Rhand if he's been offline for 5 days maybe we shouldn't lynch someone who may have other reasons to not be doing a great job.
Like I am...really annoyed right now, Rhand, and in case any of you guys forgot it isn't a good idea to annoy me. STOP SLEEP WALKING THROUGH GAMES.
WAKE THE **** UP, EVERYONE.
Like LHF lynches just... piss me off so much. Silver has NOT STOOD to account for any of his BS. Itr is all BS. It is misdirection, placation, and not how a heavily active player should be influencing the game. But all of you are so CHECKED OUT and TUNNELING ON SOMEONE WHO HASN'T LOGGED IN NEARLY A WEEK to remember that even if Lng is scum, there is more than one scum and my days are often quite limited in this world.
Unfortunately for me, mafia is a team game. I cannot do things on my own. Except in a recent game elsehwere where I was made King day 1 and lynched scum, that was awesome. But that's probably not in the works here.
So how about we all collectively realize Silver is not doing a great job and squeeze him?
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Like Silver has by far the most posts and what has he done with them??? Nothing of value. Then you've got rhand just going "hurr guess I'll just put him into claim range, then acknowledge he isn't likely to claim since the dude is checked out but hey it is okay, let's just do our day 1 lynch and not act as if we have to sort out everyone eventually anyway"
Like... do you think if you press people and make them explain themselves day 1 that information will be of no value later? Hello? Shoving a near idle guy into a ditch isn't exactly doing much for town's chances of winning outside of the vacuum that he may be scum.
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Well Chris there’s clearly no interest in Silver. And since no one seems to see what I see in Grape, I think Lngr is our best shot at lynching scum toDay.
How about this Rhand. How about you and I make a deal right now. Ok? Right now. 7 to lynch. Only 7. I have my weekend free and I am feeling better. You vote Silver, and you give the best town player you've ever seen 48 hours to try to get the job done and if I can't we can go back to Lng.
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I don’t even want to lynch Lngr that badly. I want to lynch Grape.
We are in a similar spot here. You’re convinced Silver is scum, I’m convinced Grape is and everyone else is going for the afk guy.
Tell you what. You vote for Silver, and I'll look at Grape right now. I will ISO Grape right the **** now if you vote Silver. Give and take. Compromise. Whatcha say?
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Just skimmed his iso. The dude hasn’t adapted his reads whatsoever in 5 pages, constantly talking about someone who wasn’t posting, putting him in a team with the other guy that wasn’t posting.
Yeh Silver is probably scum. But so is Grape.
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How he talks about me Rhand throughout day 1 makes me lean town on Grape, Rhand. Let me explain he starts early on by saying:
I think it makes me feel better about Rhand even though his vote was awful. Not sure on LnG yet. Chris is talking like he's broken the tension but he hasn't done anything yet.
I like the bolded from a town perspective because the annoyance here seems genuine and it is a very weird thing to note from a scum perspective. He's taking exception to my leadership desire that he feels I have yet to earn which is a natural progression to how Grape really hasn't liked me this day in various ways instead of being one note and boring about it. He even thinks you and I could be buddies, and I feel this all has evolved rather naturally because it started with a tremor of annoyance about how I was trying to impact the day and it blossomed to furthering suspicion in what seems organic.
I also don't think scum Grape revisists Shadow's question about who he'd shoot and change to Tom. That reeks of town just randomly thinking of the game and going "hm wait, Tom is totally better." It also fits my town profile of Grape as someone who is very try hard in his effort towards solving that he'd think it important enough to re-assess that situation.
Rhand, I tend to like to engage with people a lot because I am good at direct interactions. I have a good BS detector when people approach me about ... me. I know how I operate well enough to know when things rang true and when they do not. God I didn't even notice because I've been a little out of it lately but Grapefruit has made some excellent posts about me. Really robust, beautiful thought patterns that show a proper paranoia and fear of someone like me that's measured, not over the top or sinister.
I don't agree with his conclusions, granted, but I get the strong impression that he has been thinking a lot about my alignment and it comes off as genuine.
I have ISO'd him, from your perspective I think I understand your concerns (not all of his logic quite adds up, he has used flawed thoughts a bit) but it comes off as mistakes rather than holes in his armor.
I will respectfully ask that you table Grape for the time being and help me with Silver. I assure you if Grape is scum he will not fool me forever, no one does. Except Pizzaguy that one game. That was impressive.
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Chris, I don’t want to lynch the top poster not because he’s the top poster, but because he looks like his town self and doesn’t look like his scum self. No, he’s not outside of his range, but he’s not really in it. If you’re going to stop the Lng wagon, fine, give me someone worth lynching today then.
Using online status is actually not really okay, so let’s not talk about that.
That being said, if the only argument for not lynching Lng is “he’s not here” I’m not whelmed.
Shadow-kun, he has had two wolf games. You are smart enough to know the issue of such low sample size, yes? Especially for someone who appears to be intelligent like Silver who after two games cites his own meta. But it isn't that, it's how he doesn't really have a reason to town read me so heavily. You were whelmed by his reasoning for having me top town read, Shadow? Really? Are you sure? Because let me make one thing clear, my old friend. I don't need your permission. I am asking you to prove you are town by doing the right thing. Failure to do so... well.. has consequences when I am done butchering Silver.
Metaphorically, of course.
Also what's the argument for LNG again? I've read his posts here and there and yes I admit I am not opposed but... I worry about group think. I worry about "hold on, he hasn't posted in 5 days he needs to be replaced probably." Silver cried about me saying that about Ruma and we got LW, who has been a busy bee.
Also I was just saying that he hasn't posted in a long time, I have no need to use technical arguments.
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Further, I will say with no doubt in my heart towns who only about the next step in front of them don't tend to do well. Pressing Silver, a wolf who does not have much experience, does us little harm if he is town. Do you not think I can ferret out his alignment correctly, Shadow? So little faith in little old me? As I told others if they are town and I turn my gaze to them they based on over a decade of playing have very little to fear from me.
I love the resistance to Silver. It's really getting these old bones jittering with excitement. Oh my, what a beautiful game mafia is.
Oppose away, let's see if I've still got some of my magic left.
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He has two wolf games and some other games where he’s replaced out. I would be pretty surprised if he got his pm here and said “yes, I’m going to top post as a wolf and really make this my breakout game”. If he’s got a cheerleader that would certainly help, but it would surprise me.
I will slightly confess that I still have niggling doubts about you, so when you go after someone I like it has me worried. It took pressure on you to get you here, and while I’ve liked you since you’ve been here, as you say, you don’t have all those awards for nothing.
So let’s dance on silver; show me the post in response to you that you think most showcases his scumminess. Show me the post before you engaged him that most raised your eyebrows.
(I recognize you’re working on Grape as well, do what you need to do, I’ll be in and out at best through eod)
I am quite confident in Lng being a wolf from his posts, kinda sound like Silver here, but hey, I think there's a stronger case for lynching Lng, then his case of, "I believe this is what's happening" nonsense from his Riku push
also Hi, ask me questions plz, I have long work hours for the next 8 days, and I'm not going to blow up the thread like I've done in the past, trying to solve the whole game day 1
Rhand if he's been offline for 5 days maybe we shouldn't lynch someone who may have other reasons to not be doing a great job.
Like I am...really annoyed right now, Rhand, and in case any of you guys forgot it isn't a good idea to annoy me. STOP SLEEP WALKING THROUGH GAMES.
WAKE THE **** UP, EVERYONE.
Like LHF lynches just... piss me off so much. Silver has NOT STOOD to account for any of his BS. Itr is all BS. It is misdirection, placation, and not how a heavily active player should be influencing the game. But all of you are so CHECKED OUT and TUNNELING ON SOMEONE WHO HASN'T LOGGED IN NEARLY A WEEK to remember that even if Lng is scum, there is more than one scum and my days are often quite limited in this world.
Unfortunately for me, mafia is a team game. I cannot do things on my own. Except in a recent game elsehwere where I was made King day 1 and lynched scum, that was awesome. But that's probably not in the works here.
So how about we all collectively realize Silver is not doing a great job and squeeze him?
Are you doing a great job right now Chris? What are you doing that I haven't done? I've been begging for literally anyone to talk to me about stuff and people refused engagement with me and now I'm a wolf because they didn't want to talk to me about what I was seeing?
I *completely* accounted for my read on Ruma and you ******* ignored it, I told Last I would talk about Rhand when I got to a computer (which I'm not at yet, for the record) because I wanted to pull quotes and I'm literally not doing that on mobile.
And whether Ruma is LHF or not doesn't change his role PM. It's not like I've been voting Ruma the entire game and refusing to vote elsewhere. He sure is low hanging fruit but I *specifically* said I didn't think he was a good lynch for momentum reasons. Even if I'm *right* lynching him doesn't really solve the game and if I'm *wrong* we're just going to replay Day 1 again.
It's the same ******* thing every. single. game. where some all-star whose ego is too big for their britches gets it into their head that I'm a wolf because of my ******* tone or because I don't have strong reads on people I want to lynch or because I'm using sarcasm.
Get off your high ******* horse. You wanted to dance Chris? Here I ******* am. This is what you asked for.
Whoever said I was putting Ruma with another lurker is flat out wrong, by the way, I said it might be but Ruma didn't really interact with anyone except two people I thought were villagers. The fact that I think there's one in Rhand/LnGrrr and one in my town reads if he's a wolf is independent (except that both of my bills, Cantrip and Shadow, are probably not wolves with him and I don't think the tram is exactly Wisp/Rhand/LnGrrr).
You're literally accusing me of only going after LHF after I cleared Will and Shinichi for the day.
**** me, maybe it's just Chris and he's playing his ass off.
I'm going to step back from the thread for a while. Should have my laptop in an hour or so and I'll attempt to actually play the way I've been trying to instead of... like this.
Rhand if he's been offline for 5 days maybe we shouldn't lynch someone who may have other reasons to not be doing a great job.
Like I am...really annoyed right now, Rhand, and in case any of you guys forgot it isn't a good idea to annoy me. STOP SLEEP WALKING THROUGH GAMES.
WAKE THE **** UP, EVERYONE.
Like LHF lynches just... piss me off so much. Silver has NOT STOOD to account for any of his BS. Itr is all BS. It is misdirection, placation, and not how a heavily active player should be influencing the game. But all of you are so CHECKED OUT and TUNNELING ON SOMEONE WHO HASN'T LOGGED IN NEARLY A WEEK to remember that even if Lng is scum, there is more than one scum and my days are often quite limited in this world.
Unfortunately for me, mafia is a team game. I cannot do things on my own. Except in a recent game elsehwere where I was made King day 1 and lynched scum, that was awesome. But that's probably not in the works here.
So how about we all collectively realize Silver is not doing a great job and squeeze him?
Are you doing a great job right now Chris? What are you doing that I haven't done? I've been begging for literally anyone to talk to me about stuff and people refused engagement with me and now I'm a wolf because they didn't want to talk to me about what I was seeing?
What kind of bull***** is that?
I got someone to vote my top suspect of the day, unlike you.
Let's see what you've got, Silver.
Also tonight is date night for me, so not so many messages for a bit but I'll be around.
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Anyway, I am not voting for you because of Ruma. I am not even voting you because of who you suspect. That got me looking at you, that got me tilting my head and and thinking about what you were up to. But boy are you giving off MAJOR "Lynched for the wrong reasons" vibes right now.
Also I am not a big fan of people's meta, in case no one figured this out yet. Never have. Never has served me well. It's a poor tactic because it assumes predictive behavior which is hard.
Anyway, to be honest... at most I am at 7/10 right now. Sickness has gripped me this week (infection + micro seizures) so I am hampered. Which is why I found your town read of me, that confidence, so.. weird. I like that Shadow has doubts about me. My meta is a tangled web of confusion and death traps. My range is almost entirely overlapped town or scum, and really I am such a monstrous player that game state is how you read me, not looking at me.
GoT, town was getting their ass kicked while I was alive and I was just a ghost basically. Hm, not a good sign.
Death in the Family as soon as I came in I pulled a town member from death and instead shanked a scum in fiery fashion, and murdered scum until town didn't let me do that anymore. Oh, town.
Maybe LNG is scum. I don't know, he's been a lump I get the temptation to just pile on the lump and move on. I get it! However, what I dare to suggestr my fellow members of town is we try to do better than just go for a lynch and instead we hold people to account for when they don't play well. Silver is admitting left and right that he isn't playing well but yet now he resorts to OMGUS of "oh man maybe it is Chris!" when he has admitted no less than three times that my points are in many ways valid even if some are not. He hasn't presented the connective tissue to go from "chris is town and wrong" to "oh man chris kept at it, scum I guess."
So I press. I urge others to press. When you want to be good at mafia you don't do it alone, and if people don't listen you make them listen. You take up thread space. You don't let it go. You promise Rhand to iso Grape ON THE SPOT if he votes for your suspect. You make deals. You try.
Silver you didn't try very hard because I don't think you cared because you're scum.
And if you're not, prove it.
Welcome to Chris giving a ****, the water is shallow down here.
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Game of Thrones is the only data point I have for scum!Chris other than urban legends.
I'm not at lock-town-never-lynching you, because there are basically zero circumstances I would do that barring mechanical evidence on D1. But one of the two of us was almost always the N1 kill if you're town so I figured I would write you off for the Day. Tom, Shadow, Cantrip, and Rhand can be paranoia lunched and frankly, while they're all good players they don't usually hellmurder wolves. The other players (LnGrrr, Shinichi, Ruma, Will) either generally post in ways I consider to be wolfy and often get mislunched in games I'm spectating or are new players. I.e. the low hanging fruit.
So my question I guess is:
In a 12 player game with ~probably 3 wolves, do you think a list of 4 names plucked out of a hat randomly is likely to contain zero wolves?
If you agree that at least one of those players is likely to be a wolf, wouldn't you want to sort them while we have mislunches available? That's sort of where I was coming from to start with. You and I will probably be dead by D3 or D4 at the latest if we're town because I will clear myself after the first red flip and stand a decent chance of catching the rest of the wolves off of it. And you just because yeah, you're you.
And then you said the stuff about not wanting to disappoint shadow and that read really genuinely to me, like I said. You're probably capable of posting that as a wolf but you seemed excited to catch and lunch wolves and you have had every excuse to stop playing and you just don't. Maybe I'm bad for townreading you for that but lolme then.
You're my top town, but my reads are pretty thin overall and always have been on D1. I need a red flip or at least some kind of mechanical information to do my best work. I think the Ruma RVS read is some of my best work on D1 ~ever and the fact you're still entirely ignoring it because you have paranoia about the way I'm not-even-strongly-townreading you apparently is beyond frustrating.
All I have right now is a bunch of leans with Ruma at the bottom and you at the top. You're a "tier" above tom, etc. because I don't have any strong specific reason to believe they're town, they just ~feel~ towny and have made one or two good posts.
And to be frank, this whole you thinking I'm a wolf because I'm appeasing you or whatever; what am I supposed to do as a villager here, then? I told you specifically what problem I had with Ruma and you ignored it. I tried explaining my thought process and I'm appeasing you. You've boxed me in so I'm a wolf no matter what I do, and I tried to ignore it and do my thing but you're flagrantly ignoring the facts of the game to push this stupid paranoia lunch when you could be lunching actual wolves or doing something actually useful with the 48 hours you think you have left in the game.
Aaaamd that's it. I'm going to write some stuff about Rhand now.
So, Rhand. Like I just said I don't ~generally~ have strong reads on D1 so if you're expecting me to like, dunk him or something. Heh. That isn't happening. It's more of a case of a few things pinging me or being ~strange~ if he's a villager. Like this:
@Silver: why are you asking Shinichi to make sense?
My question to Shinichi was pretty clearly not RVS or a joke, and... like, yes, this can definitely be read as a joke but it pinged me a bit that he interrupted my process by saying Shin wouldn't produce anything useful from my question. Gives Shin an easy out to just say nonsense instead of trying to answer the question.
His early Grape case/vote was... pretty bad. Of the two posts he didn't like, one of them was pretty clearly a joke. Maybe I've been spending too much time on MU but Grape played at least one game there and it's pretty common for players there to joke about having partners even if they're town. And the other was based on Grape saying he "isn't sure his laziness should be taken as AI" because Grape should, I guess, know 100% whether it is or isn't (I'm still not sure why that would make Grape a wolf). Grape goes on to step in it by misreading it as "I don't think", but I think Rhand looks worse overall in the interaction. Grape's just a bit sloppy, his point is fine though.
Then he votes shadow for being an "overly helpful wolf" since that's shadow's meta, supposedly, except shadow is (maybe overly) helpful as both alignment it's just that he's almost always a wolf lol.
Then he just declares Shadow is town without providing reasoning and votes Chris for not liking Shinichi's posting when they were both in Game of Thrones together, except Chris and Shin were wolves together so Chris probably wasn't paying too close attention to Shin's posts at the time. When I asked him why he thought shadow was town he said shadow "mindmelded" with him about Chris's Shin vote which... is something that happens but I'm not sure how you go from voting the guy and thinking he's a wolf to straight town reading him like that.
@Cantrip: whow did you go from voting me to voting Chris while his only beef was with me?
Am I scum if Chris is town?
...? I had retracted my suspicion on you long (ok, not in post count, but two whole days had passed) before I voted Chris. I certainly don't see the two of you as a dichotomy. His position on you didn't factor into my vote on him.
This is a good question but he doesn't do anything with the answer. Which is fine most of the time, I certainly haven't done much with the answers to questions I've asked, yet, but the second question is kind of pinging me like he's worried that Chris is going to flip town and how he'll look after that happens.
Then he goes back to Grape reusing the same reasoning he had from before after saying he thought it was maybe a language barrier problem, which makes zero sense unless he no longer thinks that. Later on he says that Grape is lying about his meta but I don't really think he was, like, Grape actually clarified later that he was just trying to say that making aggressive pushes is NAI for him. Yes, Grape did literally say he was in his wolf meta for making the aggressive pushes but I think the point was that it's within his wolf wheelhouse not that he only does it as a wolf. And I believe him, so.
He agreed with tom about lunching Ruma purely for inactivity (checks the "position to bus box" for me, thaaaank you), then voted to put LnGrrr into claim range who hasn't posted in a while either.
And now he's voting me because my reads list hasn't changed for five pages, apparently, even though literally nothing has happened to convince me any of my reads are wrong and I'm ~fairly certain I actually added Will to my town leans in the last five pages (Yep, post #430 at the bottom of page 9, so closer to three and a half and most of the recent posts have been me, Chris, and Wisp who I already have strong reads on). And to top it off, it reads a lot like he's trying to justify a wolf read on me even though he had just made a deal with Chris where he would vote me and Chris would look at Grape. Like, that is the reason. Maybe he's a wolf and he's worried about how that vote looks after my flip if he doesn't justify it / he's trying to justify leaving it on me in case the wagon picks up later.
Anyway, yeah, I don't think it's a slam dunk by any stretch (otherwise I'd be pushing him and still voting him) but he definitely could be a wolf. A lot of the reasons he's using to push people just straight up don't make sense to me or seem exaggerated for the sake of making the vote work. His iso's pretty short at 3 pages if you want to like, make sure I didn't take him out of context somewhere and I'm not just making up stories.
Lmao *arguing that his read on riku is his best work* when this slot is town is hilarious
On another not, I think that response to Chris was townie based solely on tone
Quote from Silver »
Yes, Grape did literally say he was in his wolf meta for making the aggressive pushes but I think the point was that it's within his wolf wheelhouse not that he only does it as a wolf.
This is a bit reachy tho, and I don't particularly like that he's assuming what Grape is thinking here
Even the part after it is meh, like I've never been particularly fond of people talking in 3rd person about people's mindsets going into their posts
Glad he's talking about someone other than me though
Like, that is the reason. Maybe he's a wolf and he's worried about how that vote looks after my flip if he doesn't justify it / he's trying to justify leaving it on me in case the wagon picks up later.
I still kinda agree with Tom in that his content alone should be enough to leave him alone day 1. We can pressure him and continue to ask him questions, but I doubt we ever Lynch him today unless he's town unless mafia are on the train
Just because I think it's my best work doesn't mean I'm right, it just means it's the strongest wolf read/case I've had on D1. If it's a bad catch, well, I never claimed to be particularly good at catching people on D1. My particular expertise is resolving night action claims and catching partners of dead wolves off of associatives.
Grape literally said that was what he meant at the time, pretty sure? That's how I read this bit anyway:
Fair. The point is you push as both alignments so anyone reading you just for pushing is committing negligence. Thankfully I'm reading you for pushing things you don't believe.
The problem is I seem to have been sloppy so it's possible you're legitimately confused but I don't really think that's the case.
Silver if you had a vig shot that only worked on people with 50+ posts, who would you shoot and why?
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Silver if you had a vig shot that only worked on people with 50+ posts, who would you shoot and why?
To be clear, the player pool is [Chris, tom, shadow, Grape].
Probably shadow? I don't really want to kill any of them toDay but if Grape is a wolf I'll definitely be able to resolve him, and I feel slightly worse about shadow than I do tom on a gut check (I have a pretty bad track record reading both of them).
Still think you're probably just a wrong villager, really.
Silver if you had a vig shot that only worked on people with 50+ posts, who would you shoot and why?
To be clear, the player pool is [Chris, tom, shadow, Grape].
Probably shadow? I don't really want to kill any of them toDay but if Grape is a wolf I'll definitely be able to resolve him, and I feel slightly worse about shadow than I do tom on a gut check (I have a pretty bad track record reading both of them).
Still think you're probably just a wrong villager, really.
If Grape is a wolf why not resolve him and then go for his buddies off interaction though?
I think I got ~approximately that upset at Kpaca in Four Horsemen but it's been a while. Tbh I've been avoiding sign ups because it feels inevitable that someone pushes me for something I think is NAI and it just really gets under my skin.
I don't know if Grape is a wolf yet, I meant that I think I'll be able to resolve him on a later Day with more info.
Anyway, yeah, think if I had to I shoot you. If you're a wolf it ~probably clears Wisp and I don't have any strong associatives on Grape at the moment either way, and of the four I feel slightly worse about you than tom or Grape.
Silver here is a hilarious tidbit: grand is virtually lock town to me.
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If you're implying that I'm a wolf and he's a villager because of that post I made, that is really hilarious but only because I'm not a wolf so you taking that as wolf spew is hilarious.
I am not. Your alignment does not matter, actually.
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I would like you to guess. If you guess correctly you are lock town too. No demerits for being wrong.
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Basically, scum are stupid. They can't help themselves. They think they are clever but their need for survival just overwhelms them sometimes. They aren't inclined to, say, vote for one of the two most active players in the game at the behest of the other in fear that it would look really bad. They would hedge, and let the town members bicker uselessly.
... As if I ever do anything useless.
Now Rhand is town either way because he also would not have voted for his scum buddy there.
So, in a world where you are town which I can buy given how people have trembled at this argument:
Shadow is town for being annoyed at me
Rhand is town for helping me along
Grape is town for blatantly going "I dont know what's up but it's fun to watch" no scum would ever be that blatant in topic about the top two town posters fighting.
You are town because I just stipulated that
My Cantripmancer town read holds from earlier
I am town because of course I am.
Leaving LW/Tom/Tubba/Lng/Will/Vaimes
To that, I say, congratulations you got the help on Ruma you always wanted.
##unvote: Silver
##Vote: LW
Your hedging on me vs silver is UNWORTHY OF THIS GAME, BEGONE.
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There's basically no chance for you that Rhand does what you want to appease you? He's moving to a wagon on a villager that he might expect to gain traction because you're pushing it so strongly and sort of overly/pre-emptively justifying the vote.
Silver, have a bigger town dick my friend. You are the top poster. Scum are cowardly creatures. Who would mess with you? No one! That's who!
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Like I am...really annoyed right now, Rhand, and in case any of you guys forgot it isn't a good idea to annoy me. STOP SLEEP WALKING THROUGH GAMES.
WAKE THE **** UP, EVERYONE.
Like LHF lynches just... piss me off so much. Silver has NOT STOOD to account for any of his BS. Itr is all BS. It is misdirection, placation, and not how a heavily active player should be influencing the game. But all of you are so CHECKED OUT and TUNNELING ON SOMEONE WHO HASN'T LOGGED IN NEARLY A WEEK to remember that even if Lng is scum, there is more than one scum and my days are often quite limited in this world.
Unfortunately for me, mafia is a team game. I cannot do things on my own. Except in a recent game elsehwere where I was made King day 1 and lynched scum, that was awesome. But that's probably not in the works here.
So how about we all collectively realize Silver is not doing a great job and squeeze him?
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Like... do you think if you press people and make them explain themselves day 1 that information will be of no value later? Hello? Shoving a near idle guy into a ditch isn't exactly doing much for town's chances of winning outside of the vacuum that he may be scum.
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We are in a similar spot here. You’re convinced Silver is scum, I’m convinced Grape is and everyone else is going for the afk guy.
Do me a favour and look at Grape.
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Yeh Silver is probably scum. But so is Grape.
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How he talks about me Rhand throughout day 1 makes me lean town on Grape, Rhand. Let me explain he starts early on by saying:
I like the bolded from a town perspective because the annoyance here seems genuine and it is a very weird thing to note from a scum perspective. He's taking exception to my leadership desire that he feels I have yet to earn which is a natural progression to how Grape really hasn't liked me this day in various ways instead of being one note and boring about it. He even thinks you and I could be buddies, and I feel this all has evolved rather naturally because it started with a tremor of annoyance about how I was trying to impact the day and it blossomed to furthering suspicion in what seems organic.
I also don't think scum Grape revisists Shadow's question about who he'd shoot and change to Tom. That reeks of town just randomly thinking of the game and going "hm wait, Tom is totally better." It also fits my town profile of Grape as someone who is very try hard in his effort towards solving that he'd think it important enough to re-assess that situation.
Rhand, I tend to like to engage with people a lot because I am good at direct interactions. I have a good BS detector when people approach me about ... me. I know how I operate well enough to know when things rang true and when they do not. God I didn't even notice because I've been a little out of it lately but Grapefruit has made some excellent posts about me. Really robust, beautiful thought patterns that show a proper paranoia and fear of someone like me that's measured, not over the top or sinister.
I don't agree with his conclusions, granted, but I get the strong impression that he has been thinking a lot about my alignment and it comes off as genuine.
I have ISO'd him, from your perspective I think I understand your concerns (not all of his logic quite adds up, he has used flawed thoughts a bit) but it comes off as mistakes rather than holes in his armor.
I will respectfully ask that you table Grape for the time being and help me with Silver. I assure you if Grape is scum he will not fool me forever, no one does. Except Pizzaguy that one game. That was impressive.
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Using online status is actually not really okay, so let’s not talk about that.
That being said, if the only argument for not lynching Lng is “he’s not here” I’m not whelmed.
Metaphorically, of course.
Also what's the argument for LNG again? I've read his posts here and there and yes I admit I am not opposed but... I worry about group think. I worry about "hold on, he hasn't posted in 5 days he needs to be replaced probably." Silver cried about me saying that about Ruma and we got LW, who has been a busy bee.
Also I was just saying that he hasn't posted in a long time, I have no need to use technical arguments.
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I love the resistance to Silver. It's really getting these old bones jittering with excitement. Oh my, what a beautiful game mafia is.
Oppose away, let's see if I've still got some of my magic left.
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I will slightly confess that I still have niggling doubts about you, so when you go after someone I like it has me worried. It took pressure on you to get you here, and while I’ve liked you since you’ve been here, as you say, you don’t have all those awards for nothing.
So let’s dance on silver; show me the post in response to you that you think most showcases his scumminess. Show me the post before you engaged him that most raised your eyebrows.
(I recognize you’re working on Grape as well, do what you need to do, I’ll be in and out at best through eod)
also Hi, ask me questions plz, I have long work hours for the next 8 days, and I'm not going to blow up the thread like I've done in the past, trying to solve the whole game day 1
What kind of bull***** is that?
Jesus Christ.
And whether Ruma is LHF or not doesn't change his role PM. It's not like I've been voting Ruma the entire game and refusing to vote elsewhere. He sure is low hanging fruit but I *specifically* said I didn't think he was a good lynch for momentum reasons. Even if I'm *right* lynching him doesn't really solve the game and if I'm *wrong* we're just going to replay Day 1 again.
It's the same ******* thing every. single. game. where some all-star whose ego is too big for their britches gets it into their head that I'm a wolf because of my ******* tone or because I don't have strong reads on people I want to lynch or because I'm using sarcasm.
Get off your high ******* horse. You wanted to dance Chris? Here I ******* am. This is what you asked for.
Whoever said I was putting Ruma with another lurker is flat out wrong, by the way, I said it might be but Ruma didn't really interact with anyone except two people I thought were villagers. The fact that I think there's one in Rhand/LnGrrr and one in my town reads if he's a wolf is independent (except that both of my bills, Cantrip and Shadow, are probably not wolves with him and I don't think the tram is exactly Wisp/Rhand/LnGrrr).
**** me, maybe it's just Chris and he's playing his ass off.
I'm going to step back from the thread for a while. Should have my laptop in an hour or so and I'll attempt to actually play the way I've been trying to instead of... like this.
I got someone to vote my top suspect of the day, unlike you.
Let's see what you've got, Silver.
Also tonight is date night for me, so not so many messages for a bit but I'll be around.
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Also I am not a big fan of people's meta, in case no one figured this out yet. Never have. Never has served me well. It's a poor tactic because it assumes predictive behavior which is hard.
Anyway, to be honest... at most I am at 7/10 right now. Sickness has gripped me this week (infection + micro seizures) so I am hampered. Which is why I found your town read of me, that confidence, so.. weird. I like that Shadow has doubts about me. My meta is a tangled web of confusion and death traps. My range is almost entirely overlapped town or scum, and really I am such a monstrous player that game state is how you read me, not looking at me.
GoT, town was getting their ass kicked while I was alive and I was just a ghost basically. Hm, not a good sign.
Death in the Family as soon as I came in I pulled a town member from death and instead shanked a scum in fiery fashion, and murdered scum until town didn't let me do that anymore. Oh, town.
Maybe LNG is scum. I don't know, he's been a lump I get the temptation to just pile on the lump and move on. I get it! However, what I dare to suggestr my fellow members of town is we try to do better than just go for a lynch and instead we hold people to account for when they don't play well. Silver is admitting left and right that he isn't playing well but yet now he resorts to OMGUS of "oh man maybe it is Chris!" when he has admitted no less than three times that my points are in many ways valid even if some are not. He hasn't presented the connective tissue to go from "chris is town and wrong" to "oh man chris kept at it, scum I guess."
So I press. I urge others to press. When you want to be good at mafia you don't do it alone, and if people don't listen you make them listen. You take up thread space. You don't let it go. You promise Rhand to iso Grape ON THE SPOT if he votes for your suspect. You make deals. You try.
Silver you didn't try very hard because I don't think you cared because you're scum.
And if you're not, prove it.
Welcome to Chris giving a ****, the water is shallow down here.
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Game of Thrones is the only data point I have for scum!Chris other than urban legends.
I'm not at lock-town-never-lynching you, because there are basically zero circumstances I would do that barring mechanical evidence on D1. But one of the two of us was almost always the N1 kill if you're town so I figured I would write you off for the Day. Tom, Shadow, Cantrip, and Rhand can be paranoia lunched and frankly, while they're all good players they don't usually hellmurder wolves. The other players (LnGrrr, Shinichi, Ruma, Will) either generally post in ways I consider to be wolfy and often get mislunched in games I'm spectating or are new players. I.e. the low hanging fruit.
So my question I guess is:
In a 12 player game with ~probably 3 wolves, do you think a list of 4 names plucked out of a hat randomly is likely to contain zero wolves?
If you agree that at least one of those players is likely to be a wolf, wouldn't you want to sort them while we have mislunches available? That's sort of where I was coming from to start with. You and I will probably be dead by D3 or D4 at the latest if we're town because I will clear myself after the first red flip and stand a decent chance of catching the rest of the wolves off of it. And you just because yeah, you're you.
And then you said the stuff about not wanting to disappoint shadow and that read really genuinely to me, like I said. You're probably capable of posting that as a wolf but you seemed excited to catch and lunch wolves and you have had every excuse to stop playing and you just don't. Maybe I'm bad for townreading you for that but lolme then.
You're my top town, but my reads are pretty thin overall and always have been on D1. I need a red flip or at least some kind of mechanical information to do my best work. I think the Ruma RVS read is some of my best work on D1 ~ever and the fact you're still entirely ignoring it because you have paranoia about the way I'm not-even-strongly-townreading you apparently is beyond frustrating.
All I have right now is a bunch of leans with Ruma at the bottom and you at the top. You're a "tier" above tom, etc. because I don't have any strong specific reason to believe they're town, they just ~feel~ towny and have made one or two good posts.
And to be frank, this whole you thinking I'm a wolf because I'm appeasing you or whatever; what am I supposed to do as a villager here, then? I told you specifically what problem I had with Ruma and you ignored it. I tried explaining my thought process and I'm appeasing you. You've boxed me in so I'm a wolf no matter what I do, and I tried to ignore it and do my thing but you're flagrantly ignoring the facts of the game to push this stupid paranoia lunch when you could be lunching actual wolves or doing something actually useful with the 48 hours you think you have left in the game.
Aaaamd that's it. I'm going to write some stuff about Rhand now.
My question to Shinichi was pretty clearly not RVS or a joke, and... like, yes, this can definitely be read as a joke but it pinged me a bit that he interrupted my process by saying Shin wouldn't produce anything useful from my question. Gives Shin an easy out to just say nonsense instead of trying to answer the question.
His early Grape case/vote was... pretty bad. Of the two posts he didn't like, one of them was pretty clearly a joke. Maybe I've been spending too much time on MU but Grape played at least one game there and it's pretty common for players there to joke about having partners even if they're town. And the other was based on Grape saying he "isn't sure his laziness should be taken as AI" because Grape should, I guess, know 100% whether it is or isn't (I'm still not sure why that would make Grape a wolf). Grape goes on to step in it by misreading it as "I don't think", but I think Rhand looks worse overall in the interaction. Grape's just a bit sloppy, his point is fine though.
Then he votes shadow for being an "overly helpful wolf" since that's shadow's meta, supposedly, except shadow is (maybe overly) helpful as both alignment it's just that he's almost always a wolf lol.
Then he just declares Shadow is town without providing reasoning and votes Chris for not liking Shinichi's posting when they were both in Game of Thrones together, except Chris and Shin were wolves together so Chris probably wasn't paying too close attention to Shin's posts at the time. When I asked him why he thought shadow was town he said shadow "mindmelded" with him about Chris's Shin vote which... is something that happens but I'm not sure how you go from voting the guy and thinking he's a wolf to straight town reading him like that.
This is a good question but he doesn't do anything with the answer. Which is fine most of the time, I certainly haven't done much with the answers to questions I've asked, yet, but the second question is kind of pinging me like he's worried that Chris is going to flip town and how he'll look after that happens.
Then he goes back to Grape reusing the same reasoning he had from before after saying he thought it was maybe a language barrier problem, which makes zero sense unless he no longer thinks that. Later on he says that Grape is lying about his meta but I don't really think he was, like, Grape actually clarified later that he was just trying to say that making aggressive pushes is NAI for him. Yes, Grape did literally say he was in his wolf meta for making the aggressive pushes but I think the point was that it's within his wolf wheelhouse not that he only does it as a wolf. And I believe him, so.
He agreed with tom about lunching Ruma purely for inactivity (checks the "position to bus box" for me, thaaaank you), then voted to put LnGrrr into claim range who hasn't posted in a while either.
And now he's voting me because my reads list hasn't changed for five pages, apparently, even though literally nothing has happened to convince me any of my reads are wrong and I'm ~fairly certain I actually added Will to my town leans in the last five pages (Yep, post #430 at the bottom of page 9, so closer to three and a half and most of the recent posts have been me, Chris, and Wisp who I already have strong reads on). And to top it off, it reads a lot like he's trying to justify a wolf read on me even though he had just made a deal with Chris where he would vote me and Chris would look at Grape. Like, that is the reason. Maybe he's a wolf and he's worried about how that vote looks after my flip if he doesn't justify it / he's trying to justify leaving it on me in case the wagon picks up later.
Anyway, yeah, I don't think it's a slam dunk by any stretch (otherwise I'd be pushing him and still voting him) but he definitely could be a wolf. A lot of the reasons he's using to push people just straight up don't make sense to me or seem exaggerated for the sake of making the vote work. His iso's pretty short at 3 pages if you want to like, make sure I didn't take him out of context somewhere and I'm not just making up stories.
On another not, I think that response to Chris was townie based solely on tone
This is a bit reachy tho, and I don't particularly like that he's assuming what Grape is thinking here
Even the part after it is meh, like I've never been particularly fond of people talking in 3rd person about people's mindsets going into their posts
Glad he's talking about someone other than me though
Referring to this part
Grape literally said that was what he meant at the time, pretty sure? That's how I read this bit anyway:
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Hmm my bad then, idk why you worded it like that, when he clearly did state what he meant
Probably shadow? I don't really want to kill any of them toDay but if Grape is a wolf I'll definitely be able to resolve him, and I feel slightly worse about shadow than I do tom on a gut check (I have a pretty bad track record reading both of them).
Still think you're probably just a wrong villager, really.
I think I got ~approximately that upset at Kpaca in Four Horsemen but it's been a while. Tbh I've been avoiding sign ups because it feels inevitable that someone pushes me for something I think is NAI and it just really gets under my skin.
I don't know if Grape is a wolf yet, I meant that I think I'll be able to resolve him on a later Day with more info.
Anyway, yeah, think if I had to I shoot you. If you're a wolf it ~probably clears Wisp and I don't have any strong associatives on Grape at the moment either way, and of the four I feel slightly worse about you than tom or Grape.
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Rhand*
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Assuming it isn't something silly like he's too wolfy to be a wolf / he'd be more careful to be consistent as one or something like that.
Just stepped away from the computer so give me a bit.
... As if I ever do anything useless.
Now Rhand is town either way because he also would not have voted for his scum buddy there.
So, in a world where you are town which I can buy given how people have trembled at this argument:
Shadow is town for being annoyed at me
Rhand is town for helping me along
Grape is town for blatantly going "I dont know what's up but it's fun to watch" no scum would ever be that blatant in topic about the top two town posters fighting.
You are town because I just stipulated that
My Cantripmancer town read holds from earlier
I am town because of course I am.
Leaving LW/Tom/Tubba/Lng/Will/Vaimes
To that, I say, congratulations you got the help on Ruma you always wanted.
##unvote: Silver
##Vote: LW
Your hedging on me vs silver is UNWORTHY OF THIS GAME, BEGONE.
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There's basically no chance for you that Rhand does what you want to appease you? He's moving to a wagon on a villager that he might expect to gain traction because you're pushing it so strongly and sort of overly/pre-emptively justifying the vote.
But yeah we can absolutely do this:
vote: Lastwhisper
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Have fun guys!
Yes, this is important.