@Hunger, if you are town, you need to fight against your lynch with everything you have. It will take everything that town has to win this game right now. We don't have the leverage to be ok with a lulzy who cares mislynch this game.
I dont think scum needs a way to manipulate the throne.
Its already secret voting and they can coordinate
Which is why i wanted to coordinate in thread if youll recall
But then they need a way to guarantee they get it. Even if they all vote for a single scum that's only 5 (or 6) votes vs 6 or 7 opposing votes. So it wouldn't be forced mylo and shadow doesn't make that post. So they do need a way to guarantee it. And actually 6 man team theory is off the possibilities given that. Because I can self vote and if the rest of town votes me it would be a tie if scum can also self vote. So it's pretty much guaranteed they have a guaranteed throne shot and we are just 7v5v1 right now.
If we survive toDay and I'm killed toNight, we need to look and see if someone maybe slipped info on being able to guarantee a throne nomination and/or all the people that said they could self-nominate. Actually I think the self-nominators are just me and KJ since we are the throne unlock people left. So if there isn't a throne guarenteer in the game, then it's a 6 person scum team and KJ/me are guaranteed scum (hint: it's not me). But actually a reasonable reason to shoot one of KJ/me toNight and probably lynch the other if somehow with a 6 person scum team Winds isn't part of it.
Oh, you did claim, that's right. No abilities other than the one locked until you sit the throne? Also, I will be impressed if this is you trying to set up a dichotomy between you and KJ so that if one of you gets shot toNight the other looks better.
@Cantrip, appreciate the read through on Chris. Certainly can't hurt, though at this point it would take some slam dunk evidence to pull me out of this tunnel.
I had already started before you took the Day by the horns, so I figured I might as well. I agree that it's unlikely that I'll find anything that makes me want to lynch Winds over Chris.
My apologies for not taking good notes/already knowing this as I really should: does anyone have a list of claimed info that they could post so we can look at what has been claimed, please?
@ShadowMod: (But we still have until June 8th, 1200 MST as a deadline, correct?)
LnG, I'm a little disappointed/nervous. I feel like by choosing Winds over Rhand/KJ/GJ you ARE treating this as a directed vig shot at Chris rather than an opportunity to gain insight into people's choices. I still feel like your ability is probably more likely to be town than scum, but...this actually gives me pause. Why go this route?
Because if we don't hit scum toDay, the game is over. I am going down with my ship that Chris is scum. If I am wrong... well... sorry I guess. Let's say I picked Rhand or hunger or something, and it ends up a second scum. Then scum just hop on the scummiest one and wifom anyways.
Plus I am like 99% certain no one was going against Chris anyways. Also, KJ moved me with his plea.
Pretty sure KJ is just super likely to be a wolf this game, but it's kind of whatever - think Chris gets lynched over him regardless.
I'm gonna just be operating off of the understanding that Chris is scum this game since if he's not game could be over.
Vaimes, Cantrip, Tom are all super obviously town this game. Would bet game on those 3 reads even if I were a villager here, and for all intents and purposes, I am, since I don't know who the wolves are.
GJ/Chris are probably not w/w, so if Chris is a wolf here, GJ is clear.
Chris and X=Y are never w/w.
Chris and Shinichi are unlikely to be w/w, but it's not impossible. Chris pushed him pretty hard on d1, but then kinda drifted off of that read.
That leaves what, like.
Killjoy, LnGrrrR, Rhand, Hunger?
I think there's a decent chance the team is just Chris/Killjoy/Rhand/Hunger tbh.
Here. It feels like wolves are trapped by PoE and Vaimes is where they've been trying to expand it.
@ShadowMod: (But we still have until June 8th, 1200 MST as a deadline, correct?)
LnG, I'm a little disappointed/nervous. I feel like by choosing Winds over Rhand/KJ/GJ you ARE treating this as a directed vig shot at Chris rather than an opportunity to gain insight into people's choices. I still feel like your ability is probably more likely to be town than scum, but...this actually gives me pause. Why go this route?
Because if we don't hit scum toDay, the game is over. I am going down with my ship that Chris is scum. If I am wrong... well... sorry I guess. Let's say I picked Rhand or hunger or something, and it ends up a second scum. Then scum just hop on the scummiest one and wifom anyways.
Plus I am like 99% certain no one was going against Chris anyways. Also, KJ moved me with his plea.
Pretty sure KJ is just super likely to be a wolf this game, but it's kind of whatever - think Chris gets lynched over him regardless.
I'm gonna just be operating off of the understanding that Chris is scum this game since if he's not game could be over.
Vaimes, Cantrip, Tom are all super obviously town this game. Would bet game on those 3 reads even if I were a villager here, and for all intents and purposes, I am, since I don't know who the wolves are.
GJ/Chris are probably not w/w, so if Chris is a wolf here, GJ is clear.
Chris and X=Y are never w/w.
Chris and Shinichi are unlikely to be w/w, but it's not impossible. Chris pushed him pretty hard on d1, but then kinda drifted off of that read.
That leaves what, like.
Killjoy, LnGrrrR, Rhand, Hunger?
I think there's a decent chance the team is just Chris/Killjoy/Rhand/Hunger tbh.
Here. It feels like wolves are trapped by PoE and Vaimes is where they've been trying to expand it.
No way is LnG scum after the trial or the champions are both town and the game is over. I will not accept that as an answer. That also means both KJ and I can self nominate which makes it super easy for the scum team to get the throne twice to push through unblockable kills AND give the scum team two more power roles.
So I am not accepting a PoE with LnG in it or a PoE with both me and KJ in it.
Which means it has to be in the towncore as a deep wolf which it could be (including Vaimes), or it's in GJ/xy.
Due to writing day start about 3 hours after I should have been asleep, and after some time contemplating/consulting my reviewers, I want to offer some clarity to my daystart message.
Town must lynch correctly today, else the game may possibly end in a town loss without another day.
GJ also seemed so detached from game and didn't even realize Chris claimed BP I think. Just doesn't feel like how w/w handles creating a false dichotomy
Winds, in what world does scum!me choose town!Vaimes to work this out?
Like sure, if I am scum maybe I can't do this with a fellow scumbuddy. But then why pick Vaimes, who is widely town read and also has fully expressed that Chris is his biggest scum?
I mean, if I had to pick a townie and everyone else in that pile is widely scum read, why do this at all?
Just... explain to me why scum!me does that. (Without saying something like, "lol who knows" or "lol bad player".)
Registering my intent to vote for Chris over Winds.
I'm not sure I understand the tinfoil world where Winds is scum with repeatable extra NK. In that world it feels like Chris/GJ would have to both be town (+some other protection role) and that doesn't make sense to me.
Again, why can't xy be scum with Chris? Being one-shot it's a fairly tame role that is public and the fact that he just can't shoot one of his buddies is like, not really gamebreaking?
Registering my intent to vote for Chris over Winds.
I'm not sure I understand the tinfoil world where Winds is scum with repeatable extra NK. In that world it feels like Chris/GJ would have to both be town (+some other protection role) and that doesn't make sense to me.
I pretty much retracted this as a possibility a few posts ago.
The key word there is "may", which clears things up slightly.
OK, I think that probably means they don't have the guaranteer role, but they have the ability to self nominate and have 5 votes for KJ and if KJ gets the throne the game is over with an unblockable NK.
Again, why can't xy be scum with Chris? Being one-shot it's a fairly tame role that is public and the fact that he just can't shoot one of his buddies is like, not really gamebreaking?
The mechanics are not why they aren't w/w. It's the in-thread behavioral aspect. Chris pounced on X=Y extremely opportunistically for making the 'bad' shot without genuine consideration for what it meant for his alignment. It's probably the biggest reason I started to lean towards Chris being a possible wolf in the first place. Doesn't look like a bus at all, looks like an attempt to lynch something he can call bad when that bad wasn't actually wolfy.
The key word there is "may", which clears things up slightly.
OK, I think that probably means they don't have the guaranteer role, but they have the ability to self nominate and have 5 votes for KJ and if KJ gets the throne the game is over with an unblockable NK.
I mean. I can still shoot a wolf too, or is this you claiming wolves definitely have a roleblocker
Again, why can't xy be scum with Chris? Being one-shot it's a fairly tame role that is public and the fact that he just can't shoot one of his buddies is like, not really gamebreaking?
The mechanics are not why they aren't w/w. It's the in-thread behavioral aspect. Chris pounced on X=Y extremely opportunistically for making the 'bad' shot without genuine consideration for what it meant for his alignment. It's probably the biggest reason I started to lean towards Chris being a possible wolf in the first place. Doesn't look like a bus at all, looks like an attempt to lynch something he can call bad when that bad wasn't actually wolfy.
Ahh, good point. Yeah, I am stuck in mechanics mode and should probably pick my head up a little bit.
Oh. Oh, this is too sweet. So, that extra ability of mine that Shinichi very kindly kept under wraps? It's a roleblock against the first kill made against me, and it reveals who performs the kill. (Flavorwise, it's Gilly's son alerting me to impending danger.) Guess who just tried to daykill me?
Tom.
Oh, Tom, you've been caught with your hand in the cookie jar. Nice try, but you chose poorly. You see, I have a dragonglass dagger.
Vote Tom
I know this probably won't work because of LnG's ability, but we have to try, and then no brakes on taking Tom out any way possible after that (Winds, I'm looking at you.)
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Im just a little in shock rn if this isnt just some kind of fancy play as town cantrips in such good position as a wolf that whstever this is has to be game winning somehow but i cant see the line...
Would have to be with chris because if chris town he could just let that happen
Cant be with lngrr because if the gambit was planned theyd have made me lynchable today?
I wanna say it has to be with shin otherwise town shin would know about BP and would have said but i dont actually trust town shin to have even realized what he was seeing...
I guess we found our deep wolf. Who knew, deep down, that Jon Snow had such jealousy of poor old Samwise Gamgee... I mean, Samwell Tarly. He loved you Frodo, er Jon Snow!
GJ also seemed so detached from game and didn't even realize Chris claimed BP I think. Just doesn't feel like how w/w handles creating a false dichotomy
Truthfully, I didn't know SC claimed bp. I just saw massclaim and figured I'd speed it up.
It's not so much that I am deattached, it's that I got thrown in with a long ass day 1, and bodies are hitting the floor at such a rate that I am exhausted.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Its already secret voting and they can coordinate
Which is why i wanted to coordinate in thread if youll recall
We have to do it
I had already started before you took the Day by the horns, so I figured I might as well. I agree that it's unlikely that I'll find anything that makes me want to lynch Winds over Chris.
My apologies for not taking good notes/already knowing this as I really should: does anyone have a list of claimed info that they could post so we can look at what has been claimed, please?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Oh. Well I guess if your dog kills me you still have Rhand available.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Town
Me
LnG
Cantrip
Tom
SK
Winds
Scum
KJ
Rhand
Chris
Shin
Need to sort
GJ
Vaimes
xy
Both GJ and xy seem a lot less likely scum with a Chris scum flip. So it's probably just Vaimes then.
Here. It feels like wolves are trapped by PoE and Vaimes is where they've been trying to expand it.
If you're also town means wolves are all in [Rhand, killjoy, LnG, Shinichi].
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Town would have no kill protection outside of one specific person being on throne. With my role + the wolves that's... super super unlikely.
So I am not accepting a PoE with LnG in it or a PoE with both me and KJ in it.
Which means it has to be in the towncore as a deep wolf which it could be (including Vaimes), or it's in GJ/xy.
Town must lynch correctly today, else the game may possibly end in a town loss without another day.
I apologize for any confusion this has instilled.
Like sure, if I am scum maybe I can't do this with a fellow scumbuddy. But then why pick Vaimes, who is widely town read and also has fully expressed that Chris is his biggest scum?
I mean, if I had to pick a townie and everyone else in that pile is widely scum read, why do this at all?
Just... explain to me why scum!me does that. (Without saying something like, "lol who knows" or "lol bad player".)
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I'm not sure I understand the tinfoil world where Winds is scum with repeatable extra NK. In that world it feels like Chris/GJ would have to both be town (+some other protection role) and that doesn't make sense to me.
The mechanics are not why they aren't w/w. It's the in-thread behavioral aspect. Chris pounced on X=Y extremely opportunistically for making the 'bad' shot without genuine consideration for what it meant for his alignment. It's probably the biggest reason I started to lean towards Chris being a possible wolf in the first place. Doesn't look like a bus at all, looks like an attempt to lynch something he can call bad when that bad wasn't actually wolfy.
I mean. I can still shoot a wolf too, or is this you claiming wolves definitely have a roleblocker
Tom.
Oh, Tom, you've been caught with your hand in the cookie jar. Nice try, but you chose poorly. You see, I have a dragonglass dagger.
Vote Tom
I know this probably won't work because of LnG's ability, but we have to try, and then no brakes on taking Tom out any way possible after that (Winds, I'm looking at you.)
Vote tom
Vote tom
That's fun.
Shin: is he telling the truth?
I dont have a daykill so...
But im not sure this even makes sense as a scum gambit...?
I really just thought cantrip was town but now i dont know what to think.
Wtf
Would have to be with chris because if chris town he could just let that happen
Cant be with lngrr because if the gambit was planned theyd have made me lynchable today?
I wanna say it has to be with shin otherwise town shin would know about BP and would have said but i dont actually trust town shin to have even realized what he was seeing...
Ack
Dont know anything else rn
Vote Tom
I guess we found our deep wolf. Who knew, deep down, that Jon Snow had such jealousy of poor old Samwise Gamgee... I mean, Samwell Tarly. He loved you Frodo, er Jon Snow!
You know nothing!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Why does this sound familiar?
Voting SC over winds.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Truthfully, I didn't know SC claimed bp. I just saw massclaim and figured I'd speed it up.
It's not so much that I am deattached, it's that I got thrown in with a long ass day 1, and bodies are hitting the floor at such a rate that I am exhausted.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Vote Tom
Shin: you and I need to vote Rhand for the next Lynch to get that win Con fulfilled.