The only thing he lacks as mafia is consistency, and his pushes get stale, or just bad in general
I'm not making reads today only I won't Lynch and I am ok with lynching
With the first being, a long the lines of vaimes, Rhand, vezok
And the ok with lynching as it stands, meg and KK
I think your lone vote on my is wolfy, and it's not gunna go anywhere, but idk if that's just my bias or what, you aren't going to go anywhere with it, but here we are
The only thing he lacks as mafia is consistency, and his pushes get stale, or just bad in general
I'm not making reads today only I won't Lynch and I am ok with lynching
With the first being, a long the lines of vaimes, Rhand, vezok
And the ok with lynching as it stands, meg and KK
I think your lone vote on my is wolfy, and it's not gunna go anywhere, but idk if that's just my bias or what, you aren't going to go anywhere with it, but here we are
Remember the time when I would spam post in these games, yikes
thats not happening anymore, and Vaimes has literally 90 posts of nothing
Top posting Silver with decent thoughts from what I've skimmed is not getting lynched today
Got up like half way then gave up, recall Vezok and Vaimes voting me
Vezok is my night 0 blue check, dont really care why he is voting me
Vaimes had actual decent posts in Modern Mafia, my slot has done nothing AI, so his vote is garbage, and his comment on my entrance is exactly what I'd expect of wolf!Vaimes
vote: Vaimes
ill look into the top!trains when I feel like it
we should be voting Vaimes, "BuT hIs MeTa", k
@Vaimes
your vote being on shadow for like only 10 mins is even worse if that's true why did you say I rolled a scum slot again,
and why is your vote not still on me?
Heads up, if you're gonna keep acting like that, I will not engage with you. I don't play nice with people who blow smoke out of their ass.
dont spam the thread with useless posts then, did any of my responses tell you anything about my alignment?
and this is not meant to be shade, but there is literally nothing in your iso that feels like the vaimes I was a wolf against last game
also since you called out Vezok on his vote, what does him voting me mean? im trying to decide if your reaction to my claim is +town points, I do believe wolves are more likely to not second guess it
on a micro level I'd probably vote Rhand for his reaction, but Im stubborn, and I want to wait for more content from him
k, if you are town, its better for both of us, if you dont poke at me with useless posts, didnt care last game because I was a wolf, but now its just frustrating
aRe yOu MaD bEcAuSe YoU RePlAcEd InTo A wOlF sLoT aGaIn?
tell me what you expected to get from that, and what you actually did get from that?
town!Vaimes is more serious, and his posts have actual content hidden under all the mud, I dont see it here
I see someone trying to look town
Quote from Vaimes »
Oh also I had a weird epiphany regarding shadow while I was working today, so. Probably not scum.
ya that doesnt tell me anything about your unvote
even your original vote on Shadow had no reason, but again here we are with, "Sucks that you rolled a wolf slot again"
@Tom
going back to an old post #194
don't believe that is a real read
and in response to #633, "Clearly town to me", does not help me at all
so no, I don't think so given how I still don't really like Vaimes, and given that there isn't a reason to town read you
I am not baiting you, I am letting you know that I find the particular mindset behind that post scummy.
ok and I'm telling you it's NAI, you saw me do it as a wolf last game, but I've done it in pretty much everything single game I've played in where I got wagon'd for non-sense or called out for bad reasoning
Emiko, if Last is lying scum it will come out in the mass claim or when the real cop dies or something. Focusing so much of your attention on this is pointless, especially near Day 1 deadline.
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
I'd say based on his posts, Last is slightly more likely town than scum. Even if we forget the claim debacle in Modern, there's a real engagement in his posts that aren't usually there as scum. I will not help you lynch Last today.
Now that Rhand has posted some more, I can say this for sure: Rhand is town. I started having a few doubts because he started getting snipey, but then he posted some more and I can say for (mostly) sure that this is pure town Rhand.
Also, I was thinknig about it at work: Rhand/Tom are likely unaligned for 633:
Dont think the rhand wagon is too fast or spewy or whatever. First 3 votes are clearly town to me, and vez/megs are possible scum that im not seeing as unaligned with him anyway
This is a weird position to take on a scumbuddy. Letting people think that the wagon speed pushes him in the town direction would be playing to his wincon if they were buddies, and letting him hang here doesn't make tom look good so there's no reason for him to do it if they're buddies.
That said, Last was the one who declared the wagon fast enough to make Rhand town be likely. And last pushes it a little. So there's some scum equity for the two of them... but for that to be true I'd have to be wrong on both of them. I'm putting it in my notes nonetheless.
Now, on to reading some more.I'll probably make a t/s list before the end of the night.
Oh, @Silver: Why are you willing to lynch half the game right now? 5 people is a bit much for D1, isn't it?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I really don't see how KK can be town. KCC nails it with that analysis of the post.
It really feels like scum covering himself more than town making a sarcastic comment. There's one thing to be wrong on a read (I should know. I heavily defended scum tom in modern) and a whole nother thing to be wrong on how someone acted this game.
Like if I say "Meg has been a constant thread presence this last few days" I'm just wrong about the state of the game, not the alignment of people.
Kk scum also points more to megs scum as the way he was clawing for the Rhand wagon seems to imply he is defending someone.
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KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KCC - I've liked her poking around the game with her votes and her questions. She seems like she's pulling on threads and seeing what's there. She doesn't appear to be looking for weakness, which would be the scum version of this.
Rhand - I discussed this in an earlier post. I think Rhand is having pure thoughts, and his play is very much inline with what I know to be town Rhand.
Last/Vezok - Part of this is tone, but another biggish part is that he claimed immediately and it's less likely he's scum due to how Modern ended. Therefore, if Last is town, Vezok would be as well. I was actually lightly scumreading Vezok when Last claimed that peek on her. I wasn't getting really a contigious mindset vibe from her votes. So, if Last eventually renigs this, I'll reexamine that read.
Cantrip - His reaction to my reaction test (and further his telling me that his reacting that way was NAI) is why he is here. Even if what he said was true about it being NAI was true, he didn't have to tell me that. He also hasn't had any suspect pushes.
Emiko - Ok so she's not new. That maybe changes things? I mean, pretty much all her points are pretty shallow. KK said it really well at one point but I can't remember where that was. Maybe given more time she will come into herself. There's something about her that made me think she was noob town though, and maybe even if she's not new, something to do with the language barrier is mimicing that? So for now I'm gonna leave her here and reexamine later.
Silver - Honestly, I've been putting off reading him until Night because I feel like most of his posts are walls and I want to be able to fully digest them.
tom -I really, really think that I've caught tom right now. I think tom thorwing shade at me then not pulling the obvious threads available to him is domething he would really do as scum. But as I'm writing this, I'm struggling to come up with other reasons. It's for that reason I think this might be tunneling. And why I'm throwing him in the null pile until I can sort him out a little better.
Vaimes - Vaimes gets here because following an ISO of him, I'm not seeing a lot (any? really) scumhunting. Once I make know if that's normal for town!vaimes, this might change. My original townread of him was based on an epiphony he had about shadow which reminded me of something town!Az said about me in... Zero Escape? and I was trusting that was a towntell. Maybe that's bad.
Koolkoal - As an overall thing, I've disliked more posts than I've liked. One specific recent one was where he was scumreading Rhand for disappearing under pressure despite being told that Rhand had time problems. It felt like a post hoc ergo procter hoc situation. His claiming that Rhand started posting less because of the pressure specifically felt unfair.
Meg - Done mostly nothing. Also don't really agree with a not insignificant amount of what he has done.A specific thing is his believing that tom/silver could be scum/scum. He knows tom better than I do I think, he should know better.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
After a couple of performances, it seems like the people on the back-stage are dragging a massive hamster wheel to the stage. Normally, you'd be much more curious and would stay to see what on earth is exactly going on, but this time you are too busy with your own problems...
@KJ: If tom is scum, it almost has to be with last.
Dismissing the claim and calling him town at the same time is something scum wouldn’t do with town.
I don’t think LW is scum though, so that points to town!tom.
Right now I’m in a KK / Vaimes / ? world.
Cantrip and Emiko probably the best candidates to fill in the ?
I hope I can continue at least part of my reread before deadline.
Oh, @Silver: Why are you willing to lynch half the game right now? 5 people is a bit much for D1, isn't it?
Don't really think it's a bit much, no. PoE starts out pretty wide and gets narrower as we go, particularly if we lunch wolves and I can clear people from spew. I'm usually okay lunching anyone I'm not townreading on D1 rather than specifically pushing for one or two wolf reads because I don't think D1 has enough info to be very sure of alignments (and no one really listens to my reads anyway, which I've kind of just accepted at this point).
i’ll lead off by saying that i’m ok with a KK lynch. i like KCC’s catch.
i’m kind of against it because KK is making arguments that make sense, and seems genuine about his frustration.
specifically, the thing that kcc caught him on i liked. i forget exactly what it was? a tone catch on somebody.
unrelated: i’m withholding judgment on the n0 peek but i don’t think I’ve seen anything like that on mtgs before.
unrelated pt 2: tom has me in his pocket.
related to above: rhand you dropped suspicion of me at some point? why was that?
related to above: killjoy did you forget i was on v/la? can you clarify why you think I am doing nothing?
and, while you are at it, can you explain how you came to the conclusion that rhand is “pure?” you’ve said that same phrase twice and haven’t explained what you mean by it.
as long as i’m talking about this, the tom read is just... kind of funny. “i’m certain i’ve caught him, but i might be wrong so he’s null.”
another thing to point out here is that you say i’m scum specifically for raising the possibility of scum tom/scum silver but your reads don’t really reflect that you believe that isn’t a possibility.
so... now i want to reread killjoy.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Cantripmancer -> Feeling pretty town to me despite lack of posting. I like his content and intent to contribute a lot when he does show up. Strong town-lean.
I don't feel like I've done anything to warrant topping anyone's town list. I've barely posted more than the mod, and several of those posts were just apologizing for not posting. How in the world do I rank higher than anyone else?
Quote from KK »
vezokpiraka -> Scum leaning from extreme vote-hopping plus lurking, but cleared by Last until proven otherwise.
Just to be clear: you think Vez has played scummily, so your ranking of him as your "just above Rhand" is personal feeling, but you still wouldn't push to lunch because possible cop check?
tom -I really, really think that I've caught tom right now. I think tom thorwing shade at me then not pulling the obvious threads available to him is domething he would really do as scum. But as I'm writing this, I'm struggling to come up with other reasons. It's for that reason I think this might be tunneling. And why I'm throwing him in the null pile until I can sort him out a little better.
I get generally town vibes from your T/S list, and I like that you seem open to reevaluating one of your scumspects as a possible tunnel.
Quote from Killjoy »
Meg - Done mostly nothing. Also don't really agree with a not insignificant amount of what he has done.A specific thing is his believing that tom/silver could be scum/scum. He knows tom better than I do I think, he should know better.
I remember seeing something recently that specifically made me think my tom/silver scum/scum tinfoil was bad, but I think last you knew, I still had this as a possibility (and I think I was the one who first pushed it as viable). Why does it make Meg scum but not me?
If it were not for the cop check, vezok is probably under Rhand on that list, but yes, that’s what I mean.
That feels so counter-intuitive to me. If I had a suspect that I thought was scummy but there was a town-result on them, I'd put them at/near the top of my reads list and say "town for the check, despite being scummy to me" or somesuch. That said, you're not me, so eh.
Resolve the bolded sections for me?
Quote from KK »
As for why you’re at the top, you’re not that far up there, and my ranking of the townie side of the list is mostly gut.
Cantripmancer -> Feeling pretty town to me despite lack of posting. I like his content and intent to contribute a lot when he does show up. Strong town-lean.
Strong town-lean means you’re a strong lean. Not strongly town.
like, town and town-leaning are different categories. You’re close to the border, but on the town-lean side.
On vezok: I guess that’s another option, but then I’m not actually giving the info on how scummy I feel he is, while saying cop-cleared* makes it obvious where he goes.
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Not Voting (4): tomsloger, Vaimes, KoolKoal, Silvercrys3467
No counterwagon at all right now?
Mrgle
...no, but just before KK got to claim range, Megiddo was at 3 (you unvoted, Wisp went to KK) and Rhand was at 2 (KK unvoted). Are you saying you think the status just before the claim is significantly different from the status at the point of claim? I feel like there was a counterwagon (Megiddo), so you posting this almost feels like a misrep (even if it's factually accurate). What's your point/intent with this post?
Claim does nothing for me either way; I'm currently looking back at both Meg and KK.
Without snark: I generally see a player who unvotes directly after their votee claims usually being indicative of that player believing the claim (and not wanting to lunch because of it). Staying on KK wouldn't be detrimental unless you think he's town AND fear two quick votes ending in his lunch. This isn't to say you have to stay on him (or even should); maybe the meta you're familiar with tends to unvote while they ponder in this situation. But I saw your unvote and wondered what changed that makes you less interested in lunching KK.
Cantrip: Your response to me in 550 looks like it basically concluded that it probably wasn't a thing. Just a bad tinfoil. While you hadn't dismissed it completely, you're not still pushing it. While Megs post was before that, his tone suggested he was more stubbornly clinging to it instead of just entertaining it as possible.
i’ll lead off by saying that i’m ok with a KK lynch. i like KCC’s catch.
i’m kind of against it because KK is making arguments that make sense, and seems genuine about his frustration.
specifically, the thing that kcc caught him on i liked. i forget exactly what it was? a tone catch on somebody.
unrelated: i’m withholding judgment on the n0 peek but i don’t think I’ve seen anything like that on mtgs before.
unrelated pt 2: tom has me in his pocket.
related to above: rhand you dropped suspicion of me at some point? why was that?
related to above: killjoy did you forget i was on v/la? can you clarify why you think I am doing nothing?
and, while you are at it, can you explain how you came to the conclusion that rhand is “pure?” you’ve said that same phrase twice and haven’t explained what you mean by it.
as long as i’m talking about this, the tom read is just... kind of funny. “i’m certain i’ve caught him, but i might be wrong so he’s null.”
another thing to point out here is that you say i’m scum specifically for raising the possibility of scum tom/scum silver but your reads don’t really reflect that you believe that isn’t a possibility.
so... now i want to reread killjoy.
So, this is basically all wrong?
1. There WAS an N0 peek on MTGS before, in bur's other most recent game. It's being claimed as literally the same role as in Death in the Family. It was my role in that game, and that's been brought up a few times now.
2. How could tom be pocketing you when he's been scumreading you all game? Unless you're saying he is TMIing you somehow? If so, where?
3. I didn't forget you were V/LA, I was saying you hadn't done much as a general statement, not referring to just recent activity.
Like, even when you were here you weren't doing a whole lot.
4. I can jsut read Rhand really well. And I'm not gonna say specifically why he's town because then he'll know how I can read him. I'm wating for that game in the future when I catch him as scum and don't let go until he's dead. IIRC I've done this before as well.
5. I've said multiple times why I don't think tom/silver are scum/scum. My reads don't reflect that? I'm not saying that one of them is for sure scum (though, tom) so I don't understand what you're saying here.
I think this post by megs is bad. All my point here except 4 just don't reflect reality/have been explained before. I think I'd prefer Megs to KK today. In my notes, there are post(s) from KK that I've liked. Megs has none.
I am still voting tom though. That wasn't wrong. Unvote, vote megs
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Without snark: I generally see a player who unvotes directly after their votee claims usually being indicative of that player believing the claim (and not wanting to lunch because of it). Staying on KK wouldn't be detrimental unless you think he's town AND fear two quick votes ending in his lunch. This isn't to say you have to stay on him (or even should); maybe the meta you're familiar with tends to unvote while they ponder in this situation. But I saw your unvote and wondered what changed that makes you less interested in lunching KK.
1) regarding the n0 peek, you’re talking about a game i’ve never seen before (before Modern i’d not looked at the mafia subforum for two years). i went back to look and yes you’re right that it was brought up in this game but... ok, i guess i was wrong.
how does me being factually wrong about the presence of a role in a different MTGS game make me scum?
you didn’t really question my stance on the role, merely my statement that i didn’t think i’d seen it before. i believe i said i was “withholding judgment on the n0 peek.” do you take issue with that statement? why?
2) do you know what pocketing is?
...it’s possible that i don’t (some of the new lingo still escapes me; old man meg syndrome) so i’ll tell you what i meant. Tom has done a good job convincing me that he’s town by appealing to me directly. i’ll give you one example: he made a comment to me about playing as scum that began “once you realize you can be wrong...” i forget the rest but i can pull it for you later. my point here is that the tone felt to me like he was talking to me outside of the game. psychologically that sets the mind at ease and makes me feel like tom is town, since why would scum so easily and freely talk to me about a topic like that.
(the fact that he was scum reading me is actually somewhat ironic there, and if tom is scum he has some balls talking about being wrong as scum to me that way lmao. but that’s outside of the scope here.)
is that what pocketing means to you? if not please clarify so we can discuss eye to eye.
anyway, i mentioned it because i only just noticed that it was happening, and i wanted to note it. i think tom can do that regardless of alignment but i would be remiss if i failed to say something that might be affecting my read of a player.
3) aight so you say i wasn’t doing a lot. i’d like to see some receipts on that, because i feel like i have been participating at a pretty reasonable level this game as far as asking questions and generating discussion. votes less so. please back this one up.
4. ok. where have you done this before?
5. one of the main stated reasons you are scumreading me is that i said Tom/Silver could be scum/scum. this would imply that you yourself don’t believe that to be true.
however, your readslist has tom/silver both neutral, and your vote has you on tom.
if your read on me were honest, i’d expect you to have put one of tom or silver in your leantown pile at least. given that you’re voting tom, that would be silver.
but he’s not; he’s in neutral with “need to reread.”
further, you aren’t answering why you are voting tom despite having moved him up to neutral with two stronger scumreads in your list, just saying “yep you’re right. i’m voting tom.”
if your posts earlier reflect this worldview just lmk, i’ll go look. but i’m basing this assessment on your presented t/s list.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Isoing on mobile is hell. You can try switching to desktop mode and doing it the normal way but my phone likes to make it impossible to look past the first page of the search either way, so.
I'm okay with the KK lunch in the "a bunch of people I think are town are saying he's a wolf and we should lunch him but I don't actively want to see his flip because I'd much rather see tom's" way.
Like, no one seems to really care if he lives or not and that's, uh. A thing that his teammates might want to do if he had any? But I don't have anyone better at the moment, at least not with convincing evidence.
i keep coming back to the fact that he keeps making posts that look like insightful points, just slightly off beat. and then he gets voted for those posts.
i’ll elaborate when i’m home. but i want to explore that.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
He will make those posts as either alignment
I'm not making reads today only I won't Lynch and I am ok with lynching
With the first being, a long the lines of vaimes, Rhand, vezok
And the ok with lynching as it stands, meg and KK
I think your lone vote on my is wolfy, and it's not gunna go anywhere, but idk if that's just my bias or what, you aren't going to go anywhere with it, but here we are
why meg ?
i am voting for koolkoal .
this sequence of posts is the first thing that i do not like about lastwhisper in this game .
does anyone have a good reason why we do not lynch lastwhisper ? it appears that many players believe that his claim is fake .
And I'm not going to make up reads for you to be satisfied
But other than that, I have zero reasons to not lunch him.
I'd say based on his posts, Last is slightly more likely town than scum. Even if we forget the claim debacle in Modern, there's a real engagement in his posts that aren't usually there as scum. I will not help you lynch Last today.
Now that Rhand has posted some more, I can say this for sure: Rhand is town. I started having a few doubts because he started getting snipey, but then he posted some more and I can say for (mostly) sure that this is pure town Rhand.
Also, I was thinknig about it at work: Rhand/Tom are likely unaligned for 633: This is a weird position to take on a scumbuddy. Letting people think that the wagon speed pushes him in the town direction would be playing to his wincon if they were buddies, and letting him hang here doesn't make tom look good so there's no reason for him to do it if they're buddies.
That said, Last was the one who declared the wagon fast enough to make Rhand town be likely. And last pushes it a little. So there's some scum equity for the two of them... but for that to be true I'd have to be wrong on both of them. I'm putting it in my notes nonetheless.
Now, on to reading some more.I'll probably make a t/s list before the end of the night.
Oh, @Silver: Why are you willing to lynch half the game right now? 5 people is a bit much for D1, isn't it?
It really feels like scum covering himself more than town making a sarcastic comment. There's one thing to be wrong on a read (I should know. I heavily defended scum tom in modern) and a whole nother thing to be wrong on how someone acted this game.
Like if I say "Meg has been a constant thread presence this last few days" I'm just wrong about the state of the game, not the alignment of people.
Kk scum also points more to megs scum as the way he was clawing for the Rhand wagon seems to imply he is defending someone.
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Actually @tom: You were the one who caught him in that one game recently saying that exact thing. What do you think of him this game?
you talk to people like you are sure that they are town .
Rhand - I discussed this in an earlier post. I think Rhand is having pure thoughts, and his play is very much inline with what I know to be town Rhand.
Last/Vezok - Part of this is tone, but another biggish part is that he claimed immediately and it's less likely he's scum due to how Modern ended. Therefore, if Last is town, Vezok would be as well. I was actually lightly scumreading Vezok when Last claimed that peek on her. I wasn't getting really a contigious mindset vibe from her votes. So, if Last eventually renigs this, I'll reexamine that read.
Cantrip - His reaction to my reaction test (and further his telling me that his reacting that way was NAI) is why he is here. Even if what he said was true about it being NAI was true, he didn't have to tell me that. He also hasn't had any suspect pushes.
Emiko - Ok so she's not new. That maybe changes things? I mean, pretty much all her points are pretty shallow. KK said it really well at one point but I can't remember where that was. Maybe given more time she will come into herself. There's something about her that made me think she was noob town though, and maybe even if she's not new, something to do with the language barrier is mimicing that? So for now I'm gonna leave her here and reexamine later.
Silver - Honestly, I've been putting off reading him until Night because I feel like most of his posts are walls and I want to be able to fully digest them.
tom -I really, really think that I've caught tom right now. I think tom thorwing shade at me then not pulling the obvious threads available to him is domething he would really do as scum. But as I'm writing this, I'm struggling to come up with other reasons. It's for that reason I think this might be tunneling. And why I'm throwing him in the null pile until I can sort him out a little better.
Vaimes - Vaimes gets here because following an ISO of him, I'm not seeing a lot (any? really) scumhunting. Once I make know if that's normal for town!vaimes, this might change. My original townread of him was based on an epiphony he had about shadow which reminded me of something town!Az said about me in... Zero Escape? and I was trusting that was a towntell. Maybe that's bad.
Koolkoal - As an overall thing, I've disliked more posts than I've liked. One specific recent one was where he was scumreading Rhand for disappearing under pressure despite being told that Rhand had time problems. It felt like a post hoc ergo procter hoc situation. His claiming that Rhand started posting less because of the pressure specifically felt unfair.
Meg - Done mostly nothing. Also don't really agree with a not insignificant amount of what he has done.A specific thing is his believing that tom/silver could be scum/scum. He knows tom better than I do I think, he should know better.
After a couple of performances, it seems like the people on the back-stage are dragging a massive hamster wheel to the stage. Normally, you'd be much more curious and would stay to see what on earth is exactly going on, but this time you are too busy with your own problems...
KoolKoal (4): vezokpiraka, Rhand, KittyCupCake, EmikoYuriemoto
Megiddo (3): Cantripmancer, Lastwhisper, Silvercrys3467
Rhand (2): Megiddo, KoolKoal
tomsloger (1): Killjoy
Not Voting (2): tomsloger, Vaimes
V/LA: -
With 12 alive, it’s 7 to lynch. Deadline is on October 11th, 8.59 PM GMT (~3d 13h 20 min from this post)!
Dismissing the claim and calling him town at the same time is something scum wouldn’t do with town.
I don’t think LW is scum though, so that points to town!tom.
Right now I’m in a KK / Vaimes / ? world.
Cantrip and Emiko probably the best candidates to fill in the ?
I hope I can continue at least part of my reread before deadline.
i’m back.
i kind of groggily read everything last night, will post some thoughts and questions today.
i saw that deadline is Friday? lol
i’m kind of against it because KK is making arguments that make sense, and seems genuine about his frustration.
specifically, the thing that kcc caught him on i liked. i forget exactly what it was? a tone catch on somebody.
unrelated: i’m withholding judgment on the n0 peek but i don’t think I’ve seen anything like that on mtgs before.
unrelated pt 2: tom has me in his pocket.
related to above: rhand you dropped suspicion of me at some point? why was that?
related to above: killjoy did you forget i was on v/la? can you clarify why you think I am doing nothing?
and, while you are at it, can you explain how you came to the conclusion that rhand is “pure?” you’ve said that same phrase twice and haven’t explained what you mean by it.
as long as i’m talking about this, the tom read is just... kind of funny. “i’m certain i’ve caught him, but i might be wrong so he’s null.”
another thing to point out here is that you say i’m scum specifically for raising the possibility of scum tom/scum silver but your reads don’t really reflect that you believe that isn’t a possibility.
so... now i want to reread killjoy.
I think I've come to a conclusion, but I might as well wait on Vaimes's reread of me.
@mod: Any chance we could get a deadline extension? There's nothing in the rules covering them.
EBWOP: Oh, I'm at L-2. @Last Don't put me to L-2 and then immediately express interest in lynching someone else please.
I'll claim in 2 hours, or when Last tells me to claim, or when someone else tells me to claim.
While you're at it, talk through your KK progression (the other direction) from 617 (shade-slap trading) to 780, not feeling KK/wanting Rhand/Meg to swing instead?
I don't feel like I've done anything to warrant topping anyone's town list. I've barely posted more than the mod, and several of those posts were just apologizing for not posting. How in the world do I rank higher than anyone else?
Just to be clear: you think Vez has played scummily, so your ranking of him as your "just above Rhand" is personal feeling, but you still wouldn't push to lunch because possible cop check?
I get generally town vibes from your T/S list, and I like that you seem open to reevaluating one of your scumspects as a possible tunnel.
I remember seeing something recently that specifically made me think my tom/silver scum/scum tinfoil was bad, but I think last you knew, I still had this as a possibility (and I think I was the one who first pushed it as viable). Why does it make Meg scum but not me?
As for why you’re at the top, you’re not that far up there, and my ranking of the townie side of the list is mostly gut.
KK should claim I think, too close to deadline to put it off much longer I think
unvote
Resolve the bolded sections for me?
like, town and town-leaning are different categories. You’re close to the border, but on the town-lean side.
On vezok: I guess that’s another option, but then I’m not actually giving the info on how scummy I feel he is, while saying cop-cleared* makes it obvious where he goes.
Vanilla town.
Mrgle
Claim does nothing for me either way; I'm currently looking back at both Meg and KK.
Emiko, why the unvote?
we have two days .
i want to think more .
Without snark: I generally see a player who unvotes directly after their votee claims usually being indicative of that player believing the claim (and not wanting to lunch because of it). Staying on KK wouldn't be detrimental unless you think he's town AND fear two quick votes ending in his lunch. This isn't to say you have to stay on him (or even should); maybe the meta you're familiar with tends to unvote while they ponder in this situation. But I saw your unvote and wondered what changed that makes you less interested in lunching KK.
Aside, what's your take on Vaimes?
So, this is basically all wrong?
1. There WAS an N0 peek on MTGS before, in bur's other most recent game. It's being claimed as literally the same role as in Death in the Family. It was my role in that game, and that's been brought up a few times now.
2. How could tom be pocketing you when he's been scumreading you all game? Unless you're saying he is TMIing you somehow? If so, where?
3. I didn't forget you were V/LA, I was saying you hadn't done much as a general statement, not referring to just recent activity.
Like, even when you were here you weren't doing a whole lot.
4. I can jsut read Rhand really well. And I'm not gonna say specifically why he's town because then he'll know how I can read him. I'm wating for that game in the future when I catch him as scum and don't let go until he's dead. IIRC I've done this before as well.
5. I've said multiple times why I don't think tom/silver are scum/scum. My reads don't reflect that? I'm not saying that one of them is for sure scum (though, tom) so I don't understand what you're saying here.
I think this post by megs is bad. All my point here except 4 just don't reflect reality/have been explained before. I think I'd prefer Megs to KK today. In my notes, there are post(s) from KK that I've liked. Megs has none.
I am still voting tom though. That wasn't wrong. Unvote, vote megs
i reread koolkoal .
i would still be okay if we lynched him .
there are others that i want lynched more .
there are some that i want to reread .
He "had" a counter wagon, yes, and now he doesn't, which is kind of weird even though everyone thinks he's a wolf.
definitely 1 or 2 .
1) regarding the n0 peek, you’re talking about a game i’ve never seen before (before Modern i’d not looked at the mafia subforum for two years). i went back to look and yes you’re right that it was brought up in this game but... ok, i guess i was wrong.
how does me being factually wrong about the presence of a role in a different MTGS game make me scum?
you didn’t really question my stance on the role, merely my statement that i didn’t think i’d seen it before. i believe i said i was “withholding judgment on the n0 peek.” do you take issue with that statement? why?
2) do you know what pocketing is?
...it’s possible that i don’t (some of the new lingo still escapes me; old man meg syndrome) so i’ll tell you what i meant. Tom has done a good job convincing me that he’s town by appealing to me directly. i’ll give you one example: he made a comment to me about playing as scum that began “once you realize you can be wrong...” i forget the rest but i can pull it for you later. my point here is that the tone felt to me like he was talking to me outside of the game. psychologically that sets the mind at ease and makes me feel like tom is town, since why would scum so easily and freely talk to me about a topic like that.
(the fact that he was scum reading me is actually somewhat ironic there, and if tom is scum he has some balls talking about being wrong as scum to me that way lmao. but that’s outside of the scope here.)
is that what pocketing means to you? if not please clarify so we can discuss eye to eye.
anyway, i mentioned it because i only just noticed that it was happening, and i wanted to note it. i think tom can do that regardless of alignment but i would be remiss if i failed to say something that might be affecting my read of a player.
3) aight so you say i wasn’t doing a lot. i’d like to see some receipts on that, because i feel like i have been participating at a pretty reasonable level this game as far as asking questions and generating discussion. votes less so. please back this one up.
4. ok. where have you done this before?
5. one of the main stated reasons you are scumreading me is that i said Tom/Silver could be scum/scum. this would imply that you yourself don’t believe that to be true.
however, your readslist has tom/silver both neutral, and your vote has you on tom.
if your read on me were honest, i’d expect you to have put one of tom or silver in your leantown pile at least. given that you’re voting tom, that would be silver.
but he’s not; he’s in neutral with “need to reread.”
further, you aren’t answering why you are voting tom despite having moved him up to neutral with two stronger scumreads in your list, just saying “yep you’re right. i’m voting tom.”
if your posts earlier reflect this worldview just lmk, i’ll go look. but i’m basing this assessment on your presented t/s list.
Lynching kk is... better than a no lynch i guess?
what is your opinion on silvercrys reads of people other than you ?
Maybe wisp is a villager and tom is just trying to keep vezok open.
I really just want to lunch tom, that's probably not in the cards though?
Don't really want to lunch megs or Rhand, which leaves... KK, I guess, but I don't really want to lunch him, either.
Probably just need a full-on reread but I won't have time for that until sometime D2.
also thanks curse! < this one is sarcastic
i’ll be home with laptop in a bit so it’s fine.
Like, no one seems to really care if he lives or not and that's, uh. A thing that his teammates might want to do if he had any? But I don't have anyone better at the moment, at least not with convincing evidence.
i keep coming back to the fact that he keeps making posts that look like insightful points, just slightly off beat. and then he gets voted for those posts.
i’ll elaborate when i’m home. but i want to explore that.