@Axel: I wanted a few more people to be able to react to the wagon before I said anything; it defeats the purpose of a reaction vote if I say it’s for reactions.
I would say, nothing more to see here except you burned me so badly before I now can never trust you again.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
So you didn't notice I was talking about you, then?
No, I tend to gloss over things explicitly directed at other players, especially without a quote to reference.
But now, I definitely have questions. Why were you asking him to explain a vote in RVS? If you were interested in hearing his reason, why did you give him a multiple choice test?
So you didn't notice I was talking about you, then?
No, I tend to gloss over things explicitly directed at other players, especially without a quote to reference.
There was a time when I would have scumread you just for that, but I've learned better.
Quote from KCC »
But now, I definitely have questions. Why were you asking him to explain a vote in RVS? If you were interested in hearing his reason, why did you give him a multiple choice test?
His vote, naked, specifically separate from his entry post, made me think it wasn't RVS.
(Tom,was it RVS? You never responded to my question, so I wasn't sure.)
The multiple choice thing was a) because I had noticed a few things about your posts that were pinging, and I hoped to get something from you by vaguely alluding to them. I messed up, though, as I figured my questioning a vote on you would get your attention, but I should have namedropped to make it obvious. B) By being vague, I also hoped to elicit a response from Tom, either "what are you talking about" or specific reasoning that I could examine. But he didn't really start playing until yesterday, and you didn't respond to it, either, so it felt like a missed opportunity that I wanted to circle back on.
I'm pretty satisfied with your response, though. Your focus on why I was asking Tom those things rather than asking me what I was alluding to gives me good vibes and helps assuage some of my concerns.
Quote from Axelrod on Townie Killjoy in Zero Escape Mafia »
I would have to say that overall this post is okay. What bothers me most about it is how long it is when so much of what you are quoting is, in your own words, NAI. It has the feel of one who feels obligated to comment on everything that someone else has posted, whether or not those posts were worthy of comment, and that feels slightly scummy. Like, scum who had given themselves this assignment might feel like they had to do it this way lest they be accused of not being thorough or complete. Whereas I feel like Town would be more likely to just cut to the relevant parts.
If I squint I feel like I'm seeing a little of this here, with Killjoy's effort to comment on everyone who was on his wagon, regardless of how much comment was merited, and ultimately making a bunch of NAI points. And his #177 response to Rhand is like something else he did that game.
In point of fact, it appears the main reason I got on him in that other game was role/claim-related, but his "style" just didn't help.
So, meh. The most suspicious thing now might be making that post and not ending with a vote for who you thought was scummiest. That's a fairly minor niggle for me.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Everyone has either glossed over or ignored the other point I made against Killjoy in the post where I voted him. In 52, he uses a assertive tone toward KCC when he says "walk me through this". He wants an answer. Then, when KCC gives him one just a few posts later, he doesn't acknowledge it and just agrees with her re:Fuwa, with a "toss this out and see if it sticks" vibe.
I just can't let it go; it's bugging me.....any reason you're saying "correct" rather than "good"?
No? Not especially. "Correct" is more pompous sounding, and I was being pompous (the exclamation point the first time I used it was meant to indicate that, but I guess I didn't use another exclamation point the second time).
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Everyone has either glossed over or ignored the other point I made against Killjoy in the post where I voted him. In 52, he uses a assertive tone toward KCC when he says "walk me through this". He wants an answer. Then, when KCC gives him one just a few posts later, he doesn't acknowledge it and just agrees with her re:Fuwa, with a "toss this out and see if it sticks" vibe.
I wrote up a response to this and deleted it ‘cause I didn’t think it was that important, but that is not really an assertive statement.
Everyone has either glossed over or ignored the other point I made against Killjoy in the post where I voted him. In 52, he uses a assertive tone toward KCC when he says "walk me through this". He wants an answer. Then, when KCC gives him one just a few posts later, he doesn't acknowledge it and just agrees with her re:Fuwa, with a "toss this out and see if it sticks" vibe.
I wrote up a response to this and deleted it ‘cause I didn’t think it was that important, but that is not really an assertive statement.
Well I didn't say the statement was assertive, but the tone was. I think he made it clear he was expecting an answer.
Everyone has either glossed over or ignored the other point I made against Killjoy in the post where I voted him. In 52, he uses a assertive tone toward KCC when he says "walk me through this". He wants an answer. Then, when KCC gives him one just a few posts later, he doesn't acknowledge it and just agrees with her re:Fuwa, with a "toss this out and see if it sticks" vibe.
I will agree that it appears Killjoy took what was clearly a joke vote somewhat seriously, though I would question whether this tone is as "assertive" as you are saying. Seems like it could be some genuine confusion going on.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Cantrip: Okay, answering your own question makes some sense if that was more directed towards me than tom, but yeah, if you want my attention, asking a question of someone else is probably the worst way. -Even if you had name-dropped me there, I doubt I would have responded before Tom did, since you asked him directly.
Anyway, I understand exactly what you were referring to now, and I'll be happy to discuss that later in the game.
Everyone has either glossed over or ignored the other point I made against Killjoy in the post where I voted him. In 52, he uses a assertive tone toward KCC when he says "walk me through this". He wants an answer. Then, when KCC gives him one just a few posts later, he doesn't acknowledge it and just agrees with her re:Fuwa, with a "toss this out and see if it sticks" vibe.
I wrote up a response to this and deleted it ‘cause I didn’t think it was that important, but that is not really an assertive statement.
Well I didn't say the statement was assertive, but the tone was. I think he made it clear he was expecting an answer.
I feel like you're getting hung up on the kind of thing I often get hung up on. I don't see as much aggression in 52 as you seem to, and KJ's followup in 59 would be a pretty bad "throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks" attempt since he first says he agrees with KCC's (scum-Fuwa) read, but then also says he's getting a "weird overly innocent tone coming from Fuwa". That...doesn't feel like scum trying to smear town!Fuwa (even with walk-backsies), nor does it feel like how scum goes about defusing suspicion on a buddy.
I just can't let it go; it's bugging me.....any reason you're saying "correct" rather than "good"?
No? Not especially. "Correct" is more pompous sounding, and I was being pompous (the exclamation point the first time I used it was meant to indicate that, but I guess I didn't use another exclamation point the second time).
@Cantrip: Okay, answering your own question makes some sense if that was more directed towards me than tom, but yeah, if you want my attention, asking a question of someone else is probably the worst way. -Even if you had name-dropped me there, I doubt I would have responded before Tom did, since you asked him directly.
Yeah, but dropping your name would at least have given my question a chance of response from you. As is, when I went back to revisit I was like, well no wonder she didn't respond; she probably didn't even notice it was regarding her.
Quote from KCC »
Anyway, I understand exactly what you were referring to now, and I'll be happy to discuss that later in the game.
Wut? Are you talking about my original question to Tom?
KJ, why did you feel the need to make post 58 when two players had posted within the previous half hour, and only a few hours had passed since the posts before those?
Everyone has either glossed over or ignored the other point I made against Killjoy in the post where I voted him. In 52, he uses a assertive tone toward KCC when he says "walk me through this". He wants an answer. Then, when KCC gives him one just a few posts later, he doesn't acknowledge it and just agrees with her re:Fuwa, with a "toss this out and see if it sticks" vibe.
I wrote up a response to this and deleted it ‘cause I didn’t think it was that important, but that is not really an assertive statement.
Well I didn't say the statement was assertive, but the tone was. I think he made it clear he was expecting an answer.
Statement, tone, whatever. It didn’t seem assertive to me at all.
Cantrip, that particular “deflecting” post really doesn’t matter. It’s not the cornerstone of why I think you’re scum. I just didn’t like it in the context of you responding to something of mine.
Cantrip, that particular “deflecting” post really doesn’t matter. It’s not the cornerstone of why I think you’re scum. I just didn’t like it in the context of you responding to something of mine.
Ok. The reason I keep asking is because it felt like an offhand comment attack, and didn't make any sense, so I'm trying to figure out if you're sincerely seeing deflecting there or if you were just trying to shade me. I'm...leaning town on you from how you're approaching KJ, though, so maybe not that big a deal, but...
Did you think BOTH lines of that post were directed at you? Because it was just the first one. The second one was an observation on the general gamestate.
I find myself disliking KJ for real after a reread, but I’ve heard that song enough for the time being.
Wait...this doesn't make sense. You jump on the wagon to get a wagon to analyze (ok), you unvote when KJ's at claim range because your intent wasn't to wagon KJ, it was to get a wagon (ok), but then you still think he's scummy, but would rather go tilting at someone who hasn't really posted much yet? If you think KJ is scum, why wouldn't you want to try and get him back to claim range (maybe citing why you found him scummy), even if he's been discussed a lot?
@grape: I like your reasoning here, but after rereading axel, I'm not interested in pushing that with you
Why not?
I liked the way he reacted to Vaimes.
He didn't accuse him of intentionally helping KJ, which would have been easy to do there if ax-scum vaimes-town. If ax/KJ-scum, ax also could have tied them together or just welcomed the help. If ax/vaimes-scum I don't see him calling it out either, not that way.
The post makes more sense from ax genuinely trying to figure out KJ.
Going to think more about the Ax/Vaimes worlds as I think they make sense, but Vaimes is kind of independently townie. I think Axel's instinct would be the same there regardless of Vaimes alignment as scum. Like he mentions in the post below the wagon was "weak" so I don't think scum!Ax would be basing his pushes on ties to that wagon regardless because that particular reasoning wasn't going to go the distance. His quick unvote is evidence of that. But now that I've said that I think I'm talking myself into your point that if as scum he knew it was weak he'd be making second order reads around the wagon...
So, the thing is, KJ, the wagon on you wasn't "bad." It was just weak, which is kind of a different thing. There wasn't much to it because there simply wasn't much that had happened in the game yet. It virtually had to be weak. I knew that when I voted, but I decided you gotta start somewhere.
I feel like you could/ought to have dismissed it with a waive of your hand and a roll of the eye (and at least some kind of superficial explanation for why you felt dking's RVS posts were Townie), but then you went and dug the hole deeper by not responding and instead promising a "full" response later (which is just always a Red Flag for me, especially when it would literally have taken two seconds), and then coming back with this huge dissection of your wagon which amounted to a virtually useless statistical analysis.
The entire point of running someone up quickly, especially with some weak reasoning - at least in my opinion - is to see what they will do. Secondarily to see how other people react to it. My feeling is generally scum will feel the pressure of it more than Town and be more likely to panic in someway. So taking a million hours off to compose your thoughts before replying is a scummy move. And that "analysis" of your wagon is another one.
Only reason I'm unvoting here is I feel the need to do some homework, in as much as I seem to recall being convinced you were scum before when you weren't and it was possibly for something like this, where your play pattern just didn't mesh with what I consider to be logical/normal behavior. I don't remember what game that was but it had to be one of the last two we played, so I'm going to do that.
@KJ: I’ll answer you later, my unexpressed thought will remain unexpressed for now though. I like the effort though, keep at it.
So, I had no problem with [unexpressed thought], and even thought it was elegant, in as much as I didn't want anyone coming in and pointing out how weak the wagon was before KJ said something about it. But now he's said something, so why is your thought remaining unexpressed?
His vote is in the sweet spot of opportunistic, overexplained, and easy.
I'll show you "overexplained"
A couple things: After KJ initially taking time to gather his thoughts what do you make of his relatively stream of consciousness back and forth with Rhand others. I agree the time to gather tell is good but it's usually followed by a wall and more silence. Not a string of interaction. Second why the unvote? I know you explained it but "I think you're scum but I've been wrong about you in some half-remembered game" isn't a compelling reason. Feels like a classic leave my vote for pressure while I investigate situation.
@DK if he felt you were too familiar with people who you theoretically didn't know due to this being your first game back. As in he felt self conscious about you having picked up some meta from day chat. Super flimsy but also not nothing.
@KJ: You declared DK town in post 99. His only posts were RVS in post 7 and a neutral ptap.
What made you wait until post 99 to voice your read?
I will get back to the other stuff later. I want to iso KCC now and then it’s naptime.
I'm not sure what you mean by "what made you wait."? Are you saying there was a post that saying that would have made more sense in? Because that's around the time I had the thought. And you didn't actually answer my question. I asked how your opinion has changed now that I've answered vis a vis my initial townlean on dk. Talk to me.
Another thing: I've explained why I didn't vote then. I will continue to not do so as long as I want to. I'm not gonna vote because "I'm supposed to" or whatever. Right now I want to figure out who on my wagon is scum, but I'm still in the process of figuring out who I want to push.
So, the thing is, KJ, the wagon on you wasn't "bad." It was just weak, which is kind of a different thing. There wasn't much to it because there simply wasn't much that had happened in the game yet. It virtually had to be weak. I knew that when I voted, but I decided you gotta start somewhere.
I feel like you could/ought to have dismissed it with a waive of your hand and a roll of the eye (and at least some kind of superficial explanation for why you felt dking's RVS posts were Townie), but then you went and dug the hole deeper by not responding and instead promising a "full" response later (which is just always a Red Flag for me, especially when it would literally have taken two seconds), and then coming back with this huge dissection of your wagon which amounted to a virtually useless statistical analysis.
The entire point of running someone up quickly, especially with some weak reasoning - at least in my opinion - is to see what they will do. Secondarily to see how other people react to it. My feeling is generally scum will feel the pressure of it more than Town and be more likely to panic in someway. So taking a million hours off to compose your thoughts before replying is a scummy move. And that "analysis" of your wagon is another one.
Only reason I'm unvoting here is I feel the need to do some homework, in as much as I seem to recall being convinced you were scum before when you weren't and it was possibly for something like this, where your play pattern just didn't mesh with what I consider to be logical/normal behavior. I don't remember what game that was but it had to be one of the last two we played, so I'm going to do that.
No, you're wrong. It was bad. Is 'bad' too subjective? The wagon on me is obviously scum driven. That's why I jumped into analysis mode immediately. It's likely not dk for a few reasons, most of which have been said. But then the next three people just /barned dk. Like... come on. This is obvious. Scum latched onto town dk and is trying to push me dead.
You're trying to say that my coming into the thread to tell you I can't have a full post ready in a timely manner is scummy because I was working at the time? Would you have preferred I just ingnore the thread until I could post? I wanted to engage the thread instead of just ignoring it. Also, I didn't take a 'million hours off". Stop with the hyperbole.
@Vaimes I recall you having a question about people not on my wagon that will have to wait until after work. I'm off tomorrow though so I don't have to go to bed super early and can answer this and whatever else I ddin't get to before work today.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Wait...this doesn't make sense. You jump on the wagon to get a wagon to analyze (ok), you unvote when KJ's at claim range because your intent wasn't to wagon KJ, it was to get a wagon (ok), but then you still think he's scummy, but would rather go tilting at someone who hasn't really posted much yet? If you think KJ is scum, why wouldn't you want to try and get him back to claim range (maybe citing why you found him scummy), even if he's been discussed a lot?
Why doesn’t it make sense exactly?
We have 10 days, and while I’m in favor of serious forming up and pushing claims earlier than the last 72 hours, there’s still a lot of time for town!KJ to show through and prevent a needless claim.
This is just so opposite to how I'm seeing things... I'm town reading more of your below neutrals than your town leans.
Give me reasons on a couple of KCC, Beeboy, DK, axel, and Cantrip.
Post a reads list for me first.
Quote from Killjoy »
The wagon on me is obviously scum driven....This is obvious. Scum latched onto town dk and is trying to push me dead.
I don’t think it’s obvious at all. It’s certainly possible, and it’s even probable that there is scum somewhere on that wagon, but I really don’t think it’s wise for you to get caught on this point.
Welp. There's no way I'm keeping up with this thread in any meaningful way until I'm not working past midnight every night to catch up from my vacation. But I saw 5 votes on Killjoy as I scrolled through, which is usually never a good sign, for whatever that's worth.
This feels like Az knows Grape is town. Or he has Einstein IQ.
No one reads a post like this, thinks all of that and then simply says “I think Grape is town”.
Hello, my name is Azrael. It's nice to meet you. I seem to recall we've been playing together for several years, but perhaps you've hit your head very hard on a rock recently?
but then in 59 he doesn't acknowledge her response and says he agrees with her. There is something off about the way he approaches Fuwa in 59 as well... it's wishy-washy and feels like he's tossing a softball out there to see if anyone else picks it up and runs with it.
Quote from "KJ" »
I actually kind of agree with KCC re: Fuwa, though not for her reasons (KCC: I recall your pronoun being female. Am I correct? It's been a while).
I'm kinda feeling a weird overly innocent tone coming from Fuwa... but I'm not sure if that's just normal for them.
Im 100% locked on cantrip town
Still lacking the tell ive been using to correctly read him, and the processy questions to rhand and shadow are just... real thoughts.
He will now fully embrace feeling pocketed by me and suspect me forever.
Cantrip's #38 feels like an overstretch. It's fine as it is, but seeing that he sees it as a shade, which is scummy, (though Shadow did say vez is more town for it) I'd assume he'd push for Shadow a bit more, but he did not. He unvoted for no reason either.
No comment on Shadow's answer in page 1. I have a feeling I can't read this guy.
Also Fuwa looks pretty good right now. I like that he's sticking to his guns on cantrip and actually enjoys having someone on his wagon. Idk why but it seems like a sincere thought that comes from town more often than from scum.
@vezokpiraka How did you get the impression I enjoy someone on my wagon? I enjoy creating one, but I don't really like people on my wagon. Wouldn't my vote on Cantrip makes it more likely an OMGUS? I agree I look pretty good , but I don't like your reading on me.
I'm kinda feeling a weird overly innocent tone coming from Fuwa... but I'm not sure if that's just normal for them.
I'm not sure on that either, but it's the only thing I've seen worth poking so far.
I'm liking KCC for town so far.
I also have a tugging feeling that Azrael is town.
Also, not a fan of Killjoy asking others about my playstyle instead of directly try to push/ask me things.
I like Vaimes in his interaction page 3. Not liking Cantrip response to it.
Not feeling Grape's reasoning at #178
I like Axel's #189.
Vote Grapefruit
1. I think KJ is scum and his defense of KJ reeks of scum. (I'm not voting KJ coz I have nothing to add besides vote, may vote EoD though)
2. He's voting for Axel, that I think is townish. I don't see how Axel is more opportunistic than anyone else on the wagon. Not being able to read Shadow is one thing, not trying is another.
3. He ignored me.
4. I don't have a fourth reason actually.
@Fuwa which part of my reasoning? On KJ or on Ax? Or both? How strong is your read on KJ? Feels like you were toeing up to a scum read without committing to it. And what didn't you like about Cantrip's response specifically?
Okay beat me to it. So you are scum reading KJ confidently then. And clearly disagreed with both my reasoning.
I'm not ignoring Shadow, I'm just not interested in voting him yet. His vote was bad too, as were most of them (rhand and tom) but axel's was the worst. Why do you think he's town?
As for ignoring you I didn't mean to, I just missed the chance to reRVS cantrip. By the time I got back people had been scummy.
@Fuwa which part of my reasoning? On KJ or on Ax? Or both? How strong is your read on KJ? Feels like you were toeing up to a scum read without committing to it. And what didn't you like about Cantrip's response specifically?
Both.
Kinda' strong? If I have to rate between 1 to 10, it'll be 8.5.
Hmm... Cantrip didn't deny he was scum. He pretty much only ask why is that deflective. It's not big, but it's something for me. It's like saying you're scummy for drinking rotten melon. And your response wasn't that you're not scummy, or that you're not drinking rotten melon, or that the melon is not rotten but instead "how is the melon rotten?". It's just odd to me.
That's fair on Cantrip, I just don't think it's that meaningful. It's like a 1.5 on the intensity meter for me while his more recent posts are like a 3 for town intensity (both scales out of 5).
I'm not ignoring Shadow, I'm just not interested in voting him yet. His vote was bad too, as were most of them (rhand and tom) but axel's was the worst. Why do you think he's town?
I agree with his #189 posts about KJ. I'm not a fan of unvote if you don't have a new direction though. Especially when you think your vote is already on scum.
I also like his later responses to Shadow, since I think the same way. What do you think of his explanation for the vote on and unvote on KJ?
Grape's dedense of kj seems more of a grape thing than a scum grape thing. Especially as I know he is prone to bussing and doesn't really stick his neck for buddies that much.
I still want kj dead. Absolutely nothing he said has made me believe he is town.
Az gets some mimus points for saying the kj wagon is bad just cause it was fast.
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@KJ: you were already seriously posting for a while and had commented on Fuwa’s entry, so I don’t get why you waited that long to declare DK town for his first post.
You asked me a ton of questions. Why are you now only following up on the question about yourself?
What is your read on me?
@Az: yes, I know how you play. I also know that a post like that is 100% in your scum range.
Can you point me to a recent-ish town game?
I would say, nothing more to see here except you burned me so badly before I now can never trust you again.
I'm interested in looking at fuwa and beeboy, when they return. I vaguely remember you being on the wordy side?
Yeah, I don't see the point of scum-shadow jumping on at 4 votes just to jump off before a claim, but it makes perfect sense as town.
Vote Count 1.9
Killjoy (5): dkingsland967, Rhand, Cantripmancer, tomsloger, vezokpiraka
Cantripmancer (2): Fuwa, Vaimes
Grapefruit21 (1): Sir Chris
Fuwa (1): KittyCupCake
shadowlancerx (1): beeboy
Syrenz (1): Azrael
tomsloger (1): Syrenz
Axelrod (1): Grapefruit21
Abstain (3): Killjoy, shadowlancerx, Axelrod
With 16 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch.
Day 1 will end on Friday, August 16th, at 11:59 PM.
But now, I definitely have questions. Why were you asking him to explain a vote in RVS? If you were interested in hearing his reason, why did you give him a multiple choice test?
Town
vez
Town lean
Cantrip
dkingsland
Vaimes
Axelrod
Above neutral
Tom
Rhand
Syrenz
Neutral/mixed
Azrael
Grapefruit21
Sir Chris
Fuwa
Below neutral
beeboy
KittyCupCake
killjoy
I find myself disliking KJ for real after a reread, but I’ve heard that song enough for the time being.
Vote BeeBoy
Hi! Can I get your strongest 2 reads both positive and negative? How has your read of me developed?
His vote, naked, specifically separate from his entry post, made me think it wasn't RVS.
(Tom, was it RVS? You never responded to my question, so I wasn't sure.)
The multiple choice thing was a) because I had noticed a few things about your posts that were pinging, and I hoped to get something from you by vaguely alluding to them. I messed up, though, as I figured my questioning a vote on you would get your attention, but I should have namedropped to make it obvious. B) By being vague, I also hoped to elicit a response from Tom, either "what are you talking about" or specific reasoning that I could examine. But he didn't really start playing until yesterday, and you didn't respond to it, either, so it felt like a missed opportunity that I wanted to circle back on.
I'm pretty satisfied with your response, though. Your focus on why I was asking Tom those things rather than asking me what I was alluding to gives me good vibes and helps assuage some of my concerns.
If I squint I feel like I'm seeing a little of this here, with Killjoy's effort to comment on everyone who was on his wagon, regardless of how much comment was merited, and ultimately making a bunch of NAI points. And his #177 response to Rhand is like something else he did that game.
In point of fact, it appears the main reason I got on him in that other game was role/claim-related, but his "style" just didn't help.
So, meh. The most suspicious thing now might be making that post and not ending with a vote for who you thought was scummiest. That's a fairly minor niggle for me.
No? Not especially. "Correct" is more pompous sounding, and I was being pompous (the exclamation point the first time I used it was meant to indicate that, but I guess I didn't use another exclamation point the second time).
Well I didn't say the statement was assertive, but the tone was. I think he made it clear he was expecting an answer.
I will agree that it appears Killjoy took what was clearly a joke vote somewhat seriously, though I would question whether this tone is as "assertive" as you are saying. Seems like it could be some genuine confusion going on.
Anyway, I understand exactly what you were referring to now, and I'll be happy to discuss that later in the game.
Yeah, but dropping your name would at least have given my question a chance of response from you. As is, when I went back to revisit I was like, well no wonder she didn't respond; she probably didn't even notice it was regarding her.
Wut? Are you talking about my original question to Tom?
Did you think BOTH lines of that post were directed at you? Because it was just the first one. The second one was an observation on the general gamestate.
Still don't know how it was deflection, but I'll let it go.
@Shadow: What puts Syrenz in the Above Neutral category rather than the Neutral/Mixed one?
Going to think more about the Ax/Vaimes worlds as I think they make sense, but Vaimes is kind of independently townie. I think Axel's instinct would be the same there regardless of Vaimes alignment as scum. Like he mentions in the post below the wagon was "weak" so I don't think scum!Ax would be basing his pushes on ties to that wagon regardless because that particular reasoning wasn't going to go the distance. His quick unvote is evidence of that. But now that I've said that I think I'm talking myself into your point that if as scum he knew it was weak he'd be making second order reads around the wagon...
@DK if he felt you were too familiar with people who you theoretically didn't know due to this being your first game back. As in he felt self conscious about you having picked up some meta from day chat. Super flimsy but also not nothing.
This is just so opposite to how I'm seeing things... I'm town reading more of your below neutrals than your town leans.
Give me reasons on a couple of KCC, Beeboy, DK, axel, and Cantrip.
Another thing: I've explained why I didn't vote then. I will continue to not do so as long as I want to. I'm not gonna vote because "I'm supposed to" or whatever. Right now I want to figure out who on my wagon is scum, but I'm still in the process of figuring out who I want to push.
No, you're wrong. It was bad. Is 'bad' too subjective? The wagon on me is obviously scum driven. That's why I jumped into analysis mode immediately. It's likely not dk for a few reasons, most of which have been said. But then the next three people just /barned dk. Like... come on. This is obvious. Scum latched onto town dk and is trying to push me dead.
You're trying to say that my coming into the thread to tell you I can't have a full post ready in a timely manner is scummy because I was working at the time? Would you have preferred I just ingnore the thread until I could post? I wanted to engage the thread instead of just ignoring it. Also, I didn't take a 'million hours off". Stop with the hyperbole.
@Vaimes I recall you having a question about people not on my wagon that will have to wait until after work. I'm off tomorrow though so I don't have to go to bed super early and can answer this and whatever else I ddin't get to before work today.
We have 10 days, and while I’m in favor of serious forming up and pushing claims earlier than the last 72 hours, there’s still a lot of time for town!KJ to show through and prevent a needless claim. Post a reads list for me first. I don’t think it’s obvious at all. It’s certainly possible, and it’s even probable that there is scum somewhere on that wagon, but I really don’t think it’s wise for you to get caught on this point.
Town
Grape
Vez, KCC, KJ
Vaimes, Cantrip
Az
BeeBoy, Tom, Shadow, Syrenz, Fuwa, Chris
Rhand
DK
Axel
Too many people I don't have a read on as of yet though a few of you I don't really expect to be able to read.
Hello, my name is Azrael. It's nice to meet you. I seem to recall we've been playing together for several years, but perhaps you've hit your head very hard on a rock recently?
Because I did it smoother.
Uh, bro, you're pulling an assertive tone from him saying: "Vez did what now? Talk me through this unvote->vote."
Eh? *Squints* Meh.
Why don't they add up?
Did anyone else on this wagon have anything more interesting to work with?
Still lacking the tell ive been using to correctly read him, and the processy questions to rhand and shadow are just... real thoughts.
He will now fully embrace feeling pocketed by me and suspect me forever.
No comment on Shadow's answer in page 1. I have a feeling I can't read this guy.
@vezokpiraka How did you get the impression I enjoy someone on my wagon? I enjoy creating one, but I don't really like people on my wagon. Wouldn't my vote on Cantrip makes it more likely an OMGUS? I agree I look pretty good , but I don't like your reading on me.
@KittyCupCake You don't like my fluff?
What about it don't you like?
@Killjoy Not sure how I can help here. I've been between "innocent town" and "blatantly scum" in my past games, I'm confused at what I am either.
I'm liking KCC for town so far.
I also have a tugging feeling that Azrael is town.
Also, not a fan of Killjoy asking others about my playstyle instead of directly try to push/ask me things.
I like Vaimes in his interaction page 3. Not liking Cantrip response to it.
Not feeling Grape's reasoning at #178
I like Axel's #189.
@KJ then you must have had a hint of who they scum is. It makes no sense to not push them.
1. I think KJ is scum and his defense of KJ reeks of scum. (I'm not voting KJ coz I have nothing to add besides vote, may vote EoD though)
2. He's voting for Axel, that I think is townish. I don't see how Axel is more opportunistic than anyone else on the wagon. Not being able to read Shadow is one thing, not trying is another.
3. He ignored me.
4. I don't have a fourth reason actually.
I'm not ignoring Shadow, I'm just not interested in voting him yet. His vote was bad too, as were most of them (rhand and tom) but axel's was the worst. Why do you think he's town?
As for ignoring you I didn't mean to, I just missed the chance to reRVS cantrip. By the time I got back people had been scummy.
Vote Count 1.10
Killjoy (5): dkingsland967, Rhand, Cantripmancer, tomsloger, vezokpiraka
Grapefruit21 (2): Sir Chris, Fuwa
Cantripmancer (1): Vaimes
Fuwa (1): KittyCupCake
shadowlancerx (1): beeboy
Syrenz (1): Azrael
tomsloger (1): Syrenz
Axelrod (1): Grapefruit21
beeboy (1): shadowlancerx
Abstain (2): Killjoy, Axelrod
With 16 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch.
Day 1 will end on Friday, August 16th, at 11:59 PM.
Kinda' strong? If I have to rate between 1 to 10, it'll be 8.5.
Hmm... Cantrip didn't deny he was scum. He pretty much only ask why is that deflective. It's not big, but it's something for me. It's like saying you're scummy for drinking rotten melon. And your response wasn't that you're not scummy, or that you're not drinking rotten melon, or that the melon is not rotten but instead "how is the melon rotten?". It's just odd to me.
I also like his later responses to Shadow, since I think the same way. What do you think of his explanation for the vote on and unvote on KJ?
I still want kj dead. Absolutely nothing he said has made me believe he is town.
Az gets some mimus points for saying the kj wagon is bad just cause it was fast.
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You asked me a ton of questions. Why are you now only following up on the question about yourself?
What is your read on me?
@Az: yes, I know how you play. I also know that a post like that is 100% in your scum range.
Can you point me to a recent-ish town game?