My two top scumreads at this time are silver and vezok
Lynching kk is... better than a no lynch i guess?
what is your opinion on silvercrys reads of people other than you ?
he doesnt particularly seem to have any?
Like rhand he was basically just reading as my buddy. Hes only talked about wisp/vez in terms of what scum tom does or doesnt know.
Apparently he has megs as scum but idr why.
Megiddo
• Fluff posts: 11, 83, 109, 173, 237, 270,304, 333, 573. Bringing it up because it felt a lot more frequent than Modern. Going through Modern, I see 4-5 ish that I would categorize as similar fluff in about the same number of posts (50). I guess that's not a huge difference, so maybe not significant.
• Did you ever figure out what you didn't like about the up to one business?
• 213 feels townier this time through. I still don't like the feeling I get of you trying to explain away behavior that you're getting scrutiny for, but I sorta like how you explain how you got where you did on Vaimes.
• Not sure what to make of your back and forth with Vaimes from 215 to 230, but I like the first line of 230. The second line, however, feels fake.
• General observation: you do a lot of re-stating/re-framing reality in your posts via putting words in others mouths: 151, 177, 235,
• 250 Null on Tom, gut scum on KK. Also, "surprise eyes emoji" doesn't communicate to me "I like you for what you posted/did".
• 463 If you're scum with KK, I wouldn't expect the part where you say you were just going to like the quoted KK post but then the Silver vote made you think twice. That's multi-level wine for no good reason since you were already gut-scumreading KK. But then you have an awkward insertion asking KK about Emiko being a new player...followed immediately by "oh I forgot I quoted this post from KK about KK thinking Emiko is new; I should ask KK about that AGAIN". Megiddo, walk me through why you didn't like KK's vote on Silver when you voted Silver in that same post?
• Agree with Emiko that the portion of 485 where Megiddo talks about KJ is a good post. The portion where he talks about Silver feels awkward/forced.
• In 869, why do you start off talking about being ok with KK and liking KCC's catch, repeat that you liked KCC's catch, but then highlight that you don't remember what the catch was? This read feels fake.
Votes Placed:
10-KoolKoal (RVS)
463-Silver (unreal thoughts, making up narratives, overreacting to single vote), feels mostly natural other than not liking KK's vote on Silver in the same post.
608-Rhand (in 463 you said you didn't like Rhand's pop-ins/they didn't make sense), not sure I understand this one since you've only ever mentioned Rhand in conjunction with bad behavior in 463, quoting one of Rhand's posts, then mentioning the pop-ins. Why switch to Rhand over Silver here?
Reads/Indications:
I felt like Megiddo wasn't really posting many reads, so I wanted to sorta compile what I felt were his definite stances. Not sure it did what I hoped it would do, but at least I feel like I have a better sense of where he's pushed/not pushed. I'll leave it here so I don't lose it and maybe I'll look back on it/update it if Megs flips scum.
KK-Scum: 143, 250, 463
KK-Waffle: 463, 869
Vaimes-Scum: 151, 154, 177
KJ-Town: 210, 485
KJ-Scum: 869
Tom-Null: 250
Tom-Town: 301 (over Silver), 869
Silver-Scum: 463, 485
Rhand-Scum: 463, 608
I plan to take a similar look at KK, but will probably have to wait until tonight/tomorrow.
Maybe wisp is a villager and tom is just trying to keep vezok open.
I really just want to lunch tom, that's probably not in the cards though?
Don't really want to lunch megs or Rhand, which leaves... KK, I guess, but I don't really want to lunch him, either.
Probably just need a full-on reread but I won't have time for that until sometime D2.
in this world am i trying to lynch townpeeked vez or...
Would i have to do anything to keep vez an option when its rescinded
Or...?
yes, and no?
Also I've been making these, like, reads lists that explain what I'm thinking about people? Pretty sure I have thoughts on everyone in the game out there somewhere.
At the moment... Wisp/Vezok still villagers because claim, Emiko still villagers/unpartnered/no agenda, Vaimes still Vaimes, KCC still villagery, possibly bordering on light blue now, Cantrip a bit more villagery than my last list, maybe into green? Rest are plausible wolves. KJ/Megs/Rhand/KK in roughly descending order and below null, you're the only real lean wolf, I guess.
There's probably "a" wolf in my town reads but that's a lylo problem.
Strong town-lean means you’re a strong lean. Not strongly town.
like, town and town-leaning are different categories. You’re close to the border, but on the town-lean side.
Ok, this makes sense. I'm a little weirded out that you don't have any strong town reads, but I'm pretty sure I've had D1's like that before, so eh.
Quote from KK »
On vezok: I guess that’s another option, but then I’m not actually giving the info on how scummy I feel he is, while saying cop-cleared* makes it obvious where he goes.
Cantrip: Your response to me in 550 looks like it basically concluded that it probably wasn't a thing. Just a bad tinfoil. While you hadn't dismissed it completely, you're not still pushing it. While Megs post was before that, his tone suggested he was more stubbornly clinging to it instead of just entertaining it as possible.
Aside, what's your take on Vaimes?
I had him as a town lean, but his posts recently have felt off, not sure why. Time permitting, I want to do a meta comparison between posts here and posts in Modern.
He "had" a counter wagon, yes, and now he doesn't, which is kind of weird even though everyone thinks he's a wolf.
Why is that weird to you? Especially given several people recently highlighting that they DON'T think he's a wolf, but also being ok with him being lunched (or highlighting that he's the best option, given the gamestate)?
@cantrip i’ll answer the rest when i get home and am on laptop, but for 869, in short, i was writing that post at least in part from memory. the catch stood out to me, but i mostly had memories of how i felt while reading it, not what specifically i was reading. like i said earlier i was reading the thread last night while falling asleep.
in the past hour i have actually gone back and read and even now i barely remember (the catch was a tone thing with the “flippant reply” but... that’s all i’ve got) but THAT reread got me thinking more about KK... so, i’ll do a deeper dive into that later today, along with your other questions.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
i was reading the game the first couple of days of my trip (it was great thanks for asking) and saw there was traction on a rhand wagon. i voted because i was scumreading him and because we hadn’t as yet really been able to get any real wagons going.
i’d have to look back and see the specific circumstances/posts that prompted me to vote right then, however.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Kind of? You haven't done the iso yet so I can't say how suspicious it is to me, but if e.g. you come out of the iso gunning for megs hard and KK gets lunched and flips wolf then... yeah that'll look pretty bad since I don't think they're wolves together.
I guess if you're a wolf I just told you what not to do, though. C'est la vie.
"up to one" - I haven't put any thought into it, no. But somebody's logic is off. shadow's or yours maybe, where you say that "exactly one" would be scummy, because it encourages chain lynching, but "up to one" doesn't—despite there not really being any less chain lynching potential there. I can't ask Shadow but I can ask you: why is "up to one" NOT a scum response?
(side note that silver asked a good question about it being a walkback)
((side note that i don't think anybody asked WHY emiko had that opinion))
235: am I really putting words in somebody else's mouth here tho
463: it's not just who you vote, but how you vote. like compare me giving you the eyes emoji (positive opinion) vs. me saying silver was a "lazy" vote (negative). to elaborate, while a vote on me is objectively wrong, the fact that somebody votes me isn't necessarily a bad action. town could vote me due to a real, honest read. i'm not saying i'm perfect at this but I think you can tell a lot about people by how they vote, and ofc. i only know my own alignment now, so that's easier to work with when it's votes on me.
that's a bit of a tangent, but to answer your question, I think the reason I didn't like KK's vote was because he threw in "I'm feeling pretty comfortable with tom's case here." right before voting rather than just relying on his own case. I always get suspicious when I see that sort of thing. Obviously I agreed with who he voted, but I didn't like how he did it.
(side note: If you want proof that I am using the eyes emoji the way I say I am, go look back in Modern. I did it there when Last made a post that I was interested in (specifically, casing Vaimes RIGHT as I was getting suspicious of him). I liked what I saw, which is the main meaning of EYES to me.)
i think that's it.
i dislike that you wrote much of that post addressed to me, but only certain parts of it were designed to be responded to.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Basically vaimes' base is the voxx/newcomb method of identifying people that you dont want to lynch and work from there (you know that thing townsilver does).
But (town)vaimes is too impulsive to actually work that way, at least early on. So you see a lot of shifting and no real hard stances (weirdest part of vaimes iso is 99% town on me, ftr) and that can describe his scumgame too with added phrases like "keeping options open" but i think its just
Light footed enough here that i think its probably town vaimes.
Holistically, scum vaimes is more plodding.
But ill say vaimes is someone i expect to have a real confident read on eventually and im not currently there dont lock it in based on me ill let you know when i should just be sheeped
what exactly is your read of me and my claim again?
i truly hope youre fpsing VT
You hope we didn't get two town clears? What is this mindset, tom?
what is this response? This just feels like straight up shade
Questionable post
eh. Regardless of his alignment he wants me to <do things that might get me lynched> real bad.
Dont think him tossing shade at me at every opportunity is actually AI anymore
But theres plenty of excellent posts to scumread silver for check my iso
But seriously though, I actually have no idea what you're doing if you're a villager. Sometimes you post stuff I agree with, or that I at least think is reasonable, but your major positions so far make literally zero sense to me. Like you thinking I'm a wolf because I wolf read you back for wolf reading me over NAI crap. Or you thinking Wisp was leaving seer cover.
And the only way I can wrap my head around it is that you're a wolf who either needs or wants to lunch, like, me+vezok+whoever is town in the PoE.
Not Voting (5): tomsloger, Vaimes, KoolKoal, Silvercrys3467, EmikoYuriemoto
Vote: tomsloger
hey silver, why are you voting Tom here? Ok AND Meg are on your would Lynch list. If the problem is no counterwagon line you said in an earlier post, why not vote Meg?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Not Voting (5): tomsloger, Vaimes, KoolKoal, Silvercrys3467, EmikoYuriemoto
Vote: tomsloger
hey silver, why are you voting Tom here? Ok AND Meg are on your would Lynch list. If the problem is no counterwagon line you said in an earlier post, why not vote Meg?
Not having a counterwagon isn't really a problem, it's "interesting", for reasons I told Cantrip about earlier.
I'm not presently voting Megs because I liked his posts on his return, I'm voting tom because he's the only flip I actually want at the present moment. The other wolf reads I'm at various stages of waffling on. I'll probably end up on one of the others by Friday but... basically we have a lot of people not voting and I wanted to vote my wolf read even though being on tom and being on "not voting" have approximately the same impact right now.
This day just made me think KK is more scum than ever. Nobody is really pushing anywhere. The scum are probably hoping for CW for KK so they can deflect.
The tom silver debate is still giving me pause. I still think tom is more scum than silver, but it's still weird.
Megs is also not impressing me, but at least his aggression is a a bit townie.
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Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
This day just made me think KK is more scum than ever. Nobody is really pushing anywhere. The scum are probably hoping for CW for KK so they can deflect.
your read is strengthening because nothing is happening?
what would scum be doing if hes town?
1) regarding the n0 peek, you’re talking about a game i’ve never seen before (before Modern i’d not looked at the mafia subforum for two years). i went back to look and yes you’re right that it was brought up in this game but... ok, i guess i was wrong.
how does me being factually wrong about the presence of a role in a different MTGS game make me scum?
you didn’t really question my stance on the role, merely my statement that i didn’t think i’d seen it before. i believe i said i was “withholding judgment on the n0 peek.” do you take issue with that statement? why?
2) do you know what pocketing is?
...it’s possible that i don’t (some of the new lingo still escapes me; old man meg syndrome) so i’ll tell you what i meant. Tom has done a good job convincing me that he’s town by appealing to me directly. i’ll give you one example: he made a comment to me about playing as scum that began “once you realize you can be wrong...” i forget the rest but i can pull it for you later. my point here is that the tone felt to me like he was talking to me outside of the game. psychologically that sets the mind at ease and makes me feel like tom is town, since why would scum so easily and freely talk to me about a topic like that.
(the fact that he was scum reading me is actually somewhat ironic there, and if tom is scum he has some balls talking about being wrong as scum to me that way lmao. but that’s outside of the scope here.)
is that what pocketing means to you? if not please clarify so we can discuss eye to eye.
anyway, i mentioned it because i only just noticed that it was happening, and i wanted to note it. i think tom can do that regardless of alignment but i would be remiss if i failed to say something that might be affecting my read of a player.
3) aight so you say i wasn’t doing a lot. i’d like to see some receipts on that, because i feel like i have been participating at a pretty reasonable level this game as far as asking questions and generating discussion. votes less so. please back this one up.
4. ok. where have you done this before?
5. one of the main stated reasons you are scumreading me is that i said Tom/Silver could be scum/scum. this would imply that you yourself don’t believe that to be true.
however, your readslist has tom/silver both neutral, and your vote has you on tom.
if your read on me were honest, i’d expect you to have put one of tom or silver in your leantown pile at least. given that you’re voting tom, that would be silver.
but he’s not; he’s in neutral with “need to reread.”
further, you aren’t answering why you are voting tom despite having moved him up to neutral with two stronger scumreads in your list, just saying “yep you’re right. i’m voting tom.”
if your posts earlier reflect this worldview just lmk, i’ll go look. but i’m basing this assessment on your presented t/s list.
Colored to make it hopefully less block-of-texty
1. You saying you'd never seen it before (tonally) implies you don't think it exists. It's obviously an expression of doubt. But, not only was it referenced multiple times this game that it happened, it was referenced by game name and that it was also a Bur game. If you had doubts, I would have expected you to follow them to that game to see what the specifics of it were. Not to just wave it off because of lack of firsthand knowledge.
Regarding withholding judgement, I'd say it's not super weird that you'd say you were doing that given you'd not expressed literal (nontonal) opinions about it. Whether or not you actually are doing that is up for debate I'd say, given the tone of the whole thing.
2. That's actually what I thought pocketing was when I first heard the word, but before hearing the actual definition. Pocketing (as I understand it) is when a person (possibly exclusively scum? I would think town would keep reevaluating) declares a townread on a person and has no real intention of reevaluating that read. It's just kinda there.
Given your definition though, do you think town!tom tries to I guess manipulate you into townreading him like that?
3. Not doing a lot insofar as not actively going out to get reads. Not a lot of questions. You're just kinda sitting back and letting reads come to you. Apperently that's normal for people like Vaimes, but for you I recall one of your smurfs Thirsty Schoolgirl or Sexy Schoolgirl or whatever made me fill out that whole worksheet to figure me out. I recall you usually being in the thick of things (when you can be, time permitting) but if you can't I'd expect some sort of compensation. You're not pushing, or pulling, or anything I really associate with scumhunting.
4. I can't remember specific games. I've done it... at least 4 or 5 times before though? This would be the first game hopefully I don't change my mind and decide he might be scum later in the game.
5. Incorrect. Saying that tom and silver aren't scum/scum just means that I don't think they're both scum together.
[TT]
[TS]
[ST] [SS]
I see what you're saying though... but I since I don't actually KNOW tom is scum, then I can't say that silver is town. I don't know either of their alignments for sure. And I haven't really READ silver because walls, so I can't make that determination based on behavior.
I actually forgot to unvote tom when I posted that list. That's just occasionally a thing I do. I think I mentioned my voting habits in the spec chat for Modern? Or if not, there were some voting mistakes I made in Modern that were the same.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Not Voting (5): tomsloger, Vaimes, KoolKoal, Silvercrys3467, EmikoYuriemoto
Vote: tomsloger
hey silver, why are you voting Tom here? Ok AND Meg are on your would Lynch list. If the problem is no counterwagon line you said in an earlier post, why not vote Meg?
Not having a counterwagon isn't really a problem, it's "interesting", for reasons I told Cantrip about earlier.
I'm not presently voting Megs because I liked his posts on his return, I'm voting tom because he's the only flip I actually want at the present moment. The other wolf reads I'm at various stages of waffling on. I'll probably end up on one of the others by Friday but... basically we have a lot of people not voting and I wanted to vote my wolf read even though being on tom and being on "not voting" have approximately the same impact right now.
Why not push others to vote then if that was your concern?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm not really concerned about "other people not voting".
I guess that's not quite true, like, I'm reading into it and I think it means something, but I don't really have a good direction to push them in other than tom and most of them aren't willing to vote him.
I'm not really concerned about "other people not voting".
I guess that's not quite true, like, I'm reading into it and I think it means something, but I don't really have a good direction to push them in other than tom and most of them aren't willing to vote him.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm not really concerned about "other people not voting".
I guess that's not quite true, like, I'm reading into it and I think it means something, but I don't really have a good direction to push them in other than tom and most of them aren't willing to vote him.
Hm. ok.
Saving this for later VCA stuffs
This is why he voted tom instead of using it productively.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm okay with the KK lunch in the "a bunch of people I think are town are saying he's a wolf and we should lunch him but I don't actively want to see his flip because I'd much rather see tom's" way.
Like, no one seems to really care if he lives or not and that's, uh. A thing that his teammates might want to do if he had any? But I don't have anyone better at the moment, at least not with convincing evidence.
Well, Vaimes took an interest in shutting down the wagon.
realtalk tho i try not to play super aggro anymore because i don't like how i always always slip into being a complete ******** when i do it. (see top quote in my sig--real quote from a mafia game!)
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Re: Cantrip's 875 (asking about my Last and KK progression):
For Last, I honestly don't know. Apparently his push on me was fake. I went from shadow scummy > oh shadow might be a PR > Last replaces in and claims PR > Last posts like scum so I doubt he's trueclaiming > Last admits he lied about his push on me. I'm just not gonna touch that toDay.
KK is kind of. Neutral read > everyone's talking about how scummy he is > meanwhile, I'm scumreading Rhand > Rhand gets asked to claim > KK wagon suddenly gets more votes almost right after > I'm not townreading 2.5/3 votes, so I side-eye it > now that I think Rhand is town and vezok is town, I don't know lol.
I'd rather just lunch Meg, scrutinize the Rhand wagon with those naked votes some more, and make all this toMorrow!Vaimes' problem.
'Kay, I'm reading KK's posts and not ~super seeing the opportunism, at least regarding Silver/tom. His Silver progression is weird if that's scum/town: townreads Silver, votes Silver, worries he's tunneling regardless of whether he's correct or not (this is something I think is really weird if he's scum), and then decides to ignore Silver.
The Rhand thing is eh. The only potentially opportunistic vote, but I actually like the reasoning for it.
His top scumreads are me/Last/vez, which isn't really a winning combination when you're widely scumread and trying to survive. Oh just read Rhand is there too but he didn't have him on the list for whatever reason.
Chastising Emiko for chasing the Last scumread is...somewhat hypocritical.
Think I'd still rather lunch Meg. Would kill KK to prevent a No Lunch, and it's probably gonna happen because deadline is tomorrow and a vanilla claim isn't the worst mislunch ever.
I was kind of reading his "worried he's tunneling" thing as an excuse to drop a dead wagon while leaving me open for a later vote because of how he was like "I still think I'm right but maybe I'm tunneling idk" because, like, if he still thinks he's right the unvote is weird.
But his play just kind of reads awkwardly and I think it might just be a playstyle thing? But also I think he's wolfier than megs is so I'd rather KK than megs right now and ~inertia~ probably means
There's also definitely not more than two wolves who were pushing me which is like, plausibly tom/KK given the timing of KK's vote but not tom/megs I don't think.
Like rhand he was basically just reading as my buddy. Hes only talked about wisp/vez in terms of what scum tom does or doesnt know.
Apparently he has megs as scum but idr why.
Would i have to do anything to keep vez an option when its rescinded
Or...?
• Fluff posts: 11, 83, 109, 173, 237, 270,304, 333, 573. Bringing it up because it felt a lot more frequent than Modern. Going through Modern, I see 4-5 ish that I would categorize as similar fluff in about the same number of posts (50). I guess that's not a huge difference, so maybe not significant.
• Did you ever figure out what you didn't like about the up to one business?
• 213 feels townier this time through. I still don't like the feeling I get of you trying to explain away behavior that you're getting scrutiny for, but I sorta like how you explain how you got where you did on Vaimes.
• Not sure what to make of your back and forth with Vaimes from 215 to 230, but I like the first line of 230. The second line, however, feels fake.
• General observation: you do a lot of re-stating/re-framing reality in your posts via putting words in others mouths: 151, 177, 235,
• 250 Null on Tom, gut scum on KK. Also, "surprise eyes emoji" doesn't communicate to me "I like you for what you posted/did".
• 463 If you're scum with KK, I wouldn't expect the part where you say you were just going to like the quoted KK post but then the Silver vote made you think twice. That's multi-level wine for no good reason since you were already gut-scumreading KK. But then you have an awkward insertion asking KK about Emiko being a new player...followed immediately by "oh I forgot I quoted this post from KK about KK thinking Emiko is new; I should ask KK about that AGAIN".
Megiddo, walk me through why you didn't like KK's vote on Silver when you voted Silver in that same post?
• Agree with Emiko that the portion of 485 where Megiddo talks about KJ is a good post. The portion where he talks about Silver feels awkward/forced.
• In 869, why do you start off talking about being ok with KK and liking KCC's catch, repeat that you liked KCC's catch, but then highlight that you don't remember what the catch was? This read feels fake.
Votes Placed:
10-KoolKoal (RVS)
463-Silver (unreal thoughts, making up narratives, overreacting to single vote), feels mostly natural other than not liking KK's vote on Silver in the same post.
608-Rhand (in 463 you said you didn't like Rhand's pop-ins/they didn't make sense), not sure I understand this one since you've only ever mentioned Rhand in conjunction with bad behavior in 463, quoting one of Rhand's posts, then mentioning the pop-ins. Why switch to Rhand over Silver here?
Reads/Indications:
I felt like Megiddo wasn't really posting many reads, so I wanted to sorta compile what I felt were his definite stances. Not sure it did what I hoped it would do, but at least I feel like I have a better sense of where he's pushed/not pushed. I'll leave it here so I don't lose it and maybe I'll look back on it/update it if Megs flips scum.
KK-Scum: 143, 250, 463
KK-Waffle: 463, 869
Vaimes-Scum: 151, 154, 177
KJ-Town: 210, 485
KJ-Scum: 869
Tom-Null: 250
Tom-Town: 301 (over Silver), 869
Silver-Scum: 463, 485
Rhand-Scum: 463, 608
I plan to take a similar look at KK, but will probably have to wait until tonight/tomorrow.
You were part of the wagon that pushed KK to claim, and now that he did you unvote because other people are scummier?
@KJ: do you agree that if tom is scum, LW has to be scum too?
Also I've been making these, like, reads lists that explain what I'm thinking about people? Pretty sure I have thoughts on everyone in the game out there somewhere.
At the moment... Wisp/Vezok still villagers because claim, Emiko still villagers/unpartnered/no agenda, Vaimes still Vaimes, KCC still villagery, possibly bordering on light blue now, Cantrip a bit more villagery than my last list, maybe into green? Rest are plausible wolves. KJ/Megs/Rhand/KK in roughly descending order and below null, you're the only real lean wolf, I guess.
There's probably "a" wolf in my town reads but that's a lylo problem.
*nods* Like I said, you're not me.
I had him as a town lean, but his posts recently have felt off, not sure why. Time permitting, I want to do a meta comparison between posts here and posts in Modern.
Fair.
Why is that weird to you? Especially given several people recently highlighting that they DON'T think he's a wolf, but also being ok with him being lunched (or highlighting that he's the best option, given the gamestate)?
in the past hour i have actually gone back and read and even now i barely remember (the catch was a tone thing with the “flippant reply” but... that’s all i’ve got) but THAT reread got me thinking more about KK... so, i’ll do a deeper dive into that later today, along with your other questions.
i was reading the game the first couple of days of my trip (it was great thanks for asking) and saw there was traction on a rhand wagon. i voted because i was scumreading him and because we hadn’t as yet really been able to get any real wagons going.
i’d have to look back and see the specific circumstances/posts that prompted me to vote right then, however.
Basically if he has partners it seems like they'd be doing ~something
I guess maybe they've given up on him/bussed him but I don't think his response to pressure has been bad enough for that?
Fair. I'm isoing Megs; no suspicion that maybe I'm a partner trying to push away from KK?
I guess if you're a wolf I just told you what not to do, though. C'est la vie.
"up to one" - I haven't put any thought into it, no. But somebody's logic is off. shadow's or yours maybe, where you say that "exactly one" would be scummy, because it encourages chain lynching, but "up to one" doesn't—despite there not really being any less chain lynching potential there. I can't ask Shadow but I can ask you: why is "up to one" NOT a scum response?
(side note that silver asked a good question about it being a walkback)
((side note that i don't think anybody asked WHY emiko had that opinion))
235: am I really putting words in somebody else's mouth here tho
463: it's not just who you vote, but how you vote. like compare me giving you the eyes emoji (positive opinion) vs. me saying silver was a "lazy" vote (negative). to elaborate, while a vote on me is objectively wrong, the fact that somebody votes me isn't necessarily a bad action. town could vote me due to a real, honest read. i'm not saying i'm perfect at this but I think you can tell a lot about people by how they vote, and ofc. i only know my own alignment now, so that's easier to work with when it's votes on me.
that's a bit of a tangent, but to answer your question, I think the reason I didn't like KK's vote was because he threw in "I'm feeling pretty comfortable with tom's case here." right before voting rather than just relying on his own case. I always get suspicious when I see that sort of thing. Obviously I agreed with who he voted, but I didn't like how he did it.
(side note: If you want proof that I am using the eyes emoji the way I say I am, go look back in Modern. I did it there when Last made a post that I was interested in (specifically, casing Vaimes RIGHT as I was getting suspicious of him). I liked what I saw, which is the main meaning of EYES to me.)
i think that's it.
i dislike that you wrote much of that post addressed to me, but only certain parts of it were designed to be responded to.
But also yes id rather be in no games with hard alignment checks
@Rhand: I'm... not seeing what you're seeing here. Explain it to me.
@Cantrip I also wanna look at posts from DitF for comparison to Modern to here. Time permitting.
Meg response post coming later.
I think hes town though.
But (town)vaimes is too impulsive to actually work that way, at least early on. So you see a lot of shifting and no real hard stances (weirdest part of vaimes iso is 99% town on me, ftr) and that can describe his scumgame too with added phrases like "keeping options open" but i think its just
Light footed enough here that i think its probably town vaimes.
Holistically, scum vaimes is more plodding.
But ill say vaimes is someone i expect to have a real confident read on eventually and im not currently there dont lock it in based on me ill let you know when i should just be sheeped
Questionable post
Dont think him tossing shade at me at every opportunity is actually AI anymore
But theres plenty of excellent posts to scumread silver for check my iso
And the only way I can wrap my head around it is that you're a wolf who either needs or wants to lunch, like, me+vezok+whoever is town in the PoE.
I'm not presently voting Megs because I liked his posts on his return, I'm voting tom because he's the only flip I actually want at the present moment. The other wolf reads I'm at various stages of waffling on. I'll probably end up on one of the others by Friday but... basically we have a lot of people not voting and I wanted to vote my wolf read even though being on tom and being on "not voting" have approximately the same impact right now.
The tom silver debate is still giving me pause. I still think tom is more scum than silver, but it's still weird.
Megs is also not impressing me, but at least his aggression is a a bit townie.
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what would scum be doing if hes town?
Colored to make it hopefully less block-of-texty
1. You saying you'd never seen it before (tonally) implies you don't think it exists. It's obviously an expression of doubt. But, not only was it referenced multiple times this game that it happened, it was referenced by game name and that it was also a Bur game. If you had doubts, I would have expected you to follow them to that game to see what the specifics of it were. Not to just wave it off because of lack of firsthand knowledge.
Regarding withholding judgement, I'd say it's not super weird that you'd say you were doing that given you'd not expressed literal (nontonal) opinions about it. Whether or not you actually are doing that is up for debate I'd say, given the tone of the whole thing.
2. That's actually what I thought pocketing was when I first heard the word, but before hearing the actual definition. Pocketing (as I understand it) is when a person (possibly exclusively scum? I would think town would keep reevaluating) declares a townread on a person and has no real intention of reevaluating that read. It's just kinda there.
Given your definition though, do you think town!tom tries to I guess manipulate you into townreading him like that?
3. Not doing a lot insofar as not actively going out to get reads. Not a lot of questions. You're just kinda sitting back and letting reads come to you. Apperently that's normal for people like Vaimes, but for you I recall one of your smurfs Thirsty Schoolgirl or Sexy Schoolgirl or whatever made me fill out that whole worksheet to figure me out. I recall you usually being in the thick of things (when you can be, time permitting) but if you can't I'd expect some sort of compensation. You're not pushing, or pulling, or anything I really associate with scumhunting.
4. I can't remember specific games. I've done it... at least 4 or 5 times before though? This would be the first game hopefully I don't change my mind and decide he might be scum later in the game.
5. Incorrect. Saying that tom and silver aren't scum/scum just means that I don't think they're both scum together.
[TT]
[TS]
[ST]
[SS]I see what you're saying though... but I since I don't actually KNOW tom is scum, then I can't say that silver is town. I don't know either of their alignments for sure. And I haven't really READ silver because walls, so I can't make that determination based on behavior.
I actually forgot to unvote tom when I posted that list. That's just occasionally a thing I do. I think I mentioned my voting habits in the spec chat for Modern? Or if not, there were some voting mistakes I made in Modern that were the same.
I guess that's not quite true, like, I'm reading into it and I think it means something, but I don't really have a good direction to push them in other than tom and most of them aren't willing to vote him.
Saving this for later VCA stuffs
This isnt a mafia specific term, we use the verb form more than anyone else but you can have a politician in your pocket irl.
Best way to pocket vaimes is *****post with him and make the thread more pleasant.
Last you gotta make feel valued.
Well, Vaimes took an interest in shutting down the wagon.
For Last, I honestly don't know. Apparently his push on me was fake. I went from shadow scummy > oh shadow might be a PR > Last replaces in and claims PR > Last posts like scum so I doubt he's trueclaiming > Last admits he lied about his push on me. I'm just not gonna touch that toDay.
KK is kind of. Neutral read > everyone's talking about how scummy he is > meanwhile, I'm scumreading Rhand > Rhand gets asked to claim > KK wagon suddenly gets more votes almost right after > I'm not townreading 2.5/3 votes, so I side-eye it > now that I think Rhand is town and vezok is town, I don't know lol.
I'd rather just lunch Meg, scrutinize the Rhand wagon with those naked votes some more, and make all this toMorrow!Vaimes' problem.
The Rhand thing is eh. The only potentially opportunistic vote, but I actually like the reasoning for it.
His top scumreads are me/Last/vez, which isn't really a winning combination when you're widely scumread and trying to survive. Oh just read Rhand is there too but he didn't have him on the list for whatever reason.
Chastising Emiko for chasing the Last scumread is...somewhat hypocritical.
Think I'd still rather lunch Meg. Would kill KK to prevent a No Lunch, and it's probably gonna happen because deadline is tomorrow and a vanilla claim isn't the worst mislunch ever.
But his play just kind of reads awkwardly and I think it might just be a playstyle thing? But also I think he's wolfier than megs is so I'd rather KK than megs right now and ~inertia~ probably means
There's also definitely not more than two wolves who were pushing me which is like, plausibly tom/KK given the timing of KK's vote but not tom/megs I don't think.