KJ calling Vezok's post a wolf post doesn't feel genuine, and he fails to realize all the things that make Vezok/Azreal more unlikely than not
also, it feels like a post where one would vote on, and giving Killjoy seems to not care about the posts he makes and how they go over to everyone else, I'd expect him to vote there
though if I was to isolate that Vezok post from the rest of the game, in a bubble, I do get the same sentiments as Killjoy
vote: Killjoy
yes, killjoy had a large train early on, but I don't really think it means that he can't be a wolf here
I've seen wolf trains rise early and die for the rest of the day phase, because everyone gets worried that they are wrong
KJ calling Vezok's post a wolf post doesn't feel genuine, and he fails to realize all the things that make Vezok/Azreal more unlikely than not
also, it feels like a post where one would vote on, and giving Killjoy seems to not care about the posts he makes and how they go over to everyone else, I'd expect him to vote there
though if I was to isolate that Vezok post from the rest of the game, in a bubble, I do get the same sentiments as Killjoy
What are you talking about.
It's a vote-worthy post but holistically it doesn't move the needle on vezok?
Killjoy not caring about how he's perceived is scummy?
You understand why KJ didn't like the post but are nevertheless scumreading him for not liking it?
ya I take it back, killjoy/chris is super unlikely
@vaimes
1. what?
2. I did not say that was scummy
3. This is a long string of Killjoy just making posts for the sake of making them, and the lack of vote proves my point
this is not just, "scumreading him because he doesn't like the post
I agree with the conclusion in isolation, but idk how you can fail to remember why Vezok is likely town at this stage in the game
Actually, I seem to recall I'm about to hit a post or two from him further down here.
Actually, Az does not address fuwa further down either. Which, I'm not sure how I feel about. If fuwa is a buddy, does he make an omission like this? He has to expect I'd follow up. Unless, he felt that first line was enough to brush me off.
Liars stick to their story, people remembering give variations.
I've got your back.
Wut? I don't track this read, from that post, at all. I originally thought this was sarcasm and was confused why there wasn't an accompanying vote and reread it a few times to see if I was misunderstanding something.
Based on the way Az tends to interact with others, I feel like a townChris would get a sharper tone here. This isn't nearly as telling as their other interactions though.
>pre rand join this game for cool roles thinking theme games are role madness for some reason.
>Get role pm [redacted]
>See non VT sample pm.
>Think of various modern decks and what roles they can be.
>Never be presented with any info to make me rethink a thought I never overly thought about.
Like to fully explain why I thought this was role madness I have to explain why everything up until this post did not make me even consider the option I was wrong. That's because I never really thought about why this game was role madness in the first place. Which isn't even a solid memory because again I wasn't thinking about it.
Hunh.
Okay, bee getting delayed makes sense. I don't think Az comments like this here on a scumBee either.
I also don't believe that Beeboy's statement was some kind of "slip" which happened from him being scum - and having a role - and seeing his fellow scum - also having roles - and then making an assumption based on that that the whole game was "role madness." That is an almost equally bad argument and I am now giving Cantripmancer the for making it.
I mean, it could be. Is that a surefire thing I want to base a lynch off of in its entirety? Nah. Does it make me want to reread beeboy more thoroughly? Yes.
Okay, this is definitely Az keeping his options open to pounce on bee.
@azreal
speaking of which, is there something you want from me? why exactly is your vote still sitting on me? make a case or kindly go else where
I cant be expected to evaluate what my past slot holder did or said, without it just being my own biased assumption
*Scoffs*
I’m pretty sure I’ve correctly read you in everything but twilight of secret agent Mafia.
Harrumph.
Oh, now that you’ve unvoted, join the Chris wagon. His Beeboy defense is garbage, regardless of BeeBoy’s alignment (and probably means Beeboy is town if Chris is scum). KCC has the right of it, and that subsequently makes me like her a bit.
@Chris: These are the posts from Beeboy you claim are guileless:
This was my response (which I stand by):
So tell me, why was Beeboy town at that juncture. Where are you really inferring that from. Break down some actual behavior and show me your thought process. (FYI: this is 100% about you, not him( don’t mistake my purpose.)
Also, get your vote off of me, go put it somewhere useful and think about what you’ve done. I want you to catch scum, don’t even care what your alignment is for that, so go do that.
I hate these two posts. Calls the b-boy defense garbage, which ok, maybe it is, but being a garbage defense doesn't mean Sir Chris is scum. Oldest trick in the book, to try to get townies to lynch people for something "bad", instead of scummy. And the emotional tone here just drips with the desire to character assassinate.
vote Shadowlancer.
There is no reason to bus shadow here, and not like this.
This whole thing is so much more valid for Azrael’s Grape read than it is for Chris’ Beeboy read.
Uh, except for my grapefruit read is awesome and actually correct, thank you.
Wait, I think Az is lying here. Well, okay, obviously about Rhands read being wrong. I guess he's also trying to imply that Bee is scun, which also likely isn't true. Nevermind, theres too much going on here to get anything more on grape.
I think I am team Sir Chris in Sir Chris v. Shadow, if only because this is funny and true:
And Shadow is a sneaky fellow who can never be trusted.
Also because it seems like the entire case I am reading against Sir Chris is that he got an early "too strong" read on Beeboy as Town. That is incredibly underwhelming. I don't exactly have a strong "Town" read on Chris or Beeboy for that matter, but I have no issue if he supposedly got one from what Beeboy posted. As someone else (Rhand?) said, it's better than the Town read Az. supposedly got on Grapefruit from what Grapefruit posted.
Et tu, Axelrod?
This feels manipulative. And a little too on the nose if buddies. Leaning townAxel
KJ calling Vezok's post a wolf post doesn't feel genuine, and he fails to realize all the things that make Vezok/Azreal more unlikely than not
also, it feels like a post where one would vote on, and giving Killjoy seems to not care about the posts he makes and how they go over to everyone else, I'd expect him to vote there
though if I was to isolate that Vezok post from the rest of the game, in a bubble, I do get the same sentiments as Killjoy
vote: Killjoy
yes, killjoy had a large train early on, but I don't really think it means that he can't be a wolf here
I've seen wolf trains rise early and die for the rest of the day phase, because everyone gets worried that they are wrong
Having a wagon dissipate doesn't mean town. You're correct. It's often a wolf indicator. But KJ is still town here despite that. Look at 255. That post is pure town.
KJ calling Vezok's post a wolf post doesn't feel genuine, and he fails to realize all the things that make Vezok/Azreal more unlikely than not
also, it feels like a post where one would vote on, and giving Killjoy seems to not care about the posts he makes and how they go over to everyone else, I'd expect him to vote there
though if I was to isolate that Vezok post from the rest of the game, in a bubble, I do get the same sentiments as Killjoy
vote: Killjoy
yes, killjoy had a large train early on, but I don't really think it means that he can't be a wolf here
I've seen wolf trains rise early and die for the rest of the day phase, because everyone gets worried that they are wrong
Having a wagon dissipate doesn't mean town. You're correct. It's often a wolf indicator. But KJ is still town here despite that. Look at 255. That post is pure town.
but why?
@kcc
I like the micro read of Cantrip there, but it doesnt really turn the needle for me
I doubt Azreal calls his own partner's reads garbage in the case of Shadow
and thats pretty much all I care about in that wall
Sad about dkings death. Felt townie to me, but the damn role sounded so scummy.
also I think this is actually just a scum post. He's sad about a townie dying and he felt so town but then he justifies whatever things he said about him to end it. Town can be sad at town deaths but this feels overexplainy.
I wonder how many scum will be on my wagon this time.
What are you even talking about? I have a straight record of calling dkings town. I have tried to persuade tom all day to not shoot dkings because I think he was town. It's not over-explainy as I don't have anything to explain. It's a simple train of thought post where I'm telling the town what I think about "the event". Dkings was really townie, but the way he came in, claimed back-up and left felt a lot like scum getting stuck in the headlights. I don't like that tom shot him, but I understand why he did it. My post could be re-interpreted as "I still think tom is more town than scum even with a shot on someone I thought was very townie."
Please explain the bolded and what you meant by it, because there are no posts where I justified anything.
I don't know about guys, but I'm not moving off KJ until he is dead. I will also probably hound grape tomorrow after kj flips scum.
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We are almost 2k posts in, why is your defense of KJ boiling down to “look at a post in the first half of the first day, that sole post makes him town”. Yes, I get that there’s more you’ve said, but you just consolidated the whole read to that one post; and you should know better.
We are almost 2k posts in, why is your defense of KJ boiling down to “look at a post in the first half of the first day, that sole post makes him town”. Yes, I get that there’s more you’ve said, but you just consolidated the whole read to that one post; and you should know better.
Well when people discount my supporting evidence from recent events as weak I'm going to go for the strongest evidence. I've been burnt too many times giving up town reads I was confident in because the game didn't stop.
I wasn't saying that post is the only reason he's town but it's the best.
@Wisp as for why it's all over the post. The suspicion about my defense. The weird contradiction in his KCC/syrenez reads that lead to donuts (scum would have pushed you after that 9/10). The breakdown of his wagon is fair and fearless. That post has none of the scum indicators you'd expect after a hard early wagon (nervousness, anti-spew, agenda, attempts to appease his wagon) and several strong town ones (paranoia about defenders, contradictions that aren't used as a weapon, and curiosity). I think he's continuing to be townie (see his catchup and interaction with you for example) but I've not been particularly worried since that post.
It literally cant be that easy but I am down for 2/3
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does killjoy/Chris even make sense?
@Chris
are you scum reading or town reading killjoy in the big wall post you quoted?
Super sincere question here... how can you ask that question if you read the post?
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KJ calling Vezok's post a wolf post doesn't feel genuine, and he fails to realize all the things that make Vezok/Azreal more unlikely than not
also, it feels like a post where one would vote on, and giving Killjoy seems to not care about the posts he makes and how they go over to everyone else, I'd expect him to vote there
though if I was to isolate that Vezok post from the rest of the game, in a bubble, I do get the same sentiments as Killjoy
vote: Killjoy
yes, killjoy had a large train early on, but I don't really think it means that he can't be a wolf here
I've seen wolf trains rise early and die for the rest of the day phase, because everyone gets worried that they are wrong
Having a wagon dissipate doesn't mean town. You're correct. It's often a wolf indicator. But KJ is still town here despite that. Look at 255. That post is pure town.
KJ calling Vezok's post a wolf post doesn't feel genuine, and he fails to realize all the things that make Vezok/Azreal more unlikely than not
also, it feels like a post where one would vote on, and giving Killjoy seems to not care about the posts he makes and how they go over to everyone else, I'd expect him to vote there
though if I was to isolate that Vezok post from the rest of the game, in a bubble, I do get the same sentiments as Killjoy
vote: Killjoy
yes, killjoy had a large train early on, but I don't really think it means that he can't be a wolf here
I've seen wolf trains rise early and die for the rest of the day phase, because everyone gets worried that they are wrong
Talk to me about why vezok is super unlikely.
Also you're agreeing with my interpretation of a post. That's literally a scumtell. (Only partially joking there)
Having a wagon dissipate doesn't mean town. You're correct. It's often a wolf indicator. But KJ is still town here despite that. Look at 255. That post is pure town.
Grapes continued defense of me surely makes him town, He has literally nothing to gain from it. I'm being so scumread right now that it'll only make him look bad. I feel like scumGrape would have given in to the pressure to scumread me by now.
Sad about dkings death. Felt townie to me, but the damn role sounded so scummy.
also I think this is actually just a scum post. He's sad about a townie dying and he felt so town but then he justifies whatever things he said about him to end it. Town can be sad at town deaths but this feels overexplainy.
I wonder how many scum will be on my wagon this time.
What are you even talking about? I have a straight record of calling dkings town. I have tried to persuade tom all day to not shoot dkings because I think he was town. It's not over-explainy as I don't have anything to explain. It's a simple train of thought post where I'm telling the town what I think about "the event". Dkings was really townie, but the way he came in, claimed back-up and left felt a lot like scum getting stuck in the headlights. I don't like that tom shot him, but I understand why he did it. My post could be re-interpreted as "I still think tom is more town than scum even with a shot on someone I thought was very townie."
Please explain the bolded and what you meant by it, because there are no posts where I justified anything.
I don't know about guys, but I'm not moving off KJ until he is dead. I will also probably hound grape tomorrow after kj flips scum.
Lets break down your post here:
You're sad that dkings got shot -> He felt townie, but his role claim was so scummy!
First, being 'sad about a townie death' almost never feels genuine. It's just not a thing that people usually feel strongly enough to verbalize.
As for the second bit, you weren't townreading dk as much as you seem to be implying. The only time you mention him is your most recent page of your iso, and I could only find one mention of him before this post. This was "He pinged me weirdly, but I think he's probably town. Therefore, you saying you thought he was 'really townie' feels like a lie.
Like, whats the point of this whole post? I guess what it does is defends tom's shot of dk... making tom/vez slightly more likely than they were before.
The bolded part was me assuming you had called him scum at some point and were using that line to justify it, but you didn't... which makes it even more weird.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Guys i made it through that chunk of shows.
I have an almost normal schedule for a couple weeks with, like, days off and proper amounts of sleep and *****
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@tom: Can I persuade you to move dkings down and KJ up and consider him a good vig target?
I guess it's fine that you totally ignored this post.
You are actually right and I haven't actually mentioned dkings all game which is weird cause I've been townreading him since the early game. I especially liked his first few posts.
The point of that post was that I didn't know what to say and just posted my train of thoughts. I can't say I was totally convinced dkings wasn't scum before, but he is certainly not my top priority for death.
Also by rereading my ISO I found that Az's attacked your wagon because it was fast. That early in the game that carries some weight. I also found out I thought grape was scum in the beginning, but he dipped down for a bit and I forgot about him.
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I'm going to do an in-depth of this day from the point Tom announced he was killing someone.
@Tom: I would like to know if you had the ability to Day-kill on D1. Thank you very much.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@cantrip and last im traveling through tomorrow evening so i’m not going to go into depth rn but i already laid out my thoughts on the things we were talking about. if you have specific questions i can clarify sure but it feels like neither of you really read what i said.
So you DO think Az was coaching Syrenz. Agree to disagree, I guess.
thinking a bit more here, why am i on your vig shortlist exactly?
Mostly for Beeboy's posts, especially the way he treated Az's claim (being ok with it, then casting shade on it when the wagon didn't dissolve, then missing the Tron land drop when he should have been looking for it). Your posts have been pretty straightforward, which in and of itself is ok verging on mildly concerning (only partially kidding).
Also, I am buying a Casper! It's the hybrid version. I think they were just in the right place at the right time though and I was too exhausted to do any more shopping so I just said, fine, I'll take this one. It does seem nice though. We shall see.
I'd appreciate hearing from you on this choice, as we'll likely be staring down a similar barrel soon and have been considering Casper or Purple.
Scum Tom doesn't make a lot of sense equity wise there, especially with me by the way. If you are saying tom's shot makes him lose points but are still voting him I don't understand. The play there for a scum Tom is to keep moving along and forcing claims. Backup is not an ideal prize for a scum team to shoot with their vig and the decision was made rashly. If you are going to fake a rash decision on a member of town I find it very likely he could have found a softer and stronger target than dkings, even if you live in a world where I am scum.
It didn't have a good result but I don't see the scum angle for shooting the backup.
This is a very insightful post. Slightly unnerved, as I'm wondering if scum!you actually makes this post with town!Tom. A Tom pivot here would be an easy direction to push in, and scum!you pointing this out makes no sense if Tom's town. Is this a "both Chris and Tom scum or neither" indicator?
Along those lines, mild +town to Tom for the GINORMOUS lack of thread activity between 1773 and 1776. Tom asks for thoughts on a votal in 1773, then highlights a few other votals in 1774. Chris posts 1775 a little while later. And then there's almost 21 hours until 1776. If Tom were scum, I'd think a buddy would try to jumpstart conversation, probably in the direction Tom wanted it to go in when he posted that query.
On the flip side, Tom, why didn't you give DK a chance to post more before firing?
Also Grapefruit why are you voting for Meg as a starting point when he has already claimed? What was your aim with that vote?
To pressure him and start sorting the fuwa wagon/nowhereland votes, I hadn't seen the claim.
Wut? How had you not seen the claim by the time you made the post before this one?
Grape, not only have you strongly white knighted KJ, but I feel like you've almost completely put me on ignore unless I ask you a question. You don't have any questions or concerns about/for me? I'm just that town to you?
@tom how did you get the shot then if you didn't have it D1?
@Cantrip because I hadn't (and still haven't read everything since D2 started), when I made the post in question I had only read roughly the last 15 posts and KJ's ISO. I haven't asked you anything because in the parts of the game I've read you have no presence. I have no idea if that's actually true though.
On the mattress front I haven't shopped around but my podcast bubble has good things to say about Helix mattresses.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Hrm. It might be a point in Tom's favor that Az apparently also had "delayed" abilities. If Tom were scum that would make two scum with similar "disadvantages." Not entirely sure.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Tom
shoot Shadow plz, he got the benefit of the top post day 1, and this micro read trumps everything he's done on a macro level, ill will eat a sock if he's town after making that *****ty post
Grape is town
Vaimes is town
Kcc is town
ill work out everyone else at one point
gunna go back to reading, also good luck lynching me, I am unlynchable
I would be interested in hearing from someone with more experience with Last if he always plays with such (false?) bravado when he is scum? This is generally not the kind of thing scum say about themselves, but I know it will vary from person to person.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
/shrug
I skimmed, I thought they were more fleshed out then they were, I already went back through his iso, and I realized I was mistaken
clearly posting during my v/la was a mistake
its also doubtful that fuwa lied about her claim, from my role, and my role, her claim, and azreals I think its clear that the most if not all power roles are a combination of 3 abilities
though im not claiming till I get to L2 (claiming almost guarantees I die to the KP), I'm not a bad player as scum or town, I am just very headstrong about what I believe
I do not understand what "KP" stands for here?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Cantrip because I hadn't (and still haven't read everything since D2 started), when I made the post in question I had only read roughly the last 15 posts and KJ's ISO. I haven't asked you anything because in the parts of the game I've read you have no presence. I have no idea if that's actually true though.
Why are you tossing votes around so casually if you haven't read the entire thread?
Hrm. It might be a point in Tom's favor that Az apparently also had "delayed" abilities. If Tom were scum that would make two scum with similar "disadvantages." Not entirely sure.
I wasn't sure if Tom had to announce the dayvig (I'm guessing he did), but if he did, that would also be two public display elements. Depending on the setup, I could see that also being a point in Tom's favor. I still feel like he needs to be sorted, though.
@Cantrip: I’d vote you for motivation sake, but I like where my vote is right now.
Just with my mod gaming hat on for a second; having a daykill day 1 runs the risk of destroying someone’s ability to play at all, so I have no general qualms with Tom not being able to use it until today (didn’t say this earlier cause I wanted Tom to say something first).
@Tom: did you have to do anything or did the creature just “get played” automatically?
Vote KJ and move the game along. Come on Cantrip. Actually, why are you not voting? If you are unmotivated then just vote for the biggest wagon to move the game along or debate why both wagons shouldn't exist.
That last post by Cantrip is just so weird.
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@Cantrip: I’d vote you for motivation sake, but I like where my vote is right now.
Just with my mod gaming hat on for a second; having a daykill day 1 runs the risk of destroying someone’s ability to play at all, so I have no general qualms with Tom not being able to use it until today (didn’t say this earlier cause I wanted Tom to say something first).
@Tom: did you have to do anything or did the creature just “get played” automatically?
thats just flavor
Mechanically its just "starting day 2"
Actually the only ~creature mentioned in my PM is inkmoth nexus but then the mana doesnt work for turn 2 lol
Vote KJ and move the game along. Come on Cantrip. Actually, why are you not voting? If you are unmotivated then just vote for the biggest wagon to move the game along or debate why both wagons shouldn't exist.
That last post by Cantrip is just so weird.
I...am voting? For Grape?
I think KJ's town, so not voting there. Could possibly vote Chris. Might vote Tom.
I’m back to wanting Fuwa dead. I don’t recall if she’s V/LA again but she’s completely vanished.
Proph said ~3 days ago that she was prodded, but then the dayvig occurred, so I don't know if she gets additional grace or if she's staring down replacement/modkill.
@axelrod
I can answer you, the answer is yes, I would as either alignment
and ur second question, KP stands for kill power, its another way of stating the factional kill, which is used in the video mafia games I play
still not voting Tom :thumbs_up:
I wouldnt hate voting Fuwa just for information, ohh wait yes I would
, but the whole being inactive is just NAI
@vaimes
talk to me about your Tom scum read
@Cantrip
as much as I enjoy town reads, it's not uncommon for people to just claim I am townie for almost nothing but my overall tone, what tipped the boat for you?
@killjoy
Vezok is super unlikely because he counter-claimed his own partner? at this point in the game its just fear-mongering, if he did that for the town clear then it will come to light when he manages to avoid the night KP consistently
tldr: if he is real, he will most likely be evaluated by the nk, it's pointless to humor him at this point
@tom: Why did you shoot dkings over me? He was pretty much objectively less scummy than I have been this game.
need some time to re-evaluate things, uhhm this seems like an odd post for a wolf to make, calling oneself objectively more wolfy than another play just seems like something a wolf wouldn't do, but hey its Killjoy kek
[quote from="Axelrod »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/812915-modern-mafia-day-2-blood-moon?comment=1929"]Hrm. It might be a point in Tom's favor that Az apparently also had "delayed" abilities. If Tom were scum that would make two scum with similar "disadvantages." Not entirely sure.
I wasn't sure if Tom had to announce the dayvig (I'm guessing he did), but if he did, that would also be two public display elements. Depending on the setup, I could see that also being a point in Tom's favor. I still feel like he needs to be sorted, though.
These are good points. I can still see maybe needing to come back to look at him later, but there's 4 or 5 players I'd want to work through first.
Feeling super unmotivated. Somebody ask me questions or vote me or something.
I'm leaning town on Vaimes, but he seems like the type of player I might have trouble reading. Would you say your opinion on him has gone up, down, or stayed the same over the course of the day?
Do you not understand how someone can re-evaluate a game after getting a fresh perspective? I literally have wanted KJ dead for four days. I told Tom to, and I quote, "shoot him." In that same post I said I was probably wrong on Tom and highlighted things.
I'm well aware of the concept of reevaluation. But I'm curious why you think this is relevant here. Because... dk was never your top choice anyway, according to your posts. You said if dk flipped scum you would clear tom, and then threatened Tom unless he shot dk and he flipped scum, but you never actually said dk was your top choice, or someone you even wanted shot. So, was is this reevaluation relevant?
No response Chris?
To be fair, blatant mindset slips are hard to address
Vezok is super unlikely because he counter-claimed his own partner?
This is something Ive thought a bit about. If scum have multiple most type rolls, and suspect the game is heavy on that, this would be a really smart and safe play. The thing keeping me from that paranoia is Vezoks early soft claim, which just makes it all so unlikely.
@axelrod
I can answer you, the answer is yes, I would as either alignment
I know you do as town, but can't recall for your scum game.
Quote from Wisp »
@Cantrip
as much as I enjoy town reads, it's not uncommon for people to just claim I am townie for almost nothing but my overall tone, what tipped the boat for you?
Not for anything you've done. Despite some posts I didn't like from you, I just can't see the way Az went about attacking Syrenz as being w/w. I'm possibly reading too much into that, but since it's how I caught Az in the first place, I'm hoping I'm right.
Wisp, you've been namedropping me as scum quite frequently, with several mentions of "fleshing me out", "skimming" my posts, and putting me on hypothetical scum teams, but nothing concrete for quite some time. Why do you think I'm scum?
FTR, I would probably be townleaning Tom but for a Thing I can't talk about right now. As it is, I think I want him to fullclaim, bare minimum.
I'm leaning town on Vaimes, but he seems like the type of player I might have trouble reading. Would you say your opinion on him has gone up, down, or stayed the same over the course of the day?
Up a little, I would say, but paranoia keeps me from just slotting him as town. Pretty open posting, thinking about the game, questioning things I would expect a town!Vaimes to question. My scariest tinfoil would be you and him both being deep wolves, but I feel like I've seen too many town indicators from both of you to make that likely. I'm pretty sure he's not scum with Tom.
Vezok is super unlikely because he counter-claimed his own partner?
This is something Ive thought a bit about. If scum have multiple most type rolls, and suspect the game is heavy on that, this would be a really smart and safe play. The thing keeping me from that paranoia is Vezoks early soft claim, which just makes it all so unlikely.
There is no world where I'm scum with Azrael and bus him early. Like what the **** do I gain? My ability doesn't work cause I have to be on a town wagon, we lose probably one of the most powerful scum roles and one of the most powerful players. I know I take dumb risks sometimes, but they're all calculated. There's no operation to apply in this situation where my hypothetical scumteam comes out on top.
Even then you'd have to discount my incredibly townie game thus far which I guess you can if you're scum.
So yeah, killjoy is just scum and needs death.
@Cantrip: day kill reset votes. Last votecount had you as not voting. That makes the post much less weird.
@people voting tom: You should stop. There is no way we are lynching a proven day vig with a similar activation to dead scum.
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also, it feels like a post where one would vote on, and giving Killjoy seems to not care about the posts he makes and how they go over to everyone else, I'd expect him to vote there
though if I was to isolate that Vezok post from the rest of the game, in a bubble, I do get the same sentiments as Killjoy
vote: Killjoy
yes, killjoy had a large train early on, but I don't really think it means that he can't be a wolf here
I've seen wolf trains rise early and die for the rest of the day phase, because everyone gets worried that they are wrong
@Chris
are you scum reading or town reading killjoy in the big wall post you quoted?
It's a vote-worthy post but holistically it doesn't move the needle on vezok?
Killjoy not caring about how he's perceived is scummy?
You understand why KJ didn't like the post but are nevertheless scumreading him for not liking it?
@vaimes
1. what?
2. I did not say that was scummy
3. This is a long string of Killjoy just making posts for the sake of making them, and the lack of vote proves my point
this is not just, "scumreading him because he doesn't like the post
I agree with the conclusion in isolation, but idk how you can fail to remember why Vezok is likely town at this stage in the game
Ouch. TownCantrip
Actually, Az does not address fuwa further down either. Which, I'm not sure how I feel about. If fuwa is a buddy, does he make an omission like this? He has to expect I'd follow up. Unless, he felt that first line was enough to brush me off.
Based on the way Az tends to interact with others, I feel like a townChris would get a sharper tone here. This isn't nearly as telling as their other interactions though.
Okay, bee getting delayed makes sense. I don't think Az comments like this here on a scumBee either.
Okay, this is definitely Az keeping his options open to pounce on bee.
Hmm. I'm inclined to agree with the +town here. But, why do this?
If chris/shadow is t/t, Az could be fanning both sides. But, would this play make sense if Az is getting ready to try to defend/pocket chris?
This.
This feels so overdramatic. Does Az make this kind of scene with a buddy? -I think he might be trying a little too hard to sell this.
There is no reason to bus shadow here, and not like this.
Wait, I think Az is lying here. Well, okay, obviously about Rhands read being wrong. I guess he's also trying to imply that Bee is scun, which also likely isn't true. Nevermind, theres too much going on here to get anything more on grape.
This feels manipulative. And a little too on the nose if buddies. Leaning townAxel
Having a wagon dissipate doesn't mean town. You're correct. It's often a wolf indicator. But KJ is still town here despite that. Look at 255. That post is pure town.
@kcc
I like the micro read of Cantrip there, but it doesnt really turn the needle for me
I doubt Azreal calls his own partner's reads garbage in the case of Shadow
and thats pretty much all I care about in that wall
What are you even talking about? I have a straight record of calling dkings town. I have tried to persuade tom all day to not shoot dkings because I think he was town. It's not over-explainy as I don't have anything to explain. It's a simple train of thought post where I'm telling the town what I think about "the event". Dkings was really townie, but the way he came in, claimed back-up and left felt a lot like scum getting stuck in the headlights. I don't like that tom shot him, but I understand why he did it. My post could be re-interpreted as "I still think tom is more town than scum even with a shot on someone I thought was very townie."
Please explain the bolded and what you meant by it, because there are no posts where I justified anything.
I don't know about guys, but I'm not moving off KJ until he is dead. I will also probably hound grape tomorrow after kj flips scum.
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We are almost 2k posts in, why is your defense of KJ boiling down to “look at a post in the first half of the first day, that sole post makes him town”. Yes, I get that there’s more you’ve said, but you just consolidated the whole read to that one post; and you should know better.
Well when people discount my supporting evidence from recent events as weak I'm going to go for the strongest evidence. I've been burnt too many times giving up town reads I was confident in because the game didn't stop.
I wasn't saying that post is the only reason he's town but it's the best.
@Wisp as for why it's all over the post. The suspicion about my defense. The weird contradiction in his KCC/syrenez reads that lead to donuts (scum would have pushed you after that 9/10). The breakdown of his wagon is fair and fearless. That post has none of the scum indicators you'd expect after a hard early wagon (nervousness, anti-spew, agenda, attempts to appease his wagon) and several strong town ones (paranoia about defenders, contradictions that aren't used as a weapon, and curiosity). I think he's continuing to be townie (see his catchup and interaction with you for example) but I've not been particularly worried since that post.
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Somehow I don't think Chris is scum twice.
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2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Super sincere question here... how can you ask that question if you read the post?
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Could be You should vote him twice to make sure
after I did a full re-read I noticed I was wrong
Also you're agreeing with my interpretation of a post. That's literally a scumtell. (Only partially joking there)
Grapes continued defense of me surely makes him town, He has literally nothing to gain from it. I'm being so scumread right now that it'll only make him look bad. I feel like scumGrape would have given in to the pressure to scumread me by now.
Lets break down your post here:
You're sad that dkings got shot -> He felt townie, but his role claim was so scummy!
First, being 'sad about a townie death' almost never feels genuine. It's just not a thing that people usually feel strongly enough to verbalize.
As for the second bit, you weren't townreading dk as much as you seem to be implying. The only time you mention him is your most recent page of your iso, and I could only find one mention of him before this post. This was "He pinged me weirdly, but I think he's probably town. Therefore, you saying you thought he was 'really townie' feels like a lie.
Like, whats the point of this whole post? I guess what it does is defends tom's shot of dk... making tom/vez slightly more likely than they were before.
The bolded part was me assuming you had called him scum at some point and were using that line to justify it, but you didn't... which makes it even more weird.
I have an almost normal schedule for a couple weeks with, like, days off and proper amounts of sleep and *****
I guess it's fine that you totally ignored this post.
You are actually right and I haven't actually mentioned dkings all game which is weird cause I've been townreading him since the early game. I especially liked his first few posts.
The point of that post was that I didn't know what to say and just posted my train of thoughts. I can't say I was totally convinced dkings wasn't scum before, but he is certainly not my top priority for death.
Also by rereading my ISO I found that Az's attacked your wagon because it was fast. That early in the game that carries some weight. I also found out I thought grape was scum in the beginning, but he dipped down for a bit and I forgot about him.
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Objectively
Aorn i think you fit pretty neatly into a powerwolfing team but on behavior... youre for sure within your ranges
Vote Count 2.7
Killjoy (4): Sir Chris, vezokpiraka, Vaimes, Lastwhisper
Sir Chris (3): tomsloger, KittyCupCake, Grapefruit21
Lastwhisper (1): Grapefruit21
Grapefruit21 (1): shadowlancerx
Abstain (5): Axelrod, Fuwa, Cantripmancer, Killjoy, Megiddo
With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Day 1 will end on Sunday, September 1st, at 11:59 PM.
@Tom: I would like to know if you had the ability to Day-kill on D1. Thank you very much.
Would have used it i assure you
So you DO think Az was coaching Syrenz. Agree to disagree, I guess.
Mostly for Beeboy's posts, especially the way he treated Az's claim (being ok with it, then casting shade on it when the wagon didn't dissolve, then missing the Tron land drop when he should have been looking for it). Your posts have been pretty straightforward, which in and of itself is ok verging on mildly concerning (only partially kidding).
I'd appreciate hearing from you on this choice, as we'll likely be staring down a similar barrel soon and have been considering Casper or Purple.
This is a very insightful post. Slightly unnerved, as I'm wondering if scum!you actually makes this post with town!Tom. A Tom pivot here would be an easy direction to push in, and scum!you pointing this out makes no sense if Tom's town. Is this a "both Chris and Tom scum or neither" indicator?
Along those lines, mild +town to Tom for the GINORMOUS lack of thread activity between 1773 and 1776. Tom asks for thoughts on a votal in 1773, then highlights a few other votals in 1774. Chris posts 1775 a little while later. And then there's almost 21 hours until 1776. If Tom were scum, I'd think a buddy would try to jumpstart conversation, probably in the direction Tom wanted it to go in when he posted that query.
On the flip side, Tom, why didn't you give DK a chance to post more before firing?
Wut? How had you not seen the claim by the time you made the post before this one?
Grape, not only have you strongly white knighted KJ, but I feel like you've almost completely put me on ignore unless I ask you a question. You don't have any questions or concerns about/for me? I'm just that town to you?
Vote Grape
@Cantrip because I hadn't (and still haven't read everything since D2 started), when I made the post in question I had only read roughly the last 15 posts and KJ's ISO. I haven't asked you anything because in the parts of the game I've read you have no presence. I have no idea if that's actually true though.
On the mattress front I haven't shopped around but my podcast bubble has good things to say about Helix mattresses.
I'll be on for a bit probably every day but I'll be mostly hanging with family. Don't expect a full reread is what I'm saying.
I wasn't sure if Tom had to announce the dayvig (I'm guessing he did), but if he did, that would also be two public display elements. Depending on the setup, I could see that also being a point in Tom's favor. I still feel like he needs to be sorted, though.
Killing power, I believe.
Feeling super unmotivated. Somebody ask me questions or vote me or something.
I assume that creature is
glistener elf
Just with my mod gaming hat on for a second; having a daykill day 1 runs the risk of destroying someone’s ability to play at all, so I have no general qualms with Tom not being able to use it until today (didn’t say this earlier cause I wanted Tom to say something first).
@Tom: did you have to do anything or did the creature just “get played” automatically?
That last post by Cantrip is just so weird.
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Mechanically its just "starting day 2"
Actually the only ~creature mentioned in my PM is inkmoth nexus but then the mana doesnt work for turn 2 lol
I think KJ's town, so not voting there. Could possibly vote Chris. Might vote Tom.
Unvote, vote tom
I realize I never answered if my scumread on tom is real. It is. Kind of half-boiled, but real.
@axelrod
I can answer you, the answer is yes, I would as either alignment
and ur second question, KP stands for kill power, its another way of stating the factional kill, which is used in the video mafia games I play
still not voting Tom :thumbs_up:
I wouldnt hate voting Fuwa just for information, ohh wait yes I would
, but the whole being inactive is just NAI
@vaimes
talk to me about your Tom scum read
@Cantrip
as much as I enjoy town reads, it's not uncommon for people to just claim I am townie for almost nothing but my overall tone, what tipped the boat for you?
Vezok is super unlikely because he counter-claimed his own partner? at this point in the game its just fear-mongering, if he did that for the town clear then it will come to light when he manages to avoid the night KP consistently
tldr: if he is real, he will most likely be evaluated by the nk, it's pointless to humor him at this point
need some time to re-evaluate things, uhhm this seems like an odd post for a wolf to make, calling oneself objectively more wolfy than another play just seems like something a wolf wouldn't do, but hey its Killjoy kek
unvote:
vote: Chris
Chris is a good vote. Tom seems pointless right now, he's already claimed, and definitely not the most likely scum atm.
These are good points. I can still see maybe needing to come back to look at him later, but there's 4 or 5 players I'd want to work through first.
I'm leaning town on Vaimes, but he seems like the type of player I might have trouble reading. Would you say your opinion on him has gone up, down, or stayed the same over the course of the day?
No response Chris?
To be fair, blatant mindset slips are hard to address
This is something Ive thought a bit about. If scum have multiple most type rolls, and suspect the game is heavy on that, this would be a really smart and safe play. The thing keeping me from that paranoia is Vezoks early soft claim, which just makes it all so unlikely.
Not for anything you've done. Despite some posts I didn't like from you, I just can't see the way Az went about attacking Syrenz as being w/w. I'm possibly reading too much into that, but since it's how I caught Az in the first place, I'm hoping I'm right.
Wisp, you've been namedropping me as scum quite frequently, with several mentions of "fleshing me out", "skimming" my posts, and putting me on hypothetical scum teams, but nothing concrete for quite some time. Why do you think I'm scum?
FTR, I would probably be townleaning Tom but for a Thing I can't talk about right now. As it is, I think I want him to fullclaim, bare minimum.
Vote Tom
There is no world where I'm scum with Azrael and bus him early. Like what the **** do I gain? My ability doesn't work cause I have to be on a town wagon, we lose probably one of the most powerful scum roles and one of the most powerful players. I know I take dumb risks sometimes, but they're all calculated. There's no operation to apply in this situation where my hypothetical scumteam comes out on top.
Even then you'd have to discount my incredibly townie game thus far which I guess you can if you're scum.
So yeah, killjoy is just scum and needs death.
@Cantrip: day kill reset votes. Last votecount had you as not voting. That makes the post much less weird.
@people voting tom: You should stop. There is no way we are lynching a proven day vig with a similar activation to dead scum.
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