The problem for you is even if I post a sentence I give a lot of thought to all of my reads so when you ask me to explain I give you two paragraphs of nuanced thought and then you go "oh this isn't going to end well for me" because, well, it's not.
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Mm, I'll pass. I think I like my vote exactly where it is.
As for the two highlighted posts, prerand or not since he is posting that in topic it means his role did not disabuse him of the notion that his prerand thoughts were right. It is a needless, silly thing to spurt out even if you think it is true. Scum lie, deceive, have motives. Towns just...sometimes stay stupid stuff that looks weird.
As for the second post, scum very often are cautious of looking bad. Going "meh I am lazy" from someone who is not SUPREMELY confident in their skills as a player as scum is... very rare. Possible in theory, but I didn't think so here.
If he already know or strongly suspected the game was Role madness (heck I had my suspicions) then the first post cost him nothing.
For the second, where are you getting that he isn’t confident in his scum skills? I’m pretty sure he’s reasonably confident in them. Either way, even as scum it’s easier to admit laziness sometimes than make up an excuse.
and two people clearly not understanding how I like to aggressively defend people.
I basically wrote the text book on aggressive defense, that isn't my issue here. The problem is you doing it in the slightly illogical way that I've done as scum trying to mimic my town play, where it feels less like you sharing your genuine reasons for strongly believing him town, and more like you know he's town and are making up reasons so you can be right.
I haven't seen an explanation for why you think he's so bumbling that he'd basically claim power as town, but so skilled he couldn't have possibly made a slight slip up as scum?
This whole thing is so much more valid for Azrael’s Grape read than it is for Chris’ Beeboy read.
The problem for you is even if I post a sentence I give a lot of thought to all of my reads so when you ask me to explain I give you two paragraphs of nuanced thought and then you go "oh this isn't going to end well for me" because, well, it's not.
I...what? Also, I have zero fear from you this game.
Also, in scum!me/town!you world, do you really think I’d actually push on you again and expect you to magically still think I wouldn’t do so as scum?
Yeah, it’s wine, you don’t actually have to answer that, I don’t think it helps either of us here, especially if you’re town.
Mm, I'll pass. I think I like my vote exactly where it is.
As for the two highlighted posts, prerand or not since he is posting that in topic it means his role did not disabuse him of the notion that his prerand thoughts were right. It is a needless, silly thing to spurt out even if you think it is true. Scum lie, deceive, have motives. Towns just...sometimes stay stupid stuff that looks weird.
As for the second post, scum very often are cautious of looking bad. Going "meh I am lazy" from someone who is not SUPREMELY confident in their skills as a player as scum is... very rare. Possible in theory, but I didn't think so here.
If he already know or strongly suspected the game was Role madness (heck I had my suspicions) then the first post cost him nothing.
For the second, where are you getting that he isn’t confident in his scum skills? I’m pretty sure he’s reasonably confident in them. Either way, even as scum it’s easier to admit laziness sometimes than make up an excuse.
In slower paced games you just don't post for a bit. It's in the realm of possibility but not likelyhood. Also it isn't about 'confidence' it is about being in the 90% confidence level compared to the average.
It's about ranges.
And yes, if he as town genuinely just was like "you know what I think it is role madness so **** it."
Scum there just don't do that. That's the guilelessness of it tbh.
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Also, @Chris: can you give thoughts on the rest of your wagon instead of putting the blinders on towards me. You know what, you can even keep your vote on me for the time being if it makes you happy, but I don’t want you to hide behind a tunnel as scum, or get stuck on this rut as town.
~~~~~
@Beeboy: you literally haven’t moved your vote since page...2? Can you post a full ordered list (don’t even need reasons unless you want to), and either show that you’re happy with the vote or do something with it?
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I'm keeping out of this for now, but currently its slightly doubtful that Chris/Shadow are w/w based on these two pages
I’m leaning v/v with the voracity they’re displaying.
Don't be fooled Shadow is a tricky fella.
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I haven't seen an explanation for why you think he's so bumbling that he'd basically claim power as town, but so skilled he couldn't have possibly made a slight slip up as scum?
Did I say he was bumbling?
Post 468
Your word, not mine.
But I'm not interested in arguing semantics anyway. The point is:
Why is him inadvertantly claiming power as town more likely than him making a similar info slip as scum, at any given skill level?
As for the two highlighted posts, prerand or not since he is posting that in topic it means his role did not disabuse him of the notion that his prerand thoughts were right. It is a needless, silly thing to spurt out even if you think it is true. Scum lie, deceive, have motives. Towns just...sometimes stay stupid stuff that looks weird.
And Shadow is a sneaky fellow who can never be trusted.
Also because it seems like the entire case I am reading against Sir Chris is that he got an early "too strong" read on Beeboy as Town. That is incredibly underwhelming. I don't exactly have a strong "Town" read on Chris or Beeboy for that matter, but I have no issue if he supposedly got one from what Beeboy posted. As someone else (Rhand?) said, it's better than the Town read Az. supposedly got on Grapefruit from what Grapefruit posted.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
</blockquote>[quote from="beeboy »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/812915-modern-mafia-day-1-spine-of-ish-sah?comment=415"]I just want it to be clear if I do get mislynched it's because I was misevaluated not because I tried to fish for VTs as town.
Liars stick to their story, people remembering give variations.
I've got your back.
Wut? I don't track this read, from that post, at all. I originally thought this was sarcasm and was confused why there wasn't an accompanying vote and reread it a few times to see if I was misunderstanding something.
>pre rand join this game for cool roles thinking theme games are role madness for some reason.
>Get role pm [redacted]
>See non VT sample pm.
>Think of various modern decks and what roles they can be.
>Never be presented with any info to make me rethink a thought I never overly thought about.
Like to fully explain why I thought this was role madness I have to explain why everything up until this post did not make me even consider the option I was wrong. That's because I never really thought about why this game was role madness in the first place. Which isn't even a solid memory because again I wasn't thinking about it.
I also don't believe that Beeboy's statement was some kind of "slip" which happened from him being scum - and having a role - and seeing his fellow scum - also having roles - and then making an assumption based on that that the whole game was "role madness." That is an almost equally bad argument and I am now giving Cantripmancer the for making it.
I mean, it could be. Is that a surefire thing I want to base a lynch off of in its entirety? Nah. Does it make me want to reread beeboy more thoroughly? Yes.
@azreal
speaking of which, is there something you want from me? why exactly is your vote still sitting on me? make a case or kindly go else where
I cant be expected to evaluate what my past slot holder did or said, without it just being my own biased assumption
I prefer to vote Tom right now.
I'll give Sir Chris a chance to do something new before I'd be willing to vote me.
Not saying Sir Chris is town for defending me because he wasn't even the first person to do it but might as well give people a chance to breathe first.
*Scoffs*
I’m pretty sure I’ve correctly read you in everything but twilight of secret agent Mafia.
Harrumph.
Oh, now that you’ve unvoted, join the Chris wagon. His Beeboy defense is garbage, regardless of BeeBoy’s alignment (and probably means Beeboy is town if Chris is scum). KCC has the right of it, and that subsequently makes me like her a bit.
@Chris: These are the posts from Beeboy you claim are guileless:
This was my response (which I stand by):
So tell me, why was Beeboy town at that juncture. Where are you really inferring that from. Break down some actual behavior and show me your thought process. (FYI: this is 100% about you, not him( don’t mistake my purpose.)
Also, get your vote off of me, go put it somewhere useful and think about what you’ve done. I want you to catch scum, don’t even care what your alignment is for that, so go do that.
I hate these two posts. Calls the b-boy defense garbage, which ok, maybe it is, but being a garbage defense doesn't mean Sir Chris is scum. Oldest trick in the book, to try to get townies to lynch people for something "bad", instead of scummy. And the emotional tone here just drips with the desire to character assassinate.
I think I am team Sir Chris in Sir Chris v. Shadow, if only because this is funny and true:
And Shadow is a sneaky fellow who can never be trusted.
Also because it seems like the entire case I am reading against Sir Chris is that he got an early "too strong" read on Beeboy as Town. That is incredibly underwhelming. I don't exactly have a strong "Town" read on Chris or Beeboy for that matter, but I have no issue if he supposedly got one from what Beeboy posted. As someone else (Rhand?) said, it's better than the Town read Az. supposedly got on Grapefruit from what Grapefruit posted.
Et tu, Axelrod?
OK, so grape and vez town. Beeboy, syrenz, shadow potentially wearing fedoras and eating lasagna. None of the rest of you are special and interesting, and you should be ashamed and do more noteworthy things.
@azreal
slamming a bunch of one-liners into a wall post, if you end up flipping wolf here, ill be highly disappointed, I expected more from the legendary Azrael
the audience would like to know why you are voting me... "cause scum" isnt a reason, and your vote also isnt really doing anything or adding to the game state
though you reminded me to go back and look at that post everyone was talking about
I don't get the shadow town reads. Everything he said is reasonable, but that's not really a reason to town read him. Not really interested in trying to read shadow this early.
I think I like Vez embracing shadow over shadow embracing him. They could be buddies but I think it's much more likely that town!Vez feels like he got read correctly.
@Rhand what do you like from Shadow here?
I like that you can track the flow of his townie thought process through this. Step 1, caution regarding Shadaow, respect for his abilities, registering that concern. Progresses naturally to reading the Vez situation/interaction, decisively rules out one alternative, in favor of a meta-based town read. So he's not hesitant to town clear in general, he's adjusting his town-reading willingness depending on his threat assessment of the player and the particular interactions at issue. Finally, follows up with a fairly intelligent and useful inquiry designed to springboard off the earlier concerns, signalling genuine interest in both the interaction and gathering opinions from others.
Textbook pro-town mindset.
I am going to assume here that you are self-aware enough to know what you can and can't get out of, as well as basic scum tells like, "strong early reads", tends to come more from a wolf than a town, so I am going to say this feels more genuine than not
doesn't feel like it has a narrative, and there's always no wolf benefit to this post what so ever, because the early strong read as a common scum tell almost voids the whole "trying to look townie" premise
though I don't agree that, "not being hesitant to town clear", is as black and white as you make it out to be
in all honesty tho, this post is too big-brained for me, cause I have literally no idea what the last sentence is saying, I can understand the first sentence, but again that can be faked
speaking of your wall above, I like that you called out Shadow, that post was super out of character for him, probably will/would vote him at one point, maybe? I think overall hes exceeded in content compared to his last game, but that could be more so cause hes not as busy
I liked his comment towards the Axel quote, could do without the self-biased sarcasm in his first line
nothing else really sticks out to me
I also want answers to your frown reads, k and thanks
@Az: you literally call out another part of Chris’s Beeboy read that made no sense, and then come after me for calling out a different part of his nonsensical Beeboy read. What’s the deal yo?
What's the matter Az, can't read my mind? You don't know why I was voting you? So why'd you put Syrenz in the same position in 84 (and re-assert the question in 273)?
@Az: There is an "ick" in your wall post that's attached to a quoting mess. Can you clarify what exactly that was supposed to reference?
Also, I'm having a little trouble understanding your Chris read? You pointed out the same issue I saw: his reactions aren't lining up with the posts he's reacting to. How is that just "bad" rather than a mindset tell?
slamming a bunch of one-liners into a wall post, if you end up flipping wolf here, ill be highly disappointed, I expected more from the legendary Azrael
Az is legendary for his town play, I wasn't particularly impressed when I played against his scum game.
What's the matter Az, can't read my mind? You don't know why I was voting you? So why'd you put Syrenz in the same position in 84 (and re-assert the question in 273)?
Vote Azrael
How serious was your Wisp vote?
ALwWPIs until Monday
Moderately serious. I have no problem with you voting me, I just literally don't even recall the context for when your vote was placed. So...yeah. If you wanna repost I'm happy to ruminate on your possible reasons, but I think that you're likely not aware what my tactics there are, and that's ok with me for now. It's not an over share early kind of day.
@ShadowScum- It's not what you do. It's the way you do it.
@Az: So let’s talk about those two posts then. Chris is a player who as town makes incredibly coherent arguments, he singlehanded stopped a wagon on Osie when he replaced into a death in the Family. When I see him make a play to stop a wagon, but his thought process doesn’t actually track, it just looks like he wanted to mimic that feeling and tossed out some good sounding reasoning without it actually being a good reason. That’s why I think it makes him scummy.
Plenty of players make “bad not scummy” posts, that’s very accurate. But Chris isn’t often one of them. That brings up the question though, how well do you track with his Beeboy read personally?
Also, scum!me just has zero interest in pursuing Chris Day 1 after a game where I could not get any traction on him in the game immediately prior to this one, it’s just a low EV play.
And Shadow is a sneaky fellow who can never be trusted.
This is kind of a silly reason, and not really based on this game
Quote from Axelrod »
Also because it seems like the entire case I am reading against Sir Chris is that he got an early "too strong" read on Beeboy as Town. That is incredibly underwhelming. I don't exactly have a strong "Town" read on Chris or Beeboy for that matter, but I have no issue if he supposedly got one from what Beeboy posted. As someone else (Rhand?) said, it's better than the Town read Az. supposedly got on Grapefruit from what Grapefruit posted.
I know that this sounds like semantics, but it does make a difference, it’s not about the strength of the read, but the feasibility of the read. I think the reasons Chris purported for the read are weak and baseless.
You bring up Az, what’s your read on him?
~~~~~
Also, all this to say, but I don’t think I’m actually getting anywhere with Chris. I find myself thinking that he could very well believe in his Beeboy read, and just use a lower standard to judge what scum can and can’t do than I do.
I just don’t have anywhere else good to vote at the moment, so I’m in a bit of a limbo.
What's the matter Az, can't read my mind? You don't know why I was voting you? So why'd you put Syrenz in the same position in 84 (and re-assert the question in 273)?
Vote Azrael
How serious was your Wisp vote?
Moderately serious.
If that's true, why no mention of her at the bottom of that same post:
OK, so grape and vez town. Beeboy, syrenz, shadow potentially wearing fedoras and eating lasagna. None of the rest of you are special and interesting, and you should be ashamed and do more noteworthy things.
???
Quote from Azrael »
I have no problem with you voting me, I just literally don't even recall the context for when your vote was placed. So...yeah. If you wanna repost I'm happy to ruminate on your possible reasons, but I think that you're likely not aware what my tactics there are, and that's ok with me for now. It's not an over share early kind of day.
You missed my point. I was voting you for those attacks you made on Syrenz, where you wanted him to tell you what you found scummy about his own posts. That's a crappy attack; why did you employ it?
Let me be very clear, what Shadow saying is a complete lie. Just like in Death in the Family I was challenged by people on Osie and no one was like "wow guess Chris is right." I had to fight tooth and nail for hours upon hours and then into days to get that across. So it isn't surprising to me when I make similar observations, which are not baseless or weak - they are correct. They come from decades of experience of reading situations, reading into motivations, and understanding how pure towns think. Just because Shadow says something does not make it reality.
Simply put, it isn't my problem if people are so behind the curve of skill at town reading that how I do it looks like a magic trick. I explained my thought process, accept it or don't.
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Also just to not defend my alignment but my play for a moment, I am stupidly accurate when I sort people into town. Stupidly accurate. So whatever my 'lower standards' may be they produce literal world class results. I will not have my best ability, to sort town members intelligently, be questioned. There are few better in the entire world than me at it.
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I don't understand the shadow scumreads or votes. He's been scum a lot recently, and I feel like there's a difference this time around that means he's town. More earnest solving and less doing things for show.
Plus I think if he were scum again he'd be more of a drag.
@Chris: I’ll concede that being an observer for death in the Family may have made a difference, but I followed your Osie clear over there very well.
Also, I’m not here to argue that you get results and your town clears are accurate, that’s why I said Beeboy is probably town if you’re scum.
And if you’re town, clearly you believe the read, and even if you’re right, I think your premise is flimsy, hence this whole back and forth.
Also just to not defend my alignment but my play for a moment, I am stupidly accurate when I sort people into town. Stupidly accurate. So whatever my 'lower standards' may be they produce literal world class results. I will not have my best ability, to sort town members intelligently, be questioned. There are few better in the entire world than me at it.
To really add onto this, haaving just come from a game where you called scum!me town, cool your jets here when I push back on a read you make.
Yes, you’re a good player, and yes, when you clear someone, I think you have the right of it. I was not under the impression that Beeboy was “clear” just a strong townread.
Seriously though, I’m not trying to talk down to you, and if you’re town, then I think you should agree to do the same and let’s catch scum.
I don't understand the shadow scumreads or votes. He's been scum a lot recently, and I feel like there's a difference this time around that means he's town. More earnest solving and less doing things for show.
Plus I think if he were scum again he'd be more of a drag.
Also just to not defend my alignment but my play for a moment, I am stupidly accurate when I sort people into town. Stupidly accurate. So whatever my 'lower standards' may be they produce literal world class results. I will not have my best ability, to sort town members intelligently, be questioned. There are few better in the entire world than me at it.
But I mean, what if you're scum? This entire argument is kind of worthless then, yes? And unless you are taking the position that your towniness is so self-evident that it should be beyond question (which it is not), then you should recognize that it's pointless to say any of this.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
If that's true, why no mention of her at the bottom of that same post:
???
You missed my point. I was voting you for those attacks you made on Syrenz, where you wanted him to tell you what you found scummy about his own posts. That's a crappy attack; why did you employ it?
@Az: So let’s talk about those two posts then. Chris is a player who as town makes incredibly coherent arguments, he singlehanded stopped a wagon on Osie when he replaced into a death in the Family. When I see him make a play to stop a wagon, but his thought process doesn’t actually track, it just looks like he wanted to mimic that feeling and tossed out some good sounding reasoning without it actually being a good reason. That’s why I think it makes him scummy.
Plenty of players make “bad not scummy” posts, that’s very accurate. But Chris isn’t often one of them. That brings up the question though, how well do you track with his Beeboy read personally?
Also, scum!me just has zero interest in pursuing Chris Day 1 after a game where I could not get any traction on him in the game immediately prior to this one, it’s just a low EV play.
Mm. I don't know that I understand that Chris post from either alignment. I understand what you're laying down there, but having seen Chris play both alignments, it doesn't seem to fit cleanly into either. If it's bad play under both alignments, and comes from a good player, that doesn't necessarily mean the scum explanation is all that more likely.
But the way you launched that attack? Reads to me like you saw a golden ticket to attack poor logic, and overplayed your hand. So, so often, scum fall into that pattern and try to drag the town along with them. I don't know that you had decided whether you truly wanted to "win" that wagon by successfully spearheading a lynch on a prominent player this early, because blowback is a thing, but regardless of whether this was or was not a calculated scum attack, that was a scum attack.
I have no reason to cool my jets. And not being 100% accurate is not a reason to have anything but confidence in my abilities. Congratulations, you tricked me for one day and then got shot and lost the game. I dont mind making that mistake when so many times it leads to good results.
If I can't defend myself because of "what if you are scum tho" none of us should be playing. History shows if I am scum town is like just going to lose anyway so!
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@Az: Simplely put, I do not expect, nor did I expect, for any wagon on Chris to end in a day 1 lynch, regardless of my alignment that’s a true statement. So suggesting I expected to spearhead a lynch is innacurate, and voting me because you believe I expected too try is wrong.
@chris: I feel like we’re talking past each other, and I’m done trying for now. You do you though.
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For the second, where are you getting that he isn’t confident in his scum skills? I’m pretty sure he’s reasonably confident in them. Either way, even as scum it’s easier to admit laziness sometimes than make up an excuse.
This whole thing is so much more valid for Azrael’s Grape read than it is for Chris’ Beeboy read.
Also, in scum!me/town!you world, do you really think I’d actually push on you again and expect you to magically still think I wouldn’t do so as scum?
Yeah, it’s wine, you don’t actually have to answer that, I don’t think it helps either of us here, especially if you’re town.
In slower paced games you just don't post for a bit. It's in the realm of possibility but not likelyhood. Also it isn't about 'confidence' it is about being in the 90% confidence level compared to the average.
It's about ranges.
And yes, if he as town genuinely just was like "you know what I think it is role madness so **** it."
Scum there just don't do that. That's the guilelessness of it tbh.
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~~~~~
@Beeboy: you literally haven’t moved your vote since page...2? Can you post a full ordered list (don’t even need reasons unless you want to), and either show that you’re happy with the vote or do something with it?
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For Shadow
Give me a percentage on your read of me.
am I doing this right?
I’m leaning v/v with the voracity they’re displaying.
Don't be fooled Shadow is a tricky fella.
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Post 468
Your word, not mine.
But I'm not interested in arguing semantics anyway. The point is:
Why is him inadvertantly claiming power as town more likely than him making a similar info slip as scum, at any given skill level?
I'm not disagreeing, rhand, but I only have one vote, and I have several reasons for not wanting to even waste time on Az D1.
And Shadow is a sneaky fellow who can never be trusted.
Also because it seems like the entire case I am reading against Sir Chris is that he got an early "too strong" read on Beeboy as Town. That is incredibly underwhelming. I don't exactly have a strong "Town" read on Chris or Beeboy for that matter, but I have no issue if he supposedly got one from what Beeboy posted. As someone else (Rhand?) said, it's better than the Town read Az. supposedly got on Grapefruit from what Grapefruit posted.
IDK, maybe you like voting townies?
Nah, reading the case against you didn't change my opinion on it at all.
Townie style? No. Mafia style - yeah, a bit more emotionally devious, following Cross-town 3. Overall style has suffered from decreased time.
Just as soon as I have some, sure.
Actually, I seem to recall I'm about to hit a post or two from him further down here.
Yeah, that'll come at some point.
Ick.
Wut? I don't track this read, from that post, at all. I originally thought this was sarcasm and was confused why there wasn't an accompanying vote and reread it a few times to see if I was misunderstanding something.
Hunh.
I mean, it could be. Is that a surefire thing I want to base a lynch off of in its entirety? Nah. Does it make me want to reread beeboy more thoroughly? Yes.
Vez +town.
That wouldn't surprise me.
vote LastWhisper
vote LastWhisper
vote LastWhisper
vote LastWhisper
vote LastWhisper
vote LastWhisper
vote LastWhisper
vote LastWhisper
vote LastWhisper
vote LastWhisper
Cuz scum
...unvote
vote LastWhisper
What's that second sentence supposed to mean...?
I hate these two posts. Calls the b-boy defense garbage, which ok, maybe it is, but being a garbage defense doesn't mean Sir Chris is scum. Oldest trick in the book, to try to get townies to lynch people for something "bad", instead of scummy. And the emotional tone here just drips with the desire to character assassinate.
vote Shadowlancer.
Uh, except for my grapefruit read is awesome and actually correct, thank you.
Et tu, Axelrod?
OK, so grape and vez town. Beeboy, syrenz, shadow potentially wearing fedoras and eating lasagna. None of the rest of you are special and interesting, and you should be ashamed and do more noteworthy things.
slamming a bunch of one-liners into a wall post, if you end up flipping wolf here, ill be highly disappointed, I expected more from the legendary Azrael
the audience would like to know why you are voting me... "cause scum" isnt a reason, and your vote also isnt really doing anything or adding to the game state
though you reminded me to go back and look at that post everyone was talking about
I am going to assume here that you are self-aware enough to know what you can and can't get out of, as well as basic scum tells like, "strong early reads", tends to come more from a wolf than a town, so I am going to say this feels more genuine than not
doesn't feel like it has a narrative, and there's always no wolf benefit to this post what so ever, because the early strong read as a common scum tell almost voids the whole "trying to look townie" premise
though I don't agree that, "not being hesitant to town clear", is as black and white as you make it out to be
in all honesty tho, this post is too big-brained for me, cause I have literally no idea what the last sentence is saying, I can understand the first sentence, but again that can be faked
speaking of your wall above, I like that you called out Shadow, that post was super out of character for him, probably will/would vote him at one point, maybe? I think overall hes exceeded in content compared to his last game, but that could be more so cause hes not as busy
I liked his comment towards the Axel quote, could do without the self-biased sarcasm in his first line
nothing else really sticks out to me
I also want answers to your frown reads, k and thanks
choo choo
@Last: How should I go about reading you?
Vote Azrael
How serious was your Wisp vote?
ALwWPIs until Monday
Vote Count 1.17
tomsloger (4): Rhand, Axelrod, Vaimes, beeboy
Sir Chris (3): KittyCupCake, vezokpiraka, shadowlancerx
shadowlancerx (3): Sir Chris, Azrael, Lastwhisper
beeboy (2): dkingsland967, tomsloger
Grapefruit21 (1): Fuwa
Fuwa (1): Grapefruit21
Azrael (1): Cantripmancer
Abstain (1): Killjoy
With 16 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch.
Day 1 will end on Friday, August 16th, at 11:59 PM.
Fuwa V/LA until deadline
Which is why lynching D1 is such a pain. Too many scum to vote for
Also, I'm having a little trouble understanding your Chris read? You pointed out the same issue I saw: his reactions aren't lining up with the posts he's reacting to. How is that just "bad" rather than a mindset tell?
Az is legendary for his town play, I wasn't particularly impressed when I played against his scum game.
I'd be willing to bet that exactly 3 scum have votes on them.
Moderately serious. I have no problem with you voting me, I just literally don't even recall the context for when your vote was placed. So...yeah. If you wanna repost I'm happy to ruminate on your possible reasons, but I think that you're likely not aware what my tactics there are, and that's ok with me for now. It's not an over share early kind of day.
@ShadowScum- It's not what you do. It's the way you do it.
Plenty of players make “bad not scummy” posts, that’s very accurate. But Chris isn’t often one of them. That brings up the question though, how well do you track with his Beeboy read personally?
Also, scum!me just has zero interest in pursuing Chris Day 1 after a game where I could not get any traction on him in the game immediately prior to this one, it’s just a low EV play.
You bring up Az, what’s your read on him?
~~~~~
Also, all this to say, but I don’t think I’m actually getting anywhere with Chris. I find myself thinking that he could very well believe in his Beeboy read, and just use a lower standard to judge what scum can and can’t do than I do.
I just don’t have anywhere else good to vote at the moment, so I’m in a bit of a limbo.
???
You missed my point. I was voting you for those attacks you made on Syrenz, where you wanted him to tell you what you found scummy about his own posts. That's a crappy attack; why did you employ it?
Simply put, it isn't my problem if people are so behind the curve of skill at town reading that how I do it looks like a magic trick. I explained my thought process, accept it or don't.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Plus I think if he were scum again he'd be more of a drag.
He dies.
Also, I’m not here to argue that you get results and your town clears are accurate, that’s why I said Beeboy is probably town if you’re scum.
And if you’re town, clearly you believe the read, and even if you’re right, I think your premise is flimsy, hence this whole back and forth.
Yes, you’re a good player, and yes, when you clear someone, I think you have the right of it. I was not under the impression that Beeboy was “clear” just a strong townread.
Seriously though, I’m not trying to talk down to you, and if you’re town, then I think you should agree to do the same and let’s catch scum.
I did mention syrenz/LW...same slot.
It is an odd attack. You're right.
Mm. I don't know that I understand that Chris post from either alignment. I understand what you're laying down there, but having seen Chris play both alignments, it doesn't seem to fit cleanly into either. If it's bad play under both alignments, and comes from a good player, that doesn't necessarily mean the scum explanation is all that more likely.
But the way you launched that attack? Reads to me like you saw a golden ticket to attack poor logic, and overplayed your hand. So, so often, scum fall into that pattern and try to drag the town along with them. I don't know that you had decided whether you truly wanted to "win" that wagon by successfully spearheading a lynch on a prominent player this early, because blowback is a thing, but regardless of whether this was or was not a calculated scum attack, that was a scum attack.
Confirm vote
That read doesn't even work on this site, 99% of the time, kek
I'm not voting Tom till it becomes obnoxiously obvious that the trains are moving to save him
Anyways back to work
Vaimes is town for now based on meta, don't think he ever gets lynched today anyways, I'll /barn Shadow's read on that post though
If I can't defend myself because of "what if you are scum tho" none of us should be playing. History shows if I am scum town is like just going to lose anyway so!
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
@chris: I feel like we’re talking past each other, and I’m done trying for now. You do you though.