Well, at the end of the day in this situation you are misreading what I am saying as WIFOM. I am actually pointing out game theory and best outcomes for me as scum that are just fact, but because they come from me you think I am serving you wine.
My mafia philosophy though is to challenge things. To not allow quiet lynches to go through easily because those lead to bad things. I don't know how my confusion and genuine suspicion of what was going on, to the point that I pointed the finger at Tom since Lng clearly by the end was just sandbagging it, don't come through. I was really thinking that Lng was allowing himself to be bussed so Tom could look good because it was so absurd how bad he was playing.
I mean, is the best play day 1 to try to save my buddy.... wagoning Tom? It's like you can say this is wifom, but if you stipulate I am a good player you can't ignore that. OR YOU CAN, but... you're going to get bad results. See because it is me you are saying WIFOM, but... why not just murder rhand? Silver wanted to. Is he my other buddy in this scenario? Is Silver? Like honestly from my PoV right now I passed up a lot of easy town lynches and even defended them in pursuit of information.
The thing about being elite town is you don't always have a firm grasp on the game. Good town have good reads, great town know how to be effective for town when they don't think they have good scum reads. I stand by my play day 1, and my pushback against Lng's lynch did not harm town. Here's the thing. If I am scum (dun dun dun) ... I failed day one. I failed to hurt town. I got beat by... Tom. If I am town, although I resisted, town lynched scum and I walked away with a bunch of solid town reads that I have backed up today and narrowed my PoE a lot.
Look at how the game is going. We're fairly active, a little uneasy, but talking well to each other and making really strong arguments and going back and forth.
WIFOM? I bus Lng. More WIFOM? If I wanted to save a scum buddy day one I go after rhand and get him mislynched just like he was in DitF, he is an easy target and I can for sure out argue him.
The biggest hole in your subterfuge theory is that if that is the case then I failed. Active Scum Chris does not fail in his objectives tbh.
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By the way listen to that little voice in the back of your head saying "He's not scum." It's right. I know you so badly want me to be scum because it'd be an epic catch, but it's a team game.
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You ask if the best play D1 is to save your buddy by wagoning Tom...but you didn't wagon him, and I don't believe you actually thought you'd get traction there, not with that bad "Not willing to believe that literally every single active poster is town and Tom has been HEDGING as well" reasoning. You just needed a landing pad that wasn't Silver (because you just towned him), Wisp (because of the claim), or LnG (because he was your buddy). Oh, yeah, you COULD have turned on Rhand...except you had just towncleared him for switching his vote to Silver when you said jump. So, no, that avenue was closed, as well. Your intent wasn't to seriously attack Tom, but to cause noise/distract from the LnG wagon/distract from you distracting from the LnG wagon. But Silver didn't bite and instead went back to LnG. Then Rhand was swayed by your town case on Grape enough to not vote Grape...but instead of voting with you, he also voted LnG. Then Vaimes passively gave his blessing to lunch LnG based on LnG's inactivity.
Also, reading 600-650, your encouragement of an extension came AFTER LnG's v/la was announced, you pushed away from him again in 639, Rhand expressed unwillingness to lunch LnG without a claim, and Silver expressed similar thoughts and voted Grape, so you probably felt more secure in asking for an extension for a buddy. I also like how you sound Silver out in 643 on who on your list he might be interested in rather than committing to something yourself, not to mention your "Tom's never getting lunched toDay, so I'm not going to pursue him" in 644...but no unvote/vote change.
See all these little things? They keep piling up, Chris. Am I just confbiasing that you're being manipulative in ways that pushed away from LnG?
Talk to me about 639. It's a short little post, but I feel like there's a lot there. Unpack it for me, will you?
Thanks to that heatwave I am now also dealing with a hospital situation of passengers.
If this continues to absorb all my time, I will consider replacing out.
For now I think it will get better in a day or two.
By the way listen to that little voice in the back of your head saying "He's not scum." It's right. I know you so badly want me to be scum because it'd be an epic catch, but it's a team game.
Absolutely he is town. This is not a scum motivated argument.
Also Tom had 3 votes at one point! Show my paranoia of tom stone respect.
On mobile but as for unpacking I did not like the play. Him being scum is results based. I thought people were being lazy and were not challenging the status of the game well. So i challenged it aggeezzively. I dont regret doing that either as it cost us nothing.
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Also your version of events has scum Chris doomed by his own plays. My town clearing boxed me into a corner! It probably won't help to admit I am chuckling at the idea but I am striving to be honest.
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Also what's the argument for LNG again? I've read his posts here and there and yes I admit I am not opposed but... I worry about group think. I worry about "hold on, he hasn't posted in 5 days he needs to be replaced probably." Silver cried about me saying that about Ruma and we got LW, who has been a busy bee.
Maybe LNG is scum. I don't know, he's been a lump I get the temptation to just pile on the lump and move on. I get it! However, what I dare to suggestr my fellow members of town is we try to do better than just go for a lynch and instead we hold people to account for when they don't play well. Silver is admitting left and right that he isn't playing well but yet now he resorts to OMGUS of "oh man maybe it is Chris!" when he has admitted no less than three times that my points are in many ways valid even if some are not. He hasn't presented the connective tissue to go from "chris is town and wrong" to "oh man chris kept at it, scum I guess."
So we're murdering a player who is gone and there has been almost no resistance to his lynch.
Boy am I nervous about this "safe, top tier play" being right. Extremely nervous. Maybe this is my paranoia speaking but... gosh this would be convenient for town if he is actually scum.
Those don't seem to show that you thought he was playing badly. In fact, I like how in that second quote you explicitly float the possibility that LnG is scum, but then "dare" to suggest that the town "do better" [than lunching LnG] and instead "hold people to account for when they don't play well", then shift the paragraph focus to Silver admitting "left and right" that he isn't playing well. (Implying that instead of lunching LnG, we should lunch the guy who isn't playing well, implying that LnG WAS playing well, and refocusing the town's efforts on Silver.) So...if you thought LnG wasn't playing well and you were attacking Tom because you thought LnG was laying down to give Tom credit...why not lunch LnG???
Gotcha. You're done, Chris. And I'm pretty much done listening to you. I'll still read your posts, but I've expended a huge amount of time and effort fact checking you and your mindset, and every argument you make just digs you deeper and deeper, so I'm going to stop walling at you and wait for others to chime in.
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Because you very clearly do not read. In your own posts I call lng a lump. So do not tell me I didnt say lng aas playing badly when your own quotes contradict you. Just because you can't tell the difference between likely and possible and choose to pursue possible isn't a defect in my argument. It isn't a defect in my argument that town was not harmed by my actions. It is not a defect in my argument that historically IE READ MY SCUM HISTORY OR ADMIT TO BEING IGNORANT AND THUS UNINFORMED the best way to scum read me is to read the tone of the game.
You are not allowed to say I am elite scum and then for your conclusion to be based on "you messed up and cornered yourself." Say I am bad scum then.
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Also here is a news flash: I have played hundreds of games. Thousands. Piling on the inactive say 1 has low equity. It just does. I dont even care that lng is scum. For every lng there are 5 towns who are lynched day one. That is just reality. Acknowledge that. Seriously you are scum reading me because we are playing two different games entirely. Even knowing lang's alignment I know I played it right. I am unashamed of my day one play. Completely. It was confused at times but genuine and leading in the right direction.
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Also it is just rude to say get rekt when I have made every effort to fit into your schedule and discuss this to conclusion. You had the opportunity to have a genuine back and forth with me because I moved my schedule and made this a priority. It is disrespectful to MY effort.
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Btw you can dismiss this as ATE. this last point had nothing to do with lynch not lynch. Just try to have some decorum when murdering me.
You are not the first or last town member whose eyes got big at the thought of eternal glory. The truth is my scum side smiles. Every time I am falsely accused as town my scum game only improves.
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Maybe you are bad scum. Or maybe you're just so used to being good that your default mode is to wing it and count on your ability to talk your way out of any pickles you find yourself in. No one had called you out on it yet, and I only found it because I felt so bad about not contributing to this game + seeing some really solid interaction analysis from others in Phantom of the Opera, so I was putting in the effort. In many games I never would have made the time to comb through the thread.
You keep emphasizing that town wasn't harmed by your actions...but that's only because town didn't follow your lead. Had they, we wouldn't have lunched LnG. So "what was the harm, really, in what I did" holds ZERO water.
I already said I put a ton of time in; I certainly don't have time for a deep meta dive on you. Help me out, maybe? Point to your last 5-6 games and explain why you think they are counterexamples to you being scum here? I mean...I don't know how persuasive that would be, and I don't want to burden you with time-intensive tasks, either, which is why I thought I WAS reading the tone of the game.
How did you, if scum, "corner" yourself? That whole series of posts ended with you having SIX possible scumreads.
How was your play "leading in the right direction" when you were pushing away from scum with practically every post?
However...I may have used "get rekt" without fully being aware of the entirety of the tonal implications or how that phrase is generally interpreted. That wasn't intended to come off as disrespectful, just to reconfirm that I feel confident that I've caught you. I'm VERY appreciative that you're engaging; I just don't feel like continuing to wall at you is going to be productive (and yet, here I go again) because I very strongly feel like you're caught. I apologize for any insult I offered; that wasn't my intent.
Btw you can dismiss this as ATE. this last point had nothing to do with lynch not lynch. Just try to have some decorum when murdering me.
No, I never want to stoop to personal insults and attacks to make my points, so I accept that you're offended at face value without putting it into a "makes more likely town" or "makes more likely scum" box.
Telling someone to "get wrecked" (in the context of a game) can be similar to telling someone to "go kill yourself." Implicit in the imperative is that the person it's directed at is so bad or that the commentator hates them so much that they ought to just go kill or wreck themselves.
Of course, as is common with slang, it is often used with heavy amounts of irony or non-seriousness.
It can also be used as a standard imperative instructing the interlocutor to get wrecked or destroyed. The slight irony here is that you give the imperative after the wrecking has already happened.
I'm pretty ashamed of using the term, I guess. Sorry. I was thinking of it more along the lines of the last two lines, certainly not the first two.
Having read the walls, pretty sure Chris is still town. Maybe I'm getting wined but I stand by the fact that ~most of the players here would not have actively tried to counterwagon LnGrrr the way Chris did.
Cantrip has much lower wolf equity than he did before he made the case and carried it on the way he did, I wouldn't really call it a town read but my desire to see his flip has dramatically lessened.
If Cantrip is town then either my reads are almost upside down or the team is just like, shadow/Rhand or shadow/Rodemy which is both plausible and boring.
I think I want to lunch shadow more than anyone else at the moment because he fits the LnGrrr busser archetype and is the only one on the wagon I think is plausible for it other than, like, Rodemy, who I still don't reaally think is a plausible LnGrrr partner because LnGr garcia'd a question Will asked and I don't think he would have interrupted a partner like that. Rodemy has independent wolf equity but ehhhh.
Hah, Cantrip just got rekt by himself (seriously Cantrip, no one here who ever uses that phrase is actually suggesting for someone to go kill themselves, it’s meant to be a fun phrase).
@Silevr: How do I make any sense as a Lng busser? While I’ve done it before, focusing almost solely on pushing a buddy day 1, earlier and harder than most people pushed him is not my style as scum. Honestly, if you weren’t a claimed PR, I’d be much more concerned about you.
(If anyone else is an investigative role, with this game being advertised as low power/basic level, it would behoove you to say something)
As far as your question about my rhand read, I’d have to go back and actually look at his iso in context to give you specifics, and I’m just not that motivated today. It’s just a compiling of small things that I’ve liked in context and make him seem like he cares about figuring the game out more than pushing a narrative.
~~~~~
Cantrip vs Chris is...I don’t know. I feel like it should affect how I feel about them, and in truth I like Chris’ gusto. But it’s a lot of arguing over WIFOM and “Why would I do that”s, which don’t really get me anywhere.
Cantrip being engaged more is definitely a good thing.
If Chris isn’t going to be a thing, and deadline is what, this weekend? Kinda want to Vote Rodemy to consolidate some. The fact that he’s accruing votes but still only really addressing the first is not a good look imo.
So, shadow trying to get additional roles to counterclaim a JoAT is. a thing.
@shadow: It's been a while since I iso'd you, if it's really what you say then maybe it isn't a bus but my recollection is you were the second or third vote on him after tom started going hard on him and you have a pretty long history of townsiding hard as a wolf specifically to get people to make the argument that you wouldn't have done that as a wolf.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
It wasn't all for nothing, Cantrip, I don't want to murder you anymore.
Could you rank the players from most town to most wolf when you get a bit? Whatever format, doesn't matter. Just the list is fine if you're busy, too, and don't want to elaborate.
Game doesn't have enough reads lists and it makes it much harder to track progressions.
Silver (claim + interactions/choices around LnG lunch)
Tubba (way he was handled by LnG)
Wisp (claim)
Rhand (a big part of this is because he was the counterwagon)
Grape/Shadow/Vaimes/Rodemy (I'm not sure what order these are in, yet)
Chris
Deadline is just a little more than 39 hours, I believe. Sucks that Rod and Grape are completely gone right now. If I've failed to convince people on Chris, I'll have to figure out where I'd rather lunch. I won't have any kind of chance until tonight (and then only maybe).
Chris, if I seriously offended you, I again apologize, very sincerely. Come back and play, please.
I'll vote Rodemy to prevent a no lunch but I don't really think he's a wolf tbqh.
I'd like an actual counter wagon, too, but one isn't likely to materialize. Rhand being the counterwagon twice is. A thing. If Rodemy is a wolf.
I'll probably write a legacy and do some pre-emptive world building when I get home, I'm phone posting and out of town at the moment but I'll definitely be here for deadline whenever it is.
Cantrip you are voting the person who has been on me the most and you think I am scum.
Cantrip pls. Clearly after day 1 I decided to end on a bus of Rodemy
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LnGrrrR (5) - tomsloger (#144), shadowlancerx (#353), Lastwhisper (#487), Silvercrys3467 (#607), Rhand (#611)
Rhand (3) - Vaimes (#299), Grapefruit21 (#300), Will-98 (#329) tomsloger (2) - LnGrrrR (#153), Sir Chris (#604)
Sir Chris (1) - Cantripmancer (#230)
Not Voting: Tubba Fett
Holy crap a ton of movement was lost here. I voted Wisp briefly, Chris and Wisp both voted me, and that's just what I remember, I'm sure there's more. Our duo of maybe-wolves and Grape still on Rhand though. They seem to have gone inactive at this point for various reasons.
Still here. Having established the LnGrrr wagon and feeling ~relatively certain it would still be here to return to, I tried to find an alternative counterwagon because Rhand had stalled out some 300 posts ago.
Vaimes makes a simple unvote, Grape/Chris/LnGrrr on tom. Seems ~vaguely unlikely Chris is a partner here unless he was just trying literally anything to save LnGrrr, who was also a goon, which. Meh.
LnGrrrR (6) - tomsloger (#144), shadowlancerx (#353), Lastwhisper (#487), Sir Chris (#839), Silvercrys3467 (#843), Rodemy (#858) tomsloger (2) - LnGrrrR (#153), Grapefruit21 (#731)
Grapefruit (1) - Rhand (#751)
Silvercrys3467 (1) - Tubba Fett (#732)
Sir Chris (1) - Cantripmancer (#818)
Not Voting: Vaimes
Lot of movement lost here, too, Rodemy threw his vote around a lot before settling on LnGrrr as I recall. Might have to do a vote by vote just to see how the missing votes moved but I lost the program I was using to do those rofl.
Anyway basically Chris/me/Rodemy join the LnGrrr wagon. Chris leaving tom for LnGrrr is probably NAI at this point, if he's a wolf it's obviously pointless if he's town he wants the lunch over the no lunch. So yeah Rodemy (Will) could be the Rhand wolf and a LnGrrr busser I suppose. I still kind of think Will was a villager but more on that in a bit probably.
What is interesting about this vote count is that Grapefruit left tom to create a vanity Rhand wagon again at the last moment. Seems +town, if he was a wolf trying to manipulate the vote counts he'd probably stay next to his partner. I guess he could have just level 0'd it and said "crap I don't want to be voting tom when LnGrrr flips" but eh, kind of think he's a villager on LnGrrr interactions and stuff anyway.
Okay, so, after the next set of kills, if I'm dead, I think this set of vote counts is pretty important and you can ~probably catch the rest of the wolves just off of this wagon movement once we have a few more bodies we can fill in with definite alignments. I do think will/Rodemy is a miss but I can't find a ton of other evidence except for, well.
Want to throw out a question, quickly.
Tom and LnGrrrR have the earliest standing vote, and both voted each other. So after ~150 posts, no changing, which may be weird because there haven't been a lot of debate about Tom being scum, for example. Does that mean anything? I find peculiar that LnGrrrR hasn't changed his vote.
For example, I'm a much more easy target than Tom, and got under investigation. I also don't find enough evidenxes for a vote on Tom. Did I miss something on Tom? Also, maybe I'm too easy to be targeted that soon, assuming LnGrrrR is scum and I'm town?
Unfortunately, I can't advance a lot in this reasoning. Need more evidences.
@ LnGrrrR: Why do you consider Tom the best voting in the moment?
@ Everyone : Any thoughts on that? Sorry, this is the best I could bring for now. And I'm bored. May not be a good reasoning. But wanted to try.
Before anyone says something:
I'm not trying to create a [player vs player] scenario, which would be a scum indicative, nor trying to create an alarm on other people to clear my name of investigation. It'd be naive to try such things since you guys have more experience and would probably notice. Also, I'm making things clear by revealing my thought process.
How many players in this would bother coaching a new wolf into making this post about a partner and a villager's cross vote? Do you think he came up with this on his own or something? Cause man, this is just a slick post if he's a new wolf especially since LnGrrr is a partner lol.
Obviously the fact that he didn't follow it up with a vote weakens the read but like. Just read that post and tell me you think that's a new wolf talking about his partner LnGrrr.
Oh jesus that Will post is why I didn't really like Lng much to start.
##unvote: Rodemy
Hm.
Is it literally Silver and someone here or am I too soft on one of my town reads? Oh **** me.
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god if this is Silver's wolf meta, it's glorious, I can't imagine a wolf faking this much content
still off the table for now, since I don't feel like actually deep-diving into his posts
also never voting Tubba today, in case any one thought that his train would be good, he hasnt doesnt anything wolfy, and his posts dont give me a trying to fake content vibe
also Will was the main reason I had him at a town read
was there ever a counter train to Rhand?
In what context? LnGrrr was a counterwagon to Rhand on D1 before the Rhand wagon disintegrated, as documented in my previous post. I think Rhand's counterwagon on D2 was shadow, mainly, but I'd have to actually verify that my memory being what it is.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
My mafia philosophy though is to challenge things. To not allow quiet lynches to go through easily because those lead to bad things. I don't know how my confusion and genuine suspicion of what was going on, to the point that I pointed the finger at Tom since Lng clearly by the end was just sandbagging it, don't come through. I was really thinking that Lng was allowing himself to be bussed so Tom could look good because it was so absurd how bad he was playing.
I mean, is the best play day 1 to try to save my buddy.... wagoning Tom? It's like you can say this is wifom, but if you stipulate I am a good player you can't ignore that. OR YOU CAN, but... you're going to get bad results. See because it is me you are saying WIFOM, but... why not just murder rhand? Silver wanted to. Is he my other buddy in this scenario? Is Silver? Like honestly from my PoV right now I passed up a lot of easy town lynches and even defended them in pursuit of information.
The thing about being elite town is you don't always have a firm grasp on the game. Good town have good reads, great town know how to be effective for town when they don't think they have good scum reads. I stand by my play day 1, and my pushback against Lng's lynch did not harm town. Here's the thing. If I am scum (dun dun dun) ... I failed day one. I failed to hurt town. I got beat by... Tom. If I am town, although I resisted, town lynched scum and I walked away with a bunch of solid town reads that I have backed up today and narrowed my PoE a lot.
Look at how the game is going. We're fairly active, a little uneasy, but talking well to each other and making really strong arguments and going back and forth.
WIFOM? I bus Lng. More WIFOM? If I wanted to save a scum buddy day one I go after rhand and get him mislynched just like he was in DitF, he is an easy target and I can for sure out argue him.
The biggest hole in your subterfuge theory is that if that is the case then I failed. Active Scum Chris does not fail in his objectives tbh.
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Also, reading 600-650, your encouragement of an extension came AFTER LnG's v/la was announced, you pushed away from him again in 639, Rhand expressed unwillingness to lunch LnG without a claim, and Silver expressed similar thoughts and voted Grape, so you probably felt more secure in asking for an extension for a buddy. I also like how you sound Silver out in 643 on who on your list he might be interested in rather than committing to something yourself, not to mention your "Tom's never getting lunched toDay, so I'm not going to pursue him" in 644...but no unvote/vote change.
See all these little things? They keep piling up, Chris. Am I just confbiasing that you're being manipulative in ways that pushed away from LnG?
Talk to me about 639. It's a short little post, but I feel like there's a lot there. Unpack it for me, will you?
If this continues to absorb all my time, I will consider replacing out.
For now I think it will get better in a day or two.
Do you think Cantrip is town?
Also Tom had 3 votes at one point! Show my paranoia of tom stone respect.
On mobile but as for unpacking I did not like the play. Him being scum is results based. I thought people were being lazy and were not challenging the status of the game well. So i challenged it aggeezzively. I dont regret doing that either as it cost us nothing.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
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2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Gotcha. You're done, Chris. And I'm pretty much done listening to you. I'll still read your posts, but I've expended a huge amount of time and effort fact checking you and your mindset, and every argument you make just digs you deeper and deeper, so I'm going to stop walling at you and wait for others to chime in.
Get rekt, scum.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
You are not allowed to say I am elite scum and then for your conclusion to be based on "you messed up and cornered yourself." Say I am bad scum then.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
You are not the first or last town member whose eyes got big at the thought of eternal glory. The truth is my scum side smiles. Every time I am falsely accused as town my scum game only improves.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
You keep emphasizing that town wasn't harmed by your actions...but that's only because town didn't follow your lead. Had they, we wouldn't have lunched LnG. So "what was the harm, really, in what I did" holds ZERO water.
I already said I put a ton of time in; I certainly don't have time for a deep meta dive on you. Help me out, maybe? Point to your last 5-6 games and explain why you think they are counterexamples to you being scum here? I mean...I don't know how persuasive that would be, and I don't want to burden you with time-intensive tasks, either, which is why I thought I WAS reading the tone of the game.
How did you, if scum, "corner" yourself? That whole series of posts ended with you having SIX possible scumreads.
How was your play "leading in the right direction" when you were pushing away from scum with practically every post?
However...I may have used "get rekt" without fully being aware of the entirety of the tonal implications or how that phrase is generally interpreted. That wasn't intended to come off as disrespectful, just to reconfirm that I feel confident that I've caught you. I'm VERY appreciative that you're engaging; I just don't feel like continuing to wall at you is going to be productive (and yet, here I go again) because I very strongly feel like you're caught. I apologize for any insult I offered; that wasn't my intent.
I'm pretty ashamed of using the term, I guess. Sorry. I was thinking of it more along the lines of the last two lines, certainly not the first two.
I will be much less available from now until deadline, but I'll read as time permits and try to post if possible.
Maybe someone else could come post and resurrect the game...
Cantrip has much lower wolf equity than he did before he made the case and carried it on the way he did, I wouldn't really call it a town read but my desire to see his flip has dramatically lessened.
If Cantrip is town then either my reads are almost upside down or the team is just like, shadow/Rhand or shadow/Rodemy which is both plausible and boring.
I think I want to lunch shadow more than anyone else at the moment because he fits the LnGrrr busser archetype and is the only one on the wagon I think is plausible for it other than, like, Rodemy, who I still don't reaally think is a plausible LnGrrr partner because LnGr garcia'd a question Will asked and I don't think he would have interrupted a partner like that. Rodemy has independent wolf equity but ehhhh.
Vaimes. Are you scum this game? I’ve never seen you so wrong
@Silevr: How do I make any sense as a Lng busser? While I’ve done it before, focusing almost solely on pushing a buddy day 1, earlier and harder than most people pushed him is not my style as scum. Honestly, if you weren’t a claimed PR, I’d be much more concerned about you.
(If anyone else is an investigative role, with this game being advertised as low power/basic level, it would behoove you to say something)
As far as your question about my rhand read, I’d have to go back and actually look at his iso in context to give you specifics, and I’m just not that motivated today. It’s just a compiling of small things that I’ve liked in context and make him seem like he cares about figuring the game out more than pushing a narrative.
~~~~~
Cantrip vs Chris is...I don’t know. I feel like it should affect how I feel about them, and in truth I like Chris’ gusto. But it’s a lot of arguing over WIFOM and “Why would I do that”s, which don’t really get me anywhere.
Cantrip being engaged more is definitely a good thing.
If Chris isn’t going to be a thing, and deadline is what, this weekend? Kinda want to
Vote Rodemy to consolidate some. The fact that he’s accruing votes but still only really addressing the first is not a good look imo.
I’m happy to lynch either of Shadow/Rodemy right now, and Shadow’s tacked on reason for his Rodemy vote is not a good look.
@shadow: It's been a while since I iso'd you, if it's really what you say then maybe it isn't a bus but my recollection is you were the second or third vote on him after tom started going hard on him and you have a pretty long history of townsiding hard as a wolf specifically to get people to make the argument that you wouldn't have done that as a wolf.
Rodemy (4) - Vaimes (#1058), Sir Chris (#1349), Lastwhisper (#1375), shadowlancer (#1421)
Rhand (2) - Grapefruit (#1055), Rodemy (#1255)
shadowlancerx (2) - Rhand (#1294), Silvercrys3467 (#1329)
Sir Chris (1) - Cantripmancer (#1388)
Not Voting: Tubba Fett
With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch!
Deadline is Sunday, June 28 at midnight PST.
V/LA: Vaimes through the week, Rod to Monday, Cantrip to deadline probably
I don't know why I even bother.
If Chris flips scum, I'm going to be so mad.
Shadow, I thought that was the case. Is Chris just trolling me, or is he genuinely angry??
It wasn't all for nothing, Cantrip, I don't want to murder you anymore.
Could you rank the players from most town to most wolf when you get a bit? Whatever format, doesn't matter. Just the list is fine if you're busy, too, and don't want to elaborate.
Game doesn't have enough reads lists and it makes it much harder to track progressions.
I will go through them at one point.
Silver (claim + interactions/choices around LnG lunch)
Tubba (way he was handled by LnG)
Wisp (claim)
Rhand (a big part of this is because he was the counterwagon)
Grape/Shadow/Vaimes/Rodemy (I'm not sure what order these are in, yet)
Chris
Deadline is just a little more than 39 hours, I believe. Sucks that Rod and Grape are completely gone right now. If I've failed to convince people on Chris, I'll have to figure out where I'd rather lunch. I won't have any kind of chance until tonight (and then only maybe).
Chris, if I seriously offended you, I again apologize, very sincerely. Come back and play, please.
You think Grape is a viable LnGrr partner?
ill probably weigh tonight, I should be around for the deadline
I'd like an actual counter wagon, too, but one isn't likely to materialize. Rhand being the counterwagon twice is. A thing. If Rodemy is a wolf.
I'll probably write a legacy and do some pre-emptive world building when I get home, I'm phone posting and out of town at the moment but I'll definitely be here for deadline whenever it is.
Even more if we have less than 11.
Vaimes, Rod, Cantrip V/LA and Grape unable to post.
Wisp coming back later, Rhand in an emergency.
Leaves, what, Tubba? Chris? Shadow?
When was the last time Tubba even posted? I don't think I remember one post he made toDay.
Anyway, Rodemy (if he's checking the thread) and Cantrip should vote shadow with me before we inevitably lunch Rodemy without a claim.
View: Shadow
Stupid autocorrect.
Vote: Shadow
Kind of need Rhand's alignment to read this vote count but if he's a villager one of Vaimes/Rodemy almost always a wolf, right?
Gonna look at this wagon movement closer in a little while hopefully.
Cantrip pls. Clearly after day 1 I decided to end on a bus of Rodemy
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2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Me, tom, and shadow on LnGrrr here. Vaimes/Grape/Will on Rhand still.
Holy crap a ton of movement was lost here. I voted Wisp briefly, Chris and Wisp both voted me, and that's just what I remember, I'm sure there's more. Our duo of maybe-wolves and Grape still on Rhand though. They seem to have gone inactive at this point for various reasons.
Still here. Having established the LnGrrr wagon and feeling ~relatively certain it would still be here to return to, I tried to find an alternative counterwagon because Rhand had stalled out some 300 posts ago.
Vaimes makes a simple unvote, Grape/Chris/LnGrrr on tom. Seems ~vaguely unlikely Chris is a partner here unless he was just trying literally anything to save LnGrrr, who was also a goon, which. Meh.
Lot of movement lost here, too, Rodemy threw his vote around a lot before settling on LnGrrr as I recall. Might have to do a vote by vote just to see how the missing votes moved but I lost the program I was using to do those rofl.
Anyway basically Chris/me/Rodemy join the LnGrrr wagon. Chris leaving tom for LnGrrr is probably NAI at this point, if he's a wolf it's obviously pointless if he's town he wants the lunch over the no lunch. So yeah Rodemy (Will) could be the Rhand wolf and a LnGrrr busser I suppose. I still kind of think Will was a villager but more on that in a bit probably.
Only thing after this is the self hammer.
What is interesting about this vote count is that Grapefruit left tom to create a vanity Rhand wagon again at the last moment. Seems +town, if he was a wolf trying to manipulate the vote counts he'd probably stay next to his partner. I guess he could have just level 0'd it and said "crap I don't want to be voting tom when LnGrrr flips" but eh, kind of think he's a villager on LnGrrr interactions and stuff anyway.
Okay, so, after the next set of kills, if I'm dead, I think this set of vote counts is pretty important and you can ~probably catch the rest of the wolves just off of this wagon movement once we have a few more bodies we can fill in with definite alignments. I do think will/Rodemy is a miss but I can't find a ton of other evidence except for, well.
How many players in this would bother coaching a new wolf into making this post about a partner and a villager's cross vote? Do you think he came up with this on his own or something? Cause man, this is just a slick post if he's a new wolf especially since LnGrrr is a partner lol.
Obviously the fact that he didn't follow it up with a vote weakens the read but like. Just read that post and tell me you think that's a new wolf talking about his partner LnGrrr.
what is the VC?
##unvote: Rodemy
Hm.
Is it literally Silver and someone here or am I too soft on one of my town reads? Oh **** me.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
still off the table for now, since I don't feel like actually deep-diving into his posts
also never voting Tubba today, in case any one thought that his train would be good, he hasnt doesnt anything wolfy, and his posts dont give me a trying to fake content vibe
also Will was the main reason I had him at a town read
was there ever a counter train to Rhand?
shadowlancerx (3) - Rhand (#1294), Silvercrys3467 (#1329), Cantripmancer (#1439)
Rodemy (2) - Vaimes (#1058), shadowlancer (#1421)
Rhand (2) - Grapefruit (#1055), Rodemy (#1255)
Not Voting: Tubba Fett, Lastwhisper, Sir Chris
With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch!
Deadline is Sunday, June 28 at midnight PST, in about 6 hours.
V/LA: Vaimes through the week, Rod to Monday, Cantrip to deadline probably
vote: shadow