Can someone please tell me why we're massclaiming now?
@tom: Yes, I expected you to shoot me. You were batting around the idea that I was scum, and I don't recall you saying much to anything about dkings even possibly being scum. Like I said, I was objectively more scummy than dk, and yet you shot him instead.
@Axel: About 3 hours. Force replace is great in wordpad.
@everyone saying my effort counts for nothing: Sure, but my analysis does. I've been known to put too much effort into things, but decent analysis is something I struggle with achieving so if y'all could at least look at it that would be great.
Vex: You said that I am unlikely to be scum, but I'm still on your scum picks. Explain plx.
My current grouping for possible scum is in [tom/Vaimes/KCC/Last]. I would vote tom but I think there's 4 votes on him now? and we're not done talking yet.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
My current grouping for possible scum is in [tom/Vaimes/KCC/Last]. I would vote tom but I think there's 4 votes on him now? and we're not done talking yet.
My current grouping for possible scum is in [tom/Vaimes/KCC/Last]. I would vote tom but I think there's 4 votes on him now? and we're not done talking yet.
Tom, Last, and the people voting tom other than me.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Also no scumteam is gonna pop in and hammer tom and expect to get away with it.
For all we know, it nearly happened with the grapefruit lynch. It also could have happened with the Azrael lynch.
Not even necessarily nearly happened. Like, I don't think Cantrip + Last, Cantrip + Axel, Cantrip+Killjoy, or Cantrip+Shadow is the exact team, but I'm not opposed to the idea of it.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
For real guys? Suggesting that it would be b*stard modding to have a redirect that isn’t explicit is stupid; could be a busdrive or virtually anything impacting here, and by role and behavior Tom is not really in the more likely to be scum category.
@vaimes: can you actually go through your read on Tom? You seem extra bloodlusty.
@Tom: would you be interested in sharing any parts of your Cantrip read from day one that you haven’t yet?
But in no world is a redirect/busdrive/whatever bastard, and its a pretty pointless role if theyre informed. Generally an info role will have the name of the target in the results, anything else gets no feedback.
But it doesnt matter anyway its obviously not clearing...
If i was scum with any way to mess with cantrip i certainly would have
@tom: Yes, I expected you to shoot me. You were batting around the idea that I was scum, and I don't recall you saying much to anything about dkings even possibly being scum. Like I said, I was objectively more scummy than dk, and yet you shot him instead.
@Tom: would you be interested in sharing any parts of your Cantrip read from day one that you haven’t yet?
full disclosure: no memory what all i shared
I was first looking for that same vibe from otg. Kept not being there. There was one wall specifically where he kept up, like, a strong tone while interacting with different people that would be a pretty far cry from that meta
After that it was a bunch of watching him react to me town reading him with, like, optimistic wariness with me pocketing him in the back of his mind and it just steadily stregthened.
And im not sure what hed be doing right now as scum. Just like... winding up to the craziest fakeclaim of all time for no reason?
Doesnt compute
Y’all are bloodthirsty, first you want to piledrive Osie, and now you want to piledrive onto Tom, who in my book has been pretty townie
IMO this game is “close” to auto, but complacency will lose us this game, and I refuse to believe that Tom managed to pull a claim out of his ass despite the flavor heaviness of this game literally being the reason why Azrael was outed day 1, and there is also no reason Why Tom even has to fake claim, unless someone can come up with a reason for that
Is it still 10x more likely that Cantrip’s info got manipulated somehow
The wolves in this case pretty much allowed both Azreal and Grape to die, so either they are weaker players, they are deep enough that it doesn’t matter, or lastly they still have strong roles in play that they aren’t worried about being mechanically caught, or again, they are the ones who tried to vote Tom last phase to save Grape
Cantrip being targeted doesn’t mean that it was the case of them protecting Tom, it just means they were worried about a vig, and we are making it about Tom. Honestly, Why is it that Osie didn’t get targeted by the possible redirector or bus driver, given his abilities? I want to believe it’s because he is a wolf despite me believing that he doesn’t defend wolf!Grape the way he did as partners
Speculating on the whys of night actions is just pretty awful overall tho
“Your target does not have infect w/e” doesn’t mean the mod is lying it just means he gave Cantrip information based on who he may or may not have targeted
any
I still do not want to place my vote yet, but if Chris is off the table for whoever the hell knows, then Osie is still the better option, or the option I’m more against, Killjoy
Literally 11 days left of day 3, there is no reason to jump to conclusions, though I'm not worried that anyone is getting hammered this early, since its god awful play from both mafia and town
*end rant*
my internet came back, but I'm going to sleep as it is 2 am
I remain comfortable with my vote and have no intention of voting Tom today.
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Y’all are bloodthirsty, first you want to piledrive Osie, and now you want to piledrive onto Tom, who in my book has been pretty townie
IMO this game is “close” to auto, but complacency will lose us this game, and I refuse to believe that Tom managed to pull a claim out of his ass despite the flavor heaviness of this game literally being the reason why Azrael was outed day 1, and there is also no reason Why Tom even has to fake claim, unless someone can come up with a reason for that
Is it still 10x more likely that Cantrip’s info got manipulated somehow
The wolves in this case pretty much allowed both Azreal and Grape to die, so either they are weaker players, they are deep enough that it doesn’t matter, or lastly they still have strong roles in play that they aren’t worried about being mechanically caught, or again, they are the ones who tried to vote Tom last phase to save Grape
Cantrip being targeted doesn’t mean that it was the case of them protecting Tom, it just means they were worried about a vig, and we are making it about Tom. Honestly, Why is it that Osie didn’t get targeted by the possible redirector or bus driver, given his abilities? I want to believe it’s because he is a wolf despite me believing that he doesn’t defend wolf!Grape the way he did as partners
Speculating on the whys of night actions is just pretty awful overall tho
“Your target does not have infect w/e” doesn’t mean the mod is lying it just means he gave Cantrip information based on who he may or may not have targeted
any
I still do not want to place my vote yet, but if Chris is off the table for whoever the hell knows, then Osie is still the better option, or the option I’m more against, Killjoy
Literally 11 days left of day 3, there is no reason to jump to conclusions, though I'm not worried that anyone is getting hammered this early, since its god awful play from both mafia and town
*end rant*
my internet came back, but I'm going to sleep as it is 2 am
Just putting this out there: I would have hard-bussed Grapefruit into the ground, had we been on a team this game.
i mean you were so worried last day phase, but not as much this phase, does 1 less scum really change the whole, "Town is self-destructing read"?
Nah. I still think going for the "these are easy lynches" strategy is likely to come back to bite us, but the POE is small enough that it really doesn't matter that much:
There's 6 relatively universal townreads. Unless one of those 6 is scum, the game is solved. Even if I'm mislynched, the game is still probably solved within those other 4, though it's possible that there's a deepwolf...
Shadow - Probably town
Vaimes - Probably town
vezok - Probably town
Axel - Ehh, probably town
KCC - Ehh, probably town
Wisp - Ehh, probably town
Osie please explain how you went from defending me to attacking me.
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@osie
ya I forgot this site likes to buss rather than try to defend their partners
Im still having a hard time understanding you putting Axel as an "ehh, possible town" read
I cant see how you dont have Cantrip as like one of your highest town reads, it still feels like fake paranoia
though Ill give you that I am a little doubtful that this game ends with the PoE of Chris/Killjoy/Osie
which goes back to my thoughts of a possible deep wolf, or heavy bussers
Osie please explain how you went from defending me to attacking me.
I had you as likely town due in particular to some of your AtEs and effort posts but you are an easy lynch choice as far as the game state is concerned, regardless of actual alignment. I think you're exaggerating "attacking", though.
@osie
ya I forgot this site likes to buss rather than try to defend their partners
Im still having a hard time understanding you putting Axel as an "ehh, possible town" read
I cant see how you dont have Cantrip as like one of your highest town reads, it still feels like fake paranoia
I put the mechanical likeliness of one of tom and Cantrip being scum a little higher than most. I also firmly believe that Cantrip is skilled enough as a wolf to be scum here.
Axel I'm mostly just tinfoiling. I'm townreading him more than most (if not all) of my probably town on behavior, but there's some potential for Axel worlds.
Osie please explain how you went from defending me to attacking me.
I had you as likely town due in particular to some of your AtEs and effort posts but you are an easy lynch choice as far as the game state is concerned, regardless of actual alignment. I think you're exaggerating "attacking", though.
I am so confused right now
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Osie please explain how you went from defending me to attacking me.
I had you as likely town due in particular to some of your AtEs and effort posts but you are an easy lynch choice as far as the game state is concerned, regardless of actual alignment. I think you're exaggerating "attacking", though.
I am so confused right now
You do link easily to Az and Grape. I felt (and still somewhat feel) that you had a lot of townie energy, but I'm not certain.
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@osie
ya I forgot this site likes to buss rather than try to defend their partners
Im still having a hard time understanding you putting Axel as an "ehh, possible town" read
I cant see how you dont have Cantrip as like one of your highest town reads, it still feels like fake paranoia
I put the mechanical likeliness of one of tom and Cantrip being scum a little higher than most. I also firmly believe that Cantrip is skilled enough as a wolf to be scum here.
Axel I'm mostly just tinfoiling. I'm townreading him more than most (if not all) of my probably town on behavior, but there's some potential for Axel worlds.
@osie
ya I forgot this site likes to buss rather than try to defend their partners
Im still having a hard time understanding you putting Axel as an "ehh, possible town" read
I cant see how you dont have Cantrip as like one of your highest town reads, it still feels like fake paranoia
I put the mechanical likeliness of one of tom and Cantrip being scum a little higher than most. I also firmly believe that Cantrip is skilled enough as a wolf to be scum here.
Axel I'm mostly just tinfoiling. I'm townreading him more than most (if not all) of my probably town on behavior, but there's some potential for Axel worlds.
oh now i get it
Tryna chain lynch me and cantrip
Nope. Because Cantrip has much lower scum equity than you do.
@osie
ya I forgot this site likes to buss rather than try to defend their partners
Im still having a hard time understanding you putting Axel as an "ehh, possible town" read
I cant see how you dont have Cantrip as like one of your highest town reads, it still feels like fake paranoia
I put the mechanical likeliness of one of tom and Cantrip being scum a little higher than most. I also firmly believe that Cantrip is skilled enough as a wolf to be scum here.
Axel I'm mostly just tinfoiling. I'm townreading him more than most (if not all) of my probably town on behavior, but there's some potential for Axel worlds.
oh now i get it
Tryna chain lynch me and cantrip
Also, you throwing shade my way when I'm town is par for the course regardless of your alignment, so if you are in fact town (which I highly doubt given your fake claim), your regular intentionally NAI behavior might finally come back to bite you.
IMO this game is “close” to auto, but complacency will lose us this game, and I refuse to believe that Tom managed to pull a claim out of his ass despite the flavor heaviness of this game literally being the reason why Azrael was outed day 1, and there is also no reason Why Tom even has to fake claim, unless someone can come up with a reason for that
Is it still 10x more likely that Cantrip’s info got manipulated somehow
Didn't hit this the first time around. Is it really 10x more likely, or is this just false, and hyperbole? Also this:
I have a really hard time reading really good or really bad players, and to me, you fall under a very good player because you very good at being neutral
"I told you so" is something I would never say, laughing in the face of players is what scum do, I am trying my best to evaluate a slot that is extremely hard to evaluate
@Tom
how about you get off that fence you are so happily sitting on...
you are playing a very neutral game here, more obnoxiously than games I've been physically in with you
Idk what it means yet, but all I know is that I haven't been a fan of your half-baked stances this game
So...
Unvote, vote tom
tomsloger (3): KittyCupCake, osieorb18, Vaimes
Lastwhisper (1): shadowlancerx
osieorb18 (1): Axelrod
Abstain (3): Cantripmancer, Lastwhisper, Killjoy
@tom: Yes, I expected you to shoot me. You were batting around the idea that I was scum, and I don't recall you saying much to anything about dkings even possibly being scum. Like I said, I was objectively more scummy than dk, and yet you shot him instead.
@Axel: About 3 hours. Force replace is great in wordpad.
@everyone saying my effort counts for nothing: Sure, but my analysis does. I've been known to put too much effort into things, but decent analysis is something I struggle with achieving so if y'all could at least look at it that would be great.
Vex: You said that I am unlikely to be scum, but I'm still on your scum picks. Explain plx.
My current grouping for possible scum is in [tom/Vaimes/KCC/Last]. I would vote tom but I think there's 4 votes on him now? and we're not done talking yet.
Vote Tom
Kind of silly to do when we've only lynched scum so far, and we're not at a point where claiming will like, totally nab the last two.
Tom, Last, and the people voting tom other than me.
so that if tom is town, scum can't hammer yet.
Willing to vote tom again, or possibly Killjoy.
Osie: scum can't hammer at L-2. Tom was at 4 not 5.
Yes they can, if there's two scum members remaining. Unless you know something about the composition of the wagon that you aren't telling us?
For all we know, it nearly happened with the grapefruit lynch. It also could have happened with the Azrael lynch.
Not even necessarily nearly happened. Like, I don't think Cantrip + Last, Cantrip + Axel, Cantrip+Killjoy, or Cantrip+Shadow is the exact team, but I'm not opposed to the idea of it.
Vote: tomsloger
So I'll see y'all another day
@vaimes: can you actually go through your read on Tom? You seem extra bloodlusty.
@Tom: would you be interested in sharing any parts of your Cantrip read from day one that you haven’t yet?
But in no world is a redirect/busdrive/whatever bastard, and its a pretty pointless role if theyre informed. Generally an info role will have the name of the target in the results, anything else gets no feedback.
But it doesnt matter anyway its obviously not clearing...
If i was scum with any way to mess with cantrip i certainly would have
Kj (3): tom, Chris, vezok
Last (1): shadow
osi (1): Axel
Abstain (2): Cantrip, Last
Reads not really changing here.
Im just narcissistic enough to believe in kj/osi team outing themselves the rest of the way to lynch me
I was first looking for that same vibe from otg. Kept not being there. There was one wall specifically where he kept up, like, a strong tone while interacting with different people that would be a pretty far cry from that meta
After that it was a bunch of watching him react to me town reading him with, like, optimistic wariness with me pocketing him in the back of his mind and it just steadily stregthened.
And im not sure what hed be doing right now as scum. Just like... winding up to the craziest fakeclaim of all time for no reason?
Doesnt compute
IMO this game is “close” to auto, but complacency will lose us this game, and I refuse to believe that Tom managed to pull a claim out of his ass despite the flavor heaviness of this game literally being the reason why Azrael was outed day 1, and there is also no reason Why Tom even has to fake claim, unless someone can come up with a reason for that
Is it still 10x more likely that Cantrip’s info got manipulated somehow
The wolves in this case pretty much allowed both Azreal and Grape to die, so either they are weaker players, they are deep enough that it doesn’t matter, or lastly they still have strong roles in play that they aren’t worried about being mechanically caught, or again, they are the ones who tried to vote Tom last phase to save Grape
Cantrip being targeted doesn’t mean that it was the case of them protecting Tom, it just means they were worried about a vig, and we are making it about Tom. Honestly, Why is it that Osie didn’t get targeted by the possible redirector or bus driver, given his abilities? I want to believe it’s because he is a wolf despite me believing that he doesn’t defend wolf!Grape the way he did as partners
Speculating on the whys of night actions is just pretty awful overall tho
“Your target does not have infect w/e” doesn’t mean the mod is lying it just means he gave Cantrip information based on who he may or may not have targeted
any
I still do not want to place my vote yet, but if Chris is off the table for whoever the hell knows, then Osie is still the better option, or the option I’m more against, Killjoy
Literally 11 days left of day 3, there is no reason to jump to conclusions, though I'm not worried that anyone is getting hammered this early, since its god awful play from both mafia and town
*end rant*
my internet came back, but I'm going to sleep as it is 2 am
Still, can we lynch KJ already? I've been hounding him since day 1 and he still somehow gets under the radar to let other scum come forth.
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Still below null but a tier above osi
2 out of you/Cantrip/Chris probably.
Just putting this out there: I would have hard-bussed Grapefruit into the ground, had we been on a team this game.
Nah. I still think going for the "these are easy lynches" strategy is likely to come back to bite us, but the POE is small enough that it really doesn't matter that much:
There's 6 relatively universal townreads. Unless one of those 6 is scum, the game is solved. Even if I'm mislynched, the game is still probably solved within those other 4, though it's possible that there's a deepwolf...
Shadow - Probably town
Vaimes - Probably town
vezok - Probably town
Axel - Ehh, probably town
KCC - Ehh, probably town
Wisp - Ehh, probably town
Cantrip, Killjoy, Sir Chris, osieorb18, tomsloger
Osie is still sane World: tomsloger/Cantripmancer + Killjoy
OMGWTFBBQ World: Vezok + Shadow
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ya I forgot this site likes to buss rather than try to defend their partners
Im still having a hard time understanding you putting Axel as an "ehh, possible town" read
I cant see how you dont have Cantrip as like one of your highest town reads, it still feels like fake paranoia
which goes back to my thoughts of a possible deep wolf, or heavy bussers
I had you as likely town due in particular to some of your AtEs and effort posts but you are an easy lynch choice as far as the game state is concerned, regardless of actual alignment. I think you're exaggerating "attacking", though.
I put the mechanical likeliness of one of tom and Cantrip being scum a little higher than most. I also firmly believe that Cantrip is skilled enough as a wolf to be scum here.
Axel I'm mostly just tinfoiling. I'm townreading him more than most (if not all) of my probably town on behavior, but there's some potential for Axel worlds.
I am so confused right now
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You do link easily to Az and Grape. I felt (and still somewhat feel) that you had a lot of townie energy, but I'm not certain.
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@osie
You are so inconsistent, and super fencesitty on everyone imo
Anyways maybe I'm overthinking this
Do you mean like 2320?
unvote vote osie
A. That's not what I was referring to in context.
B. Nice smear job.
Tryna chain lynch me and cantrip
Nope. Because Cantrip has much lower scum equity than you do.
Also, you throwing shade my way when I'm town is par for the course regardless of your alignment, so if you are in fact town (which I highly doubt given your fake claim), your regular intentionally NAI behavior might finally come back to bite you.
Show posts that tom wouldn't make as scum, or you're just posting positions without reasons behind them.
Didn't hit this the first time around. Is it really 10x more likely, or is this just false, and hyperbole? Also this: