That doesn't make it okay. -And I wasn't avoiding RVS, I was being hilarious.
Also, what are the odds here that Emiko is scum, and was told to just go after KJ
its like, fun RVS vote but now im talking to vaimes lets figure this out
Here theres some attempt to learn about tubba, but its passive. Even the question she asks him ("any reason you havent voted") is not conversational.
Its frowny passive "getting to know you" not the smiley proactive kcc that worked her way into eurovision finding townies to trust by talking to them.
Goes into the halfhearted push on me. Tom is less forthcoming ill just say that now instead of trying to draw him out or waiting for him to say more
VOTE COUNT 1.3 "Funny... there's been a lot of "heroic figures" in the news lately: Rorschach captured, Veidt shot at, Doc Manhattan leaves Earth, damn near kicking off World War Three..." Tubba Fett (1): KCC
KCC (2): Rhand, tom
Cantrip (1): Shadow
With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch!
Deadline is 11:59PM Eastern on Friday, 15 Nov.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
@Cantrip: WRT Tubba/Tom, yes, I am pretty sure I have been in all the gams they’ve been in together. (And I think tom and I have discussed it out of game).
@cantrip/KJ: I’m voting Cantrip because I have town leanings/pings on every other player.
Ooh la la...
I think it’s probably what he says it is, he wants me to be better. I think it’d be easier to just pocket or ignore me.
Im interpreting this difference as essentially TMI that shes the (informed) minority. Shes not reaching out and figuring out who to trust, but looking for weakness. Stalking.
The difference is this is a much smaller game. There was way less to pick through in RVS than I'm used to. And with Rhands 2 short posts, and Cantrip being in weekend mode, I had all of 4 people to work with
Here theres some attempt to learn about tubba, but its passive. Even the question she asks him ("any reason you havent voted") is not conversational.
Its frowny passive "getting to know you" not the smiley proactive kcc that worked her way into eurovision finding townies to trust by talking to them.
Okay, the tone is probably a little weird there. I thought Tubba might be trying to pocket me early, which I'm happy to play into, but I also wanted to press him on his nonRVS, but I didn't want it to come across aggressively
Smaller game, sure. Its a different dynamic and level of urgency. Not really sure how that changes an approach to make you want to work with people less?
Tubba pocketing though... like thats not really how that works no scum expects to make you love him in RVS and make it stick forever... even if he is scum thats just friendliness
Smaller game, sure. Its a different dynamic and level of urgency. Not really sure how that changes an approach to make you want to work with people less?
There's less people here to work with? There's only 6 of you, a full third of which are scum.
Tubba pocketing though... like thats not really how that works no scum expects to make you love him in RVS and make it stick forever... even if he is scum thats just friendliness
It kinda depends on the player. That's why I asked you for some insight there, I wanted to know if aggressive friendliness was was normal for him
My thought about KCC is she's being less proactive than Eurovision. I could easily see that she was trying to get people's alignments there, hence the townread.
This game, she's being less active in trying to figure people out. And her saying that there's not a lot of people doesn't make sense because that should make her want to work a little harder to find people's alignments, at least the few people who aren't Cantrip or Rhand who are on temp V/LA...
KCC: What's the difference between misinterpretation and paranoia? Are you saying that I was rolehunting and tom caught me?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Looking at this playerlist, including yourself, who do you think would be possible mislynches?
I would have immediately said KJ, but he cleaned up some of his play and made it deep into Euro.
I don't consider myself mislynchable, it's basically never happened, but others here might after I just cop CC scum and then took heavy pressure anyway. That could look tempting
I think of Cantrip as being hard to mislynch midgame, but he was teetering around it near the end of Euro and also D1 there.
I heard some talk about you being a potential mislynch when you are busy.
Tom and Shadow seem just generally hard to lynch at all
I don't know Tubba, but he endgamed the only game I glanced at
I was hoping this would give me insight in wether or not KCC had talked about this / given it thought before I asked the question.
And I think she might have: afaik she hasn’t been scum recently, and that talk about me being mislyncheable when I am busy must come from somewhere.
Did we talk about that in recent spec chats?
Less people to work with makes me want to find ones i can trust more.
But it's also way harder to find them. Like, in a normal game, I can set aside a few people that seem okay, assume they are town, and worry about figuring it out D3 if they're alive.
Do you have anyone you feel good about rn? I think youve given only null and negative reads
I'm starting to think you're town, this push feels like you're genuinely trying to figure me out. But that's about it.
I liked Tubbas response to my poke, but I need to see much more there.
I did townread Rhand briefly, as I doubted scumRhand would jump into the game swinging at me, but the push hasn't been great. And depending on his partner, he could very well view me as one of the softer targets available. And if you're both town, it means scum are just circling here.
My thought about KCC is she's being less proactive than Eurovision. I could easily see that she was trying to get people's alignments there, hence the townread.
This game, she's being less active in trying to figure people out. And her saying that there's not a lot of people doesn't make sense because that should make her want to work a little harder to find people's alignments, at least the few people who aren't Cantrip or Rhand who are on temp V/LA...
That's 1/3 of the game, and Tubba isn't posting much either. You also know that I'm perfectly happy to read people by letting them come to me
KCC: What's the difference between misinterpretation and paranoia? Are you saying that I was rolehunting and tom caught me?
No, I don't think you were role hunting, I don't even think that's a thing you do.
But Tom's vote seemed just normal RVS, and you overreacted like it was serious, to something that just wasn't in that post. -I can kinda picture townyou misreading it, but it feels a little more likely if you have a guilty conscience.
I’m kinda digging this KCC pressure, and am not impressed by her responses. That said, I think she’s about even with Cantrip, and I think he ought to have some scrutiny here as well.
but why highlight this read this early in the game (as opposed to waiting for Tom to either continue as-is or change)?
If I'm right about his scum play, and why, and my read encourages him to adjust, I think that'll just make him easier to read, not harder
And there's not much of a later to wait for. As much as I'd like to, I can't really set 2/3rds of the game on the back burner when Tomorrow is potential lylo
Fair enough, but it still feels like waiting even just 24 hours before highlighting that would have been optimal.
@Cantrip: WRT Tubba/Tom, yes, I am pretty sure I have been in all the gams they’ve been in together. (And I think tom and I have discussed it out of game).
Ok, then not as odd as I originally thought.
Quote from Shadow »
@cantrip/KJ: I’m voting Cantrip because I have town leanings/pings on every other player.
I think it’s probably what he says it is, he wants me to be better. I think it’d be easier to just pocket or ignore me.
This doesn't feel like the kind of aspect that Tom would manipulate for scum advantage. Good point.
Not sure I agree with Tom's tonal read on KCC, but all her posts since then have been reactive except for 113, which feels like KCC is trying to allude to something/get Shadow focused on Rhand without committing to it/change the subject.
Everyone is mislynchable in a micro, but if I was looking at the playerlist in a vacuum, Rhand, tubba, then Tom in a F3 scenario if I was feeling spicy.
Not sure I agree with Tom's tonal read on KCC, but all her posts since then have been reactive except for 113, which feels like KCC is trying to allude to something/get Shadow focused on Rhand without committing to it/change the subject.
This sums up my thoughts. It ever so slightly moves the needle on Cantrip for me.
But wouldn't KJ being paranoid be more indicative of him being town?
It depends on how. -That reaction feels less like townKJ being paranoid of a potential scumTom and more like scumKJ worried that townTom was on to him already, with a caught for the wrong reason vibe.
It just feels that way because the top poster is voting me and not much else is going on. I'm also looking into KJ, he just doesn't post quite as often as tom
As for 113, yes, I want Shadow's thoughts on Rhand there
Everyone is mislynchable in a micro, but if I was looking at the playerlist in a vacuum, Rhand, tubba, then Tom in a F3 scenario if I was feeling spicy.
Thanks, but I meant what do you think of him asking that question, and his explanation for why and the follow-up
Oh, gotcha, sorry. I think it’s a fine question, and his reasoning for asking it tracks okay. I think perhaps he’s read more into your response than I would.
KCCs defense is all perfectly reasonable but doesnt make me want to lynch her any less.
Im a bit gunshy with an early read because of silver in the last game, but its whatever cant let one shake my confidence ive also lynched scum d1 a couple times this month...
Oh, gotcha, sorry. I think it’s a fine question, and his reasoning for asking it tracks okay. I think perhaps he’s read more into your response than I would.
Why?
That's exactly it, how much he read into it.
Can you think of a response to it, where Rhand couldn't have just found something to attack? Can you think of a response where he would have actually learned anything?
It's not a real question, it's a trap. It reminds me of Az's "why do you think I'm voting you?" from Modern.
And yeah, his reasoning for it kinda sounds okay, but why give it? It's an overexplanation.
But wouldn't KJ being paranoid be more indicative of him being town?
It depends on how. -That reaction feels less like townKJ being paranoid of a potential scumTom and more like scumKJ worried that townTom was on to him already, with a caught for the wrong reason vibe.
I think it feels more likely to be town!KJ trying to figure out what Tom (possibly scum!Tom) is doing with that quote-vote combo.
It just feels that way because the top poster is voting me and not much else is going on. I'm also looking into KJ, he just doesn't post quite as often as tom
Eh, maybe.
Quote from KCC »
As for 113, yes, I want Shadow's thoughts on Rhand there
Ok? I mean, it's still the only avenue of attack you're pursuing, so maybe legit.
Shadow, what specifically did you like from Tubba when you made #67?
Tom, When was the last time you refused to weigh in on me? I've come to fear you as THE most likely to catch me as scum (but obviously not the most likely to correctly read me as town given Eurovision). Mildly pinged by you saying you don't have an opinion on me yet.
Im not refusing to weigh in on you, i dont have a read yet.
Its basically the same as tubba. For both of you, because of history, i feel my read should hold extra weight.
As a result, im not gonna give a frivolous one. Im gonna overthink everything and wait for an overall conclusion that i feel good about putting into the thread to be sheeped. Its the way i work.
So im gonna sit here. Let the read come to me. Collate everything. Get it right because i know i can eventually.
Kcc on the other hand... Played with her twice never seen her as scum before but think she is here so YOLO
But wouldn't KJ being paranoid be more indicative of him being town?
It depends on how. -That reaction feels less like townKJ being paranoid of a potential scumTom and more like scumKJ worried that townTom was on to him already, with a caught for the wrong reason vibe.
I think it feels more likely to be town!KJ trying to figure out what Tom (possibly scum!Tom) is doing with that quote-vote combo.
see this is scummy prolly. My alignment has no relevance at all to this point about kj so shoehorning the "possibly scum!tom" when just saying "tom" is easier/more natural reads to like SHROOPing to avoid TMI.
Thats the sort of thing i would point out if i wasnt going for a more overall read on your mindset that i believe will have a higher accuracy (specifically for me reading you) than that sort of thing
Im not refusing to weigh in on you, i dont have a read yet.
Its basically the same as tubba. For both of you, because of history, i feel my read should hold extra weight.
As a result, im not gonna give a frivolous one. Im gonna overthink everything and wait for an overall conclusion that i feel good about putting into the thread to be sheeped. Its the way i work.
So im gonna sit here. Let the read come to me. Collate everything. Get it right because i know i can eventually.
Kcc on the other hand... Played with her twice never seen her as scum before but think she is here so YOLO
I just feel like you're generally very free with your opinions/reads. Maybe it's more noticeable here because there are so few players? I don't know. Still feels strange to me.
But wouldn't KJ being paranoid be more indicative of him being town?
It depends on how. -That reaction feels less like townKJ being paranoid of a potential scumTom and more like scumKJ worried that townTom was on to him already, with a caught for the wrong reason vibe.
I think it feels more likely to be town!KJ trying to figure out what Tom (possibly scum!Tom) is doing with that quote-vote combo.
see this is scummy prolly. My alignment has no relevance at all to this point about kj so shoehorning the "possibly scum!tom" when just saying "tom" is easier/more natural reads to like SHROOPing to avoid TMI.
Thats the sort of thing i would point out if i wasnt going for a more overall read on your mindset that i believe will have a higher accuracy (specifically for me reading you) than that sort of thing
Ah, I wasn't clear. I meant "possibly scum!Tom from KJ's perspective", as in KJ specifically trying to figure out if what you were doing was scummy.
No, not that you "should", just surprised that you don't, more especially in a game this small. Eurovision I don't think you weighed in on me until near EoD1, but you had a Silver to focus on there.
No, not that you "should", just surprised that you don't, more especially in a game this small. Eurovision I don't think you weighed in on me until near EoD1, but you had a Silver to focus on there.
i don't remember what the acronym is but its when scum edit their posts to take out the scummy bits and leave it unnatural.
Its an unreliable meme read from MU. Wanna say the "SH" is someones initials
In this case the shroop would be "cantrip added me being scum so as to not look like he knew i was town even though that doesnt actually make sense in context"
And it still doesnt even with your explanation tbh. Youre talking about townkj who wouldnt know so...
Still no read. I want to say trying to make me give one is town but it probably isnt if scumcantrip thinks hes doing well because hes super aware of how i read him etc but
Well
Lets be honest scumcantrip usually NKs me tonight and its not like my forced out d1 opinion would really change peoples mind in lylo or whatever so who really cares
Readlist, in order of my confidence in reading them correctly:
Tubba - null but i will get there
Kj - town. Seems obvious within his current trajectory of self improvement
Cantrip - null but i usually get there
Kcc - scum,
Rhand - town but im rarely right
Shadow - scum but im never right
No, not that you "should", just surprised that you don't, more especially in a game this small. Eurovision I don't think you weighed in on me until near EoD1, but you had a Silver to focus on there.
which is different from this game how?
I know it's only five fewer players, but I feel pretty hyper aware of everyone/like it's a lot easier to keep track of opinions/reads. I guess it's just me projecting.
In this case the shroop would be "cantrip added me being scum so as to not look like he knew i was town even though that doesnt actually make sense in context"
And it still doesnt even with your explanation tbh. Youre talking about townkj who wouldnt know so...
I'm not usually this bad at communicating. Let me try again:
I think it feels more likely to be town!KJ trying to figure out Tom's alignment based on what Tom's doing with that quote-vote combo, specifically if it makes scum!Tom more likely.
Quote from Tom »
Still no read. I want to say trying to make me give one is town but it probably isnt if scumcantrip thinks hes doing well because hes super aware of how i read him etc but
Well
Lets be honest scumcantrip usually NKs me tonight and its not like my forced out d1 opinion would really change peoples mind in lylo or whatever so who really cares
I mean, if I'm scum, I'm not doing well because Shadow (the other player I'd be most fearful of as scum) is scumreading me (by default, but still). Heck, I'd probably say that scum!me is as likely to push you for a read because I'd be trying to figure out how badly I needed to kill you. [Now you get to decide if this is me being honest or cheeky. ) But I feel a little less paranoid that you're scum holding off on weighing in with a super strong "he's scum" read on me D2 for the win.
Readlist, in order of my confidence in reading them correctly:
Tubba - null but i will get there
Kj - town. Seems obvious within his current trajectory of self improvement
Cantrip - null but i usually get there
Kcc - scum,
Rhand - town but im rarely right
Shadow - scum but im never right
I agree with two of the non-me reads here, possibly four. Care to guess as to which ones?
@KCC: you seem to be unsure of what to accuse me of. You seem to want to pretend I am full out attacking you and then call my “attack” weak while all I am really doing is voicing an unsure scumread.
That thing where you accuse me of overexplaining is you looking for things I am doing wrong. If you read that again, you’ll see that I had a plan that only gave me a weak result that I question while voicing it.
Your new response to that doesn’t match the first one though. “I heard some talk” and “you used it as defense in a game where you were scum” is very different.
KCC: You just got off a game where you said more than once that I was easy to read. Then you come into this game misreading me and generally playing very differently. I dislike this. This is why I'm scumreading you.
Also, not scared of tom at all. When have you ever seen my paranoid?
Aside: Is there no one against the KCC lynch here?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Nobody's voted or unvoted since the last VC! so next VC tomorrow.
Deadline remains 11:59PM Eastern on Friday, 15 Nov.
I feel like some people aren't posting a lot. I'll do a prod check tomorrow. If you haven't posted in more than 48 hours that would be grounds for a prod.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
@Shadow: Compare and contrast Cantrip vs. KCC. Which way should we go and why?
That’s just it though, I’m not even that against her lynch.
She’s basically reactive and defensive, but not really indignant in a way I would hope to see from wrongly accused town. Whereas Cantrip seems in a state of continual low level perturbed-ness. Not like “oh I think Cantrip is angry” though. But there’s not really a spark to either of them.
I kinda want a Cantrip lynch slightly more, if only because there is no push back to KCC.
@Shadow: Compare and contrast Cantrip vs. KCC. Which way should we go and why?
That’s just it though, I’m not even that against her lynch.
She’s basically reactive and defensive, but not really indignant in a way I would hope to see from wrongly accused town. Whereas Cantrip seems in a state of continual low level perturbed-ness. Not like “oh I think Cantrip is angry” though. But there’s not really a spark to either of them.
I kinda want a Cantrip lynch slightly more, if only because there is no push back to KCC.
Is a consensus lynch a reliable tell in a game this small? There’s not enough people and options, making steering lynches off buddies pretty obvious?
@Shadow: Hmmm. I don't see what you are about Cantrip and the low-level preterbed-ness. I also agree with you about KCC, in addition to what I said. I also think Tubba is probably correct that there's just too few scum for a consensus lynch to be a tell.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Shadow: Hmmm. I don't see what you are about Cantrip and the low-level preterbed-ness. I also agree with you about KCC, in addition to what I said. I also think Tubba is probably correct that there's just too few scum for a consensus lynch to be a tell.
Notes: I don't think tom+KCC is a world.
Neither do I. KCC / Shadow would make sense, but it’s probably just KCC / Cantrip.
No, not that you "should", just surprised that you don't, more especially in a game this small. Eurovision I don't think you weighed in on me until near EoD1, but you had a Silver to focus on there.
which is different from this game how?
I know it's only five fewer players, but I feel pretty hyper aware of everyone/like it's a lot easier to keep track of opinions/reads. I guess it's just me projecting.
In this case the shroop would be "cantrip added me being scum so as to not look like he knew i was town even though that doesnt actually make sense in context"
And it still doesnt even with your explanation tbh. Youre talking about townkj who wouldnt know so...
I'm not usually this bad at communicating. Let me try again:
I think it feels more likely to be town!KJ trying to figure out Tom's alignment based on what Tom's doing with that quote-vote combo, specifically if it makes scum!Tom more likely.
Quote from Tom »
Still no read. I want to say trying to make me give one is town but it probably isnt if scumcantrip thinks hes doing well because hes super aware of how i read him etc but
Well
Lets be honest scumcantrip usually NKs me tonight and its not like my forced out d1 opinion would really change peoples mind in lylo or whatever so who really cares
I mean, if I'm scum, I'm not doing well because Shadow (the other player I'd be most fearful of as scum) is scumreading me (by default, but still). Heck, I'd probably say that scum!me is as likely to push you for a read because I'd be trying to figure out how badly I needed to kill you. [Now you get to decide if this is me being honest or cheeky. ) But I feel a little less paranoid that you're scum holding off on weighing in with a super strong "he's scum" read on me D2 for the win.
Readlist, in order of my confidence in reading them correctly:
Tubba - null but i will get there
Kj - town. Seems obvious within his current trajectory of self improvement
Cantrip - null but i usually get there
Kcc - scum,
Rhand - town but im rarely right
Shadow - scum but im never right
I agree with two of the non-me reads here, possibly four. Care to guess as to which ones?
projecting what exactly? I think the only times ive had a read on you this early into a game were correct scumreads... :thinking:
I do get what youre saying re: kj. Its still a superfluous addition.
Hmm so you agree with 2 or 4 of a possible 5 reads... disagree on rhand?
@KCC: you seem to be unsure of what to accuse me of. You seem to want to pretend I am full out attacking you and then call my “attack” weak while all I am really doing is voicing an unsure scumread.
That thing where you accuse me of overexplaining is you looking for things I am doing wrong. If you read that again, you’ll see that I had a plan that only gave me a weak result that I question while voicing it.
Your new response to that doesn’t match the first one though. “I heard some talk” and “you used it as defense in a game where you were scum” is very different.
this is the way i tunnel. Once i commit to someone being scum everything seems to feed into that (see: eurovision lol)
I say that because i dont think rhand tunnels that way usually? At least in my memory hes better at avoiding the confirmation bias as town whereas his kcc read feels snowbally.
Might be a sign. Not checking rhand meta to confirm. Maybe kcc will if she is town and feels like fighting...
Still just ok with this lynch going through though.
Her defense has all been fine i guess but pressure didnt make her try to solve or anything just defend.
Tubbas probably right that the consensusyness doesnt mean much. Maybe at all, especially in a micro. I would think a potential buddy should at least have a push on a towny, but really of the players in this game id only trust me and rhand to play to wincon as scum (Tubba and cantrip are both too passive, shadow too confident in his ability to solo win with some towncred, kj a wildcard in my eyes) and hes just pushing kcc too
@tom: I do tunnel. And I generally don’t realise when I’m doing it.
I have a high hit% early game though, and I’m pretty convinced this is a hit.
Am I really in a tunnel?
@tom: I do tunnel. And I generally don’t realise when I’m doing it.
I have a high hit% early game though, and I’m pretty convinced this is a hit.
Am I really in a tunnel?
no idea!
Even if we both are its fine if its correct.
Ok? I mean, it's still the only avenue of attack you're pursuing, so maybe legit.
That's not true, I'm looking at Rhand and KJ right now. I asked Shadow specifically there because he looked like he could be testing the water for a shift on to me and I'm wondering if Shadow/Rhand could be a possibility
@KCC: you seem to be unsure of what to accuse me of. You seem to want to pretend I am full out attacking you and then call my “attack” weak while all I am really doing is voicing an unsure scumread.
Oh, it's just an unsure read now? Because you made this post immediately before:
That thing where you accuse me of overexplaining is you looking for things I am doing wrong. If you read that again, you’ll see that I had a plan that only gave me a weak result that I question while voicing it.
Yes, I'm looking for things that are wrong, it's called scum hunting. And I did read it, I see you reaching for reasons.
Your new response to that doesn’t match the first one though. “I heard some talk” and “you used it as defense in a game where you were scum” is very different.
Different responses in different contexts. If you were the only one to say it, as a defense as scum, I wouldn't have put much stock in it. But other players voiced that there as well, which is what I was saying the first time -I haven't seen it happen, but others said you've been mislynched when busy. I mentioned you specifically the second time, because you were trying to frame it like I must have heard it in a scumchat, and acting like you weren't part of that discussion in just the last game
I say that because i dont think rhand tunnels that way usually? At least in my memory hes better at avoiding the confirmation bias as town whereas his kcc read feels snowbally.
This is exactly what I'm saying. While you noticed some things that are definitely different from how I get into a larger game, rhand just threw an early vote, got someone else to bite, and started reaching for anything to keep the pressure going
@Shadow: Compare and contrast Cantrip vs. KCC. Which way should we go and why?
I don't like this either. I can see wanting to get Shadow's thoughts here and getting him to commit to reads, but this feels like trying to push a false dichotomy
@Shadow: Hmmm. I don't see what you are about Cantrip and the low-level preterbed-ness. I also agree with you about KCC, in addition to what I said. I also think Tubba is probably correct that there's just too few scum for a consensus lynch to be a tell.
Notes: I don't think tom+KCC is a world.
Neither do I. KCC / Shadow would make sense, but it’s probably just KCC / Cantrip.
I could see KCC+Shadow, but I think KCC+Tubba is a good chance, too. Tubba is significantly sitting on the sidelines and has only given light reads, all "positive":
• KJ is "buzzkilly, obnoxiously serious town"
• Tom and KCC are ">scummy"
• With Shadow he's "cautiously optimistic"
And he only posted those reads upon prompting. His reasons for Tom, KCC, and Shadow are hedged. All other posts have been playful and without substance.
projecting what exactly? I think the only times ive had a read on you this early into a game were correct scumreads... :thinking:
I do get what youre saying re: kj. Its still a superfluous addition.
Hmm so you agree with 2 or 4 of a possible 5 reads... disagree on rhand?
Projecting that everyone should have at least a moderate-to-strong read on most if not all players.
No, I haven't seen anything that pings me about Rhand other than that he's suspecting me. But I think Shadow's more likely town than scum, and I'm not sure what to think that you're still null on Tubba, especially after his last post. But feeling pretty good about KJ=town, KCC=scum, Rhand=Town.
Ok? I mean, it's still the only avenue of attack you're pursuing, so maybe legit.
That's not true, I'm looking at Rhand and KJ right now. I asked Shadow specifically there because he looked like he could be testing the water for a shift on to me and I'm wondering if Shadow/Rhand could be a possibility
Fair, but KJ is firmly in his town wheelhouse right now. Rhand feels pretty town, too.
its like, fun RVS vote but now im talking to vaimes lets figure this out
Here theres some attempt to learn about tubba, but its passive. Even the question she asks him ("any reason you havent voted") is not conversational.
Its frowny passive "getting to know you" not the smiley proactive kcc that worked her way into eurovision finding townies to trust by talking to them.
Goes into the halfhearted push on me. Tom is less forthcoming ill just say that now instead of trying to draw him out or waiting for him to say more
"Funny... there's been a lot of "heroic figures" in the news lately: Rorschach captured, Veidt shot at, Doc Manhattan leaves Earth, damn near kicking off World War Three..."
Tubba Fett (1): KCC
KCC (2): Rhand, tom
Cantrip (1): Shadow
With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch!
Deadline is 11:59PM Eastern on Friday, 15 Nov.
Ooh la la...
I think it’s probably what he says it is, he wants me to be better. I think it’d be easier to just pocket or ignore me.
@Rhand
What gave you the pockety vibe from KCC?
The difference is this is a much smaller game. There was way less to pick through in RVS than I'm used to. And with Rhands 2 short posts, and Cantrip being in weekend mode, I had all of 4 people to work with
Okay, the tone is probably a little weird there. I thought Tubba might be trying to pocket me early, which I'm happy to play into, but I also wanted to press him on his nonRVS, but I didn't want it to come across aggressively
Tubba pocketing though... like thats not really how that works no scum expects to make you love him in RVS and make it stick forever... even if he is scum thats just friendliness
There's less people here to work with? There's only 6 of you, a full third of which are scum.
It kinda depends on the player. That's why I asked you for some insight there, I wanted to know if aggressive friendliness was was normal for him
Do you have anyone you feel good about rn? I think youve given only null and negative reads
This game, she's being less active in trying to figure people out. And her saying that there's not a lot of people doesn't make sense because that should make her want to work a little harder to find people's alignments, at least the few people who aren't Cantrip or Rhand who are on temp V/LA...
KCC: What's the difference between misinterpretation and paranoia? Are you saying that I was rolehunting and tom caught me?
I was hoping this would give me insight in wether or not KCC had talked about this / given it thought before I asked the question.
And I think she might have: afaik she hasn’t been scum recently, and that talk about me being mislyncheable when I am busy must come from somewhere.
Did we talk about that in recent spec chats?
But it's also way harder to find them. Like, in a normal game, I can set aside a few people that seem okay, assume they are town, and worry about figuring it out D3 if they're alive.
I'm starting to think you're town, this push feels like you're genuinely trying to figure me out. But that's about it.
I liked Tubbas response to my poke, but I need to see much more there.
I did townread Rhand briefly, as I doubted scumRhand would jump into the game swinging at me, but the push hasn't been great. And depending on his partner, he could very well view me as one of the softer targets available. And if you're both town, it means scum are just circling here.
That's 1/3 of the game, and Tubba isn't posting much either. You also know that I'm perfectly happy to read people by letting them come to me
No, I don't think you were role hunting, I don't even think that's a thing you do.
But Tom's vote seemed just normal RVS, and you overreacted like it was serious, to something that just wasn't in that post. -I can kinda picture townyou misreading it, but it feels a little more likely if you have a guilty conscience.
You used that as a defense to your D1 wagon in Euro!
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StaffOk.
Fair enough, but it still feels like waiting even just 24 hours before highlighting that would have been optimal.
Ok, then not as odd as I originally thought.
You're...you're default-voting me?
This doesn't feel like the kind of aspect that Tom would manipulate for scum advantage. Good point.
Not sure I agree with Tom's tonal read on KCC, but all her posts since then have been reactive except for 113, which feels like KCC is trying to allude to something/get Shadow focused on Rhand without committing to it/change the subject.
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StaffI probably would have waited a bit if you didn't specifically ask me about Tom.
It just feels that way because the top poster is voting me and not much else is going on. I'm also looking into KJ, he just doesn't post quite as often as tom
As for 113, yes, I want Shadow's thoughts on Rhand there
Thanks, but I meant what do you think of him asking that question, and his explanation for why and the follow-up
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StaffWhy?
Im a bit gunshy with an early read because of silver in the last game, but its whatever cant let one shake my confidence ive also lynched scum d1 a couple times this month...
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StaffVaguely not w/w with kcc and more likely partners with you from bristling at me repeating my question to you about her but even i know thats reachy
Can you think of a response to it, where Rhand couldn't have just found something to attack? Can you think of a response where he would have actually learned anything?
It's not a real question, it's a trap. It reminds me of Az's "why do you think I'm voting you?" from Modern.
And yeah, his reasoning for it kinda sounds okay, but why give it? It's an overexplanation.
Well, I can't do anything more than just explain my posts.
Yeah, and I lynched KK there, it happens. I'm the last person who'd hold it against you
Let's do something productive. Assume I'm town for a second, who is scum?
Did you feel pressured to answer? Why not say you were waiting to weigh in?
Eh, maybe.
Ok? I mean, it's still the only avenue of attack you're pursuing, so maybe legit.
Shadow, what specifically did you like from Tubba when you made #67?
Tom, When was the last time you refused to weigh in on me? I've come to fear you as THE most likely to catch me as scum (but obviously not the most likely to correctly read me as town given Eurovision). Mildly pinged by you saying you don't have an opinion on me yet.
Its basically the same as tubba. For both of you, because of history, i feel my read should hold extra weight.
As a result, im not gonna give a frivolous one. Im gonna overthink everything and wait for an overall conclusion that i feel good about putting into the thread to be sheeped. Its the way i work.
So im gonna sit here. Let the read come to me. Collate everything. Get it right because i know i can eventually.
Kcc on the other hand... Played with her twice never seen her as scum before but think she is here so YOLO
Thats the sort of thing i would point out if i wasnt going for a more overall read on your mindset that i believe will have a higher accuracy (specifically for me reading you) than that sort of thing
Ah, I wasn't clear. I meant "possibly scum!Tom from KJ's perspective", as in KJ specifically trying to figure out if what you were doing was scummy.
I guess the question then is... do you think i should have a read on you at this time? What should it be? What should i be basing it on?
i don't remember what the acronym is but its when scum edit their posts to take out the scummy bits and leave it unnatural.
Its an unreliable meme read from MU. Wanna say the "SH" is someones initials
And it still doesnt even with your explanation tbh. Youre talking about townkj who wouldnt know so...
Still no read. I want to say trying to make me give one is town but it probably isnt if scumcantrip thinks hes doing well because hes super aware of how i read him etc but
Well
Lets be honest scumcantrip usually NKs me tonight and its not like my forced out d1 opinion would really change peoples mind in lylo or whatever so who really cares
Tubba - null but i will get there
Kj - town. Seems obvious within his current trajectory of self improvement
Cantrip - null but i usually get there
Kcc - scum,
Rhand - town but im rarely right
Shadow - scum but im never right
I think it feels more likely to be town!KJ trying to figure out Tom's alignment based on what Tom's doing with that quote-vote combo, specifically if it makes scum!Tom more likely.
I mean, if I'm scum, I'm not doing well because Shadow (the other player I'd be most fearful of as scum) is scumreading me (by default, but still). Heck, I'd probably say that scum!me is as likely to push you for a read because I'd be trying to figure out how badly I needed to kill you. [Now you get to decide if this is me being honest or cheeky.
I agree with two of the non-me reads here, possibly four. Care to guess as to which ones?
That thing where you accuse me of overexplaining is you looking for things I am doing wrong. If you read that again, you’ll see that I had a plan that only gave me a weak result that I question while voicing it.
Your new response to that doesn’t match the first one though. “I heard some talk” and “you used it as defense in a game where you were scum” is very different.
Also, not scared of tom at all. When have you ever seen my paranoid?
Aside: Is there no one against the KCC lynch here?
@Shadow: Compare and contrast Cantrip vs. KCC. Which way should we go and why?
Deadline remains 11:59PM Eastern on Friday, 15 Nov.
I feel like some people aren't posting a lot. I'll do a prod check tomorrow. If you haven't posted in more than 48 hours that would be grounds for a prod.
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StaffShe’s basically reactive and defensive, but not really indignant in a way I would hope to see from wrongly accused town. Whereas Cantrip seems in a state of continual low level perturbed-ness. Not like “oh I think Cantrip is angry” though. But there’s not really a spark to either of them.
I kinda want a Cantrip lynch slightly more, if only because there is no push back to KCC.
Is a consensus lynch a reliable tell in a game this small? There’s not enough people and options, making steering lynches off buddies pretty obvious?
Notes: I don't think tom+KCC is a world.
Neither do I. KCC / Shadow would make sense, but it’s probably just KCC / Cantrip.
I do get what youre saying re: kj. Its still a superfluous addition.
Hmm so you agree with 2 or 4 of a possible 5 reads... disagree on rhand?
I say that because i dont think rhand tunnels that way usually? At least in my memory hes better at avoiding the confirmation bias as town whereas his kcc read feels snowbally.
Might be a sign. Not checking rhand meta to confirm. Maybe kcc will if she is town and feels like fighting...
Her defense has all been fine i guess but pressure didnt make her try to solve or anything just defend.
Tubbas probably right that the consensusyness doesnt mean much. Maybe at all, especially in a micro. I would think a potential buddy should at least have a push on a towny, but really of the players in this game id only trust me and rhand to play to wincon as scum (Tubba and cantrip are both too passive, shadow too confident in his ability to solo win with some towncred, kj a wildcard in my eyes) and hes just pushing kcc too
I have a high hit% early game though, and I’m pretty convinced this is a hit.
Am I really in a tunnel?
Even if we both are its fine if its correct.
GL
No, I didn't feel pressured to, but like I said, I didn't see a strong reason to hold it
That's not true, I'm looking at Rhand and KJ right now. I asked Shadow specifically there because he looked like he could be testing the water for a shift on to me and I'm wondering if Shadow/Rhand could be a possibility
I don't think you're easy to read. I think I can read you.
And I dislike that you were getting early townreads for basically no reason and weren't at all suspicious of that.
This is kinda the point. I obviously haven't seen your scum game recently, but I don't see townyou jumping at that RVS vote like that
Oh, it's just an unsure read now? Because you made this post immediately before:
You were certainly acting confident there
Yes, I'm looking for things that are wrong, it's called scum hunting. And I did read it, I see you reaching for reasons.
Different responses in different contexts. If you were the only one to say it, as a defense as scum, I wouldn't have put much stock in it. But other players voiced that there as well, which is what I was saying the first time -I haven't seen it happen, but others said you've been mislynched when busy. I mentioned you specifically the second time, because you were trying to frame it like I must have heard it in a scumchat, and acting like you weren't part of that discussion in just the last game
And now there's this great excuse
This is exactly what I'm saying. While you noticed some things that are definitely different from how I get into a larger game, rhand just threw an early vote, got someone else to bite, and started reaching for anything to keep the pressure going
I don't like this either. I can see wanting to get Shadow's thoughts here and getting him to commit to reads, but this feels like trying to push a false dichotomy
• KJ is "buzzkilly, obnoxiously serious town"
• Tom and KCC are ">scummy"
• With Shadow he's "cautiously optimistic"
And he only posted those reads upon prompting. His reasons for Tom, KCC, and Shadow are hedged. All other posts have been playful and without substance.
Projecting that everyone should have at least a moderate-to-strong read on most if not all players.
No, I haven't seen anything that pings me about Rhand other than that he's suspecting me. But I think Shadow's more likely town than scum, and I'm not sure what to think that you're still null on Tubba, especially after his last post. But feeling pretty good about KJ=town, KCC=scum, Rhand=Town.
I'm pretty sure KJ regularly posts double-takes like that as either alignment.
Fair, but KJ is firmly in his town wheelhouse right now. Rhand feels pretty town, too.