PoE
Osie
Last
killjoyThis is where I’m feeling currently. After wagon analysis I’ll revisit this, but I think I want to:
Vote Last
KJ is not much better. Osie has some points in his favor.
I do not believe that Last's Hammer of GF was a bus.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
PoE
Osie
Last
killjoyThis is where I’m feeling currently. After wagon analysis I’ll revisit this, but I think I want to:
Vote Last
KJ is not much better. Osie has some points in his favor.
I seriously cannot fathom how Axel is only in your townleans after he practically slam dunked Grape yesterDay.
I also think it's very unlikely that Killjoy is scum, and I still don't think Az was coaching Syrenz/Wisp, so I'm sorta wondering where your reads are coming from.
I would like Osie to state if he did a thing or not.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Axel: did you not also think that Az’s read of Grape was not a buddy interaction? Not saying that to discredit, but it’s an example of the scum play this game already being very strange. And I have better reasons for every other player to be town. (If you were not one of the people that thought that, sorry, going off memory)
Like, this is a tight PoE, and unless Chris is the worst powerwolfer ever or Vaimes is energeticly scum despite scum burnout, I’m not sure who else to drop into the PoE currently.
@Cantrip: I don’t remember that much from Axel yesterday (that’s on me) but sure, if he dunked Grape then higher is fine. Still think I had a pretty big hand in making Grape a wagon too.
But if you disagree with my PoE, who am I wrongly town reading?
@Axel: did you not also think that Az’s read of Grape was not a buddy interaction? Not saying that to discredit, but it’s an example of the scum play this game already being very strange. And I have better reasons for every other player to be town. (If you were not one of the people that thought that, sorry, going off memory)
Like, this is a tight PoE, and unless Chris is the worst powerwolfer ever or Vaimes is energeticly scum despite scum burnout, I’m not sure who else to drop into the PoE currently.
I mean, I did have that as a point in his favor. Though ultimately I decided it wasn't a very compelling point.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
*Skims Axel*
Oh yeah, he did come in hot at Grape. I should prolly look at context and timing just to make sure, but I’m fine with him being town. Doesn’t change my PoE.
Cantrip, couldn't we solve this easier if you claim what deck you got?
You're saying if I claim what deck "Tom" came up as? I didn't get a deck name, just "not Infect".
Hrm.
Please do not tell me you have an ability to ask if a player is a certain deck or not. And you asked if Tom was Infect. Instead of using the vig. ability you were implying you had.
I withdraw this question.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
On top of the fact that he was the counter claimed, and him picking a deck flavor out of a hat and just happening to not choose one that lines up with another.
Safe claims are a thing? I know usually that's used to combat flavor gaming, but I could picture it being used mechanically here, if I'm connecting dots properly.
Yo, Tom. Not sure if you answered this previously, but did you have to "play" those cards in the thread for your ability to go off like this, or were you just doing that for flavor funsies?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Going to stick with my one post where I had KJ/Grape as scum tbh.
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I doctored Vaimes and watched Vezok. Nobody targeted Vezok. It seems likely that nobody targeted Vaimes either.
Why on Earth would you Doc Vaimes? He was already protected by Meg from before?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
And Vez seems like asub-optimal choice as well. Scum know he has no ability since he claimed he needed to be on a Town lynch to get one.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
But wait, why would he claim that if he was scum!!!!????
Please no one make that argument.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
At this point I am pretty sure the scum team is just trying to make my head hurt.
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AZ: delayed joat - dont really know what was in here. He claimed some stuff but RB prolly the only real one? Presumably vanilla til n3 unless he had the bulletproof?
Grape: delayer/coroner - he might have actually trueclaimed? Not a whole lot of power here obviously.
rhand: vote granter - fun, but not really a role that effects balance
dkings: backup - very much goes with the spreading out of power in town roles. Weve mostly got limited shots or restrictions of some sort i think
megs: bp doc - probably gave out BPs, not <is bulletproof as well as doc>, but either way probably points to scum having a strongman
Me/cantrip vigs. Dont super want to speculate on his role further tbh, but im just 1 shot nothing fancy
Vezok/chris unlock on town death
Chris tracker, vezok unclaimed
Wisp has a passive or something?
Osi is choose 2 of <watcher/doc/neighbor/?>
Idk if claimed but clearly cryptic command flavor
Scum have to have more ways to mess with us.
Whatever screwed up cantrips results, some kind of protection/bp, and possibly an info role because of the spread out power?
Some amount of that could have been in AZs role. But not til lategame regardless. (balances with the unlocks/backup? Probably a good thing we got him early)
Expecting a fair amount of power in the remaining scum.
Probably not a great look for osi tbh. especially if christown
Cantrip - Restricted Night-Vig
Sir Chris - Town-Lynch Tracker
Tom - 1-shot Dayvig
Vezok - Wagoning JOAT-Esque
Wisp - ??? JOAT-Esque
Like, as far as I knew Meg hadn't claimed anything. I might have missed it on a read-through, especially if Beeboy claimed it.
Old Post:
All of this was written within an hour of the lynch.
First off, I want to say that despite the successful result, that was not a good wagon. The lack of reasoning, the lack of sense, was appalling. It was a LHF lynch. We can continue on that track, but getting lucky with Killjoy too? That's unlikely.
Second, I watched Vezok and doctored Vaimes last Night.
Third, I'm thinking 1-2 scum on the wagon, 0-1 off the wagon (not counting Grapefruit himself).
I don't know any more about this game. I still don't like tom or KCC and I like Cantrip and Axel less than before.
But if LHF lynches are the way to go, I guess Megiddo and Killjoy for the win. If it's that easy, I'll probably die inside somewhat. Whatever. For all I know, I'm wrong on everything this game and it's Vaimes+Vezok for the final two.
Azrael (6): Cantripmancer, shadowlancerx, KittyCupCake, Vaimes, Lastwhisper, Rhand
shadowlancerx (5): Sir Chris, Azrael, Killjoy, Megiddo, Grapefruit21 (I think this makes shadow unlikely to be scum. He's kinda a counter to Az, and had two scum on him during this time.)
Azrael (6): Cantripmancer, KittyCupCake, Vaimes, Rhand, dkingsland967, vezokpiraka
osieorb18 (4): Grapefruit21, Sir Chris, shadowlancerx, tomsloger (Grape starts a wagon on Osie that gets pretty big, and stays there while Az is getting lynched. That probably means Osie is town. I don't think Grape tries to kill his other scumbuddy to save Az.)
Killjoy (4): Sir Chris, vezokpiraka, Vaimes, Lastwhisper (My peak D2. I don't think scum could resist getting on this. There's probably one here.)
Sir Chris (3): Grapefruit21, KittyCupCake, Grapefruit21 (So, Grape had two votes on Chris here, and had one on him for most of the day. I think a scum doublevoter probably doesn't waste one of them on a buddy, then at L-1 throw the seond one on there. Chris lean town)
osieorb18 (7): Grapefruit21, Sir Chris, shadowlancerx, tomsloger, Cantripmancer, vezokpiraka, Lastwhisper (This may point ot Last being scum with Az: Last was abstaining until this vote, where he voted Osie and kept his vote there until Az got lynched. This may have been him trying to push osie counter to scum!Az.)
THERE'S PROBABLY SCUM IN
Cantrip/Axel/tom/shadow/vezok (my initial wagon)
Vaimes/Osie/Chris/KCC/Last (Under the assumption that there was only one scum on my initial wagon. Given the two scum that flipped were openly defending me, it's unlikely the other two were openly trying to lynch me, probably? That just seems logical)
shadow/tom/KCC (Meg wagon. I don't think it was pure)
vezok/Vaimes/Chris/last (my wagon d2)
PROBABLY NOT MORE THAN 1 SCUM IN
Osie/Chris (both were sitting on Grape for 6 votecounts)
shadow/tom (several wagons where they both were.)
tom/Cantrip (recent events)
tom/Last (Due to that Osie wagon end of D1, I wonder if there would have actually been 3 scum on the counter to Az.)
SUMMARY
Shadow is unlikely to be scum with Az and Grape due to counterwagoning.
Osie likely town for Grape's wagon on him getting big and Grape staying there with Az getting big as well.
Chris likely town for Grapes handling of him, but it didn't last long (hence green over blue)
LAst potentially scum with Az due to late day vote.
OTHER THINGS
I still don't like tom's handling of that daykill. Like, he actually should have killed me. The reason he gave just basically being "well, DK could have been fooling me" and the matter-of-fact tone of his answer to why he didn't kill me (likie I was expecting him to be like... passionate about it. Instead, I get a droll response. Not that tom solvy excitement. I feel like he never thought dk was ever scum) just gives me pause.
One of the things i plan to do today is go over last to see if he's last again or if he's not last still. He was tonally different and I didn't like it.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
PoE
Osie
Last
killjoyThis is where I’m feeling currently. After wagon analysis I’ll revisit this, but I think I want to:
Vote Last
KJ is not much better. Osie has some points in his favor.
I seriously cannot fathom how Axel is only in your townleans after he practically slam dunked Grape yesterDay.
I also think it's very unlikely that Killjoy is scum, and I still don't think Az was coaching Syrenz/Wisp, so I'm sorta wondering where your reads are coming from.
More things to do: investigate how true that is. Later though since I just did a Big Thing.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I've already read today and my super solid town read on tom has not budged.
Someone redirecting cantrip to town makes so much more sense then tom faking his flavour for *****s and giggles.
Although now that I see KJ's wagon analysis I kinda doubt you can actually be scun. How about we work together and find the scum instead of going after tom?
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I think primary credit for grape goes to shadow and axel
Like to think im next but eh
I want to look at Shadow again, but I feel that Axel was THE reason Grape got lunched. He was certainly the reason I voted Grape over Tom at the end. Walk me through why you think you're "next" in that lineup?
I doctored Vaimes and watched Vezok. Nobody targeted Vezok. It seems likely that nobody targeted Vaimes either.
I did a quick scan of Osie's iso and him not seeing Meg's claim is, unfortunately, believable. Meg claimed in 1785, a hundred posts after Fuwa's last post and about a hundred before Osie joined. It wasn't a hugely visible claim, either, and I didn't see Osie mention it or comment on it at all. It's really unfortunate, if Osie is town, that he missed that in his reread, because that could have made a huge difference.
Ok, my townbloc is:
Axel: There is no way--NO WAY--that scum!Axel halts the migration of Grape's wagon to Tom to highlight all those discrepancies and put the focus back on Grape. That would be the most epic bus EVAR, and I just can't believe it. Axel's been solvey all game. He's locktown for me, rest of the game, no backsies.
Vez: Early and abrasive counterclaim to Az would have been needlessly reckless. Strong town.
Osie: Pretty sure he's town for being Az's primary counterwagon. Not impossible that he's scum, but really really unlikely.
I'll go into more tomorrow. I have quite a bit I need to dig into, and not as much time as I'd like, but I'll make it happen.
I did a quick scan of Osie's iso and him not seeing Meg's claim is, unfortunately, believable. Meg claimed in 1785, a hundred posts after Fuwa's last post and about a hundred before Osie joined. It wasn't a hugely visible claim, either, and I didn't see Osie mention it or comment on it at all. It's really unfortunate, if Osie is town, that he missed that in his reread, because that could have made a huge difference.
Yeah, maybe?
But, I think it's far more important that scum shot at Meg at all.
Scum: "Oh, town has a claimed watcher? Let's not worry about that and just shoot right at the doc! It's fine!"
I mean, I know the scum play hasn't been stellar this game, but... can they really be simultaneously that awful and that lucky that Osie happened to completely botch his 1shot ability?
megs: bp doc - probably gave out BPs, not <is bulletproof as well as doc>, but either way probably points to scum having a strongman
Meg gifting a 1-shot bulletproof does indeed make more sense than he himself being bulletproof. On the plus side, maybe this means that Vaimes still has it, and it hangs around until it gets used up. No need for Vaimes to answer that one.
Cantrip - Restricted Night-Vig
Sir Chris - Town-Lynch Tracker
Tom - 1-shot Dayvig
Vezok - Wagoning JOAT-Esque
Wisp - ??? JOAT-Esque
But you did have Vez's claim, so you knew he was essentially vanilla last night. Why Watch him? One would think the scum would have other priorities than a Town with no abilities.
Old Post:
All of this was written within an hour of the lynch.
First off, I want to say that despite the successful result, that was not a good wagon. The lack of reasoning, the lack of sense, was appalling. It was a LHF lynch. We can continue on that track, but getting lucky with Killjoy too? That's unlikely.
Second, I watched Vezok and doctored Vaimes last Night.
Third, I'm thinking 1-2 scum on the wagon, 0-1 off the wagon (not counting Grapefruit himself).
I don't know any more about this game. I still don't like tom or KCC and I like Cantrip and Axel less than before.
But if LHF lynches are the way to go, I guess Megiddo and Killjoy for the win. If it's that easy, I'll probably die inside somewhat. Whatever. For all I know, I'm wrong on everything this game and it's Vaimes+Vezok for the final two.
You fired off your shot within an hour of the lynch? That seems quick.
And it's weird to me that you supposedly wrote this post before you even had your results.
We can have a nice discussion about how it was not, in fact, a bad wagon after the game.
I did a quick scan of Osie's iso and him not seeing Meg's claim is, unfortunately, believable. Meg claimed in 1785, a hundred posts after Fuwa's last post and about a hundred before Osie joined. It wasn't a hugely visible claim, either, and I didn't see Osie mention it or comment on it at all. It's really unfortunate, if Osie is town, that he missed that in his reread, because that could have made a huge difference.
I haven't looked yet. Taking this at face value...it's still bad. How sloppy do you have to be as Town to mess up this bad? On both shots of your ability?
Quote from KCC »
Yeah, maybe?
But, I think it's far more important that scum shot at Meg at all.
Scum: "Oh, town has a claimed watcher? Let's not worry about that and just shoot right at the doc! It's fine!"
I mean, I know the scum play hasn't been stellar this game, but... can they really be simultaneously that awful and that lucky that Osie happened to completely botch his 1shot ability?
So, this too.
There's even one more reason to be suspicious of Osie that hasn't been stated yet. Probably a minor point but it exists. I'm not sure it's worth bringing it out yet.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I have to give Killjoy some credit just for coloring all those vote counts. How long did that take?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Kinda toying with the massclaim idea, at this point how many people are unclaimed?
It's almost like you didn't even read what we wrote. You had Osie in your suspicious pile. What are the "points in his favor" that make Last a better target? Do you agree or not that his play was completely atrocious if actually Town?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
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???????????
I also think it's very unlikely that Killjoy is scum, and I still don't think Az was coaching Syrenz/Wisp, so I'm sorta wondering where your reads are coming from.
Of these options, I'm strongly leaning towards Osie being most likely scum
Like, this is a tight PoE, and unless Chris is the worst powerwolfer ever or Vaimes is energeticly scum despite scum burnout, I’m not sure who else to drop into the PoE currently.
But if you disagree with my PoE, who am I wrongly town reading?
I felt much better about him going into night as well
I think Tom might be caught scum, otherwise pretty good now. I might include Chris in the poe pile, but I'm way less confident in that read now.
Oh yeah, he did come in hot at Grape. I should prolly look at context and timing just to make sure, but I’m fine with him being town. Doesn’t change my PoE.
Like to think im next but eh
one last question
Cantrip, why did you pick Tom?
Only had to post the daykill part
Going to stick with my one post where I had KJ/Grape as scum tbh.
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You didn't watch or protect the claimed protection role?
Scum fearlessly shot the doctor with a claimed watcher in play?
Anyone else seeing a problem here?
You're not that bad?
Please no one make that argument.
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but
why would he claim that?
Grape: delayer/coroner - he might have actually trueclaimed? Not a whole lot of power here obviously.
rhand: vote granter - fun, but not really a role that effects balance
dkings: backup - very much goes with the spreading out of power in town roles. Weve mostly got limited shots or restrictions of some sort i think
megs: bp doc - probably gave out BPs, not <is bulletproof as well as doc>, but either way probably points to scum having a strongman
Me/cantrip vigs. Dont super want to speculate on his role further tbh, but im just 1 shot nothing fancy
Vezok/chris unlock on town death
Chris tracker, vezok unclaimed
Wisp has a passive or something?
Osi is choose 2 of <watcher/doc/neighbor/?>
Idk if claimed but clearly cryptic command flavor
Am i missing anything?
Whatever screwed up cantrips results, some kind of protection/bp, and possibly an info role because of the spread out power?
Some amount of that could have been in AZs role. But not til lategame regardless. (balances with the unlocks/backup? Probably a good thing we got him early)
Expecting a fair amount of power in the remaining scum.
Probably not a great look for osi tbh. especially if christown
Wat? Where? I didn't have that in my notes.
Like, as far as I knew Meg hadn't claimed anything. I might have missed it on a read-through, especially if Beeboy claimed it.
Old Post:
Anybody who is voting tom hasn't paid attention to this game at all.
It's time to kill the third scum in killjoy and then figure out the fourth one tomorrow.
vote killjoy
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I don't think you've read any posts since the day started.
Yeah, killjoy can wait.
vote osie
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READ. DAY. THREE. ALREADY.
osieorb18 (2): Grapefruit21, Cantripmancer
Cantripmancer (2): shadowlancerx, osieorb18
vezokpiraka (1): KittyCupCake
dkingsland967 (1): Rhand
Rhand (1): dkingsland967
Azrael (1): Killjoy
KittyCupCake (1): Axelrod
Abstain (7): Vaimes, Azrael, tomsloger, Sir Chris, vezokpiraka, Lastwhisper, Megiddo
Vote Count 1.2
Cantripmancer (3): shadowlancerx, osieorb18, Vaimes
KittyCupCake (2): Axelrod, tomsloger
osieorb18 (2): Grapefruit21, KittyCupCake
Lastwhisper (1): vezokpiraka
dkingsland967 (1): Rhand
Rhand (1): dkingsland967
Azrael (1): Killjoy
Abstain (5): Azrael, Sir Chris, Lastwhisper, Megiddo, Cantripmancer
Vote Count 1.3
Cantripmancer (3): shadowlancerx, osieorb18, Vaimes
osieorb18 (2): Grapefruit21, KittyCupCake
KittyCupCake (1): tomsloger
Lastwhisper (1): vezokpiraka
dkingsland967 (1): Rhand
Rhand (1): dkingsland967
Azrael (1): Killjoy
tomsloger (1): Axelrod
Abstain (5): Azrael, Sir Chris, Lastwhisper, Megiddo, Cantripmancer
Vote Count 1.4
Cantripmancer (3): shadowlancerx, osieorb18, Vaimes
osieorb18 (2): Grapefruit21, KittyCupCake
KittyCupCake (2): tomsloger, Azrael
Lastwhisper (1): vezokpiraka
Rhand (1): dkingsland967
Azrael (1): Killjoy
tomsloger (1): Axelrod
shadowlancerx (1): Megiddo
Megiddo (1): Rhand
Abstain (3): Sir Chris, Lastwhisper, Cantripmancer
Vote Count 1.5
Cantripmancer (2): osieorb18, Vaimes
osieorb18 (2): Grapefruit21, KittyCupCake
KittyCupCake (1): tomsloger
Rhand (1): dkingsland967
Azrael (1): Killjoy
tomsloger (1): Axelrod
shadowlancerx (1): Megiddo
Megiddo (1): Rhand
Lastwhisper (1): Azrael
Abstain (5): Sir Chris, Lastwhisper, Cantripmancer, vezokpiraka, shadowlancerx
Vote Count 1.6
Killjoy (3): dkingsland967, Rhand, Cantripmancer
Grapefruit21 (2): vezokpiraka, Sir Chris
Cantripmancer (2): osieorb18, Vaimes
osieorb18 (1): KittyCupCake
Rhand (1): Grapefruit21
Azrael (1): Killjoy
tomsloger (1): Axelrod
shadowlancerx (1): Megiddo
Lastwhisper (1): Azrael
Axelrod (1): tomsloger
Abstain (2): Lastwhisper, shadowlancerx
Vote Count 1.7
Killjoy (6): dkingsland967, Rhand, Cantripmancer, Axelrod, tomsloger, shadowlancerx
Grapefruit21 (2): vezokpiraka, Sir Chris
Cantripmancer (2): osieorb18, Vaimes
osieorb18 (1): KittyCupCake
Rhand (1): Grapefruit21
Azrael (1): Killjoy
shadowlancerx (1): Megiddo
Lastwhisper (1): Azrael
Abstain (1): Lastwhisper
Vote Count 1.8
Killjoy (6): dkingsland967, Rhand, Cantripmancer, Axelrod, tomsloger, vezokpiraka
Cantripmancer (2): osieorb18, Vaimes
Grapefruit21 (1): Sir Chris
osieorb18 (1): KittyCupCake
Rhand (1): Grapefruit21
shadowlancerx (1): Megiddo
Lastwhisper (1): Azrael
tomsloger (1): Lastwhisper
Abstain (2): Killjoy, shadowlancerx
Vote Count 1.9
Killjoy (5): dkingsland967, Rhand, Cantripmancer, tomsloger, vezokpiraka
Cantripmancer (2): osieorb18, Vaimes
Grapefruit21 (1): Sir Chris
osieorb18 (1): KittyCupCake
shadowlancerx (1): Megiddo
Lastwhisper (1): Azrael
tomsloger (1): Lastwhisper
Axelrod (1): Grapefruit21
Abstain (3): Killjoy, shadowlancerx, Axelrod
Vote Count 1.10
Killjoy (5): dkingsland967, Rhand, Cantripmancer, tomsloger, vezokpiraka
Grapefruit21 (2): Sir Chris, osieorb18
Cantripmancer (1): Vaimes
osieorb18 (1): KittyCupCake
shadowlancerx (1): Megiddo
Lastwhisper (1): Azrael
tomsloger (1): Lastwhisper
Axelrod (1): Grapefruit21
Megiddo (1): shadowlancerx
Abstain (2): Killjoy, Axelrod
Vote Count 1.11
Killjoy (4): dkingsland967, Cantripmancer, tomsloger, vezokpiraka
Grapefruit21 (2): Sir Chris, osieorb18
osieorb18 (2): KittyCupCake, Grapefruit21
Cantripmancer (1): Vaimes
shadowlancerx (1): Megiddo
Lastwhisper (1): Azrael
tomsloger (1): Lastwhisper
Megiddo (1): shadowlancerx
Azrael (1): Rhand
Abstain (2): Killjoy, Axelrod
Vote Count 1.12
osieorb18 (3): KittyCupCake, Grapefruit21, Rhand
Killjoy (2): dkingsland967, vezokpiraka
Grapefruit21 (2): Sir Chris, osieorb18
Cantripmancer (2): Vaimes, Lastwhisper
shadowlancerx (1): Megiddo
Lastwhisper (1): Azrael
Megiddo (1): shadowlancerx
Azrael (1): Cantripmancer
Vaimes (1): tomsloger
Abstain (2): Killjoy, Axelrod
Vote Count 1.13
osieorb18 (3): KittyCupCake, Grapefruit21, Rhand
Killjoy (2): dkingsland967, vezokpiraka
Grapefruit21 (2): Sir Chris, osieorb18
Cantripmancer (2): Vaimes, Lastwhisper
shadowlancerx (1): Megiddo
Lastwhisper (1): Azrael
Megiddo (1): shadowlancerx
Azrael (1): Cantripmancer
Vaimes (1): tomsloger
Abstain (2): Killjoy, Axelrod
Vote Count 1.14
Megiddo (4): shadowlancerx, dkingsland967, tomsloger, KittyCupCake
osieorb18 (2): Grapefruit21, Rhand
Grapefruit21 (2): Sir Chris, osieorb18
Cantripmancer (2): Vaimes, Lastwhisper
shadowlancerx (1): Megiddo
Lastwhisper (1): Azrael
Azrael (1): Cantripmancer
Killjoy (1): vezokpiraka
Abstain (2): Killjoy, Axelrod
Vote Count 1.15
Megiddo (5): shadowlancerx, dkingsland967, tomsloger, KittyCupCake, Rhand
Killjoy (2): vezokpiraka, Lastwhisper
Grapefruit21 (2): Sir Chris, osieorb18
Cantripmancer (1): Vaimes
shadowlancerx (1): Megiddo
Lastwhisper (1): Azrael
Azrael (1): Cantripmancer
osieorb18 (1): Grapefruit21
Abstain (2): Killjoy, Axelrod
Vote Count 1.16
Sir Chris (4): KittyCupCake, vezokpiraka, shadowlancerx, Lastwhisper
tomsloger (2): Rhand, Axelrod
Megiddo (2): dkingsland967, tomsloger
Grapefruit21 (2): Sir Chris, osieorb18
Cantripmancer (1): Vaimes
shadowlancerx (1): Megiddo
Lastwhisper (1): Azrael
Azrael (1): Cantripmancer
osieorb18 (1): Grapefruit21
Abstain (1): Killjoy
Vote Count 1.17
tomsloger (4): Rhand, Axelrod, Vaimes, Megiddo
Sir Chris (3): KittyCupCake, vezokpiraka, shadowlancerx
shadowlancerx (3): Sir Chris, Azrael, Lastwhisper
Megiddo (2): dkingsland967, tomsloger
Grapefruit21 (1): osieorb18
osieorb18 (1): Grapefruit21
Azrael (1): Cantripmancer
Abstain (1): Killjoy
Vote Count 1.18
shadowlancerx (5): Sir Chris, Azrael, Lastwhisper, Killjoy, Megiddo
tomsloger (3): Rhand, Axelrod, Vaimes
Sir Chris (3): KittyCupCake, vezokpiraka, shadowlancerx
Megiddo (2): dkingsland967, tomsloger
Grapefruit21 (1): osieorb18
osieorb18 (1): Grapefruit21
Azrael (1): Cantripmancer
Abstain (0)
Vote Count 1.19
Azrael (4): Cantripmancer, shadowlancerx, KittyCupCake, Lastwhisper
shadowlancerx (4): Sir Chris, Azrael, Killjoy, Megiddo
tomsloger (3): Rhand, Axelrod, Vaimes
Megiddo (2): dkingsland967, tomsloger
osieorb18 (1): Grapefruit21
Killjoy (1): vezokpiraka
Sir Chris (1): osieorb18
Abstain (0)
Vote Count 1.20
Azrael (5): Cantripmancer, shadowlancerx, KittyCupCake, Vaimes, Lastwhisper
shadowlancerx (5): Sir Chris, Azrael, Killjoy, Megiddo, Grapefruit21
tomsloger (2): Rhand, Axelrod
Megiddo (2): dkingsland967, tomsloger
Killjoy (1): vezokpiraka
Sir Chris (1): osieorb18
Abstain (0)
Vote Count 1.21
Azrael (6): Cantripmancer, shadowlancerx, KittyCupCake, Vaimes, Lastwhisper, Rhand
shadowlancerx (5): Sir Chris, Azrael, Killjoy, Megiddo, Grapefruit21
Sir Chris (2): osieorb18, vezokpiraka
tomsloger (1): Axelrod
Megiddo (1): tomsloger
Grapefruit21 (1): dkingsland967
Abstain (0)
Vote Count 1.22
Azrael (7): Cantripmancer, KittyCupCake, Vaimes, Rhand, tomsloger, dkingsland967, vezokpiraka
shadowlancerx (4): Sir Chris, Azrael, Killjoy, Megiddo
tomsloger (2): Axelrod, Grapefruit21
Sir Chris (1): osieorb18
Abstain (2): Lastwhisper, shadowlancerx
Vote Count 1.23
Azrael (7): Cantripmancer, KittyCupCake, Vaimes, Rhand, dkingsland967, vezokpiraka, shadowlancerx
shadowlancerx (4): Sir Chris, Azrael, Killjoy, Megiddo
tomsloger (2): Axelrod, Grapefruit21
Sir Chris (1): osieorb18
dkingsland967 (1): tomsloger
Abstain (1): Lastwhisper
Vote Count 1.24
Azrael (7): Cantripmancer, KittyCupCake, Vaimes, Rhand, dkingsland967, vezokpiraka, shadowlancerx
shadowlancerx (4): Sir Chris, Azrael, Killjoy, Megiddo
tomsloger (2): Axelrod, Grapefruit21
Sir Chris (1): osieorb18
dkingsland967 (1): tomsloger
Abstain (1): Lastwhisper
Vote Count 1.25
Azrael (6): Cantripmancer, KittyCupCake, Vaimes, Rhand, dkingsland967, vezokpiraka
shadowlancerx (3): Azrael, Killjoy, Megiddo
tomsloger (2): Axelrod, Grapefruit21
Sir Chris (1): osieorb18
dkingsland967 (1): tomsloger
Grapefruit21 (1): Sir Chris
Abstain (2): Lastwhisper, shadowlancerx
Vote Count 1.26
Azrael (6): Cantripmancer, KittyCupCake, Vaimes, Rhand, dkingsland967, vezokpiraka
osieorb18 (3): Grapefruit21, Sir Chris, shadowlancerx
shadowlancerx (2): Killjoy, Megiddo
Sir Chris (1): osieorb18
dkingsland967 (1): tomsloger
Vaimes (1): Azrael
tomsloger (1): Axelrod
Abstain (1): Lastwhisper
Vote Count 1.27
Azrael (6): Cantripmancer, KittyCupCake, Vaimes, Rhand, dkingsland967, vezokpiraka
osieorb18 (4): Grapefruit21, Sir Chris, shadowlancerx, tomsloger
shadowlancerx (2): Killjoy, Megiddo
Sir Chris (1): osieorb18
Vaimes (1): Azrael
tomsloger (1): Axelrod
Abstain (1): Lastwhisper
Vote Count 1.28
osieorb18 (7): Grapefruit21, Sir Chris, shadowlancerx, tomsloger, Cantripmancer, KittyCupCake, vezokpiraka
Azrael (3): Vaimes, Rhand, dkingsland967
shadowlancerx (2): Killjoy, Megiddo
Sir Chris (1): osieorb18
Vaimes (1): Azrael
tomsloger (1): Axelrod
Abstain (1): Lastwhisper
Vote Count 1.29
osieorb18 (7): Grapefruit21, Sir Chris, shadowlancerx, tomsloger, Cantripmancer, vezokpiraka, Lastwhisper
Azrael (5): Vaimes, Rhand, dkingsland967, KittyCupCake, Azelrod,
shadowlancerx (2): Killjoy, Megiddo
Sir Chris (1): osieorb18
Vaimes (1): Azrael
Abstain (0):
Vote Count 1.30
osieorb18 (7): Grapefruit21, Sir Chris, shadowlancerx, tomsloger, Cantripmancer, vezokpiraka, Lastwhisper
Azrael (6): Vaimes, Rhand, dkingsland967, KittyCupCake, Axelrod, osieorb18
shadowlancerx (2): Killjoy, Megiddo
Vaimes (1): Azrael
Abstain (0):
Vote Count 1.31
Azrael (8): Vaimes, Rhand, dkingsland967, KittyCupCake, Axelrod, osieorb18, shadowlancerx, Cantripmancer
osieorb18 (5): Grapefruit21, Sir Chris, tomsloger, vezokpiraka, Lastwhisper
shadowlancerx (2): Killjoy, Megiddo
Vaimes (1): Azrael
Abstain (0):
FINAL Vote Count 1.32
Azrael (9): Vaimes, Rhand, dkingsland967, KittyCupCake, Axelrod, osieorb18, shadowlancerx, Cantripmancer, Killjoy
osieorb18 (5): Grapefruit21, Sir Chris, tomsloger, vezokpiraka, Lastwhisper
shadowlancerx (1): Megiddo
Vaimes (1): Azrael
Abstain (0):
Vote Count 2.1
tomsloger (3): Axelrod, Sir Chris, Vaimes
Killjoy (2): dkingsland967, vezokpiraka
Sir Chris (1): KittyCupCake
Abstain (8): Grapefruit21, tomsloger, osieorb18, Cantripmancer, shadowlancerx, Lastwhisper, Megiddo, Killjoy
Vote Count 2.2
tomsloger (3): Axelrod, Sir Chris, Vaimes
Killjoy (2): dkingsland967, vezokpiraka
KittyCupCake (1): Megiddo
shadowlancerx (1): Lastwhisper
Abstain (6): Grapefruit21, tomsloger, osieorb18, Cantripmancer, Killjoy, KittyCupCake, shadowlancerx
Vote Count 2.3
tomsloger (3): Axelrod, Sir Chris, Vaimes
Killjoy (2): dkingsland967, vezokpiraka
Sir Chris (2): Cantripmancer, Lastwhisper
KittyCupCake (1): Megiddo
Abstain (7): tomsloger, osieorb18, Killjoy, KittyCupCake, shadowlancerx, Grapefruit21, Grapefruit21
Vote Count 2.4
tomsloger (3): Axelrod, Sir Chris, Vaimes
Killjoy (2): dkingsland967, vezokpiraka
Sir Chris (2): Cantripmancer, Lastwhisper
osieorb18 (2): Grapefruit21, Grapefruit21
Lastwhisper (1): Killjoy
KittyCupCake (1): Megiddo
Abstain (4): tomsloger, osieorb18, KittyCupCake, shadowlancerx
Vote Count 2.5
tomsloger (3): Axelrod, Sir Chris, Vaimes
Killjoy (3): dkingsland967, vezokpiraka, Lastwhisper
osieorb18 (2): Grapefruit21, Grapefruit21
Lastwhisper (1): Killjoy
KittyCupCake (1): Megiddo
Sir Chris (1): Cantripmancer
Abstain (4): tomsloger, osieorb18, KittyCupCake, shadowlancerx
Vote Count 2.6
tomsloger (3): Axelrod, Sir Chris, Vaimes
Killjoy (3): dkingsland967, vezokpiraka, Lastwhisper
osieorb18 (2): Grapefruit21, Grapefruit21
Lastwhisper (1): Killjoy
KittyCupCake (1): Megiddo
Sir Chris (1): Cantripmancer
Abstain (4): tomsloger, osieorb18, KittyCupCake, shadowlancerx
Vote Count 2.6.2
tomsloger (3): Axelrod, Sir Chris, Vaimes
Killjoy (3): dkingsland967, vezokpiraka, Lastwhisper
osieorb18 (2): Grapefruit21, Grapefruit21
Lastwhisper (1): Killjoy
KittyCupCake (1): Megiddo
Sir Chris (1): Cantripmancer
Abstain (4): tomsloger, osieorb18, KittyCupCake, shadowlancerx
Vote Count 2.7
Killjoy (4): Sir Chris, vezokpiraka, Vaimes, Lastwhisper
Sir Chris (3): tomsloger, KittyCupCake, Grapefruit21
Lastwhisper (1): Grapefruit21
Grapefruit21 (1): shadowlancerx
Abstain (5): Axelrod, osieorb18, Cantripmancer, Killjoy, Megiddo
Vote Count 2.8
Sir Chris (4): tomsloger, KittyCupCake, Grapefruit21, Lastwhisper
tomsloger (2): Vaimes, Cantripmancer
Killjoy (2): Sir Chris, vezokpiraka
Lastwhisper (1): Grapefruit21
Grapefruit21 (1): shadowlancerx
Abstain (4): Axelrod, osieorb18, Killjoy, Megiddo
Vote Count 2.9
Sir Chris (3): tomsloger, Grapefruit21, Lastwhisper
tomsloger (3): Cantripmancer, KittyCupCake, Vaimes
Killjoy (2): Sir Chris, vezokpiraka
Lastwhisper (1): Grapefruit21
Grapefruit21 (1): shadowlancerx
Abstain (4): Axelrod, osieorb18, Killjoy, Megiddo
Vote Count 2.10
Grapefruit21 (4): shadowlancerx, tomsloger, Megiddo, Cantripmancer
Sir Chris (3): Grapefruit21, Lastwhisper, KittyCupCake
Killjoy (2): Sir Chris, vezokpiraka
Lastwhisper (1): Grapefruit21
tomsloger (1): Vaimes
Abstain (3): Axelrod, osieorb18, Killjoy
Vote Count 2.12
Grapefruit21 (5): shadowlancerx, tomsloger, Megiddo, osieorb18, vezokpiraka
Sir Chris (3): Grapefruit21, Lastwhisper, KittyCupCake
Killjoy (2): Sir Chris, Axelrod
Lastwhisper (1): Grapefruit21
tomsloger (1): Vaimes
Abstain (2): Killjoy, Cantripmancer
Vote Count 2.13
Grapefruit21 (6): shadowlancerx, tomsloger, Megiddo, osieorb18, vezokpiraka, Cantripmancer
Sir Chris (3): Grapefruit21, KittyCupCake, Grapefruit21
Killjoy (2): Sir Chris, Axelrod, Lastwhisper
tomsloger (1): Vaimes
Abstain (1): Killjoy
Vote Count 2.15
Grapefruit21 (6): shadowlancerx, tomsloger, Megiddo, osieorb18, vezokpiraka, Sir Chris
Sir Chris (3): Grapefruit21, KittyCupCake, Grapefruit21
Killjoy (2): Axelrod, Lastwhisper
tomsloger (1): Vaimes
Abstain (2): Killjoy, Cantripmancer
FINAL Vote Count 2.16
Grapefruit21 (7): shadowlancerx, tomsloger, Megiddo, vezokpiraka, Axelrod, Cantripmancer, Lastwhisper
tomsloger (4): Vaimes, osieorb18, Grapefruit21, KittyCupCake
Sir Chris (1): Grapefruit21
Killjoy (1): Sir Chris
Abstain (1): Killjoy
IMPORTANT WAGONS
Killjoy (6): dkingsland967, Rhand, Cantripmancer, Axelrod, tomsloger, shadowlancerx ,(vezok voted later)
Megiddo (5): shadowlancerx, dkingsland967, tomsloger, KittyCupCake, Rhand
Azrael (6): Cantripmancer, shadowlancerx, KittyCupCake, Vaimes, Lastwhisper, Rhand
shadowlancerx (5): Sir Chris, Azrael, Killjoy, Megiddo, Grapefruit21 (I think this makes shadow unlikely to be scum. He's kinda a counter to Az, and had two scum on him during this time.)
Azrael (6): Cantripmancer, KittyCupCake, Vaimes, Rhand, dkingsland967, vezokpiraka
osieorb18 (4): Grapefruit21, Sir Chris, shadowlancerx, tomsloger (Grape starts a wagon on Osie that gets pretty big, and stays there while Az is getting lynched. That probably means Osie is town. I don't think Grape tries to kill his other scumbuddy to save Az.)
Killjoy (4): Sir Chris, vezokpiraka, Vaimes, Lastwhisper (My peak D2. I don't think scum could resist getting on this. There's probably one here.)
Grapefruit21 (7): shadowlancerx, tomsloger, Megiddo, vezokpiraka, Axelrod, Cantripmancer, Lastwhisper (Grape lynch)
Sir Chris (3): Grapefruit21, KittyCupCake, Grapefruit21 (So, Grape had two votes on Chris here, and had one on him for most of the day. I think a scum doublevoter probably doesn't waste one of them on a buddy, then at L-1 throw the seond one on there. Chris lean town)
osieorb18 (7): Grapefruit21, Sir Chris, shadowlancerx, tomsloger, Cantripmancer, vezokpiraka, Lastwhisper (This may point ot Last being scum with Az: Last was abstaining until this vote, where he voted Osie and kept his vote there until Az got lynched. This may have been him trying to push osie counter to scum!Az.)
THERE'S PROBABLY SCUM IN
Cantrip/Axel/tom/shadow/vezok (my initial wagon)
Vaimes/Osie/Chris/KCC/Last (Under the assumption that there was only one scum on my initial wagon. Given the two scum that flipped were openly defending me, it's unlikely the other two were openly trying to lynch me, probably? That just seems logical)
shadow/tom/KCC (Meg wagon. I don't think it was pure)
vezok/Vaimes/Chris/last (my wagon d2)
PROBABLY NOT MORE THAN 1 SCUM IN
Osie/Chris (both were sitting on Grape for 6 votecounts)
shadow/tom (several wagons where they both were.)
tom/Cantrip (recent events)
tom/Last (Due to that Osie wagon end of D1, I wonder if there would have actually been 3 scum on the counter to Az.)
SUMMARY
Shadow is unlikely to be scum with Az and Grape due to counterwagoning.
Osie likely town for Grape's wagon on him getting big and Grape staying there with Az getting big as well.
Chris likely town for Grapes handling of him, but it didn't last long (hence green over blue)
LAst potentially scum with Az due to late day vote.
OTHER THINGS
I still don't like tom's handling of that daykill. Like, he actually should have killed me. The reason he gave just basically being "well, DK could have been fooling me" and the matter-of-fact tone of his answer to why he didn't kill me (likie I was expecting him to be like... passionate about it. Instead, I get a droll response. Not that tom solvy excitement. I feel like he never thought dk was ever scum) just gives me pause.
One of the things i plan to do today is go over last to see if he's last again or if he's not last still. He was tonally different and I didn't like it.
I can't wait to see what Cantrip/tom turns out.
Your problem with my handling of my kill
Is that i didnt shoot you?
Someone redirecting cantrip to town makes so much more sense then tom faking his flavour for *****s and giggles.
Although now that I see KJ's wagon analysis I kinda doubt you can actually be scun. How about we work together and find the scum instead of going after tom?
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Accordingly, it's horribly late, so this will be short and I'll do more tomorrow.
I want to look at Shadow again, but I feel that Axel was THE reason Grape got lunched. He was certainly the reason I voted Grape over Tom at the end. Walk me through why you think you're "next" in that lineup?
...are you really asking this question? Did you read D2, with the whole "Can a dayvig and a multi-shot night vig co-exist on the town team" thing?
I did a quick scan of Osie's iso and him not seeing Meg's claim is, unfortunately, believable. Meg claimed in 1785, a hundred posts after Fuwa's last post and about a hundred before Osie joined. It wasn't a hugely visible claim, either, and I didn't see Osie mention it or comment on it at all. It's really unfortunate, if Osie is town, that he missed that in his reread, because that could have made a huge difference.
Ok, my townbloc is:
Axel: There is no way--NO WAY--that scum!Axel halts the migration of Grape's wagon to Tom to highlight all those discrepancies and put the focus back on Grape. That would be the most epic bus EVAR, and I just can't believe it. Axel's been solvey all game. He's locktown for me, rest of the game, no backsies.
Vez: Early and abrasive counterclaim to Az would have been needlessly reckless. Strong town.
Osie: Pretty sure he's town for being Az's primary counterwagon. Not impossible that he's scum, but really really unlikely.
I'll go into more tomorrow. I have quite a bit I need to dig into, and not as much time as I'd like, but I'll make it happen.
Yeah, maybe?
But, I think it's far more important that scum shot at Meg at all.
Scum: "Oh, town has a claimed watcher? Let's not worry about that and just shoot right at the doc! It's fine!"
I mean, I know the scum play hasn't been stellar this game, but... can they really be simultaneously that awful and that lucky that Osie happened to completely botch his 1shot ability?
Unfortunate.
But you did have Vez's claim, so you knew he was essentially vanilla last night. Why Watch him? One would think the scum would have other priorities than a Town with no abilities.
You fired off your shot within an hour of the lynch? That seems quick.
And it's weird to me that you supposedly wrote this post before you even had your results.
We can have a nice discussion about how it was not, in fact, a bad wagon after the game. I haven't looked yet. Taking this at face value...it's still bad. How sloppy do you have to be as Town to mess up this bad? On both shots of your ability? So, this too.
There's even one more reason to be suspicious of Osie that hasn't been stated yet. Probably a minor point but it exists. I'm not sure it's worth bringing it out yet.
Kinda toying with the massclaim idea, at this point how many people are unclaimed?