I think your push on KJ is you trying to destroy his town cred because all the town reads he gathered quickly make him hard to mislynch. And yes, I did feel frustration in your tone. Which is a normal feeling for scum to have when a possible mislynch slips away.
this is a strange thought because i dont think theres many worlds where a scum kcc thinks she can get kj lynched over herself? Like, i assume she can read the room a little. And her kj push looking like trying to leave a legacy (albeit one i disagree with) is one of the things softening me on her a little
Tubba showed awareness of his d1 ~uselessness and didnt really take any steps to change that.
Hes got a bit of background thinking but im not seeing any behind the scenes leaps, its more like recall of what he already sorta said?
[Redacted part about how hes reacting to me]
Im not locked or anything, but if i had to give a tubba read right now itd be scum.
Im sort of building kcc teams, rhand teams, and shadow teams. I dont see many worlds where all 3 are town (tubba/cantrip *i guess*) and theres not much chance of overlap.
Trichotomy maybe?
I dont have a huge preference for lynch rn other than "not me, not kj"
yes, those 3 posts. And yes, I felt the need to explain them more because I might get lynched. How does that make me scum?
I think your push on KJ is you trying to destroy his town cred because all the town reads he gathered quickly make him hard to mislynch. And yes, I did feel frustration in your tone. Which is a normal feeling for scum to have when a possible mislynch slips away.
And no, to this non-native speaker it wasn’t obvious at all what tubba meant. Why would I not care about that as scum anyhow?
KCC is trying to use a bunch of tells that are NAI at best to push my lynch here.
Please burn her with fire if I get lynched.
I don’t like this, I don’t jive with it, and it doesn’t make sense to me. Why would scumKCC keep trying to chip away at KJ’s town cred? It’s not likely to lead anywhere, and just draws heat. The only play that’s there is to stubbornly park on KJ and hope her partner can lead town to water.
She’s trying to get me lynched while undermining KJ’s credibility.
That is the play there. In this game NK’ing the universal townread isn’t an option. The only plays are getting rid of his credibility or get on his good side. She wasn’t on the good side so went for the credibility.
She’s trying to get me lynched while undermining KJ’s credibility.
That is the play there. In this game NK’ing the universal townread isn’t an option. The only plays are getting rid of his credibility or get on his good side. She wasn’t on the good side so went for the credibility.
Meh, that’s wifom though. Just seems like a low value, low percentage line
VOTE COUNT 1.5 "This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It's us. Only us." KCC (2): Rhand, tom
Rhand (1): KCC
Cantrip (1): Shadow
Shadow (1): Cantrip
With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch!
Deadline is 11:59PM Eastern on Friday, 15 Nov. < That's tomorrow, about 28.5 hours from now.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Maybe, I find it weird that he asked me about # of scum between KCC and Rhand, flipped flopped between them and is now back on Cantrip, without really getting into the why. Reads should be somewhat fluid, but I felt like he had better reasons for being on Rhand or KCC than Cantrip.
Maybe, I find it weird that he asked me about # of scum between KCC and Rhand, flipped flopped between them and is now back on Cantrip, without really getting into the why. Reads should be somewhat fluid, but I felt like he had better reasons for being on Rhand or KCC than Cantrip.
@Shadow
That’s a little weird right?
i mean you answered. I found it interesting you mentioned w/w but not v/v.
And yeah the progression of "townreads on everyone but cantrip">"reasons to scumread rhand (and sorta kcc)">"nah its cantrip" is... while technically a logical progression it doesnt feel natural really.
As cantrip brought up theres not much active attempt to solve cantrip. Even if its just forcing me to put out a cantrip read (which now that im thinking about it sounds like exactly what townshadow ought to be doing with that set of premises...)
So shadow with 5 townreads, votes other
Sees reasons not to townread kcc
Pushes rhand
Sees reasons kcc is NOT scum
Sees reasons rhand is not to push rhand
Back to cantrip
With no real sign of solving cantrip any way other than *pressure* which... he certainly undermines with the POEness of the push he still doesnt have a read that i can see. Hasnt asked others (most notably me*)
im not just blowing smoke up my own ass saying i should be listened to. I literally gave a scumread on cantrip that made him have to change the way he plays:
Ok so my original idea (I think I alluded to this and said I'd share it along with my anak townread, which… ~soon) was to just skip reading shadow and cantrip since I wouldn't have much confidence in any read I got there and… just look at their interactions unbiased by any other read.
I know they've got a version of what me and and shadow had going on where they've scummed together and beaten each other and have a sort of nuanced/whatever relationship that should be a rich source of delicious info nuggets.
But I didn't manage to keep unbiased and i think cantrip is scum.
He's… sort of doing the Carson Daly thing where he doesn't really have a personality of his own so he sort of takes on characteristics of whoever he's talking to. Like, his guest is a rapper so Carson is just a little hood. Proper Englishman on there and Carson gets posh.
In cantrips case, it's just a subtle difference. But cantrip, unlike Carson Daly, does have a personality. A strong one even. So I'm thinking it's like a playing to your audience/pockety type thing.
Shadow looks fearful/curious back at him, so if I want to pretend I'm still doing the thing I'm gonna call them w/v for now.
Overall profile im seeing is someone more... existing in the game than solving a puzzle. Kinda feels like an NPC with no drive of his own
Think im happy with shadow vote. Yall should join me
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Tom: I did ask for your thoughts on Cantrip, and you said “nah”, and I’ve long since moved past trying to get you to do things in anything but your own time.
I can’t explain Cantrip, and maybe I’m just wrong, but he doesn’t feel right, he hasn’t felt right the whole game. His first couple posts (before I voted him) weren’t noteworthy, but after my initial vote on him I just couldn’t get a bead on him. And then the bravado of telling me to vote for him was just bad.
I’m no where near confident that it’s an accurate read, but I do dislike how confident that he seems to be about me. Especially after floating a “Shadow is probably town” read with zero substantiation and then completely flipping on it, while nothing about anything I said changed, and with the line “this is not town!shadow”, which just in a vacuum is a dumb line; no one’s confidence level should ever be that high in this scenario, where literally less than 20 posts earlier I was “probably town”.
@Tom: I did ask for your thoughts on Cantrip, and you said “nah”, and I’ve long since moved past trying to get you to do things in anything but your own time.
I can’t explain Cantrip, and maybe I’m just wrong, but he doesn’t feel right, he hasn’t felt right the whole game. His first couple posts (before I voted him) weren’t noteworthy, but after my initial vote on him I just couldn’t get a bead on him. And then the bravado of telling me to vote for him was just bad.
I’m no where near confident that it’s an accurate read, but I do dislike how confident that he seems to be about me. Especially after floating a “Shadow is probably town” read with zero substantiation and then completely flipping on it, while nothing about anything I said changed, and with the line “this is not town!shadow”, which just in a vacuum is a dumb line; no one’s confidence level should ever be that high in this scenario, where literally less than 20 posts earlier I was “probably town”.
so is it poe or trying to justify gut? Theyre not the same thing
I can’t explain Cantrip, and maybe I’m just wrong, but he doesn’t feel right, he hasn’t felt right the whole game. His first couple posts (before I voted him) weren’t noteworthy, but after my initial vote on him I just couldn’t get a bead on him. And then the bravado of telling me to vote for him was just bad.
I’m no where near confident that it’s an accurate read, but I do dislike how confident that he seems to be about me. Especially after floating a “Shadow is probably town” read with zero substantiation and then completely flipping on it, while nothing about anything I said changed, and with the line “this is not town!shadow”, which just in a vacuum is a dumb line; no one’s confidence level should ever be that high in this scenario, where literally less than 20 posts earlier I was “probably town”.
I had you as a town lean from the way you muddied the Watcher waters, your calling Rhand out on being pedantic on the post snipping (that and his voicing of your normal early game voting/not voting + your disagreement is what made me think you and Rhand probably unaligned), and I thought it was pretty ballsy of you to scum read me by default. I think scum!you likes to have a little more meat behind your fake reads.
But town!you solves your scum reads. Not always directly, and not always immediately, but I'm not buying you having me as public enemy #1 and being content to just watch me. The longer the Day went on without you pursuing some form of inquiry, the weirder it felt. As for flipping on you "while nothing you said changed": I said you were more likely town than scum in 150. After that you hopped on Rhand, hopped back off Rhand almost immediately with meh reasoning, did a song and dance about "why can't the scum just tell me who they are??", and then voted me without any attempt at solving. My confidence is as high as it ever is without some sort of investigative result: optimistically sure. I could be wrong (I frequently am), but the way you're treating me feels like you're unwilling to be specific or call me out on anything in particular so that you can maintain a generic scum read on me.
KJ, what specifically changed Rhand from a scum read in 175 to a town read in 217?
I reread him since I interpreted that one post all wrong, and with all the town reads he has, he should be very enthusiastically be lynching me or Cantrip rather than just hanging on the sidelines.
Maybe, I find it weird that he asked me about # of scum between KCC and Rhand, flipped flopped between them and is now back on Cantrip, without really getting into the why. Reads should be somewhat fluid, but I felt like he had better reasons for being on Rhand or KCC than Cantrip.
@Shadow
That’s a little weird right?
i mean you answered. I found it interesting you mentioned w/w but not v/v.
And yeah the progression of "townreads on everyone but cantrip">"reasons to scumread rhand (and sorta kcc)">"nah its cantrip" is... while technically a logical progression it doesnt feel natural really.
As cantrip brought up theres not much active attempt to solve cantrip. Even if its just forcing me to put out a cantrip read (which now that im thinking about it sounds like exactly what townshadow ought to be doing with that set of premises...)
The question posited to me was the number of scum in KCC/Rhand. I don’t think it’s that interesting that I answered the question as it was framed. Is it really that interesting, or a convenient way to kick more mud around?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I dislike that you were getting early townreads for basically no reason
Pretty sure.
In full context shes saying that you should have been suspicious of that which, like her defense, is reasonable but not convincing. So its a regardless of alignment thing imo
But if shes scum the "for basically no reason" speaks volumes
That’s probably scum frustration for losing a possible mislynch.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Tom: it started as PoE and then settled in my gut. It’s definitely more gut that I can’t justify at this point.
Regarding Rhand self meta, he specifically had a moment of self realization about his play and how he would address it going forward, which is a weird line to take if he’s scum. It’s not impossible that he faked it, but it’s not an angle I think makes a whole lot of sense as scum.
@Cantrip: frankly I don’t know how I’d sort you except by feeling on day one. Town!me solves scum reads as I can, but you’re a special read.
Oh oh, I was thinking about this and just remembered. WRT Cantrip, every time I’ve floated negative feelings about him in the past...year or so, he’s come at me with the “what happened to your ability to read me” argument. Even if it was a brief moment of doubt from me. He hasn’t done that here and that is a small contributing factor to my thoughts on him.
@Rhand: Secret Agent Mafia. Though I think micros exist on a different level, and I was mislynched in a micro about 2 years ago as well.
@Cantrip: frankly I don’t know how I’d sort you except by feeling on day one. Town!me solves scum reads as I can, but you’re a special read.
Fair enough. (And yay, I'm "special". )
Quote from Shadow »
Oh oh, I was thinking about this and just remembered. WRT Cantrip, every time I’ve floated negative feelings about him in the past...year or so, he’s come at me with the “what happened to your ability to read me” argument. Even if it was a brief moment of doubt from me. He hasn’t done that here and that is a small contributing factor to my thoughts on him.
For a while I had you on a pretty high pedestal (ok, still do in many regards), but you have been wrong on me, so that particular aspect is losing its oomph.
Quote from Shadow »
Shadow
Tom/KJ
Rhand/KCC
Tubba
Cantrip
Talk to me about why Tubba is where he is. I feel like you had that early town ping on him and then you really haven't weighed in on him much (questions, yes, but no reads). Now he's your second strongest scum read because?
Also, lol, swap you and me and that's pretty close to my list. KCC is a slash with Tubba, probably.
~15 hours until deadline.
Quote from Unofficial VC »
Rhand (1): KCC
Cantrip (1): Shadow
Shadow (2): Cantrip, tom
Tubba (1): Rhand
Hmm.
Rhand, You don't think Shadow/Tubba is possible? Because of the two, I definitely see Shadow as the bigger threat.
KCC You're gonna need to say more than "makes no sense, not interested"
Obviously. There's a lot I want to go back to, but I can start there
If I say Rhand is town for a moment, then what is scumShadow doing? It's super easy to mislynch one of us, but he doesn't push me at all, he doesn't shade Rhand when I gave him opportunities. He does vote Rhand, but backs off when it gains momentum? I just can't see it
Now, if I'm right on Rhand, after reading back through it again, I could maybe see the vote-unvote as distancing/controlling the wagon momentum, but that vote still feels dangerous. Which, I guess it's not impossible, but it entirely hinges on Rhand being scum in the first place, so Rhand is the much better lynch Today
If I say Rhand is town for a moment, then what is scumShadow doing? It's super easy to mislynch one of us, but he doesn't push me at all, he doesn't shade Rhand when I gave him opportunities. He does vote Rhand, but backs off when it gains momentum? I just can't see it
Ok, fair, but I've got you as a possible Shadow buddy, and in that world, he's not going to push you if he doesn't have to, and he's not necessarily going to just join you on a mislunch.
The other Shadow world I'm contemplating is him/Tubba. Do you think that's possible or unlikely? What are your thoughts on Tubba in general?
Rhand, why do you think Shadow is town? Do you think I'm off-base in saying that town!Shadow would be trying to figure me out? What have you seen from him that you feel is outside his scum range?
Ok, fair, but I've got you as a possible Shadow buddy, and in that world, he's not going to push you if he doesn't have to, and he's not necessarily going to just join you on a mislunch.
If you think it's Shadow/me, I think it makes more sense to vote me there, likewise for Rhand in a Rhand/Shadow read. And if you think me/Rhand is t/t, I don't think Shadow works at all
The other Shadow world I'm contemplating is him/Tubba. Do you think that's possible or unlikely? What are your thoughts on Tubba in general?
I don't see Shadow/Tubba as likely. Tubba isn't a wide town read, so I don't understand Shadow not taking the easy mislynches available and risking the spotlight wandering over there
As for just Tubba, I wouldn't be surprised if he's scum, but passive townie seems just as likely. I don't like it as a D1 lynch in this game
All over the place. I said before that it would be unlikely for him to interact with me the way he has as scum, because I think it’d be far easier to pocket me/steer me. He’s not wrong, he’s been a big factor in my Magia career. Another point to that is he has something like a 95% accuracy rate on reading me, so if he’s scum, calling me out for not “impressing him” seems like extra work when he could just bury me and say “whoops, he really needs to work on his town game etc.”
With that in mind I don’t like how he shaded me in an earlier post I quoted, and I wouldn’t put a gambit past him, especially if it left him with really clean hands. So, essentially a lot of things to think about and nothing I’m really confident about.
All over the place. I said before that it would be unlikely for him to interact with me the way he has as scum, because I think it’d be far easier to pocket me/steer me. He’s not wrong, he’s been a big factor in my Magia career. Another point to that is he has something like a 95% accuracy rate on reading me, so if he’s scum, calling me out for not “impressing him” seems like extra work when he could just bury me and say “whoops, he really needs to work on his town game etc.”
With that in mind I don’t like how he shaded me in an earlier post I quoted, and I wouldn’t put a gambit past him, especially if it left him with really clean hands. So, essentially a lot of things to think about and nothing I’m really confident about.
I didn't like that mud kicking comment if you were townlean on Tom, but it makes sense if this is where you are.
Going through Tubbas posts more, the way he handled me and rhand, I could see Rhand/Tubba, but nothing I can't see coming from a townie trying to work it out
Oh oh, I was thinking about this and just remembered. WRT Cantrip, every time I’ve floated negative feelings about him in the past...year or so, he’s come at me with the “what happened to your ability to read me” argument. Even if it was a brief moment of doubt from me. He hasn’t done that here and that is a small contributing factor to my thoughts on him.
For a while I had you on a pretty high pedestal (ok, still do in many regards), but you have been wrong on me, so that particular aspect is losing its oomph.
I guess that’s reasonable, still mildly surprised you didn’t bring it up. Also, I think I’ve been overall wrong much more rarely than I had a wrong tinfoil that I eventually dismissed. Like, have I actually been involved in mislynching you when I was town? (Legit question)
Quote from Cantrip »
Quote from Shadow »
Shadow
Tom/KJ
Rhand/KCC
Tubba
Cantrip
Talk to me about why Tubba is where he is. I feel like you had that early town ping on him and then you really haven't weighed in on him much (questions, yes, but no reads). Now he's your second strongest scum read because?
I think you over estimate the range of my list. I’m having a pretty terrible time with scum reads this game, so this list is mostly an ordered list from most townie to least. You’re at the bottom, and I still think you’re just a bit >rand scum. Tubba is about neutral, cause he’s doing things, but they are Tubba things and not really impactful things. I haven’t really disliked anything he’s done, but both Rhand and KCC have edged above him currently.[/quote]
Quote from Cantrip »
Also, lol, swap you and me and that's pretty close to my list. KCC is a slash with Tubba, probably.
What puts Rhand ahead of KCC, and do you think they can be town/town?
Quote from Cantrip »
Hmm.
Rhand, You don't think Shadow/Tubba is possible? Because of the two, I definitely see Shadow as the bigger threat.
Why...does me being a threat play into this at all? Especially in a game this small, lynch the people you think could be scum, not the ones you’re afraid of in LyLo.
Ok, but I'm still not getting any "figuring out" vibes from you. The only rationale or conclusion I've seen on me from you is "everyone else could be town". That feels so different from the feelings I usually get from you.
Is the bold in regards to all of Shadow's play, or just how he's approached you?
Maybe, I find it weird that he asked me about # of scum between KCC and Rhand, flipped flopped between them and is now back on Cantrip, without really getting into the why. Reads should be somewhat fluid, but I felt like he had better reasons for being on Rhand or KCC than Cantrip.
@Shadow
That’s a little weird right?
i mean you answered. I found it interesting you mentioned w/w but not v/v.
And yeah the progression of "townreads on everyone but cantrip">"reasons to scumread rhand (and sorta kcc)">"nah its cantrip" is... while technically a logical progression it doesnt feel natural really.
As cantrip brought up theres not much active attempt to solve cantrip. Even if its just forcing me to put out a cantrip read (which now that im thinking about it sounds like exactly what townshadow ought to be doing with that set of premises...)
The question posited to me was the number of scum in KCC/Rhand. I don’t think it’s that interesting that I answered the question as it was framed. Is it really that interesting, or a convenient way to kick more mud around?
what mud am i kicking?
"Zero" is an extremely valid answer...
Regarding Rhand self meta, he specifically had a moment of self realization about his play and how he would address it going forward, which is a weird line to take if he’s scum. It’s not impossible that he faked it, but it’s not an angle I think makes a whole lot of sense as scum.
still not seeing what he'd have to fake?
Like, i buy he realized <thing> just dont see how its relevant. What would be different realizing it while town vs realizing it while scum?
KCC You're gonna need to say more than "makes no sense, not interested"
Obviously. There's a lot I want to go back to, but I can start there
If I say Rhand is town for a moment, then what is scumShadow doing? It's super easy to mislynch one of us, but he doesn't push me at all, he doesn't shade Rhand when I gave him opportunities. He does vote Rhand, but backs off when it gains momentum? I just can't see it
Now, if I'm right on Rhand, after reading back through it again, I could maybe see the vote-unvote as distancing/controlling the wagon momentum, but that vote still feels dangerous. Which, I guess it's not impossible, but it entirely hinges on Rhand being scum in the first place, so Rhand is the much better lynch Today
shadow did push you...
He did shade rhand...
He has his push on cantrip because he townread everyone else but was more open to lynching both of you as you gained suspicion.
@Tom
I’ll concede that, but that wasn’t my feelings at the time. It just seemed convenient for you to be low key scum reading me without much substance and then sorta wipe your feet off on me on the way by.
shadow did push you...
He did shade rhand...
He has his push on cantrip because he townread everyone else but was more open to lynching both of you as you gained suspicion.
?
IDK, maybe? I can reread him.
There was a moment I felt like he might be setting up a jump on my wagon, but he didn't, and it never felt like pressure or fanning the wagon. WRT Rhand, I specifically asked Shadow about an Rhand post, that would have been a good opening if he was aiming to setup chain lynches, but he didn't do that either.
What do you think scumShadow was doing with the Rhand vote-unvote?
@Tom
I’ll concede that, but that wasn’t my feelings at the time. It just seemed convenient for you to be low key scum reading me without much substance and then sorta wipe your feet off on me on the way by.
i mean theres 3 options (0, 1, and 2), you only mentioned 2 of them.
Im still not sure how its shade that doesnt make me think anything about your alignment. It IS interesting if you were to flip scum and maybe if both of them were to flip town. Gor now its just a data point
I think shadow positioned himself such that he can vote anyone but me or KJ. Which to be fair, so have i lol.
But hes be mainly pushing one person and got more open to killing others towards middle of the day and focused back on his one towards the end.
Its not (neccesarily) scummy, but the only way that profile doesnt make sense as scum is if cantrip were his partner.
Like, you and rhand both work as partners. Certainly all the people he didnt push at all.
Ok, fair, but I've got you as a possible Shadow buddy, and in that world, he's not going to push you if he doesn't have to, and he's not necessarily going to just join you on a mislunch.
If you think it's Shadow/me, I think it makes more sense to vote me there, likewise for Rhand in a Rhand/Shadow read. And if you think me/Rhand is t/t, I don't think Shadow works at all
I'm not sure what to do with the suggestion that I vote you over Shadow. Shadow is my strongest read, and I can see you or Tubba being buddies with him, so I'd rather lunch Shadow and then have to figure out his buddy. Why do you feel Shadow doesn't work at all if you and Rhand are both town?
The other Shadow world I'm contemplating is him/Tubba. Do you think that's possible or unlikely? What are your thoughts on Tubba in general?
I don't see Shadow/Tubba as likely. Tubba isn't a wide town read, so I don't understand Shadow not taking the easy mislynches available and risking the spotlight wandering over there
Fair, although Shadow definitely knows how to game expectations.
Quote from KCC »
As for just Tubba, I wouldn't be surprised if he's scum, but passive townie seems just as likely. I don't like it as a D1 lynch in this game
Oh oh, I was thinking about this and just remembered. WRT Cantrip, every time I’ve floated negative feelings about him in the past...year or so, he’s come at me with the “what happened to your ability to read me” argument. Even if it was a brief moment of doubt from me. He hasn’t done that here and that is a small contributing factor to my thoughts on him.
For a while I had you on a pretty high pedestal (ok, still do in many regards), but you have been wrong on me, so that particular aspect is losing its oomph.
I guess that’s reasonable, still mildly surprised you didn’t bring it up. Also, I think I’ve been overall wrong much more rarely than I had a wrong tinfoil that I eventually dismissed. Like, have I actually been involved in mislynching you when I was town? (Legit question)
I don't think so? I haven't been mislunched in a while. Revolution we were both town, and before that was Avant Garde, which I think was before you started playing here. I'd have to do a deeper dive to see how often you've pushed/strongly suspected me when we were both town.
Quote from Shadow »
I think you over estimate the range of my list.
Fair.
Quote from Shadow »
I’m having a pretty terrible time with scum reads this game, so this list is mostly an ordered list from most townie to least. You’re at the bottom, and I still think you’re just a bit >rand scum. Tubba is about neutral, cause he’s doing things, but they are Tubba things and not really impactful things. I haven’t really disliked anything he’s done, but both Rhand and KCC have edged above him currently.
So you're saying that he's there more or less by default, not really because of anything he's done but because Rhand and KCC have done townie things?
Quote from Shadow »
Quote from Cantrip »
Also, lol, swap you and me and that's pretty close to my list. KCC is a slash with Tubba, probably.
What puts Rhand ahead of KCC, and do you think they can be town/town?
I sorta agree with you that Rhand's moment of introspection felt real, and I've generally liked his responses. The only thing that felt weird was his narrowing the PoE to me based on--in part--you being Tubba's "only" "scum" read, and I mostly feel like Rhand was sincere in explaining his confusion. He's pushing away from you, but not in a way that makes me feel like you're buddies. On KCC's side, the early reactiveness of her posts + the more recent KJ push followed by "oh you're not even my strongest suspect" process felt...off.
Quote from Shadow »
Quote from Cantrip »
Hmm.
Rhand, You don't think Shadow/Tubba is possible? Because of the two, I definitely see Shadow as the bigger threat.
Why...does me being a threat play into this at all? Especially in a game this small, lynch the people you think could be scum, not the ones you’re afraid of in LyLo.
Why are you downplaying lylo? If I end up in F3 (no thank you, but if), I'd much rather be faced with scum!Tubba than scum!you. And I *am* pushing to lunch a player I think is scum; I want Rhand to re-evaluate his read on you.
You never said: why did you *exasperated sigh* in 187? What was exasperating?
Ok, but I'm still not getting any "figuring out" vibes from you. The only rationale or conclusion I've seen on me from you is "everyone else could be town". That feels so different from the feelings I usually get from you.
Is the bold in regards to all of Shadow's play, or just how he's approached you?
Mostly how he's approached me. He had been asking questions, just not about the one player he claimed to think was most likely scum (or least likely town).
9>5
5<9
What about rhands self meta would he have to fake?
Hes got a bit of background thinking but im not seeing any behind the scenes leaps, its more like recall of what he already sorta said?
[Redacted part about how hes reacting to me]
Im not locked or anything, but if i had to give a tubba read right now itd be scum.
Im sort of building kcc teams, rhand teams, and shadow teams. I dont see many worlds where all 3 are town (tubba/cantrip *i guess*) and theres not much chance of overlap.
Trichotomy maybe?
I dont have a huge preference for lynch rn other than "not me, not kj"
I don’t like this, I don’t jive with it, and it doesn’t make sense to me. Why would scumKCC keep trying to chip away at KJ’s town cred? It’s not likely to lead anywhere, and just draws heat. The only play that’s there is to stubbornly park on KJ and hope her partner can lead town to water.
That is the play there. In this game NK’ing the universal townread isn’t an option. The only plays are getting rid of his credibility or get on his good side. She wasn’t on the good side so went for the credibility.
Meh, that’s wifom though. Just seems like a low value, low percentage line
"This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It's us. Only us."
KCC (2): Rhand, tom
Rhand (1): KCC
Cantrip (1): Shadow
Shadow (1): Cantrip
With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch!
Deadline is 11:59PM Eastern on Friday, 15 Nov. < That's tomorrow, about 28.5 hours from now.
I dont think i want to lynch cantrip
vote shadow
?
Do you?
@Shadow
That’s a little weird right?
And yeah the progression of "townreads on everyone but cantrip">"reasons to scumread rhand (and sorta kcc)">"nah its cantrip" is... while technically a logical progression it doesnt feel natural really.
As cantrip brought up theres not much active attempt to solve cantrip. Even if its just forcing me to put out a cantrip read (which now that im thinking about it sounds like exactly what townshadow ought to be doing with that set of premises...)
Sees reasons not to townread kcc
Pushes rhand
Sees reasons kcc is NOT scum
Sees reasons rhand is not to push rhand
Back to cantrip
With no real sign of solving cantrip any way other than *pressure* which... he certainly undermines with the POEness of the push he still doesnt have a read that i can see. Hasnt asked others (most notably me*)
Overall profile im seeing is someone more... existing in the game than solving a puzzle. Kinda feels like an NPC with no drive of his own
Think im happy with shadow vote. Yall should join me
[Cantrip Tubba Tom Shadow]
[Cantrip Shadow] maybe not a thing.
[tom Shadow] very unlikely a thing.
I kinda wanna follow tom onto shadow to see what happens, and maybe eliminate worlds.
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StaffI can’t explain Cantrip, and maybe I’m just wrong, but he doesn’t feel right, he hasn’t felt right the whole game. His first couple posts (before I voted him) weren’t noteworthy, but after my initial vote on him I just couldn’t get a bead on him. And then the bravado of telling me to vote for him was just bad.
I’m no where near confident that it’s an accurate read, but I do dislike how confident that he seems to be about me. Especially after floating a “Shadow is probably town” read with zero substantiation and then completely flipping on it, while nothing about anything I said changed, and with the line “this is not town!shadow”, which just in a vacuum is a dumb line; no one’s confidence level should ever be that high in this scenario, where literally less than 20 posts earlier I was “probably town”.
Why would flipping a read matter?
But town!you solves your scum reads. Not always directly, and not always immediately, but I'm not buying you having me as public enemy #1 and being content to just watch me. The longer the Day went on without you pursuing some form of inquiry, the weirder it felt. As for flipping on you "while nothing you said changed": I said you were more likely town than scum in 150. After that you hopped on Rhand, hopped back off Rhand almost immediately with meh reasoning, did a song and dance about "why can't the scum just tell me who they are??", and then voted me without any attempt at solving. My confidence is as high as it ever is without some sort of investigative result: optimistically sure. I could be wrong (I frequently am), but the way you're treating me feels like you're unwilling to be specific or call me out on anything in particular so that you can maintain a generic scum read on me.
KJ, what specifically changed Rhand from a scum read in 175 to a town read in 217?
vote tubba
I reread him since I interpreted that one post all wrong, and with all the town reads he has, he should be very enthusiastically be lynching me or Cantrip rather than just hanging on the sidelines.
The question posited to me was the number of scum in KCC/Rhand. I don’t think it’s that interesting that I answered the question as it was framed. Is it really that interesting, or a convenient way to kick more mud around?
Pretty sure I'm right on Rhand the way things blew up when he got traction, I want to look back at that more, but I think it makes Cantrip a maybe
Sorry, I always forget that. In general, I think scum are more likely to skim that without looking as closely, but yeah, it's NAI here.
Were you not concerned with getting NKed? The scum only have 5 to choose from, why is it only a lynch that makes you want to get reads out there?
KCC You're gonna need to say more than "makes no sense, not interested"
And this feels pure.
And the pure kinda outweighs the other.
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StaffRegarding Rhand self meta, he specifically had a moment of self realization about his play and how he would address it going forward, which is a weird line to take if he’s scum. It’s not impossible that he faked it, but it’s not an angle I think makes a whole lot of sense as scum.
@Cantrip: frankly I don’t know how I’d sort you except by feeling on day one. Town!me solves scum reads as I can, but you’re a special read.
Oh oh, I was thinking about this and just remembered. WRT Cantrip, every time I’ve floated negative feelings about him in the past...year or so, he’s come at me with the “what happened to your ability to read me” argument. Even if it was a brief moment of doubt from me. He hasn’t done that here and that is a small contributing factor to my thoughts on him.
@Rhand: Secret Agent Mafia. Though I think micros exist on a different level, and I was mislynched in a micro about 2 years ago as well.
Shadow
Tom/KJ
Rhand/KCC
Tubba
Cantrip
/barn
Fair enough. (And yay, I'm "special".
For a while I had you on a pretty high pedestal (ok, still do in many regards), but you have been wrong on me, so that particular aspect is losing its oomph.
Talk to me about why Tubba is where he is. I feel like you had that early town ping on him and then you really haven't weighed in on him much (questions, yes, but no reads). Now he's your second strongest scum read because?
Also, lol, swap you and me and that's pretty close to my list. KCC is a slash with Tubba, probably.
~15 hours until deadline.
Hmm.
Rhand, You don't think Shadow/Tubba is possible? Because of the two, I definitely see Shadow as the bigger threat.
Obviously. There's a lot I want to go back to, but I can start there
If I say Rhand is town for a moment, then what is scumShadow doing? It's super easy to mislynch one of us, but he doesn't push me at all, he doesn't shade Rhand when I gave him opportunities. He does vote Rhand, but backs off when it gains momentum? I just can't see it
Now, if I'm right on Rhand, after reading back through it again, I could maybe see the vote-unvote as distancing/controlling the wagon momentum, but that vote still feels dangerous. Which, I guess it's not impossible, but it entirely hinges on Rhand being scum in the first place, so Rhand is the much better lynch Today
I’m not afraid of being the NK when I have so much scrutiny. Mafia doesn’t NK possible mislynches.
@Cantrip: I don’t think Shadow is scum.
The other Shadow world I'm contemplating is him/Tubba. Do you think that's possible or unlikely? What are your thoughts on Tubba in general?
Rhand, why do you think Shadow is town? Do you think I'm off-base in saying that town!Shadow would be trying to figure me out? What have you seen from him that you feel is outside his scum range?
If you think it's Shadow/me, I think it makes more sense to vote me there, likewise for Rhand in a Rhand/Shadow read. And if you think me/Rhand is t/t, I don't think Shadow works at all
I don't see Shadow/Tubba as likely. Tubba isn't a wide town read, so I don't understand Shadow not taking the easy mislynches available and risking the spotlight wandering over there
As for just Tubba, I wouldn't be surprised if he's scum, but passive townie seems just as likely. I don't like it as a D1 lynch in this game
@Tubba What's your read on Tom?
With that in mind I don’t like how he shaded me in an earlier post I quoted, and I wouldn’t put a gambit past him, especially if it left him with really clean hands. So, essentially a lot of things to think about and nothing I’m really confident about.
Going through Tubbas posts more, the way he handled me and rhand, I could see Rhand/Tubba, but nothing I can't see coming from a townie trying to work it out
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StaffIs the bold in regards to all of Shadow's play, or just how he's approached you?
I definitely learned a lesson from not casing Vez in EuroWho is the other scum here? Because if it's Rhand, can we please just do that?
Why? -I wasn't voting him for tone or how his case was directed, were you?
Rhand is just trying to reframe the case as tonal, when the issue is the content of his posts
"Zero" is an extremely valid answer...
Like, i buy he realized <thing> just dont see how its relevant. What would be different realizing it while town vs realizing it while scum?
He did shade rhand...
He has his push on cantrip because he townread everyone else but was more open to lynching both of you as you gained suspicion.
?
I’ll concede that, but that wasn’t my feelings at the time. It just seemed convenient for you to be low key scum reading me without much substance and then sorta wipe your feet off on me on the way by.
There was a moment I felt like he might be setting up a jump on my wagon, but he didn't, and it never felt like pressure or fanning the wagon. WRT Rhand, I specifically asked Shadow about an Rhand post, that would have been a good opening if he was aiming to setup chain lynches, but he didn't do that either.
What do you think scumShadow was doing with the Rhand vote-unvote?
Im still not sure how its shade that doesnt make me think anything about your alignment. It IS interesting if you were to flip scum and maybe if both of them were to flip town. Gor now its just a data point
But hes be mainly pushing one person and got more open to killing others towards middle of the day and focused back on his one towards the end.
Its not (neccesarily) scummy, but the only way that profile doesnt make sense as scum is if cantrip were his partner.
Like, you and rhand both work as partners. Certainly all the people he didnt push at all.
What doesnt make sense to you?
it’s about NINE HOURS from this post. With SEVEN PERSONS alive it’s FOUR VOTES to lynch.
I’ll provide a VC when i am home, but as of now i don’t believe anything has changed since the previous one.
Fair, although Shadow definitely knows how to game expectations.
That last line...unpack it for me?
I don't think so? I haven't been mislunched in a while. Revolution we were both town, and before that was Avant Garde, which I think was before you started playing here. I'd have to do a deeper dive to see how often you've pushed/strongly suspected me when we were both town.
So you're saying that he's there more or less by default, not really because of anything he's done but because Rhand and KCC have done townie things?
I sorta agree with you that Rhand's moment of introspection felt real, and I've generally liked his responses. The only thing that felt weird was his narrowing the PoE to me based on--in part--you being Tubba's "only" "scum" read, and I mostly feel like Rhand was sincere in explaining his confusion. He's pushing away from you, but not in a way that makes me feel like you're buddies. On KCC's side, the early reactiveness of her posts + the more recent KJ push followed by "oh you're not even my strongest suspect" process felt...off.
Why are you downplaying lylo? If I end up in F3 (no thank you, but if), I'd much rather be faced with scum!Tubba than scum!you. And I *am* pushing to lunch a player I think is scum; I want Rhand to re-evaluate his read on you.
You never said: why did you *exasperated sigh* in 187? What was exasperating?
Mostly how he's approached me. He had been asking questions, just not about the one player he claimed to think was most likely scum (or least likely town).