I read KJ’s iso.
If he’s scum, he’s scum with lngr for how he handled that wagon D1.
His eod behavior yesterDay is worrysome.
His early game play is strong, but after that his questioning gets less aim.
I read through thousand’s iso again.
I don’t think he believes this strong Chris read. I think he just wants to lynch anyone not stark / nightwatch and feels support there.
His Chris read can’t be as solid as he portrays now given how he waffled about him yesterDay and was convinced Chris would never allow the N1 kill.
Speaking about that kill, his posts make clear he knows who the NK was and who was “vigged” on N1.
@Thousand: care to enlighten us on who the NK was N2?
And your reasons for shooting the other?
Anyway i didn't remember right at all what happened but lngrr claimed no wincons in RVS and i think i believe him therefore...
And thats where i stopped tbh
I thought he claimed no faction, when the OP says everyone has a faction.
People just went like ??? no wolf would lie about that, and wrote him off as a town, or something.
I dunno, just think he's worth re-examining given the PoE + him kind of coasting on it + him looking bad on a lot of vote counts surrounded by confirmed not-wolves.
lol it was me
Now all i remember is thinking it was true and talking loudly
For sure needs reexamination ive been HARD ignoring him
I read through thousand’s iso again.
I don’t think he believes this strong Chris read. I think he just wants to lynch anyone not stark / nightwatch and feels support there.
His Chris read can’t be as solid as he portrays now given how he waffled about him yesterDay and was convinced Chris would never allow the N1 kill.
Speaking about that kill, his posts make clear he knows who the NK was and who was “vigged” on N1.
@Thousand: care to enlighten us on who the NK was N2?
And your reasons for shooting the other?
@tom: x=y being scum would be a lot of anti-town killing power. I would be baffled if that’s the case.
Why does the Kami flip change things wrt Chris?
My poe is now 4 scum in Chris, Vaimes, Lngr, KJ, Shin.
If KJ is scum, Lngr is too, which means Lngr has to be scum here (if I didn’t wrongly townclear anyone)
@tom: x=y being scum would be a lot of anti-town killing power. I would be baffled if that’s the case.
Why does the Kami flip change things wrt Chris?
My poe is now 4 scum in Chris, Vaimes, Lngr, KJ, Shin.
If KJ is scum, Lngr is too, which means Lngr has to be scum here (if I didn’t wrongly townclear anyone)
vote Lngr
i mean
If you believe x=y, kami, and winds are non mafia killpower...
That would make a lot of sense.
And Vaimes is scum for the Stark wincon to have a scum target. Having to lynch 2 town would be nuts.
So last scum is KJ or Shin.
lol I find it hilarious that Rhand votes me over Vaimes or Chris. Keep the votes coming boys. It will just give another wagon to determine who's scum and who isn't.
@Rhand, if you had to lynch someone that wasn't me, who would you pick?
Also, please explain why KJ and I would have to be scum together.
@Tom, you think there's an SK out there along with a scum day-vig? That's... a lot of killing power against town. I would think that would make you MORE inclined to believe Sir Chris is bulletproof. Plus, it would be pretty ballsy for SC to claim bulletproof after last game where he was also bulletproof (1 shot, DitF mafia.)
@everyone, suggest we use the first L-2 lynch as the one who X=Y shoots, pending claim. Also, we probably don't want to wait until last minute.
That would make a lot of sense.
And Vaimes is scum for the Stark wincon to have a scum target. Having to lynch 2 town would be nuts.
So last scum is KJ or Shin.
or theres scum in the starks, maybe even 2, and im supposed to help them kill townies
Or you're scum
Or its randomized somehow and none of this matters
Really im at 1 or 2 scum in kj>you>shin>vaimes aorn. 3 or 0 seems very unlikely.
That was @Lngr.
@tom: if there’s 2 scum in stark and none in the lannisters, then the stark that rolled town has an anti-town wincon. I don’t think Shadow would do that.
I also don’t think it was randomised. That would make this game way too swingy.
Also, please explain why KJ and I would have to be scum together.
@Tom, you think there's an SK out there along with a scum day-vig? That's... a lot of killing power against town. I would think that would make you MORE inclined to believe Sir Chris is bulletproof. Plus, it would be pretty ballsy for SC to claim bulletproof after last game where he was also bulletproof (1 shot, DitF mafia.)
@everyone, suggest we use the first L-2 lynch as the one who X=Y shoots, pending claim. Also, we probably don't want to wait until last minute.
no, im saying because winds is SK, winds is more likely town and therefore chris is probably a wolf
That was @Lngr.
@tom: if there’s 2 scum in stark and none in the lannisters, then the stark that rolled town has an anti-town wincon. I don’t think Shadow would do that.
I also don’t think it was randomised. That would make this game way too swingy.
like, youre not wrong about 2 scum starks.
I have been saying that forever, and even that most likely was 1 stark+1 lannister since it allows scum to game the wincons
North vs south does feel a bit like a modgaming trap ill ponder on it
@Rhand, I guess my point is, I pretty much scumread Grape most of the day. Not sure why KJ pushing that wagon along would also make me scum, rather than KJ just taking advantage of a train. Could you point out something specific?
All these lurkers are bothering me. From my perspective...
Vaimes - Active
Sir Chris - Lurky
Cantripmancer - Active
Shinichi - Lurky
Rhand - Active
Hunger - Lurky
LnGrrrR - Active
Gentleman Johnny (r. Cobalt) - Lurky
XequalsY (r. Rodemy) - Active
Killjoy - Active
Thousand_Winds (r. D_V) - Active
tomsloger - Active
4 lurkers in a game of 13. Yuck.
@Tom, I argued with HR (as I tend to), because he thought I was trying to spoil factions due to my own faction, and then I told him I don't have one.
@Rhand, could you explain in detail? Also, what page was my wagon on? I haven't dug up the non-official wagons yet.
@Rhand, because he isn't very good as scum? *shrug* He was scum with Rod and I in DitF (and mind), and Rod ended up carrying us due to being a lock townread.
I don't know what Highroller or Grape is smoking thinking that LnGrrR isn't town. 367,400 are pretty great examples of townie frustration.
Given that, [Rhand, Last, Grape, DV, Highroller] probably contains at least one scum.
Rhand's was RVS I think, so I guess discount that.
Last's memeing is, like I said, not what I look for in town!Last. Eventually he just kinda happens for me as he plays. He's not quite there yet.
I think Highroller is being the same Highroller as DitF. For now I'm gonna townlean him for that. His crazy, off the wall thought processes just don't seem scummy naturally.
DV is being the same DV I'm used to. Also his entrance into the game makes me wanna think he's less likely scum than not.
Grape I dislike. His read on LnGrrR is bad. His tone feels wrong. Also he seems to have forgotten how fake he thinks I am apparently? That's mildly hilarious.
Other people:
Vaimes is town. This is the town!Vaimes I missed in DitF. He's having opinions, he's doing stuff..
I'm kinda annoyed that I have to wait until the 15th to get a solid read on Rhand.
I'm kinda annoyed that I have to wait until some time in the future to get solider read on RE.
He clears you and then looks for scum in a pile of townies/neutral.
peak of last wagon:
Last (7): RE, tom, Rhand, Vaimes, HR, kami, rod>x=y
grape (3): LnGrr, DV>winds, last
Rhand (2): kj, 1053
DV>wibds (1): grape
Shin (1): Chris
Not Voting (6): Shin, Tubba, GJ, Cantrip, Hunger
Rhand wagon overtaking:
Rhand (5): 1053, tom, DV>winds, kj, kami
Last (4): Rhand, HR, Rod>x=y, tubba
HR (2):gj, last
Shin (2): Chris, vaimes
Grape (1): LnGrr
Cantrip (1): RE
Kami (1): grape
Not Voting (3): shin, cantrip, Hunger
Three wagons on flipped town:
Rhand (4): tom, DV>winds, kj, kami
Last (3): HR, Rod>x=y, tubba
HR (3):gj, last, rhand
Shin (3): Chris, vaimes, cantrip
Grape (3): LnGrr, 1053, shin
Cantrip (1): RE
Kami (1): grape
Not Voting (6): 1053nm, Shinichi, Hunger, Tubba Fett, Coballt, Cantripmancer
With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is May 14th at 1700 MST.
A reminder about Iron Throne support: All support must be done via PM (either MTGS or discord), and can be changed as many times as you wish up until twilight is announced.
@Rhand, I guess what I'm not getting, is why would that mean I'm scum, rather than just trying to use a wagon to shed suspicion on townies?
We really need to figure out this shot in like... the next two days. We have stuff to discuss afterwards, plus maybe a full claim. We can't do all that usefully in 3 real life days.
I think Tom is town. I think Vaimes is town. I think X=Y is town. I think Winds is a neutral SK. Cantrip is probably town?
That gives me a pool of Sir Chris, KJ, GJ, Shin, Rhand/Hunger, probably in that order.
@Lngr: you don’t think Vaimes could improve his scum game?
I guess you’re right about KJ/you.
Which means it’s Chris/Vaimes/ 2 out of (Lngr, KJ, Shin).
You keep saying we should decide the x=y kill fast, but you’re not voting anyone. Why is that?
@Rhand, eh, it is a possibility but not one I would put much mind to. I definitely don't think he is the best lynch toDay.
Good point about the not voting.
Vote Killjoy
If Chris is bulletproof, X won't kill him and it's a waste. GJ is also ok, but I don't think there is enough momentum. I think Shin or KJ are our best options.
Hi everyone, I've been moving into my new place the last week. I now have 700mb internet and also some observations
1. I have town read both lynches. I told you that lynching both of those wasn't the way to go. And yet, somehow, epic "town leader Vaimes" and now "special assistant to the King" Winds found those lynches totally cool and are following up by trying to kill another town member.
2. The above doesn't have to mean they are both scum, in fact if Vaimes is scum I doubt Winds is due to boldness issues in vaimes' scum identity, namely that he doesn't have any. However I think we all need to recognize that scum has been outplaying us...
also I got a mechanical keyboard for the first time in a year oh my god it is s easy to type on this thing.
Anyway scum has been outplaying us and a large reason why is my voice has been effectively silenced because I have not been able to be as active as I usually am. My town reads? Ignored. My scum reads? Not pushed. Look at the game state and look how many dead townies I leaned town on and you may start to realize that Chris isn't the scum mastermind, but merely the town member who has had a very hectic time of it.
I grilled x=y in targ chat last night. He did not respond well. Hunger can hopefully back this up that his rely to me was garbage and was the bare standard of "please stop hurting me" as I poked him a few times.
[b#]#vote: x=y[/b]
This is not town. I am acting against my targ wincon by letting you all know "this is not town" and it is infuriating that, collectively at least, youy are all caught in second tier meta of day vig or something to excuse not lynching this slot. Spoiler: I am better than all of you, my activity in this game be damned. There is no town meta that any of you understand better than me. No role meta that is beyond the scope of my two decade of mafia experience. Your excuses are weak, and when this slot flips scum (night chat seriously nailed this home that he is not in a town progression mindset - he just repeated himself weakly) I am very much willing to wager that some people who defended this and pushed onto KA are scum.
So come after me if you want but a word of warning I have internet and a bit more free time and I will knock you the **** out right now, because we are very close to losing because I couldn't hard carry you guys. I shouldn't have to hard carry every game. It is town's duty to have EVERYONE contribute. But fine. One last time on MTG, ONE LAST TIME TO THE WELL OF HARD CARRY for this listless, pathetic town as a collective.
Wake the **** up and listen to me or lynch me, but we're not lynching anyone but x=y unless it is me so I can at least say I put my money where my mouth is.
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2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Also I don't know how any of you expect me to go back and read this game when you can't even do step one. If I can't get the obvious scum Killing Power lynched then I may as well book a cruise and forgot about all of you. Show me this game is salvageable before I spend hours of my time devoting myself to a complete understanding of the game. It's called compromise.
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@Chris, can you give us what you think the likely scumteam is? Or a rainbow town/scum list?
If X=Y is scum, then why not try to get him to hit other scum with his shot? Sure, I know he probably won't actually shoot at his fellow scum, but wouldn't that be telling?
I'll claim it at some point today, but there's something that doesn't quite make sense, and might be able to get a lock read on someone based on it, first.
I will say I have two alternate win conditions, but I don't even know what the second one is myself yet. Presumably it gets unlocked by some condition being met but it hasn't happened.
Honestly I was trying to avoid this because I really wanted to believe you were a town aligned vigilante and I was trying to pressure you to claim. I dont know at the point of quoting this if you claimed though. I was trying to push the world where the the day vig was scum and the vigilante existed yet you were trying to push that an sk existed and day vig was town. You have a night killing ability so your either sk or vig. Since you dont wanna out your vigilante my only assumption is that your the sk. I know your role through my ability, not sure why u wouldn't claiming u have a killing ability unless your sk, especially since many others asked the person who was making the 2nd kills to claim.
Only other theory is day vig is town and your scum that can make the 2nd kill of somrt sorts.
We aren't rushing the lynch; we are rushing the X=Y shot.
@Shin, so... you knew Thousand Winds ability but tried to push a world in which the day vig was scum because... why? Saving a faction mate?
Saving a fraction mate? I just realize at the start of this day that he was sk literally around the time I asked for his alt win con it clicked. I was like ***** hes not putting hes vig because hes the sk.
Not sure what factional buddy your talking about, his shot ability doesnt effect start members or night watch. So he cant harm my faction at all.
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If he’s scum, he’s scum with lngr for how he handled that wagon D1.
His eod behavior yesterDay is worrysome.
His early game play is strong, but after that his questioning gets less aim.
Might be scum, but I’m not 100% convinced.
Gonna reread thousand’s iso now.
@ThousandWinds, I have seen pushing Sir Chris for awhile. Lets take care of him first, ok?
Think we should vote on the shot.
@Tom, who's the towniest non-Stark/north?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Will try and get something contentful out today or tomorrow anyway since we only have 1 week. Not sure how coherent I will be though.
I made a large post a little bit ago walking through the game and explaining clears/PoE.
I also claimed neutral survivor variant that needs Starks/Night Watch alive. I'm never a wolf this game.
I'd recommend reading through that post and giving thoughts if you could.
I don’t think he believes this strong Chris read. I think he just wants to lynch anyone not stark / nightwatch and feels support there.
His Chris read can’t be as solid as he portrays now given how he waffled about him yesterDay and was convinced Chris would never allow the N1 kill.
Speaking about that kill, his posts make clear he knows who the NK was and who was “vigged” on N1.
@Thousand: care to enlighten us on who the NK was N2?
And your reasons for shooting the other?
Now all i remember is thinking it was true and talking loudly
For sure needs
reexamination ive been HARD ignoring himHow does it matter to you when KJ dies?
After that its a mess of shrugs at best.
Still planning reread though im just a bit pumped atm
X=y can totally still be scum btw just think its some amount less likely with winds as SK
On my phone so can’t quote your specific thing easily. But I’m pretty sure Hunger has also claimed to have a throne unlock.
Ill look
Why does the Kami flip change things wrt Chris?
My poe is now 4 scum in Chris, Vaimes, Lngr, KJ, Shin.
If KJ is scum, Lngr is too, which means Lngr has to be scum here (if I didn’t wrongly townclear anyone)
vote Lngr
If you believe x=y, kami, and winds are non mafia killpower...
Chris = mafia bulletproof?
And Vaimes is scum for the Stark wincon to have a scum target. Having to lynch 2 town would be nuts.
So last scum is KJ or Shin.
@Rhand, if you had to lynch someone that wasn't me, who would you pick?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
@Tom, you think there's an SK out there along with a scum day-vig? That's... a lot of killing power against town. I would think that would make you MORE inclined to believe Sir Chris is bulletproof. Plus, it would be pretty ballsy for SC to claim bulletproof after last game where he was also bulletproof (1 shot, DitF mafia.)
@everyone, suggest we use the first L-2 lynch as the one who X=Y shoots, pending claim. Also, we probably don't want to wait until last minute.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Or you're scum
Or its randomized somehow and none of this matters
Really im at 1 or 2 scum in kj>you>shin>vaimes aorn. 3 or 0 seems very unlikely.
@tom: if there’s 2 scum in stark and none in the lannisters, then the stark that rolled town has an anti-town wincon. I don’t think Shadow would do that.
I also don’t think it was randomised. That would make this game way too swingy.
I do still find x=y fairly scummy though.
I have been saying that forever, and even that most likely was 1 stark+1 lannister since it allows scum to game the wincons
North vs south does feel a bit like a modgaming trap ill ponder on it
I just think vaimes is town anyway
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
vote Vaimes
He just has to be scum and I want to achieve my wincon.
Vaimes - Active
Sir Chris - Lurky
Cantripmancer - Active
Shinichi - Lurky
Rhand - Active
Hunger - Lurky
LnGrrrR - Active
Gentleman Johnny (r. Cobalt) - Lurky
XequalsY (r. Rodemy) - Active
Killjoy - Active
Thousand_Winds (r. D_V) - Active
tomsloger - Active
4 lurkers in a game of 13. Yuck.
@Tom, I argued with HR (as I tend to), because he thought I was trying to spoil factions due to my own faction, and then I told him I don't have one.
@Rhand, could you explain in detail? Also, what page was my wagon on? I haven't dug up the non-official wagons yet.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
KJ’s reaction is this:
He clears you and then looks for scum in a pile of townies/neutral.
peak of last wagon:
Last (7): RE, tom, Rhand, Vaimes, HR, kami, rod>x=y
grape (3): LnGrr, DV>winds, last
Rhand (2): kj, 1053
DV>wibds (1): grape
Shin (1): Chris
Not Voting (6): Shin, Tubba, GJ, Cantrip, Hunger
Rhand wagon overtaking:
Rhand (5): 1053, tom, DV>winds, kj, kami
Last (4): Rhand, HR, Rod>x=y, tubba
HR (2):gj, last
Shin (2): Chris, vaimes
Grape (1): LnGrr
Cantrip (1): RE
Kami (1): grape
Not Voting (3): shin, cantrip, Hunger
Three wagons on flipped town:
Rhand (4): tom, DV>winds, kj, kami
Last (3): HR, Rod>x=y, tubba
HR (3):gj, last, rhand
Shin (3): Chris, vaimes, cantrip
Grape (3): LnGrr, 1053, shin
Cantrip (1): RE
Kami (1): grape
Not Voting (1): Hunger
@Rhand, I guess what I'm not getting, is why would that mean I'm scum, rather than just trying to use a wagon to shed suspicion on townies?
We really need to figure out this shot in like... the next two days. We have stuff to discuss afterwards, plus maybe a full claim. We can't do all that usefully in 3 real life days.
I think Tom is town. I think Vaimes is town. I think X=Y is town. I think Winds is a neutral SK. Cantrip is probably town?
That gives me a pool of Sir Chris, KJ, GJ, Shin, Rhand/Hunger, probably in that order.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I guess you’re right about KJ/you.
Which means it’s Chris/Vaimes/ 2 out of (Lngr, KJ, Shin).
You keep saying we should decide the x=y kill fast, but you’re not voting anyone. Why is that?
Good point about the not voting.
Vote Killjoy
If Chris is bulletproof, X won't kill him and it's a waste. GJ is also ok, but I don't think there is enough momentum. I think Shin or KJ are our best options.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I want to lynch Vaimes for my wincon, not have him shot.
vote Killjoy works for me. Both in my POE and a Stark, so Thousand won’t shoot him.
I’m gonna vote Hunger for the throne.
~~~~~
Chris (2): Vaimes, winds
Kj (2): lngrr, rhand
X=Y (1): Shin
Rhand (1): Vaimes*
Not Voting (7): Kj, Hunger, Cantrip, GJ, X=Y, Chris, tom
Unvote
VIRTUAL VOTE: KILLJOY
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
1. I have town read both lynches. I told you that lynching both of those wasn't the way to go. And yet, somehow, epic "town leader Vaimes" and now "special assistant to the King" Winds found those lynches totally cool and are following up by trying to kill another town member.
2. The above doesn't have to mean they are both scum, in fact if Vaimes is scum I doubt Winds is due to boldness issues in vaimes' scum identity, namely that he doesn't have any. However I think we all need to recognize that scum has been outplaying us...
also I got a mechanical keyboard for the first time in a year oh my god it is s easy to type on this thing.
Anyway scum has been outplaying us and a large reason why is my voice has been effectively silenced because I have not been able to be as active as I usually am. My town reads? Ignored. My scum reads? Not pushed. Look at the game state and look how many dead townies I leaned town on and you may start to realize that Chris isn't the scum mastermind, but merely the town member who has had a very hectic time of it.
I grilled x=y in targ chat last night. He did not respond well. Hunger can hopefully back this up that his rely to me was garbage and was the bare standard of "please stop hurting me" as I poked him a few times.
[b#]#vote: x=y[/b]
This is not town. I am acting against my targ wincon by letting you all know "this is not town" and it is infuriating that, collectively at least, youy are all caught in second tier meta of day vig or something to excuse not lynching this slot. Spoiler: I am better than all of you, my activity in this game be damned. There is no town meta that any of you understand better than me. No role meta that is beyond the scope of my two decade of mafia experience. Your excuses are weak, and when this slot flips scum (night chat seriously nailed this home that he is not in a town progression mindset - he just repeated himself weakly) I am very much willing to wager that some people who defended this and pushed onto KA are scum.
So come after me if you want but a word of warning I have internet and a bit more free time and I will knock you the **** out right now, because we are very close to losing because I couldn't hard carry you guys. I shouldn't have to hard carry every game. It is town's duty to have EVERYONE contribute. But fine. One last time on MTG, ONE LAST TIME TO THE WELL OF HARD CARRY for this listless, pathetic town as a collective.
Wake the **** up and listen to me or lynch me, but we're not lynching anyone but x=y unless it is me so I can at least say I put my money where my mouth is.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
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2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
If X=Y is scum, then why not try to get him to hit other scum with his shot? Sure, I know he probably won't actually shoot at his fellow scum, but wouldn't that be telling?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I don’t even really know what to say.
Can’t properly process the last couple pages until tonight slash tomorrow but I’m glad MTGS is getting some neutral love before it dies.
Honestly I was trying to avoid this because I really wanted to believe you were a town aligned vigilante and I was trying to pressure you to claim. I dont know at the point of quoting this if you claimed though. I was trying to push the world where the the day vig was scum and the vigilante existed yet you were trying to push that an sk existed and day vig was town. You have a night killing ability so your either sk or vig. Since you dont wanna out your vigilante my only assumption is that your the sk. I know your role through my ability, not sure why u wouldn't claiming u have a killing ability unless your sk, especially since many others asked the person who was making the 2nd kills to claim.
Only other theory is day vig is town and your scum that can make the 2nd kill of somrt sorts.
I'm getting the same feeling as you, however I still want to figure out tw now and xy.
@Shin, so... you knew Thousand Winds ability but tried to push a world in which the day vig was scum because... why? Saving a faction mate?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Saving a fraction mate? I just realize at the start of this day that he was sk literally around the time I asked for his alt win con it clicked. I was like ***** hes not putting hes vig because hes the sk.
Not sure what factional buddy your talking about, his shot ability doesnt effect start members or night watch. So he cant harm my faction at all.