Quote from Killjoy »KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Quote from Killjoy »@KCC: Lets talk about KK. Can you draw a line between each of the posts in question that myself and Meg were talking about? There was one where you said "Still not liking KK" despite that being the first time you mentioned actually not liking KK, and there was the other where you pushed against counterwagons for him. There were more I think but that's what immediately came to mind.
Quote from KittyCupCake »@Anyone pushing a KK counterwagon from this point forward: I'm going to need to see not just why you think they are a better lynch, but why you think they are so much more likely to be scum that it's worth dumping more claims into the thread at this point. Or, why you don't care
Quote from tomsloger »eh. as a community were sort of dicks to everyone.
Quote from Vaimes »Yeah, I tunneled Silver all game and now I'm going to magically try and save him.
Quote from Killjoy » This is the post I was referring to, KCC.
Quote from Killjoy »@Meg: Yes, you posted a massive case that looked as if to attempt to get KCC lynched but a lot of it would have been stronger had you talked to KCC about it to clarify her positioning. Like, yeah her progression on KCC was weird. Why not confront her on it? We had a couple days till deadline at that point. At least attempting to ask would have demonstrated a desire to, you know, solve.
No our back and forth isn't waht I'm referring to.
Quote from Killjoy »Re: ISOing me: When you ISO'd me you'd notice I've been townreading KCC pretty much all game. Therefore your confusion is weird, especially after doing so.
My read on KCC isn't as town now because of the point you made about her progression on KK+ the things I noticed that I stated in our back and forth. But I intend to see what's up with that. I'm not sure you want to due to how you approached this.
Quote from Killjoy »Yes, we do have different views on KCC's votes... but like I said, I feel like poking around is something a cop might do. Do you disagree?
I'm not asking if that's the optimal strategy. I'm asking if that's a thing that it makes sense to do from your perspective.
Now, I'd like to see your response to KCC's recent postings.
Quote from Killjoy »Also I posted two of the same quote.
It's supposed to be 1356 and 1357.
Because I didn't start it. Vaimes told you to slapfight with KCC. And then you just went off on your case.
Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Quote from Vaimes »God I hate games where everyone seems to be making good points.
KJ, I just had a moment of frustration. It’s not that the questions are irrelevant, I’m at a point where I want more hard stances rather than questions that go on forever and ever.
Quote from Prophylaxis »Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
Quote from Vaimes »The argument KCC is proposing is that with an Informed Vanilla, their check, the Cop and their check, and the vig, that's potentially five townfirms on Day 2.
Quote from KittyCupCake »Quote from Killjoy » This is the post I was referring to, KCC.
Okay, so part of that is me believing we already had scum and not wanting to let him go on a vanilla claim.
But mostly, that is just good gameplay:
Let's say we run someone else up to claim at EoD. What are the possible outcomes?
1 (Worst case): We run up a town PR and they get NKed. This is what I'm trying to avoid.
2 (still bad): We run up a vanilla townie, but then decide we actually do want to go back and lynch KK after all. This isn't as bad as 1, but still helps scum with setup info and narrowed NK targets, for no reason.
3 (meh): We run up scum, they claim power. If immediately CCed, this catches scum, but outs power earlier than needed. Not all townies know to hold their CC. If no CC, we just go back and lynch KK. Which is fine, as that scum is now somewhat exposed and locked into the claim, but isn't any short term benefit, and not really worth the risk of the worse outcomes
4 (best case): We run up another Vanilla claim and actually lynch them. If town, not a huge loss, but we shouldn't have run up KK then. If scum, great, but we still shouldn't have run up KK first.
-And that's basically the test I briefly posted there: if we are passing on a Vanilla claim, we better be confident enough in the new target being scum that it's worth the risk of exposing PRs.
Quote from Megiddo »Quote from Killjoy »@Meg: Yes, you posted a massive case that looked as if to attempt to get KCC lynched but a lot of it would have been stronger had you talked to KCC about it to clarify her positioning. Like, yeah her progression on KCC was weird. Why not confront her on it? We had a couple days till deadline at that point. At least attempting to ask would have demonstrated a desire to, you know, solve.
No our back and forth isn't waht I'm referring to.Can you elaborate on the "desire to solve" comment?
1) OK, so you were townreading her all game, but why does that prompt such a defense here in her absence? I don't think I have exactly been trying to strongarm people into voting KCC in absentia here. I posted a case and immediately we got sucked into a back and forth. I did ask you what you thought of it, but like... why jump in in the first place? Why continue the argument? Outside of answering direct questions about it I don't think I've exactly been hammering people over the head to VOTE KCC. Even I haven't voted her... because I was waiting for her.
2) I'm very interested in why you would say I'm not interested in sussing out KCC. Again, she wasn't here. And what have I been doing in the meantime, do you think? If I had done what you suggested I would have... asked KCC a bunch of questions and sat on my hands until she came back, which was right before deadline. Cool. Is that more effective than doing what I did? The content of the post would have likely been very similar.
I don't disagree that a cop might want to poke around. I'd agree that makes sense.
However, I do disagree with your premise here. I think you're trying to shift the argument away here from evaluating the qualities of KCC's posts to determine if they are actually "poking around" to saying that "poking around is a thing that cops do." Which I do not like; I think you're begging the question.
I also am very excited to dig through KCC's responses and actually talk to her face to face! I'll get to that today.
Hm? I'd dispute that description of events. But let's say you're right and things happened exactly as you just said. What does this say about me, Vaimes, and KCC?
Quote from EmikoYuriemoto »in 1480 killjoy appears to treat meg as town.
in 1482 killjoy votes for meg
Quote from EmikoYuriemoto »in 1480 killjoy appears to treat meg as town .
in 1482 killjoy votes for meg .
why so different ?
Quote from KittyCupCake »Hey, Vez, can I get your thoughts on
-Why last was cagey with his claim D2, after being so willing to claim D1?
-What Last was so worried about after deciding he needed to claim Today
-Why he's not voting me
Quote from fulcrum »You are the worst towmcheck I have ever had
Quote from Vaimes »Vote Last
The way I see it, if both he and KCC are town, we probably always lose. And if KCC is scum, this lunch won’t lose us the game, so.
Quote from Sir Chris »I think KJ is highly likely to be town based off of the fact that he isn't accepting the paradigm of the day as it has been established. Going against the grain in this scenario is a good look.
Not sure I am going to have time to do a full re-read but I will say I think it is dangerous to rely too much on setup gaming like I see from a lot of you. "Well if this is that we lose anyway lol" is just such a trash level thinking process.
Quote from Lastwhisper »why has everyone been stingy with their votes, why did I sit at 2 votes for 4 days, and the vote count just changed?
KCC votes Megs
and Vaimes votes me
this is gunna be bad tomorrow once I flip town, and if KCC is town as well
I mean I get where Vaimes is coming from
but its not impossible