@Hr, I had a post that xplained way I thought GF was the most likely scum on my wagon. And I also already noted that I tend to scumread you in games and it throws my solving off, since you pretty much never seem the end of actually read what's written and take them in skewed directions.
That doesn't mean you are scum though, which is why I am not voting you. I realize that my ability to read you isn't that great.
The problem I have with it is that in order to think that I am mafia/3rd party, you have to also think I am stupid and would willingly just offer that up. As someone who has claimed first post yourself, I am surprised you think that me giving up that info freely makes me more likely to be scum. Also, in order to fit this around me being scum, you also have the assume I am a bad player, which frankly I won't take kindly to anyways.
@Rhand, I can't tell if GF still being hung up on me being factionless is more likely to come from scum trying to keep a line of attack open on town with blinders on. Thoughts?
That explains Lngr, but not your first reaction to me?
You basically town-cleared me for it. Why?
And your musing about possible solo factions sounded very much like you didn’t expect solo factions. Were you planning on hiding that? And why?
Saying you are significantly greater than rand to be town isn't the same as town clearing but your point is fair. It wasn't entirely about you claiming it (though that factored in {Unlike LnG I actually believe you would never have just outed it without thought}) it was also about the way you handled DV's fake claim. I felt scum you would have been x% more likely to have know it was fake and >x% more likely to have not just taken it in stride and not spin it into a push immediately.
And I was intentionally obfuscating my loner status. And attempting to react as if I assumed everyone had faction mates. And I was hiding it because I like my cards close to the chest.
@highroller
So u don't agree with Chris's reason on why Grr is probably town? Also why are you so much more aggressive then in DiTF, I read that game for a while even after dying, and I didn't see this same level of caring
Still quite sure shin is just a mislynch, I'm kinda getting the same feelings of Grape, but like idk who to push...
In a theme like GoT I will say I would be incredibly shocked if all of these solo faction/no faction/two faction (is tom the only one so far?) are all town.
Here's what I am thinking:
If there is a third party it is within a solo faction/no faction
Probably scum in there if there is no third party
I don't trust Tom as far as I can throw him because he is clearly angling pretty hard for certain lynches and that shouldn't go unnoticed. He can claim that "oh yeah I have a good faith belief this person is scum" but he has already admitted to playing to another wincon, which is fine I have those too but I am hoping I can accomplish mine while going about the normal course of the game.
Also I am kind of sure if we all just full claimed and ignored our faction we win easily since the amount of meta info we could get based off of wincons is likely epic but I am GUESSING that goes against the fun of the game.
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Also I think a lot of the people making excuses for Shin are good faith actors who see him as a not so good player and seek to protect him. Which I think is fine but mistaken in this case. Like it isn't just the "oh heh this is bad moment" but his follow ups with me have been tense from my tonal read of them. Like he really wants to shake me off. Also despite me voting him after the fact I haven't felt any genuine intent from him to maybe want to murder me, despite me being a red read of his. Like I have been a bit out of it but to my knowledge he didn't claim omgus or anything like that which in theory could have been applied.
I'd have to take full inventory after the flip but I bet only one buddy has actively defended shin if he is indeed mafia, while others just were like "heh heh let's vote someone else" which will also be looked into.
Or he is town and this is awkward but hey trust the process!
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I still hate that Shin hasn't really instantiated on his scum read on Rodemy, like I can argue he's town for my reasons and how shallow they may is quite subjective, but for the most part he hasn't pointed out anything that was really scummy from him, which is weird since even I pointed out posts I didn't like him Rodemy who I initially had as a lock town from his entrance
That's still the problem I have, like Shin is arguing that not only is my read shallow, but that Rodemy is scummy... and he still has yet to place his vote
You can't really deny that it looks like he's creating a narrative @Grape
I and you both know we are treating him different for the sake of who he is, not due to his context, mechanically, like usual, he is quite scummy. I think his overall attitude is towny outside of that, and I will employ different tactics to read my brother even though I initially jumped on him
I would rather in the meantime, focus on other people, if we are dead set on lynching Shin, we still have 8 other days to find other scum (if he is scum), and Shin has been the forefront of many pages, which at this point it's just pointless to continue this conversation
I prob should go build on at that some more instead of just being all talk XD. Well, you prob can't argue he's town except for the fact that he's a vigilante, its highly possible for rod to be a mafia day shot vig or whatever you would call it. I ain't sure how likely that is though, so it's like do I still scum read him or not? No narrative, I just haven't felt the need to vote is all. You could also use this argument on the 3 other people I scum read or at least had red in my read list.
1) It tests cooperation. You have already shown that you don't believe in it and heavily hinted at what you do at baseline in a prisoner's dilemma situation. Info gained whether or not people agree to do the plan.
2) Scum have to make the difficult decision about whether they should intentionally give up power or take the risk. Killing the throne gives us info about the scum either way. Seeing who they intentionally targeted also gives a lot of information. Also, giving probably a scum team of 4 one extra vote now when there are 15 town is not that big of a deal. Again, not going to discuss possibilities or how I would interpret every single outcome in detail before we see who gets the throne--I'll do that regardless and, as you've already pointed out, telling scum exactly how you're going to react is just giving them unnecessary information. Unless of course, you're scum and are digging for extra information?
I don't see how this of any help though I feellike this is more of a bait than an actual plan. Which I don't like how at the end you scum read someone off of some plan that probabaly won't work.
1053: First, DV recanted the entirety of the claim, not just the neutral alignment.
I dislike the idea that we "get information on scum" if we kill the iron throne and it's town. What info do we get? How is this worth a wasted day? What do we do the next time?
And the extra vote is the least interesting part of the Iron Throne. Whoever's on the Iron Throne can't have their abilities interrupted. That means if scum get the throne, any town protective role is effectively disabled. This is what we should be worried about, not the extra vote.
Interesting I actually missed the last part, it really make the iron throne strong in the hands of mafia. I aint to worried aslong as vaimes or someone else i town read gets voted.
@Everyone
What are your scum leans outside Shinichi, if he even is one?
Shinichi
Grape
Cantrip
HR?
Honestly Grape telling me I'm wrong on Shinichi with little to no evidence reinforces that I'm right because the majority of the disagreements where I scum read someone and he defends them I'm right.
When have you been right about me? Unless your refering to grape fruit which is pretty accurate based on how I see him play every single game. I wouldn't mind a grapefruit lynch at some point but at the same time hes kinda just playing the nice town.
Hi Shin let's chat. Do you still think I am scum? Who are all your red reads right now?
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@Shinichi
holy ****, you are not reading this game... what outted neutrals are you talking about lmao
@RE
the noob town vibes were definitely applicable in the past, and not so much now
I agree that a lot of his stuff is just fancy talk, and not much of anything else, and I don't even agree with his whole "throne" plan
What is your stance on Shin now? Can you get your vote off me you potato... I am not scum here
Didn't DV claim neutral or did he retract the claim? Also somewhere else I read there was another tpr claim unless I am missing something?
May I ask why you are confident precisely (if you have said so before. please forgive me I was bedridden all of yesterday) also why I should take your confidence as credible? What is your history and accuracy with Shin?
I've played probably 8ish games with Shin. After reading him incorrectly for the first few I've been consistently able to arrive at his town game.
As for what gives me confidence it's a combination of tone, style, and substance. He feels relaxed in his tone hasn't shown any signs of tightness. While it isn't a fast rule he tends to stick more stringently to his out of date catch ups as town. As scum he's more prone towards real time interaction and focusing in on specific people. Which is slightly different to his town game which also shows a focus but is likely to be on people he's familiar and friendly with. Most importantly I think his more explained reads are likely to come from town. His HR stance of "he's wrong and feels townie but I don't want to commit to it while he's pushing wrong things" feels more like a town stance than a scum one. And his consistent bashing of multiple people reading more into Rod's opening is the right choice. Yes it's buried in a ton of text but the opinions there feel like an organic town mindset to me.
Ehh I think you give yourself too much credit my friend, you do realize its impossible to break my relaxed nature. I'll literally die before i freak out about anything. The rest of this statement I have to agree with though :D.
Hey Grapefruit so after reviewing your reasoning I disagree. I feel like Shin's responses to me have been pretty tight and I don't get a relaxed vibe at all. I guess we'll just have to have a battle of wits and personality to decide who will get their way.
@chris
Call it good faith or w/e, i still would rather him not be put 6' under today
Tell you what Wisp, give me a name I can get behind? You are voting for a not-mafia read of mine right now and you've played enough with me to know those reads are usually pretty good so if you are claiming "super bro knowledge" you are not the first brothers I have played with. Whatcha got for me?
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Hi Shin let's chat. Do you still think I am scum? Who are all your red reads right now?
My red reads are:
Rodemy
Cantrip
1053 mostly because if his most recent plan suggestion
Other people I be ok lynching are
GF
Hunger
As for you the read has diminished over time, however i wish you would get your head out of your ass about me being scum.
I do not believe my head is in my ass in any way.
You believe scum Rodemy tried to murder you in broad daylight? Crier? What's the theory?
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@chris
Call it good faith or w/e, i still would rather him not be put 6' under today
Tell you what Wisp, give me a name I can get behind? You are voting for a not-mafia read of mine right now and you've played enough with me to know those reads are usually pretty good so if you are claiming "super bro knowledge" you are not the first brothers I have played with. Whatcha got for me?
if I could give u something I would, I've been stuck in real time mode for a while, I don't have the time to reread anything due to the amount of work I have to finish, I'm just super lost tbh
Is your brother the type of player who gets voted by someone, tunneled essentially, and this makes him suspect them less? Because that's what he claimed happened here.
You really sure I don't have something? Cause admittedly I think you are too pure for this world right now with this defense but it doesn't add up to me.
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Because my mistake hinted at my not having a faction chat as I'd have known there was no day chat for those.
Hm ok. You’re caught solo then. Jippie.
If nothing else pops up, I’ll try to do more reading soon.
I have no other leads to go with :/
@Chris: who should I be voting and why?
unvote
I think I never unvoted my RVS vote.
1. Why did you ask me?
2. Shinichi. I believe he straight up contradicted himself to the point that no town could genuinely contradict that way (read my iso if you want the exact details) and since then he just keeps doing little things that I cannot reconcile with a genuine town mindset.
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@RE
the noob town vibes were definitely applicable in the past, and not so much now
I agree that a lot of his stuff is just fancy talk, and not much of anything else, and I don't even agree with his whole "throne" plan
What is your stance on Shin now? Can you get your vote off me you potato... I am not scum here
I'll try to be open as possible with my thoughts here.
I'm a weird player (person). One of my goals in mafia is to learn how to solve the game without ever needing to closely analyze or even read every post. That's because in every single game, there are certain behaviors mafia cannot avoid - in order for them to win, town must be lynched.
Generally speaking, there are two ways for town to be lynched. Either by fellow town, or through mafia powerwolfing. Powerwolfing is easier (less of a gamble) to recognize, as that player or players will be exposing themselves. If town is lynching town, however, mafia can either hop on or stay back.
Which brings me to a more relevant issue that's been weighing on my mind - I find you and Grape incredibly wolfy, but despite being under a large amount of suspicion, you are still among the most active players in the game.
So I'm in a dilemma. Do I lynch people I think are wolves (you and Grape), or do I make an attempt at hindsight and run with the possibility that scum are just laying back while town is fighting town? It is only day 1 and information is scarce. (Shinichi technically falls under this category, but I actually believe he's town).
So I'm going to think about it.
I think your look at mafia as a persona instead of looking at it for every individual person. I don't think there are things that will get scum caught all the time, it's entirely based on a person. I think I am a perfect example, in normal situations if someone were to contradict themselves as much as I do they would be lynched for being scum. I tend to get away with it because I'm an idiot at times XD. Also, Mafia to hop on a train still need to provide a reason, if their reason is poor it won't work.
Wisp will always be active that can't be read into, however that isn't a dilemma if you scum read someone that's where you should, for the most part, be lynching. Unless they can prove otherwise they're a town.
[quote from="shadowlancerx »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/809286-a-game-of-thrones-mafia-day-1-chaos-ensues?comment=823"]The mighty dragon Rodemy roars at Shinichi, flames in his throat. Shinichi cowers, and the dragon closes his mouth and flies away, leaving his would be prey to contemplate life just a while longer.
Nothing happens
This is where Rodemy's shot is made, and misses.
Going to voice a tinfoil now. This could easily be a crier ability of sorts, where you send the mod a message to be posted anonymously. Until someone dies from this claimed ability, I will not trust it.
Town crier is the role that can be used to have the mod send announcements in the thread no? If so its possible, what would have been is goal though? To try to get me off his suspicion by making me believe he is a vigilante?
I can say if he's scum he's not with LnGrrrR. Maybe not with Wisp.
Surprised you think i can be scum with DV after all our interactions. I don't follow your read on DV because everything hes done has just seem so natural except the fake claim not sure why he would do that. I would never vote DV on this day, but i can budge on future days.
Is your brother the type of player who gets voted by someone, tunneled essentially, and this makes him suspect them less? Because that's what he claimed happened here.
You really sure I don't have something? Cause admittedly I think you are too pure for this world right now with this defense but it doesn't add up to me.
I have a logical reason to believe that though, and games to back it up. Specifically 1 game with vaimes where he gave me a dumb town tell read and then flipped scum. Also had a few games were like this one I read the person pushing me as a town because I believe they could be a town.
I don't even necessarily agree with DV's read of Rodemy, but like if Rod really is a town big I don't want to Lynch him, and he should in most cases get nked...
V/LA
Sir Chris through May 9th
Killjoy through the week
Lastwhisper through the week (semi V/LA)
With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is May 14th at 1700 MST.
A reminder about Iron Throne support: All support must be done via PM (either MTGS or discord), and can be changed as many times as you wish up until twilight is announced.
I don't even necessarily agree with DV's read of Rodemy, but like if Rod really is a town big I don't want to Lynch him, and he should in most cases get nked...
@chris
What exactly are you asking me?
Is your brother the type of person as town to get less suspicious of someone as they push him hard?
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@Hr, I had a post that xplained way I thought GF was the most likely scum on my wagon. And I also already noted that I tend to scumread you in games and it throws my solving off, since you pretty much never seem the end of actually read what's written and take them in skewed directions.
That doesn't mean you are scum though, which is why I am not voting you. I realize that my ability to read you isn't that great.
The problem I have with it is that in order to think that I am mafia/3rd party, you have to also think I am stupid and would willingly just offer that up. As someone who has claimed first post yourself, I am surprised you think that me giving up that info freely makes me more likely to be scum. Also, in order to fit this around me being scum, you also have the assume I am a bad player, which frankly I won't take kindly to anyways.
You could just have some sort of agenda for all we know, but for the most part it shouldnt make you scum just on that information alone. I've only played one other game with you so i cant judge anything about your play here. So ill take everything with a grain of salt, mostly cause you don't like gf which is common grounds we have.
Hi Shin let's chat. Do you still think I am scum? Who are all your red reads right now?
My red reads are:
Rodemy
Cantrip
1053 mostly because if his most recent plan suggestion
Other people I be ok lynching are
GF
Hunger
As for you the read has diminished over time, however i wish you would get your head out of your ass about me being scum.
I do not believe my head is in my ass in any way.
You believe scum Rodemy tried to murder you in broad daylight? Crier? What's the theory?
I don't believe hes crier, I just believe hes a mafia that has a day vig. The crier was Re theory not mine. I've never played with rodemy so I can't get in his head about whys and why not's.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I don't even necessarily agree with DV's read of Rodemy, but like if Rod really is a town big I don't want to Lynch him, and he should in most cases get nked...
@chris
What exactly are you asking me?
Is your brother the type of person as town to get less suspicious of someone as they push him hard?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Hi Shin let's chat. Do you still think I am scum? Who are all your red reads right now?
My red reads are:
Rodemy
Cantrip
1053 mostly because if his most recent plan suggestion
Other people I be ok lynching are
GF
Hunger
As for you the read has diminished over time, however i wish you would get your head out of your ass about me being scum.
I do not believe my head is in my ass in any way.
You believe scum Rodemy tried to murder you in broad daylight? Crier? What's the theory?
I don't believe hes crier, I just believe hes a mafia that has a day vig. The crier was Re theory not mine. I've never played with rodemy so I can't get in his head about whys and why not's.
Followup: Why would scum!Rod try to daykill town!you instead of just push for your lynch?
Hi Shin let's chat. Do you still think I am scum? Who are all your red reads right now?
My red reads are:
Rodemy
Cantrip
1053 mostly because if his most recent plan suggestion
Other people I be ok lynching are
GF
Hunger
As for you the read has diminished over time, however i wish you would get your head out of your ass about me being scum.
I do not believe my head is in my ass in any way.
You believe scum Rodemy tried to murder you in broad daylight? Crier? What's the theory?
I don't believe hes crier, I just believe hes a mafia that has a day vig. The crier was Re theory not mine. I've never played with rodemy so I can't get in his head about whys and why not's.
Followup: Why would scum!Rod try to daykill town!you instead of just push for your lynch?
Grr asking the important questions here.
Here’s why I did it: shinchi was being scumread by a lot of people. He was close to lynch. So instead of ending the day with ONE scum dead... why not go for TWO scum dead.
You see ONE < TWO
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Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Hi Shin let's chat. Do you still think I am scum? Who are all your red reads right now?
My red reads are:
Rodemy
Cantrip
1053 mostly because if his most recent plan suggestion
Other people I be ok lynching are
GF
Hunger
As for you the read has diminished over time, however i wish you would get your head out of your ass about me being scum.
I do not believe my head is in my ass in any way.
You believe scum Rodemy tried to murder you in broad daylight? Crier? What's the theory?
I don't believe hes crier, I just believe hes a mafia that has a day vig. The crier was Re theory not mine. I've never played with rodemy so I can't get in his head about whys and why not's.
Followup: Why would scum!Rod try to daykill town!you instead of just push for your lynch?
why does town!rodemy claim his role day 1 just to shoot someone that could be town knowing he just put a target on his back?
Catching up is a slog. I can't stay focused on the last v shin stuff and mostly have skimmed it. I've "read" through page 16 and skimmed the rest. I'll go back and keep reading those pages, but need to get in the game. I'm feeling like a /spectator at this point. Spewing some stuff off the top of my head for now and will follow up with a couple notes I have in a bit.
Looks like the "slip" could not be there given Highroller's explanation, and since most people seem to have ignored it altogether, I'm willing to back off on it. However, I do still think the paragraph on the Iron Throne stuff in that post from Highroller is pretty weak. It reads like a template of what scum would say on their thoughts on the Throne without wanting to commit to anything, but feeling like they need to say something about it. It feels akin to something like, "we should try our best to use our power roles to benefit the town guys!" It's just sort of weird. On top of that his early game was really focused on trying to figure out how this game can work and the mechanics of it, so not knowing about daychat or the inability to self-vote feels like a disconnect in his approach on the game. I need to ISO him. I was leaning town on him before the "slip" and I don't remember anything else he has done as seeming scummy to me, so I might just be reading too much into this. I'll move him to neutral for now and want to ISO him. I also feel like I've sorta glossed over him v LnG and want to get better context on that.
Re:Rod "vig" attempt, I agree with -- I think it was RE -- saying basically it's nothing confirmed yet. It may be a vig shot, it may be something else, the conditions under which it works could be anything, so it is somewhat NAI until we see it resolve. The flavor does seem to imply something detrimental to living, so it's probably slightly more of a town lean. If he is town and it is a vig, it's probably self-resolving since scum will want to deal with a potential vig. I don't think having a dayvig makes him auto-town however.
Re:1053's spread vote plan - I am opposed, but not super strongly. I see the argument for it's benefits, but I think it's too risky due to how much ****ery could happen with it and potentially giving scum a free Day is not something I am keen on. I will probably touch on this again, but I think it adds to my town read on 1053 regardless.
I think Chris is a better vote than Vaimes for the Throne if it's between them. I'll always respect Chris's ability enough that I fear locking in a read on him as he could be playing a good scum game, but my gut so far is that he is town. I don't really have as much experience with Vaimes and nothing I remember has me one way or another on his alignment. Also, the fact that Vaimes has claimed it would help his alt wincon makes me less incentivized to want to help him do that at this point. I think? I still haven't totally thought through how I feel about and want to approach the alt wincons.
Hunger: What do you think of Grape forgetting his read on me? Also, if you think I'm being fake, why aren't you actively interacting with me instead of just making a passive statement about how fake you think I am?
I also said I wanted to reread that portion of the game and think about it more. I'm busy and the game is moving too fast so just trying to keep caught up for now. It was just a gut thing, not anything in particular that I think I caught something yet. I'll interact with you more if I actually have something to say and if I actually get time. Also, it seems disjointed from the flow of the game to put time in going off on something that is flimsy at best.
I'm lukewarm on Grape forgetting. It was kind of a random thought in the middle of another post so I could see him actually forgetting. It COULD be that it was disingenous and I think his thanking me for pointing it out is a bit weird. I liked Grape for town initially, but I also want to reread him because I know he actually has some content and multiple people are scumreading him.
I like Cantrip's 610 both in terms of his towniness and the reasoning to distrust Shin.
@Shin - In a typical game of mafia, do you think the town or the scum team have a better chance of winning? i.e. which traditional faction win-con is easier to acheive?
I'm liking Last for a town lean. Some pretty thought out posts in here despite me skimming a lot of them, and the fact he staked his scum read on LnG on his entrance, and then did the same for a town Rodemy read, but backed out of the town Rod read later is actual progression and makes me less worried about how adamant he was on the LnG scum read. He's shown he's willing to reason and change his reads. It probably would have been easier as scum to just stick to that and the progression feels genuine.
I like Chris's shin case. Particularly points 3 and 4 in the follow up in 709 after the initial case.
1053 can be town. See 753. As well as his thought process on his proposed split votes plan. I just don't see that formulating and being posted with a scum mindset, especially when scum have Daychat.
Not sure what to make of tom continually musing on the flavor/alt-wincons of his factions and how likely they are to contain scum. OP clearly states meta-gaming that will lead to a bad time and that it is random. Like he's trying to world-build on false assumptions. Like, sure, it makes sense to make the logical jump that if you have 4 people in your faction one of them is likely scum, but I feel like there is too much focus on it given that the OP states it will be random and it's equally likely to have or not have a scum in any given faction. Unless I'm misunderstanding the OP? At the same time it's a weird scum move to make as well, painting a target on his back if he is the scum in the faction. So likely he is town or he is scum with a buddy in that faction. I don't think tom is ever the sole scum in that faction.
Probably going to have to go read the shin stuff closer though since he is shaping up to be my top scum read...
Rather I should say im totally into that but just dont feel great about his chances of flipping mafia
Kinda wanna vote chris rn tbh but there's no chance im actually lynching him d1 so don't think theres much point.
Think ill just roll with my 1053/lngrr/vaimes towncore, side of shin/rod/hr/kami who are *probably* town
I do still think last is most likely within faction, but its not by a huge amount really and folks are right that's probably not the most reliable method rn but I don't really have stronger scumreads so im fine with it as a vote for now, but lets say I'll be paying attention to any juicy looking cases/scumreads
@hunger
Lots of words, but like I want stances not all this hedging, #1090 feels like the kind of post scum would make to simulate analysis
As I said, I was getting my notes out first and commenting on relevant stuff. Also, I rarely do much voting or lists in the early game. I'm ***** at behavioral analysis and don't enjoy it. I need flips and world building and night actions to be actually productive.
1053
SirChris
Last
RE
Cantrip
Rod
LnG
Need to Sort/Null
Vaimes
Rhand
Highroller
Grape
KA
GJ
D_V
tom
KJ
Tubba
Shin
Most of this should be obvious based on other comments. If it's not, it's most likely just gut and highly volatile. Not necessarily in order within tiers.
@hunger
That is fair, but I feel like there is a disconnect in your list above, like having KJ and Tubba below sort/null, and much of your need to sort/null list in general
Rather I should say im totally into that but just dont feel great about his chances of flipping mafia
Kinda wanna vote chris rn tbh but there's no chance im actually lynching him d1 so don't think theres much point.
Think ill just roll with my 1053/lngrr/vaimes towncore, side of shin/rod/hr/kami who are *probably* town
I do still think last is most likely within faction, but its not by a huge amount really and folks are right that's probably not the most reliable method rn but I don't really have stronger scumreads so im fine with it as a vote for now, but lets say I'll be paying attention to any juicy looking cases/scumreads
Chris = Gut/history of playing with him, and his case he put forward on shin.
Tubba = Mostly gut due to how in the background he is and I don't remember his posts really doing anything. Also, red=scum, orange=scum lean, yellow=just south of null, so it's not quite fair to say I'm calling him scum.
That doesn't mean you are scum though, which is why I am not voting you. I realize that my ability to read you isn't that great.
The problem I have with it is that in order to think that I am mafia/3rd party, you have to also think I am stupid and would willingly just offer that up. As someone who has claimed first post yourself, I am surprised you think that me giving up that info freely makes me more likely to be scum. Also, in order to fit this around me being scum, you also have the assume I am a bad player, which frankly I won't take kindly to anyways.
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Saying you are significantly greater than rand to be town isn't the same as town clearing but your point is fair. It wasn't entirely about you claiming it (though that factored in {Unlike LnG I actually believe you would never have just outed it without thought}) it was also about the way you handled DV's fake claim. I felt scum you would have been x% more likely to have know it was fake and >x% more likely to have not just taken it in stride and not spin it into a push immediately.
And I was intentionally obfuscating my loner status. And attempting to react as if I assumed everyone had faction mates. And I was hiding it because I like my cards close to the chest.
Because my mistake hinted at my not having a faction chat as I'd have known there was no day chat for those.
So u don't agree with Chris's reason on why Grr is probably town? Also why are you so much more aggressive then in DiTF, I read that game for a while even after dying, and I didn't see this same level of caring
Still quite sure shin is just a mislynch, I'm kinda getting the same feelings of Grape, but like idk who to push...
Here's what I am thinking:
If there is a third party it is within a solo faction/no faction
Probably scum in there if there is no third party
I don't trust Tom as far as I can throw him because he is clearly angling pretty hard for certain lynches and that shouldn't go unnoticed. He can claim that "oh yeah I have a good faith belief this person is scum" but he has already admitted to playing to another wincon, which is fine I have those too but I am hoping I can accomplish mine while going about the normal course of the game.
Also I am kind of sure if we all just full claimed and ignored our faction we win easily since the amount of meta info we could get based off of wincons is likely epic but I am GUESSING that goes against the fun of the game.
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I'd have to take full inventory after the flip but I bet only one buddy has actively defended shin if he is indeed mafia, while others just were like "heh heh let's vote someone else" which will also be looked into.
Or he is town and this is awkward but hey trust the process!
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I prob should go build on at that some more instead of just being all talk XD. Well, you prob can't argue he's town except for the fact that he's a vigilante, its highly possible for rod to be a mafia day shot vig or whatever you would call it. I ain't sure how likely that is though, so it's like do I still scum read him or not? No narrative, I just haven't felt the need to vote is all. You could also use this argument on the 3 other people I scum read or at least had red in my read list.
I don't see how this of any help though I feellike this is more of a bait than an actual plan. Which I don't like how at the end you scum read someone off of some plan that probabaly won't work.
Interesting I actually missed the last part, it really make the iron throne strong in the hands of mafia. I aint to worried aslong as vaimes or someone else i town read gets voted.
When have you been right about me? Unless your refering to grape fruit which is pretty accurate based on how I see him play every single game. I wouldn't mind a grapefruit lynch at some point but at the same time hes kinda just playing the nice town.
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Didn't DV claim neutral or did he retract the claim? Also somewhere else I read there was another tpr claim unless I am missing something?
Ehh I think you give yourself too much credit my friend, you do realize its impossible to break my relaxed nature. I'll literally die before i freak out about anything. The rest of this statement I have to agree with though :D.
Oh you have yet to see me snap trust me
Oh ripp, the alignment the role or both?
Shrug why do people fake claim as town -.-
Call it good faith or w/e, i still would rather him not be put 6' under today
My red reads are:
Rodemy
Cantrip
1053 mostly because if his most recent plan suggestion
Other people I be ok lynching are
GF
Hunger
As for you the read has diminished over time, however i wish you would get your head out of your ass about me being scum.
Tell you what Wisp, give me a name I can get behind? You are voting for a not-mafia read of mine right now and you've played enough with me to know those reads are usually pretty good so if you are claiming "super bro knowledge" you are not the first brothers I have played with. Whatcha got for me?
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I do not believe my head is in my ass in any way.
You believe scum Rodemy tried to murder you in broad daylight? Crier? What's the theory?
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Is your brother the type of player who gets voted by someone, tunneled essentially, and this makes him suspect them less? Because that's what he claimed happened here.
You really sure I don't have something? Cause admittedly I think you are too pure for this world right now with this defense but it doesn't add up to me.
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Hm ok. You’re caught solo then. Jippie.
If nothing else pops up, I’ll try to do more reading soon.
I have no other leads to go with :/
@Chris: who should I be voting and why?
unvote
I think I never unvoted my RVS vote.
1. Why did you ask me?
2. Shinichi. I believe he straight up contradicted himself to the point that no town could genuinely contradict that way (read my iso if you want the exact details) and since then he just keeps doing little things that I cannot reconcile with a genuine town mindset.
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I overlook so much *****, however in my defense I don't expect people to fake claim this early espically a person i town read.
I think your look at mafia as a persona instead of looking at it for every individual person. I don't think there are things that will get scum caught all the time, it's entirely based on a person. I think I am a perfect example, in normal situations if someone were to contradict themselves as much as I do they would be lynched for being scum. I tend to get away with it because I'm an idiot at times XD. Also, Mafia to hop on a train still need to provide a reason, if their reason is poor it won't work.
Wisp will always be active that can't be read into, however that isn't a dilemma if you scum read someone that's where you should, for the most part, be lynching. Unless they can prove otherwise they're a town.
Town crier is the role that can be used to have the mod send announcements in the thread no? If so its possible, what would have been is goal though? To try to get me off his suspicion by making me believe he is a vigilante?
No, I refused to get dumb told as a town, every time that happens the person who does it is scum >3>
Surprised you think i can be scum with DV after all our interactions. I don't follow your read on DV because everything hes done has just seem so natural except the fake claim not sure why he would do that. I would never vote DV on this day, but i can budge on future days.
I have a logical reason to believe that though, and games to back it up. Specifically 1 game with vaimes where he gave me a dumb town tell read and then flipped scum. Also had a few games were like this one I read the person pushing me as a town because I believe they could be a town.
@chris
What exactly are you asking me?
-Greyjoy Words
Shinichi (5): Sir Chris, D_V, Highroller, Rodemy, KamikazeArchon
Grapefruit21 (3): LnGrrrR, Vaimes, 1053nm
Lastwhisper (3): RE1031, tomsloger, Grapefruit21
LnGrrrR (1): Lastwhisper
Highroller (1): Hunger
Not Voting (6): Shinichi, Tubba Fett, Gentleman Johnny, Cantripmancer, Killjoy, Rhand
V/LA
Sir Chris through May 9th
Killjoy through the week
Lastwhisper through the week (semi V/LA)
With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is May 14th at 1700 MST.
A reminder about Iron Throne support: All support must be done via PM (either MTGS or discord), and can be changed as many times as you wish up until twilight is announced.
2. I will read your ISO.
@Shinichi: are you calling me scum?
Is your brother the type of person as town to get less suspicious of someone as they push him hard?
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You could just have some sort of agenda for all we know, but for the most part it shouldnt make you scum just on that information alone. I've only played one other game with you so i cant judge anything about your play here. So ill take everything with a grain of salt, mostly cause you don't like gf which is common grounds we have.
I don't believe hes crier, I just believe hes a mafia that has a day vig. The crier was Re theory not mine. I've never played with rodemy so I can't get in his head about whys and why not's.
Am I?
Tbf I didn't care much who was voting me lol
Followup: Why would scum!Rod try to daykill town!you instead of just push for your lynch?
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Grr asking the important questions here.
Here’s why I did it: shinchi was being scumread by a lot of people. He was close to lynch. So instead of ending the day with ONE scum dead... why not go for TWO scum dead.
You see ONE < TWO
Looks like the "slip" could not be there given Highroller's explanation, and since most people seem to have ignored it altogether, I'm willing to back off on it. However, I do still think the paragraph on the Iron Throne stuff in that post from Highroller is pretty weak. It reads like a template of what scum would say on their thoughts on the Throne without wanting to commit to anything, but feeling like they need to say something about it. It feels akin to something like, "we should try our best to use our power roles to benefit the town guys!" It's just sort of weird. On top of that his early game was really focused on trying to figure out how this game can work and the mechanics of it, so not knowing about daychat or the inability to self-vote feels like a disconnect in his approach on the game. I need to ISO him. I was leaning town on him before the "slip" and I don't remember anything else he has done as seeming scummy to me, so I might just be reading too much into this. I'll move him to neutral for now and want to ISO him. I also feel like I've sorta glossed over him v LnG and want to get better context on that.
Re:Rod "vig" attempt, I agree with -- I think it was RE -- saying basically it's nothing confirmed yet. It may be a vig shot, it may be something else, the conditions under which it works could be anything, so it is somewhat NAI until we see it resolve. The flavor does seem to imply something detrimental to living, so it's probably slightly more of a town lean. If he is town and it is a vig, it's probably self-resolving since scum will want to deal with a potential vig. I don't think having a dayvig makes him auto-town however.
Re:1053's spread vote plan - I am opposed, but not super strongly. I see the argument for it's benefits, but I think it's too risky due to how much ****ery could happen with it and potentially giving scum a free Day is not something I am keen on. I will probably touch on this again, but I think it adds to my town read on 1053 regardless.
I think Chris is a better vote than Vaimes for the Throne if it's between them. I'll always respect Chris's ability enough that I fear locking in a read on him as he could be playing a good scum game, but my gut so far is that he is town. I don't really have as much experience with Vaimes and nothing I remember has me one way or another on his alignment. Also, the fact that Vaimes has claimed it would help his alt wincon makes me less incentivized to want to help him do that at this point. I think? I still haven't totally thought through how I feel about and want to approach the alt wincons.
Lots of words, but like I want stances not all this hedging, #1090 feels like the kind of post scum would make to simulate analysis
I'm lukewarm on Grape forgetting. It was kind of a random thought in the middle of another post so I could see him actually forgetting. It COULD be that it was disingenous and I think his thanking me for pointing it out is a bit weird. I liked Grape for town initially, but I also want to reread him because I know he actually has some content and multiple people are scumreading him.
I like Cantrip's 610 both in terms of his towniness and the reasoning to distrust Shin.
@Shin - In a typical game of mafia, do you think the town or the scum team have a better chance of winning? i.e. which traditional faction win-con is easier to acheive?
I'm liking Last for a town lean. Some pretty thought out posts in here despite me skimming a lot of them, and the fact he staked his scum read on LnG on his entrance, and then did the same for a town Rodemy read, but backed out of the town Rod read later is actual progression and makes me less worried about how adamant he was on the LnG scum read. He's shown he's willing to reason and change his reads. It probably would have been easier as scum to just stick to that and the progression feels genuine.
I like Chris's shin case. Particularly points 3 and 4 in the follow up in 709 after the initial case.
1053 can be town. See 753. As well as his thought process on his proposed split votes plan. I just don't see that formulating and being posted with a scum mindset, especially when scum have Daychat.
Not sure what to make of tom continually musing on the flavor/alt-wincons of his factions and how likely they are to contain scum. OP clearly states meta-gaming that will lead to a bad time and that it is random. Like he's trying to world-build on false assumptions. Like, sure, it makes sense to make the logical jump that if you have 4 people in your faction one of them is likely scum, but I feel like there is too much focus on it given that the OP states it will be random and it's equally likely to have or not have a scum in any given faction. Unless I'm misunderstanding the OP? At the same time it's a weird scum move to make as well, painting a target on his back if he is the scum in the faction. So likely he is town or he is scum with a buddy in that faction. I don't think tom is ever the sole scum in that faction.
Probably going to have to go read the shin stuff closer though since he is shaping up to be my top scum read...
Unvote
Rather I should say im totally into that but just dont feel great about his chances of flipping mafia
Kinda wanna vote chris rn tbh but there's no chance im actually lynching him d1 so don't think theres much point.
Think ill just roll with my 1053/lngrr/vaimes towncore, side of shin/rod/hr/kami who are *probably* town
I do still think last is most likely within faction, but its not by a huge amount really and folks are right that's probably not the most reliable method rn but I don't really have stronger scumreads so im fine with it as a vote for now, but lets say I'll be paying attention to any juicy looking cases/scumreads
1053
SirChris
Last
RE
Cantrip
Rod
LnG
Need to Sort/Null
Vaimes
Rhand
Highroller
Grape
KA
GJ
D_V
tom
KJ
Tubba
Shin
Most of this should be obvious based on other comments. If it's not, it's most likely just gut and highly volatile. Not necessarily in order within tiers.
Why is tubba scum?
That is fair, but I feel like there is a disconnect in your list above, like having KJ and Tubba below sort/null, and much of your need to sort/null list in general
Tubba = Mostly gut due to how in the background he is and I don't remember his posts really doing anything. Also, red=scum, orange=scum lean, yellow=just south of null, so it's not quite fair to say I'm calling him scum.