I already cleared Chris on the back of he proved himself a Tracker, the last scum is a daykiller, and there's no way he is going to be a Mafia Tracker/Daykiller.
I honestly didnt even think of that
Of course you didn't. Why should anything ever be easy?
There have been many sub-optimal choices made this game, I think.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I want Last then shadow and then axelrod to claim. At the moment my info points to tom being 90% scum, but I require a mass claim to be 100%.
Now would be a good time to explain this too.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Incidentally, this is/would be it for me. I only get one day of ghost-posting.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
sorry I was a bit distracted before
Mechanically Vezok is always a wolf to me now vote: Vezok
How about, there is no other possibility period - at least from your perspective.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Vezok should have been murdered days ago and he started day 2 suspecting not tom UH OH.
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Anyway I will take my sweet ass time and re-read some things, this should be fun.
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I have five abilities: one of them is a deck cop. Another one is a track. The third one is a motion detector (i know if the target used abilities or had abilities used on them). The fourth is a doc and the fifth is a bodyguard.
I used doc on night 3 on axelrod I think. I will check after I post cause I'm on the phone.
I used the motion detector on night 4 on tom and got a positive result. I thought that made him scum if nobody claimed any ability used on him. I still thought there was a chance he might be town, but I figured out later that it was impossible regardless of my ability.
So yeah, last is scum from my point of view.
He's the only one with an unverifiable ability.
vote last
Please don't rush this guys. I know I was horribly wrong on tom and kj, but I don't want to lose this game in LyLo due to me.
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@Last: talk to me more about why you didn’t use your ability N4. Even if Tom was the lynch, you still could have checked Chris anyway right? Why not do so then?
Last’s ability to revive has some weird overlap with both me and Axel. Can I get your take Axel?
Needed. Full claim everything. Name, Deck, cards, abilities, etc.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Last: talk to me more about why you didn’t use your ability N4. Even if Tom was the lynch, you still could have checked Chris anyway right? Why not do so then?
Last’s ability to revive has some weird overlap with both me and Axel. Can I get your take Axel?
I am, in fact, bothered by it. It seems the same thing as me. When I die, I come back for a day. Then I'm gone. Except I can't vote and I don't count for numbers, and apparently he can and does? The only difference is: his doesn't go off if he is lynched, only night-killed?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Worth noting that Tom's fake day-kill basically confirms the existence of scum day-chat, as they had to coordinate that. Which means they could have been and likely were discussing any and all claims/hints about their roles that they put in the thread. And makes bussing more likely in general.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
on my review for the record I am going to care very little about roles tbh
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Yeah, I am almost convinced Az is lying about his claim.
And I am convinced you're second guessing the mod over confirmable details of things that will probably show up in this thread within 24 hours and that nobody would have any motivation to lie about.
I'm not second guessing the mod. I believe it all the day. I'm just counterclaiming you. I'm also a joat and my abilitirs are nowhere near those you have.
I thought everyone would put 2 and 2 together and realise that I have to be on the lynch wagon to unlock a random ability.
I have a single ability and it's named after a card, but the connection is about 2. I could totally buy a one shot cop as Karn. That's the least of my problems with Az' claim.
And while none of abilities overlap with Az, his seem much stronger than mine and unrealistic. I'm more concerned with how our roles don't overlap at all. I believe that is Az' role except he has something good for scum instrad of a cop and is somewhat of a mirror to mine.
Scum read on Chris is now confirmed. That's the most bull***** way to try to save your buddy. Az needs death today.
Simply put our roles are not compatible with each other. All of his abilities are way better than all of my abilities with one exception where my ability might be on par with his. He gets to choose his effects, I get one random. His drawback is that the mod announces in thread that his role is powered up and he is only active starting with night 2, while my drawback is that I have to be on the lynch wagon. And that's not everything. I only get an ability if the lynched person is town. This is mostly irrelevant as I'd still try to be on every lynch, but it's another drawback of my role.
Simply put our roles are way too similar, while his is just better than everything I do. I know it's not a perfect reason, but it just seems too much. Like I understand putting a doc and a bodyguard in the same game to confuse the people, but this is a bit ridiculous. And still Az doesn't like playing scum and he knows how to claim stuff correctly. His claim feels like a weak attempt to stay alive.
Possibly, but Vezok isn't a JoaT for starters and secondly why would a scum Jack have a cop scan?
Yes I am a JOAT. Stop misrrepping my role. I get an ability at the end of the day and get to use it. I don't target a person and then something random happens to them. I just don't have control over which ability I get. While it's not the same as having a pool of abilities and choosing from it, it's still very similar in that I have a pool of abilities and get one every night.
It doesn't mention anything regarding conditional.in the role title.
Anyway just because tom gained the shot day 2 doesn't mean it's correlated with Az dying. This feels.like an extremely bad push.
I'm so pissed at Vaimes. Why the **** would you shoot KCC, the most townread person after me. Baaah.
Ok, so I'm coming around to tom being scum, but I can't shake the feeling that what Cantrip did all game was terribly convenient.
I used a protect on axelrod last night and it resolved. Seems like I should have used it on KCC, but figured nobody would shoot there. AAAAAAA.
Where I'm at is that mechanically speaking tom is most likely scum, but the way Cantrip CC-ed and allowed Vaimes to shoot KCC still make me think he's scum. But yeah, there's too many things stacked against tom.
Out of the five abilities doc is by far the best one. Another two are not awful, but not amazing and two of them are almost useless. Well one of them would have been great right now, but I didn't get it.
One of my random abilities is a deck cop. All other 4 abilities are normal abilities that don't care about what deck a person is so the first few days I thought the ability was useless. The fact that Cantrip is the only player in the game who seems to care about decks is even weirder.
I have five abilities: one of them is a deck cop. Another one is a track. The third one is a motion detector (i know if the target used abilities or had abilities used on them). The fourth is a doc and the fifth is a bodyguard.
I used doc on night 3 on axelrod I think. I will check after I post cause I'm on the phone.
I used the motion detector on night 4 on tom and got a positive result. I thought that made him scum if nobody claimed any ability used on him. I still thought there was a chance he might be town, but I figured out later that it was impossible regardless of my ability.
So yeah, last is scum from my point of view.
He's the only one with an unverifiable ability.
vote last
Please don't rush this guys. I know I was horribly wrong on tom and kj, but I don't want to lose this game in LyLo due to me.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
so to start off, it was really hard for me to force myself to be less in your face than I usually am, I didnt want to get lynched by town, and I certainly didnt want to get NK'd, I wanted to survive as long as possible hoping I could get my ability off, and I was expecting a red check based on what I believed given Shadow being on two of wolf trains, and Vezok being unlikely to cc his own partner
Deck: Izzet Pheonix
Archlight Pheonix (Passive): If you are to die in any way, you will revive during the next cycle, and only for that cycle. This ability is disabled in lylo/mylo situations
Surgical Extraction (one-shot): Once per game after "Thing in the Ice" has been transformed, you may target a dead player and living player, and learn if they have the same alignment. (I had asked Cross, and the answers would be either same or different)
Thing in the Ice (Passive): You begin the game with 4 ice counters. Whenever a player is lynched remove one. If you have no ice counters, transform
My passive was cool, it gives me the ability to vote again. Surviving long enough to actually utilize my ability was the hardest part given my personality
Anyways, didn't really matter who in the graveyard I checked, so I just went with Tom and Chris
and I was to told "different"
I am sad that he wasn't actually a wolf, but at least now we can remove him from the PoE
so ya never touching Chris
What's your name?
Town -...what?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
If your role is "Daykiller," do you, as scum, lie in your very first post of the game? And then proceed to concoct this very elaborate claim that risks being counterclaimed/disproven/caught at multiple points?
Which sort of beings me round to another thing I was contemplating but didn't really want to believe which is that maybe, maybe? the daykilling could have been some kind of collective/group ability thing and not just one scum's role? That would just be so super-powerful though, and I think me and Proph would have...words...if that turned out to be the case.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Idk what to say to it being so close to Axel's role, thats just what my role is, I was a little confused when I saw your flip I'll give you that, but I am exactly as I say
@Shadow
I was hoping for more information going into the day we lynched Tom, Chris and me were probably never dying, so I just waited
nothing happened so I just stuck with Chris since he was pretty much the only decent option
and if let's say hypothetically I come up with this very elaborate role, with the counters and *****, there is 0 reason for me not to just claim I had the check since yesterday
It's pretty bad for a one-shot Cop who has to live until N4 to get the shot off to then...not do it.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
and if let's say hypothetically I come up with this very elaborate role, with the counters and *****, there is 0 reason for me not to just claim I had the check since yesterday
Except for you should have claimed it yesterday in that scenario.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
/shrug
I skimmed, I thought they were more fleshed out then they were, I already went back through his iso, and I realized I was mistaken
clearly posting during my v/la was a mistake
its also doubtful that fuwa lied about her claim, from my role, and my role, her claim, and azreals I think its clear that the most if not all power roles are a combination of 3 abilities
though im not claiming till I get to L2 (claiming almost guarantees I die to the KP), I'm not a bad player as scum or town, I am just very headstrong about what I believe
@cantrip
Shooting me cause you can't figure me out is just rood, I'd rather not die before I can resolve my ability, so no bully, that's the most I'm saying on that matter
@mafia
I'm good mislynch bait no shoot or roleblock plz
@kcc
Just noticed ur post, idk when I'll get a chance to find actually posts, to push my case, I'll try tonight
BRB I need my coffee,
@axel
Me having a conditional may or not be a lie, either way I'm not claiming more, I already claimed enough
I feel likes it's literally so easy to just chop a conditional onto your claim to make it sound more towny
What?
Do you not understand the point of my question? I am trying to assess the credibility of Chris's claim. What do you mean you may or may not have lied? What are you even doing this game?
if I did or did not have some kind of conditional, why would it make it more or less likely for Chris to have one
my main ability has a condition, but nothing like that, not a delay, not you must lynch this alignment, or you cant use it till this day
sorry I didn't have my coffee when I responded I was irritated
And this just means that Last would have had his fake claim more or less worked out by then - which he kinda would have had to do if Tom was going to fake Daykiller.
His last post is obviously inconsistent with the current claim - the cop is "delayed" and can't be used until a certain day. And it is definitely convenient, in hindsight, that he had an "Investigative" that would have required us to let him live to D5 to show it off.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Last is playing as though he’s disheartened by 2 scum lynches.
that makes no sense, stop making stuff up, in the world where I was a wolf, I would still play my heart out regardless of anything
it just happened that between work and my cold yesterday, it was just hard to concentrate on the game
also the only world where wolf me hammers wolf!Grape, is one where Tom is also a wolf
I think we are in that world
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I'm Hollow One deck and my cards are Burning Inquiry and Goblin Lore (and Hollow One ofc). My ability is based on Burning Inquiry and the name is town RNG JOAT.
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imagine going out of my way to fake claim a parity cop that is locked until after day 4... I wish I could make this ***** up
but ya yikes on my earlier posts, I was in between breadcrumbing and not wanting to claim ***** all together, so I was all over the place
going to sleep, I work all day tomorrow, so can y'all chill
It is unfortunate that both these guys were such big Tom supporters. That does muddy the waters. But the overall remaining balance seems to favor Vez. By a lot even.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Vez: Can you go through each person you’ve targeted each night and why you picked each one?
I wanted to target cantrip with the doc, but I asked the mod and the asceticezer would block my doc so I decided against it. I then thought I'd save the one of the towniest people and chose axelord. My other choice would have been Vaimes and I felt kinda bad when he died and I didn't save him. I also thought about targeting cantrip or kj just to check if they really are what they claimed, but decided against it cause a doc is pretty powerful and I didn't want to waste.
I didn't really know what to do with the motion detector so I decided to target tom, because I thought that if my ability came back positive that meant he had a ability (low chance of being targeted by anyone) and that made him scum. I wasn't that sure that he was scum by then and still thought there might have been a way that scum were ******* with the abilities, but when cantrip died it was confirmed that tom was scum. I got caught up in the fact that I was right on all my reads up until KJ and still believed I'm right about tom.
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Deck: Hollow One
Town RNG JOAT
I have five abilities: one of them is a deck cop. Another one is a track. The third one is a motion detector (i know if the target used abilities or had abilities used on them). The fourth is a doc and the fifth is a bodyguard.
What is Good about this: The random ability flavor of it seems fine. Hollow One/Random draws/Random abilities. Each of the abilities claimed is fine individually. Nothing too wonky. Motion detector seems the weirdest, but not impossible. It is, by and large, consistent with how Vez hinted about his role. Vez claimed this in his very first post of the game (I know, he didn't claim the whole role, but he started the claim, and clearly as scum he would already have worked it out). Counter-claimed Az. Which, when you think about it, if they are both scum and talking about their claims, do they do that? Maybe. But, if scum, he was playing a very, very long and seemingly risky con. His claimed uses of abilities, while possibly not the best of choices, are not unbelievable.
What is bad about this: There's no flavor really with needing to be on a Town lynch to get an ability that I see. There's a weird overlap with Chris's role and Chris's is strictly better, as he just gets his ability when a Town is lynched and Vez needs to be part of the actual mislynch. There's also overlap with Town on the actual abilities. Doc/Track were already Town abilities, and, in fact, there were two Doc abilities counting Osie's 1-shot, so this would be a third. He probably undersold the power of the role when he said - in response to Az's claim - that Az's role seemed so much better than his. Three of these abilities are just good. Deck Cop and Bodyguard are meh, but not useless either. Also would mean that there would be two town roles actually named "Jack-of-All-Trades."
Deck: Izzet Pheonix
Town Parity Cop
Archlight Pheonix (Passive): If you are to die in any way, you will revive during the next cycle, and only for that cycle. This ability is disabled in lylo/mylo situations
Surgical Extraction (one-shot): Once per game after "Thing in the Ice" has been transformed, you may target a dead player and living player, and learn if they have the same alignment. (I had asked Cross, and the answers would be either same or different)
Thing in the Ice (Passive): You begin the game with 4 ice counters. Whenever a player is lynched remove one. If you have no ice counters transform
What's good about this: As far as I can see, this is the only pure alignment investigative role claimed in the game. So, if LW is scum then the Town had no Cop role, period, not even a 1-shot. There is some flavor with Arclight Phoenix and being revived for a Day.
That's kind of it.
What's bad about this: I do not like how these abilities interact. "Thing in the Ice" is not an ability at all. It's just a timer. When it goes off...nothing happens. Except now he gets to use his other ability. That is weird to me. It would make so much more sense from a flavor perspective if the Thing in the Ice ability did something when it transformed. And there is no flavor connection between being Transformed and Surgical Extraction. Why do you have to be "Transformed" before you can Surgical Extract? They are just completely different things. And further, there is no connection between the Cop ability and the Phoenix ability. There are also just completely separate things. I was wrong earlier when I misread his claim and thought that if he was lynched his ability would not go off, only if he was NK. This claim is that if he dies "in any way" he will come back for the next cycle. So, this seems just a strictly better version of my ability. We both come back for one Day. But he gets to vote and everything. With a delayed Cop shot tacked onto it.
There is also some fuzziness associated with the ability being disabled in Ly/Lo situations. What count's? There are a lot of delayed abilities in this game, and many potential weird interactions. Like, what if Meg was alive right now. Or Osie. Or Cantrip. Some ability that could prevent a NK. Would this be Ly/Lo? Because theoretically, if they stop the NK, it's not. So is the ability disabled or not? If LW was lynched would he come back? Does Proph wait? And see who the Doc targets, and who the scum pick at night, before then deciding if the ability works or not? I don't like that very much.
He expressed that he was worried about surviving long enough to get his shot off, which is certainly reasonable. But then didn't do it. I find this incredible almost to the point of unbelievable. The fact he apparently felt no fear that he himself would be killed that night is almost irrelevant. You always go after who you think is scum there. We just mislynched for the second time. The game was no longer on easy-mode. It was going to be freaking Ly/Lo the next day. And you are waiting on the most powerful thing you can do in the game...because? And then, after we lynched Tom and he came up "Not Dayvig", targeting Chris was a bad choice. Chris was a proven Tracker at that time. Yes, there was some possibility of weird combo roles, but, really, the likelihood of Tracker/Dayvig. was remote. LW says he didn't think of that, so, okay, I guess. Still not optimal.
Advantage: Vez
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Give a couple of hours sorry I worked till midnight and I had to come back for 8am
I'm still the parity cop, I need to look over stuff
The possibility of their being a double role on mafia is not impossible or maybe the day vig or w/e the hell it was, was something else entirely, idk, all I know is that I'm the parity cop and I'm I'm not about to bite the dust because I played my role suboptimally
I wasn't going to check shadow, and I wasn't going to check vezok, Chris was the only option, his tracker claim didn't even cross my mind, I had forgotten
Sorry, been a parent the past few days my kid is teething lmao.
So I read a bit and I have to say Vezok's progression early day one would be a really just odd angle to take for scum. He went from Grapefruit to KJ and then shaded Az for not being on board with KJ being scum. It makes it super believable that he would think KJ is scum for days and days when Az flipped scum and kind of checks out why he was all over KJ.
I think this is going to come down to "boy scum was stupid for killing the backup" if LW is indeed the last scum because all of that town power being alive (including me since yeah tracker + day vig is a strange combo!) has backfired massively and why I couldn't believe scum would be so stupid.
Treying to see the Vezok world here and all it is would be "he should be dead."
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Exactly and he's not, and here I am
in a world where the dayvig wasn't actually public, there would have been no reason for Tom to do all that ****ery, just to hide his role
I am literally just the parity cop, I recall bread-crumbing it a bunch early on, and then I stopped, and again during day 3? where I stated I had a reason for not wanting to lynch killjoy, given though that was a lie since I hadn't actually used my ability then and couldn't have anyways
Lmao that can't be that stupid since Vezok looks better than me currently, given a world where Vezok is town he should've been dead years ago
though that reasoning alone is shallow
Its really hard to refute ur points in paragraph two @axelrod
again there really isnt much I can say on the matter, IDK much about magic cards or standard decks
its disabled if a town lynch can lead to the mafia win, regardless of if there exists an ability that can stop the win, thats what mylo is, at least thats what I always thought it was
Why should have I been dead long ago? My role is one of the weakest in the game and while I was townread heavily in the beginning I was wrong on tom and I wasn't pushing you that hard. Scum had no reason to NK me.
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True, there seemed to always be someone who was a better target than you
well played, you managed to elude everyone by bussing your own partner day 1
@vezok
did you ever answer why you originally lied about your ability being random?
cause from what it seems, you can choose the ability you get from a town lynch?
I want Last then shadow and then Axelrod to claim. At the moment my info points to tom being 90% scum, but I require a mass claim to be 100%.
what exactly was this about?
if I am a wolf, then exactly all 3 wolves were on Fuwa, so ya...
both Azreal and Grape, pushed at me for literally no reason at all
I feel like I am just so much better than Vezok outside mechanics
and I put myself into such a suboptimal position with my claim for literally no reason
True, there seemed to always be someone who was a better target than you
well played, you managed to elude everyone by bussing your own partner day 1
@vezok
did you ever answer why you originally lied about your ability being random?
cause from what it seems, you can choose the ability you get from a town lynch?
I want Last then shadow and then Axelrod to claim. At the moment my info points to tom being 90% scum, but I require a mass claim to be 100%.
what exactly was this about?
I haven't lied about anything. My ability is random. If I was able to choose I would've taken anything else except the motion detector most of the time.
And I already explained what was that about.
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Last Whisper: Technically, started as Syrenz, who only had 4 posts. In those 4 posts, however, if he's scum, then the scum showed a fair bit of distancing tactics, as Syrenz's one vote went to Tom, and he also garnered "suspicion" from Az. It was a weak and weird kind of suspicion, though, and Az was actually called out for it by Cantrip. Overall, I don't think Syrenz's posts are +/- for LW being scum.
Last is spammy, and his posts are hard to read. Last was immediately defensive of Tom. He also posts very self-aware stuff like this:
if Tom's train ever becomes Large, he is just town, or his partners are bussing him, which if day chat exists, he would give them hell for
I'll re-evaluate if Tom's train ever gets large and a counter train seems to approach, else no thanks
We don't know why Syrenz left the game, but, considering his first vote was for Tom....
Here's a post that seems a bit less likely to come from a scumbuddy. At the least it would be pretty harsh.
@azreal
slamming a bunch of one-liners into a wall post, if you end up flipping wolf here, ill be highly disappointed, I expected more from the legendary Azrael
Later he says
I don't really think he has done anything wolfy, but I'd be lying if I didnt expect more from him based on what I've been told
I'd say Day-chat makes it more possible, as they could have been talking about it. He lands on Az being town though. Which is kind of strange.
He does join the Az wagon, for a bit, but he never really goes after Az. His one point is that he says he doesn't like how Az voted for Syrenz and never explained why. But overall, he repeatedly says he doesn't really think Az is very scummy (just playing badly?) It was an extremely middle-of-the-road vote. And unvoted once Az started making longer posts.
His "reads" posts is in #814, has Tom in Town leans and Az above Null, but Grape in "possible Scum." A little noteworthy in as much as he hasn't had a lot to say about Grape. He invalidates most of it immediately with "there might be some inconsistencies, who knows, this is off the top of my head."
He then defended Az after Az's claim, and joined the Fuwa counter-wagon. Here's that odd remark again:
Azreal did exactly what he needed to do as either a wolf or villager, and whoever stated that he stopped trying after his train died down, is literally just trying to blow smoke to get his train back up, especially when Azreal stated he can't play like he used to
Just let it go, we can easily evaluate Azrael as the days go on, I think from his play here that he 99% of the time flips town, and wolves were just beating a dead horse over and over
There are, as far as I can see, no hints/tells/claims made about his role during D1 at all. That's not +/- in itself, if you have a strong role that needs to survive, you would want to stay under wraps, but I think it's somewhat noteworthy given all the hinting he does on D2.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Also I need to be on the lynch wagon for reasons. I will vote players if they are close to being lynched even if I believe they are town
This leads to him being widely Town-read, because, what scum is going to say something like that in their first post of the game? It's really genius if he's scum. Allows him to be on lynches that he can still criticize. Zero accountability. The risk, of course, is that if you are going to make a claim like this in your first post of the game, you had best be able to back it up later. What ability do you have that needs to be lynching Townies?
Scum day-chat again makes this a little more plausible than if they didn't have it, as it could have been a group planned gambit/strategy. The fact that the missing scum role is apparently "day-killer" however, just doesn't seem to fit with this. Vez is never going to be able to prove a claim of any ability if all he is is scum daykiller. So he's, what, just hoping that he's never going to be checked/tracked/watched/copped etc. for the entire game? Just a hugely risky thing to do, imo.
If he's scum he voted Syrenz in his first post (RVS, sure) and then Grape as his first "serious" vote. Quickly shifted onto Killjoy, however. Then moved to Chris. I don't have any real issues for how his votes are moving. Nothing stands out as especially suspicious. He moves onto Az when Az gets to L-2 for the reasons
I remember that Az likes playing town more than scum and this certainly doesn't look like Az enjoying anything. This isn't the main reason I think he is scum, but it certainly don't help his case.
I don't like the fact that he gave some terrible reads with awful reasoning. I also need to be on the lynch wagon and L-2 is too close for my liking
And, again, this is just kind of genius if he's actually scum. It's a bus in that case, but not a real hard bus - in fact - he's almost saying he thinks Az might flip Town but still wants to be on the wagon because that's how he gets his ability. It's a weird position for scum-Vez, because his claim means he literally almost can't NOT vote for scumbuddies. If he claims he is reading them as scum, he votes for them. If he claims he is reading them as Town he...still votes for them. I mean, yes, he can argue against the lynch of a scumbuddy up until the point where it looks like he's a goner, but then, he's put himself in a position where his claim means he should vote for them.
He then counter-claims Az's JOAT claim. And, again, here he's really putting himself in a spot if he's scum. Before, he just was claiming some unknown reason why he had to be on Town lynches. Now he's claiming JOAT. So, not just one ability, but multiple. Does the scum day-killer who can't prove anything (except a day-kill, obv.) do this? We might say, in hindsight, that he had planned to claim this "random" ability thing, and so, maybe he could always just claim an ability that can't be proven/disproven. But he's still doing this in the face of zero information about what abilities the Town might have. Just super-risky. And now he's slam-dunking his teammate on top of that?
Continues the hard push against Az in #959 in the face of Sir Chris defending Az.
He then joins the Fuwa wagon in #1183. And here, again, I guess we see the genuis if Vez is scum, because he has set himself up perfectly for this. He says he doesn't want to lynch Fuwa. But he needs to be on the lynch if it is going to happen. This was the point when the votes had already shifted rapidly from Az to Fuwa, and Vez played no part in that. He seconds the request for deadline extension, but it's not to save Az in this instance. It seems like it's actually to save Fuwa. Does he do that, as scum?
I don't see anything especially suspicious in D1 Vez. He's not a high-content poster, but it's fine. And the play seems consistent with the claim. And the claim is just some kind of next-level genius if it's a scum gambit.
Advantage: Vez.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
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There have been many sub-optimal choices made this game, I think.
Mechanically Vezok is always a wolf to me now
vote: Vezok
Oh I am confirmed town either way hooray.
As is Shadow. Hooray.
Vezok should have been murdered days ago and he started day 2 suspecting not tom UH OH.
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I have five abilities: one of them is a deck cop. Another one is a track. The third one is a motion detector (i know if the target used abilities or had abilities used on them). The fourth is a doc and the fifth is a bodyguard.
I used doc on night 3 on axelrod I think. I will check after I post cause I'm on the phone.
I used the motion detector on night 4 on tom and got a positive result. I thought that made him scum if nobody claimed any ability used on him. I still thought there was a chance he might be town, but I figured out later that it was impossible regardless of my ability.
So yeah, last is scum from my point of view.
He's the only one with an unverifiable ability.
vote last
Please don't rush this guys. I know I was horribly wrong on tom and kj, but I don't want to lose this game in LyLo due to me.
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Last’s ability to revive has some weird overlap with both me and Axel. Can I get your take Axel?
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Town -...what?
If your role is "Daykiller," do you, as scum, lie in your very first post of the game? And then proceed to concoct this very elaborate claim that risks being counterclaimed/disproven/caught at multiple points?
Which sort of beings me round to another thing I was contemplating but didn't really want to believe which is that maybe, maybe? the daykilling could have been some kind of collective/group ability thing and not just one scum's role? That would just be so super-powerful though, and I think me and Proph would have...words...if that turned out to be the case.
@Shadow
I was hoping for more information going into the day we lynched Tom, Chris and me were probably never dying, so I just waited
nothing happened so I just stuck with Chris since he was pretty much the only decent option
and if let's say hypothetically I come up with this very elaborate role, with the counters and *****, there is 0 reason for me not to just claim I had the check since yesterday
@Vezok
Secondly, focusing on the vigilante is pointless, either one of us is lying about our role, or he got the vig by other means
Ohh, my role name has no mention of anything but my parity cop
Town one-shot parity cop
I am town and I am exactly as I claim
probably, but I don't always make the best choices
Vote Count 6.1
vezokpiraka (1): Lastwhisper
Lastwhisper (1): vezokpiraka
Abstain (2): shadowlancerx, Sir Chris
With 4 alive, it takes 3 votes to lynch.
Day 6 will end at 11:59PM EST, Tuesday, October 3rd.
His last post is obviously inconsistent with the current claim - the cop is "delayed" and can't be used until a certain day. And it is definitely convenient, in hindsight, that he had an "Investigative" that would have required us to let him live to D5 to show it off.
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but ya yikes on my earlier posts, I was in between breadcrumbing and not wanting to claim ***** all together, so I was all over the place
going to sleep, I work all day tomorrow, so can y'all chill
(Seriously, stop posting Wifom-y crap and answer questions, it’s a better use of posting time, and I want to get this right)
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well night 4 came around, and Cross reminded me of my ability
I thought about it, and decide that I wanted to wait
maybe it was bad play, but given the chance of me dying was almost 0%, I decided to wait for more info
I dont know how much deeper in detail I can go
also this wifomy crap is stuff you should be taking into consideration given our situation
I have back to back work, so ill be on tomorrow
I wanted to target cantrip with the doc, but I asked the mod and the asceticezer would block my doc so I decided against it. I then thought I'd save the one of the towniest people and chose axelord. My other choice would have been Vaimes and I felt kinda bad when he died and I didn't save him. I also thought about targeting cantrip or kj just to check if they really are what they claimed, but decided against it cause a doc is pretty powerful and I didn't want to waste.
I didn't really know what to do with the motion detector so I decided to target tom, because I thought that if my ability came back positive that meant he had a ability (low chance of being targeted by anyone) and that made him scum. I wasn't that sure that he was scum by then and still thought there might have been a way that scum were ******* with the abilities, but when cantrip died it was confirmed that tom was scum. I got caught up in the fact that I was right on all my reads up until KJ and still believed I'm right about tom.
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What is bad about this: There's no flavor really with needing to be on a Town lynch to get an ability that I see. There's a weird overlap with Chris's role and Chris's is strictly better, as he just gets his ability when a Town is lynched and Vez needs to be part of the actual mislynch. There's also overlap with Town on the actual abilities. Doc/Track were already Town abilities, and, in fact, there were two Doc abilities counting Osie's 1-shot, so this would be a third. He probably undersold the power of the role when he said - in response to Az's claim - that Az's role seemed so much better than his. Three of these abilities are just good. Deck Cop and Bodyguard are meh, but not useless either. Also would mean that there would be two town roles actually named "Jack-of-All-Trades."
What's good about this: As far as I can see, this is the only pure alignment investigative role claimed in the game. So, if LW is scum then the Town had no Cop role, period, not even a 1-shot. There is some flavor with Arclight Phoenix and being revived for a Day.
That's kind of it.
What's bad about this: I do not like how these abilities interact. "Thing in the Ice" is not an ability at all. It's just a timer. When it goes off...nothing happens. Except now he gets to use his other ability. That is weird to me. It would make so much more sense from a flavor perspective if the Thing in the Ice ability did something when it transformed. And there is no flavor connection between being Transformed and Surgical Extraction. Why do you have to be "Transformed" before you can Surgical Extract? They are just completely different things. And further, there is no connection between the Cop ability and the Phoenix ability. There are also just completely separate things. I was wrong earlier when I misread his claim and thought that if he was lynched his ability would not go off, only if he was NK. This claim is that if he dies "in any way" he will come back for the next cycle. So, this seems just a strictly better version of my ability. We both come back for one Day. But he gets to vote and everything. With a delayed Cop shot tacked onto it.
There is also some fuzziness associated with the ability being disabled in Ly/Lo situations. What count's? There are a lot of delayed abilities in this game, and many potential weird interactions. Like, what if Meg was alive right now. Or Osie. Or Cantrip. Some ability that could prevent a NK. Would this be Ly/Lo? Because theoretically, if they stop the NK, it's not. So is the ability disabled or not? If LW was lynched would he come back? Does Proph wait? And see who the Doc targets, and who the scum pick at night, before then deciding if the ability works or not? I don't like that very much.
He expressed that he was worried about surviving long enough to get his shot off, which is certainly reasonable. But then didn't do it. I find this incredible almost to the point of unbelievable. The fact he apparently felt no fear that he himself would be killed that night is almost irrelevant. You always go after who you think is scum there. We just mislynched for the second time. The game was no longer on easy-mode. It was going to be freaking Ly/Lo the next day. And you are waiting on the most powerful thing you can do in the game...because? And then, after we lynched Tom and he came up "Not Dayvig", targeting Chris was a bad choice. Chris was a proven Tracker at that time. Yes, there was some possibility of weird combo roles, but, really, the likelihood of Tracker/Dayvig. was remote. LW says he didn't think of that, so, okay, I guess. Still not optimal.
Advantage: Vez
I'm still the parity cop, I need to look over stuff
The possibility of their being a double role on mafia is not impossible or maybe the day vig or w/e the hell it was, was something else entirely, idk, all I know is that I'm the parity cop and I'm I'm not about to bite the dust because I played my role suboptimally
I wasn't going to check shadow, and I wasn't going to check vezok, Chris was the only option, his tracker claim didn't even cross my mind, I had forgotten
I don't have the best memory, sorry
So I read a bit and I have to say Vezok's progression early day one would be a really just odd angle to take for scum. He went from Grapefruit to KJ and then shaded Az for not being on board with KJ being scum. It makes it super believable that he would think KJ is scum for days and days when Az flipped scum and kind of checks out why he was all over KJ.
I think this is going to come down to "boy scum was stupid for killing the backup" if LW is indeed the last scum because all of that town power being alive (including me since yeah tracker + day vig is a strange combo!) has backfired massively and why I couldn't believe scum would be so stupid.
Treying to see the Vezok world here and all it is would be "he should be dead."
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in a world where the dayvig wasn't actually public, there would have been no reason for Tom to do all that ****ery, just to hide his role
I am literally just the parity cop, I recall bread-crumbing it a bunch early on, and then I stopped, and again during day 3? where I stated I had a reason for not wanting to lynch killjoy, given though that was a lie since I hadn't actually used my ability then and couldn't have anyways
Lmao that can't be that stupid since Vezok looks better than me currently, given a world where Vezok is town he should've been dead years ago
though that reasoning alone is shallow
kek
again there really isnt much I can say on the matter, IDK much about magic cards or standard decks
its disabled if a town lynch can lead to the mafia win, regardless of if there exists an ability that can stop the win, thats what mylo is, at least thats what I always thought it was
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well played, you managed to elude everyone by bussing your own partner day 1
@vezok
did you ever answer why you originally lied about your ability being random?
cause from what it seems, you can choose the ability you get from a town lynch?
I want Last then shadow and then Axelrod to claim. At the moment my info points to tom being 90% scum, but I require a mass claim to be 100%.
what exactly was this about?
both Azreal and Grape, pushed at me for literally no reason at all
I feel like I am just so much better than Vezok outside mechanics
and I put myself into such a suboptimal position with my claim for literally no reason
meh
I haven't lied about anything. My ability is random. If I was able to choose I would've taken anything else except the motion detector most of the time.
And I already explained what was that about.
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Vote Count 6.2
vezokpiraka (1): Lastwhisper
Lastwhisper (1): vezokpiraka
Abstain (2): shadowlancerx, Sir Chris
With 4 alive, it takes 3 votes to lynch.
Day 6 will end at 11:59PM EST October 3rd Thursday.
Last Whisper: Technically, started as Syrenz, who only had 4 posts. In those 4 posts, however, if he's scum, then the scum showed a fair bit of distancing tactics, as Syrenz's one vote went to Tom, and he also garnered "suspicion" from Az. It was a weak and weird kind of suspicion, though, and Az was actually called out for it by Cantrip. Overall, I don't think Syrenz's posts are +/- for LW being scum.
Last is spammy, and his posts are hard to read. Last was immediately defensive of Tom. He also posts very self-aware stuff like this: We don't know why Syrenz left the game, but, considering his first vote was for Tom....
Here's a post that seems a bit less likely to come from a scumbuddy. At the least it would be pretty harsh. Later he says I'd say Day-chat makes it more possible, as they could have been talking about it. He lands on Az being town though. Which is kind of strange.
He does join the Az wagon, for a bit, but he never really goes after Az. His one point is that he says he doesn't like how Az voted for Syrenz and never explained why. But overall, he repeatedly says he doesn't really think Az is very scummy (just playing badly?) It was an extremely middle-of-the-road vote. And unvoted once Az started making longer posts.
His "reads" posts is in #814, has Tom in Town leans and Az above Null, but Grape in "possible Scum." A little noteworthy in as much as he hasn't had a lot to say about Grape. He invalidates most of it immediately with "there might be some inconsistencies, who knows, this is off the top of my head."
He then defended Az after Az's claim, and joined the Fuwa counter-wagon. Here's that odd remark again: There are, as far as I can see, no hints/tells/claims made about his role during D1 at all. That's not +/- in itself, if you have a strong role that needs to survive, you would want to stay under wraps, but I think it's somewhat noteworthy given all the hinting he does on D2.
Scum day-chat again makes this a little more plausible than if they didn't have it, as it could have been a group planned gambit/strategy. The fact that the missing scum role is apparently "day-killer" however, just doesn't seem to fit with this. Vez is never going to be able to prove a claim of any ability if all he is is scum daykiller. So he's, what, just hoping that he's never going to be checked/tracked/watched/copped etc. for the entire game? Just a hugely risky thing to do, imo.
If he's scum he voted Syrenz in his first post (RVS, sure) and then Grape as his first "serious" vote. Quickly shifted onto Killjoy, however. Then moved to Chris. I don't have any real issues for how his votes are moving. Nothing stands out as especially suspicious. He moves onto Az when Az gets to L-2 for the reasons And, again, this is just kind of genius if he's actually scum. It's a bus in that case, but not a real hard bus - in fact - he's almost saying he thinks Az might flip Town but still wants to be on the wagon because that's how he gets his ability. It's a weird position for scum-Vez, because his claim means he literally almost can't NOT vote for scumbuddies. If he claims he is reading them as scum, he votes for them. If he claims he is reading them as Town he...still votes for them. I mean, yes, he can argue against the lynch of a scumbuddy up until the point where it looks like he's a goner, but then, he's put himself in a position where his claim means he should vote for them.
He then counter-claims Az's JOAT claim. And, again, here he's really putting himself in a spot if he's scum. Before, he just was claiming some unknown reason why he had to be on Town lynches. Now he's claiming JOAT. So, not just one ability, but multiple. Does the scum day-killer who can't prove anything (except a day-kill, obv.) do this? We might say, in hindsight, that he had planned to claim this "random" ability thing, and so, maybe he could always just claim an ability that can't be proven/disproven. But he's still doing this in the face of zero information about what abilities the Town might have. Just super-risky. And now he's slam-dunking his teammate on top of that?
Continues the hard push against Az in #959 in the face of Sir Chris defending Az.
He then joins the Fuwa wagon in #1183. And here, again, I guess we see the genuis if Vez is scum, because he has set himself up perfectly for this. He says he doesn't want to lynch Fuwa. But he needs to be on the lynch if it is going to happen. This was the point when the votes had already shifted rapidly from Az to Fuwa, and Vez played no part in that. He seconds the request for deadline extension, but it's not to save Az in this instance. It seems like it's actually to save Fuwa. Does he do that, as scum?
I don't see anything especially suspicious in D1 Vez. He's not a high-content poster, but it's fine. And the play seems consistent with the claim. And the claim is just some kind of next-level genius if it's a scum gambit.
Advantage: Vez.