I feel like 5 different people have tried to pocket me this game and it's weirding me out. I think Shin'sVaimes attempt is the sketchiest of bunch. His "I'm tired of Grape dying D1" posturing just felt off to me. But then again I could totally see Shin feeling that way after a scum game where he had to push me over a buddy D1... shrug
@Silver, why do you think no one wants to lynch Riku? All I have seen is a lot of neutrality on him.
I mean, pretty much everyone who commented on the RVS stuff I saw said something to the effect of "He can die but I don't think that makes him a wolf."
If people wanted to lunch him they would have voted him, but he didn't draw a single vote besides mine.
@tom Yeah you were one. Vaimes is another. I'd have to go back through the thread to find the others (think there's at least one more) but that seems like a waste of time unless/until he flips red.
I was holding back to see but I’ll get into it. Sir Chris is by all accounts a great player. His case against Will is not something I think a great player does. The problem with Will is not something to hang on his newness. It’s not that he can’t think those things as a new player or be confident in them. To me, it looks coached, it’s an abrupt change in tone and style at a time when he needs to look like he’s doing something. If Sir Chris picked up on that, why not push it? As far as avoiding talking about Tom, I don’t know if there’s anything to read into that. Tom’s been rp vamping, not sure how to interact with it myself. It’s a wait and see thing.
Lngrr and Shin making my RB/JK hot take into more than it was, Lngrr took a second look and moved on, Shin didn’t, and didn’t seem to acknowledge it had been discussed. Can’t ask Shin about it, but combining that with Vaimes sorta calling me out with all bark and no bite as it were is making me side eye the slot.
But also I was saying the same thing in a different way, I believe. What I was saying was that his words came from a stance of someone much more confident of the game of mafia than the rest of the tone. That's what I was trying to get at with aggressive. Admittedly my mind did not leap to coached while looking over it but coached is probably a good way to describe it.
Especially with "I didn't mean to come off aggressive" I know bud, I know you weren't intending that.
Basically to rephrase he made a judgment call that someone new would never naturally make. Coached? Maybe. But his phrasing was not newbie town at all, and I love me some newbie town.
As for Tom, I proved last town game of mine I am not great at reading him and he seems ok so I see no reason to dig into him. If someone wants to have a problem with him present the case but it is weird to say I've ignored him when I gave an AOK for today note on him fairly early on.
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KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I was holding back to see but I’ll get into it. Sir Chris is by all accounts a great player. His case against Will is not something I think a great player does. The problem with Will is not something to hang on his newness. It’s not that he can’t think those things as a new player or be confident in them. To me, it looks coached, it’s an abrupt change in tone and style at a time when he needs to look like he’s doing something. If Sir Chris picked up on that, why not push it? As far as avoiding talking about Tom, I don’t know if there’s anything to read into that. Tom’s been rp vamping, not sure how to interact with it myself. It’s a wait and see thing.
Lngrr and Shin making my RB/JK hot take into more than it was, Lngrr took a second look and moved on, Shin didn’t, and didn’t seem to acknowledge it had been discussed. Can’t ask Shin about it, but combining that with Vaimes sorta calling me out with all bark and no bite as it were is making me side eye the slot.
Thinking about taking any of those people home tonight?
Or, like, voting them?
Also why does Chris catch your eye more than Will looking coached?
UBRGrixis Shard: Grixis believes in a bold and impassioned search for satisfaction, perfection, and self expression. Those of Grixis colors have an eagerness to break the status quo and remake things in their own image. They disregard tradition and conventional approval, seeing them as unnecessary to achieve their goals, the well behaved rarely make history. Blue wants perfection. Black wants power. Red wants freedom.
UBRGrixis Shard: Grixis believes in a bold and impassioned search for satisfaction, perfection, and self expression. Those of Grixis colors have an eagerness to break the status quo and remake things in their own image. They disregard tradition and conventional approval, seeing them as unnecessary to achieve their goals, the well behaved rarely make history. Blue wants perfection. Black wants power. Red wants freedom.
"Coaching is one when player gives advice to another play as to how to vote or otherwise behave in a mafia game. This may be a town player disagreeing with another player regardless of their alignment, sometimes it is viewed as scum trying to give advice to another scum player since scum usually don't have access to their private chat during the day."
Nope. Not happening. I didn't even notice who was voting Rhand when I did it. The vote was all by myself, and I wanted to do it as a more reasoned vote rather than a random one, as it used to be when I declared Cantrip vote based on nothing.
Talking to other players is also against the rules, isn't it?
It's part of my personality going all in into a game and trying to be good at this. Also, I like to speculate. That's why my vote may have seemed forced.
Also cheers.
UBRGrixis Shard: Grixis believes in a bold and impassioned search for satisfaction, perfection, and self expression. Those of Grixis colors have an eagerness to break the status quo and remake things in their own image. They disregard tradition and conventional approval, seeing them as unnecessary to achieve their goals, the well behaved rarely make history. Blue wants perfection. Black wants power. Red wants freedom.
That is exactly what I was after, thanks Tom. That level of thirst is how I see Tubba's:
I'm totally most engaged when you ask me questions. Why don't you ask me a question. Question please.
Sort of thing.
Contrast my “thirstiness” with Silver’s “Nobody wants to play with me” from earlier in the day. Is it different and if so why?
His felt natural due to his urge to interact before going away on holidays and fit with his activity level. Yours was out of nowhere after being missing for a few days.
I feel like 5 different people have tried to pocket me this game and it's weirding me out. I think Shin'sVaimes attempt is the sketchiest of bunch. His "I'm tired of Grape dying D1" posturing just felt off to me. But then again I could totally see Shin feeling that way after a scum game where he had to push me over a buddy D1... shrug
I may have talked myself into a Vaimes town lean.
I said that to hold myself accountable, b-baka...!
-
Today sucked and I don't really feel like talking to people. Mostly just scrolled to see if I was mentioned.
I was holding back to see but I’ll get into it. Sir Chris is by all accounts a great player. His case against Will is not something I think a great player does. The problem with Will is not something to hang on his newness. It’s not that he can’t think those things as a new player or be confident in them. To me, it looks coached, it’s an abrupt change in tone and style at a time when he needs to look like he’s doing something. If Sir Chris picked up on that, why not push it? As far as avoiding talking about Tom, I don’t know if there’s anything to read into that. Tom’s been rp vamping, not sure how to interact with it myself. It’s a wait and see thing.
Lngrr and Shin making my RB/JK hot take into more than it was, Lngrr took a second look and moved on, Shin didn’t, and didn’t seem to acknowledge it had been discussed. Can’t ask Shin about it, but combining that with Vaimes sorta calling me out with all bark and no bite as it were is making me side eye the slot.
You're not really packing enough down there for me to get a good grip, ya feel?
@Grape: tell me why / where.
It feels like a blanket statement to me.
Well that's because it was a blanket statement. with these things it's often a feel or stray post. But I can give you the bullet points. LnG's entrance that's been widely discussed but felt like he was trying to get in my good books. Cantrip and Chris both felt like they were trying to get me onside in their wall off. Neither was committing to a full town read but they were both handling me in a friendly way. Then there was the Shin one I discussed above and Vaimes kind of continued it with his remarks about actually reading me/not wanting me dead D1.
Then I'm just constantly paranoid of Tom/Shadow trying to pocket me at all times regardless of context.
Silvercrys
Chris
Vaimes
tom
Tubba
Grapefruit
Shadow
Cantrip
Will
Rhand
LnGrrr
Ruma
Hi, I'm town.
Chris's effort posts mainly show effort rather than that he's a villager, but it's the bits where he says he's excited and fired up to hunt wolves and play the game because he doesn't want to disappoint Shadow that make the posts go. His play feels entirely agendaless / uninformed.
I was lightly townreading Shin for stuff he did before I went V/LA, think it was mostly the sass. Vaimes clearing Tubba of the D1 lunch is kind of weird here if he's a wolf, defending low hanging fruit isn't really something I associate with his wolf game. Guess they could be partners but
tom is tom. Actually no though, I liked how he pushed back against Grape saying he needed to try to make his thoughts clear through the gimmick since it isn't really a gimmick, and most of his thoughts are like, "sure, yes, this is a reasonable stance to have on this".
Tubba is some kind of gut read based on tone after I said I wasn't going to be able to tone read him. Really though, just like body-of-work I don't think he's playing with partners.
Grapefruit I was townreading for... some reason, I can't remember what and the read feels stale now. I'll iso him eventually and figure out what the reason was and whether I think it's good enough.
Shadow is a very good and reasonable wolf that I am not equipped to catch. If he is a wolf he has partners and I'm going to lunch them first; I just don't feel like I'll ever really "get there" on him either way.
Cantrip is in sort of the same boat; his walls, as I already said, are very good, but they don't really. convince me that he's town.
Will is a conflicted, confused soul, torn between openly howling and being a quiet villager.
I was just being friendly, when I want to pocket you I will offer you cookies tbh.
Ruma seems like a bit of a dead fish at the moment, which aren't usually the best people to go after day one as it kills movement. Will has yet to move the meter for me.
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Sir Chris, just a question: why you said your vote on me was for "bad resoning/bad voting" before if your reason was actually thinking I was a bad scum being coached?
Even if you didn't want to "push it" imediately, I don't see why you'd lie on your reasons to vote, there.
Hence,I don't know if your coaching theory is really sincere. You focused on saying my wording was aggressive (the "obvious" stuff). The speech seemed to rather be attacking my "rights" as a new player.
Can you clarify, please?
UBRGrixis Shard: Grixis believes in a bold and impassioned search for satisfaction, perfection, and self expression. Those of Grixis colors have an eagerness to break the status quo and remake things in their own image. They disregard tradition and conventional approval, seeing them as unnecessary to achieve their goals, the well behaved rarely make history. Blue wants perfection. Black wants power. Red wants freedom.
I like your read, Silver. Not biased and very realistic. I do admit my last vote was different from my previous posts, although I believe the reaction was exagerated.
UBRGrixis Shard: Grixis believes in a bold and impassioned search for satisfaction, perfection, and self expression. Those of Grixis colors have an eagerness to break the status quo and remake things in their own image. They disregard tradition and conventional approval, seeing them as unnecessary to achieve their goals, the well behaved rarely make history. Blue wants perfection. Black wants power. Red wants freedom.
Third post in a row, because I just read stuff again, including some walls (which I still haven't understood)
If I was being coached I probably wouldn't just realize you guys were pointing this out at #365 as I did. I'd defend myself way before that.
I don't know all the expressions used on mafia, so it didn't occur to me you guys were theorizing about coaching, since I thought this word meant something harmless. I also read quickly the posts that I find convoluted, so it didn't catch my eye.
Anyway, probably not talking about that anymore. Sir Chriss doesn't seem to be willing to answer my questions or debate over that.
UBRGrixis Shard: Grixis believes in a bold and impassioned search for satisfaction, perfection, and self expression. Those of Grixis colors have an eagerness to break the status quo and remake things in their own image. They disregard tradition and conventional approval, seeing them as unnecessary to achieve their goals, the well behaved rarely make history. Blue wants perfection. Black wants power. Red wants freedom.
A bit anxious aren't you? I don't know your time zone but mine is EST, meaning I was up very late last night so I simply wasn't giving full oomph to my posts. No need to fret I am here now.
Anyway my original vote was not placed on a "bad" paradigm but rather a paradigm where I did not believe you to be credible in the honesty of your attack. I believe you mentioned something about me not liking you or getting pissed but I tend to be fairly calm when playing mafia, if a tad excitable.
Your post had language in it that both threw some serious shade and made some assumptions about logic (which is fine in a vacuum) but also was very hesitant at the same time. It was like, when I was reading it, I was seeing a hint a tiger before in the blink of an eye you were once again a mewling kitten.
Someone else described this as coached, not me. I followed up with "Coached could fit what I am seeing" or some such. My problem is in post tonal issues which seems like you have a sharp mind but you hedge using your newness, which came off a bit manipulative.
So when someone said coached I thought to myself "that also makes sense to what I saw, so no reason to disagree as it is a valid line of thought" although not the main thrust of my argument. So I find it interesting that is what you latch onto. It makes me think you are scum but were not coached. Which suits my scum theory just fine. One of the hallmarks of scum is having several arguments against them and picking and choosing which ones they defend against in order to look the best. You are new, so of course just like Cantrip you will have every chance to prove yourself to me. You have NOTHING to fear from me if you are town, Will, I never end up lynching new players when they are town - My eye is particularly honed for such play style types. Just keep playing, keep discussing, and if you are town you will be OK and there's no need to stress.
If you're scum, well...
Then our relationship gets a little bit more awkward.
I hope I have risen to the challenge of your expectation and do apologize for the wait. Are you doing OK? People are voted all the time in mafia and so far I am the only one voting you. Nothing to be nervous or annoyed about if you are town. I'm really just saying hello, scouting you out. I am an exceedingly prudent player. Got any other reads for us?
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Well, sorry for not posting recently. I've been a bit busy, but I'll do my best to participate more frequently.
I actually didn't quite understand what was being discussed between Cantrip and Sir Chris over my posts; too convoluted for me
By now, I don't find sufficient evidences to vote someone, but I acutally found particularly interesting that in #216 Rhand suddently jumps into Shadow's vote. Also, the conclusion over Shadow being town seemed suspicious, given it was not explained nor obvious. I could be wrong, of course.
It's actually apparently late to talk about posts this old, but at least it's some clue. Despite seeing some posts expressing confidence about Rhand's township, I'm willing to bet. But I may be convinced to take it back again, of course, since I'm kinda noob at this
This entire paragraph is as if it was written by two different people and I would like everyone's thoughts on what I am seeing. Says no reason to vote, but then lists something that really bothers him, then says can take it back. Not feeling a genuine town message here and if it is one good time for Will to learn how to play town.
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I’m not sure if I can distinguish new from scum, but Will’s posts have been giving me weird vibes indeed.
I get the not lynching Grape D1 sentiment, but I really think he’s scum.
He’s supposedly scumreading me, but he is answering my questions in a tone that suggests he is talking to town.
That is exactly what I was after, thanks Tom. That level of thirst is how I see Tubba's:
I'm totally most engaged when you ask me questions. Why don't you ask me a question. Question please.
Sort of thing.
Contrast my “thirstiness” with Silver’s “Nobody wants to play with me” from earlier in the day. Is it different and if so why?
His felt natural due to his urge to interact before going away on holidays and fit with his activity level. Yours was out of nowhere after being missing for a few days.
Grape, you’ve been within one to two degrees of separation in every game I’ve played. I don’t think you can sit there and say that lurking in the thread isn’t my meta. Feels bogus from you right now, you didn’t push me, just threw my name into the thread, kicked some dirt on it and moved on.
Well, sorry for not posting recently. I've been a bit busy, but I'll do my best to participate more frequently.
I actually didn't quite understand what was being discussed between Cantrip and Sir Chris over my posts; too convoluted for me
By now, I don't find sufficient evidences to vote someone, but I acutally found particularly interesting that in #216 Rhand suddently jumps into Shadow's vote. Also, the conclusion over Shadow being town seemed suspicious, given it was not explained nor obvious. I could be wrong, of course.
It's actually apparently late to talk about posts this old, but at least it's some clue. Despite seeing some posts expressing confidence about Rhand's township, I'm willing to bet. But I may be convinced to take it back again, of course, since I'm kinda noob at this
This entire paragraph is as if it was written by two different people and I would like everyone's thoughts on what I am seeing. Says no reason to vote, but then lists something that really bothers him, then says can take it back. Not feeling a genuine town message here and if it is one good time for Will to learn how to play town.
I mean, it kind of just feels standardly waffly for a new player to me. "I don't know what I'm doing guys but maybe it's Rhand because XX but I don't know for sure maybe I'm wrong" isn't outside of the new villager thought process in my experience.
As far as Will talking to Rhand like he's town while scum reading him, I do that often enough. Especially if I'm town because I can never be 100% sure someone is a wolf until they're dead (barring mechanical red checks, etc.) If Ruma were actually here right now to talk to I wouldn't be, like, rubbing it in his face that I think he's a wolf or anything like that.
But yeah, I recognize that I'm just making excuses for why he could be town and that it isn't all that persuasive. I'm just equally not persuaded he's a wolf by what's in the thread right now I guess.
Also apologies for the grammar and spelling in that reads list, I should ~not~ have been phone posting at 2:30 AM rofl
Thank you for the response, Sir Chris.
I beg to differ about something and I feel the need to explain.
Which exact things did I avoid talking about? I don't feel like I picked anything. I'm sorry if I did, actually. Thought the only remaining line against me was that "coach" stuff.
One of the things I prioritize as town is to answer everything. To make things clear.
I'm fine about people voting me, honestly. Just got surprised about the reaction of my vote. Thought the vote along with the post were normal considering the nature of the game. When I read your first response to my vote, I read as "wtf are you doing? Are you mad? This is not what you're supposed to do, just keep quiet" and that made me anxious indeed, but after reading things up I know you didn't say things of this sort at all.
As far as feline comparisons, I suggest using "caracal" for me. I mean, they purr but sometimes try to attack things. I love them.
About new reads: nothing for now. Soon, perhaps.
@Rhand
Mr Rhand, I'm open to change my vote in time if convinced, just like I said in the voting post.
UBRGrixis Shard: Grixis believes in a bold and impassioned search for satisfaction, perfection, and self expression. Those of Grixis colors have an eagerness to break the status quo and remake things in their own image. They disregard tradition and conventional approval, seeing them as unnecessary to achieve their goals, the well behaved rarely make history. Blue wants perfection. Black wants power. Red wants freedom.
@Cantrip
Who do you have your eye on right now? I want you to talk about someone other than Sir Chris or Cantripmancer.
I'm feeling a little disconnected because this weekend was unbelievable and I'm just now getting caught up. And while you guys obviously aren't too upset that I missed a few days, on other sites I:
• Got replaced out automatically in one game for not making five posts in the first 12 hours of a game.
• Got randed in to a game because three weeks ago I said I would sub if they needed a body, so I requested replacement there because no time.
• Missed the entire half of the last day of another game in which everything got solved without me (won, but, not because of anything I did).
• Held another game hostage for ~18 hours because all they were waiting on was an update from me on Night actions.
• Posted once in another game; that was my sole contribution for D1.
• Have no idea what's going on in my MAL game atm. Have something like 400 posts to catch up in.
So on the plus side, my self-induced insanity-by-stupidity of playing six games at once is better, and I'll have more time to contribute here. And I'm so grateful to have a site with players that understand that sometimes I just can't play for a day or two.
@Silver, why do you think no one wants to lynch Riku? All I have seen is a lot of neutrality on him.
I mean, pretty much everyone who commented on the RVS stuff I saw said something to the effect of "He can die but I don't think that makes him a wolf."
If people wanted to lunch him they would have voted him, but he didn't draw a single vote besides mine.
Do you think that intimates anything about Riku or the people who aren't voting him?
Quote from Silver »
@tom Yeah you were one. Vaimes is another. I'd have to go back through the thread to find the others (think there's at least one more) but that seems like a waste of time unless/until he flips red.
Did Tom ask a question that you're responding to here? I'm not finding it...?
"Coaching is one when player gives advice to another play as to how to vote or otherwise behave in a mafia game. This may be a town player disagreeing with another player regardless of their alignment, sometimes it is viewed as scum trying to give advice to another scum player since scum usually don't have access to their private chat during the day."
Nope. Not happening. I didn't even notice who was voting Rhand when I did it. The vote was all by myself, and I wanted to do it as a more reasoned vote rather than a random one, as it used to be when I declared Cantrip vote based on nothing.
Talking to other players is also against the rules, isn't it?
It's part of my personality going all in into a game and trying to be good at this. Also, I like to speculate. That's why my vote may have seemed forced.
Also cheers.
There are a couple of things that stand out to me here, but two questions:
1) @Will: Why aren't you paying attention to who's voting whom? That part's kind of important.
2) @Everyone else: Do you think "talking to other players is also against the rules, isn't it" comes from coaching?
Sir Chris is by all accounts a great player. His case against Will is not something I think a great player does.
I do like you having this thought.
You may live.
I like you for re-assessing Tubba this way, especially after making 368. I tend to be more suspicious and stubborn when I'm having a bad day, and I like that you were still willing to think about things.
@Shadow There were a few things, the first one that caught my eye was the way the he replied to your "why don't you trust Chris question?" because replying with the "I know he's wrong" isn't something that comes naturally for a certain type of scum. Newer players and weaker scum players love to use that sort of bravado but it's not something that comes as naturally for stronger more analytical players.
Uh what? You’re saying that a new or weak scum are more naturally able to make the reply he did, but since he’s a better player he is less likely to be able to make that reply? O.o
Quote from Grapefruit »
Then at the time I really liked his stuff on Will. Chris' responses are also solid but the way Cantrip dug into it felt like townie solving. It wasn't anything that felt like scum using it to launch some sort of agenda'd movement. The only action was curiosity.
I...disagree. Like, entirely. Not to say I’d lock Cantrip in as scum, but he literally started off with suggesting he expected Chris to be on him until kingdom come.
Yes that has been walked back and mostly resolved, but your description of his posting at the time just rings completely inaccurate.
Talk to me about Cantrip since then. Also can I get a read list from you?
@Cantrip: wasn't really a question but you sort of missed a whole side conversation somehow lol.
I said someone who told me Ruma might be a wolf but they didn't think it was good catch was probably a partner and tom said he was one of the players who did.
I ~think that answers your question, as well, but yeah if Ruma's a wolf there's a pretty good chance one of those players is a partner trying not to bus but leaving the door open for it in the future.
UBRGrixis Shard: Grixis believes in a bold and impassioned search for satisfaction, perfection, and self expression. Those of Grixis colors have an eagerness to break the status quo and remake things in their own image. They disregard tradition and conventional approval, seeing them as unnecessary to achieve their goals, the well behaved rarely make history. Blue wants perfection. Black wants power. Red wants freedom.
I’m not sure if I can distinguish new from scum, but Will’s posts have been giving me weird vibes indeed.
I get the not lynching Grape D1 sentiment, but I really think he’s scum.
He’s supposedly scumreading me, but he is answering my questions in a tone that suggests he is talking to town.
I save my biting sarcasm for scum reads or fools. And you're no fool. Anyway you continue to ask me questions, ignore my answers, and ignore my questions while pushing a paper thin case against me.
Grape, you’ve been within one to two degrees of separation in every game I’ve played. I don’t think you can sit there and say that lurking in the thread isn’t my meta. Feels bogus from you right now, you didn’t push me, just threw my name into the thread, kicked some dirt on it and moved on.
It's not the lurking that stood out. It was you begging people to ask you questions while you pinged a few at people. The two together feel contradictory. I know it's normal for you to want to be engaged, but usually that isn't paired with insightful questions directed at people this early.
@Shadow There were a few things, the first one that caught my eye was the way the he replied to your "why don't you trust Chris question?" because replying with the "I know he's wrong" isn't something that comes naturally for a certain type of scum. Newer players and weaker scum players love to use that sort of bravado but it's not something that comes as naturally for stronger more analytical players.
Uh what? You’re saying that a new or weak scum are more naturally able to make the reply he did, but since he’s a better player he is less likely to be able to make that reply? O.o
Not less likely to be able to, but less likely to think of doing it.
Quote from Grapefruit »
Then at the time I really liked his stuff on Will. Chris' responses are also solid but the way Cantrip dug into it felt like townie solving. It wasn't anything that felt like scum using it to launch some sort of agenda'd movement. The only action was curiosity.
I...disagree. Like, entirely. Not to say I’d lock Cantrip in as scum, but he literally started off with suggesting he expected Chris to be on him until kingdom come.
Yes that has been walked back and mostly resolved, but your description of his posting at the time just rings completely inaccurate.
Talk to me about Cantrip since then. Also can I get a read list from you?
What does Cantrip's read on Chris have to do with my liking his solving on Will? Also I like the fact that Cantrip thought Chris would death tunnel. Makes me think he isn't scum because most possible teams would have a buddy who could tell him Chris isn't in fact a death tunneler as town.
My reads are mostly mush at the moment. It's something like:
Me
Vaimes/Cantrip/Chris
way too big of a pile
Tubba
Rhand
Riku ghosting isn't a good look and I'd move there but I'm pretty sure Rhand is scum here and prefer to stay where I am. I'd completely forgotten LnG was in the game till making this so I can't list him as scum even though people I trust are pushing him.
I'd completely forgotten LnG was in the game till making this so I can't list him as scum even though people I trust are pushing him.
And who would that be, Mr Thunder Down Under?
You, Silver, and Shadow. I don't have town reads on you but I trust all of your judgement and think it's unlikely you're collectively in on dunking on LnG together.
I feel very disconnected from this game and I'm not sure why. I don't think it's an effort thing, but it could be. I think it might be because the main topics of conversation are nowhere near being top wagons here. It just feels weird to have two moderately sized wagons on people who aren't being talked about much. Based on level of discussion I'd expect the top wagons to be on some combination of Cantrip, Will, Ruma, and me. And that's just very far from true and it's strange.
No one is expressing strong feelings about LnG and I'm just about the only one focused on Rhand. I think there is too much "I don't want to do x D1" happening. People need to just push who they think is scum. I don't want people to hide behind past behavior to avoid pushing me while shading me. Aka vote me you cowards or give up the rock.
I think lngrr's early pursuit of tubba felt predatory, and how he relates tubba to me is pretty hard avoidance of actually talking about me while forcing a scumread.
Lngrr decided to start talking about differing grape metas without waiting to see which appeared in this game. Basically not even a flirt just a wolf whistle
Hes also spent most of his proactive posts encouraging [someone vs someone] rather than pushing [something].
Counterpoint: I don't really care about lunching specifically a wolf on D1. I care about getting accurate town reads in a handful of player and putting the wolves in a box where they have to break the town circle to generate enough mislunches to win.
So, yes, apathy of a sort because my reads are apparently very consensus or something. Mildly scary on D1 that there's not been much push back on any of my town reads; it means either the wolves are all very passive and not inclined to power wolf or that my town circle is pretty dirty. Sort of leaning towards the first at the moment, obviously, but yeah I could just be bad of course.
Like. I half expected to get interrogated over that reads list I posted, I blatantly said two of my wolf leans were me sheeping other people and no one batted an eyelash. Mostly just went "yep, that sure is a reads list" and carried on what they were doing before.
That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about when I say no one is engaging me / trying to figure me out. It's like all the villagers this game either think I'm out of my wolf range but haven't explicitly said that yet or they just don't actually care about forcing interactions with me to get an actual read because they think I'm self resolving or something. Which, if it's the latter thing I suppose I'm flattered but it's still ~weird~.
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I'm totally most engaged when you ask me questions. Why don't you ask me a question. Question please.
Sort of thing.
Vote Lng
Prolly not gonna be around to Monday. I see you Grape.
Shin'sVaimes attempt is the sketchiest of bunch. His "I'm tired of Grape dying D1" posturing just felt off to me. But then again I could totally see Shin feeling that way after a scum game where he had to push me over a buddy D1... shrugI may have talked myself into a Vaimes town lean.
@Grape: who has been pocketing you?
@Tubba, thoughts on Chris not really talking about/interacting with Tom even when that was pointed out to him?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
If people wanted to lunch him they would have voted him, but he didn't draw a single vote besides mine.
@tom Yeah you were one. Vaimes is another. I'd have to go back through the thread to find the others (think there's at least one more) but that seems like a waste of time unless/until he flips red.
Lngrr and Shin making my RB/JK hot take into more than it was, Lngrr took a second look and moved on, Shin didn’t, and didn’t seem to acknowledge it had been discussed. Can’t ask Shin about it, but combining that with Vaimes sorta calling me out with all bark and no bite as it were is making me side eye the slot.
But also I was saying the same thing in a different way, I believe. What I was saying was that his words came from a stance of someone much more confident of the game of mafia than the rest of the tone. That's what I was trying to get at with aggressive. Admittedly my mind did not leap to coached while looking over it but coached is probably a good way to describe it.
Especially with "I didn't mean to come off aggressive" I know bud, I know you weren't intending that.
Basically to rephrase he made a judgment call that someone new would never naturally make. Coached? Maybe. But his phrasing was not newbie town at all, and I love me some newbie town.
As for Tom, I proved last town game of mine I am not great at reading him and he seems ok so I see no reason to dig into him. If someone wants to have a problem with him present the case but it is weird to say I've ignored him when I gave an AOK for today note on him fairly early on.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Contrast my “thirstiness” with Silver’s “Nobody wants to play with me” from earlier in the day. Is it different and if so why?
Votecount 1.5
Rhand (3) - Vaimes (#299), Grapefruit21 (#300), Will-98 (#329)
LnGrrrR (3) - tomsloger (#144), Silvercrys3467 (#348), shadowlancerx (#353)
Sir Chris (1) - Cantripmancer (#230)
tomsloger (1) - LnGrrrR (#153)
Grapefruit21 (1) - Rhand (#268)
Will-98 (1) - Sir Chris (#332)
Not Voting: Rumanshi, Tubba Fett
With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch!
Or, like, voting them?
Also why does Chris catch your eye more than Will looking coached?
You...
a) are just pissed off because you think I behaved in a way I should not and it was unpolite or
b) suspect I'm scum for doing so?
I don't understand exactly which one of those is what's happening. Can you confirm?
Also, just wanted to clarify that being judgemental was what I thought the game was all about. Cheers
Best MTG colour test ever: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/8905d5/what_kind_of_mage_would_you_be_test_your_colors/
UBR Grixis Shard: Grixis believes in a bold and impassioned search for satisfaction, perfection, and self expression. Those of Grixis colors have an eagerness to break the status quo and remake things in their own image. They disregard tradition and conventional approval, seeing them as unnecessary to achieve their goals, the well behaved rarely make history. Blue wants perfection. Black wants power. Red wants freedom.
Does that mean what I think it does?
lol
Googleing it, just a sec
Best MTG colour test ever: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/8905d5/what_kind_of_mage_would_you_be_test_your_colors/
UBR Grixis Shard: Grixis believes in a bold and impassioned search for satisfaction, perfection, and self expression. Those of Grixis colors have an eagerness to break the status quo and remake things in their own image. They disregard tradition and conventional approval, seeing them as unnecessary to achieve their goals, the well behaved rarely make history. Blue wants perfection. Black wants power. Red wants freedom.
Nope. Not happening. I didn't even notice who was voting Rhand when I did it. The vote was all by myself, and I wanted to do it as a more reasoned vote rather than a random one, as it used to be when I declared Cantrip vote based on nothing.
Talking to other players is also against the rules, isn't it?
It's part of my personality going all in into a game and trying to be good at this. Also, I like to speculate. That's why my vote may have seemed forced.
Also cheers.
Best MTG colour test ever: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/8905d5/what_kind_of_mage_would_you_be_test_your_colors/
UBR Grixis Shard: Grixis believes in a bold and impassioned search for satisfaction, perfection, and self expression. Those of Grixis colors have an eagerness to break the status quo and remake things in their own image. They disregard tradition and conventional approval, seeing them as unnecessary to achieve their goals, the well behaved rarely make history. Blue wants perfection. Black wants power. Red wants freedom.
ShinVaimes off the top of my head.His felt natural due to his urge to interact before going away on holidays and fit with his activity level. Yours was out of nowhere after being missing for a few days.
-
Today sucked and I don't really feel like talking to people. Mostly just scrolled to see if I was mentioned.
Man, this is fun.
You may live.
It feels like a blanket statement to me.
Well that's because it was a blanket statement. with these things it's often a feel or stray post. But I can give you the bullet points. LnG's entrance that's been widely discussed but felt like he was trying to get in my good books. Cantrip and Chris both felt like they were trying to get me onside in their wall off. Neither was committing to a full town read but they were both handling me in a friendly way. Then there was the Shin one I discussed above and Vaimes kind of continued it with his remarks about actually reading me/not wanting me dead D1.
Then I'm just constantly paranoid of Tom/Shadow trying to pocket me at all times regardless of context.
Silvercrys
Chris
Vaimes
tom
Tubba
Grapefruit
Shadow
Cantrip
Will
Rhand
LnGrrr
Ruma
Hi, I'm town.
Chris's effort posts mainly show effort rather than that he's a villager, but it's the bits where he says he's excited and fired up to hunt wolves and play the game because he doesn't want to disappoint Shadow that make the posts go. His play feels entirely agendaless / uninformed.
I was lightly townreading Shin for stuff he did before I went V/LA, think it was mostly the sass. Vaimes clearing Tubba of the D1 lunch is kind of weird here if he's a wolf, defending low hanging fruit isn't really something I associate with his wolf game. Guess they could be partners but
tom is tom. Actually no though, I liked how he pushed back against Grape saying he needed to try to make his thoughts clear through the gimmick since it isn't really a gimmick, and most of his thoughts are like, "sure, yes, this is a reasonable stance to have on this".
Tubba is some kind of gut read based on tone after I said I wasn't going to be able to tone read him. Really though, just like body-of-work I don't think he's playing with partners.
Grapefruit I was townreading for... some reason, I can't remember what and the read feels stale now. I'll iso him eventually and figure out what the reason was and whether I think it's good enough.
Shadow is a very good and reasonable wolf that I am not equipped to catch. If he is a wolf he has partners and I'm going to lunch them first; I just don't feel like I'll ever really "get there" on him either way.
Cantrip is in sort of the same boat; his walls, as I already said, are very good, but they don't really. convince me that he's town.
Will is a conflicted, confused soul, torn between openly howling and being a quiet villager.
I'm sheeping other people on Rhand/LnGrrr.
Ruma is a wolf. Probably.
Ruma seems like a bit of a dead fish at the moment, which aren't usually the best people to go after day one as it kills movement. Will has yet to move the meter for me.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Even if you didn't want to "push it" imediately, I don't see why you'd lie on your reasons to vote, there.
Hence,I don't know if your coaching theory is really sincere. You focused on saying my wording was aggressive (the "obvious" stuff). The speech seemed to rather be attacking my "rights" as a new player.
Can you clarify, please?
Best MTG colour test ever: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/8905d5/what_kind_of_mage_would_you_be_test_your_colors/
UBR Grixis Shard: Grixis believes in a bold and impassioned search for satisfaction, perfection, and self expression. Those of Grixis colors have an eagerness to break the status quo and remake things in their own image. They disregard tradition and conventional approval, seeing them as unnecessary to achieve their goals, the well behaved rarely make history. Blue wants perfection. Black wants power. Red wants freedom.
Best MTG colour test ever: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/8905d5/what_kind_of_mage_would_you_be_test_your_colors/
UBR Grixis Shard: Grixis believes in a bold and impassioned search for satisfaction, perfection, and self expression. Those of Grixis colors have an eagerness to break the status quo and remake things in their own image. They disregard tradition and conventional approval, seeing them as unnecessary to achieve their goals, the well behaved rarely make history. Blue wants perfection. Black wants power. Red wants freedom.
If I was being coached I probably wouldn't just realize you guys were pointing this out at #365 as I did. I'd defend myself way before that.
I don't know all the expressions used on mafia, so it didn't occur to me you guys were theorizing about coaching, since I thought this word meant something harmless. I also read quickly the posts that I find convoluted, so it didn't catch my eye.
Anyway, probably not talking about that anymore. Sir Chriss doesn't seem to be willing to answer my questions or debate over that.
Best MTG colour test ever: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/8905d5/what_kind_of_mage_would_you_be_test_your_colors/
UBR Grixis Shard: Grixis believes in a bold and impassioned search for satisfaction, perfection, and self expression. Those of Grixis colors have an eagerness to break the status quo and remake things in their own image. They disregard tradition and conventional approval, seeing them as unnecessary to achieve their goals, the well behaved rarely make history. Blue wants perfection. Black wants power. Red wants freedom.
Anyway my original vote was not placed on a "bad" paradigm but rather a paradigm where I did not believe you to be credible in the honesty of your attack. I believe you mentioned something about me not liking you or getting pissed but I tend to be fairly calm when playing mafia, if a tad excitable.
Your post had language in it that both threw some serious shade and made some assumptions about logic (which is fine in a vacuum) but also was very hesitant at the same time. It was like, when I was reading it, I was seeing a hint a tiger before in the blink of an eye you were once again a mewling kitten.
Someone else described this as coached, not me. I followed up with "Coached could fit what I am seeing" or some such. My problem is in post tonal issues which seems like you have a sharp mind but you hedge using your newness, which came off a bit manipulative.
So when someone said coached I thought to myself "that also makes sense to what I saw, so no reason to disagree as it is a valid line of thought" although not the main thrust of my argument. So I find it interesting that is what you latch onto. It makes me think you are scum but were not coached. Which suits my scum theory just fine. One of the hallmarks of scum is having several arguments against them and picking and choosing which ones they defend against in order to look the best. You are new, so of course just like Cantrip you will have every chance to prove yourself to me. You have NOTHING to fear from me if you are town, Will, I never end up lynching new players when they are town - My eye is particularly honed for such play style types. Just keep playing, keep discussing, and if you are town you will be OK and there's no need to stress.
If you're scum, well...
Then our relationship gets a little bit more awkward.
I hope I have risen to the challenge of your expectation and do apologize for the wait. Are you doing OK? People are voted all the time in mafia and so far I am the only one voting you. Nothing to be nervous or annoyed about if you are town. I'm really just saying hello, scouting you out. I am an exceedingly prudent player. Got any other reads for us?
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
This entire paragraph is as if it was written by two different people and I would like everyone's thoughts on what I am seeing. Says no reason to vote, but then lists something that really bothers him, then says can take it back. Not feeling a genuine town message here and if it is one good time for Will to learn how to play town.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I get the not lynching Grape D1 sentiment, but I really think he’s scum.
He’s supposedly scumreading me, but he is answering my questions in a tone that suggests he is talking to town.
Grape, you’ve been within one to two degrees of separation in every game I’ve played. I don’t think you can sit there and say that lurking in the thread isn’t my meta. Feels bogus from you right now, you didn’t push me, just threw my name into the thread, kicked some dirt on it and moved on.
As far as Will talking to Rhand like he's town while scum reading him, I do that often enough. Especially if I'm town because I can never be 100% sure someone is a wolf until they're dead (barring mechanical red checks, etc.) If Ruma were actually here right now to talk to I wouldn't be, like, rubbing it in his face that I think he's a wolf or anything like that.
But yeah, I recognize that I'm just making excuses for why he could be town and that it isn't all that persuasive. I'm just equally not persuaded he's a wolf by what's in the thread right now I guess.
Also apologies for the grammar and spelling in that reads list, I should ~not~ have been phone posting at 2:30 AM rofl
I beg to differ about something and I feel the need to explain.
Which exact things did I avoid talking about? I don't feel like I picked anything. I'm sorry if I did, actually. Thought the only remaining line against me was that "coach" stuff.
One of the things I prioritize as town is to answer everything. To make things clear.
I'm fine about people voting me, honestly. Just got surprised about the reaction of my vote. Thought the vote along with the post were normal considering the nature of the game. When I read your first response to my vote, I read as "wtf are you doing? Are you mad? This is not what you're supposed to do, just keep quiet" and that made me anxious indeed, but after reading things up I know you didn't say things of this sort at all.
As far as feline comparisons, I suggest using "caracal" for me. I mean, they purr but sometimes try to attack things. I love them.
About new reads: nothing for now. Soon, perhaps.
@Rhand
Mr Rhand, I'm open to change my vote in time if convinced, just like I said in the voting post.
Best MTG colour test ever: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/8905d5/what_kind_of_mage_would_you_be_test_your_colors/
UBR Grixis Shard: Grixis believes in a bold and impassioned search for satisfaction, perfection, and self expression. Those of Grixis colors have an eagerness to break the status quo and remake things in their own image. They disregard tradition and conventional approval, seeing them as unnecessary to achieve their goals, the well behaved rarely make history. Blue wants perfection. Black wants power. Red wants freedom.
• Got replaced out automatically in one game for not making five posts in the first 12 hours of a game.
• Got randed in to a game because three weeks ago I said I would sub if they needed a body, so I requested replacement there because no time.
• Missed the entire half of the last day of another game in which everything got solved without me (won, but, not because of anything I did).
• Held another game hostage for ~18 hours because all they were waiting on was an update from me on Night actions.
• Posted once in another game; that was my sole contribution for D1.
• Have no idea what's going on in my MAL game atm. Have something like 400 posts to catch up in.
So on the plus side, my self-induced insanity-by-stupidity of playing six games at once is better, and I'll have more time to contribute here. And I'm so grateful to have a site with players that understand that sometimes I just can't play for a day or two.
tl;dr: I'll get back to you on that question.
Do you think that intimates anything about Riku or the people who aren't voting him?
Did Tom ask a question that you're responding to here? I'm not finding it...?
@Tubba: You're assuming scum have daychat, then?
Yikes! You haven't been doing so good healthwise; take care of yourself!
There are a couple of things that stand out to me here, but two questions:
1) @Will: Why aren't you paying attention to who's voting whom? That part's kind of important.
2) @Everyone else: Do you think "talking to other players is also against the rules, isn't it" comes from coaching?
I like you for re-assessing Tubba this way, especially after making 368. I tend to be more suspicious and stubborn when I'm having a bad day, and I like that you were still willing to think about things.
Gah. Tom.
@KilljoyMod: Riku hasn't posted in ~5 days? Is he still playing?
This has been a short catch-up post by Cantripmancer. More to follow, hopefully this afternoon, after I check in on my MAL game.
Yes that has been walked back and mostly resolved, but your description of his posting at the time just rings completely inaccurate.
Talk to me about Cantrip since then. Also can I get a read list from you?
@Cantrip: dude...don’t overdo it man.
I said someone who told me Ruma might be a wolf but they didn't think it was good catch was probably a partner and tom said he was one of the players who did.
I ~think that answers your question, as well, but yeah if Ruma's a wolf there's a pretty good chance one of those players is a partner trying not to bus but leaving the door open for it in the future.
Getting there too
Figured it was too early by then, and it wouldn't change the vote at the time.
Best MTG colour test ever: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/8905d5/what_kind_of_mage_would_you_be_test_your_colors/
UBR Grixis Shard: Grixis believes in a bold and impassioned search for satisfaction, perfection, and self expression. Those of Grixis colors have an eagerness to break the status quo and remake things in their own image. They disregard tradition and conventional approval, seeing them as unnecessary to achieve their goals, the well behaved rarely make history. Blue wants perfection. Black wants power. Red wants freedom.
I save my biting sarcasm for scum reads or fools. And you're no fool. Anyway you continue to ask me questions, ignore my answers, and ignore my questions while pushing a paper thin case against me.
It's not the lurking that stood out. It was you begging people to ask you questions while you pinged a few at people. The two together feel contradictory. I know it's normal for you to want to be engaged, but usually that isn't paired with insightful questions directed at people this early.
Not less likely to be able to, but less likely to think of doing it.
What does Cantrip's read on Chris have to do with my liking his solving on Will? Also I like the fact that Cantrip thought Chris would death tunnel. Makes me think he isn't scum because most possible teams would have a buddy who could tell him Chris isn't in fact a death tunneler as town.
My reads are mostly mush at the moment. It's something like:
Me
Vaimes/Cantrip/Chris
way too big of a pile
Tubba
Rhand
Riku ghosting isn't a good look and I'd move there but I'm pretty sure Rhand is scum here and prefer to stay where I am. I'd completely forgotten LnG was in the game till making this so I can't list him as scum even though people I trust are pushing him.
You, Silver, and Shadow. I don't have town reads on you but I trust all of your judgement and think it's unlikely you're collectively in on dunking on LnG together.
Blah... My head isn't in this game.
No one is expressing strong feelings about LnG and I'm just about the only one focused on Rhand. I think there is too much "I don't want to do x D1" happening. People need to just push who they think is scum. I don't want people to hide behind past behavior to avoid pushing me while shading me. Aka vote me you cowards or give up the rock.
So, yes, apathy of a sort because my reads are apparently very consensus or something. Mildly scary on D1 that there's not been much push back on any of my town reads; it means either the wolves are all very passive and not inclined to power wolf or that my town circle is pretty dirty. Sort of leaning towards the first at the moment, obviously, but yeah I could just be bad of course.
That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about when I say no one is engaging me / trying to figure me out. It's like all the villagers this game either think I'm out of my wolf range but haven't explicitly said that yet or they just don't actually care about forcing interactions with me to get an actual read because they think I'm self resolving or something. Which, if it's the latter thing I suppose I'm flattered but it's still ~weird~.