The Thought-Knot Seer and Wurmcoil Engine cards align fairly well with the abilities Az claimed. However, there is no ability on any iteration of Karn that comes even close to translating to a copping ability.
Follow up with more thought was just a few later in 883 (but after Vaimes, Vez, and Rhand had weighed in against Az, and Wisp said he believe Az):
Yeah I’ve given it some thought, and I’m convinced Azrael is scum and I’m not moving my vote either.
1) As Axelrod pointed out, some of the wording in the claim was very clunky. I doubt a player as cerebral as Azrael didn’t have a firm grip on his abilities.
2) The thing about all three abilities not being usable until all three lands are in play doesn’t jive to me. It would make more sense if his abilities “leveled up”. And on that note, even if he’s true-claiming that aspect, the bomb ability is by far the strongest of the three and I feel like it would be #3 on the list.
3) I repeat: the claimed cop shot makes zero sense. On a scale of 1-5 where 1 is “Mountain - Kill a player” and 5 is “Murder - Kill a player”, claiming Karn as a cop shot might be a 0.
4) Az conveniently left out which version of Karn represents his ability, and I think he did it to dodge a counterclaim. If someone pops up and says their ability is a particular Karn, he can turn around and say his is a different one.
My guess: he true-claimed the TKS ability, probably true-claimed the Wurmcoil one, but the third ability is a pant load.
Axel, are you approaching this from the perspective of "initial" reactions (and thus, DK's 883 carries less impact, especially after more people had weighed in questioning Az's claim)?
Sorry if I'm garcia'ing the conversation, but I think you're both town and I don't want the distraction of a town-town fight right now. Pay attention to MY town-claimed!town fight instead.
Doom and gloom? Far from it, I think town learned a lot from day 1 and it is incredibly helpful, however with the amount of people I have as town read and looking over people's lists I am squarely not town read by just about anyone. My lynch is likely inevitable which isn't a bad thing for town overall probably as it should provide clarity. I am not saying today or anything and it isn't like I am going to stop posting or answering questions, but writing is kind of on the wall. I am quite pleased with the direction of the game.
I don't know why people think I am egotistical or that me being wrong about Az would effect me in any way. Right, wrong, it happens in mafia. We overcame my misread, lynched scum day 1, and although my read was wrong we gained information which the only cost was to my accuracy rate, which I am perfectly fine getting over.
Also I am fine with my effort today, I have made my reads and am mulling over things. Going max effort all the time just isn't viable for me any more so I have to think on things. If you look at my history me being wrong day 1 is much more in my town meta than my scum meta, as hilarious as that is! I don't like being wrong as scum, I am a total control freak. I certainly wouldn't buck that trend to be the only person defending Az for like 3 straight days.
Speaking of, assume I am town for a moment please Vezok - that would mean literally no scum defended Az for many, many days. What does this mean to you? Does it shake any of your reads?
Ah, I didn't explain the thoughts in my head very well on Wisp. Dk said "this wasn't the scum response I was expecting" but upon reading what Wisp wrote about how he should have paid more attention and not posted in v/la it seemed almost confessional rather than explaining a town thought process. Like "Oh yeah, probably shouldn't have tried to save my buddy there and gotten the facts wrong oops." So when Wisp was going over his process it felt neutral in its defense, not alignment indicating. I believe him when he says he didn't realize Az had stopped pushing as hard, but that mistake can be made as either alignment. I can understand the confusion though, I didn't really put any of this to paper.
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I am just doing initial reactions for now. Since I haven't got to the part where all the votes started shifting. I'm not making anything about DK expanding his reasons a few posts later. But HE said that I was misrepresenting him and that is simply not the case.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Speaking of, assume I am town for a moment please Vezok - that would mean literally no scum defended Az for many, many days. What does this mean to you? Does it shake any of your reads?
? You don't feel like Wisp was defending Az?
Quote from Chris »
Ah, I didn't explain the thoughts in my head very well on Wisp. Dk said "this wasn't the scum response I was expecting" but upon reading what Wisp wrote about how he should have paid more attention and not posted in v/la it seemed almost confessional rather than explaining a town thought process. Like "Oh yeah, probably shouldn't have tried to save my buddy there and gotten the facts wrong oops." So when Wisp was going over his process it felt neutral in its defense, not alignment indicating. I believe him when he says he didn't realize Az had stopped pushing as hard, but that mistake can be made as either alignment. I can understand the confusion though, I didn't really put any of this to paper.
Ok. Say Tom shoots Wisp and he flips town; who do you go after for the lunch? What if Wisp flips scum?
If Wisp was actively going against the Az lynch like I was I certainly do not remember it. I off hand know he made a couple of notes but he didn't seem gung ho until later on, but I can check back and see if my memory is accurate.
I will ponder on both worlds and get back to you.
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You mentioned you don't have as much time as you'd like, which I totally get, so I don't need a wall, just one or two names with basic reasoning would be nice.
I don't do the best with basic because I think too many thoughts for my own good.
If Wisp is town I have to sincerely go back and read over the game because my PoE suddenly becomes unlikely and narrow. Tom still looks bad but that's the only thing that sticks out to me. Also I'd have to look into low content posters such as beeboy who was a non factor and thus it'd make sense if a lot of people who were interacting at eod were town if someone who wasn't, beeboy, was actually scum.
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Next person to weigh in was LW and he says "I'm not lynching that claim" Also says he doesn't know enough about Magic to decide if it could be a lie or not. So, again, not the best of looks for LW, though he is at least consistent.
Then DK comes back with his expanded 4-point argument for why he doesn't believe the claim (referenced above). Points 1 + 2 are fine as far as they go, I mean, one was mine. 3 + 4 are bad reasons. I'm not exactly docking DK for being correct about Az, but as far as Az voters go, this is still one that I could see coming from a Busser. Perhaps when I go further back in time to where DK voted Az to begin with I'll feel better about it.
Sir Chris chimed in next and after some pondering comes up with "leaning Town." His main issue as far as I can tell is that he does not believe a scum-Az would claim so poorly. Which is one of those WIFOMish, too scummy to be scum arguments.
Vez then dropped his "bomb" counter-claiming Az as a JOAT. Which Sir Chris is very quick to caution that "given what this game seems to be" that doesn't necessarily make Az scum. I am not sure what he meant by that. Just that you think there are a lot of roles/abilities? Even so.
Tom posts and it appears that he reads Vez's counter-claim as a slam dunk against Az. But then says/does nothing else. I'll reiterate that this just does not seem to me like Town behavior.
KCC posts and still thinks Az is scum. Fine.
GF comes back and says he's tired and distracted and has "no real insight on anything." But he doesn't want to lynch a claimed Cop shot and appears willing to let Az live to D3 to give him a chance to use it. He also says that his request for a vig to shoot Az was actually a joke (which, it didn't really look like a joke) because he hates the Tron deck IRL. Obviously not the best of takes. I do dislike the number of people (well, maybe it's only 2-3) who are claiming distractions/busy inability to really think about things.
I give my further take in #905 and say that I think it's more likely Az is scum then town, and for people to consider my vote there. *pats self on back*
Cantrip posts at #506 and basically barned everyone. Which is a bit contradictory, as he's barning the people who have problems with the claim and also Chris who is defending the claim. Actually, looking at the post, the things he is quoting suggest more defense of Az than his ultimate conclusion, which is still "leaning scum." Appears conflicted, which is not an unreasonable place to be. He also wants to know which Karn Az is claiming though, and I will still maintain this is a silly if not completely pointless question.
Sir Chris sort of solidifies his Town-Az read with the "why would he claim like that if he was scum" logic, and votes Cantrip. He's looking at where Cantrip barned him on the reasons to believe Az's claim, but is still voting for Az. Eh.
Cantrip cryptically hints he has another reason to want to lynch Az that he can't reveal atm. Is this still the case? Was this the first time you said something like this? I'm not checking back right now.
Shadow posts and appear to be buying what Sir Chris is selling. Says he's going to start looking for alternative targets though still not thrilled at the idea of leaving Az unmolested for so long.
Chris's next target is Grapefruit. Also asks for someone to unvote Az so the day doesn't end prematurely. Shadow accommodates him. Is this where momentum started to turn?
Tune in next week! Or tomorrow. Or later tonight even. One of those.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Wisp repeatedly vocalized disinterest in Az, even if he wasn't specifically defending him. Actually, I have a moment, I'll do a review of Wisp as he pertains to Az.
294 says Az isn't getting the elaboration from Wisp's prior slot holder. 313 weighs in on his predecessor's read on Vez (in response to Az's question). 455 asks why Az's vote is sitting on Wisp's slot. 523 is where Wisp starts questioning Az, primarily for Az's read on Wisp's previous slot-holder, but then analyzes an Az post and starts off saying it looks good, but ends saying that it's too big-brained for him (Wisp). 548 says Az still has yet to explain why Wisp is a wolf. 566 votes Az because Az hasn't answered his question. 568 says he doesn't think Az will flip a wolf, but has a lot of spew if he does. Says the town read of Grape makes them highly unlikely to be aligned. 602 says he's waiting on Az to blow his mind with an explanation. 621 votes KCC. 626 unvotes KCC after being told how close the Day is to deadline. 632 "back to this, then" votes Az. 643 says that Az really has done nothing townie or wolfy. 682 encourages Beeboy to get on the Az wagon rather than voting Shadow. 744 says he can't understand why Az can't explain why Az is scumreading Wisp's slot.
Then the reversal: 757 is the Az unvote that felt weird to me. 814 was the reads list he gave when I asked for one, with Az in a special unlabeled (but obviously town) category all to himself.
Wisp, can you explain why Az got his own tier there?
819 Wisp explains (in response to DK's question) that he decided to 180 his Az read. 820 he tells Vaimes that he only suspected Az for the mudslinging Az was doing toward Wisp's slot. 823 Wisp says he doesn't think Az has done much of anything wolfy, but it's a pretty noncommital read. 882 says he's not lunching Az's claim. 1217 is the "Az did what he should have done as either alignment; vote Fuwa" post.
Yup, still think Wisp and Chris should be frontrunners for the vig shot.
Wisp, these three posts feel to me like you're contradicting yourself on your read of the Az-Grape relationship; can you explain?
For example, that town read of grape means they are highly unlikely to be aligned, and also Cupcake's #556 makes them also unlikely aligned since I don't think a wolf insults their partner like that
I also have to agree with Vaimes, though its more like Azrael has done nothing townie nor wolfy for that matter, and I honestly don't understand why he makes that read on Grapefruit in any w/v scenario
I wasn't actively doing anything that's what v/la is, but like I don't ignore games so I still tried to tune in whenever I could. The problem is that MTGS and my free Canada data didn't go hand and hand, I tried for the most part, but I gave up after a while and only tuned in when I was on my friends wifi, and by then I had to go to sleep to wake up in the morning
KCC was the one that was on Azreal the most, and like there is always the possibility he was bussing straight from the start for the cred, but that depends on the context of his posts, which I still haven't look, but he's still the most clear atm next to vezok, since I don't humor deep wolfs on day 2
Most day 1 bussers tend to come off really aggressive, and I don't really recall that kind of behavior
The whole Tom coming in for the whole the hammer fake out, reminds of a passed game, where he was a wolf, in which he either love to mention missing the hammer, or would hammer at the last second
Also wolfs tend to hammer wolves it's my go to read, so yes I could humor that
unvote:
I want to look back at Chris's overall progression on Azreal when I get the chance, he might be the power wolf hard defending his buddy
vote: Chris
Still want to give shadow the benefit of the doubt for being the top poster, even though I still believe the posts I pointed out are relatively wolfy
Also the whole knowing his role claim seemed fake feels like TMI, and it's an overall weird interaction now that Azreal flipped red
Actually, since Tom being scum is actually a possibility, I'd like him to weigh in with a) confirmation that he's serious about his vig shot and b) who HIS choice is before we come to a consensus. I don't want to agree on a scumbuddy and have him come back and go "oh, just kidding; that was a reaction test" because he doesn't want to kill who we choose.
Axel, I was barning what I thought were good points, and Chris's point about Az messing up a claim was a good one. I maaaaaay have gone a little overboard on the /barns because I was having fun with them, but I still pretty much stand behind them. (And it was 906, not 506. ) And I was pretty late to weigh in on the claim, so I wasn't going to fabricate reasons one way or another; most my concerns had been vocalized, and I hadn't decided if I wanted to voice that I had a "secret" reason (either as I did or spelling it out). Yes, I still have my secret reason; no, I don't want to reveal it yet; yes, I believe that was the first time I had mentioned it.
I am not a man who tries to catch the bad, obvious scum. Two games in a row it has been proven I don't need my eyes set there, other people got that covered!
Also I wonder how people justify me saying that to Az as scum/scum, Wisp. Why is that scummy? What would possess me to defend my scum buddy with "I know you haven't said everything" it is just... I am legitimately confused what I am being accused of half the time.
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Vez then dropped his "bomb" counter-claiming Az as a JOAT. Which Sir Chris is very quick to caution that "given what this game seems to be" that doesn't necessarily make Az scum. I am not sure what he meant by that.
I can't believe I missed this. The scum have multiple JoaTs
I am not a man who tries to catch the bad, obvious scum. Two games in a row it has been proven I don't need my eyes set there, other people got that covered!
Also I wonder how people justify me saying that to Az as scum/scum, Wisp. Why is that scummy? What would possess me to defend my scum buddy with "I know you haven't said everything" it is just... I am legitimately confused what I am being accused of half the time.
You really don't see why your "guess" that Az hadn't disclosed all of his role feels like TMI?
Do me a favor: pretend that I was the one who asked Az that question and that Az's 990 was directed at me. Break that response down. Especially knowing that Az is scum, what is scum!Az doing with that response?
Vez then dropped his "bomb" counter-claiming Az as a JOAT. Which Sir Chris is very quick to caution that "given what this game seems to be" that doesn't necessarily make Az scum. I am not sure what he meant by that.
I can't believe I missed this. The scum have multiple JoaTs
Fuwa and last have also claimed a variant of Joat for what it’s worth.
I am not a man who tries to catch the bad, obvious scum. Two games in a row it has been proven I don't need my eyes set there, other people got that covered!
Also I wonder how people justify me saying that to Az as scum/scum, Wisp. Why is that scummy? What would possess me to defend my scum buddy with "I know you haven't said everything" it is just... I am legitimately confused what I am being accused of half the time.
You really don't see why your "guess" that Az hadn't disclosed all of his role feels like TMI?
Do me a favor: pretend that I was the one who asked Az that question and that Az's 990 was directed at me. Break that response down. Especially knowing that Az is scum, what is scum!Az doing with that response?
TMI there dictates that I vote him for it. TMI is making correct assumptions with scum knowledge. So if Beeboy is town me hopping on him being town early is at least a valid TMI thought because it is a possibility. Me saying something while defending a scum and calling it TMI just makes no sense.
Also I would read basically no one as scum for what I said there because I don't think scum use that as a tact to defend their heavily suspected buddy.
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lastly, how is my vote an omgus, when you voted me after calling you out, and I only voted you because you confirmed yourself to be the person I was FoSing
ya that whole exchange is wolfy as *****
vote: Shadow
his macro play means literally nothing to me after all this
#triggered
What on earth does macro play mean in this context?
So wisp flipping out like that is not a good look to me. He's an emotional guy in general and have seen him lose his cool before several times. But it's almost always been scornful and pointed at someone he thinks is being stupid. This is not that. Combined with all the typically nonsense reads that smells like scum.
@Axel my vig comment was a joke and self referential to my RVS. It's quite possible it didn't read as a joke as I'm horrendously unfunny.
Cantrip ive been over
Vezok for the way hes given out his role info, especially in light of az flip
KCC i was mostly there on, like, conviction/engagement or whatever but is also just not scum with az
So my gut target is beeboy.
Still think his process on cantrip was off, and popin posts around az lynch were soaked in scum motivation
But almost definitely gonna give megs some time tbh
How much time? If you’re gonna shoot him, wouldn’t it behoove you to just say “dude, imma shoot you, you prolly should claim”. Stops him from wasting time trying to catch up.
Neither seems great to me though.
Ive literally never seen scumchris do anything prowolf hes too worried about looking town and being right
Az push on syrenz was really absolute and just ignoring the replacement seems like a scum excuse to just ignore lasts posts and push the slot
So my gut target is beeboy.
Still think his process on cantrip was off, and popin posts around az lynch were soaked in scum motivation
But almost definitely gonna give megs some time tbh
How much time? If you’re gonna shoot him, wouldn’t it behoove you to just say “dude, imma shoot you, you prolly should claim”. Stops him from wasting time trying to catch up.
ok so
Like every part of me wanted to open the day with the shot and see what happens
But im being responsible.
I never did catch up yesterday and the 5 or so pages im missing are the meat of the AZ wagon lol
I assume you already know im gonna shoot who im gonna shoot, but i wanna do some reading maybe listen to others see reactions to impending pew pew etc
Currently on break, so I'm only talking in real time, and I'm not really going to take the time to answer detailed questions, already got yelled at twice today
@cantrip
Can you link me my post where I put Azreal in his own category?
@Chris
You are a self-aware player, we both know you know exactly what you are doing as either alignment, so dropping these, why would I do these things with my partner, doesn't hold much weight to me
Same with the Tom thing, if he does flip wolf, I'll be looking at you
I'd definitely like to give Megiddo some time to catch up and weigh in before any serious discussion of whether he should be considered for the vig shot.
Tom, I had forgotten about Az's attack on Syrenz; thanks for the reminder. I need to look that over again, too.
@cantrip
Those 3 posts depend on the location in the thread tbh
Anything that I said in the past week was literally spit ball analysis based on what I did see, and I also though later on that Azreal's posts were better than they actually were
Also contradicting myself is pretty NAI, I've send at points I don't see why Wolf!Az makes those posts as either alignment towards grape, buts it's way more likely that they aren't w/w from them
Fuwa, haven't heard from you for a bit; Chris's wagon has faltered. Who else do you want to pressure? (Could it be....Azrael?)
Most likely shadow actually. I like Azrael's posts, but others made pretty convincing points against him too... so I'm just gonna observe how his train goes. I don't feel like joining it, nor am I against it.
I absolutely h a t e people unvoting their wolf reads for non read reasons. Has become a new pet peeve of mine. And top posting isn't really a reason past D1 unless it's someone who has a history of hating scum and low posting as scum.
sure, I'll vote Azrael, I still would like to know why he voted me vote: Azreal
and to be fair, Shadow is right, we aren't lynching top-posting Shadow if he is a wolf anyways
@beeboy
yes
cantrip had been there for awhile, but became a wagon in <10 posts
Azrael (4): Cantrip, shadow, KCC, last
Shadow (4): Chris, Azrael, kj, beeboy
tom (3): Rhand, Axel, Vaimes
beeboy (2): dkings, tom
Grape (1): Fuwa
Fuwa (1): Grape
Chris (1): vezok
To be clear, it feels like a buss, but I'd have to read his posts before, probably won't tho, since I still think she is unlikely to be a wolf with Azreal based on her latter pushes
Do not have one. Historically, I tend to be overly suspicious of him, perhaps because of a tendency he has to make overly confidant statements about stuff he has no business being so confident about (perhaps we are seeing a theme here). I'm trying to not let that kind of thing sway me too much at this stage of the proceedings.
scum motivation, but can totally see making this post as town too
<big pile of scumreads>
Honorable mention to Az solely for the reason I feel like he's not looking for/finding enough town. My interpretation of his play is that's kinda how he plays. And I'm not seeing that.
mrgle
Also in here, vezok talks about how bad the shadow wagon is and moves his vote between two people that arent az.
Hes still town though
I use to have this exact problem with Az, but it is possible to read around that. And that isn't what I'm seeing here. Az isn't being overly confident, he's being irrational. That's not townAz
this isnt a nonvoter but this is the towniest post of the wagon
And 5th vote:
Follow up with more thought was just a few later in 883 (but after Vaimes, Vez, and Rhand had weighed in against Az, and Wisp said he believe Az): Axel, are you approaching this from the perspective of "initial" reactions (and thus, DK's 883 carries less impact, especially after more people had weighed in questioning Az's claim)?
Sorry if I'm garcia'ing the conversation, but I think you're both town and I don't want the distraction of a town-town fight right now. Pay attention to MY town-claimed!town fight instead.
I don't know why people think I am egotistical or that me being wrong about Az would effect me in any way. Right, wrong, it happens in mafia. We overcame my misread, lynched scum day 1, and although my read was wrong we gained information which the only cost was to my accuracy rate, which I am perfectly fine getting over.
Also I am fine with my effort today, I have made my reads and am mulling over things. Going max effort all the time just isn't viable for me any more so I have to think on things. If you look at my history me being wrong day 1 is much more in my town meta than my scum meta, as hilarious as that is! I don't like being wrong as scum, I am a total control freak. I certainly wouldn't buck that trend to be the only person defending Az for like 3 straight days.
Speaking of, assume I am town for a moment please Vezok - that would mean literally no scum defended Az for many, many days. What does this mean to you? Does it shake any of your reads?
Ah, I didn't explain the thoughts in my head very well on Wisp. Dk said "this wasn't the scum response I was expecting" but upon reading what Wisp wrote about how he should have paid more attention and not posted in v/la it seemed almost confessional rather than explaining a town thought process. Like "Oh yeah, probably shouldn't have tried to save my buddy there and gotten the facts wrong oops." So when Wisp was going over his process it felt neutral in its defense, not alignment indicating. I believe him when he says he didn't realize Az had stopped pushing as hard, but that mistake can be made as either alignment. I can understand the confusion though, I didn't really put any of this to paper.
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Ok. Say Tom shoots Wisp and he flips town; who do you go after for the lunch? What if Wisp flips scum?
I will ponder on both worlds and get back to you.
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If Wisp is town I have to sincerely go back and read over the game because my PoE suddenly becomes unlikely and narrow. Tom still looks bad but that's the only thing that sticks out to me. Also I'd have to look into low content posters such as beeboy who was a non factor and thus it'd make sense if a lot of people who were interacting at eod were town if someone who wasn't, beeboy, was actually scum.
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Next person to weigh in was LW and he says "I'm not lynching that claim" Also says he doesn't know enough about Magic to decide if it could be a lie or not. So, again, not the best of looks for LW, though he is at least consistent.
Then DK comes back with his expanded 4-point argument for why he doesn't believe the claim (referenced above). Points 1 + 2 are fine as far as they go, I mean, one was mine. 3 + 4 are bad reasons. I'm not exactly docking DK for being correct about Az, but as far as Az voters go, this is still one that I could see coming from a Busser. Perhaps when I go further back in time to where DK voted Az to begin with I'll feel better about it.
Sir Chris chimed in next and after some pondering comes up with "leaning Town." His main issue as far as I can tell is that he does not believe a scum-Az would claim so poorly. Which is one of those WIFOMish, too scummy to be scum arguments.
Vez then dropped his "bomb" counter-claiming Az as a JOAT. Which Sir Chris is very quick to caution that "given what this game seems to be" that doesn't necessarily make Az scum. I am not sure what he meant by that. Just that you think there are a lot of roles/abilities? Even so.
Tom posts and it appears that he reads Vez's counter-claim as a slam dunk against Az. But then says/does nothing else. I'll reiterate that this just does not seem to me like Town behavior.
KCC posts and still thinks Az is scum. Fine.
GF comes back and says he's tired and distracted and has "no real insight on anything." But he doesn't want to lynch a claimed Cop shot and appears willing to let Az live to D3 to give him a chance to use it. He also says that his request for a vig to shoot Az was actually a joke (which, it didn't really look like a joke) because he hates the Tron deck IRL. Obviously not the best of takes. I do dislike the number of people (well, maybe it's only 2-3) who are claiming distractions/busy inability to really think about things.
I give my further take in #905 and say that I think it's more likely Az is scum then town, and for people to consider my vote there. *pats self on back*
Cantrip posts at #506 and basically barned everyone. Which is a bit contradictory, as he's barning the people who have problems with the claim and also Chris who is defending the claim. Actually, looking at the post, the things he is quoting suggest more defense of Az than his ultimate conclusion, which is still "leaning scum." Appears conflicted, which is not an unreasonable place to be. He also wants to know which Karn Az is claiming though, and I will still maintain this is a silly if not completely pointless question.
Sir Chris sort of solidifies his Town-Az read with the "why would he claim like that if he was scum" logic, and votes Cantrip. He's looking at where Cantrip barned him on the reasons to believe Az's claim, but is still voting for Az. Eh.
Cantrip cryptically hints he has another reason to want to lynch Az that he can't reveal atm. Is this still the case? Was this the first time you said something like this? I'm not checking back right now.
Shadow posts and appear to be buying what Sir Chris is selling. Says he's going to start looking for alternative targets though still not thrilled at the idea of leaving Az unmolested for so long.
Chris's next target is Grapefruit. Also asks for someone to unvote Az so the day doesn't end prematurely. Shadow accommodates him. Is this where momentum started to turn?
Tune in next week! Or tomorrow. Or later tonight even. One of those.
294 says Az isn't getting the elaboration from Wisp's prior slot holder.
313 weighs in on his predecessor's read on Vez (in response to Az's question).
455 asks why Az's vote is sitting on Wisp's slot.
523 is where Wisp starts questioning Az, primarily for Az's read on Wisp's previous slot-holder, but then analyzes an Az post and starts off saying it looks good, but ends saying that it's too big-brained for him (Wisp).
548 says Az still has yet to explain why Wisp is a wolf.
566 votes Az because Az hasn't answered his question.
568 says he doesn't think Az will flip a wolf, but has a lot of spew if he does. Says the town read of Grape makes them highly unlikely to be aligned.
602 says he's waiting on Az to blow his mind with an explanation.
621 votes KCC.
626 unvotes KCC after being told how close the Day is to deadline.
632 "back to this, then" votes Az.
643 says that Az really has done nothing townie or wolfy.
682 encourages Beeboy to get on the Az wagon rather than voting Shadow.
744 says he can't understand why Az can't explain why Az is scumreading Wisp's slot.
Then the reversal:
757 is the Az unvote that felt weird to me.
814 was the reads list he gave when I asked for one, with Az in a special unlabeled (but obviously town) category all to himself.
Wisp, can you explain why Az got his own tier there?
819 Wisp explains (in response to DK's question) that he decided to 180 his Az read.
820 he tells Vaimes that he only suspected Az for the mudslinging Az was doing toward Wisp's slot.
823 Wisp says he doesn't think Az has done much of anything wolfy, but it's a pretty noncommital read.
882 says he's not lunching Az's claim.
1217 is the "Az did what he should have done as either alignment; vote Fuwa" post.
Yup, still think Wisp and Chris should be frontrunners for the vig shot.
Wisp, these three posts feel to me like you're contradicting yourself on your read of the Az-Grape relationship; can you explain?
Im home and awake/alive
Be with you in a few
KCC was the one that was on Azreal the most, and like there is always the possibility he was bussing straight from the start for the cred, but that depends on the context of his posts, which I still haven't look, but he's still the most clear atm next to vezok, since I don't humor deep wolfs on day 2
Most day 1 bussers tend to come off really aggressive, and I don't really recall that kind of behavior
The whole Tom coming in for the whole the hammer fake out, reminds of a passed game, where he was a wolf, in which he either love to mention missing the hammer, or would hammer at the last second
Also wolfs tend to hammer wolves it's my go to read, so yes I could humor that
unvote:
I want to look back at Chris's overall progression on Azreal when I get the chance, he might be the power wolf hard defending his buddy
vote: Chris
Still want to give shadow the benefit of the doubt for being the top poster, even though I still believe the posts I pointed out are relatively wolfy
Also the whole knowing his role claim seemed fake feels like TMI, and it's an overall weird interaction now that Azreal flipped red
Axel, I was barning what I thought were good points, and Chris's point about Az messing up a claim was a good one. I maaaaaay have gone a little overboard on the /barns because I was having fun with them, but I still pretty much stand behind them. (And it was 906, not 506. ) And I was pretty late to weigh in on the claim, so I wasn't going to fabricate reasons one way or another; most my concerns had been vocalized, and I hadn't decided if I wanted to voice that I had a "secret" reason (either as I did or spelling it out). Yes, I still have my secret reason; no, I don't want to reveal it yet; yes, I believe that was the first time I had mentioned it.
I'll get to those kinda questions when I get home from work
Wisp, and those quotes I highlighted about the Az-Grape relationship?
I am not a man who tries to catch the bad, obvious scum. Two games in a row it has been proven I don't need my eyes set there, other people got that covered!
Also I wonder how people justify me saying that to Az as scum/scum, Wisp. Why is that scummy? What would possess me to defend my scum buddy with "I know you haven't said everything" it is just... I am legitimately confused what I am being accused of half the time.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I can't believe I missed this. The scum have multiple JoaTs
Do me a favor: pretend that I was the one who asked Az that question and that Az's 990 was directed at me. Break that response down. Especially knowing that Az is scum, what is scum!Az doing with that response?
TMI there dictates that I vote him for it. TMI is making correct assumptions with scum knowledge. So if Beeboy is town me hopping on him being town early is at least a valid TMI thought because it is a possibility. Me saying something while defending a scum and calling it TMI just makes no sense.
Also I would read basically no one as scum for what I said there because I don't think scum use that as a tact to defend their heavily suspected buddy.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I have 1 active and 2 passives
And even if I was a joat, my first reaction wouldn't have been to CC him anways
What on earth does macro play mean in this context?
So wisp flipping out like that is not a good look to me. He's an emotional guy in general and have seen him lose his cool before several times. But it's almost always been scornful and pointed at someone he thinks is being stupid. This is not that. Combined with all the typically nonsense reads that smells like scum.
@Axel my vig comment was a joke and self referential to my RVS. It's quite possible it didn't read as a joke as I'm horrendously unfunny.
@Chris when did you stop scum reading me? Aren't you still voting me?
Not voting now because I have no clue what the VC is. Would put 1 on Wisp and 1 on Chris.
Cantrip/vezok/kcc easy towncore.
Cantrip ive been over
Vezok for the way hes given out his role info, especially in light of az flip
KCC i was mostly there on, like, conviction/engagement or whatever but is also just not scum with az
Still think his process on cantrip was off, and popin posts around az lynch were soaked in scum motivation
But almost definitely gonna give megs some time tbh
Grooooooooss
Relax, I wasn't attacking you, I'm trying to understand the claim reactions
Neither seems great to me though.
Ive literally never seen scumchris do anything prowolf hes too worried about looking town and being right
Az push on syrenz was really absolute and just ignoring the replacement seems like a scum excuse to just ignore lasts posts and push the slot
Not exactly townreading either but
Eh
You are literally so fake, the only reason you get the benefit of the doubt is because of Azreal
And honestly if you think I am wolf, then just vote me, you aren't going to catch me tonally
Why is that post gross?
Point out my non-sense reads, please and thanks
Not voting right now because I don't know what the VC is at? Kek
You and Azreal both seemed to love shading me, and azreal's read on me in particular was so reachy
Like every part of me wanted to open the day with the shot and see what happens
But im being responsible.
I never did catch up yesterday and the 5 or so pages im missing are the meat of the AZ wagon lol
I assume you already know im gonna shoot who im gonna shoot, but i wanna do some reading maybe listen to others see reactions to impending pew pew etc
@cantrip
Can you link me my post where I put Azreal in his own category?
You are a self-aware player, we both know you know exactly what you are doing as either alignment, so dropping these, why would I do these things with my partner, doesn't hold much weight to me
Same with the Tom thing, if he does flip wolf, I'll be looking at you
Tom, I had forgotten about Az's attack on Syrenz; thanks for the reminder. I need to look that over again, too.
Those 3 posts depend on the location in the thread tbh
Anything that I said in the past week was literally spit ball analysis based on what I did see, and I also though later on that Azreal's posts were better than they actually were
Also contradicting myself is pretty NAI, I've send at points I don't see why Wolf!Az makes those posts as either alignment towards grape, buts it's way more likely that they aren't w/w from them
Lot of layers here
Azrael(4): Cantrip, shadow, KCC, lastShadow (4): Chris,
Azrael, kj, beeboytom (3):
Rhand, Axel, Vaimesbeeboy (2): dkings, tom
Grape (1): Fuwa
Fuwa (1): Grape
Chris (1): vezok
Was that ever explained or questioned?
To be clear, it feels like a buss, but I'd have to read his posts before, probably won't tho, since I still think she is unlikely to be a wolf with Azreal based on her latter pushes
Extensively questioned.
scum motivation, but can totally see making this post as town too
i like the defiance of this line, but it is noteworthy it comes right after az wagon appeared mrgle
Also in here, vezok talks about how bad the shadow wagon is and moves his vote between two people that arent az.
Hes still town though
this isnt a nonvoter but this is the towniest post of the wagon
And 5th vote:
reasonably good look
Also in this chunk, chris says a great deal of words and none of them are about az.
I think this is "sad i have to kill him", which i doubt a buddy expresses
Am i right?