tom has already decided how he's going to read me and is spinning a narrative to fit his read rather than finding the read that matches his perception of the game.
having some trouble buying you believe this since i hadnt even decided how to read you when i started writing the post and looking back i think it shows?
Im certainly biased though
Perhaps im overstating your read on vaimea but you definitely ignored what i feel was a pretty good opportunity to engage with him about why the emiko post was wolfy.
Perhaps your overall opinion on the concept of twtbaw explains the <encouraging vaimes to go after emiko> a bit though will think on it
doesn't really show, no
it looks like you tried to make it sound that way but then wrote the part at the end like you were asking a rhetorical question and not actually wondering
I wasn't trying to get a hard read on Vaimes and I'm still not so
tom has already decided how he's going to read me and is spinning a narrative to fit his read rather than finding the read that matches his perception of the game.
having some trouble buying you believe this since i hadnt even decided how to read you when i started writing the post and looking back i think it shows?
Im certainly biased though
Perhaps im overstating your read on vaimea but you definitely ignored what i feel was a pretty good opportunity to engage with him about why the emiko post was wolfy.
Perhaps your overall opinion on the concept of twtbaw explains the <encouraging vaimes to go after emiko> a bit though will think on it
doesn't really show, no
it looks like you tried to make it sound that way but then wrote the part at the end like you were asking a rhetorical question and not actually wondering
I wasn't trying to get a hard read on Vaimes and I'm still not so
ok so
How differently do you see me and vaimes pushes on you?
Is it player dependent or anything in the content?
Like obviously you cant think "he decided beforehand" is gonna convince anyone on me even if it were true because. Like. Deciding something before making the post about it is pretty common as either alignment thats the nature of forum over video or irl...
I kind of feel like shadow is just kind of driving by the thread posting lukewarm takes and not really trying to solve
Maybe it's just me
It's not really agenda driven it's just like, showing up to show up or something.
i dont disagree with the facts here but not sure how its relevant <applied early day 1 to someone that prefers scum and has no problem posting as either alignment>
How differently do you see me and vaimes pushes on you?
Is it player dependent or anything in the content?
Like obviously you cant think "he decided beforehand" is gonna convince anyone on me even if it were true because. Like. Deciding something before making the post about it is pretty common as either alignment thats the nature of forum over video or irl...
Yeah like
I was kind of treating Vaimes' vote as meme and then he said it was kind of red flaggy that I stayed on KCC 'cause he thought it was wolfy or whatever and I don't even think he's elaborated beyond that
And you spun this whole thread about how town!me would have engaged Vaimes over the "twtbaw" thing and how I tmi'd him or something when my townread was never all that strong
Those aren't even remotely the same read
I'm also not buying this "people decide what they're going to say before they post all the time" stuff, you know what I meant. It reads like you decided you wanted to wolf read me and then constructed the case backwards from there.
How differently do you see me and vaimes pushes on you?
Is it player dependent or anything in the content?
Like obviously you cant think "he decided beforehand" is gonna convince anyone on me even if it were true because. Like. Deciding something before making the post about it is pretty common as either alignment thats the nature of forum over video or irl...
Yeah like
I was kind of treating Vaimes' vote as meme and then he said it was kind of red flaggy that I stayed on KCC 'cause he thought it was wolfy or whatever and I don't even think he's elaborated beyond that
And you spun this whole thread about how town!me would have engaged Vaimes over the "twtbaw" thing and how I tmi'd him or something when my townread was never all that strong
Those aren't even remotely the same read
I'm also not buying this "people decide what they're going to say before they post all the time" stuff, you know what I meant. It reads like you decided you wanted to wolf read me and then constructed the case backwards from there.
idk man that still sounds pretty fake to me. how often have you seen me present a scumread that wasnt narrative-based?
Ftr the narrative was a thought exercise and what made me vote you was going back to that initial post i called "not the towny version but not the scummy version either" and changing my mind that it was the scum version and now ive already moved on to this reaction to my vote just being made up omgus because i called out <like 2/3s of the scumteam>
How differently do you see me and vaimes pushes on you?
Is it player dependent or anything in the content?
Like obviously you cant think "he decided beforehand" is gonna convince anyone on me even if it were true because. Like. Deciding something before making the post about it is pretty common as either alignment thats the nature of forum over video or irl...
Yeah like
I was kind of treating Vaimes' vote as meme and then he said it was kind of red flaggy that I stayed on KCC 'cause he thought it was wolfy or whatever and I don't even think he's elaborated beyond that
And you spun this whole thread about how town!me would have engaged Vaimes over the "twtbaw" thing and how I tmi'd him or something when my townread was never all that strong
Those aren't even remotely the same read
I'm also not buying this "people decide what they're going to say before they post all the time" stuff, you know what I meant. It reads like you decided you wanted to wolf read me and then constructed the case backwards from there.
idk man that still sounds pretty fake to me. how often have you seen me present a scumread that wasnt narrative-based?
Ftr the narrative was a thought exercise and what made me vote you was going back to that initial post i called "not the towny version but not the scummy version either" and changing my mind that it was the scum version and now ive already moved on to this reaction to my vote just being made up omgus because i called out <like 2/3s of the scumteam>
I write narrative reads all the time dude, it isn't about [the fact that there was a narrative]
The narrative didn't feel natural and I don't think those are real thoughts you had about me
It's not omgus, I don't think you suck I just think you're a wolf
I have *thoughts* on silver v Tom, but I want to stew a bit longer.
Anything you want to share now?
Eh...not really. It’s sort of a reminder to myself for later.
I like KK. I really want to read his cheek as townie and know I shouldnt.
@Silver: I feel like you’re dumping a lot of words and don’t really need that’s many. What’s your mood this game thus far?
Then why feel the need to tell us that you are thinking about it. I'm also having thoughts about everyone, but it's not required to say so in thread. It's kinda assumed.
Killjoy, Emiko mentioned their experience, didn't sound like a complete noob. Even as a noob, though, I wouldn't expect inexperienced scum to put forth a "1 in x/y/z" and then upon cross-examination go "or could be zero". Newer scum from what I've observed are more likely to amp up the possibilities of others being scummy than not unless they're receiving flak. Not a guaranteed read for me, but Emiko's continuing to make ok-ish-to-good posts.
Solvey Tom gets a slightly lesser townlean.
KCC mostly feels ok, but maybe a little more Business than last game.
I'm not sure I believe that Vez believes what he posted in 145 about RVS votes most often just being cigars.
Vez, I can't point to specifics, but I'm pretty sure I've seen players accurately catch scum from RVS votes/posts. You haven't?
Vote Megiddo for being overly open and helpful. I feel like town!Megs posts as he wants and damn the torpedoes.
Megiddo, what were your last two scum games? What are your thoughts on Tom? How about KoolKoal?
I guess it's possible and I've done it and have seen it done, but it's usually because they falter under some pressure, not just because of RVS.
Well, not really, just wanted to see to whom you responded, and how, before I said it. I'll take that as an answer of sorts.
I believe that vezok believes that RVS is pointless and usually ended by someone claiming, because usually the player ending RVS by claiming is vezok.
I think she's claimed on D1 in just about every game I've seen, and have no trouble at all believing that she thinks anything that happens before that is essentially random noise.
How differently do you see me and vaimes pushes on you?
Is it player dependent or anything in the content?
Like obviously you cant think "he decided beforehand" is gonna convince anyone on me even if it were true because. Like. Deciding something before making the post about it is pretty common as either alignment thats the nature of forum over video or irl...
Yeah like
I was kind of treating Vaimes' vote as meme and then he said it was kind of red flaggy that I stayed on KCC 'cause he thought it was wolfy or whatever and I don't even think he's elaborated beyond that
And you spun this whole thread about how town!me would have engaged Vaimes over the "twtbaw" thing and how I tmi'd him or something when my townread was never all that strong
Those aren't even remotely the same read
I'm also not buying this "people decide what they're going to say before they post all the time" stuff, you know what I meant. It reads like you decided you wanted to wolf read me and then constructed the case backwards from there.
idk man that still sounds pretty fake to me. how often have you seen me present a scumread that wasnt narrative-based?
Ftr the narrative was a thought exercise and what made me vote you was going back to that initial post i called "not the towny version but not the scummy version either" and changing my mind that it was the scum version and now ive already moved on to this reaction to my vote just being made up omgus because i called out <like 2/3s of the scumteam>
I write narrative reads all the time dude, it isn't about [the fact that there was a narrative]
The narrative didn't feel natural and I don't think those are real thoughts you had about me
It's not omgus, I don't think you suck I just think you're a wolf
Could be wrong, yeah, but don't think I am
and i dont think theres any way you reach that level of certainty off that.
I look forward to our thunderdome once people decide one of us must be correct!
So you just kind of viscerally feel wolfy but the mindset I see in your posts looks like aggressive town and I don't know if I should trust my instinct to wolf read you or my behavior read
Okay, I actually think you're trying to read me. But, yeah, you'll have a bit better luck looking at mindset here. I'm always going to be aggressive, that's just nai at all for me
I believe that vezok believes that RVS is pointless and usually ended by someone claiming, because usually the player ending RVS by claiming is vezok.
I think she's claimed on D1 in just about every game I've seen, and have no trouble at all believing that she thinks anything that happens before that is essentially random noise.
Wait. Wait. Wait.
Back when I played, we would force Vez to claim early because scumVez claims were a hilarious catastrophe and a free lynch. Did that actually just get incorporated into Vez's standard play?
I ***** posted with Vaimes some which you apparently took as TMI that he's town because you... thought I was strongly townreading him without trying to solve him
you "cased" me and concluded I was a wolf
I called you out because I was never strongly townreading Vaimes and your "case" felt manufactured to fit the read you wanted
And now I'm a wolf because I thought your case was manufactured and I voted you for it
now either
(1) you're a villager and you... got it wrong then doubled down on it for some reason
I ***** posted with Vaimes some which you apparently took as TMI that he's town because you... thought I was strongly townreading him without trying to solve him
you "cased" me and concluded I was a wolf
I called you out because I was never strongly townreading Vaimes and your "case" felt manufactured to fit the read you wanted
And now I'm a wolf because I thought your case was manufactured and I voted you for it
now either
(1) you're a villager and you... got it wrong then doubled down on it for some reason
Like if you're a villager I have no idea what you're doing
You're pushing my lunch when I'm 2nd from top poster over a mistake you made in assigning reads to me I didn't have
And you think it's wolfy that I think you're a wolf for doing that apparently
You think I'm second from top posting with Vezok and Rhand as my teammates, even, if your own posts are to be believed
That isn't a real thought you had tom
It just isn't
you treated vaimes like you didnt care about his alignment by encouraging him while disagreeing with the premise, i questioned, several of your next few posts were about vaimes being town after the fact. I saw this as attempting to explain away behavior after having been called out.
I posted about that, and tried to engage you several times on other things because engaging on this is likely useless and i would absolutely love for you to convince me otherwise.
Instead, you pushed back zero levels deep
I could not care less about your team or your postcount right now im saying i think youre a wolf period.
you treated vaimes like you didnt care about his alignment by encouraging him while disagreeing with the premise, i questioned, several of your next few posts were about vaimes being town after the fact. I saw this as attempting to explain away behavior after having been called out.
This is categorically false. I disagreed with his premise and specifically said I thought it wasn't wolfy, as well, I have no idea how you thought I was egging him on to attack Emiko or whatever.
I didn't even register your post as a "callout" that was super weakly phrased if that was what you were trying to do.
I posted about that, and tried to engage you several times on other things because engaging on this is likely useless and i would absolutely love for you to convince me otherwise.
You tried to engage me on exactly 0 things before voting. Zilch, zip, nada. You were either already convinced or you decided I was a good push. Still leaning the latter!
Instead, you pushed back zero levels deep
I'm closer to like, 2 levels deep dude. This isn't some superficial "oh, he voted me so he must be a wolf" this is a mindset -- a wolf mindset -- where you did ~nothing to determine my alignment and saw something you thought was "objectively wolfy" and safe to push and decided to go for it.
You can ignore my postcount all you want, that's fine, but the fact is I. do. not. believe. you.
I do not believe you think this reaction is not within my wheelhouse as town
I do not believe you think I should have tried to hard solve Vaimes at the top of page 2 when we were still transitioning from RVS and before ~half the players had more than one post
I do not believe you think I am reacting to your read at level 0
I do not believe these things about you, and evidence to the contrary they make you a wolf.
That would be equivalent to answering megs' question. I suppose I can't really not though.
I have this habit of getting too invested in games and using stuff I just flatly can't do as a wolf as a shield for my town game.
At this point in my career I'd rather get my first mislunch than make people read post after post of my AtE complaining about how I can't top post as a wolf, but old habits etc.
And I guess now that I've said that, I can say that tom has always had this weird paranoia of my really not that good wolf game when he's town and this isn't that, either.
Last time he made a read like this on me was Barebones and he was a wolf and I nailed him to the floor with it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Nothing hed even need to fake though
Unlikely aligned with silver or vaimes though
Tell me about emiko theyre the exact sort of player i read for completely irrelevant reasons
I'm determined to slice through this silly "tom is unreadable" aura.
doesn't really show, no
it looks like you tried to make it sound that way but then wrote the part at the end like you were asking a rhetorical question and not actually wondering
I wasn't trying to get a hard read on Vaimes and I'm still not so
Seriously: what are you eyeing?
What do you think of his "thing" in 195?
Right, long hiatus. Thanks for pointing me to Zero Escape, though not sure how much good it'll do me to look at comparisons from that long ago.
Why?
I think all my significant thoughts about Emiko are in-thread.
What's your impression on KCC so far?
Vaimes, I want to ask you a question but don't feel like I can yet. Remind me later.
Hi Cantrip, how do you feel about shadow right now?
Question for you: in general, how do you perceive Tom's confidence level as town, and how as scum?
Why are you asking about Shadow/what are your thoughts on him?
Maybe it's just me
It's not really agenda driven it's just like, showing up to show up or something.
How differently do you see me and vaimes pushes on you?
Is it player dependent or anything in the content?
Like obviously you cant think "he decided beforehand" is gonna convince anyone on me even if it were true because. Like. Deciding something before making the post about it is pretty common as either alignment thats the nature of forum over video or irl...
Have generally like pushes in the moment
And reading me town for being solvey is somewhere between ill advised and actively detrimental
I was kind of treating Vaimes' vote as meme and then he said it was kind of red flaggy that I stayed on KCC 'cause he thought it was wolfy or whatever and I don't even think he's elaborated beyond that
And you spun this whole thread about how town!me would have engaged Vaimes over the "twtbaw" thing and how I tmi'd him or something when my townread was never all that strong
Those aren't even remotely the same read
I'm also not buying this "people decide what they're going to say before they post all the time" stuff, you know what I meant. It reads like you decided you wanted to wolf read me and then constructed the case backwards from there.
Ftr the narrative was a thought exercise and what made me vote you was going back to that initial post i called "not the towny version but not the scummy version either" and changing my mind that it was the scum version and now ive already moved on to this reaction to my vote just being made up omgus because i called out <like 2/3s of the scumteam>
the first part is soft .
the second part intends to spread doubt .
the third part does not mix with the second .
the fourth part again intends to spread doubt and wolves sometimes question townreads on them .
the fifth part is not content .
the sixth part is not catching something real : the post that killjoy talked about is switch from vaimes to vez because vaimes appears better .
The narrative didn't feel natural and I don't think those are real thoughts you had about me
It's not omgus, I don't think you suck I just think you're a wolf
Could be wrong, yeah, but don't think I am
Then why feel the need to tell us that you are thinking about it. I'm also having thoughts about everyone, but it's not required to say so in thread. It's kinda assumed.
I guess it's possible and I've done it and have seen it done, but it's usually because they falter under some pressure, not just because of RVS.
Any other questions you feel I should answer?
------------
Meggido's playstyle irks me and it's making it hard to read him.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
I believe that vezok believes that RVS is pointless and usually ended by someone claiming, because usually the player ending RVS by claiming is vezok.
I think she's claimed on D1 in just about every game I've seen, and have no trouble at all believing that she thinks anything that happens before that is essentially random noise.
Its a slow burn
I look forward to our thunderdome once people decide one of us must be correct!
I don't believe you don't think I can get strong reads off of one post
Point is I do get strong reads off of few words/posts sometimes and you were just in a game with me where I did
Okay, I actually think you're trying to read me. But, yeah, you'll have a bit better luck looking at mindset here. I'm always going to be aggressive, that's just nai at all for me Probably, I know we won't really have claims and actions to work with later, so we need to squeeze everything we can from the thread
Wait. Wait. Wait.
Back when I played, we would force Vez to claim early because scumVez claims were a hilarious catastrophe and a free lynch. Did that actually just get incorporated into Vez's standard play?
I’ve not quite jumped into this game yet because of [redacted].
Number of posts or whatever is irrelevant
Because I actually have no idea what you're trying to say if it isn't:
"I don't believe silver's read on me is this strong after just that case I posted so he must be a wolf"
Bear with me here
Is that i (tom)
Dont think theres any way you (silver)
Reach that level of certainty that i am scum
Based on what ive said and what youve said about it
also how certain do you think I am that you're scum
I ***** posted with Vaimes some which you apparently took as TMI that he's town because you... thought I was strongly townreading him without trying to solve him
you "cased" me and concluded I was a wolf
I called you out because I was never strongly townreading Vaimes and your "case" felt manufactured to fit the read you wanted
And now I'm a wolf because I thought your case was manufactured and I voted you for it
now either
(1) you're a villager and you... got it wrong then doubled down on it for some reason
Or (2) you're a wolf and I'm right
gonna go with (2), evidence to the contrary
You're pushing my lunch when I'm 2nd from top poster over a mistake you made in assigning reads to me I didn't have
And you think it's wolfy that I think you're a wolf for doing that apparently
You think I'm second from top posting with Vezok and Rhand as my teammates, even, if your own posts are to be believed
That isn't a real thought you had tom
It just isn't
Sorry to disappoint, but I'm leaning towards you are both wrong
And as certain as stated
I posted about that, and tried to engage you several times on other things because engaging on this is likely useless and i would absolutely love for you to convince me otherwise.
Instead, you pushed back zero levels deep
I could not care less about your team or your postcount right now im saying i think youre a wolf period.
Come at me bro
I didn't even register your post as a "callout" that was super weakly phrased if that was what you were trying to do.
You tried to engage me on exactly 0 things before voting. Zilch, zip, nada. You were either already convinced or you decided I was a good push. Still leaning the latter!
I'm closer to like, 2 levels deep dude. This isn't some superficial "oh, he voted me so he must be a wolf" this is a mindset -- a wolf mindset -- where you did ~nothing to determine my alignment and saw something you thought was "objectively wolfy" and safe to push and decided to go for it.
You can ignore my postcount all you want, that's fine, but the fact is I. do. not. believe. you.
I do not believe you think this reaction is not within my wheelhouse as town
I do not believe you think I should have tried to hard solve Vaimes at the top of page 2 when we were still transitioning from RVS and before ~half the players had more than one post
I do not believe you think I am reacting to your read at level 0
I do not believe these things about you, and evidence to the contrary they make you a wolf.
I have this habit of getting too invested in games and using stuff I just flatly can't do as a wolf as a shield for my town game.
At this point in my career I'd rather get my first mislunch than make people read post after post of my AtE complaining about how I can't top post as a wolf, but old habits etc.
And I guess now that I've said that, I can say that tom has always had this weird paranoia of my really not that good wolf game when he's town and this isn't that, either.
Last time he made a read like this on me was Barebones and he was a wolf and I nailed him to the floor with it.