So working on catching up and haven't read the last few pages, but I did come across this and either after 6 times rereading the OP I am just blind at the mention of a 5 man scum team or Highroller slipped. Also somewhat strange that he says if scum have daychat when it's in the OP and despite my limited amount of focus on this game pretty sure I remember it being brought up in thread. Sorta smells like trying to be extra coy and the whole, "guys, lets avoid mafia on the throne OK!" just feels forced.
Regarding the Iron Throne: If the mafia have daychat, that means one of them is likely to start out with 4 votes just right off the bat. Even without daychat, we are still very likely to be at a disadvantage from the get-go. A mafia on the throne would be bad news for any town. We should work to avoid that.
Personally, I think the vote would best go to either Vaimes or myself. Vaimes because I agree that we're dealing with TownVaimes, and myself because I think pretty much everyone who's played with me in a previous game has said, "Yeah, Highroller's in keeping with his past behavior."
I clearly believe in a 4-man mafia team. 5 man would only be balanced if we had at least 20 players total and weren't set up to be uncooperative with one another.
What do I know then lol, also is this true on the logic? Not sure if your making it up or now.
@Shinichi
holy ****, you are not reading this game... what outted neutrals are you talking about lmao
@RE
the noob town vibes were definitely applicable in the past, and not so much now
I agree that a lot of his stuff is just fancy talk, and not much of anything else, and I don't even agree with his whole "throne" plan
What is your stance on Shin now? Can you get your vote off me you potato... I am not scum here
Also, I wasn't going to say anything, but since people are actively lobbying for the iron throne and there's a good chance some of those people are mafia, there's a good chance there could be a consensus election with town on board which could muddle the interpretation of the role of who wins iron throne. I think we should spread out votes out so that each person only gets 1 vote for iron throne. If we do it this way, it will be really interesting to see what shadow does to solve the problem of having a million-way tie. Or, if scum decides to take power, then we know for that the throne person is scum and it's and easy next lynch. This is the weakest the iron throne position will be, given the relative power of an extra vote against a huge number of people, so now would be the time to make this move. Either we all tie (and probably no one gets power) or scum wins throne for a day and is immediately lynched.
1 should vote for 2, 2 for 3, ..., 19 for 1. Can write it all out with names if that is helpful/clearer.
Seeing as how this helps town in no way shape or form i would rather now. Its better to have to people contest for the thrown just like you would for EOD trains a main train and a counter train.
I'm not sure yet how alternate wincons effect balance.
My gut says there's probably enough that are ~anti town, at least in unintended consequences, that 4 scum is more likely than 5.
19er with 5 scum is reasonable without that.
Powerful 4?
3 scum, plus a 2-3 person "evil" faction?
No mafia just a big factional free for all?
I see no reason to go into a whole mechanical debate about it lol, though imagine if it was a free for all.
I'm not sure yet how alternate wincons effect balance.
5 mafia would be appropriate for 20 players in a game in which the only factions are "town" and "mafia." So, 5 mafia is ok for 20 towns who are united in a common goal of killing mafia.
Were there 5 mafia in this game, there would be 5 mafia in a game with 19 players - already a problem - and the game is set up so that the 14 townspeople are going to be subdivided into factions that have mechanical incentives not to work with each other.
So yeah, we're probably dealing with 4 mafia. (Unless we're dealing with something REALLY weird, like it's the Night King and he's the mafia and he can recruit people or some bonkers thing like that.)
The possibility did occur to me, but I don't think shadowlancerx is THAT much of a bastard mod.
How does that fit into account neutrals thought because some have been claimed no? Either way its silly to try to figure this out, I dont think hunger made any type of slip nor do I see anything where you indicated 5 scum in the first place.
If they frame, we kill, and throne flips town, then we have more information that way too. If we agree that no matter what, throne dies then that should disincentivize town from voting with their faction. This actually gives us at least a framework for interpreting the result. Grapefruit, as someone who has been regularly scumread and doesn't seem to be a town (I mean team) player, I think you just jumped from neutral to scumlean for me. If someone wants to play for their faction rather than town as a whole, then either way voting them out is either really good (scum dead) or neutral (divisive town out).
Vote Grapefruit
I don't see the logic and I have to agree with grape here. Also even if I didn't agree with grape its not vote worthy -.-. Part of me doesnt want to think your actually serious about this vote.
@RE
the noob town vibes were definitely applicable in the past, and not so much now
I agree that a lot of his stuff is just fancy talk, and not much of anything else, and I don't even agree with his whole "throne" plan
What is your stance on Shin now? Can you get your vote off me you potato... I am not scum here
I'll try to be open as possible with my thoughts here.
I'm a weird player (person). One of my goals in mafia is to learn how to solve the game without ever needing to closely analyze or even read every post. That's because in every single game, there are certain behaviors mafia cannot avoid - in order for them to win, town must be lynched.
Generally speaking, there are two ways for town to be lynched. Either by fellow town, or through mafia powerwolfing. Powerwolfing is easier (less of a gamble) to recognize, as that player or players will be exposing themselves. If town is lynching town, however, mafia can either hop on or stay back.
Which brings me to a more relevant issue that's been weighing on my mind - I find you and Grape incredibly wolfy, but despite being under a large amount of suspicion, you are still among the most active players in the game.
So I'm in a dilemma. Do I lynch people I think are wolves (you and Grape), or do I make an attempt at hindsight and run with the possibility that scum are just laying back while town is fighting town? It is only day 1 and information is scarce. (Shinichi technically falls under this category, but I actually believe he's town).
So I'm going to think about it.
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Also my coordination point was that your reply less than a minute after he posted it felt coordinated in a chat, at the time I incorrectly thought faction chats had day chat. I did not think it made the 2 of you scum together.
Oh I understand.
When you have been daychating as mafia this whole game it must be hard to remember the rest of us are not plotting in the shadows.
In the best real stinky joe terry voice you've ever heard
Yo this man is scum, saying I'm scum for the chat thing while saying my town read of Shin makes him feel better about him being scum because town!me is always wrong.
I'm only half joking.
Also should I be holding my breath for something to happen to Shin?
@RE I guess my understanding was that your push on me largely stemmed from my handling of LnG. So if that were the case the fact that other people having worse votes/handlings didn't cause you to reevaluate them while forming the read on me at all was an odd look. If your case wasn't primarily based on that then I'd like to hear what it was from.
You're forgetting Playstation in which I nailed the entire scum team and you argued with me about that.
I remember you adamantly telling me GJ was town now that you mention it. But yeah I was wrong, spectacularly so, on Kpaca that game.
Anyway re-litigating old games isn't going to serve either of us well.
@Chris It probably will be you. Doesn't mean you'll be right.
The great thing about life is we will get to find out together, Grapefruit.
Scum on Shin iyo?
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@RE
not only am I still active, but I also have a 10-page essay due on Friday by 11:59 pm, an 8-page essay due on Thurs, as well as a portfolio write up, also due on Thursday
From a game state perspective there almost has to be a minimum of one scum in the actives, and it's what still confusing me because I really think DV, Highroller, and Shin are town, which leaves me with Grapefruit and you, though I don't really believe you are scum here
there is no way there isn't at least one scum in, Grape/You/Me/Chris/DV/Highroller/Shin, I'd be surprised if there wasn't tbh
I'd honestly rather focus on getting the lurkers to talk because I am more inclined to believe that the majority of wolves are inside them
which includes the likes of 1035 or w/e his name is, and tom (which isn't necessarily lurking, but he's still hasn't posted any like thoughts that came off as super towny") and obviously the rest
I've really liked Kami's post, not lock town, but wouldn't lynch today
don't really see why Vaimes is an obvious town here
Rodemy gets some points for his mod-confirmed claim day action I guess
still have cobalt and hunger at nulls though which is annoying, quite sure I can read GJ though
Oh and while I am up for a little bit longer, I would like to thank Rod for being a true friend.
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@Chris KJ and KA would be my best bets of the people still on him. LW overall.
@DV Ahhh... My apologies I got distracted seeing the red. But seriously was the "grape being opposite my reads makes me feel better about them" entirely a joke?
As for my own read and vote on Grape - two things pinged me. His awkward entrance (first post), and his read on Vaimes which struck me as far too confident. The confidence pinging me also because it shadows your [Wisp's] read on Rodemy. As if testing boundaries, since confidence tends to be read as town.
This is where I explain my reasoning for voting you, which I think you ended up replying to (only to address me calling your entrance awkward though).
At this very moment, your antagonism worries me most of all. Blah blah blah don't use meta, but... Of the games I have played with you, town and scum, I've fought with you significantly more when you were scum and I was town, which is usually a result of you taking advantage of my posts and me not liking that. I'll say you are far more active in this game and haven't shied away from the thread as you have in the past when under suspicion. So this is something I'll need to think about (same with Wisp).
The mighty dragon Rodemy roars at Shinichi, flames in his throat. Shinichi cowers, and the dragon closes his mouth and flies away, leaving his would be prey to contemplate life just a while longer.
Nothing happens
This is where Rodemy's shot is made, and misses.
Going to voice a tinfoil now. This could easily be a crier ability of sorts, where you send the mod a message to be posted anonymously. Until someone dies from this claimed ability, I will not trust it.
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I refuse to believe Rodemy called himself "The mighty dragon Rodemy" RE I am sorry.
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@RE Is there any reason I shouldn't be confident on Vaimes? He's a really easy read. And I am being prickly, but it's not overly AI. As I mentioned earlier my game has evolved a bit. Back when I was worse and people could read me better the most best skill I had was bleeding town, now no one trusts me even if I try my hardest to appear town so I just post without a filter.
@RE
not only am I still active, but I also have a 10-page essay due on Friday by 11:59 pm, an 8-page essay due on Thurs, as well as a portfolio write up, also due on Thursday
From a game state perspective there almost has to be a minimum of one scum in the actives, and it's what still confusing me because I really think DV, Highroller, and Shin are town, which leaves me with Grapefruit and you, though I don't really believe you are scum here
there is no way there isn't at least one scum in, Grape/You/Me/Chris/DV/Highroller/Shin, I'd be surprised if there wasn't tbh
I'd honestly rather focus on getting the lurkers to talk because I am more inclined to believe that the majority of wolves are inside them
which includes the likes of 1035 or w/e his name is, and tom (which isn't necessarily lurking, but he's still hasn't posted any like thoughts that came off as super towny") and obviously the rest
I've really liked Kami's post, not lock town, but wouldn't lynch today
don't really see why Vaimes is an obvious town here
Rodemy gets some points for his mod-confirmed claim day action I guess
still have cobalt and hunger at nulls though which is annoying, quite sure I can read GJ though
GL. I got a 6 page paper due Thursday, several mini assignments due by this Friday, and a bunch of art to get done. The worse of it's over for me, though.
I'll review the people who have posted content, but barely enough and are coasting by. KJ, Cantrip. Tubba. Also gotta read tom. I remember having some good feelings on him giving mechanical information, but I'm not sure how much credit that can be given since theoretically if he's in a 4-person faction (you, KJ, Shinichi, himself), one of you is bound to be town and so there's nothing to be gained from hiding that information since town already has it.
I remember reading Kami's posts. I guess I'll read them again because I don't remember what they said.
Vaimes is obvious town for the reasons you read Rodemy as town. Like, far more so even.
Explained Rodemy a little above.
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ok Vaimes is town, sorry :/
forgot about Cantrip and KJ
tubba's posts give me the vibe that he wants us to know he exists and is actively trying to look town, but maybe that's premature, but definitely a fair assumption.
@RE Is there any reason I shouldn't be confident on Vaimes? He's a really easy read. And I am being prickly, but it's not overly AI. As I mentioned earlier my game has evolved a bit. Back when I was worse and people could read me better the most best skill I had was bleeding town, now no one trusts me even if I try my hardest to appear town so I just post without a filter.
Right now? Not really. I'm pretty okay with your Shinichi read despite it being given with the same level of confidence, so it wasn't just your read on Vaimes being a confident one, but the timing of it.
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Also, just to get this straight, since I didn't really understand what happened.
KJ/tom/Wisp/Shinichi faction is a thing. tom believes there is scum in this faction because of statistical probability, or is there another reason for it?
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KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@RE
not only am I still active, but I also have a 10-page essay due on Friday by 11:59 pm, an 8-page essay due on Thurs, as well as a portfolio write up, also due on Thursday
From a game state perspective there almost has to be a minimum of one scum in the actives, and it's what still confusing me because I really think DV, Highroller, and Shin are town, which leaves me with Grapefruit and you, though I don't really believe you are scum here
there is no way there isn't at least one scum in, Grape/You/Me/Chris/DV/Highroller/Shin, I'd be surprised if there wasn't tbh
I'd honestly rather focus on getting the lurkers to talk because I am more inclined to believe that the majority of wolves are inside them
which includes the likes of 1035 or w/e his name is, and tom (which isn't necessarily lurking, but he's still hasn't posted any like thoughts that came off as super towny") and obviously the rest
I've really liked Kami's post, not lock town, but wouldn't lynch today
don't really see why Vaimes is an obvious town here
Rodemy gets some points for his mod-confirmed claim day action I guess
still have cobalt and hunger at nulls though which is annoying, quite sure I can read GJ though
GL. I got a 6 page paper due Thursday, several mini assignments due by this Friday, and a bunch of art to get done. The worse of it's over for me, though.
I'll review the people who have posted content, but barely enough and are coasting by. KJ, Cantrip. Tubba. Also gotta read tom. I remember having some good feelings on him giving mechanical information, but I'm not sure how much credit that can be given since theoretically if he's in a 4-person faction (you, KJ, Shinichi, himself), one of you is bound to be town and so there's nothing to be gained from hiding that information since town already has it.
I remember reading Kami's posts. I guess I'll read them again because I don't remember what they said.
Vaimes is obvious town for the reasons you read Rodemy as town. Like, far more so even.
Explained Rodemy a little above.
"Barely coasting?" I'm V/LA. Why are you saying these things?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Right now? Not really. I'm pretty okay with your Shinichi read despite it being given with the same level of confidence, so it wasn't just your read on Vaimes being a confident one, but the timing of it.
So you think it was a too early TMI sort of thing? Given how easy Vaimes is to read I'm going to say you're either hard confirmation biasing a gut read or you're scum desperately trying to justify a bad read.
The daychat thing with Grape is interesting.
@Grape: are you alone in your faction?
In a way you're all in my faction, but yeah I have no one I share a alt win con or chat with. For those at home this is a huge part of why I'm so suspicious of LnG.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'd kill for a 10 page paper. I just finished a 36 page paper on public disclosure laws. Wisp aren't you Comp Sci? What program makes Comp Sci write papers of any length? (Even though I know a friend that had to take a Comp Sci final programming by hand).
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'd kill for a 10 page paper. I just finished a 36 page paper on public disclosure laws. Wisp aren't you Comp Sci? What program makes Comp Sci write papers of any length? (Even though I know a friend that had to take a Comp Sci final programming by hand).
computer logic, which has a portfolio and final essay, and my senior project class which had a semester long project where I worked with a company, and now this 10 page paper
Right now? Not really. I'm pretty okay with your Shinichi read despite it being given with the same level of confidence, so it wasn't just your read on Vaimes being a confident one, but the timing of it.
So you think it was a too early TMI sort of thing? Given how easy Vaimes is to read I'm going to say you're either hard confirmation biasing a gut read or you're scum desperately trying to justify a bad read.
Not really TMI. More like simple fabrication.
Neither, but this is pointless banter.
It's been in every vote count since I announced it. Hope do you miss that?
Lots of reasons. I've been on mobile for the past couple days. I tend to not read that area of the VC. I may have even noticed it, but it slipped my mind.
Sorry?
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KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@RE so what maintained your read before the LnG business then? Other people reached the same conclusion on Vaimes at basically the same time, so it obviously wasn't a fabrication, so using that as the basis for your read is a bad idea.
@Wisp the context should make it clear, but the latter declarative statement.
Since no one has done it yet, this is town!Vaimes. I don't care who is in his chats, he never comes out this energized for a second wolf rand in a row.
So, I could be blind and have missed it. It happens.
But you're literally saying here that no one has given Vaimes a townread yet...
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As for what maintained the read, to be fully honest, there were times my gut pinged me the other direction. But I don't like revealing all my cards. If anything, that's what traps me into confirmation bias. Once I've said it, it's hard for me to let it go. Or once I've said it, it gives room for scum to adapt. I don't think my read of you was selling or anything. But not everything needs to be selling to be right.
Then you began to attack me for things that were irrelevant, from my PoV. How I backed off D_V. Why I believed my push of LnGrrrR (if it could be called one) was different from yours.
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About DV: He starts out the game pretty carefree. With the bold claim (which may be null because DV, IDK), his making statements like THIS IS THE PLAN NOW and his "Lets theorycraft on page three because Why Not?" overall seems >rand to be town. His handling of RE and you, Grape, around page 7 of his ISO doesn't feel like an attack. He feels like he's actually trying to figure you guys out.
I dislike his being on LnGrrrR for his claim. The whole faction/factionless conversation could be agenda. He kind of stops solving to engage in the faction/factionless flavor/mechanical argument with LnGrrrR.
I actually kind of dislike 440. It kinda shades LnGrrrR, slightly shades HR I think as well, then votes Grape because theres a push.
I'm actually mildly confused by 448. The post it's referencing is pretty standard. Why the high townread? I'm guessing he answers to that at some point. Ah there it is. It's because Chris is only posting town clears. Saying this tells DV KA is scumhunting. Might be too easy of a townread?
His vote on Wisp, like his vote on you seems bandwagony. He then jumps off for some reason he keeps to himself. Could be null. Could be not. Depends on the reason.
Votes tom for... trying to lynch members of his faction?
Actually... in 718 he votes shin because tom makes a reference to a drawback being too low... and DV just responds with "toms right, vote Shin". Tom: Did you out in the thread what that drawback you were referring to was? Is there any reason for DV to make this post?
He justifies it in 727 but it really feels like he's saying something different.
The conversation with shin is confusing, he seems to be mixing the two twins up.
He might be right about Rod's ability being real. IDK if it's town. We don't know what people have yet so scum could have a daykill. I wanna say I saw one once.
Summary: A fair bit is null, but I don't actually like his pushes. They actually all (save tom) seem... a bit bandwagony.
I'm scumleaning him now.
I can say if he's scum he's not with LnGrrrR. Maybe not with Wisp.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@DV, it was more testing HR. His jp on me is what made me vote him. And we fought a bunch in Secret Agent too. I think he is one of those I will just scumread. For the record, he tends to do the same of me if secret Agent is indicative.
Wow. It all makes sense now. At last I see the light. [/sarcasm]
Mainly, I thought GF hopped on me with a vote even though he isn't sure I am scum and has been saying he thinks it is more likely I am 3rd party.
So did four other people. You claimed factionless in a game in which the OP had then stated that everyone had a faction. It's completely logical that people would think you were mafia or a third party.
I asked why you were wondering what the case on GF was.
For someone with asked neutral read on him, not sure why you seem to be concerned about his wagon, or why you wouldn't take a stand on it one way or another if you're concerned.
Be less of a tryhard, LnGrrrR.
I was concerned about Grape's bandwagon because, at the time of my posting the question, it was the majority bandwagon.
Read: I have no good reason for justify suspicion against Highroller, but I'm still going to be antagonistic towards him despite openly acknowledging the fact that it's for no good reason.
... antagonistic is a strong word, but essentially yes.
So, in other words, you're admitting that none of your attacks against me have logic or reason to back them? Cool.
1) It tests cooperation. You have already shown that you don't believe in it and heavily hinted at what you do at baseline in a prisoner's dilemma situation. Info gained whether or not people agree to do the plan.
2) Scum have to make the difficult decision about whether they should intentionally give up power or take the risk. Killing the throne gives us info about the scum either way. Seeing who they intentionally targeted also gives a lot of information. Also, giving probably a scum team of 4 one extra vote now when there are 15 town is not that big of a deal. Again, not going to discuss possibilities or how I would interpret every single outcome in detail before we see who gets the throne--I'll do that regardless and, as you've already pointed out, telling scum exactly how you're going to react is just giving them unnecessary information. Unless of course, you're scum and are digging for extra information?
No, dude, this plan will not work.
I think maybe the point of confusion is you think that the vote totals will be revealed at the end of the day. But the OP doesn't say that. It just says the winner will be revealed. In which case, the objection is correct: the mafia could just vote to frame someone else, and we would have no idea. There's no risk to them, and no reward for us.
It’s not a trick. And I think you’re town for your Iron bank thing.
Which is why I thought you’re probably alone: otherwise someone from your faction might have blown that immediately, making that gambit useless.
The reason I’m asking is that if we have me, you, Lngr and Grape all being alone, the chance of having scum in a solo faction is huge.
I skimmed Grape’s ISO and his reactions to me and Lngr being solo are kind of weird for him being alone too.
That explains Lngr, but not your first reaction to me?
You basically town-cleared me for it. Why?
And your musing about possible solo factions sounded very much like you didn’t expect solo factions. Were you planning on hiding that? And why?
peekabo I see you, what did this do? I read the thread and saw nothing happen.
What do I know then lol, also is this true on the logic? Not sure if your making it up or now.
holy ****, you are not reading this game... what outted neutrals are you talking about lmao
@RE
the noob town vibes were definitely applicable in the past, and not so much now
I agree that a lot of his stuff is just fancy talk, and not much of anything else, and I don't even agree with his whole "throne" plan
What is your stance on Shin now? Can you get your vote off me you potato... I am not scum here
DVs was fake
Seeing as how this helps town in no way shape or form i would rather now. Its better to have to people contest for the thrown just like you would for EOD trains a main train and a counter train.
I see no reason to go into a whole mechanical debate about it lol, though imagine if it was a free for all.
How does that fit into account neutrals thought because some have been claimed no? Either way its silly to try to figure this out, I dont think hunger made any type of slip nor do I see anything where you indicated 5 scum in the first place.
I remember you adamantly telling me GJ was town now that you mention it. But yeah I was wrong, spectacularly so, on Kpaca that game.
Anyway re-litigating old games isn't going to serve either of us well.
@Chris It probably will be you. Doesn't mean you'll be right.
I don't see the logic and I have to agree with grape here. Also even if I didn't agree with grape its not vote worthy -.-. Part of me doesnt want to think your actually serious about this vote.
I'm just going to quote this and say I'm ready to move onto day 2.
Expect me to show back up in three days quote this again, and then we'll be near deadline.
I'm a weird player (person). One of my goals in mafia is to learn how to solve the game without ever needing to closely analyze or even read every post. That's because in every single game, there are certain behaviors mafia cannot avoid - in order for them to win, town must be lynched.
Generally speaking, there are two ways for town to be lynched. Either by fellow town, or through mafia powerwolfing. Powerwolfing is easier (less of a gamble) to recognize, as that player or players will be exposing themselves. If town is lynching town, however, mafia can either hop on or stay back.
Which brings me to a more relevant issue that's been weighing on my mind - I find you and Grape incredibly wolfy, but despite being under a large amount of suspicion, you are still among the most active players in the game.
So I'm in a dilemma. Do I lynch people I think are wolves (you and Grape), or do I make an attempt at hindsight and run with the possibility that scum are just laying back while town is fighting town? It is only day 1 and information is scarce. (Shinichi technically falls under this category, but I actually believe he's town).
So I'm going to think about it.
In the best real stinky joe terry voice you've ever heard
Yo this man is scum, saying I'm scum for the chat thing while saying my town read of Shin makes him feel better about him being scum because town!me is always wrong.
I'm only half joking.
Also should I be holding my breath for something to happen to Shin?
@RE I guess my understanding was that your push on me largely stemmed from my handling of LnG. So if that were the case the fact that other people having worse votes/handlings didn't cause you to reevaluate them while forming the read on me at all was an odd look. If your case wasn't primarily based on that then I'd like to hear what it was from.
The great thing about life is we will get to find out together, Grapefruit.
Scum on Shin iyo?
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
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2015 - Best Town Player
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Can add Grape to this list wisp.
not only am I still active, but I also have a 10-page essay due on Friday by 11:59 pm, an 8-page essay due on Thurs, as well as a portfolio write up, also due on Thursday
From a game state perspective there almost has to be a minimum of one scum in the actives, and it's what still confusing me because I really think DV, Highroller, and Shin are town, which leaves me with Grapefruit and you, though I don't really believe you are scum here
there is no way there isn't at least one scum in, Grape/You/Me/Chris/DV/Highroller/Shin, I'd be surprised if there wasn't tbh
I'd honestly rather focus on getting the lurkers to talk because I am more inclined to believe that the majority of wolves are inside them
which includes the likes of 1035 or w/e his name is, and tom (which isn't necessarily lurking, but he's still hasn't posted any like thoughts that came off as super towny") and obviously the rest
I've really liked Kami's post, not lock town, but wouldn't lynch today
don't really see why Vaimes is an obvious town here
Rodemy gets some points for his mod-confirmed claim day action I guess
still have cobalt and hunger at nulls though which is annoying, quite sure I can read GJ though
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
@DV Ahhh... My apologies I got distracted seeing the red. But seriously was the "grape being opposite my reads makes me feel better about them" entirely a joke?
This is where I explain my reasoning for voting you, which I think you ended up replying to (only to address me calling your entrance awkward though).
At this very moment, your antagonism worries me most of all. Blah blah blah don't use meta, but... Of the games I have played with you, town and scum, I've fought with you significantly more when you were scum and I was town, which is usually a result of you taking advantage of my posts and me not liking that. I'll say you are far more active in this game and haven't shied away from the thread as you have in the past when under suspicion. So this is something I'll need to think about (same with Wisp).
This is where Rodemy's shot is made, and misses.
Going to voice a tinfoil now. This could easily be a crier ability of sorts, where you send the mod a message to be posted anonymously. Until someone dies from this claimed ability, I will not trust it.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I'll review the people who have posted content, but barely enough and are coasting by. KJ, Cantrip. Tubba. Also gotta read tom. I remember having some good feelings on him giving mechanical information, but I'm not sure how much credit that can be given since theoretically if he's in a 4-person faction (you, KJ, Shinichi, himself), one of you is bound to be town and so there's nothing to be gained from hiding that information since town already has it.
I remember reading Kami's posts. I guess I'll read them again because I don't remember what they said.
Vaimes is obvious town for the reasons you read Rodemy as town. Like, far more so even.
Explained Rodemy a little above.
forgot about Cantrip and KJ
tubba's posts give me the vibe that he wants us to know he exists and is actively trying to look town, but maybe that's premature, but definitely a fair assumption.
@Grape: are you alone in your faction?
I think Shinichi not knowing DV’s claim was fake makes him town.
KJ/tom/Wisp/Shinichi faction is a thing. tom believes there is scum in this faction because of statistical probability, or is there another reason for it?
Upgrade to full V/LA
Anything pressing I need to know/give an opinion on? I have about an hour or 2.
I will say I saw the daykill attempt from Rod... could be real. could be fake though. We won't know till later.
I didn't get that impression from you in Death in the Family. Do you have a town game available where (iyo) you were this "prickly"?
@RE
yes and and yes, there is no other reason that I remember
So you think it was a too early TMI sort of thing? Given how easy Vaimes is to read I'm going to say you're either hard confirmation biasing a gut read or you're scum desperately trying to justify a bad read.
Playstation. Honestly I feel no more prickly than I was in DitF. I would have used it as an example.
In a way you're all in my faction, but yeah I have no one I share a alt win con or chat with. For those at home this is a huge part of why I'm so suspicious of LnG.
Neither, but this is pointless banter. Cool, thanks.
Sorry?
But you're literally saying here that no one has given Vaimes a townread yet...
Then you began to attack me for things that were irrelevant, from my PoV. How I backed off D_V. Why I believed my push of LnGrrrR (if it could be called one) was different from yours.
@DV: are you alone in a faction too?
This actually makes me think you might be town at least. Scum you wouldn't act like this was a gotcha.
I dislike his being on LnGrrrR for his claim. The whole faction/factionless conversation could be agenda. He kind of stops solving to engage in the faction/factionless flavor/mechanical argument with LnGrrrR.
I actually kind of dislike 440. It kinda shades LnGrrrR, slightly shades HR I think as well, then votes Grape because theres a push.
I'm actually mildly confused by 448. The post it's referencing is pretty standard. Why the high townread? I'm guessing he answers to that at some point. Ah there it is. It's because Chris is only posting town clears. Saying this tells DV KA is scumhunting. Might be too easy of a townread?
His vote on Wisp, like his vote on you seems bandwagony. He then jumps off for some reason he keeps to himself. Could be null. Could be not. Depends on the reason.
Votes tom for... trying to lynch members of his faction?
Actually... in 718 he votes shin because tom makes a reference to a drawback being too low... and DV just responds with "toms right, vote Shin".
Tom: Did you out in the thread what that drawback you were referring to was? Is there any reason for DV to make this post?
He justifies it in 727 but it really feels like he's saying something different.
The conversation with shin is confusing, he seems to be mixing the two twins up.
He might be right about Rod's ability being real. IDK if it's town. We don't know what people have yet so scum could have a daykill. I wanna say I saw one once.
Summary: A fair bit is null, but I don't actually like his pushes. They actually all (save tom) seem... a bit bandwagony.
I'm scumleaning him now.
I can say if he's scum he's not with LnGrrrR. Maybe not with Wisp.
Unvote.
Much has happened since that vote was placed there that I haven't looked at, so I'm removing it.
So did four other people. You claimed factionless in a game in which the OP had then stated that everyone had a faction. It's completely logical that people would think you were mafia or a third party.
Right, because it's so self-explanatory.
Be less of a tryhard, LnGrrrR.
I was concerned about Grape's bandwagon because, at the time of my posting the question, it was the majority bandwagon.
So, in other words, you're admitting that none of your attacks against me have logic or reason to back them? Cool.
No, dude, this plan will not work.
I think maybe the point of confusion is you think that the vote totals will be revealed at the end of the day. But the OP doesn't say that. It just says the winner will be revealed. In which case, the objection is correct: the mafia could just vote to frame someone else, and we would have no idea. There's no risk to them, and no reward for us.
You, LnGrrrR.
That's a neat trick.
What the heck did I say that signaled that?
It’s not a trick. And I think you’re town for your Iron bank thing.
Which is why I thought you’re probably alone: otherwise someone from your faction might have blown that immediately, making that gambit useless.
The reason I’m asking is that if we have me, you, Lngr and Grape all being alone, the chance of having scum in a solo faction is huge.
I skimmed Grape’s ISO and his reactions to me and Lngr being solo are kind of weird for him being alone too.
You basically town-cleared me for it. Why?
And your musing about possible solo factions sounded very much like you didn’t expect solo factions. Were you planning on hiding that? And why?