep just posting gifs because that would have gotten a bit annoying. Mostly there's some stuff I want to inquire about.
Also that's LoZ Oracle of Seasons. Feel free to keep your townlean, though. I cheated to figure it out. (Right click->Search Google for this image)
@Mind: Wisp, appearing townie? Surely you jest.
Aside: What do you think of Nacho?
@Asta: I also want to know what your mafia experience is, please and thank you.
@Nacho: Why are you asking silver why he asking Asta for his/her experience? Is there an obvious scum motive I'm missing?
Why should Vaimes feel silly?
Also can you talk to me about 83? Walk me through it a bit.
@Gemma: How well can you read last in general? You guys play together on a different forum, IIRC, yes?
Also, I'd like you to know that I was very confused by your first post to fulcrum until I realized the ****** pic was in your sig, and was not directed at her as well.
@tom:You appear to be voting Axel because you didn't like his entrance. Is that true? If so, what entrance does town!Axel make?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
pretend this spoiler has all of sloths posts where he *didnt* leave the thread. i dont feel like quoting.
Just to get to see an MC who breathes so freely
Ease over these beats and be so breezy
Turn on these beats, MC's don't see me
Believe me, BET and MTV
Are gonna grieve when we leave, dawg, fo' sheezy
Can't leave rap alone, the game needs me
@Gemma: How well can you read last in general? You guys play together on a different forum, IIRC, yes?
Also, I'd like you to know that I was very confused by your first post to fulcrum until I realized the ****** pic was in your sig, and was not directed at her as well.
I mean, I'm not sure why that would be a confusing thing for me to post to fonti. We share the love of vaginas and also the same two particular vaginas, so... Man, you walked right into that one you can't even blame me.
Last and I have played together once before, here on MTGS.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I don't understand why someone softs that they have a "scummy" role - like, is it pro-scum (like PGO) where you need to out it to mitigate damage or is it just going to be a *****ty claim when you're at L-2? If it's the former, why not claim? If it's the latter, why hint at something like that at all instead of trying to draw a kill first? I don't think the half claim is doing anyone good here and since scum already knows you're nothing to be afraid of, why not full claim and give the town a little something more to work with?
Seemed like you were weighing on asking a question for the sake of asking questions. Why didn't you offer an opinion on the claim after Axelrod pointed it out?
I was exaggerating Axelrod's vote, yes, but I wasn't really criticizing Gemma, so...?
I disagree and think that the "no reason for it" line in particular is dangerous. The reason scum claim things along these lines is to trade some early heat to leave themselves wiggling room down the road. Now, not necessarily what I think is happening here, but.
There were indeed a lot of words, but there wasn't speculation or hedging of any kind.
I thought the way silvercry interacted with Axelrod was scummy - he complimented Axelrod's push and said it made him feel good about Axelrod, but didn't comment on the push Axelrod made. I dislike that because it's easy as hell to pat someone on the back and tell them they're doing a good job while simultaneously ignoring everything they're saying. KittyCupcake should claim. I don't believe the claim is alignment indicative.
Oh okay, I see. You were talking about two different things in the post where you quoted my response about Asta's post.
I didn't talk about KCC's claim when Axel said something about it because I don't think we can really read into it. It seemed like a thing to notice, so I quoted it after she posted it (I go back to my own iso when rereading sometimes) but I agree, it isn't really AI.
Why do you think she should claim if you don't think the claim makes her wolfy?
That's it.
Silvercry says that Axelrod killed RVS and then an RVS vote on page 1 is late. Thus, he exaggerated Axelrod's push to criticize Gemma.
I’m reading Nacho’s posts and I feel like I’m watching a roomba short-circuit. So far I don’t think he’s town.
Oh also I’ll be the first to say it: there’s totally a neutral in the game.
You haven't. Why not?
Again, Axelrod made a push that you liked. You recognized that it was the first significant piece of content in the game.
And instead of weighing in on it, you said Axelrod looked fine from it and went off and did some other stuff that seemed meaningless and meandering.
You said:
“but the rumors of [Axel] killing RVS with that vote is greatly exaggerated and don't like how that's being leveraged to criticize Gemma for a late RVS vote”
but that never happened. Nothing was exaggerated, nobody was criticized. You make it sound like several people were attacking Gemma, and all Silver did was ask a question.
Having extremely mixed feelings about Nacho's push, on the one hand he started off trying to shade me in the most indirect way I've ever seen and hasn't voted me even though he's representing quite a bit of hostility + conviction
on the other he's going awfully hard for page 2 if he's a wolf trying to mislunch me
chill please, this day phase is 3 weeks long
I do not believe you were trying to determine whether "I know a bunch of mean people named Alex so I'm voting Axel" was a serious vote or not.
I would like to see Kitty explain why she softclaimed the way she did, and, if she feels her claim is going to cause trouble down the road, then let us deal with it now as opposed to later. Saying that her claim is super scummy doesn't do anything for anyone.
I consider the question I asked Asta to be important. If you can't read the post I quoted and my question and think of any reasons I might have asked it you'll have to wait.
That was... not how I read those posts at all. She tried to naked vote him, messed up his name, then fixed it and made a joke about knowing mean people named Alex (as if to explain why she misspelled his name).
I don't like that #55 was LW's only contribution to the skirmish? discussion? and that it was essentially a potshot.
I liked Vaimes's reaction to me because it felt like he legitimately caught something - the "I'm going to bed! Oh! And one more thing!" and the way his conviction seemed to ramp up the more he dwelled on it in general.
Silvercry's responses made sense to me for the most part, but the pieces that I thought were likelier town than not were 1) getting offended at me implying that he was sucking up to Axelrod, and 2) the nuanced read he gave on me. Would have been easy for him to flat OMGUS me with Vaimes support as scum but it felt like he tried to genuinely sort me out.
My vote on Axelrod wasn't rvs. Didn't really think of that as him breaking out of rvs I guess. Just thought his vote / attitude toward it kinda sucked.
Please god no.
I made one awful post - you could have voted it (not like you're doing anything worthwhile at the moment), but you didn't.
I then posted a response to your criticism - could have talked about that or talked about that, but you didn't.
Never said you had to lock in a read, but my expectation was that you'd give a bit more effort if you were earnestly trying to sort me.
What's that expectation based on?
Sorry to fail your expectations
didn't care much for the first paragraph, the thoughts don't push me in either direction
Breadcrumbs are meh, either alignment can do it, she didn't have to mention it, but she did, and I like the transparency
Is this a claim?
unvote
I like Silver.
Nacho feels like a copy of myself when I’m writing things that are good observations and then people scumread me for that.
Vaimes feels a bit less playful than usual.
While all you silly dudes been on the same *****
I flush em, and watch em go down the drain quick
Two words you never hear: "Tom Quit!"
Cuz Tom wins, and they lose
I call em April babies, cuz they're fools
A girlie I can get 'cause she don't get too many likes
A curly-headed cutie I can turn into my wife
Wait, that means foreverever, hold up, never mind
vote axel
Also that's LoZ Oracle of Seasons. Feel free to keep your townlean, though. I cheated to figure it out. (Right click->Search Google for this image)
@Mind: Wisp, appearing townie? Surely you jest.
Aside: What do you think of Nacho?
@Asta: I also want to know what your mafia experience is, please and thank you.
@Nacho: Why are you asking silver why he asking Asta for his/her experience? Is there an obvious scum motive I'm missing?
Why should Vaimes feel silly?
Also can you talk to me about 83? Walk me through it a bit.
@Gemma: How well can you read last in general? You guys play together on a different forum, IIRC, yes?
Also, I'd like you to know that I was very confused by your first post to fulcrum until I realized the ****** pic was in your sig, and was not directed at her as well.
@tom:You appear to be voting Axel because you didn't like his entrance. Is that true? If so, what entrance does town!Axel make?
I feel like you tried to mash 10 different ideas into that sentence
Ease over these beats and be so breezy
Turn on these beats, MC's don't see me
Believe me, BET and MTV
Are gonna grieve when we leave, dawg, fo' sheezy
Can't leave rap alone, the game needs me
sloth town
@Axel: was that a serious vote?
Last and I have played together once before, here on MTGS.