I looked over Kitteh Trek and Hecatea, both of which are old as ***** but literally the last completed games Syrenz has to his credit. His post 270 is fairly in line with a lot of his D1 activity from those games and his vote didn't jump around much. He was town in both games. So, there's that.
Sorry Wisp I thought I posted this but I must have forgot.
Yo guys if anyone tries to lynch Wisp while I am alive and dont think there scum I am going to mess em up.
@Shadow I am going to review some ISOs that I had in the back of my mind and answer that question properly because my loosest answer possible isn't going to be productive.
dk and KCC came into the game all excited (which isn't necessarily a tell) but also they were kind of... the opposite of self aware a bit as well. Scum usually aren't so carefree in general
so I found ur read, and I dont really understand it, feels like TMI
also leave the entrance reading to me, and even I cant do it half the time, and for the most part I stopped trying because I cant even push that reasoning half the time
Good Mafia are self-aware enough to enter with simplicity
Other Mafia jump in with humor or fluff
but town can also do either of these things
if not cantrip I'd probably be voting for you, despite what I had said
or maybe ur read goes deeper than their first posts? I would like you to quote all the posts that give you that vibe, but either way it doesnt really make them any more of either alignment
Beeboy, why do you think this is a role madness game?
V/LA until Friday
Cantrip is almost surely town just for this post lol.
I already thought he was town but why this post?
I'm beginning to think Rhand is town. I have him stuck in my head as scum but I keep agreeing with him... I don't think the asking for past games is particularly AI but I am liking his last 48 hours or so.
Beeboy pressure is good. Not as good as Fuwa pressure but good.
Rhand - He was scum reading me before when I called him town it's not like him voting me actually changes that too much.
Shadow - More likely to be scum. I pushed him for his opening which I did mostly for neutral reasons. His follow up vote on me felt like he did it because he could I guess and it felt evasive at times. Like #89. It almost feels like he is pressuring me because he doesn't expect me to fight back. He is engaging me using empty hard to engage with points like how my posts feel. And his question about my top 2 reads feels more like vanity then anything else. I truly don't get the vibe he cares if I am town or not.
Tom - Hasn't done anything too special yet, at least in my eyes. pretty netrual.
dkingsland967 - He is picking apart posts and following up on them in a way that I like, back tracking when needed. I think I am ok with him for now/
Re - vote on me, it was less self awareness and more what I picked up as my reasoning for town reading him and it kinda stuck with me.
Kitty - Neutral atm, don't have much more to add.
--------------------
Fuwa - Has a bit of fluff over the few posts but is self aware of the fluff. The grapefruit vote feels really bad to me. I guess I'd vote this slot EoD.
Azreal - Neutral I don't understand this wagon.
Cantrip - I find his analysis to be generally fine and I also really like this quote "Rhand: Are you scum? I ask because normally I have a hard time reading you and you turn out town, but this game I'm mindmelding with you all over the place (to the literal point that I'm not posting some of the things I planned to post because you ninja'd me)."
It feels like a post scum wouldn't make because of how weird it is.
Wisp - My town block.
KJ - Leaning scum on this slot I feel like there is a disconnect between the pressure he is applying, his vote and what he is saying at times and his posts overall just feel weird to me.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Wagons tend to move slower on scum. Scum don't really wanna vote each other and town are more hesitant because they don't KNOW that they're voting scum.
I think out loud sometimes. But lets talk about this, shadow. Who am I shading, and what specifically am I shading them for?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
The way you framed the line makes it a drive by shade on the line players on the wagon, but putting the onus on someone else to back you up and take the lead on pushing it. The “is that a thing” line is especially a way of distancing yourself from blowback.
do I make up reads now or later? I think I'll wait till I have more free time, probably later tomorrow
wagons are good, sitting on a bunch of 1 or 2 trains brings little information
I agree that that hedging is slightly unnecessary, and probably leads more often to a wolf than a town
/shrug
vote: Killjoy
yeet
Cantrip is V/LA currently, don't feel like sitting here anymore, still believe that one line I quoted felt very manipulative
4 out of 9 really isn't that fast... It's just barely a wagon. I don't think that status should be give till it's over a third needed.
it's 5 now isn't it?
Shadow: I'm postulating that there's not two scum that moved from me to beeboy and am wondering if there's one in the two that were on my wagon but didn't go to beeboy. You saying it's shade is wrong. You can't really shade 5 people at once.
I'm kinda feeling line you're shading me though. I'm literally saying "there might be scum in this group because X" and your saying that I'm trying to make them look bad, when X is a totally valid theory, so far as I can tell. You certainly haven't said it's not.
And yes, I do say things like "is that a thing" because I don't actually know if my theory is actually true. That's why I look so hard at the Voxx mentor thread, and why I overexplain my theories. It gives people the chance to come in and say "Hey, uh, Mafia actually might come in excited just because they want to play. Last did that, and I'm mulling that over.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Shadow: I'm postulating that there's not two scum that moved from me to beeboy and am wondering if there's one in the two that were on my wagon but didn't go to beeboy. You saying it's shade is wrong. You can't really shade 5 people at once.
Mmm, this does make it read a bit better/different than it comes off at first. I still think you’re getting caught up in wagonomics prematurely though.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm not ignoring Shadow, I'm just not interested in voting him yet. His vote was bad too, as were most of them (rhand and tom) but axel's was the worst. Why do you think he's town?
I agree with his #189 posts about KJ. I'm not a fan of unvote if you don't have a new direction though. Especially when you think your vote is already on scum.
I also like his later responses to Shadow, since I think the same way. What do you think of his explanation for the vote on and unvote on KJ?
So you like his points that amounted to "Yes it was weak but it was worth it to run him up and see what happened because his promise to come back and reply was scummy" but you're also at an 8.5 on KJ being scum? And you're uncomfortable with the unvote? Feels strange that your main point of agreement is him saying the reasons for voting KJ are pretty weak.
Vote: Fuwa
@Shadow I can't argue with that specific semantic argument.
I'm not seeing what you're checking here, yes, I felt the post was town, because I think pushing someone for whatever reason even though weak is pretty townish, especially at early stage, him admitting it was weak was better. But I didn't like that he unvoted while thinking KJ is still scum, and having no one he's going to push. That doesn't change my read that KJ is scum. It just makes my read on Axel not as strong.
I don't understand what I'm replying to. I feel like all I did was repeating myself.
Could you perhaps rephrase that?
Fuwa I mean innocnet like... not like alignment based, like imagine a girl and her dad, and the principle is saying she was caught making out in the broom closet. Dad looks to her, sees big doe eyes with a "who, me?????" look.
That kind of innocent. Your tone and verbiage seem like that, and if that's not normal for you it might be forced.
And I didn't ask you because self meta isn't that useful. I wanted someone else to comment because ironically I'm more likely to get a useful answer out of someone who isn't you.
And I feel like I've covered ad nausium why I never voted.
Question: Why are you voting Grape over me? You obviously think I'm scum but would rather go off in nowheresville on a wagon no one has expressed interest in?
I'm not voting KJ coz I have nothing to add besides vote, may vote EoD though
Umm, I don't think anyone here have proper meta on me. That said, if what you're talking about is my tone, then it's a personal choice of mine to have a cheerful persona (everywhere). It may or may not comes natural but that's imo is NAI.
I'm just really confused by the idea that you think you can town read Axel for pushing any read but also weaken that read for him unvoting. If it was a pressure vote and you liked that part of it why is unvoting once the pressure has had an impact a bad thing? Because you're independently scum reading KJ?
Also I'll echo the tone is probably NAI for Fuwa, but that doesn't make her town.
I don't like unvote when he doesn't have a new direction. Why does he feel the need to put his pressure on pause? Things like that, but I like the general tone and his other point, so it's fine by me to leave it alone. It had nothing to do with how I view KJ.
Why is this point particularly interesting to you?
Hi @Grape, so I wrote this out to answer your earlier question, then wanted to see if you remembered that you asked it of me or your own accord.
KCC: A lot of her posting feels busy, like present and commenting without actually saying anything.
Rhand: I think it's very likely due to wagon speed+general lack of spelt out reasons during the wagon formation.
Fuwa: And if it's true that your cheerful persona is interntional and widespread, that'll show. Can you link me to a game list for you? Or a couple games?
I will be busy for a whole week (until 17th) but I should be able to post in between. Might not be able to make a proper readlist though. If it gets so bad, I'll discuss with the host.
I'm not sure I understand the Beeboy train. Felt very sudden to me.
I would be a little surprised if Beeboy was scum, mostly because there is a guilelessness in some of these posts where I go "would he really?" as scum.
Wisp is a town lean from me, tone sounds right from past experience.
Hm. I think I like my Grape vote still. The reason I voted him in the first place was his progression onto Rhand seemed not genuine to me (he always ends up voting Rhand day 1 so there are a lot of comparisons to see how his progression onto him works) and even his "I like rhand more now" feels weird to me. Like you are voting for someone, switch off of them, and when they join your wagon there doesn't seem to be too much caring about it unless I missed it. It feels like a scum Grape knows he always votes Rhand so just does it again. It's a contrast from how he was last game day 1.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Town but I was too lazy to put in effort of finding quotes to explain why so I kept that to myself.
Literally thinking this was OK to post.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
I...am utterly unconvinced. The first one he says prerand, and while yes, it does mean he’s not Vanilla, the fact that no one has corrected him makes me think he’s right, everyone probably has something.
The second one is pretty standard fair. I’ve been too lazy as both alignments before.
Not to say that I think exactly opposite and than those posts have to come from scum, they just don’t move the dial for me.
(Also, it is totally feasible that Beeboy inferred Role madness from his whole team being PRs and then walked it back in any way he could, but there’s no way to know that, but it would be mildly hilarious)
For some reason prerand i got the idea this was a role madness game and never changed that opinion since.
This is probably the best approach ngl.
Also he got lynched d1 with me telling anyone who would listen how townie he was...
Town but I was too lazy to put in effort of finding quotes to explain why so I kept that to myself.
<redacted>
thanks for shutting me down
probably isn't AI, but that's what came to my mind at the time
@Tom
I really do not recall this game where we ever scum together
Yo guys if anyone tries to lynch Wisp while I am alive and dont think there scum I am going to mess em up.
@Shadow I am going to review some ISOs that I had in the back of my mind and answer that question properly because my loosest answer possible isn't going to be productive.
so I found ur read, and I dont really understand it, feels like TMI
also leave the entrance reading to me, and even I cant do it half the time, and for the most part I stopped trying because I cant even push that reasoning half the time
Good Mafia are self-aware enough to enter with simplicity
Other Mafia jump in with humor or fluff
but town can also do either of these things
if not cantrip I'd probably be voting for you, despite what I had said
I approve of the Fuwa, Beeboy and Azrael wagons and find it hilarious that all 3 of those are not on each other’s wagons
Fine.
unvote vote beeboy
@rhand
Vote Count 1.14
beeboy (4): shadowlancerx, dkingsland967, tomsloger, KittyCupCake
Fuwa (2): Grapefruit21, Rhand
Grapefruit21 (2): Sir Chris, Fuwa
Cantripmancer (2): Vaimes, Lastwhisper
shadowlancerx (1): beeboy
Lastwhisper (1): Azrael
Azrael (1): Cantripmancer
Killjoy (1): vezokpiraka
Abstain (2): Killjoy, Axelrod
With 16 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch.
Day 1 will end on Friday, August 16th, at 11:59 PM.
Cantripmancer is V/LA until the 9th.
@tom: more. Way more.
I already thought he was town but why this post?
I'm beginning to think Rhand is town. I have him stuck in my head as scum but I keep agreeing with him... I don't think the asking for past games is particularly AI but I am liking his last 48 hours or so.
Beeboy pressure is good. Not as good as Fuwa pressure but good.
Shadow - More likely to be scum. I pushed him for his opening which I did mostly for neutral reasons. His follow up vote on me felt like he did it because he could I guess and it felt evasive at times. Like #89. It almost feels like he is pressuring me because he doesn't expect me to fight back. He is engaging me using empty hard to engage with points like how my posts feel. And his question about my top 2 reads feels more like vanity then anything else. I truly don't get the vibe he cares if I am town or not.
Tom - Hasn't done anything too special yet, at least in my eyes. pretty netrual.
dkingsland967 - He is picking apart posts and following up on them in a way that I like, back tracking when needed. I think I am ok with him for now/
Re - vote on me, it was less self awareness and more what I picked up as my reasoning for town reading him and it kinda stuck with me.
Kitty - Neutral atm, don't have much more to add.
--------------------
Fuwa - Has a bit of fluff over the few posts but is self aware of the fluff. The grapefruit vote feels really bad to me. I guess I'd vote this slot EoD.
Azreal - Neutral I don't understand this wagon.
Cantrip - I find his analysis to be generally fine and I also really like this quote "Rhand: Are you scum? I ask because normally I have a hard time reading you and you turn out town, but this game I'm mindmelding with you all over the place (to the literal point that I'm not posting some of the things I planned to post because you ninja'd me)."
It feels like a post scum wouldn't make because of how weird it is.
Wisp - My town block.
KJ - Leaning scum on this slot I feel like there is a disconnect between the pressure he is applying, his vote and what he is saying at times and his posts overall just feel weird to me.
I'll look over the rest of the players tomorrow.
Maybe one of them is scum, maybe one of the two remaining also? Is that a thing?
Beeboy: Question: Why are you townreading Wisp so hard?
I think out loud sometimes. But lets talk about this, shadow. Who am I shading, and what specifically am I shading them for?
I'll have more thoughts after you answer.
wagons are good, sitting on a bunch of 1 or 2 trains brings little information
I agree that that hedging is slightly unnecessary, and probably leads more often to a wolf than a town
/shrug
vote: Killjoy
yeet
Cantrip is V/LA currently, don't feel like sitting here anymore, still believe that one line I quoted felt very manipulative
@beeboy <3
I am #1 town baby
Shadow: I'm postulating that there's not two scum that moved from me to beeboy and am wondering if there's one in the two that were on my wagon but didn't go to beeboy. You saying it's shade is wrong. You can't really shade 5 people at once.
I'm kinda feeling line you're shading me though. I'm literally saying "there might be scum in this group because X" and your saying that I'm trying to make them look bad, when X is a totally valid theory, so far as I can tell. You certainly haven't said it's not.
And yes, I do say things like "is that a thing" because I don't actually know if my theory is actually true. That's why I look so hard at the Voxx mentor thread, and why I overexplain my theories. It gives people the chance to come in and say "Hey, uh, Mafia actually might come in excited just because they want to play. Last did that, and I'm mulling that over.
do you even know the post I am talking about?
Shadow: maybe for beeboy. Knowing my alignment though gives me the advantage of not needing my flip before I can analyze it.
Bad choice of words, I meant like. But then again I do agree with his third paragraph, so that makes the agree part true.
Help him read me of course.
Hey o/
Why is this point particularly interesting to you?
Even her push on me?
I usually have a bad memory when it comes to past games, but I'll link the more recent one:
1. Ultimate Reboot
2. Phantom of the Opera
3. Easter Egg Mafia
Or you can just ask Wisp/LastWhisper. He should have my meta. Not that I think it would help much.
---------------------------
/maybe KJ's not scum.
I'm not sure I understand the Beeboy train. Felt very sudden to me.
I am well aware of that.
Then why ask me why I think KJ is town?
And why did you not follow up whne I didn’t answer that question?
The person you were supposedly hard scumreading? You thought he genuinely needed help in figuring you out?
That's probably the best point that has been made against Fuwa in this game. Starting to feel better about you.
Wisp is a town lean from me, tone sounds right from past experience.
Hm. I think I like my Grape vote still. The reason I voted him in the first place was his progression onto Rhand seemed not genuine to me (he always ends up voting Rhand day 1 so there are a lot of comparisons to see how his progression onto him works) and even his "I like rhand more now" feels weird to me. Like you are voting for someone, switch off of them, and when they join your wagon there doesn't seem to be too much caring about it unless I missed it. It feels like a scum Grape knows he always votes Rhand so just does it again. It's a contrast from how he was last game day 1.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
"Hey guys I am power."
Literally thinking this was OK to post.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
The second one is pretty standard fair. I’ve been too lazy as both alignments before.
(Also, it is totally feasible that Beeboy inferred Role madness from his whole team being PRs and then walked it back in any way he could, but there’s no way to know that, but it would be mildly hilarious)