2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Possibly Fuwa is town cleared by Grape flipping scum too. Or maybe Grape's scum tactics include serious sounding attacks on buddies.
613 could be town!Tom indicative since he pivots to Tom while downplaying the Az wagon.
Grape, why did you say that I (as one of four) could be town in 97, but then question in 228 Shadow's placement of me as "town lean" (with no suspicion of me in between)?
About halfway through Grape's iso, more as time permits.
If this is directed at me, then I haven't seen anything that strongly indicates your alignment from a scum!Grape flip, but your 1892 and subsequent posts definitely have lessened my desire to see you dead. I still think there's a chance you're scum, but if you are, you've successfully broken my tunnel perspective on you.
Okay, I read the later part of Grapefruit's ISO, and I'd be okay with a lunch there. Lots of deflection. Checking out Chris and then Vezok now, followed by closer looks at Wisp, Vaimes, Killjoy, tomsloger, Axelrod, Megiddo, KCC (in order).
Cantrip and Shadow are both pretty firmly town to me, and I'm very confident that they're not scum together.
Outside of Grapefruit, my POE is (in no particular order): Chris, KCC, Killjoy, Vaimes, Vezok. With a side of tomsloger.
Okay, I read the later part of Grapefruit's ISO, and I'd be okay with a lunch there. Lots of deflection. Checking out Chris and then Vezok now, followed by closer looks at Wisp, Vaimes, Killjoy, tomsloger, Axelrod, Megiddo, KCC (in order).
Cantrip and Shadow are both pretty firmly town to me, and I'm very confident that they're not scum together.
Outside of Grapefruit, my POE is (in no particular order): Chris, KCC, Killjoy, Vaimes, Vezok. With a side of tomsloger.
why kcc?
why vaimes?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Okay, I read the later part of Grapefruit's ISO, and I'd be okay with a lunch there. Lots of deflection. Checking out Chris and then Vezok now, followed by closer looks at Wisp, Vaimes, Killjoy, tomsloger, Axelrod, Megiddo, KCC (in order).
Cantrip and Shadow are both pretty firmly town to me, and I'm very confident that they're not scum together.
Outside of Grapefruit, my POE is (in no particular order): Chris, KCC, Killjoy, Vaimes, Vezok. With a side of tomsloger.
why kcc?
why vaimes?
Why me lol?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
So, I'm looking at Sir Chris's stuff this day and I have to say that his pseudo-defeatism is getting to me. How he's practically conceding his own death. It's very smooth if he's scum, and I'm feeling a certain sincerity there. Couple that with how he would have had to have been playing a fairly different game as scum on D1 than he has in the past (by not choosing to bus Az) and it's got me leaning against his lynch, even though I feel like his claim is kind of meh.
Anyone wants to direct me to a game where scum-Chris behaved anything like this I'd be interested to see.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
If he is, he's playing exceptionally well. He's near the top of my town list.
Osie, how far have you read from the beginning? What caused Shadow and I to make the early town cut?
I'm not far in on a direct reread (like 5 pages or something). The timing on the early game help posts made it unlikely the two of you were aligned, and then I ISO'd you individually and liked what I saw in terms of trying to solve, and organic reactions with minimal attempt at manipulation.
Okay, I read the later part of Grapefruit's ISO, and I'd be okay with a lunch there. Lots of deflection. Checking out Chris and then Vezok now, followed by closer looks at Wisp, Vaimes, Killjoy, tomsloger, Axelrod, Megiddo, KCC (in order).
Cantrip and Shadow are both pretty firmly town to me, and I'm very confident that they're not scum together.
Outside of Grapefruit, my POE is (in no particular order): Chris, KCC, Killjoy, Vaimes, Vezok. With a side of tomsloger.
why kcc?
why vaimes?
Vaimes felt very fake at the start. KCC I need to reread but it seemed like they were swinging at windmills and provoking people, and I'm not sure if that's Wisp-style aggression or just scumminess.
Vaimes progressions this game do not feel organic.
He starts off on a hard-tunnel on Cantrip of all people, then semi-pushes Azrael, then drops Azrael like a rock while voting Cantrip, and trying to get people to scumread tomsloger and Chris. He then jumps on Azrael again as if "Oh, this is where I should have been" with no commentary.
His follow-up where he explains an Az read is okay. It weans me off a little. But like, his play overall is lackluster this game.
In other news, reads (based on ISOs) until I get back to Cantrip/Shadow again:
Townie:
Sir Chris - I feel like Chris's AtE throughout the second half of this game has been very legitimately town. It doesn't look like he's backing down on solving.
Cantripmancer - Cantrip feels pure here. I like Cantrip for town.
shadowlancerx - Similar thoughts to Cantrip, but I don't like leaving Shadow alive to XyLO. Did nobody cop-check him yet?
vezokpiraka - Verifying condition at start is a good look. Vezok's push on Azrael is solid and does not appear to be a bus. I had a tinfoil about early posts, but I'm liking him more after the ISO.
Lastwhisper r. Syrenz - Soulread town, and interaction with Az looks good for Wisp. Some of his usual causticness but it looks like he's toned down a bit and towned up a bit more.
Not-so-Townie:
Grapefruit21 - Could be scum. I liked the starting posts, and the beginning of his push on Az seemed okay, but the deflection near the end of the day looks very suspicious.
Vaimes - Could be scum. That Cantrip push feels artificial, Az/KJ/Vaimes team ping in #118. Posts #126, #187 seem real, tbf. I think Vaimes feels like he's crazy fake in the early game. His Azrael push could be a bus. I don't like the majority of Vaimes's posting this game, though.
ISO Reread Order (Since it's quicker and more effective than rapid thread rereading): Killjoy, tomsloger, KCC, Axelrod, Megiddo, Shadow, Cantrip
Could you explain your current thoughts on KCC and your current idea of who the scum are with reasoning? You've been flipping around a lot, often drastically, and I'm trying to decide if I think that's town indecision or scum flailing.
Couple that with how he would have had to have been playing a fairly different game as scum on D1 than he has in the past (by not choosing to bus Az)
This would be a much stronger point if Chris hadn't spent half the game saying he can't be scum because it's not his scummeta.
there two main points here
Ive never seen scumchris play to his (team) win condition before
Ive never seen townchris this wifomy
Basically the scumchris world he decided to open wolf and count on his rep but then realized only, like, a few people here knew that rep and felt the need to exposit it?
@Tom: While you're here, do you think that a KJ+Grape world is likely or no?
ive seen nothing for or against really, other than both belonging to powerwolfy teams
So yes
Yeah, I'm currently trying to wrap my head around the two of them. They both individually seem scummy, but I'm not sure if any distance between them is real or artificial. It certainly could go either way for the EoD1 stuff. At the moment, my teambuilding always starts out with at least one of the two of them, but I'm not sure who the 4th (or more) person(s) would be. I'mma finish rereading though.
I originally said there was likely 1-2 in these 6. (I say 1-2 instead of just 1 due to the speed of the wagon.) With dking's out, there's 1-2 in Rhand, Cantripmancer, Axelrod, tomsloger, shadowlancerx. I don't think there's >1 scum in Rhand, Cantripmancer, Axelrod as they are basically just barning each other and I don't think scum typically interact like that. Well... ballsier scum might? I don't beleive they are ballsier scum though.
And the way he interacts with Tom in the early game looks very scum-on-town. Or just childish.
Killjoy's being very superficial in his responses early Day 1.
Interaction with Azrael in #1075 is bad. I'm not convinced that KJ and Grape are scum together, but KJ's interactions with Grape are able to be coordinated.
Couple that with how he would have had to have been playing a fairly different game as scum on D1 than he has in the past (by not choosing to bus Az)
This would be a much stronger point if Chris hadn't spent half the game saying he can't be scum because it's not his scummeta.
You are not wrong, it's just that the way he is doing it would seem to be so different. And it's incredibly good fakery this day at least. It's hard (he says) to sound properly indignant when one is scum, and indignant and defeatist at the same time is doubly hard.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Couple that with how he would have had to have been playing a fairly different game as scum on D1 than he has in the past (by not choosing to bus Az)
This would be a much stronger point if Chris hadn't spent half the game saying he can't be scum because it's not his scummeta.
You are not wrong, it's just that the way he is doing it would seem to be so different.
I don't know what his normal meta looks like, but it doesn't matter here. I know what insincerity looks like, I know what mindset slips look like, and they're not really affected by meta.
And it's incredibly good fakery this day at least.
Agree to disagree
It's hard (he says) to sound properly indignant when one is scum, and indignant and defeatist at the same time is doubly hard.
Also, Osie's claim/clarification of Fuwa's claim is about 1000% better than what Fuwa initially said. Cryptic Command with a "choose two" out of four possible effects is cool. My issue is just that Fuwa...didn't say that. He said choose 1 of these 3.
I'm slightly troubled by "I'm leaving out one of the abilities which Fuwa also left out." I can certainly imagine reasons to leave something out. It's just that Fuwa really shouldn't have been being secretive at the moment he was claiming - his neck was practically in the noose. He also didn't strike me as the especially sneaky type. That post looked pretty dashed off, not something that was carefully crafted to disguise the complete nature of his abilities. And if he was going to leave something out for reasons, seems like he would have just said that?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Megiddo: Why did YOU vote Grapefruit? Can you elaborate on your current reads of the game state?
i read his iso. early game interactions with Az were nonexistent outside of mechanical clarifications. Weaksauce votes talking about people and not with them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Also, Osie's claim/clarification of Fuwa's claim is about 1000% better than what Fuwa initially said. Cryptic Command with a "choose two" out of four possible effects is cool. My issue is just that Fuwa...didn't say that. He said choose 1 of these 3.
I'm slightly troubled by "I'm leaving out one of the abilities which Fuwa also left out." I can certainly imagine reasons to leave something out. It's just that Fuwa really shouldn't have been being secretive at the moment he was claiming - his neck was practically in the noose. He also didn't strike me as the especially sneaky type. That post looked pretty dashed off, not something that was carefully crafted to disguise the complete nature of his abilities. And if he was going to leave something out for reasons, seems like he would have just said that?
Fuwa is female, Axel.
I have an inkling as to why she left out that particular mode, and that it was a choose 2. She is also not someone who really panics as much as you're suggesting, I think. I also believe she may have not realized the flavour significance of Cryptic given that she doesn't play Magic (as of yet; I may work on that at some point). The post feeling dashed off was probably more the manner in which it was delivered than the manner in which it was written, but on that front. That's going deep even for someone who knows Fuwa somewhat better than most.
@Cantrip: What's your vig shortlist at the moment?
I'm not sure we need to hear this??
Hi! I'm Osie. I don't think we've met. Why are you getting in my way when I'm asking someone else a question?
I'm not a huge fan of the slot you hopped into, and I don't think we need to hear this
Not a huge fan -> Either a hard scumread or you're just intentionally getting in the way of what is more often than not attempting to form and draw out reads. One way or another, you end up with a disconnect, and generally not great town behaviour on your part.
osie, KCC is like. Soft town for the moment. Megs is right, this game has a weird vibe. I don’t have any strong scumreads, but I have some minor bad feelings about shadow and tom.
Kinda waffling on Fuwaslot. I felt confident she was town after being Azrael’s CW, and the way he seemed not to have a care in the world when it looked like people were swapping to her, but then she did almost literally nothing outside of that and I’m eh.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
613 could be town!Tom indicative since he pivots to Tom while downplaying the Az wagon.
Grape, why did you say that I (as one of four) could be town in 97, but then question in 228 Shadow's placement of me as "town lean" (with no suspicion of me in between)?
About halfway through Grape's iso, more as time permits.
Hush you, I'm trying to appear solvey and stuff.
(The comment you quoted is me looking at you within almost exclusively the scum!Grape framework. Yes, you are probably town from the Az wagon, too.)
Cantrip and Shadow are both pretty firmly town to me, and I'm very confident that they're not scum together.
Outside of Grapefruit, my POE is (in no particular order): Chris, KCC, Killjoy, Vaimes, Vezok. With a side of tomsloger.
Yes.
why vaimes?
If he is, he's playing exceptionally well. He's near the top of my town list.
Osie, how far have you read from the beginning? What caused Shadow and I to make the early town cut?
Why me lol?
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Anyone wants to direct me to a game where scum-Chris behaved anything like this I'd be interested to see.
I'm not far in on a direct reread (like 5 pages or something). The timing on the early game help posts made it unlikely the two of you were aligned, and then I ISO'd you individually and liked what I saw in terms of trying to solve, and organic reactions with minimal attempt at manipulation.
Vaimes felt very fake at the start. KCC I need to reread but it seemed like they were swinging at windmills and provoking people, and I'm not sure if that's Wisp-style aggression or just scumminess.
He starts off on a hard-tunnel on Cantrip of all people, then semi-pushes Azrael, then drops Azrael like a rock while voting Cantrip, and trying to get people to scumread tomsloger and Chris. He then jumps on Azrael again as if "Oh, this is where I should have been" with no commentary.
His follow-up where he explains an Az read is okay. It weans me off a little. But like, his play overall is lackluster this game.
In other news, reads (based on ISOs) until I get back to Cantrip/Shadow again:
Townie:
Not-so-Townie:
ISO Reread Order (Since it's quicker and more effective than rapid thread rereading): Killjoy, tomsloger, KCC, Axelrod, Megiddo, Shadow, Cantrip
This would be a much stronger point if Chris hadn't spent half the game saying he can't be scum because it's not his scummeta.
Could you explain your current thoughts on KCC and your current idea of who the scum are with reasoning? You've been flipping around a lot, often drastically, and I'm trying to decide if I think that's town indecision or scum flailing.
Ive never seen scumchris play to his (team) win condition before
Ive never seen townchris this wifomy
Basically the scumchris world he decided to open wolf and count on his rep but then realized only, like, a few people here knew that rep and felt the need to exposit it?
So yes
Yeah, I'm currently trying to wrap my head around the two of them. They both individually seem scummy, but I'm not sure if any distance between them is real or artificial. It certainly could go either way for the EoD1 stuff. At the moment, my teambuilding always starts out with at least one of the two of them, but I'm not sure who the 4th (or more) person(s) would be. I'mma finish rereading though.
And the way he interacts with Tom in the early game looks very scum-on-town. Or just childish.
Killjoy's being very superficial in his responses early Day 1.
Interaction with Azrael in #1075 is bad. I'm not convinced that KJ and Grape are scum together, but KJ's interactions with Grape are able to be coordinated.
No. This game is just weird.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
And less than half this game is from here anyway
I can say its still harder here than shorter phases but it still works if your team shows up...
This game looks like a mess on the part of the scumteam. There's also too many JOATS:
Wisp (Town Soft-claimed JOAT-Esque)
Osie/Fuwa (Town 1-shot JOAT-Esque)
Vezok (Town JOAT-Esque)
Azrael (Scum JOAT)
Vote Count 2.10
Grapefruit21 (4): shadowlancerx, tomsloger, Megiddo, Cantripmancer
Sir Chris (3): Grapefruit21, Lastwhisper, KittyCupCake
Killjoy (2): Sir Chris, vezokpiraka
Lastwhisper (1): Grapefruit21
tomsloger (1): Vaimes
Abstain (3): Axelrod, osieorb18, Killjoy
With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Killjoy V/LA until the 31st
48 hour extension granted. The deadline is now Tuesday, September 3rd, at 11:59 PM.
Fine with this wagon. Posting has been awful.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Don't want a quick hammer.
Agree to disagree
I agree, but I don't think he's pulled that off
I'm slightly troubled by "I'm leaving out one of the abilities which Fuwa also left out." I can certainly imagine reasons to leave something out. It's just that Fuwa really shouldn't have been being secretive at the moment he was claiming - his neck was practically in the noose. He also didn't strike me as the especially sneaky type. That post looked pretty dashed off, not something that was carefully crafted to disguise the complete nature of his abilities. And if he was going to leave something out for reasons, seems like he would have just said that?
Hi! I'm Osie. I don't think we've met. Why are you getting in my way when I'm asking someone else a question?
I'm not a huge fan of the slot you hopped into, and I don't think we need to hear this
Fuwa is female, Axel.
I have an inkling as to why she left out that particular mode, and that it was a choose 2. She is also not someone who really panics as much as you're suggesting, I think. I also believe she may have not realized the flavour significance of Cryptic given that she doesn't play Magic (as of yet; I may work on that at some point). The post feeling dashed off was probably more the manner in which it was delivered than the manner in which it was written, but on that front. That's going deep even for someone who knows Fuwa somewhat better than most.
Not a huge fan -> Either a hard scumread or you're just intentionally getting in the way of what is more often than not attempting to form and draw out reads. One way or another, you end up with a disconnect, and generally not great town behaviour on your part.
osie, KCC is like. Soft town for the moment. Megs is right, this game has a weird vibe. I don’t have any strong scumreads, but I have some minor bad feelings about shadow and tom.
Kinda waffling on Fuwaslot. I felt confident she was town after being Azrael’s CW, and the way he seemed not to have a care in the world when it looked like people were swapping to her, but then she did almost literally nothing outside of that and I’m eh.
Fair. I don't like the chances of scum!Cantrip mechanically, but behaviorally he is more town than scum so whatever.
KCC is my last ISO and I'm between her and Meg-Boy for third scummiest player after KJ and Grape.
Yeah, I wasn't really asking for your advice somehow.
Can you explain how announcing vig targets to the RBer is such great town play?