MTG Salvation

Err... it is not. Sorry about that

^ Answering shadow #198
Forgot to quote

@WillYeah no worries if English isn't your first language, your posts make plenty of sense.

Hmm.

I do think Will's response to my question reads very self-consciously, like he's just saying what he thinks he's supposed to say or something. No idea how much to read into that though especially given his opening was very self-effacing so maybe he's just a very self-aware person in general.

Mrgle.

Quote from Silvercrys3467 »

@WillYeah no worries if English isn't your first language, your posts make plenty of sense.

Hmm.

I do think Will's response to my question reads very self-consciously, like he's just saying what he thinks he's supposed to say or something. No idea how much to read into that though especially given his opening was very self-effacing so maybe he's just a very self-aware person in general.

Mrgle.

It's really hard to read into that sort of self awareness for new players. Could be uncomfortableness with needing to lie and hide but just as easily it's the natural awkwardness of joining a new group in an activity you're unfamiliar with. I don't think I'll be able to solve him off tone.

@Will echo'ing that your english is more than passable. Don't stress about it. What would you say is the most important post so far in terms of alignment? I want you to try to press something you believe in.

I think grapefruit is whispering sweet nothings but he doesn't mean them.

Like, idk if its true or not, but grape does believe I'm easier to read under... heavy restriction.

When I do something like flavor text or a spider, I have no room for my standard tom levels of obfuscation as I'm just trying to get my point across.
And grapes stance if this was something like that makes a lot of sense.
But it isn't.

How I'm playing this game is merely additive, just an added bit of fun. I am... completely unfettered

I strongly believe he just wants to love and leave me.


Lngrr+grape+??

If I wanted to do that I wouldn't have pushed back on Shin's claim I had a town read on you. I don't. I just think I'll be able to read you. Also your take requires me to know your internal rules for this level of persona. Which unless I missed a post where you set some public ground rules is something I can't know. Judging based on the thread to when I made my claim you were pretty far in character and have come a bit out of it since that stage.

But you are correct that my stance is to sit back and watch you go to work for a bit rather than sorting you now.

So I was gonna do a rainbow list but it just kind of looks like my "not lunching today" list:

silvercrys
tom, chris, grape, cantrip, shin
will, tubba, shadow, lngrrr, rhand
rumanshi

Not much sorting going on within those tiers either, so.

Rumanshi's last post was two days ago, maybe someone who has played with him a lot wants to talk to me about him since he's frozen?

@Shin maybe? Do you have a Ruma read?

Since he isn't here though my vote on him's sort of pointless. Hrm.

Vote: Rhand

I'll be here lurking for an hour or so, maybe, if someone wants to dance. After that I'll be V/LA until Saturday.

Don't do anything I wouldn't do on roller skates while I'm gone, mmkay?

Did I catch you, you silver fox?

Why not vote lngrr?

I like tom even more now. Went from 'lol' to 'srs' quick good job, Tom.

You caught me when I checked the thread on my phone before bed lol. I can stay up for a little while maybe, supposed to be getting up in like six hours though.

There are a few reasons for voting Rhand over LnGrrr: the Chris vs Rhand thing feels more interesting/important than whatever LnGrrr is doing (to be frank, I know he's posted a bit but I can't remember anything he's said so far).

Also the wagons are tied up this way, though 2/2 wagons probably don't tell us tooo much I feel like having Rhand/LnGrrr wagons at 2 are better than just a single LnGrrr one at 3.

All the hustle and bustle of the past couple hours has calmed a bit. The guests aren't quite as vigorous about trying to find the murderer as they used to be. Things have calmed down... until the telltale gong of the grandfather clock.

Votecount 1.3

Rhand (2) - Sir Chris (#111), Silvercrys3467 (#209)
LnGrrrR (1) - tomsloger (#144)
tomsloger (1) - LnGrrrR (#153)
Cantripmancer (1) - Will-98 (#38)
Shadowlancerx (1) - Rhand (#123)
Sir Chris (1) - shadowlancerx (#214)

Not Voting: Cantripmancer, Grapefruit21, Rumanshi, Tubba Fett

Shadow is town.
unvote

Quote from Sir Chris »

Rhand the town you I remember, many moons ago, was full of townie zeal and I don't know I just get the real sense you aren't being genuine so time to poke you for awhile and see if you break against me.

There's something wrong with your poking stick. You keep saying you’re using it to poke me, but I don’t feel anything. There’s no content to your pushes.

Quote from Grapefruit21 »

@Rhand you're right I didn't use that specific language. Dunno why I thought I did. Anyway my point was the general point that I was speaking vaguely but did not mean to leave any doubt about my laziness being AI. Even if I did why would my being unsure of my meta be scum indicative?

I’m gonna drop this for now because I think what’s happening is me bumping into a language barrier with you here.

Quote from Sir Chris »

That's kind of vague. I like silver for thoughtfulness. Already said lng wasnt great for trying to use my pomp against me.

Not a fan of Shin but I was told to expect this.

I like Tom. He makes me smile.

Shin is in a very different world than the game we just finished, where you were both scum.
Being “not a fan of Shin” and being “told to expect this” feels totally fake.

vote Sir Chris

I'm fine with dropping the question of what I meant vs what I said but I want to know why you thought my being unsure of my own meta was a scum indicator. I don't get why that was a red flag for you.

Anyway Tom is ignoring my jumbled poke back as expected. Don't think his lack of hustle there means anything. Ditto for largely dropping the roleplay.

If you don't drop anything, you can't show off your assets picking it up very slowly.

Sorry.
And I've come back even more confused then when i left. ;-;

Quote from shadowlancerx »

Quote from Sir Chris »

That's kind of vague. I like silver for thoughtfulness. Already said lng wasnt great for trying to use my pomp against me.

Not a fan of Shin but I was told to expect this.

I like Tom. He makes me smile.

How would you compare shin to last game where you were scum together?

Do you like Tom for Tom or something alignment indicative?

*Yawns* good morning, foul voter of me.

Despite Rhand's epic comment about Shin being totally different, I see the same rambling walls of posts that I saw as his buddy last game. Now granted I stopped reading them after awhile so maybe I missed some nuance but while trying to bus shin last game a lot of people were telling me that shin is just always doing shin things and I read his posts like "yup" which I guess offends Rhand over there.

Rhand/Shin probably not mafia together based off that though.

And like in an alignment sort of thing for Tom.

@Rhand

You sound pretty confident in that Shadow read, could you explain?

@Silver: Shadow is usually town when I mindmeld with him, and I saw him catch Chris on his Shin view.

@Everyone: See how Chris is fake? He announced he wanted to poke me and now he doesn’t even react to me anymore.

Hm. I am afraid this is rather tragic for you shadow in that there has been no catch. My shin view was for one too surface level to read into much less glean alignment. My read was "oh God walls of stuff" more or less.

But shadow/rhand combo would not be caught dead making this play so that another aligned pair out the window.

Hm hm hm. Oh believe you me Rhand I am poking you just the way I want to. You are totes poked right now.

Rhand. My friend, what is the deal on Ruma. they appear quite overwhelmed. Are they a low quality poster?

Oh but please, I always welcome votes. Give me information mafia friends

Chris my love, why don't I know anything about your thoughts except the conclusions?

Show your work babe

Purposefully aiming for something. Intentional I promise.

Well I'll be waiting with bated breath

But I gotta say I feel like rhand oiled up quite nicely and you're leaving me unsatisfied

@Chris: Riku has 7 posts with almost no content.
Why do you think I have a read on him?

I was asking for general thoughts.

I've been playing Mafia on other sites (shame on me) and I'm "learning" that I know nothing about this game (I knew that before, but it still stings when it's thrown in my face). So my snark level is like 11 right now, and I'm not sure I trust myself to post much here, although I have another tinfoil about Tom that his role is a black widow type and he loved the opportunity to make spider noises appropriately. NAI, probably.

I agree that Chris seems to be in full-on pocket mode, with a side of disdainful dismissal, which is pretty reminiscent of GoT.

Sure.

Vote: Sir Chris

Hmm... yes good enough.

##unvote: Rhand
##vote: Cantripmancer

So pet theory I was kicking around while I was re-reading the topic at work earlier is that Rhand after I poked him responded how I'd want a town Rhand to respond. He poked me back and then when I was dismissive he pointed and went "get him guys! Get him with all of the fire!" which is a much better response than scum Rhand typically gives me so he's fine.

Then I thought about Shadow and I liked how he voted me for being ignored (a great reason to vote me by the way I approve of that) and so based off his posts I have been leaning town.

So if those first two are true that means two town members are voting me which is typically when cowardly scum (played by Cantripmancer today) feel emboldened to go for pressure move and exert themselves over the player in question.

I was looking into Lng and earlie and his question to Cantripmancer seemed to me to be a bit more softball and have little probing value compared to some other questions he set forth so this also fits into my world that Lng could possibly be scum.

So funnily enough I didn't actually like Tom for alignment reasons when he was roleplaying but by the time I saw the question my opinion had changed since Tom decided to drop the RP fun to be more serious without any real pressure to do so, which is typically a hallmark of 'having fun but hey I have real thoughts' versus 'Having fun how long can I milk this for' so day 1 check Tom is AOK for now.

Interestingly as well, if Cantripmancer here is scum then Shin looks great because Shin asked, to me, very genuine questions and held thoughtful observations about his early posts that mirror my own so we shall see how that develops.

Okay you guys can discuss among the class now.

Also while I myself am naturally leaning this way teams of Rhand/Cantripmancer and Shadow/Cantripmancer are quite unlikely, so if he is scum I'd say it is fiarly likely we've gotten 3 people who are very solidly town.

Not impressed yet, big boy

Ok, well I've got a show to do so you guys can do what you will! Did my best.

Personally though I thought that was neat. I was like waiting patiently like a person on an African wild game hunt for my prey to wander onto me. My form, prone and inviting...UNTIL I STRUCK LIKE A VIPER.

But I guess that type of patient wait and see isn't enough to please Ms. Tom, what an awful thing.

Heh that does explain the first level play Chris was showing. That kept me confused.
@tom: any other reason you can think of for Chris doing that other than what he just explained?

unvote

@Cantrip: Explain how Chris was in pocket-mode please?

Sorry for the triple post.

@Chris / Shadow: what do you think of Silver’s vote on me?

weird. when i try to iso cantrip, he doesn’t show up in the list of posters

Quote from Sir Chris »

Personally though I thought that was neat. I was like waiting patiently like a person on an African wild game hunt for my prey to wander onto me. My form, prone and inviting...UNTIL I STRUCK LIKE A VIPER.

Oh please. You think you can post 224 and then this:

Quote from Sir Chris »

Purposefully aiming for something. Intentional I promise.

And then accuse me of a cowardly vote? I hope I'm a little better than that as either alignment. Do you really think that poorly of me?

Quote from Rhand »

@Cantrip: Explain how Chris was in pocket-mode please?

191 with Tom and a little bit Silver. Then all Tom with 191, 212, and 220.

Quote from shadowlancerx »

@Cantrip: while there may be plenty about Mafia you don’t know, you’re not an incompetent player, so I’m calling bull crap on you not feeling comfortable posting much.

Read my post again. My discomfort wasn't because I felt insecure in my ability. It was because I didn't trust myself to wade in and snark the bejeebers out of everyone. Also I'm feeling a little speed whiplash because all the other games I'm playing are like 1,000 mph. Which, since they're not at 1,000,000 mph, is actually somewhat nice. But that's also made me feel like I can get to this game whenever and it'll all be ok. So this is good; it'll force me to be present. However, please confirm: what exactly did Chris "call me out" on that you're reviewing my posts for?

Chris, You posted a lot of words about how everyone else is impacted if I flip scum, but very little (other than me voting you) as to why I'm scum. Show me that this isn't just a 2nd level OMGUS on your part.

Quote from Rhand »

weird. when i try to iso cantrip, he doesn’t show up in the list of posters

That's happened to me before (trying to iso another player and them not showing up). Not sure what causes it, but it seems to fix itself after time/more posts? I show up when I look at it.

Quote from Rhand »

weird. when i try to iso cantrip, he doesn’t show up in the list of posters

I mean, mwahahahahaha, thus my evil plan unfurls.

Quote from LnGrrrR »

@Rhand, Cantrip,

Assume Tom is scum for a second. In that case, is Tubba more likely to be town or scum?

I don't know? Are you commenting on the lack of interaction between the two until you question Tom in 146?

Tit for tat: you never answered my question in 142.

Quote from shadowlancerx »

As far as your discomfort of not wanting to “snark the bejeebers out of everyone”, alright, fair, not how I initially read your post but I can see your meaning.

FTR, I seriously was like "I haven't posted in 48 hours, but I'm sorta cranky, probably should just ptap" but decided to commit to something.

Quote from Shadow »

Talk to me about Chris. I have a few thoughts but want your take first.

I don't know that I really have much beyond what I've already mentioned. Pocketing (I thought I remembered more than just Tom, but I guess not). And it feels like he's really playing up "the Great Sir Chris" aspect, which to me translates into disdain for whomever he's dismissing (whether for bad attacks or bad arguments). Like his "silly guy" label of Rhand in 191, the affected yawning and "foul voter" in 220 to you, and his response to you and disparaging of Riku in 224. Also not a fan of the middle paragraph of 186. It feels...like posturing. Like "hey, Grape, I may not even be good as scum anymore, but I'm awesome as town, so attacking me is suboptimal, and whoa, news flash, no matter what my alignment, it's -EV"!

His "gotcha" grates on me, though. Because either he's town and sincerely thinks he can catch mafia this way, or he's scum and thinks I'm an easy target.

Chris' smile is looking better but its still reasonably toothless.

Cantrips response though shows a bit of his naughty side, the whole thing a rather swollen segue.

So I actually find that gotcha moment really underwhelming... Maybe it's because I'd been remarking on how everyone seemed to be waiting to do something but that wasn't it.

The read that Rhand is town because he OMGUS'd hard is just a bizarre one. Maybe my meta on Rhand is off but push strength has never been a town indicator for him in my mind. The man is not afraid to be a bulldog in the early game as scum. I know because I've been on the receiving end of it and incorrectly town read him for it in the past. I don't think it being against Chris automatically makes it a town indicator by any stretch of the imagination. I'm open to being corrected here but I'm pretty sure scum Rhand is very capable of pushing hard early.

And without that brick Chris' conclusions are super weak. The only reasoning he gave was the joining the wagon and bad interactions with LnG. And without know LnG's alignment or even really having a scum read on LnG that does nothing for me. Being the third to hop on a wagon (especially when bait was telegraphed like that) is the most level 0 read I've seen in, well only like a week because champs, but for a long time before that.

Like there were decent reasons to push Cantrip there and Chris just chose not to talk about any of them because the wagon hop was enough for him? If it was Iso I might believe that but Chris has never struck me as one to under-explain and leave us to draw our own conclusions. Just not his MO.


Vote: Chris

Quote from shadowlancerx »

Which do you think is more likely, town or scum Chris? I don’t disagree that he hasn’t whelmed me yet, but I do think his “gotcha” moment is a good glimmer.

Really? Why?

He's scummy enough to me that I wish I had a dayvig to sort him, but I agree that if he's town it would be unfortunate.

Quote from tomsloger »

Cantrips response though shows a bit of his naughty side, the whole thing a rather swollen segue.

...can you drop back out of roleplay for a post and tell me if this means you think my responses are scummy or not? Why?