i think town vaimes just does the wacky thing and doesn’t try to defend himself when called out by saying he’s done it before as town.
Feel like that's one of those "objectively scummy" things that villagers do all the time, though. Can't help but want to defend yourself when you think someone else is mischaracterizing you.
Don't think it makes him a villager, just not sure it makes him a wolf.
Personally I don't think you're gonna get anywhere with these questions you've been tossing at me. I feel like you're focusing on stuff I don't really care/think about and don't have anything to do with my role PM. Do you disagree?
Yes and no. I mean, clearly I'm not expecting scumYou to have some epic meltdown collapse over this, but I think I'm getting insight. You're also not the only person reacting
I feel like I’ve seen Vaimes no Vote more than once, cause I recall commenting on it once then ignoring it at least another time after that, fwiw.
Any idea on alignment there?
Also, Vaimes, I appreciate you digging up a previous example for me, but you realize you had a good reason for doing it there? (Phone posting being more trouble than it's worth)
1) I have Not Voted in RVS several times before.
2) I thought the "contentless post" was funny, if a bit drier.
3) I promise to really, really think about your alignment. Not Silver's though!
I’ll pull games later. It was probably two or three.
you were asked to provide sources in response to you saying you had done it before.
also I'll retract my earlier language--you did not say you do this "as town." However, the implication, to me, was that you have done this as town. and, logically, why defend yourself with it unless you had? Or, at least, as mix of alignments.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
i think town vaimes just does the wacky thing and doesn’t try to defend himself when called out by saying he’s done it before as town.
Feel like that's one of those "objectively scummy" things that villagers do all the time, though. Can't help but want to defend yourself when you think someone else is mischaracterizing you.
Don't think it makes him a villager, just not sure it makes him a wolf.
the action itself is going to be NAI from any player who isn't an absolute first-time newb
but the circumstances and mentality around it might be AI.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Mkay. Your push on vaimes still seems flimsy and opportunistic to me, and I could see you taking this strong stance to preemptively defend your own post.
I know you unvoted, but what? If I was scum worried about needing to defend that post, my preemptive defense would be... not posting that in the first place.
Your post to answer the question before vaimes answered yours struck me as you caring more how you’re perceived than for getting his response to the pressure you were supposedly interested in applying.
I could understand this reasoning in some circumstances, but in what way could my response have possibly influenced Vaimes? It was apples and oranges
I thought the vote on me was RVS tbh, considering you didn't RVS either. Realized it was serious when you proposed a me/Silver team.
Yeah, your posts make a lot more sense if you started responding seriously around there. And I feel it's a good sign if you thought I was joking at first, less likely to come from a guilty conscience
Best defense is not making posts that need defending in the first place.
The second part is a good read though. I'm more probing than pushing
Sorry, I meant to have quotations around "Best defense is a good offense." I didn't mean it to read like a factual statement, just a possible state of mind.
You didn't read like probing vaimes to me, especially as you seemed content with your vote on him until just recently.
KCC's timing on dropping her vaimes case is continuing to make me uncomfortable, but not enough to make up my mind. Still.
IS THIS MY LIFE NOW?
I'm wondering if I always used to read KCC as scum in the past...
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Best defense is not making posts that need defending in the first place.
The second part is a good read though. I'm more probing than pushing
Sorry, I meant to have quotations around "Best defense is a good offense." I didn't mean it to read like a factual statement, just a possible state of mind.
You didn't read like probing vaimes to me, especially as you seemed content with your vote on him until just recently.
KCC's timing on dropping her vaimes case is continuing to make me uncomfortable, but not enough to make up my mind. Still.
IS THIS MY LIFE NOW?
I'm wondering if I always used to read KCC as scum in the past...
how many scum in KCC/Vaimes?
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
1 or 0. I don't have a strong read on vaimes. I'm feeling he's town right now, but I don't have any reasons for it. Its likely too influenced by my opinion of KCC.
I don't see them as distancing buddies.
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Best defense is not making posts that need defending in the first place.
The second part is a good read though. I'm more probing than pushing
Sorry, I meant to have quotations around "Best defense is a good offense." I didn't mean it to read like a factual statement, just a possible state of mind.
You didn't read like probing vaimes to me, especially as you seemed content with your vote on him until just recently.
KCC's timing on dropping her vaimes case is continuing to make me uncomfortable, but not enough to make up my mind. Still.
IS THIS MY LIFE NOW?
I'm wondering if I always used to read KCC as scum in the past...
Didn't really like the post where you unvoted KCC, but this post is pretty yikes.
It feels like you don't want to commit to anything, but keeping the possibility of KCC open even if you join another wagon. I'd say it also feels like distancing/bussing, but just a bit. As in this is scummy from any way you look at it, but it's a bit probable that is also on a buddy.
vote KoolKoal
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KJ/Emiko probably not knowingly aligned though, yeah.
Ok I figured out the problem I have with this post: it's that despite not actually scumreading Emiko, you make the point that 'TWTBAW is sometimes jsut a wolf'. I'm having trouble following that train of thought.
I agree that sometimes wolfy folks are just really really wolfy, but if you're not scumreading Emiko... why make the point that really wolfy people can just be wolves? You don't think Emiko is a wolf, so saying that feels out of place. Talk me throgh it.
Because instead of saying exactly one, and locking that group down, he’s saying up to one, which has an entirely different connotation.
Exactly one is super useful for false clearing/chain lynching/whatever, whereas up to one reads more like someone making a genuine situation read.
@KCC: technically Vaimes did participate, just didn’t vote, is that something you specifically think comes from a scum mindset more often/do you assess it based on player?
I feel like this is a bit premature, actually. It's possible that 'exactly one' just didn't occur to him.
I make this point because I'm getting newb vibes from him, so it's certainly more possible than not that he didn't think it through when he answered that. I therefore think that this is not a good reason to townread him at this stage. @Cantrip: You can weigh in here too since you made the same point.
You said you don't listen to teammates who order you around. But, would you accept their advice? Would you listen to tips on how to approach this game, their impressions of the other players, and things like that?
i think so .
I'm actually leaning town on Emiko for this post here; I believe it reflects that he hasn't really considered how he would interact with his teammates. Even if he is new, this is very likely a thing that would have come up in pregame scumchat.
@silvercrys3467 @Vaimes what do you think of the other person's alignment ?
I still have a slight town read on him because I don't think he'd jump into the game and poke the bear.
I did kind of think his poking was bait though.
Sorry, I meant bait as in trolling, trying to annoy you deliberately.
Oh. Hmmph.
That's not helpful after I said I was town reading you for it, though.
Emiko, KJ
tom
Vaimes
everyone else
KCC
Hi Silver. Two questions here: Do you think Vaimes kind of... countering your townread of him is alignment indicative of him? And why are you townreading me? I don't recall you saying. I'm pretty sure I made 4 posts as of now and three of them were voting Rhand in RVS for indiscernable reasons and a couple more posts not answering questions about it.
Personally I don't think you're gonna get anywhere with these questions you've been tossing at me. I feel like you're focusing on stuff I don't really care/think about and don't have anything to do with my role PM. Do you disagree?
Yes and no. I mean, clearly I'm not expecting scumYou to have some epic meltdown collapse over this, but I think I'm getting insight. You're also not the only person reacting
I feel like I’ve seen Vaimes no Vote more than once, cause I recall commenting on it once then ignoring it at least another time after that, fwiw.
Any idea on alignment there?
Also, Vaimes, I appreciate you digging up a previous example for me, but you realize you had a good reason for doing it there? (Phone posting being more trouble than it's worth)
I thought the vote on me was RVS tbh, considering you didn't RVS either. Realized it was serious when you proposed a me/Silver team.
Yeah, your posts make a lot more sense if you started responding seriously around there. And I feel it's a good sign if you thought I was joking at first, less likely to come from a guilty conscience
unvote vote vez
Hi KCC. I noticed you talked about vaimes and voted vez in this post. What's up with that?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@KoolKoal: Welcome back! We've drifted a bit in terminology due to crossover from other sites, I think "scummy" is a bit more popular than "wolfy" on the whole though.
Favorite alignment?
Thanks for the welcome
Favorite alignment is definitely scum. I love the feeling I get when someone wrongly declares me town, or says "scum would never do that." I'm pretty good at shaking people's expectations of what a scum would do. And when I get caught I tend to flail horribly, which is at least humorous to look back on
I also used to have a garbage town game, but was getting reasonably proficient when I stopped playing. I hope I haven't regressed back to garbage, and that more years of life experience actually made me better at reading people, but we'll see.
1 or 0. I don't have a strong read on vaimes. I'm feeling he's town right now, but I don't have any reasons for it. Its likely too influenced by my opinion of KCC.
I don't see them as distancing buddies.
first quote: scum saying this sort of thing have a strong inclination to set themselves up for success but he basically tramples over every opportunity to do so
Second one is just pretty genuine wrt reads influencing other reads.
True enough, KCC, I forgot you were already voting Vaimes.
I kind of think he's a villager, though. Could you walk me through the read like I've never played Mafia before? Or is it literally just, you think he was trying to avoid RVS?
@silvercrys3467 @Vaimes what do you think of the other person's alignment ?
I still have a slight town read on him because I don't think he'd jump into the game and poke the bear.
I did kind of think his poking was bait though.
and another one thats almost the same reason but makes it me specific. Yeah thatll look towny
I made this whole post and im not sure whether its a case or just fanfic of silvers internal dialogue if he is scum that doesnt prove anything.
Its technically believable that town silver thinks of himself as a bear and thinks scumvaimes would be scared of poking him. I dont personally believe that to be the case but thats not really relevant. But if silver believes it and townreads vaimes for it and is immediately more interested in...
Uh
Disagree with vaimes premise but still encourage him to go after emiko instead of him
Without having any questions for vaimes because hes town
BTW FTR I'm less bothered by Vaimes nonvote in RVS than I am the number of people putting focus on it.
yeah like
Clearly not a thing that matters. Vaimes responded pretty well to the pressure. Silver TMIed him...
If vez is scum too also TMIing townvaimes theres probably a decent chance the people pushing him are all town and thats why they feel good about opposing
Sorry, I meant to have quotations around "Best defense is a good offense." I didn't mean it to read like a factual statement, just a possible state of mind.
Oh, I know, and that's just absolutely not how I approach the game.
but then he did something he doesn’t do as town.
rip
How would what he posted be different if he was town!Vaimes doing something wacky and thinking he's done it more often than he has?
Don't think it makes him a villager, just not sure it makes him a wolf.
Why do think we do RVS? How do we move out of RVS?
Best defense is not making posts that need defending in the first place.
The second part is a good read though. I'm more probing than pushing
Around when did you realize my vote was more serious than an RVS?
Yes and no. I mean, clearly I'm not expecting scumYou to have some epic meltdown collapse over this, but I think I'm getting insight. You're also not the only person reacting
Any idea on alignment there?
Also, Vaimes, I appreciate you digging up a previous example for me, but you realize you had a good reason for doing it there? (Phone posting being more trouble than it's worth)
I thought the vote on me was RVS tbh, considering you didn't RVS either. Realized it was serious when you proposed a me/Silver team.
you were asked to provide sources in response to you saying you had done it before.
also I'll retract my earlier language--you did not say you do this "as town." However, the implication, to me, was that you have done this as town. and, logically, why defend yourself with it unless you had? Or, at least, as mix of alignments.
but the circumstances and mentality around it might be AI.
why did you make your question ordered like that ?
I hope you get something out of it, because I'm about over it and ready to spam about something else.
why are you jumpy ?
i think that is good .
Yeah, your posts make a lot more sense if you started responding seriously around there. And I feel it's a good sign if you thought I was joking at first, less likely to come from a guilty conscience
unvote vote vez
What do you mean by jumpy? Because in one sense I'm not at all, but in the other sense I definitely am and have barely started
you appear to be more nervous than is normal for this time .
"Bloodthirsty" is closer but it's not that exactly either. "Quick to pounce" or something maybe.
2) yes, that is something I do these days.
You didn't read like probing vaimes to me, especially as you seemed content with your vote on him until just recently.
KCC's timing on dropping her vaimes case is continuing to make me uncomfortable, but not enough to make up my mind. Still.
IS THIS MY LIFE NOW?
I'm wondering if I always used to read KCC as scum in the past...
I don't see them as distancing buddies.
These potshots feel pretty scummy.
If you do it as town, okay, but you're certainly not calling me a villager here, so why be coy about it?
you're also being a lot less fun than i was expecting.
Fun how?
Didn't really like the post where you unvoted KCC, but this post is pretty yikes.
It feels like you don't want to commit to anything, but keeping the possibility of KCC open even if you join another wagon. I'd say it also feels like distancing/bussing, but just a bit. As in this is scummy from any way you look at it, but it's a bit probable that is also on a buddy.
vote KoolKoal
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I was gonna ask Vaimes earlier if he thought KK would admit to having a better wolf game if he was a wolf in his first game back.
If anyone else would like to chime in on the subject I'm listening~~
Ok I figured out the problem I have with this post: it's that despite not actually scumreading Emiko, you make the point that 'TWTBAW is sometimes jsut a wolf'. I'm having trouble following that train of thought.
I agree that sometimes wolfy folks are just really really wolfy, but if you're not scumreading Emiko... why make the point that really wolfy people can just be wolves? You don't think Emiko is a wolf, so saying that feels out of place. Talk me throgh it.
I make this point because I'm getting newb vibes from him, so it's certainly more possible than not that he didn't think it through when he answered that. I therefore think that this is not a good reason to townread him at this stage. @Cantrip: You can weigh in here too since you made the same point.
I'm actually leaning town on Emiko for this post here; I believe it reflects that he hasn't really considered how he would interact with his teammates. Even if he is new, this is very likely a thing that would have come up in pregame scumchat.
Hi Silver. Two questions here: Do you think Vaimes kind of... countering your townread of him is alignment indicative of him? And why are you townreading me? I don't recall you saying. I'm pretty sure I made 4 posts as of now and three of them were voting Rhand in RVS for indiscernable reasons and a couple more posts not answering questions about it.
Saving this for later.
Hi KCC. I noticed you talked about vaimes and voted vez in this post. What's up with that?
My gut tells me something’s off with Vaimes, but I can’t put to words what it is.
@Vaimes: how is your confidence in your mafia game?
Second one is just pretty genuine wrt reads influencing other reads.
I made this whole post and im not sure whether its a case or just fanfic of silvers internal dialogue if he is scum that doesnt prove anything.
Its technically believable that town silver thinks of himself as a bear and thinks scumvaimes would be scared of poking him. I dont personally believe that to be the case but thats not really relevant. But if silver believes it and townreads vaimes for it and is immediately more interested in...
Uh
Disagree with vaimes premise but still encourage him to go after emiko instead of him
Without having any questions for vaimes because hes town
...
vote silver
Its like, "see mine didnt matter at all"
The whole thing is very not vezok.
Clearly not a thing that matters. Vaimes responded pretty well to the pressure. Silver TMIed him...
If vez is scum too also TMIing townvaimes theres probably a decent chance the people pushing him are all town and thats why they feel good about opposing
Gotta keep them options open.
Calling it now.
Silver/vez/rhand
Oh, I know, and that's just absolutely not how I approach the game.
I was content with my vote there, and then I liked his reaction, and then I found something more interesting
I voted Vez because I don't believe he believes the comments he made about RVS. I would have voted him earlier, but I wasn't quite done with Vaimes.
Rhand: confident enough not to panic, but not confident enough to win endgame if I had to be the one.