@azreal
speaking of which, is there something you want from me? why exactly is your vote still sitting on me? make a case or kindly go else where
I cant be expected to evaluate what my past slot holder did or said, without it just being my own biased assumption
I haven't actually read anything, skimmed and saw that Chris did something that involves inside info on beeboy or whatever. No read on him since he's been too busy to make a lot of noise, so I support the pressure.
Don't have a beeboy read, I'm straight sheeping LW until I feel like doing work.
I prefer to vote Tom right now.
I'll give Sir Chris a chance to do something new before I'd be willing to vote me.
Not saying Sir Chris is town for defending me because he wasn't even the first person to do it but might as well give people a chance to breathe first.
"Man, you HAVE to have inside information to understand this. You are scum!"
I got that a few times back in the day. Glad people are off his back though.
The last time I was lynched period during a day I got to post as town was a day 1, actually. On GameFAQs. It was August 2011, Final Fantasy VII mafia. I was very pissed.
Good, I like this movement. It is interesting. Probably genuine? Wisp not realizing I just spent an entire game with him, Shadow being Shadow, and two people clearly not understanding how I like to aggressively defend people.
Yeah, not my fault you guys didn't see what I saw when I called him guileless. Glad you do now though.
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I am still standing by my Grapefruit read btw. He feels tonally different here compared to both of the games I have recently played with him. Something is just off. More people should vote him it'll be great.
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The whole asking me for reads doesn't count as trying to find the town in me given how open and empty that is as a question.
I don't know if this was addressed to me or not, but since I indicated I was asking for this, I'll note that I wasn't asking you to try and figure out if you were town. That part is now. Asking for your reads--specifically before applying pressure--was to try and get some spew from you if you flipped scum.
@Cantrip.it took a long time for anyone to ask why I thought the game was role madness
So you DID expect someone to respond to your comment. I just...can't see how that's a town mindset. I was thinking that if you came back and said "It took a while for anyone to vocally speculate that this could be role madness" I would have felt better, but if you were expecting someone to ask you, then it feels like you made that comment at least in part with that dangly bait feeling, which I would NEVER do as town. I know, because I had that conversation with myself when I pondered it out loud to Proph in PM. "Should I highlight that I think this is a role madness game? What good comes from that?" And every way I could see it going was pear-shaped/resulted in info in the thread that was better left blank, especially if I were wrong. So why did you expect someone to question it?
People who are townreading both tom and Chris: now is the time to speak up.
I'm townreading Tom, but probably for a bad reason. But I'm not ready to give that read up. I'm not opposed to a Chris wagon, but holy smokes, this game likes really fast half wagons.
No, I'm not convinced on Beeboy. And if he doesn't have some pressure, I'm afraid he'll disappear again.
Vote Beeboy
Azrael, I still want an answer, please, when you return.
Because I had a read and I saw a guileless player I have a town read on kind of bumble. Sometimes you gotta do some defending of your reads.
Also you don't have to vote beeboy, just ask him to be more active.
Beeboy, be more active please.
Is that so hard?
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I am still standing by my Grapefruit read btw. He feels tonally different here compared to both of the games I have recently played with him. Something is just off. More people should vote him it'll be great.
hmm you peeked my interest, can you explain this in more detail?
Because I had a read and I saw a guileless player I have a town read on kind of bumble. Sometimes you gotta do some defending of your reads.
Also you don't have to vote beeboy, just ask him to be more active.
Beeboy, be more active please.
Is that so hard?
...I know that I was wrong on you last game, and I have no idea if I tilted you so badly that it's carrying over to this game, but there's no reason to talk down to me.
im getting the same vibes from him this game that was apparent in his wolf game on my site, his conclusions seem to have a lack of empathy and understanding
coupled with his earlier post which I can find, that felt manipulative
@Cantrip.it took a long time for anyone to ask why I thought the game was role madness
So you DID expect someone to respond to your comment. I just...can't see how that's a town mindset. I was thinking that if you came back and said "It took a while for anyone to vocally speculate that this could be role madness" I would have felt better, but if you were expecting someone to ask you, then it feels like you made that comment at least in part with that dangly bait feeling, which I would NEVER do as town. I know, because I had that conversation with myself when I pondered it out loud to Proph in PM. "Should I highlight that I think this is a role madness game? What good comes from that?" And every way I could see it going was pear-shaped/resulted in info in the thread that was better left blank, especially if I were wrong. So why did you expect someone to question it?
This argument is silly putty.
You are really splitting hairs between a response of "it took a long time for anyone to ask why I thought the game was role madness," and a hypothetical response of "It took a while for anyone to vocally speculate that this could be role madness," and arguing the latter would have made you feel better? Really?
I also think it's a total mis-read of his response anyway.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Because I had a read and I saw a guileless player I have a town read on kind of bumble. Sometimes you gotta do some defending of your reads.
Also you don't have to vote beeboy, just ask him to be more active.
Beeboy, be more active please.
Is that so hard?
...I know that I was wrong on you last game, and I have no idea if I tilted you so badly that it's carrying over to this game, but there's no reason to talk down to me.
I am determined to not be irritated by Chris this game as I think I've responded poorly to him in the past. But you have to know this is how he talks, yes?
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I am determined to not be irritated by Chris this game as I think I've responded poorly to him in the past. But you have to know this is how he talks, yes?
I am still standing by my Grapefruit read btw. He feels tonally different here compared to both of the games I have recently played with him. Something is just off. More people should vote him it'll be great.
Honestly, this is just normal grapefruit.
Also regarding cantrip, he doesn't seem scum here. It's far too early to tell, but I'm not really seeing manipulative Cantrip here.
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Also I wasn't trying to talk down, but your vote on beeboy just wasn't needed tbh. Instead of applying the screws sometimes asking things from players will get them to cooperate.
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Cantrip probably can't be read on a micro level but I am stubborn, I'll probably do a full analysis of his posts at some point as well as the rest people I haven't had a reason to talk about
My Cantrip read is hard to put into words.
scum!Cantrip would be blasting us with walls by now just to show his engagement.
town!Cantrip makes walls too, but only with a purpose.
@Cantrip: do you think that string of posts of Beeboy was fake?
Especially the part where he doubts his read on me. Does that look fabricated?
...I don't know that I understand your perspective on this.
374 Beeboy says you're town, even though you're voting him, correct?
413 He says your take is rubbing him wrong and making him question his read, meaning he's pondering if you're scum.
426 You quoted 411 (before he questions his read on you), and declare him town. I feel like 411 could certainly be faked.
So...maybe I'm missing something. What post(s) are you specifically referring to? Why does him maybe changing his read on you from town to scum for suspecting him along these lines mean he's town to you?
Beeboy, KJ asked why your town read on Wisp is so strong; can you respond to that, please?
Axel, there's a HUGE difference between the two questions, imo. *I've* been thinking "I wonder how long it will take for someone to openly wonder if this is a role madness game" ever since I read my role. If he had said that was what he was waiting for, it would have been mindmeld. But thinking "I'm expecting someone to say something about that role madness comment I made" either means that he posted it with that intent (to get responses), or he posted it not really thinking about the impact.
As for Chris, just because that's what I've observed doesn't mean I have to like it when it's aimed at me.
Vaimes, my scumgame looks like my towngame, not the other way around. Recently only Tom has reliably shown that he can read me. Wisp correctly identified me in Phantom (initially, but then I only got lunched for PoE), but I was pretty low impact that game and able to hide behind a lack of early game contribution.
As for my Tom townread, my initial reason for not being specific is pretty much invalidated if this is a role madness game: I thought he was playing badly because he had a power role (as here). Now I'm leaning town for the same basic reason, except that now it's because I think he didn't suspect it was a role madness game (and was playing badly to cover it).
And: fair, on Beeboy's activity. I was just frustrated initially because I wanted him to respond so I could poke at his role madness comment.
Chris, fair enough on just asking. It *did* feel like you were talking down to me, though. I think I'll leave my vote on him, though. Don't really feel like voting you or Tom, and voting Az probably isn't going to make him respond any sooner, so.
Beeboy, KJ asked why your town read on Wisp is so strong; can you respond to that, please?
Ok so I don't expect anyone to sheep me on this but honestly I am just tone reading Wisp right now and honestly if I had to bet the game on my current read I wouldn't. So if I die right now I don't want anyone to think I have some enlightened read on Wisp that is worth sheeping. He could be engaging with me more but that hurts my heart more then its alignment indicative.
But I am very confident in my ability to have a good macro read on Wisp, so it's more as long as I am alive I want to give him the freedom to play freely in order to get that read faster. Watching him get frustrated and pushed down will make it easier for him to hide and defend himself as scum while making him less transparent as scum.
So like I know this is a weird answer but I am pretty content calling him town and am happy with what I am doing. And if Wisp does start wolfing arbitrary macro read timers won't apply, but I do like his tone and I do have a plan so exaggerating my read is something I am fine doing.
and two people clearly not understanding how I like to aggressively defend people.
I basically wrote the text book on aggressive defense, that isn't my issue here. The problem is you doing it in the slightly illogical way that I've done as scum trying to mimic my town play, where it feels less like you sharing your genuine reasons for strongly believing him town, and more like you know he's town and are making up reasons so you can be right.
I haven't seen an explanation for why you think he's so bumbling that he'd basically claim power as town, but so skilled he couldn't have possibly made a slight slip up as scum?
Beeboy, KJ asked why your town read on Wisp is so strong; can you respond to that, please?
Ok so I don't expect anyone to sheep me on this but honestly I am just tone reading Wisp right now and honestly if I had to bet the game on my current read I wouldn't. So if I die right now I don't want anyone to think I have some enlightened read on Wisp that is worth sheeping. He could be engaging with me more but that hurts my heart more then its alignment indicative.
But I am very confident in my ability to have a good macro read on Wisp, so it's more as long as I am alive I want to give him the freedom to play freely in order to get that read faster. Watching him get frustrated and pushed down will make it easier for him to hide and defend himself as scum while making him less transparent as scum.
So like I know this is a weird answer but I am pretty content calling him town and am happy with what I am doing. And if Wisp does start wolfing arbitrary macro read timers won't apply, but I do like his tone and I do have a plan so exaggerating my read is something I am fine doing.
This is actually a pretty townie post. Starts off questionable, but that second paragraph almost only comes from town, I think, barring you specifically being scum with Wisp. Which could be, but if it is, you're powerwolfing in weird, suboptimal ways that I wouldn't expect from someone with experience.
and two people clearly not understanding how I like to aggressively defend people.
I basically wrote the text book on aggressive defense, that isn't my issue here. The problem is you doing it in the slightly illogical way that I've done as scum trying to mimic my town play, where it feels less like you sharing your genuine reasons for strongly believing him town, and more like you know he's town and are making up reasons so you can be right.
I haven't seen an explanation for why you think he's so bumbling that he'd basically claim power as town, but so skilled he couldn't have possibly made a slight slip up as scum?
Did I say he was bumbling?
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Recently only Tom has reliably shown that he can read me.
*Scoffs*
I’m pretty sure I’ve correctly read you in everything but twilight of secret agent Mafia.
Harrumph.
Oh, now that you’ve unvoted, join the Chris wagon. His Beeboy defense is garbage, regardless of BeeBoy’s alignment (and probably means Beeboy is town if Chris is scum). KCC has the right of it, and that subsequently makes me like her a bit.
Everything about that post is wrong. First off you hand Beeboy the epic 'probably town if chris is scum' knowing I will flip town. Then you follow up with "KCC has the right of it" so when it turns out she has the wrong of it you can turn on her next.
My Beeboy defense was a genuine read and I am glad people are peeling off the lynch, but this post is what is garbage tbh.
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Not to say that I think exactly opposite and than those posts have to come from scum, they just don’t move the dial for me.
(Also, it is totally feasible that Beeboy inferred Role madness from his whole team being PRs and then walked it back in any way he could, but there’s no way to know that, but it would be mildly hilarious)
BTW
He went from placating me with "I don't think the exact opposite it just doesn't move the dial for me."
to, and I quote:
"garbage"
Oh I am going to look forward to this explanation.
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I...am utterly unconvinced. The first one he says prerand, and while yes, it does mean he’s not Vanilla, the fact that no one has corrected him makes me think he’s right, everyone probably has something.
The second one is pretty standard fair. I’ve been too lazy as both alignments before.
So tell me, why was Beeboy town at that juncture. Where are you really inferring that from. Break down some actual behavior and show me your thought process. (FYI: this is 100% about you, not him( don’t mistake my purpose.)
Also, get your vote off of me, go put it somewhere useful and think about what you’ve done. I want you to catch scum, don’t even care what your alignment is for that, so go do that.
@Cantrip: his sway from town to maybe not town on me is all natural. He sees me pushing an angle that he doesn’t think is an angle worth pushing and mistrusts me for it.
Anyways, I see you got there too.
Mm, I'll pass. I think I like my vote exactly where it is.
As for the two highlighted posts, prerand or not since he is posting that in topic it means his role did not disabuse him of the notion that his prerand thoughts were right. It is a needless, silly thing to spurt out even if you think it is true. Scum lie, deceive, have motives. Towns just...sometimes stay stupid stuff that looks weird.
As for the second post, scum very often are cautious of looking bad. Going "meh I am lazy" from someone who is not SUPREMELY confident in their skills as a player as scum is... very rare. Possible in theory, but I didn't think so here.
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Not to say that I think exactly opposite and than those posts have to come from scum, they just don’t move the dial for me.
(Also, it is totally feasible that Beeboy inferred Role madness from his whole team being PRs and then walked it back in any way he could, but there’s no way to know that, but it would be mildly hilarious)
BTW
He went from placating me with "I don't think the exact opposite it just doesn't move the dial for me."
to, and I quote:
"garbage"
Oh I am going to look forward to this explanation.
Really? You called those posts AI, I said they are the opposite of AI (and were not part of my read on him). That’s pretty well the opposite of what you said. Calling posts that could come from either alignment specifically townie is a garbage defense. If you’re town and believe it, then great, it’s still a bad justification for the read.
Vote Count 1.16
Sir Chris (4): KittyCupCake, vezokpiraka, shadowlancerx, Lastwhisper
tomsloger (2): Rhand, Axelrod
beeboy (2): dkingsland967, tomsloger
Grapefruit21 (2): Sir Chris, Fuwa
Cantripmancer (1): Vaimes
shadowlancerx (1): beeboy
Lastwhisper (1): Azrael
Azrael (1): Cantripmancer
Fuwa (1): Grapefruit21
Abstain (1): Killjoy
With 16 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch.
Day 1 will end on Friday, August 16th, at 11:59 PM.
Unvote, vote tom
tom/Chris wagons are perfect.
speaking of which, is there something you want from me? why exactly is your vote still sitting on me? make a case or kindly go else where
I cant be expected to evaluate what my past slot holder did or said, without it just being my own biased assumption
Don't have a beeboy read, I'm straight sheeping LW until I feel like doing work.
Eh.
Nah, I want competing wagons.
It's time for competing wagons.
I'll give Sir Chris a chance to do something new before I'd be willing to vote me.
Not saying Sir Chris is town for defending me because he wasn't even the first person to do it but might as well give people a chance to breathe first.
"Man, you HAVE to have inside information to understand this. You are scum!"
I got that a few times back in the day. Glad people are off his back though.
The last time I was lynched period during a day I got to post as town was a day 1, actually. On GameFAQs. It was August 2011, Final Fantasy VII mafia. I was very pissed.
Good, I like this movement. It is interesting. Probably genuine? Wisp not realizing I just spent an entire game with him, Shadow being Shadow, and two people clearly not understanding how I like to aggressively defend people.
Yeah, not my fault you guys didn't see what I saw when I called him guileless. Glad you do now though.
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So you DID expect someone to respond to your comment. I just...can't see how that's a town mindset. I was thinking that if you came back and said "It took a while for anyone to vocally speculate that this could be role madness" I would have felt better, but if you were expecting someone to ask you, then it feels like you made that comment at least in part with that dangly bait feeling, which I would NEVER do as town. I know, because I had that conversation with myself when I pondered it out loud to Proph in PM. "Should I highlight that I think this is a role madness game? What good comes from that?" And every way I could see it going was pear-shaped/resulted in info in the thread that was better left blank, especially if I were wrong. So why did you expect someone to question it?
Why pre-empt Beeboy's response here/Why did you think KCC was asking you a question? Also, that's an awful overgeneralization.
I'm townreading Tom, but probably for a bad reason. But I'm not ready to give that read up. I'm not opposed to a Chris wagon, but holy smokes, this game likes really fast half wagons.
No, I'm not convinced on Beeboy. And if he doesn't have some pressure, I'm afraid he'll disappear again.
Vote Beeboy
Azrael, I still want an answer, please, when you return.
Also you don't have to vote beeboy, just ask him to be more active.
Beeboy, be more active please.
Is that so hard?
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I’m 99% sure this is town!Cantrip.
Why the vote?
Especially the part where he doubts his read on me. Does that look fabricated?
coupled with his earlier post which I can find, that felt manipulative
not a fan of his vote on beeboy either
You are really splitting hairs between a response of "it took a long time for anyone to ask why I thought the game was role madness," and a hypothetical response of "It took a while for anyone to vocally speculate that this could be role madness," and arguing the latter would have made you feel better? Really?
I also think it's a total mis-read of his response anyway.
I'll stay active just for you and wisp.
Or point to a page number if you've already explained.
I've only experienced scumtrip once and it kinda hit me outta nowhere.
buddies buddies buddiesHumor me. Why is tom town?
Honestly, this is just normal grapefruit.
Also regarding cantrip, he doesn't seem scum here. It's far too early to tell, but I'm not really seeing manipulative Cantrip here.
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@rhand
Why do you think Cantrip is town?
Also I wasn't trying to talk down, but your vote on beeboy just wasn't needed tbh. Instead of applying the screws sometimes asking things from players will get them to cooperate.
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scum!Cantrip would be blasting us with walls by now just to show his engagement.
town!Cantrip makes walls too, but only with a purpose.
...I don't know that I understand your perspective on this.
374 Beeboy says you're town, even though you're voting him, correct?
413 He says your take is rubbing him wrong and making him question his read, meaning he's pondering if you're scum.
426 You quoted 411 (before he questions his read on you), and declare him town. I feel like 411 could certainly be faked.
So...maybe I'm missing something. What post(s) are you specifically referring to? Why does him maybe changing his read on you from town to scum for suspecting him along these lines mean he's town to you?
Beeboy, KJ asked why your town read on Wisp is so strong; can you respond to that, please?
Axel, there's a HUGE difference between the two questions, imo. *I've* been thinking "I wonder how long it will take for someone to openly wonder if this is a role madness game" ever since I read my role. If he had said that was what he was waiting for, it would have been mindmeld. But thinking "I'm expecting someone to say something about that role madness comment I made" either means that he posted it with that intent (to get responses), or he posted it not really thinking about the impact.
As for Chris, just because that's what I've observed doesn't mean I have to like it when it's aimed at me.
Vaimes, my scumgame looks like my towngame, not the other way around. Recently only Tom has reliably shown that he can read me. Wisp correctly identified me in Phantom (initially, but then I only got lunched for PoE), but I was pretty low impact that game and able to hide behind a lack of early game contribution.
As for my Tom townread, my initial reason for not being specific is pretty much invalidated if this is a role madness game: I thought he was playing badly because he had a power role (as here). Now I'm leaning town for the same basic reason, except that now it's because I think he didn't suspect it was a role madness game (and was playing badly to cover it).
And: fair, on Beeboy's activity. I was just frustrated initially because I wanted him to respond so I could poke at his role madness comment.
Chris, fair enough on just asking. It *did* feel like you were talking down to me, though. I think I'll leave my vote on him, though. Don't really feel like voting you or Tom, and voting Az probably isn't going to make him respond any sooner, so.
Ok so I don't expect anyone to sheep me on this but honestly I am just tone reading Wisp right now and honestly if I had to bet the game on my current read I wouldn't. So if I die right now I don't want anyone to think I have some enlightened read on Wisp that is worth sheeping. He could be engaging with me more but that hurts my heart more then its alignment indicative.
But I am very confident in my ability to have a good macro read on Wisp, so it's more as long as I am alive I want to give him the freedom to play freely in order to get that read faster. Watching him get frustrated and pushed down will make it easier for him to hide and defend himself as scum while making him less transparent as scum.
So like I know this is a weird answer but I am pretty content calling him town and am happy with what I am doing. And if Wisp does start wolfing arbitrary macro read timers won't apply, but I do like his tone and I do have a plan so exaggerating my read is something I am fine doing.
I basically wrote the text book on aggressive defense, that isn't my issue here. The problem is you doing it in the slightly illogical way that I've done as scum trying to mimic my town play, where it feels less like you sharing your genuine reasons for strongly believing him town, and more like you know he's town and are making up reasons so you can be right.
I haven't seen an explanation for why you think he's so bumbling that he'd basically claim power as town, but so skilled he couldn't have possibly made a slight slip up as scum?
Unvote
Did I say he was bumbling?
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I’m pretty sure I’ve correctly read you in everything but twilight of secret agent Mafia.
Harrumph.
Oh, now that you’ve unvoted, join the Chris wagon. His Beeboy defense is garbage, regardless of BeeBoy’s alignment (and probably means Beeboy is town if Chris is scum). KCC has the right of it, and that subsequently makes me like her a bit.
I told you that you only get one, Shadow.
Everything about that post is wrong. First off you hand Beeboy the epic 'probably town if chris is scum' knowing I will flip town. Then you follow up with "KCC has the right of it" so when it turns out she has the wrong of it you can turn on her next.
My Beeboy defense was a genuine read and I am glad people are peeling off the lynch, but this post is what is garbage tbh.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
BTW
He went from placating me with "I don't think the exact opposite it just doesn't move the dial for me."
to, and I quote:
"garbage"
Oh I am going to look forward to this explanation.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Also, get your vote off of me, go put it somewhere useful and think about what you’ve done. I want you to catch scum, don’t even care what your alignment is for that, so go do that.
Anyways, I see you got there too.
As for the two highlighted posts, prerand or not since he is posting that in topic it means his role did not disabuse him of the notion that his prerand thoughts were right. It is a needless, silly thing to spurt out even if you think it is true. Scum lie, deceive, have motives. Towns just...sometimes stay stupid stuff that looks weird.
As for the second post, scum very often are cautious of looking bad. Going "meh I am lazy" from someone who is not SUPREMELY confident in their skills as a player as scum is... very rare. Possible in theory, but I didn't think so here.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player