KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I plead the fifth because of how mad Caine's will be at me for making him live. Lol.
Ok so.
I'm a double jailor. I wanted to Target Tom for sure. I was torn between Lngrrr and Tom for final scum.
I decided the other Target world be Vaimes. I considered Tom/shin but wanted shin to cop Tom so I had to pick other targets.
I also considered not using it but in Lngrrr world he doesn't follow the plan because he just loses.
I also considered my current targets win/win because if Lngrrr scum, we should win when winds shot him (sorry winds, that would have screwed your win con but I had to choose between mine and yours).
There's for sure someone blocking things. It can't be shin because he copped people on nights where the block happened (including me) but he wasn't always coping the block Target, so he's not a rc/rber combo.
Unless Tom is a gf that appears vanilla, it's not Tom.
My proposal is we Lynch Vaimes in case we are wrong, winds auto leaves when it's just us, I block the other two Stark's and if the have still going we reevaluate from there.
Weird things about the scumteam if shinichi is scum:
Knew winds was vig/sk, possibly as early as n1, and never blocking or killing him. Theres technically a shin/winds team but. Nah.
Chris' main impact would have been bussing. I know he sucked this game but seriously was pushing vaimes his only times playing to his wincon?
Rod used half a vig shot on him. Actually that sounds exactly like the sort of thing scumrod comes up with nevermind
He just... kept clearing people. Like, hes apparently happily clearing me and kj of being rb...
Also presumably he could have blocked kj. Or at least claimed he was blocked and leave my role up in the air?
Idk he had so many options and steadily hasn't taken them.
He tsrgeted:
N1 tom (success)
N2 tom (roleblocked)
N3 shinichi (roleblocked)
N4 winds (so he told me, but that would mean youd have been roleblocked unless he was but kj was?)
See that's where it gets kinda ****y. I just submitted my kill as 'kill a random stark so it fizzles/holster/whatever', but didn't get a roleblocked message. Possible Shadow just let me holster instead of actually shooting a teammate for it to fail, since that night was the night I was supposed to holster as per agreement with Rhand. (Probably for the best as I think I don't think I'd have hit a wolf).
Those are some weird targets though. Shinichi, really? Huh.
THRRROOOONNNEEES YEAH. GAME OF THROOOONNNNEEES YEAH.. GAME OF THROOONES. (THRONES YEAH GAME OF THRONES YEAH GAME OF THRONES)
vote sir chris
Hey budddddy. How ya doooooing.
nice to see you rolled town this game
YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW HAPPY I AM.
Also, how the **** did you get that from just one post?
Scum with inside information.
Vote Wisp
Hey ya'll I'm neutral that can with the town. I am the Iron Bank.
Basically I can offer up a JOAT of abilities to players and if they achieve their faction achievements I can consider the debt paid off. I need to achieve a few repayments in order to achieve my win condition.
I have abilities to offer up such as,
The Golden Company - Which gives a player a Vig shot that also can't be RoleBlocked.
I also have abilities such as,
Ledger of Titles - Which allows a player to recruit that player to their faction.
Overall I think that I can help the town win the game and will provide a full list of my abilities to the town so they can determine how to use them. I'm up for popular vote.
I have finals today so I'm going to be pretty busy, but this claim is about as serious as my vote on Wisp.
@Shinichi Your brother rolled scum lets end his misery.
God, you have no idea how fast my heart sunk upon getting the replace PM and opening up thread only to see this on like post 5 of the game.
And you’ll have to walk me through the “nice to see you rolled town” > “you have zany energy” leap.
*Looks at above post*
Uh... Nevermind I guess, objection withdrawn. Apparently I thought Wisp was just commenting on Rodemy being a dork and jokingly clearing him for it but apparently he is very good at this game and can tell the difference between scum and town Rodemy.
Which may still be a town thing but I'll let you stab him a few times and see what sounds he makes.
Honestly, if there's a neutral in the game, it's probably Rhand.
Faction of one smells.
That can change if there are other loners, or if DV's telling the truth about the recruitment power. Shifting wincons seems to be toeing the line, imo.
Vote Rhand for not travelling to Stuttgart! Real talk though, I will probably end up somewhere in Belgium this summer, hurray!
Throwing my vote behind Sir Chris for the Iron throne for now. Anyone else down for Sir Chris as D1 chair sitter?
I also accept DV as an Onion Knight to Sir Chris.
I would rather vote DV to the throne because I tend to have a hard time reading his slot and it be easier for me if the slot was just revealed as town unless hes mafia that be even more funny
Shin believes DV is neutral then got the rules wrong while also saying he thought DV was the best check and would flip town.
His other stances were "no don't townread vaimes" and... ?
I did like the Neutral bait-and-switch, but he's a bit too light on content. The theorycrafting is whatever.
@People townreading DV (Wisp, Killjoy, anyone else I missed): explain a bit?
(I actually just noticed that I'm agreeing with a lot of what RE's saying in 197, which makes me feel significantly better about townreading her, whee.)
Kinda wanna townread Cantrip's entrance. Just pinged town, I have no solid basis for it. I actually feel like I have a better handle on him after whatever game that was Highroller wrongfully killed me in.
Just gonna claim a faction v faction based wincon cuz I'm trying to setupgame but it's hard because i dont know the alignments of folk in my faction or identities/ alignments of the faction we're allied against but won't stop me from trying
Anyway overall I'm expecting scum to be in separate factions so rarely multiple scum in the same one...
There should be some all town factions too but yeah
Just so we are clear there is almost no way that Lngr is mafia for what he said. Maybe harmful third party but his talk about not having a faction and bringing it up in such a guileless fashion is not a mafia tactic in any stretch of the imagination.
I don't know what Highroller or Grape is smoking thinking that LnGrrR isn't town. 367,400 are pretty great examples of townie frustration.
Given that, [Rhand, Last, Grape, DV, Highroller] probably contains at least one scum.
Rhand's was RVS I think, so I guess discount that.
Last's memeing is, like I said, not what I look for in town!Last. Eventually he just kinda happens for me as he plays. He's not quite there yet.
I think Highroller is being the same Highroller as DitF. For now I'm gonna townlean him for that. His crazy, off the wall thought processes just don't seem scummy naturally.
DV is being the same DV I'm used to. Also his entrance into the game makes me wanna think he's less likely scum than not.
Grape I dislike. His read on LnGrrR is bad. His tone feels wrong. Also he seems to have forgotten how fake he thinks I am apparently? That's mildly hilarious.
Other people:
Vaimes is town. This is the town!Vaimes I missed in DitF. He's having opinions, he's doing stuff..
I'm kinda annoyed that I have to wait until the 15th to get a solid read on Rhand.
I'm kinda annoyed that I have to wait until some time in the future to get solider read on RE.
I'm slimming until I can sit down and respond to things properly. I'll look up the answer later, I did somewhat ISO Tom to see if he's said. Couldn't find it there.
I'm slimming until I can sit down and respond to things properly. I'll look up the answer later, I did somewhat ISO Tom to see if he's said. Couldn't find it there.
Its 575 then... and he makes mention to Last's post there. Which is 542.
Thanks. That's helpful.
Also slightly annoying.
Wisp: I don't recall him saying that he thought there was two wolves in our faction. I recall him saying one. Obviously, he thinks that's Shin. Do you think tom is the scum in our faction?
RE: The townlean on Rod is mostly for his entrance. I liked it. If he's not town, that should get stale sometime before the 1000 post mark.
With regards to 1053, I could easily say I'm sheeping tom because tom is probably right there. I would also add that, if we assume he really is new to forum mafia, then he most likely won't be able to hide his scumminess for too much longer. Thus is the nature of noob mafia players. Most of them break down relatively quickly.
Hunger: What do you think of Grape forgetting his read on me? Also, if you think I'm being fake, why aren't you actively interacting with me instead of just making a passive statement about how fake you think I am?
So what I've read so far is my faction has been revealed thanks to my brother, not sure why he would do that when its possible another factions win con could be trying to get ours killed -.-
Shin is already lock scum for me, it would take some miracle for me to change my opinion, it's a combination of meta as well as his earlier posts, and now his latter posts which show posting just for the sake of posting
Normally shin is obvious Lynch bait, but I don't see it here
i made a totally of what 10 posts? I am curious to where the lock scum read comes from?
Just gonna claim a faction v faction based wincon cuz I'm trying to setupgame but it's hard because i dont know the alignments of folk in my faction or identities/ alignments of the faction we're allied against but won't stop me from trying
Anyway overall I'm expecting scum to be in separate factions so rarely multiple scum in the same one...
There should be some all town factions too but yeah
I'd assume so too, but there might be one multiple scum faction.
Also, in the game I had that mirrors this my SK was part of the faction which facilitated the mafia day chat and the mafia would have been told that. Food for thought on that one.
@Vaimes yeah you're right. To quote Tom in a summary fashion(IE I'm to lazy to find the exact quote) "The way DV solves games leads to feels bad" So with that in mind I'm sitting it out to an extent. That's not to say I'm not looking at information. I am, but there isn't enough of it for me to feel its useful.
That being said I've got a slight town read on you. IE Vaimes, and a couple of lesser town reads on Grape and Re.
I'm currently watching Tubba, Sir Chris and Shinichi(But on the last one hes bad at reading me and I'm bad at reading him). Just to say how bad it was I literally just sheeped Last's read on Shinichi in the team game and didn't try and figure the slot out at all. I think Shinichi sheeped Osie's read on me. So LoL at that.
I don't think this setup is multiball, especially with all these alternate win cons I believe their is only 1 mafia faction with maybe some third parties thrown in. You're a tough ball to crack and I normally tend to vote you based on how you react since you can be quite extreme XD.
@highroller
are they? I'm going for my town win-con, I don't plan on going for my factional win-con at any point unless by accident... Actually, I won't say anymore because that requires me to state information on my alternate win-con
also, I'm not taking much likeness with your abrasive, smart ass behavior towards me, don't work with me, but this game will get hard if we are both town
My brother aka Shinichi is usually lynch bait, but I'm not getting those usual vibes that mafia love to jump on from him, rather quite the opposite, like the post you quoted which hints at the commentary that wolves love to employ to look like they actively care about anything that happens in the thread
but you do you, you can play ring around the rosy with the factional win-con and see where it gets you
Says this yet somehow people just magically know my faction lmfao, i dislike you with a passion. Also you calling me lynch bait puts a sour taste in my mouth lol. However I kinda wanna scum read you now espically if you are the one that revealed my faction because this is a huge 180.
I'd propose that we keep these things underwraps this way we can simply evaluate roles.
1. Case by case basis I guess, can the role confirm himself? does the mechanical claim out weigh how scummy they are?
2. Depends
3. I don't plan on saying anything even up the point of me being in L2 or L1
and that's good to hear, your last post I mean, I would love to finish a game with you... kek
You got kicked out of the last MAL game we were in. Don't look at Role PM's.
If you were a SK this game who would you kill tonight right now and why? Asking for a friend.
I didn't get kicked out of *****, that was Chad's fault for coming into my room knowing I was the mod of the game he was in, possible responding or reading something he shouldn't see
Uhm you literally opened it up, while i waas talking to you -.-. Not like I walked into your room and it was open in plain sight. You opened it while i was in front of your computer talking about whatever who knows lol.
@shinichi-kun
ill lynch you last because you're my brother if you hint me at who the other mafia are
This is some classic game of thrones *****.
We really should make today Brother on Brother lynch wagons.
@Tom Lynching Shinichi is against my win con. You know the one that says "Town win at the top"
thats ok, cause Shin isn't part of town
@Grape
no idea on her scum meta, I'm just as outdated as you
Watching your read slowly develop on me while nothing explaining why deeply saddens me, you kinda just skipped the part where i went from kinda being scum to just scum without any logic supporting it.
Espically knowing tom has been wrong about my alignment alot lol or he scum when im town.
What do you think about the Tom/Last/Shin faction? They all seem pretty confident they have scum amongst them, but none of them have really mentioned why.
Seems obvious, if you look at it like a Neighborhood - "oh, there's bound to be a scum among us/them!"
I admit I had the same thoughts about my own faction, given it consists of More Than One Person, but I don't have strong enough reads on the people individually and it seems silly to chase after a dichotomy that might not even exist. I don't know if the mods made the houses truly random or if they had an idea for balancing factions and secondary win conditions.
@Shinichi
alot of walls but who exactly is pinging you? did you say anyone could be mafia outside me?
Based on me catching up
[color=green]
Vaimes
DV
tom
DV
LW[/color]
[color=yellow]
KA
rhand
cobalt
1053
hunger
[/color]
[color=red]
Cantrip
HR
Rod
Sir Chris[/color
Ill go into detail later but this is what i got so far, honestly the ROD read is just because i don't think hes done enough tobe locked town for me so i find it supcest your still trying to read him as town.
Rodemy has one more strike, he already has two, one more and he's going into my scum pile, while I cry for being so wrong
Glad to see your actually evaluating the slot instead of mindlessly town reading rod. Fact that you're not continuing to just argue and push it kinda worries me though. Normally your quite headstrong when it comes to your reads.
What posts in general by rod have weakened your read?
@Shinichi
alot of walls but who exactly is pinging you? did you say anyone could be mafia outside me?
Based on me catching up
[color=green]
Vaimes
DV
tom
DV
LW[/color]
[color=yellow]
KA
rhand
cobalt
1053
hunger
[/color]
[color=red]
Cantrip
HR
Rod
Sir Chris[/color
Ill go into detail later but this is what i got so far, honestly the ROD read is just because i don't think hes done enough tobe locked town for me so i find it supcest your still trying to read him as town.
Hi, quick pop in. Great news the owner of the airbnb place took a liking to me and thought me and my gf were the sweetest things ever, so she actually paid for an airbnb for us for an entire month that is double the price this one was, took us out for dinner, and yeah wow that worked out. Lots of packing to do last second but yeah that's amazing.
For my next trick how anyone can read this post, also for those new to Chris I read the thread backwards while catching up, and not immediately go, "oh this is a scum post sweet."
1. He tries to justify the Rod read by saying he finds it suspect that Wisp town reads him. Vacuum this is fine, he can think Wisp is scum and this is a bad interaction with a buddy so cool.
2. I then see LW is in his green pile. Meaning his reason for suspecting Rodemy is "I find it suspect that a person who I am town reading thinks Rod is town, so I am voting Rod (which makes no sense in way. If you suspect LW of the Rod read it can go both ways - either TMI for scum LW on a town Rod or covering for a scum buddy Rod - but suspicion of LW's logic expressed in this manner never (no worlds, which btw if you know me and my love of worlds is a big spoiler where this post is ending) results in a town read of LW if the thought is genuine.
He seems to post quite a bit of content if my glance at the thread is right, which means he isn't just lurking and getting things wrong for lack of effort. Which then means if a thought is massively contradictory but can also not be explained away by 'he isn't paying attention or caring" that only leaves one other possibility.
##vote: Shinichi
No worlds where an invested member of town places that vote with that logic and that reads list. He is scum. All other votes may not be wrong, but are statistically less likely to be correct based off that post.
P.S. I have had a frustrating few days please counter vote me so I can smack you around like a pinata it will be fun I will bring cake.
If anyone other than Shinichi would like to defend this post I eagerly await the wealth of information I will receive by you doing so.
SECONDLY.
Wisp to have a massive post about this issue and not catch this is "holy ***** you are his scumbuddy" btw. Like, how do you even avoid that massive logical chasm? Holy **** you are scum with him. Like. Unquestionably.
Did you guys chat this up and then just not read right? How do you see your name green, what Shinichi said in his Rodemy suspicion, and then go "oh yeah CHECKS OUT" ???
Anyway not sure when I'll post next. But uh, yeah Shinichi should be super uber dead.
He, speaking to you in that post, says this (I am quoting)
"Ill go into detail later but this is what i got so far, honestly the ROD read is just because i don't think hes done enough to be locked town for me so i find it suspect you're still trying to read him as town. "
(I fixed typos)
Translation:
My SCUM read is just because I don't think hes done enough to be locked town for me so I find it suspect you're (MY TOWN READ) still trying to read him as town.
I SUSPECT MY TOWN READ IS LYING ABOUT A SCUM RED SO I HAVE A SCUM READ ON THE SCUM READ BECAUSE MY TOWN READ IS SUSPICIOUS.
Like squabbles over reasons are probably good. One one reason agreed on to lynch someone is usually suspect in its accuracy in my experience, but multiple threads from differing perspectives going "oh this is scummy" is less prone to margin of error within individual theories. You got your reason, I got mine, and he's got another couple votes that I may or may not have read not sure at this point but either way multiple angles each concluding in scum is usually a good sign for accuracy so let's do this Tom. Make Mafia Great Again.
1. Played with Wisp before. He is not a raving lunatic devoid of logic wtf dv
2. You ask me to pick between wisp and shin when my vote is on shin and my read on lw is based on a scum shin so what are you evrn asking that for
3 shin does not appear to address me. I make the most substantive vote and he has me red and he asks vaimes how I convinced him instead of refuting me.
4.oh also he said "I am playing like I always do" which is like "things scum say when trying to mimic their town game 101"
@Shinichi
alot of walls but who exactly is pinging you? did you say anyone could be mafia outside me?
Based on me catching up
[color=green]
Vaimes
DV
tom
DV
LW[/color]
[color=yellow]
KA
rhand
cobalt
1053
hunger
[/color]
[color=red]
Cantrip
HR
Rod
Sir Chris[/color
Ill go into detail later but this is what i got so far, honestly the ROD read is just because i don't think hes done enough tobe locked town for me so i find it supcest your still trying to read him as town.
Hi, quick pop in. Great news the owner of the airbnb place took a liking to me and thought me and my gf were the sweetest things ever, so she actually paid for an airbnb for us for an entire month that is double the price this one was, took us out for dinner, and yeah wow that worked out. Lots of packing to do last second but yeah that's amazing.
For my next trick how anyone can read this post, also for those new to Chris I read the thread backwards while catching up, and not immediately go, "oh this is a scum post sweet."
1. He tries to justify the Rod read by saying he finds it suspect that Wisp town reads him. Vacuum this is fine, he can think Wisp is scum and this is a bad interaction with a buddy so cool.
2. I then see LW is in his green pile. Meaning his reason for suspecting Rodemy is "I find it suspect that a person who I am town reading thinks Rod is town, so I am voting Rod (which makes no sense in way. If you suspect LW of the Rod read it can go both ways - either TMI for scum LW on a town Rod or covering for a scum buddy Rod - but suspicion of LW's logic expressed in this manner never (no worlds, which btw if you know me and my love of worlds is a big spoiler where this post is ending) results in a town read of LW if the thought is genuine.
He seems to post quite a bit of content if my glance at the thread is right, which means he isn't just lurking and getting things wrong for lack of effort. Which then means if a thought is massively contradictory but can also not be explained away by 'he isn't paying attention or caring" that only leaves one other possibility.
##vote: Shinichi
No worlds where an invested member of town places that vote with that logic and that reads list. He is scum. All other votes may not be wrong, but are statistically less likely to be correct based off that post.
P.S. I have had a frustrating few days please counter vote me so I can smack you around like a pinata it will be fun I will bring cake.
If anyone other than Shinichi would like to defend this post I eagerly await the wealth of information I will receive by you doing so.
SECONDLY.
Wisp to have a massive post about this issue and not catch this is "holy ***** you are his scumbuddy" btw. Like, how do you even avoid that massive logical chasm? Holy **** you are scum with him. Like. Unquestionably.
Did you guys chat this up and then just not read right? How do you see your name green, what Shinichi said in his Rodemy suspicion, and then go "oh yeah CHECKS OUT" ???
Anyway not sure when I'll post next. But uh, yeah Shinichi should be super uber dead.
Ok first off thats crazy awesome, i wish that would happen to me without the freaking out part and basically getting robbed.
As for wwhatever you have to say on sir chris, remind you i've never played with him so if your gonna give me some bs reason as to why he whatever alignment he is this game I don't wanna hear nor do i care about someone else meta read on a player. As of right now he hasnt done much for me to say hey this guy is town there he is scum. Also your logic on LW makes no sense because this entire time i've been trying to explain to my brother that his read on roemy is wrong and that the slot is more likely scum so why would I have wisp as scum and rod as town. It doesn't make sense it be a huge contradiction and over sight on my part.
Also your wrong because I contradict myself a lot because I have a poor memory, my alignment would not affect that whatsoever.
I think your reading too much into my rainbow read list that was just something i made in like 10 minutes with very weak reasoning.
You haven't played with me enough to be able to stand by this read your bolstering about it.
He, speaking to you in that post, says this (I am quoting)
"Ill go into detail later but this is what i got so far, honestly the ROD read is just because i don't think hes done enough to be locked town for me so i find it suspect you're still trying to read him as town. "
(I fixed typos)
Translation:
My SCUM read is just because I don't think hes done enough to be locked town for me so I find it suspect you're (MY TOWN READ) still trying to read him as town.
I SUSPECT MY TOWN READ IS LYING ABOUT A SCUM RED SO I HAVE A SCUM READ ON THE SCUM READ BECAUSE MY TOWN READ IS SUSPICIOUS.
Got it yet Wisp? Do you see that chasm?
I mean clearly now I have nor eason to suspect my own brother ebcause he pointed how his view on rodemy has been changing.
1. Played with Wisp before. He is not a raving lunatic devoid of logic wtf dv
2. You ask me to pick between wisp and shin when my vote is on shin and my read on lw is based on a scum shin so what are you evrn asking that for
3 shin does not appear to address me. I make the most substantive vote and he has me red and he asks vaimes how I convinced him instead of refuting me.
4.oh also he said "I am playing like I always do" which is like "things scum say when trying to mimic their town game 101"
I doon't understand #3?
As for 4, i am not sure why your reading into that statement anyways when it should be NAI for someone who hasnt played with me cause it is entirely wifom.
@DV
I can be w/e player the game needs me to be, I am the hero you don't deserve...
No sadly you're not.
I've only seen you ever play one way.
While your way is readable for me at this point it predictable. For example, you've managed to totally ignore the whole Chris tell. You're going to have to work that one through for me, or at least yourself at some point.
Im suppose to see a tell that in every definition of the word tell, is subjective, to the person stating it, and honestly, I could care less about these meta tells, stop trying to aggravate me with your mindless shade like you are some mafia genius, it makes me not want to play anymore. This is the same dribble I met with in my first games here... and I will not have it here again, not after constantly trying my best to improve
we are about to do the same ***** we do in every game with Shin, lynch him because hes "cannon fodder", whether he flips mafia or town, it's still the same old news and I'm over it
Hi no. Denied. I brought good logic to the table fo not try to appeal to emotion away my concise reasoning. I dont know shin from Adam I just know what I read.
Also Vaimes stood picking on me about my general lack of reads I am stressed. Will say wisp is venturing into twtbw tho.
Sorry to say but the moment you said I could possibly be a mislynch you actually used up all ur logic. I also don't care about your stress nor my brothers own ATE so get that ***** out of here.
”I take no joy in mead nor meat, and song and laughter have become suspicious strangers to me. I am a creature of grief and dust and bitter longings. There is an empty place within me where my heart was once.”
-Catelyn Stark
Not Voting (5): Shinichi, tomsloger, Killjoy, Thousand_Winds, Vaimes
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch. Deadline is June 19th at 1400 MST.
A reminder about Iron Throne support: All support must be done via PM (either MTGS or discord), and can be changed as many times as you wish up until twilight is announced. I strongly recommend queuing it up sooner than later.
@vaimes
shin doesn't give a heck about what you think, he will continue the same behavior
??? Rude. Personal things sir. And out of respect to shadow I am going to not replace, but expect low posting this game.
I will not go into it. But mental health is important. Keep up with it guys.
Its fine to have mental health problems, but please refrain from making posts about it. Outside of the game, I care about the health of everyone, but in game I will not have someone tell me they're sick so I should treat them differently. Sorry, but not sorry.
I respect the problems that every indivudal faces but this is a game where I wont have ruined because people are upset or stressed.
@vaimes
shin doesn't give a heck about what you think, he will continue the same behavior
??? Rude. Personal things sir. And out of respect to shadow I am going to not replace, but expect low posting this game.
I will not go into it. But mental health is important. Keep up with it guys.
Its fine to have mental health problems, but please refrain from making posts about it. Outside of the game, I care about the health of everyone, but in game I will not have someone tell me they're sick so I should treat them differently. Sorry, but not sorry.
I respect the problems that every indivudal faces but this is a game where I wont have ruined because people are upset or stressed.
What the ****.
He's saying he is busy and he isn't going to post much.
**** off. How dare you.
I'm not reading him based off that though, I have never once said hes posting very little so he has to be scum. I'm scum reading him based on what hes already posted, all i did was clarify that him being busy wouldnt effect my read on him or change it anyway. So please don't play me as heartless. I play the game without emotion but I care about everyone outside of this game. Don't you dare tell me to **** off because i refuse be told to back off of a player because they're busy.
I'm just gonna go ahead and throw it out there, but I wouldn't be opposed to taking the throne. I don't expect to actually win it, so I haven't bothered campaigning just yet.
It does play to one of my wincons, so.
I think I'm toeing the edge of leaving my current scumrange, but other people can fact-check me on that.
The mighty dragon Rodemy roars at Shinichi, flames in his throat. Shinichi cowers, and the dragon closes his mouth and flies away, leaving his would be prey to contemplate life just a while longer.
I'm trying to write a 10-page paper right now, so give me a break, or just lynch me today, I'll be consistently busy throughout the week.
Get that grade.
\\\\\\
We should maybe elect two people?
IE split our votes so if the the first one gets NK'd it isn't someone random? Or scum controlled?
what do you mean?
ummm.
Throne Elections?
Instead of just one person that the town tries to elect we try and elect two? Split our votes in an agreed way?
IDK. Sounds like work though.
Thats fine but if anything I am voting vaimes or you, mostly leaning towards vaimes for being sane XD.
Though the split votes help mafia more so espically if the iron throne only has to deal with town getting the throne, what i the split ote leads to mafia being the iron throne.
As for wwhatever you have to say on sir chris, remind you i've never played with him so if your gonna give me some bs reason as to why he whatever alignment he is this game I don't wanna hear nor do i care about someone else meta read on a player. As of right now he hasnt done much for me to say hey this guy is town there he is scum. Also your logic on LW makes no sense because this entire time i've been trying to explain to my brother that his read on roemy is wrong and that the slot is more likely scum so why would I have wisp as scum and rod as town. It doesn't make sense it be a huge contradiction and over sight on my part.
Also your wrong because I contradict myself a lot because I have a poor memory, my alignment would not affect that whatsoever.
I think your reading too much into my rainbow read list that was just something i made in like 10 minutes with very weak reasoning.
You haven't played with me enough to be able to stand by this read your bolstering about it.
So this is one of Shin's attempts to reply to Chris' push. And he seems to not fully understand the push, but I think his reply makes it obvious that he believes the issue is his read on LW. Shin is scatterbrained but he's not stupid.
If anything it just means wisp is scum with ROD, I don't find it that contradictory. Unless your somehow your certain ROD will flip scum which then I would have to ask how you have aquired that information.
For now Rod is scum and Wisp is town. You can read into whatever you want about that post, but that is my read.
And here is a similar reply to DV. He's still not explaining his Rod read, but it's clear that he doesn't grasp why he's being pushed and doesn't base his read on Rod on Wisp's read on Rod.
Oh I defitainly didn't understand the situation fully that's my fault, i am def scatter brained though :P. Oh its not that i don't grasp the push, it's that i don't care. Come on GF when have i ever cared about being pushed, i can stay calm through most situations.
Not Voting (6): 1053nm, Shinichi, Hunger, Tubba Fett, Coballt, Lastwhisper
Coballt has 12 hours before a replacement will be sought.
V/LA
Sir Chris through May 9th
Killjoy through the week (semi V/LA)
Last through the week (semi V/LA)
With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is May 14th at 1700 MST.
A reminder about Iron Throne support: All support must be done via PM (either MTGS or discord), and can be changed as many times as you wish up until twilight is announced.
Hello mafia game friends. I was in the ER yesterday after passing out due to severe dehydration. Apparently when you vomit all day if you try to stand up with no liquids in your body your blood pressure drops and your body will insist on falling back down. Doing OKish today, very drained and on a lot of medications for my other illness.
I apologize for the request for a "cut to the chase", but I hope you all will b understanding if I ask for a summation of events over the last day? Has Shin wow'd the world?
Reading backwards I notice Tom wants me to read more Shin games. I have to be honest when I say I find Shin's posts hard to read and I am unsure if I will gain anything from previous Shin games unless I know exactly what I am looking for with precision. Like I get the gist that he goes on adventures and isn't a very technical player - trust me, I just got done defending Osi who was playing bad on purpose for like three weeks. I like to believe I have some credibility when it comes to being able to tell the difference between "not so technical town" and scum.
Also Tom I am all for games but for you in particular you have about a random chance of finding mafia (1/3) even if your theory is true, and while I think it is (hi Shin) I don't think basing an entire day of gameplay around it is particularly sound. So I am assuming your other faction involves you murdering one of the shin/wisp/kj faction and you are disguising it with this logic to benefit your goals.
I think putting me on the Iron Throne would have some unexpectedly hilarious results and it is very beneficial to town to do it. I promise it would be a hoot.
Also I don't trust Vaimes with one vote, much less two!
Reading backwards I notice Tom wants me to read more Shin games. I have to be honest when I say I find Shin's posts hard to read and I am unsure if I will gain anything from previous Shin games unless I know exactly what I am looking for with precision. Like I get the gist that he goes on adventures and isn't a very technical player - trust me, I just got done defending Osi who was playing bad on purpose for like three weeks. I like to believe I have some credibility when it comes to being able to tell the difference between "not so technical town" and scum.
Also Tom I am all for games but for you in particular you have about a random chance of finding mafia (1/3) even if your theory is true, and while I think it is (hi Shin) I don't think basing an entire day of gameplay around it is particularly sound. So I am assuming your other faction involves you murdering one of the shin/wisp/kj faction and you are disguising it with this logic to benefit your goals.
i mean what you'd be looking for is "Oh god he's always like this" or something.
Idk im specifically remembering the team game i was in with him if youre interested
I'm not "basing a day" on it. Im basing part of my read on 3 people ok it, and 2 of those people are currently major topics.
I feel no desire to discuss my various win conditions. But i will not pretend to be playing solely to my town one at any point.
I believe last is most likely scum in the faction at current.
Hello mafia game friends. I was in the ER yesterday after passing out due to severe dehydration. Apparently when you vomit all day if you try to stand up with no liquids in your body your blood pressure drops and your body will insist on falling back down. Doing OKish today, very drained and on a lot of medications for my other illness.
I apologize for the request for a "cut to the chase", but I hope you all will b understanding if I ask for a summation of events over the last day? Has Shin wow'd the world?
Hopefully your much better
Also i am excellent at wowing the world just trust me
I think putting me on the Iron Throne would have some unexpectedly hilarious results and it is very beneficial to town to do it. I promise it would be a hoot.
Also I don't trust Vaimes with one vote, much less two!
Ill go into detail later but this is what i got so far, honestly the ROD read is just because i don't think hes done enough tobe locked town for me so i find it supcest your still trying to read him as town.
So it's about LW then, very well.
"I find it suspect you are town reading Rod. So I put you as town."
In my experience when people try to shield people with meta against me I am usually the one who is correct. Like I understand Shin is a bit rambly but I feel like I got the point. That and his follow up line about "playing like I always do" is a very big "uh oh" moment.
I am leaning town on you Grape because it would be very audacious of a scum player to provoke the me after the game I just had, so I think you'd tread carefully here in either a defense of a buddy or a white knighting a town player.
Hey Grapefruit so after reviewing your reasoning I disagree. I feel like Shin's responses to me have been pretty tight and I don't get a relaxed vibe at all. I guess we'll just have to have a battle of wits and personality to decide who will get their way.
Also I think a lot of the people making excuses for Shin are good faith actors who see him as a not so good player and seek to protect him. Which I think is fine but mistaken in this case. Like it isn't just the "oh heh this is bad moment" but his follow ups with me have been tense from my tonal read of them. Like he really wants to shake me off. Also despite me voting him after the fact I haven't felt any genuine intent from him to maybe want to murder me, despite me being a red read of his. Like I have been a bit out of it but to my knowledge he didn't claim omgus or anything like that which in theory could have been applied.
I'd have to take full inventory after the flip but I bet only one buddy has actively defended shin if he is indeed mafia, while others just were like "heh heh let's vote someone else" which will also be looked into.
Or he is town and this is awkward but hey trust the process!
I still hate that Shin hasn't really instantiated on his scum read on Rodemy, like I can argue he's town for my reasons and how shallow they may is quite subjective, but for the most part he hasn't pointed out anything that was really scummy from him, which is weird since even I pointed out posts I didn't like him Rodemy who I initially had as a lock town from his entrance
That's still the problem I have, like Shin is arguing that not only is my read shallow, but that Rodemy is scummy... and he still has yet to place his vote
You can't really deny that it looks like he's creating a narrative @Grape
I and you both know we are treating him different for the sake of who he is, not due to his context, mechanically, like usual, he is quite scummy. I think his overall attitude is towny outside of that, and I will employ different tactics to read my brother even though I initially jumped on him
I would rather in the meantime, focus on other people, if we are dead set on lynching Shin, we still have 8 other days to find other scum (if he is scum), and Shin has been the forefront of many pages, which at this point it's just pointless to continue this conversation
I prob should go build on at that some more instead of just being all talk XD. Well, you prob can't argue he's town except for the fact that he's a vigilante, its highly possible for rod to be a mafia day shot vig or whatever you would call it. I ain't sure how likely that is though, so it's like do I still scum read him or not? No narrative, I just haven't felt the need to vote is all. You could also use this argument on the 3 other people I scum read or at least had red in my read list.
1) It tests cooperation. You have already shown that you don't believe in it and heavily hinted at what you do at baseline in a prisoner's dilemma situation. Info gained whether or not people agree to do the plan.
2) Scum have to make the difficult decision about whether they should intentionally give up power or take the risk. Killing the throne gives us info about the scum either way. Seeing who they intentionally targeted also gives a lot of information. Also, giving probably a scum team of 4 one extra vote now when there are 15 town is not that big of a deal. Again, not going to discuss possibilities or how I would interpret every single outcome in detail before we see who gets the throne--I'll do that regardless and, as you've already pointed out, telling scum exactly how you're going to react is just giving them unnecessary information. Unless of course, you're scum and are digging for extra information?
I don't see how this of any help though I feellike this is more of a bait than an actual plan. Which I don't like how at the end you scum read someone off of some plan that probabaly won't work.
1053: First, DV recanted the entirety of the claim, not just the neutral alignment.
I dislike the idea that we "get information on scum" if we kill the iron throne and it's town. What info do we get? How is this worth a wasted day? What do we do the next time?
And the extra vote is the least interesting part of the Iron Throne. Whoever's on the Iron Throne can't have their abilities interrupted. That means if scum get the throne, any town protective role is effectively disabled. This is what we should be worried about, not the extra vote.
Interesting I actually missed the last part, it really make the iron throne strong in the hands of mafia. I aint to worried aslong as vaimes or someone else i town read gets voted.
@Everyone
What are your scum leans outside Shinichi, if he even is one?
Shinichi
Grape
Cantrip
HR?
Honestly Grape telling me I'm wrong on Shinichi with little to no evidence reinforces that I'm right because the majority of the disagreements where I scum read someone and he defends them I'm right.
When have you been right about me? Unless your refering to grape fruit which is pretty accurate based on how I see him play every single game. I wouldn't mind a grapefruit lynch at some point but at the same time hes kinda just playing the nice town.
@Shinichi
holy ****, you are not reading this game... what outted neutrals are you talking about lmao
@RE
the noob town vibes were definitely applicable in the past, and not so much now
I agree that a lot of his stuff is just fancy talk, and not much of anything else, and I don't even agree with his whole "throne" plan
What is your stance on Shin now? Can you get your vote off me you potato... I am not scum here
Didn't DV claim neutral or did he retract the claim? Also somewhere else I read there was another tpr claim unless I am missing something?
May I ask why you are confident precisely (if you have said so before. please forgive me I was bedridden all of yesterday) also why I should take your confidence as credible? What is your history and accuracy with Shin?
I've played probably 8ish games with Shin. After reading him incorrectly for the first few I've been consistently able to arrive at his town game.
As for what gives me confidence it's a combination of tone, style, and substance. He feels relaxed in his tone hasn't shown any signs of tightness. While it isn't a fast rule he tends to stick more stringently to his out of date catch ups as town. As scum he's more prone towards real time interaction and focusing in on specific people. Which is slightly different to his town game which also shows a focus but is likely to be on people he's familiar and friendly with. Most importantly I think his more explained reads are likely to come from town. His HR stance of "he's wrong and feels townie but I don't want to commit to it while he's pushing wrong things" feels more like a town stance than a scum one. And his consistent bashing of multiple people reading more into Rod's opening is the right choice. Yes it's buried in a ton of text but the opinions there feel like an organic town mindset to me.
Ehh I think you give yourself too much credit my friend, you do realize its impossible to break my relaxed nature. I'll literally die before i freak out about anything. The rest of this statement I have to agree with though :D.
Hey Grapefruit so after reviewing your reasoning I disagree. I feel like Shin's responses to me have been pretty tight and I don't get a relaxed vibe at all. I guess we'll just have to have a battle of wits and personality to decide who will get their way.
@chris
Call it good faith or w/e, i still would rather him not be put 6' under today
Tell you what Wisp, give me a name I can get behind? You are voting for a not-mafia read of mine right now and you've played enough with me to know those reads are usually pretty good so if you are claiming "super bro knowledge" you are not the first brothers I have played with. Whatcha got for me?
Is your brother the type of player who gets voted by someone, tunneled essentially, and this makes him suspect them less? Because that's what he claimed happened here.
You really sure I don't have something? Cause admittedly I think you are too pure for this world right now with this defense but it doesn't add up to me.
Because my mistake hinted at my not having a faction chat as I'd have known there was no day chat for those.
Hm ok. You’re caught solo then. Jippie.
If nothing else pops up, I’ll try to do more reading soon.
I have no other leads to go with :/
@Chris: who should I be voting and why?
[b]unvote[/b]
I think I never unvoted my RVS vote.
1. Why did you ask me?
2. Shinichi. I believe he straight up contradicted himself to the point that no town could genuinely contradict that way (read my iso if you want the exact details) and since then he just keeps doing little things that I cannot reconcile with a genuine town mindset.
@RE
the noob town vibes were definitely applicable in the past, and not so much now
I agree that a lot of his stuff is just fancy talk, and not much of anything else, and I don't even agree with his whole "throne" plan
What is your stance on Shin now? Can you get your vote off me you potato... I am not scum here
I'll try to be open as possible with my thoughts here.
I'm a weird player (person). One of my goals in mafia is to learn how to solve the game without ever needing to closely analyze or even read every post. That's because in every single game, there are certain behaviors mafia cannot avoid - in order for them to win, town must be lynched.
Generally speaking, there are two ways for town to be lynched. Either by fellow town, or through mafia powerwolfing. Powerwolfing is easier (less of a gamble) to recognize, as that player or players will be exposing themselves. If town is lynching town, however, mafia can either hop on or stay back.
Which brings me to a more relevant issue that's been weighing on my mind - I find you and Grape incredibly wolfy, but despite being under a large amount of suspicion, you are still among the most active players in the game.
So I'm in a dilemma. Do I lynch people I think are wolves (you and Grape), or do I make an attempt at hindsight and run with the possibility that scum are just laying back while town is fighting town? It is only day 1 and information is scarce. (Shinichi technically falls under this category, but I actually believe he's town).
So I'm going to think about it.
I think your look at mafia as a persona instead of looking at it for every individual person. I don't think there are things that will get scum caught all the time, it's entirely based on a person. I think I am a perfect example, in normal situations if someone were to contradict themselves as much as I do they would be lynched for being scum. I tend to get away with it because I'm an idiot at times XD. Also, Mafia to hop on a train still need to provide a reason, if their reason is poor it won't work.
Wisp will always be active that can't be read into, however that isn't a dilemma if you scum read someone that's where you should, for the most part, be lynching. Unless they can prove otherwise they're a town.
The mighty dragon Rodemy roars at Shinichi, flames in his throat. Shinichi cowers, and the dragon closes his mouth and flies away, leaving his would be prey to contemplate life just a while longer.
[b]Nothing happens[/b]
This is where Rodemy's shot is made, and misses.
Going to voice a tinfoil now. This could easily be a crier ability of sorts, where you send the mod a message to be posted anonymously. Until someone dies from this claimed ability, I will not trust it.
Town crier is the role that can be used to have the mod send announcements in the thread no? If so its possible, what would have been is goal though? To try to get me off his suspicion by making me believe he is a vigilante?
I can say if he's scum he's not with LnGrrrR. Maybe not with Wisp.
Surprised you think i can be scum with DV after all our interactions. I don't follow your read on DV because everything hes done has just seem so natural except the fake claim not sure why he would do that. I would never vote DV on this day, but i can budge on future days.
Is your brother the type of player who gets voted by someone, tunneled essentially, and this makes him suspect them less? Because that's what he claimed happened here.
You really sure I don't have something? Cause admittedly I think you are too pure for this world right now with this defense but it doesn't add up to me.
I have a logical reason to believe that though, and games to back it up. Specifically 1 game with vaimes where he gave me a dumb town tell read and then flipped scum. Also had a few games were like this one I read the person pushing me as a town because I believe they could be a town.
[b]V/LA
Sir Chris through May 9th
Killjoy through the week
Lastwhisper through the week (semi V/LA)
With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is May 14th at 1700 MST.
A reminder about Iron Throne support: All support must be done via PM (either MTGS or discord), and can be changed as many times as you wish up until twilight is announced.[/b]
Hi Shin let's chat. Do you still think I am scum? Who are all your red reads right now?
My red reads are:
Rodemy
Cantrip
1053 mostly because if his most recent plan suggestion
Other people I be ok lynching are
GF
Hunger
As for you the read has diminished over time, however i wish you would get your head out of your ass about me being scum.
I do not believe my head is in my ass in any way.
You believe scum Rodemy tried to murder you in broad daylight? Crier? What's the theory?
I don't believe hes crier, I just believe hes a mafia that has a day vig. The crier was Re theory not mine. I've never played with rodemy so I can't get in his head about whys and why not's.
Rodemy
Cantrip
1053 mostly because if his most recent plan suggestion
Other people I be ok lynching are
GF
Hunger
As for you the read has diminished over time, however i wish you would get your head out of your ass about me being scum.
I do not believe my head is in my ass in any way.
You believe scum Rodemy tried to murder you in broad daylight? Crier? What's the theory?
I don't believe hes crier, I just believe hes a mafia that has a day vig. The crier was Re theory not mine. I've never played with rodemy so I can't get in his head about whys and why not's.
Followup: Why would scum!Rod try to daykill town!you instead of just push for your lynch?
Grr asking the important questions here.
Here’s why I did it: shinchi was being scumread by a lot of people. He was close to lynch. So instead of ending the day with ONE scum dead... why not go for TWO scum dead.
Rather I should say im totally into that but just dont feel great about his chances of flipping mafia
Kinda wanna vote chris rn tbh but there's no chance im actually lynching him d1 so don't think theres much point.
Think ill just roll with my 1053/lngrr/vaimes towncore, side of shin/rod/hr/kami who are *probably* town
I do still think last is most likely within faction, but its not by a huge amount really and folks are right that's probably not the most reliable method rn but I don't really have stronger scumreads so im fine with it as a vote for now, but lets say I'll be paying attention to any juicy looking cases/scumreads
There's, like, nothing wrong with Chris' initial reasoning for pushing shin.
But at this point there's a bunch of people telling him "no that's not meaningful for shin" and he's just sticking his fingers in his ears going "nope town doesn't do that" and I'm really missing the curiosity/nimbleness to his reads/etc
I'm not even sure if shins alignment matters to this
There's, like, nothing wrong with Chris' initial reasoning for pushing shin.
But at this point there's a bunch of people telling him "no that's not meaningful for shin" and he's just sticking his fingers in his ears going "nope town doesn't do that" and I'm really missing the curiosity/nimbleness to his reads/etc
I'm not even sure if shins alignment matters to this
I'm not sure that really says anything about the Chris either as a player, because all his reads to him are like cop checks...
I mean he could very well be scum, but him being stingy based on meta or in general isn't necessarily a scum tell
no, town chris has read movement.
It's still early he doesn't need to have changed anything yet but, like i expect some indication of thought
I would like to point out 1) I was in the hospital two days ago Tom you are a savage I love it and 2) I have to my knowledge asked for reasoning from people who say shin is town so you are completely full of *****.
Asked Grape. Disagreed. Followed up with LW and asked some stuff. If someone has said reasoning I havent considered let's hear it but I am I'll not ignoring things. Do not make up lies. It wont end well for you.
Also I would like to point out I am a man of peace with just a town PM and a dream. I see there is a lot of history with Shin and others again I dont know the guy just he doesnt smell town. Often my fresh perspective can be useful when meta gets stale.
Also Wisp why do you describe me like I am a bird of prey?
Tom just doesn't know how to play Town Chris don't hold it against him.
In fairness. After last game this does check out so fair enough.
does it?
I had 4 main scumreads and 3 flipped scum, and then good setupgaming for the 4th that ran afoul by townreading rod.
That's, like, objectively pretty good obviously would be better not to townread any scum but yeah
Tom pretty much hit all of the scum except one, and Chris justified his Lynch by saying, "you cant just repeat I am obvious town"...
Both Chris and Tom, who respectively saved the game from different angles, were both Lynch, not killed, pretty much losing us the game... How the **** is that for ironic
All this shade is just weird
its super weird
Idk i dont have a need to be better than chris or anyone really but i dont like being belittled when i dont deserve it
Like if you wanna talk ***** there was a mash when i literally townread 10 wolves
I think HR is scum. His last posts triggered me to pull up his iso.
His posts show too much focus on mechanics to my liking, and there's a lot of iioa going on. I’m not sure how to explain this, but when he went for Lngr, it seemed like he wasn’t really trying to convince town that Lngr was scum.
I need to look at where his votes fall on the wagons, because reading them isolated, they feel bandwagony.
Not really feeling trying to include this in a big multiquote, but it feels relevant as something he's pushing with Shinichi at main wagon at the time maybe.
I think HR is scum. His last posts triggered me to pull up his iso.
His posts show too much focus on mechanics to my liking, and there's a lot of iioa going on. I’m not sure how to explain this, but when he went for Lngr, it seemed like he wasn’t really trying to convince town that Lngr was scum.
I need to look at where his votes fall on the wagons, because reading them isolated, they feel bandwagony.
All votes and unvotes must be bolded to count. (And color is helpful but not necessary)
V/LA
Sir Chris through May 9th
Killjoy through the week
Lastwhisper through the week (semi V/LA)
Shinichi from May 9th-10th
With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is May 14th at 1700 MST.
A reminder about Iron Throne support: All support must be done via PM (either MTGS or discord), and can be changed as many times as you wish up until twilight is announced.
I need to look at where his votes fall on the wagons, because reading them isolated, they feel bandwagony.
Umm... Hey Rhand? How can something feel bandwagony in isolation? Isn't the whole idea of a bandwagon that the votes are made in response to someone having other votes made on them? So how can you have an isolated bandwagon? Isn't that an oxymoron?
he's calling you bandwagony while also scumreading you for voting last instead of joining the bigger wagon on grape...
But last and grape both look like they know shin is gonna flip town and if one of them is scum i would take that as stronger evidence than anything about shins posting
I'm reading something with regards to LastWhisper. He's absolutely playing some kind of a game. The question is whether it's hedging on Shinichi being town and saying, "SEE?! I TOLD YOU SO!" or if it's him trying to defend a fellow mafia.
Either way, I'm going to go ahead with Unvote, Vote LastWhisper.
Was also thinking about 1053 earlier.
I saw a post that i thought illustrated some disparate experience levels. Specifically he made a post where he was, like, reading someone on tone and it specifically sounded like a fairly experienced player just falling back on gut amd i just cant decide if that makes sense for a recent transplant
@everyone that seems to misunderstand what I am saying: that post of HR is what made me pull his ISO and his ISO is what made me vote him.
But I need time to dig into it more because I only read him in isolation and have to research the context of his votes to be sure.
@whoever asked me to give opinions on everyone: I can't. I am not in the possibility of catching up. I do what I can to keep up with current events and try to pull an ISO here and there (so far Grape and HR), and that's all I can do for now.
forgot I was getting my wisdom teeth out tomorrow I am the worst.
Anyway I have a busy day today before being drugged af this weekend so any questions let me know and I will try to clarify. Dont agree with grape votes scum are rarely so bold as to attack me directly like he did.
grape attacked you?
He flat out called my shin attacks stupid and bad.
I'm working myself through Shin's ISO. I have a presentation coming up and tomorrow a very full day, so it might take me a while.
@HR: I said the votes FEEL bandwagony, not that they are. I said in that same post that I had to look at context, which I will do when I find time.
Why are you so defensive? It's one vote. It's not like you're about to be lynched.
About the Grape / LW vote choice: that has nothing to do with me thinking your other votes feel bandwagony. The reason that that pinged me and made me look at your iso is that we are nearing EOD and you choose the shorter wagon of your two suspects to place your vote.
Shinichi, dv, and rhand have all made leaps now that don't quite work progression/thought process -wise
Shin on rod, dv on grape, rhand on highroller.
Prolly some minor ones too... last on shin, Kami on me, grape on RE?
There's some wolves mentioned in this post probably
vote tom
This is a whole lot of unfounded shade on multiple players.
sup
I shaded no one this is a summary post of other people's pushes but I don't think mentioning 6 players (including the 3 major wagons of the day) and saying there's scum in there would even count as shade?
Anyway only name in there im scumreading rn is last I'm unsure on DV/grape after this whole thing they're doing and im townreading shin and kami...
RE exists as well I guess
If you’re townreading most of them, why even bother to make that post?
summation?
Thinking out loud?
See whod respond?
Like everything i do has a purpose but that doesnt mean i have any plan for what that purpose is
Also the 6th was you not RE
Same read though: idk.
Id like to see what comes of your highroller read (is the answer "nah ive moved on to tom"?) and id like to see RE come to, yknow, A Conclusion...
I think im always, as wisp puts it, obnoxiously neutral. And the combination of having extra ways to win and just... weak reads is compounding it.
I dont think im adrift though. Looking at playerlist I think im in a fine place.
Ive got 7 people i dont currently want dead. Not quite half. (Kami/vaimes/cantrip/shin/lngrr/hr/1053)
If you add the "alright i guess not day 1" (chris/hunger/rod/re) im down to 7 candidates
Rhand/grape/tubba/johnny/last/kj/dv
Im aggressively null on rhand/tubba/johnny/kj
Grape/dv has a moderate to decent chance to contain a wolf
Last is scummy
Uh vaimes
lngrr/1053/cantrip
kami/hr/shin
re/hunger
rhand/kj
grape/dv/chris/last
Moving chris down to my read instead of my likelihood of lynching him day 1
Removing rod/gj/tubba because literal nothing
No one in orange or red, separating positive from negative nulls (dark amd light gray) maybe those are reads
Getting a really strong vibe last knows shins flipping town
Well, LastWhisper is definitely playing some kind of game with the Shinichi wagon. Right now he seems to either be positioning himself to say Shinichi was town all along should Shinichi flip, or he's throwing himself under the bus to spare his fellow mafia member.
Either way, it involves LastWhisper being mafia. Vote LastWhisper. Glad this is getting traction again.
I think we might be facing a LW + Shin + HR world with awkward bussing situations.
V/LA
Sir Chris through May 13th
Rodemy through May 12th
With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is May 14th at 1700 MST.
A reminder about Iron Throne support: All support must be done via PM (either MTGS or discord), and can be changed as many times as you wish up until twilight is announced.
Hot take: Wisp isn't scum. I'm looking at his ISO and I think this is regular ole Wisp; Not really scum with anyone, same tone I've always seen from him.
Also hot take: Rhand is. His process is off. He feels like he thinks he needs a scumread. I don't think his read on HR feels genuine.
I do not believe this is how Rhand scumreads people.
Hot take: Wisp isn't scum. I'm looking at his ISO and I think this is regular ole Wisp; Not really scum with anyone, same tone I've always seen from him.
Also hot take: Rhand is. His process is off. He feels like he thinks he needs a scumread. I don't think his read on HR feels genuine.
I do not believe this is how Rhand scumreads people.
Vote Rhand
I think his read on HR is genuine, and wtf does scum!Rhand get out of voting HR? Like if he had an agenda, than HR would not be the optimal choice...
MAybe it's the scumread he can justify most? IDK. Scum don't always act optimally.
I just kinda know how Rhand plays and this ain't it.
Hot take: Wisp isn't scum. I'm looking at his ISO and I think this is regular ole Wisp; Not really scum with anyone, same tone I've always seen from him.
Also hot take: Rhand is. His process is off. He feels like he thinks he needs a scumread. I don't think his read on HR feels genuine.
I do not believe this is how Rhand scumreads people.
Vote Rhand
I also thought Rhand was sketchy. From one of my previous posts: "@Rhand, you’re killing me with all these questions. I haven’t been noting any specific posts, but in general I notice that you love asking leading questions without really contributing your own reads. To me, that’s a scummy move. Like there was one post where you were like ‘if we kill shin and he flips town, does that mean wisp is automatically scum?’ Not sure if you were trying to set him up to be the next lynch without looking like you ever pushed him because you have insider knowledge/know shin will flip town. In any case, instead of saying #1110, how about telling us what you think wisps defense of shin says about their alignment. "
Thought he wouldn't get any votes though so didn't bother, but willing to vote if it can actually become a legit wagon.
As far as Rhand goes, I feel like I'm pretty good at getting a sense for his alignment without necessarily being able to put it into words. Usually it helps to see who's pushing on him, when, and how. I'm willing to give him the BOTD given that it doesn't really feel to me like he's using his catch-up status to hide.
As far as Rhand goes, I feel like I'm pretty good at getting a sense for his alignment without necessarily being able to put it into words. Usually it helps to see who's pushing on him, when, and how. I'm willing to give him the BOTD given that it doesn't really feel to me like he's using his catch-up status to hide.
I don't think Rhand would do that. Rhand dislikes that he can't participate as much as he wants to, and as such would hate not doing things.
Think it's pretty important to read through, think my quote selections do a decent job of highlighting possibly relevant stuff. Turns out ignoring all the dead villagers makes for a pretty interesting read tbh - I recommend maybe trying it.
So only posts I'm seeing on d1 are: Myself, Tom, Vaimes, KJ, Shin, Chris, Rod/XY, Rhand. Can see every wolf post, and every living player post towards wolves.
It just removes a ton of the d1 clutter, like Last and DV, and condenses it down to more relevant things.
I have some pretty strong thoughts through page 30, but don't want to bias whoever else looks at this.
30-35. More spicy eod1 stuff with Shinichi/Rhand involved. Looks good for some people, less good for others. Chime in with who I'm talking about. Please?
@DV
Can you just summarize where your reads are at in a lean list?
@Rodemy
You don't need to be discussed as of yet, no point in derailing the thread because you selfishly want people to respond on what they perceive your alignment to be
DV thinking he can read me after the fiasco that was our last game together worries me. I think his Iron Bank claim makes him likely town, but I have my eye on him.
KJ is likely town for scumreading me. It’s kind of funny how every game we play together he thinks he figured out my playstyle, and he’s wrong about my alignment almost every time.
Haven’t had time to look further into HR nor to finish Shin’s iso. I probably won’t be able to before deadline.
Who was it that said LW gets defeateist when he’s town and not when he’s scum? Grape? Do you have examples of that?
@RE: Because they’re very different players.
I think scum!KJ would never pick a fight with me. At least not this early in the game. Town!KJ always finds some reason to think I am scum. I can’t count the number of times he has claimed he figured me out.
DV pushed for my lynch in our last game as town extremely hard and was wrong. That should give town!DV enough pause to not scumread me off the bat like this.
That, @Highroller:, was me thinking "Hey, maybe Shadow was playing around when Rod did his daykill (or was faking one) to just add flavor to the game. And he just decided not to do it for anyone elses just cuz. Maybe it doesn't have game relevence."
So I did a boldy thing to see what kinda response I would get. Turns out Rod is not faking using an ability.
With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is May 14th at 1700 MST. Approximately 28.5 hours from now.
A reminder about Iron Throne support: All support must be done via PM (either MTGS or discord), and can be changed as many times as you wish up until twilight is announced.
Sure i get it its hard to read lasts posts and remember his claim
Me, last, shin, kj are starks
One win con is eliminating 2 lannisters and/or freys.
lol spoiler containing spoilers
pretty sure that means
Rhand is walder
Cersei/jaime/tyrion itg? Maybe 4 and they got tywin? Shuffle around a little? 3 seems most likely number though
Last is arya
So me/shin/kj some number of (age order) nedd, catelyn, robb, Jon, sansa, bran, rickon
Maybe dire wolves
So anyway. Think the most likely setup here is 2 groups of 4, one mafia in each group. Statistically, obviously. But more importantly, balance-wise. As its a way for scum to be able to use the alt wincons to their advantage.
Which actually means rhand is less likely scum since it would be one of the lannisters...
Don't really understand the Rhand push, or how it'll help solve any of the mess this Day has become. At best it's an alt wincon push, at worst it's a town counterwagon.
Buuut also don't feel strongly enough about it to push elsewhere, especially with less than a day left. Will only vote to prevent No Lynch etc.
Trying to die is against our alternate wincons. Self voting is additionally antitown. Please stop.
I'd really like to lynch Rhand. I'm not sure about Cantrip, but if I read correctly, no way. I could vote Grape I suppose. I keep ISOing him and keep not being against his lynch.
I'm not for a Last lynch, obviously. He's town I think. HR I think might be too. I'm having some doubts about 1053.
Not Voting (4): Shinichi, Cantripmancer, Hunger, Grapefruit21
With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is May 14th at 1700 MST. Approximately 17 hours from now.
A reminder about Iron Throne support: All support must be done via PM (either MTGS or discord), and can be changed as many times as you wish up until twilight is announced.
Not Voting (4): Shinichi, Cantripmancer, Hunger, Grapefruit21
With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is May 14th at 1700 MST. Approximately 17 hours from now.
A reminder about Iron Throne support: All support must be done via PM (either MTGS or discord), and can be changed as many times as you wish up until twilight is announced.
These wagons...
Mine: KJ who always thinks I’m scum, tom who doesn’t think I’m scum, DV who claims he can read me while he can’t and two bandwagon voters.
LW: me who no longer thinks he’s scum, HR who is probably scum, Rodemy who is probably town with the daykill and Tubba.
Shinichi: Chris with a good case and Vaimes who is probably town
HR: GJ and LW, who I both think are town.
Grape and Cantrip are throwaway votes and then there’s 4 not voting.
With the risk of getting lynched myself, I’m going to join my townreads and vote Highroller
@RE
and I'm the one who makes scummy comments... :kappa:
You're someone I'm literally only not voting right now because of your AtE. Not to mention, your role is a detriment to town.
Oh, I guess I'm not doing a very good job at selling your kill. Oops.
exactly how is an ascetic detrimental to town? does it suck in night actions like a vacuum? or does it simply affect one person?
your lack of empathy is odd to say the least
I don't like ascetic roles. According to what you claimed, only killing abilities will work on you. Your alignment isn't confirmed based on what you claimed, it'll be difficult to even confirm you're telling the truth about your ability, and it's just overall a useless role for town.
But if its a town role, why get rid of it on d1? Why lynch wisp just to confirm his alignment? Like if you think hes town, being harmful to town shouldnt matter aslong as he wins with the town right?
I don't like ascetic roles.
ok According to what you claimed, only killing abilities will work on you.
yes, that's what I said, thanks Your alignment isn't confirmed based on what you claimed, it'll be difficult to even confirm you're telling the truth about your ability
ohh so I get it, you're saying due to your lack of skill this game, and inability to read me, that I should just die because I can never be mechanically confirmed it's just overall a useless role for town.
didn't know mechanics defined someone's worth, I have been enlightened
I have no control over how you're choosing to play this game. Even you've admitted that you're being petty, not to mention arrogant, and *that* makes you difficult to read, and play with.
I like being arrogant, and I like my empty reads, its how I like to play, its a style that gets people talking, when I feel like expanding my reads I will do so
I hate you, but this is def a town version of my brother. He did the right thing by claiming he was ascetic though i wish he had done it at the start of the game. The longer you waited espically with all the eyes on you just made it seem like a lie. That is when you finally claimed the passive.
I think all of the top wagons are townie... And I have no opinion on Cantrip... This is a joke. I guess the starks advancing their win con is probably going to force the Rhand wagon through but I don't particularly think he's scum. Wisp's saltiness makes me want to vote him but I think he's town.
Vote: KA
His joining the Rhand wagon when it doesn't advance his alt win con feels dirty. Let's do this.
I don't know about Rhand, i could easily vote there due to what i have recently been reading. However I won't help with a KA lynch if your leading it, if you can entertain me though with more details on your vote. Besides the playing dirty with his vite, because that alone doesnt make someone scum.
I don't really think Rhand is flipping scum. His mechanical speculation feels townie. He literally outted himself as a faction that another faction would want to target, which was bound get more votes. That's just a bad move as scum. If you need my vote there, you'll have it though.
And I'm not voting Wisp solely because it'd go against my policy. I lied earlier. I'd feel insanely terrible if he flipped town.
Then what was with all the back n forth wishy-washy? Your entire interaction wasn't needed if the outcome was just going to be that final line. Also couldn't he have specifically outted that information just so people could come to that exact conclusion getting him a town read.
Not Voting (4): Shinichi, Cantripmancer, Hunger, Grapefruit21
You guys need to stop clowning around. Either vote Rhand or vote LastWhisper. Preferably the latter, but freaking vote one of those two so we can get a lynch in, ffs.
So many better people to vote though, why does the day have to end with these 2 as top trains?
I don't really think Rhand is flipping scum. His mechanical speculation feels townie. He literally outted himself as a faction that another faction would want to target, which was bound get more votes. That's just a bad move as scum. If you need my vote there, you'll have it though.
And I'm not voting Wisp solely because it'd go against my policy. I lied earlier. I'd feel insanely terrible if he flipped town.
Then what was with all the back n forth wishy-washy? Your entire interaction wasn't needed if the outcome was just going to be that final line. Also couldn't he have specifically outted that information just so people could come to that exact conclusion getting him a town read.
Should've reloaded the thread, also, I'm ok with voting Grape, but he's not my first choice, and I will change votes to achieve a lynch, but I like where I am
With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is May 14th at 1700 MST. Approximately 7 hours from now.
A reminder about Iron Throne support: All support must be done via PM (either MTGS or discord), and can be changed as many times as you wish up until twilight is announced.
RE was jealous I didn't join her faction? KJ and Wisp are playing against their (alt) win cons?
kj has been prostark so far afaict
Last doesnt seem to be playing to any win conditions
Shin is representing that hes only going for town wincon which id call objectively fake/scummy for most people but shin... lolidk
I just don't trust that we could get a cfd to Rhand before deadline. I've tried twice today to get a wagon on him and only ones made any progress. But not enough. It was between Rhand and Grape with a side order of re based on behavior. But obviously, that wasn't a thing.
1053 is a person I'll look at now closely tomorrow.
Weird things about the scumteam if shinichi is scum:
Knew winds was vig/sk, possibly as early as n1, and never blocking or killing him. Theres technically a shin/winds team but. Nah.
Chris' main impact would have been bussing. I know he sucked this game but seriously was pushing vaimes his only times playing to his wincon?
Rod used half a vig shot on him. Actually that sounds exactly like the sort of thing scumrod comes up with nevermind
He just... kept clearing people. Like, hes apparently happily clearing me and kj of being rb...
Also presumably he could have blocked kj. Or at least claimed he was blocked and leave my role up in the air?
Idk he had so many options and steadily hasn't taken them.
None of this is that compelling...
well the whole being sk didnt click till after about n2-n3. If i had realized that sooner I would have pushed it much harder, had just assumed he was a regular vigilante.
There's a roleblock unaccounted for. It's targeted GJ, me, and maybe someone N1 but no one claimed. It's probably scum.
It doesn't appear connected to who we target. GJ claimed targets that do not seem to suggest some kind of Scum Vengeful Roleblocker nor an Ascetic. Also I, as King was RB'd and I have priority so that furthers that. They have to be active.
For that reason, I'm currently thinking either Vaimes>Tom. Shin has successfully rolecopped people every night and claimed them before they died. He has to be what he's claimed.
There COULD be a factional rolecop. I'd assume it follows the same rules as the kill, meaning it's assigned. The OP says the factional kill is assigned and can be used alongside other abilities.
Actually, just checked the OP... "There is a limit of one night action per player per night. The Mafia Factional Night Kill does not count towards this limit." N4 is weird if Shin is scum then, because why forgo a kill to block me and rolecop me? Instead of just... killing me? Or something better? Killing a widely townread person like Vaimes or the claimed SK or something (which he knew about because he copped him earlier).
Shin: When you got Wind's role, did you see the part that excludes him form targeting Starks?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Winds: You just read his whole ISO. Do you think you could find a post buried in there? You'd probably find it quicker than me.It's a reference to Ghost being in this game before you claimed it.
Something about wanting to lynch anyone but his doggo or something of that nature IIRC
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Yes, but no roleblock happened, too.
Which raises your equity of being the wolf/role-blocking wolf.
Like. If they blocked KJ the night previously, why did they not block him last night?
Next night: Roleblocker was not lynched, and therefore still alive. Killjoy was still the king, but wasn't roleblocked.
What does this mean?
Sadly I don't have an answer for that.
mega shrug
I mean. The other possibility is the roleblocker is yourself or Tom! Or KJ faked being roleblocked the previous night.
There is like 0 world where mafia is in vaimes, it just doesn't make sense. I would easily vote KJ, let me find how who he roleblocked though.
so who else did u block besides vaimes?
You claimed KJ does not have a roleblock if he's not on the throne, right?
Who roleblocked GJ on nights KJ was not on the throne?
I aint sure, all i know is what my pm told me.
Knew winds was vig/sk, possibly as early as n1, and never blocking or killing him. Theres technically a shin/winds team but. Nah.
Chris' main impact would have been bussing. I know he sucked this game but seriously was pushing vaimes his only times playing to his wincon?
Rod used half a vig shot on him. Actually that sounds exactly like the sort of thing scumrod comes up with nevermind
He just... kept clearing people. Like, hes apparently happily clearing me and kj of being rb...
Also presumably he could have blocked kj. Or at least claimed he was blocked and leave my role up in the air?
Idk he had so many options and steadily hasn't taken them.
None of this is that compelling...
Behaviorally, I wish this wasn't my problem to figure out.
Tom, did GJ ever claim his checks the night he was roleblocked?
Was thinking maybe he targeted someone that died with the strongman and it roleblocked him with that, or something, but no.
N1 tom (success)
N2 tom (roleblocked)
N3 shinichi (roleblocked)
N4 winds (so he told me, but that would mean youd have been roleblocked unless he was but kj was?)
See that's where it gets kinda ****y. I just submitted my kill as 'kill a random stark so it fizzles/holster/whatever', but didn't get a roleblocked message. Possible Shadow just let me holster instead of actually shooting a teammate for it to fail, since that night was the night I was supposed to holster as per agreement with Rhand. (Probably for the best as I think I don't think I'd have hit a wolf).
Those are some weird targets though. Shinichi, really? Huh.
It might kill me inside, but I'd love to have a multi-iso with Chris, Rhand, Rodemy, X=Y, KJ and Shin, and no one else.
Technology!
Holy ***** you're a genius.
I mean I'll just block everyone else on this account and then unblock them after I do my read
God, you have no idea how fast my heart sunk upon getting the replace PM and opening up thread only to see this on like post 5 of the game.
Back when i played on a computer
Like **** I remember all the twitch account names and passwords I have to make. Gimmicks are one game adventures with the changes to the site.
#NoOneCaresAboutDeadVillagers
Let's do this.
Mostly southerners
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Not Voting (5): Shinichi, tomsloger, Killjoy, Thousand_Winds, Vaimes
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch. Deadline is June 19th at 1400 MST.
A reminder about Iron Throne support: All support must be done via PM (either MTGS or discord), and can be changed as many times as you wish up until twilight is announced. I strongly recommend queuing it up sooner than later.
Not really feeling trying to include this in a big multiquote, but it feels relevant as something he's pushing with Shinichi at main wagon at the time maybe.
Think it's pretty important to read through, think my quote selections do a decent job of highlighting possibly relevant stuff. Turns out ignoring all the dead villagers makes for a pretty interesting read tbh - I recommend maybe trying it.
So only posts I'm seeing on d1 are: Myself, Tom, Vaimes, KJ, Shin, Chris, Rod/XY, Rhand. Can see every wolf post, and every living player post towards wolves.
It just removes a ton of the d1 clutter, like Last and DV, and condenses it down to more relevant things.
I have some pretty strong thoughts through page 30, but don't want to bias whoever else looks at this.
well the whole being sk didnt click till after about n2-n3. If i had realized that sooner I would have pushed it much harder, had just assumed he was a regular vigilante.
There's a roleblock unaccounted for. It's targeted GJ, me, and maybe someone N1 but no one claimed. It's probably scum.
It doesn't appear connected to who we target. GJ claimed targets that do not seem to suggest some kind of Scum Vengeful Roleblocker nor an Ascetic. Also I, as King was RB'd and I have priority so that furthers that. They have to be active.
For that reason, I'm currently thinking either Vaimes>Tom. Shin has successfully rolecopped people every night and claimed them before they died. He has to be what he's claimed.
There COULD be a factional rolecop. I'd assume it follows the same rules as the kill, meaning it's assigned. The OP says the factional kill is assigned and can be used alongside other abilities.
Actually, just checked the OP... "There is a limit of one night action per player per night. The Mafia Factional Night Kill does not count towards this limit." N4 is weird if Shin is scum then, because why forgo a kill to block me and rolecop me? Instead of just... killing me? Or something better? Killing a widely townread person like Vaimes or the claimed SK or something (which he knew about because he copped him earlier).
Shin: When you got Wind's role, did you see the part that excludes him form targeting Starks?
Something about wanting to lynch anyone but his doggo or something of that nature IIRC