(Also, it is totally feasible that Beeboy inferred Role madness from his whole team being PRs and then walked it back in any way he could, but there’s no way to know that, but it would be mildly hilarious)
This is a lot of why my vote is here. I don't see how someone gets any kind of impression on the whole setup from just looking at one role. Seeing an abnormally powerful scum team makes sense though
Why would anyone correct him? By correcting him you are claiming vanilla. You really expected someone to correct his meta?
Oh I have for sure been lazy as both alignments. I wouldn't admit to it though.
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I don't think that's a valid logic line. Is beeboy a novice player?
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I can certainly think of times when I have asked myself "would [insert player here] really do that as scum?" and the answer turned out to be "apparently yes".
Why would anyone correct him? By correcting him you are claiming vanilla. You really expected someone to correct his meta?
oh absolutely yes. This actually happened in secret agent Mafia; someone made a post assuming lots of power, and was immediately corrected/hinted at by 3 people.
Why would anyone correct him? By correcting him you are claiming vanilla. You really expected someone to correct his meta?
oh absolutely yes. This actually happened in secret agent Mafia; someone made a post assuming lots of power, and was immediately corrected/hinted at by 3 people.
By everyone's silence, I am assuming no one here can launder money?
@Rhand, Germany is beautiful. Though after 2 years, I am all castled-out.
For funsies, who here thinks they have the most complex role?
Okay here it is. Game was advertised as “High Complexity”. Lng was town.
GJ immediately hinted that Lng was wrong (he was scum in that case).
I ended up claiming VT after Lng didn’t get the hint to drop it (partially cause I thought GJ was also VT and I wanted to cover for him).
I believe someone else also pseudo jumped in on that as well. It was a bit of a mess.
Beeboy, why do you think this is a role madness game?
V/LA until Friday
I was just boldly assuming.
It took someone a really long time ask this which makes me think I am right.
Nothing based on what I asked the mod or the setup post though.
This means he knew he could out a possible vanilla saying that. His mindset isn’t pro-town.
Your misrepresenting me right now.
How did I possibly know I was outing a vanilla?
I literally thought the game had none and moved on with my life without second thought and I think that much is clear.
A later conclusion I made is not a previous act of me trying to out vanillas.
As a current act I am not sure why you think I would look at my position and go, "yeah someone will be dumb enough to fall for this and it's definitely worth the risk".
By everyone's silence, I am assuming no one here can launder money?
@Rhand, Germany is beautiful. Though after 2 years, I am all castled-out.
For funsies, who here thinks they have the most complex role?
Okay here it is. Game was advertised as “High Complexity”. Lng was town.
GJ immediately hinted that Lng was wrong (he was scum in that case).
I ended up claiming VT after Lng didn’t get the hint to drop it (partially cause I thought GJ was also VT and I wanted to cover for him).
I believe someone else also pseudo jumped in on that as well. It was a bit of a mess.
... Right so Bee is probably town, good talk everyone <_<.
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A combination of the sample PM not being vanilla and my general perception of recent themed games I've seen made me think the game was role madness.
Beeboy?
Strong lean town tbh.
Liars stick to their story, people remembering give variations.
I've got your back.
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How he breaks down arguments against him I would guess he had a decent amount of experience, which to me makes it less likely he is scum.
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A combination of the sample PM not being vanilla and my general perception of recent themed games I've seen made me think the game was role madness.
Beeboy?
>pre rand join this game for cool roles thinking theme games are role madness for some reason.
>Get role pm [redacted]
>See non VT sample pm.
>Think of various modern decks and what roles they can be.
>Never be presented with any info to make me rethink a thought I never overly thought about.
Like to fully explain why I thought this was role madness I have to explain why everything up until this post did not make me even consider the option I was wrong. That's because I never really thought about why this game was role madness in the first place. Which isn't even a solid memory because again I wasn't thinking about it.
Beeboy, why do you think this is a role madness game?
V/LA until Friday
I was just boldly assuming.
It took someone a really long time ask this which makes me think I am right.
Nothing based on what I asked the mod or the setup post though.
This means he knew he could out a possible vanilla saying that. His mindset isn’t pro-town.
Your misrepresenting me right now.
How did I possibly know I was outing a vanilla?
I literally thought the game had none and moved on with my life without second thought and I think that much is clear.
A later conclusion I made is not a previous act of me trying to out vanillas.
As a current act I am not sure why you think I would look at my position and go, "yeah someone will be dumb enough to fall for this and it's definitely worth the risk".
I’m sure tom can’t seriously think he caught scum in Beeboy after that string of posts.
I’m not too sure about KCC because it’s been so long since I played with her, but I know tom recognises town spew when he sees it.
By everyone's silence, I am assuming no one here can launder money?
@Rhand, Germany is beautiful. Though after 2 years, I am all castled-out.
For funsies, who here thinks they have the most complex role?
Okay here it is. Game was advertised as “High Complexity”. Lng was town.
GJ immediately hinted that Lng was wrong (he was scum in that case).
I ended up claiming VT after Lng didn’t get the hint to drop it (partially cause I thought GJ was also VT and I wanted to cover for him).
I believe someone else also pseudo jumped in on that as well. It was a bit of a mess.
... Right so Bee is probably town, good talk everyone <_<.
This is such a terrible read of the situation; and you pushing it like you think that it somehow is comparable as to what makes him town is bad and you should feel bad.
I’m not even saying it’s impossible for Beeboy to be town and also make that series of posts, but you’re comparing two very different people, making very different styles of posts for very different reasons, and saying that it somehow should make us all see that he’s town. Which...no.
@Rhand: What would you expect from scum!Beeboy there instead exactly?
Why Tom? His process from getting that Cantrip read from Beeboy tracks pretty well.
I’m sure tom can’t seriously think he caught scum in Beeboy after that string of posts.
I’m not too sure about KCC because it’s been so long since I played with her, but I know tom recognises town spew when he sees it.
Im certainly seeing spew, but why is it townspew and not just “decent player who believes he can fight off an attack” spew
KCC and Syrenze seem genuinely uninterested in my wagon. For KCC it was concious I think, Syrenze might be ignoring it. Syrenze might not be town in that case.
Why is that the case for Syrenze?
Syrenze just completely didn't even hint at seeing that it was going on. KCC at least seemed generally aware of it and what was going on. Syrenze just kinda commented on it passively and moved on.
Syrenze might not be here any more, but I'd still be interested in your response to his question about how you said he was "genuinely uninterested" in your wagon when his last post on the matter he said he was interested in your wagon and more was to come after you responded.
Quote from KJ »
Cantrip: Rhand's process is such that I have noticed a specific approach to the game that Rhand does when he's trying to find scum. It has nothing to do with low posting or low impact (he could do that as scum, idk but that's not what I look for).
Ok, I did misunderstand, then, as I thought you were saying that his lack of impact was the gauge you were using to measure him.
Cantrip is V/LA currently, don't feel like sitting here anymore, still believe that one line I quoted felt very manipulative
I think the two most important takeaways here are a) I'm impressed that you read one of my posts that was longer than one line, and b) have you actually read all of my posts? Because I've made more than one.
(Also, it is totally feasible that Beeboy inferred Role madness from his whole team being PRs and then walked it back in any way he could, but there’s no way to know that, but it would be mildly hilarious)
This is pretty much where I've been since Beeboy posted #87. I got my role, asked Proph a few questions, one of the responses made me wonder if it was role madness, I asked him if the game had been billed as role madness (but that I didn't expect him to tell me if it was or not if he hadn't already specified), and moved on. Then Beeboy made #87, which--contrary to most speculation right now--didn't feel like role/VT-fishing, but rather felt like he was making game assumptions based on knowing it was role madness. He casually mentions it as a reason to support the scum-perspective on Vez's claim. When I read that, I thought "oh, hey, this probably IS role madness". And then I thought "wait, why is Beeboy tossing that around as an argument if he doesn't KNOW that the game is role madness". I figured the only way a player would feel certain of role madness would be if he saw MULTIPLE power roles, which would lead to Beeboy being scum and seeing his team's roles.
But.
I......may have been known to read too much into things like this in the past. So I figured I'd wait and see if anyone else picked up on it, and in the meantime I'd try to get some reads out of Beeboy before he felt pressured. That didn't exactly happen since he was gone for a bit, but I'm happy to see the wagon.
Beeboy, when you said "it took someone a really long time to ask this", what question were you specifically referring to?
I've been wanting to vote Beeboy since page 2, but I still want Azrael to answer my question, so...I'll just leave my vote where it is for now.
Rhand, take a look at my thoughts above. Still think it's town spew (specifically take a look at what he says in 87)?
I haven't re-read any of Beeboy's stuff yet, but the argument that he was sneakily fishing for vanilla townies by stating this was a "role madness" game is dumb.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
This is a lot of why my vote is here. I don't see how someone gets any kind of impression on the whole setup from just looking at one role. Seeing an abnormally powerful scum team makes sense though
... doesn't make sense from a decently experienced scum? And why you believe a townie of a similar skill level is more likely to yell "Hey guys I am power!"
@beeboy: I just wanted as clear a look into your thought process as possible.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Town but I was too lazy to put in effort of finding quotes to explain why so I kept that to myself.
The fact that he was expecting VT to correct him (from the first quote) and it didnt show up in his cantrip read when i asked
So yeah i think beeboy was role hunting and isnt even using it for reads.
Vote stays
Vote: Tomsloger
I don't believe that you believe this.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I also don't believe that Beeboy's statement was some kind of "slip" which happened from him being scum - and having a role - and seeing his fellow scum - also having roles - and then making an assumption based on that that the whole game was "role madness." That is an almost equally bad argument and I am now giving Cantripmancer the for making it.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I’m sure tom can’t seriously think he caught scum in Beeboy after that string of posts.
I’m not too sure about KCC because it’s been so long since I played with her, but I know tom recognises town spew when he sees it.
Im certainly seeing spew, but why is it townspew and not just “decent player who believes he can fight off an attack” spew
Your unwavering scum read on me is so incredibly wolfy.
You have a previous game in which someone assumed a game was role madness, VTs called that player out. That player was town but it doesn't count.
You now say I am an experienced enough player to reasonably defend myself but I actively made the conclusion the game was role madness as scum because my team had roles. And even if my defense here is neutral like your arguing to Rhand then what exactly am I a wolf for if I am neutral?
As someone who has been tunneled many times in his life I just feel like the lack of absolute consideration that I could be town here is so unnatural given what's going on in the game thread
And it's making it incredibly hard to see you as town.
(Also, it is totally feasible that Beeboy inferred Role madness from his whole team being PRs and then walked it back in any way he could, but there’s no way to know that, but it would be mildly hilarious)
This is a lot of why my vote is here. I don't see how someone gets any kind of impression on the whole setup from just looking at one role. Seeing an abnormally powerful scum team makes sense though
Oh man, more than just Cantrip.
For all of you!
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Why (specifically the extreme of wanting to shut it down)?
It's how I've always played: I see a wagon I don't like, and I throw an absolute fit. I'm trying to not do that now and just let wagons do what they're going to do, at least for D1
I also don't believe that Beeboy's statement was some kind of "slip" which happened from him being scum - and having a role - and seeing his fellow scum - also having roles - and then making an assumption based on that that the whole game was "role madness." That is an almost equally bad argument and I am now giving Cantripmancer the for making it.
I agree with you now, but I think it was a plausible explanation at that point for how bee could have reached that idea. It was worth exploring.
I’m sure tom can’t seriously think he caught scum in Beeboy after that string of posts.
I’m not too sure about KCC because it’s been so long since I played with her, but I know tom recognises town spew when he sees it.
Im certainly seeing spew, but why is it townspew and not just “decent player who believes he can fight off an attack” spew
Since I am going to Antwerp pride dressed as a Roman tomorrow, I think the best reaction to this is “tu quoque fili mi?”
This is as town as it gets and you’re the one who compared it to Lmgrr doing the same thing. As town.
@Beeboy: I’m not even scum reading you that much, I just don’t particularly find the excuses for you being town that compelling (that’s on the people making them, not you). I actually believe your explanation of the whole Role madness stuff, just not convinced it makes you town. I certainly don’t proport to have a strong scum read on anyone frankly, it’s day one, and decent scum can blend it well enough.
Anyway, since it’s happening: Vote Sir Chris
I’m sure tom can’t seriously think he caught scum in Beeboy after that string of posts.
I’m not too sure about KCC because it’s been so long since I played with her, but I know tom recognises town spew when he sees it.
Im certainly seeing spew, but why is it townspew and not just “decent player who believes he can fight off an attack” spew
Since I am going to Antwerp pride dressed as a Roman tomorrow, I think the best reaction to this is “tu quoque fili mi?”
This is as town as it gets and you’re the one who compared it to Lmgrr doing the same thing. As town.
Lngs approach vs BeeBoy’s approach were night and day, my bringing up Lng was to address Sir Chris suggesting that no town would say anything in response to a vanilla fishing trip.
Beeboy May be town, but the stuff on this page is not that hard to fake or do as scum.
outside Tom's open-wolfy type posts, which tend to from what I remember come from his town game more often than his wolf game,
I will not be voting that slot today
if Tom's train ever becomes Large, he is just town, or his partners are bussing him, which if day chat exists, he would give them hell for
I'll re-evaluate if Tom's train ever gets large and a counter train seems to approach, else no thanks
I am wavering on Rhand a little, though I believe that him searching through ISOs from other games feels like a lot of work for a wolf to do to look town, and aligns with his meta from a couple games ago, I see comments like this
Quote from Rhand »
This means he knew he could out a possible vanilla saying that. His mindset isn’t pro-town.
its not even the most damning thing on this site, ive seen many non-pro-town mindsets
just feels like in terms of Beeboy, is that, thats what he thought, and just went with it
I still think town!beeboy is more open to speaking his mind, while wolf!beeboy just trys to push horrid votes, thread presence and post count is completely NAI for him
sure I am open to a Chris wagon, the whole tonal read on me is kinda yuck, since I dont think my content overall has been that great, as I am kinda overloaded at the moment
though I believe that Chris falls under the same category as Tom, never gets lynched Day 1 unless he is town
This is a lot of why my vote is here. I don't see how someone gets any kind of impression on the whole setup from just looking at one role. Seeing an abnormally powerful scum team makes sense though
Oh I have for sure been lazy as both alignments. I wouldn't admit to it though.
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What would your guess be on his experience/skill?
This means he knew he could out a possible vanilla saying that. His mindset isn’t pro-town.
Was that someone mafia?
GJ immediately hinted that Lng was wrong (he was scum in that case).
I ended up claiming VT after Lng didn’t get the hint to drop it (partially cause I thought GJ was also VT and I wanted to cover for him).
I believe someone else also pseudo jumped in on that as well. It was a bit of a mess.
Your misrepresenting me right now.
How did I possibly know I was outing a vanilla?
I literally thought the game had none and moved on with my life without second thought and I think that much is clear.
A later conclusion I made is not a previous act of me trying to out vanillas.
As a current act I am not sure why you think I would look at my position and go, "yeah someone will be dumb enough to fall for this and it's definitely worth the risk".
The fact that he was expecting VT to correct him (from the first quote) and it didnt show up in his cantrip read when i asked
So yeah i think beeboy was role hunting and isnt even using it for reads.
Vote stays
Rhand's take here is really rubbing me the wrong way and is making me question my read.
Beeboy?
Vote Count 1.15
beeboy (5): shadowlancerx, dkingsland967, tomsloger, KittyCupCake, Rhand
Killjoy (2): vezokpiraka, Lastwhisper
Grapefruit21 (2): Sir Chris, Fuwa
Cantripmancer (1): Vaimes
shadowlancerx (1): beeboy
Lastwhisper (1): Azrael
Azrael (1): Cantripmancer
Fuwa (1): Grapefruit21
Abstain (2): Killjoy, Axelrod
With 16 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch.
Day 1 will end on Friday, August 16th, at 11:59 PM.
... Right so Bee is probably town, good talk everyone <_<.
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Strong lean town tbh.
Liars stick to their story, people remembering give variations.
I've got your back.
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>pre rand join this game for cool roles thinking theme games are role madness for some reason.
>Get role pm [redacted]
>See non VT sample pm.
>Think of various modern decks and what roles they can be.
>Never be presented with any info to make me rethink a thought I never overly thought about.
Like to fully explain why I thought this was role madness I have to explain why everything up until this post did not make me even consider the option I was wrong. That's because I never really thought about why this game was role madness in the first place. Which isn't even a solid memory because again I wasn't thinking about it.
And the argument I am role fishing also assumes I was thinking about the possibility the game wasn't role madness which i straight up never did.
Beeboy is town.
unvote, vote tom
Let’s lynch scum instead.
I’m not too sure about KCC because it’s been so long since I played with her, but I know tom recognises town spew when he sees it.
I’m not even saying it’s impossible for Beeboy to be town and also make that series of posts, but you’re comparing two very different people, making very different styles of posts for very different reasons, and saying that it somehow should make us all see that he’s town. Which...no.
@Rhand: What would you expect from scum!Beeboy there instead exactly?
Why Tom? His process from getting that Cantrip read from Beeboy tracks pretty well.
Ok, I did misunderstand, then, as I thought you were saying that his lack of impact was the gauge you were using to measure him.
Why (specifically the extreme of wanting to shut it down)?
There's an Azrael wagon?
I think the two most important takeaways here are a) I'm impressed that you read one of my posts that was longer than one line, and b) have you actually read all of my posts? Because I've made more than one.
This is pretty much where I've been since Beeboy posted #87. I got my role, asked Proph a few questions, one of the responses made me wonder if it was role madness, I asked him if the game had been billed as role madness (but that I didn't expect him to tell me if it was or not if he hadn't already specified), and moved on. Then Beeboy made #87, which--contrary to most speculation right now--didn't feel like role/VT-fishing, but rather felt like he was making game assumptions based on knowing it was role madness. He casually mentions it as a reason to support the scum-perspective on Vez's claim. When I read that, I thought "oh, hey, this probably IS role madness". And then I thought "wait, why is Beeboy tossing that around as an argument if he doesn't KNOW that the game is role madness". I figured the only way a player would feel certain of role madness would be if he saw MULTIPLE power roles, which would lead to Beeboy being scum and seeing his team's roles.
But.
I......may have been known to read too much into things like this in the past. So I figured I'd wait and see if anyone else picked up on it, and in the meantime I'd try to get some reads out of Beeboy before he felt pressured. That didn't exactly happen since he was gone for a bit, but I'm happy to see the wagon.
Beeboy, when you said "it took someone a really long time to ask this", what question were you specifically referring to?
I've been wanting to vote Beeboy since page 2, but I still want Azrael to answer my question, so...I'll just leave my vote where it is for now.
Rhand, take a look at my thoughts above. Still think it's town spew (specifically take a look at what he says in 87)?
... doesn't make sense from a decently experienced scum? And why you believe a townie of a similar skill level is more likely to yell "Hey guys I am power!"
@beeboy: I just wanted as clear a look into your thought process as possible.
This, however, is terrible:
Vote: Tomsloger
I don't believe that you believe this.
Unvote vote Chris
For reaching that conclusion in a way that makes no sense without inside info.
Your unwavering scum read on me is so incredibly wolfy.
You have a previous game in which someone assumed a game was role madness, VTs called that player out. That player was town but it doesn't count.
You now say I am an experienced enough player to reasonably defend myself but I actively made the conclusion the game was role madness as scum because my team had roles. And even if my defense here is neutral like your arguing to Rhand then what exactly am I a wolf for if I am neutral?
As someone who has been tunneled many times in his life I just feel like the lack of absolute consideration that I could be town here is so unnatural given what's going on in the game thread
And it's making it incredibly hard to see you as town.
Apparently I am alone on this read and should look to move to someone else.
But really if your town and I am wrong can you at least try to think of this from both sides?
I'm glad someone else caught this.
vote sir chris
It felt like I was reading beeboy's lawyer response.
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Oh man, more than just Cantrip.
For all of you!
It's how I've always played: I see a wagon I don't like, and I throw an absolute fit. I'm trying to not do that now and just let wagons do what they're going to do, at least for D1
I agree with you now, but I think it was a plausible explanation at that point for how bee could have reached that idea. It was worth exploring.
Since I am going to Antwerp pride dressed as a Roman tomorrow, I think the best reaction to this is “tu quoque fili mi?”
This is as town as it gets and you’re the one who compared it to Lmgrr doing the same thing. As town.
Anyway, since it’s happening:
Vote Sir Chris
Beeboy May be town, but the stuff on this page is not that hard to fake or do as scum.
I will not be voting that slot today
if Tom's train ever becomes Large, he is just town, or his partners are bussing him, which if day chat exists, he would give them hell for
I'll re-evaluate if Tom's train ever gets large and a counter train seems to approach, else no thanks
I am wavering on Rhand a little, though I believe that him searching through ISOs from other games feels like a lot of work for a wolf to do to look town, and aligns with his meta from a couple games ago, I see comments like this
its not even the most damning thing on this site, ive seen many non-pro-town mindsets
just feels like in terms of Beeboy, is that, thats what he thought, and just went with it
sure I am open to a Chris wagon, the whole tonal read on me is kinda yuck, since I dont think my content overall has been that great, as I am kinda overloaded at the moment
though I believe that Chris falls under the same category as Tom, never gets lynched Day 1 unless he is town
gotta work on getting back into this game, while I have the chance