KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I asked for an extension before a category five hurricane formed on my doorstep. I live in the east coast of Florida so... yeah <_<.
Prepping like mad not to die, Hurricanes are scum confirmed, etc.
But I think having an extra day of Grapefruit being useless was telling so that's nice.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
also can someone unvote grape so I can be voting him.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
@Vaimes: if Grape is a hit, what world is scum!me living in? I have been vocal about both the Az and Grape wagon and how they needed more votes.
As an aside, I really don't think these "justify why I'd do this as scum!" exercises work. Scum have more information than town, so why would I know anything about the choices scum make, or what world you're living in? Especially when it comes to bussing, which is inherently overflowing with wine.
Like yeah, maybe you're not scum and I'm just jumping at shadows. Killing two buddies is a decent reason not to murder you.
It doesn't really feel to me like you were the Reason (tm) that Grape got to this point. Maybe you just hitched along because sinking buddy. I have the memory of a goldfish so who even knows man, I just think out loud. I don't even remember how we got to this point, the Day's been pretty slow and I've kinda tuned out a bit.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
I'm gifts storm. Delayer (targeted Beeboy last night) and coroner. The delay ability is remand and it's like a roleblock except the ability works the next night. The coroner is past in flames. Twice per game I can use it to reveal all the dead roles in full.
My role is pretty weak so not worth a CFD over it.
I dunno, I always feel like I gotta tinfoil the deepwolves or else I'll be butthurt about it later. At this point I'm more keeping possible worlds at the forefront of my mind rather than like, pushing for you to be lunched or vigged if Grape flips red.
I find it hilarious that even more so than shadow you've just been trying to shove in down our throats how townie u should be if Grape does in fact flip red
I'm gifts storm. Delayer (targeted Beeboy last night) and coroner. The delay ability is remand and it's like a roleblock except the ability works the next night. The coroner is past in flames. Twice per game I can use it to reveal all the dead roles in full.
My role is pretty weak so not worth a CFD over it.
Cantrip please vig Chris tonight.
so are u confirming the delay on beeboy's slot then? this looks really bad for town!grape
I'm at work, someone else can hammer if they would like
I'm gone for the next 3 hours but will be back after that. So more wolfy pop ins for you all to confirmation bias off.
Why did you target beeboy?
How did you feel after Megiddo claimed he was delayed?
I targeted Beeboy because I thought he was about random to be scum but a decent choice to perform a kill as an under the radar player. I think him claiming that he was delayed is NAI. Too risky not to claim truthfully this early if scum.
KJ, Cantrip, and KCC all feel townie to me.
Chris is scum.
Wisp, tom, and Shadow are the three players I'm having the hardest time pegging. Wisp is there on tone and energy level but he's lacking the tunnel vision he normally has. Tom is tom. But he was really scummy D1 but he's been solid toDay. And scum!tom probably doesn't shoot that early. Shadow on the other hand just feels all kind of wrong but his votes yesterday are so pure.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I was going to say, give me 30 minutes to check some stuff. Now I'm just waiting.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Okay, give me 30 minutes before anyone else hammers please.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
man that reasoning for targeted Beeboy though... sounds pretty god damn straight
though I think the coroner claim is nai in terms of alignment
a justifiable reason for its existence could be a fake claim, as well as being able to know exactly what cards are in play out of the dead players roles
a town delayer is possible
I will eat a dirty sock filled with peanut butter if there is a town Delayer in this game.
I haven't decided anything yet.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I'm gifts storm. Delayer (targeted Beeboy last night) and coroner. The delay ability is remand and it's like a roleblock except the ability works the next night. The coroner is past in flames. Twice per game I can use it to reveal all the dead roles in full.
My role is pretty weak so not worth a CFD over it.
Cantrip please vig Chris tonight.
idk if it makes him town but remand and past in flames are flavor wins here @proph
I will eat a dirty sock filled with peanut butter if there is a town Delayer in this game.
On the other hand, why would scum target BeeBoy? That seems pretty random (This is not a sub claim.) That choice just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense from scum on town Beeboy, whereas, it would seem to make more sense from a Townie who had a scum read on Beeboy. Obviously it's not impossible.
Doc claim is easy for scum on the brink to make, but the extra details are very good if it's fake claim.
I will eat a dirty sock filled with peanut butter if there is a town Delayer in this game.
On the other hand, why would scum target BeeBoy? That seems pretty random (This is not a sub claim.) That choice just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense from scum on town Beeboy, whereas, it would seem to make more sense from a Townie who had a scum read on Beeboy. Obviously it's not impossible.
Doc claim is easy for scum on the brink to make, but the extra details are very good if it's fake claim.
They targeted beeboy because they thought he wasn't vanilla due to his role madness comment. The claim seems way too good to be a fake for the short amount of time megs had to think about it.
There may have been some others. But I'm the only one who speculated that the "Delayer" could have been a Townie targeting someone he thought was scum. Everyone else was strongly on the Delayer being a scum ability.
This is the kind of thing that you respond to if you are the Delayer and you are Town. I am not saying that you claim it. But you respond to it in some way - maybe like I did - to argue with the people who are calling it auto-scum, and/or suggest it could be Town. Otherwise it just looks like the Delayer is scum, and you are screwing yourself later when you claim.
Voting KJ feels awful without having read anything. He was very townie D1. I'll take a look at his recent posts as a way to catch up. Feel much better about Chris votes at this stage because they play to my preconceived biases!
Nothing.
GF then votes Meg (along with Chris?) which might be consistent with thinking Meg/Beeboy was scum last night, but then there's this exchange:
Also Grapefruit why are you voting for Meg as a starting point when he has already claimed? What was your aim with that vote?
To pressure him and start sorting the fuwa wagon/nowhereland votes, I hadn't seen the claim. With that in mind I'd much prefer to
Unvote: Meg
Vote: LW
As for your questions about why I voted you I found you backing off on me really unusual for you. It's not that you don't reevaluate and pivot (you do) it's that you don't do it in a subdued fashion. When you change your mind on someone it's a thing where pound the table, explain what changed your mind, and generally be noisy. Whereas your read on me was much more feeling the room change against you and going with the flow.
As for my KJ read isn't weak. I've been pounding the table on that since D1, he's just town here. His little D1 page by page catch up is more evidence for it. The way he reacts to the Vez/Shadow/Cantrip mess was pure. There is no way scum!KJ goes back to pg 1 and decides to dredge up those reactions to Vez's claim when there was pertinent stuff (tom's vig shot) happening in thread. I guess there is a tom/KJ world where KJ wasn't worried at all about the kill or figuring who to point it at, but given the way tom pushed KJ D1 I find it unlikely.
GF says he missed the claim.
Okay, so while that might possibly explain his nothing initial response (though, it's not just missing the claim, it's also apparently missing every post talking about it and about the "delayer" which is pretty sloppy) it still fails the test here. He Unvotes Meg like the claim makes him a poor choice. Like the fact that Meg was hit by a delayer means Meg is more likely Town as several people were saying.
Except that was not the case, right? You Delayed Meg. So why are you unvoting? Is it because he claimed a completely unproven (and incidentally unclarified "protective" ability)? Even if that was persuasive to you for some reason, isn't this clearly the time to say something. Anything to suggest/hint/imply, anything that the "Delayer" is actually still possibly Town?
Not doing that is...almost incalculably dumb if you were actually Town.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I looked for anytime GF said something about Beeboy D1. If you have the "Delayer" ability you are absolutely going to use it on someone you think is scum.
I found almost nothing.
Beeboy, why do you think this is a role madness game?
V/LA until Friday
Cantrip is almost surely town just for this post lol.
I already thought he was town but why this post?
I'm beginning to think Rhand is town. I have him stuck in my head as scum but I keep agreeing with him... I don't think the asking for past games is particularly AI but I am liking his last 48 hours or so.
Beeboy pressure is good. Not as good as Fuwa pressure but good.
@Vaimes @Beeboy why aren't you voting tom? You both said you'd be happy to so why not?
I'm tired of compromising.
Also not great
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Question for GF. How does the Census thing work? You choose to use in at night and when do the deceased roles get revealed? In the Day scene? Will it include whoever died the night you choose it?
Nothing here is making me feel like keeping GF alive. The fact the census ability doesn't seem particularly useful for scum is very NAI for me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Axel it's shown part of the day scene. I believe it includes any deaths overnight. Confirming that now.
On unvoting Meg I don't really get your point. It was about the lack of anyone counterclaiming a protective of any sort or expressing any skepticism. I know that would have been bad play but that hasn't stopped anyone recently.
I implore you all to go read Chris' ISO. He is blatantly scum here. He is hiding his lack of progressions behind bluster.
Look at his progression toDay. Starts off on me over not much, claims to reevaluate me over nothing when the thread moves that way, jumps on to KJ and stays put till the winds turn back against me and starts pushing me again as if he'd never stopped scum reading me. He is just going with the flow and avoiding rustling feathers over actual content while strutting around confidently.
Still would rather see his claim before we end tho
Intent to hammer in 24 hours.
If Grape hasn't claimed by then, too bad.
I kind of want the entire Chris wagon to explode. Plus shadow.
Still feel like town!Grape doesn't fizzle out like this.
But also scum getting a double vote and completely failing to do anything with it is equally baffling.
Shrug.
Prepping like mad not to die, Hurricanes are scum confirmed, etc.
But I think having an extra day of Grapefruit being useless was telling so that's nice.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Like yeah, maybe you're not scum and I'm just jumping at shadows. Killing two buddies is a decent reason not to murder you.
It doesn't really feel to me like you were the Reason (tm) that Grape got to this point. Maybe you just hitched along because sinking buddy. I have the memory of a goldfish so who even knows man, I just think out loud. I don't even remember how we got to this point, the Day's been pretty slow and I've kinda tuned out a bit.
Why is it funny though?
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
My role is pretty weak so not worth a CFD over it.
Cantrip please vig Chris tonight.
I'm at work, someone else can hammer if they would like
How did you feel after Megiddo claimed he was delayed?
Vote Count 2.13
Grapefruit21 (6): shadowlancerx, tomsloger, Megiddo, osieorb18, vezokpiraka, Cantripmancer
Sir Chris (3): Grapefruit21, KittyCupCake, Grapefruit21
Killjoy (2): Sir Chris, Axelrod, Lastwhisper
tomsloger (1): Vaimes
Abstain (1): Killjoy
With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
The deadline is Tuesday, September 3rd, at 11:59 PM.
osieorb V/LA until the 7th.
Unvote
I targeted Beeboy because I thought he was about random to be scum but a decent choice to perform a kill as an under the radar player. I think him claiming that he was delayed is NAI. Too risky not to claim truthfully this early if scum.
KJ, Cantrip, and KCC all feel townie to me.
Chris is scum.
Wisp, tom, and Shadow are the three players I'm having the hardest time pegging. Wisp is there on tone and energy level but he's lacking the tunnel vision he normally has. Tom is tom. But he was really scummy D1 but he's been solid toDay. And scum!tom probably doesn't shoot that early. Shadow on the other hand just feels all kind of wrong but his votes yesterday are so pure.
Vez and Vaimes are meh townish.
Axel, Osie, and Meg are meh scum-ish.
##vote: Grapefruit
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
FINAL Vote Count 2.14
Grapefruit21 (7): shadowlancerx, tomsloger, Megiddo, osieorb18, vezokpiraka, Cantripmancer, Sir Chris
Sir Chris (3): Grapefruit21, KittyCupCake, Grapefruit21
Killjoy (2): Axelrod, Lastwhisper
tomsloger (1): Vaimes
Abstain (1): Killjoy
THIS IS WRONG
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Sorry for false alarm!
Grapefruit21 (6): shadowlancerx, tomsloger, Megiddo, osieorb18, vezokpiraka, Sir Chris
Sir Chris (3): Grapefruit21, KittyCupCake, Grapefruit21
Killjoy (2): Axelrod, Lastwhisper
tomsloger (1): Vaimes
Abstain (2): Killjoy, Cantripmancer
though I think the coroner claim is nai in terms of alignment
a justifiable reason for its existence could be a fake claim, as well as being able to know exactly what cards are in play out of the dead players roles
a town delayer is possible
Second choice is kj atp.
Can lock in grape/megs not w/w
Including the post I quoted above from Vaimes, there were several people who had a reaction to Megs claim, i.e. "protective role" hit by a "delay." There may have been some others. But I'm the only one who speculated that the "Delayer" could have been a Townie targeting someone he thought was scum. Everyone else was strongly on the Delayer being a scum ability.
This is the kind of thing that you respond to if you are the Delayer and you are Town. I am not saying that you claim it. But you respond to it in some way - maybe like I did - to argue with the people who are calling it auto-scum, and/or suggest it could be Town. Otherwise it just looks like the Delayer is scum, and you are screwing yourself later when you claim.
What did GF say in his first post after all that?
Nothing.
GF then votes Meg (along with Chris?) which might be consistent with thinking Meg/Beeboy was scum last night, but then there's this exchange:
GF says he missed the claim.
Okay, so while that might possibly explain his nothing initial response (though, it's not just missing the claim, it's also apparently missing every post talking about it and about the "delayer" which is pretty sloppy) it still fails the test here. He Unvotes Meg like the claim makes him a poor choice. Like the fact that Meg was hit by a delayer means Meg is more likely Town as several people were saying.
Except that was not the case, right? You Delayed Meg. So why are you unvoting? Is it because he claimed a completely unproven (and incidentally unclarified "protective" ability)? Even if that was persuasive to you for some reason, isn't this clearly the time to say something. Anything to suggest/hint/imply, anything that the "Delayer" is actually still possibly Town?
Not doing that is...almost incalculably dumb if you were actually Town.
I found almost nothing.
August 8 August 14 Also not great
Question for GF. How does the Census thing work? You choose to use in at night and when do the deceased roles get revealed? In the Day scene? Will it include whoever died the night you choose it?
Nothing here is making me feel like keeping GF alive. The fact the census ability doesn't seem particularly useful for scum is very NAI for me.
On unvoting Meg I don't really get your point. It was about the lack of anyone counterclaiming a protective of any sort or expressing any skepticism. I know that would have been bad play but that hasn't stopped anyone recently.
Look at his progression toDay. Starts off on me over not much, claims to reevaluate me over nothing when the thread moves that way, jumps on to KJ and stays put till the winds turn back against me and starts pushing me again as if he'd never stopped scum reading me. He is just going with the flow and avoiding rustling feathers over actual content while strutting around confidently.
The roles are shown publicly. Yes.