@vaimes
shin doesn't give a heck about what you think, he will continue the same behavior
??? Rude. Personal things sir. And out of respect to shadow I am going to not replace, but expect low posting this game.
I will not go into it. But mental health is important. Keep up with it guys.
Its fine to have mental health problems, but please refrain from making posts about it. Outside of the game, I care about the health of everyone, but in game I will not have someone tell me they're sick so I should treat them differently. Sorry, but not sorry.
I respect the problems that every indivudal faces but this is a game where I wont have ruined because people are upset or stressed.
Hello again. Wow, some definite aggression in this thread. Not sure I have time to actively throw myself into any of these debates at the moment, especially considering I don't feel strongly about any of my reads, but thought I'd share some notes:
First off, not sure what to make of the LW/Shin interaction. At first I thought LW was scummy for switching from being initially laidback/humorous in the thread to very aggressive and back. Seemed way over the top. But now I think maybe he's just temperamental. Shin's also all over the place. But they're actually actively engaged and interacting with people, so maybe hold off on killing them day 1--especially if Shin's always lynched day 1 (not sure if that's true like LW said, but if it is that sucks). It seems like one or both of them will be lynched before the end regardless so not in a huge hurry this second when they can potentially give us more info and easily be lynched later.
Rodemy had a super energetic entrance followed by...nothing. Seemed scummy to me. Like he knew up front he needed to be energetic but then wasn't actually excited and couldn't keep it going. Also, Rod/Chris are likely part of the same faction if not w/w since they have both been what I read as overly mutually supportive--suspect alt win condition.
Tom and his two factions. He has completely thrown one faction under the bus, while not revealing any info about his second faction as I understand it. 3 likely options:
1) He genuinely thinks the faction he threw under the bus has 1+ scum. In the case that he only thought there was 1 scum, I would argue he should have just targeted the player he thinks is scum instead of giving up the whole faction
2) He thinks he can better achieve one of his altwin conditions by throwing this specific faction under the bus. Seems more likely. Theon, are you there?
3) He's scum, knows that there is no scum in this faction, but also knows that LW, Shin, and KJ have all been critically analyzed and jumps at the opportunity of grouping them together and saying there's 1+ scum. By outing them as a faction maybe he hoped to take the heat off himself. In any case, with 19 players I'm assuming that there are at least 5 mafia, which means that Tom telling us that there is at least 1 mafia in his faction of 4 is just statistically probable and could pretty much be said about any random grouping of 4
D_V: Iron Bank sounds legitimate. Leaning towards too bold to fake. NAI though. It would be really interesting having a mafia iron bank because they'd naturally be in a position to stay alive if people thought of them as a neutral party/useful resource, but again no read on him right now to make me lean one way or the other. Not sure why D-V hardcore claimed LW is not scum and said he wouldn't discuss further #561. Putting that hard line down doesn't actually do much in the way of protecting LW and with how everyone talks about "town confidence" could just be scum imitating that. Ironically, if we find out LW is scum, that would probably clear DV to me because don't think he would risk the double bluff.
Highroller: already commented on one of his interactions with LW that seemed reasonable/town, but didn't pick up anything new recently to make me lean one way or the other.
Hunger's point about the dual-edged sword of Sir Chris nomination makes sense #354 and Rod/Chris never responded as far as I know. Hasn't done much since. Weak townlean.
I need to review all of Grape's stuff so not going to comment on that now.
Can someone please explain to me why Grapefruit is the leading wagon?
Can you explain why he shouldn't be?
What an incredibly unhelpful post!
No, seriously, what is the reason for the Grapefruit wagon? You, for example, jumped on it with no explanation.
Regarding the Iron Throne: If the mafia have daychat, that means one of them is likely to start out with 4 votes just right off the bat. Even without daychat, we are still very likely to be at a disadvantage from the get-go. A mafia on the throne would be bad news for any town. We should work to avoid that.
Personally, I think the vote would best go to either Vaimes or myself. Vaimes because I agree that we're dealing with TownVaimes, and myself because I think pretty much everyone who's played with me in a previous game has said, "Yeah, Highroller's in keeping with his past behavior."
@vaimes
shin doesn't give a heck about what you think, he will continue the same behavior
??? Rude. Personal things sir. And out of respect to shadow I am going to not replace, but expect low posting this game.
I will not go into it. But mental health is important. Keep up with it guys.
Its fine to have mental health problems, but please refrain from making posts about it. Outside of the game, I care about the health of everyone, but in game I will not have someone tell me they're sick so I should treat them differently. Sorry, but not sorry.
I respect the problems that every indivudal faces but this is a game where I wont have ruined because people are upset or stressed.
What the ****.
He's saying he is busy and he isn't going to post much.
Ftr, i didnt plan to out my faction, just awkwardly shuffle them in my reads til it became obvious.
Last said he was with me and shin. I just added kj for completeness.
Shin>last>kj
1 scum in the 3>0 scum>2 scum
You may include me in this how you will
For the record, I've got my other faction as slightly less likely than rand to contain scum. By both win condition and flavor, though i dont know how much stock to put in either of those tbh
No further info given
Hello again. Wow, some definite aggression in this thread. Not sure I have time to actively throw myself into any of these debates at the moment, especially considering I don't feel strongly about any of my reads, but thought I'd share some notes:
First off, not sure what to make of the LW/Shin interaction. At first I thought LW was scummy for switching from being initially laidback/humorous in the thread to very aggressive and back. Seemed way over the top. But now I think maybe he's just temperamental. Shin's also all over the place. But they're actually actively engaged and interacting with people, so maybe hold off on killing them day 1--especially if Shin's always lynched day 1 (not sure if that's true like LW said, but if it is that sucks). It seems like one or both of them will be lynched before the end regardless so not in a huge hurry this second when they can potentially give us more info and easily be lynched later.
Rodemy had a super energetic entrance followed by...nothing. Seemed scummy to me. Like he knew up front he needed to be energetic but then wasn't actually excited and couldn't keep it going. Also, Rod/Chris are likely part of the same faction if not w/w since they have both been what I read as overly mutually supportive--suspect alt win condition.
Tom and his two factions. He has completely thrown one faction under the bus, while not revealing any info about his second faction as I understand it. 3 likely options:
1) He genuinely thinks the faction he threw under the bus has 1+ scum. In the case that he only thought there was 1 scum, I would argue he should have just targeted the player he thinks is scum instead of giving up the whole faction
2) He thinks he can better achieve one of his altwin conditions by throwing this specific faction under the bus. Seems more likely. Theon, are you there?
3) He's scum, knows that there is no scum in this faction, but also knows that LW, Shin, and KJ have all been critically analyzed and jumps at the opportunity of grouping them together and saying there's 1+ scum. By outing them as a faction maybe he hoped to take the heat off himself. In any case, with 19 players I'm assuming that there are at least 5 mafia, which means that Tom telling us that there is at least 1 mafia in his faction of 4 is just statistically probable and could pretty much be said about any random grouping of 4
D_V: Iron Bank sounds legitimate. Leaning towards too bold to fake. NAI though. It would be really interesting having a mafia iron bank because they'd naturally be in a position to stay alive if people thought of them as a neutral party/useful resource, but again no read on him right now to make me lean one way or the other. Not sure why D-V hardcore claimed LW is not scum and said he wouldn't discuss further #561. Putting that hard line down doesn't actually do much in the way of protecting LW and with how everyone talks about "town confidence" could just be scum imitating that. Ironically, if we find out LW is scum, that would probably clear DV to me because don't think he would risk the double bluff.
Highroller: already commented on one of his interactions with LW that seemed reasonable/town, but didn't pick up anything new recently to make me lean one way or the other.
Hunger's point about the dual-edged sword of Sir Chris nomination makes sense #354 and Rod/Chris never responded as far as I know. Hasn't done much since. Weak townlean.
I need to review all of Grape's stuff so not going to comment on that now.
Mafia breeds aggression there really is no way to avoid it when playing the game, just don't let the game play you :D. Even if you don't want to involve yourself with any of the squabbles its still good hearing what you have to say. Nothing to really take from the interaction because we're both town despite what others say. Atleast I know i am town and I can say i accurately read him since hes my brother. I can also be tempermental if pushed hard enough :evil:, I don't care who wants to lynch me. My problem is I don't take kindly to being down played as just a mislynch because town is so bad at scum hunting on d1 they rather ice me than actual scum. As for the always lynched d1 yes it holds a lot of weight to it. Most of the cases are similar to this game where ill make a small or a few condtradiction then i get eaten alive. Trust me, I won't be lynched not now not never ;).
Rodemy entrance was him being a fan of GOT nothing more nothing less, I don't know why people keep bringing that up as if its suppose to mean something. He didnt need to be anything, he was energetic because he loves GOT. I would react the same way epending on the flavor. Its funny hearing that because i scum read them both so i am curious to know why you have them tied together.
Tom and his beautiful little factions, I ain't sure what kind of game he is playing here. I am just very curious as to why he is so certain only 1 has to scum it and not the other. Then again I'm assuming the person he scum reads in one of his factions is none only that the greatest player ever Shin-chan :D. Im assuming the faction he wants to win with would be the one I ain't in which if scum is on that it could hurt the town. Then again he could just be scum protecting the faction that has more of his buddies. So, for the most part, I like this post and I will have to agree with you on much of what you say about tom, though not sure yet of which alignment or should I say the situation is more likely to be happening.
I won't say much on DV because he is 3rd part that doesn't seem to pose a threat too town as of yet, and I care very little for hitting at 3rd party when mafia exist who can slowly burn us to death. As for what your saying about the double bluff its more than likely to be something that both my brother and dv could play at if they were scum together.
Hr has very strong viewpoints which i refuse to follow till he gets his head out of the gutter.
@vaimes
shin doesn't give a heck about what you think, he will continue the same behavior
??? Rude. Personal things sir. And out of respect to shadow I am going to not replace, but expect low posting this game.
I will not go into it. But mental health is important. Keep up with it guys.
Its fine to have mental health problems, but please refrain from making posts about it. Outside of the game, I care about the health of everyone, but in game I will not have someone tell me they're sick so I should treat them differently. Sorry, but not sorry.
I respect the problems that every indivudal faces but this is a game where I wont have ruined because people are upset or stressed.
What the ****.
He's saying he is busy and he isn't going to post much.
**** off. How dare you.
I'm not reading him based off that though, I have never once said hes posting very little so he has to be scum. I'm scum reading him based on what hes already posted, all i did was clarify that him being busy wouldnt effect my read on him or change it anyway. So please don't play me as heartless. I play the game without emotion but I care about everyone outside of this game. Don't you dare tell me to **** off because i refuse be told to back off of a player because they're busy.
Ftr, i didnt plan to out my faction, just awkwardly shuffle them in my reads til it became obvious.
Last said he was with me and shin. I just added kj for completeness.
Shin>last>kj
1 scum in the 3>0 scum>2 scum
You may include me in this how you will
For the record, I've got my other faction as slightly less likely than rand to contain scum. By both win condition and flavor, though i dont know how much stock to put in either of those tbh
No further info given
Can I ask on you about your stats. Are you assuming their is scum in the faction because your scum reading me? Unless your just assumng based on logic and player counter that their is a high chance of mafia on our faction.
I'm just gonna go ahead and throw it out there, but I wouldn't be opposed to taking the throne. I don't expect to actually win it, so I haven't bothered campaigning just yet.
It does play to one of my wincons, so.
I think I'm toeing the edge of leaving my current scumrange, but other people can fact-check me on that.
I'm just gonna go ahead and throw it out there, but I wouldn't be opposed to taking the throne. I don't expect to actually win it, so I haven't bothered campaigning just yet.
It does play to one of my wincons, so.
I think I'm toeing the edge of leaving my current scumrange, but other people can fact-check me on that.
I'll gladly vote for you, i was gonna vote for DV but not anymore.
@DV
I cant think right now, do what you want with Shin's slot, I got other stuff to focus on
Wisp.
You said you thought this through already.
This should take you three seconds to type out if you took the time to go back and think about what chris said and then worked it through.
no cause I still don't see it, leave me alone
my ******* gut tells me this is town!shin, as well as the game state... but I can't ignore the abnormalities in his posts or the lack of votes
@DV
I cant think right now, do what you want with Shin's slot, I got other stuff to focus on
Wisp.
You said you thought this through already.
This should take you three seconds to type out if you took the time to go back and think about what chris said and then worked it through.
no cause I still don't see it, leave me alone
my ******* gut tells me this is town!shin, as well as the game state... but I can't ignore the abnormalities in his posts or the lack of votes
Explain how this makes sense.
I am Town reading you. I see you town reading someone else. So, I scum read that person, on the sole logic of you Town reading that person
I'm asking you to do this.
You keep saying this makes sense.
I'm asking you how. Ignore Shin, Tell me how this makes sense.
Tell me how TWTBAW is a fallacy, You also claimed that.
@DV
I cant think right now, do what you want with Shin's slot, I got other stuff to focus on
Wisp.
You said you thought this through already.
This should take you three seconds to type out if you took the time to go back and think about what chris said and then worked it through.
no cause I still don't see it, leave me alone
my ******* gut tells me this is town!shin, as well as the game state... but I can't ignore the abnormalities in his posts or the lack of votes
Explain how this makes sense.
I am Town reading you. I see you town reading someone else. So, I scum read that person, on the sole logic of you Town reading that person
I'm asking you to do this.
You keep saying this makes sense.
I'm asking you how. Ignore Shin, Tell me how this makes sense.
Tell me how TWTBAW is a fallacy, You also claimed that.
Let me clear something up, you realize I scum read red for actual reasons not just cause Kyle town reads him lol. I found it weird nonetheless because Kyle as first wasnt reevaluating the slot. I can explain whatever you want about any my posts, but for some reason you wont ask me too.
@DV
I cant think right now, do what you want with Shin's slot, I got other stuff to focus on
Wisp.
You said you thought this through already.
This should take you three seconds to type out if you took the time to go back and think about what chris said and then worked it through.
no cause I still don't see it, leave me alone
my ******* gut tells me this is town!shin, as well as the game state... but I can't ignore the abnormalities in his posts or the lack of votes
Explain how this makes sense.
I am Town reading you. I see you town reading someone else. So, I scum read that person, on the sole logic of you Town reading that person
I'm asking you to do this.
You keep saying this makes sense.
I'm asking you how. Ignore Shin, Tell me how this makes sense.
Tell me how TWTBAW is a fallacy, You also claimed that.
Let me clear something up, you realize I scum read red for actual reasons not just cause Kyle town reads him lol. I found it weird nonetheless because Kyle as first wasnt reevaluating the slot. I can explain whatever you want about any my posts, but for some reason you wont ask me too.
Answer the questions.
I'm not asking you about your reads.
You claim TWTBAW is a fallacy back it up.
Explain how this logic "I am Town reading you. I see you town reading someone else. So, I scum read that person, on the sole logic of you Town reading that person"
Makes sense.
That's what I'm asking. Stop making it about something else.
Well 1 idk what TWTBAW stands for. Also I cant really argue with how its handled in normal situations but that's not how I was looking at it when I said it. I also dont care how its suppose to be deduced in a normal situation lol. I town read Kyle but I did not like his read on Rodemy. So there even though I was town reading my brother I was also scum reading one of his town reads.
If that doesnt satisfy you then not much else that can be done is there.
DV why are you even having this argument in light of not expecting logic from either last or shin?
Slightly insulting, I would rather not have people told not to interact with me tyvm. You may think I am caught scum but alas I am not caught nor am I scum.
DV why are you even having this argument in light of not expecting logic from either last or shin?
Slightly insulting, I would rather not have people told not to interact with me tyvm. You may think I am caught scum but alas I am not caught nor am I scum.
i mean, it's not not insulting
But dv said not to expect either of you to pay attention to logic, and is hounding last to pay attention to your logic feel that's a pretty valid question
DV why are you even having this argument in light of not expecting logic from either last or shin?
100% Right.
I'm fighting last because he threw words at the screen. Calling TWTBAW a "Fallacy" just sounds to me like he picked the biggest word he knew, and applied it without IDK actually thinking.
You're right though. I'm just annoyed because Wisp said "I don't get it let me think on it" Comes back, says "Naw NVM", then when I ask him to explain he says "I can't lol", but if he thought about he has to be able to. So, he's just lying. UGHHGH
Also, I challenge anyone to post a read on Rodemy that Shinichi has posted that doesn't have anything to do with lasts read. Fun fact. You can't do it, because I checked.
DV why are you even having this argument in light of not expecting logic from either last or shin?
Slightly insulting, I would rather not have people told not to interact with me tyvm. You may think I am caught scum but alas I am not caught nor am I scum.
i mean, it's not not insulting
But dv said not to expect either of you to pay attention to logic, and is hounding last to pay attention to your logic feel that's a pretty valid question
I mean is that not insulting? I am confused? I pay attention to logic but this logic is trying to prove I am scum and I am trying to refute that logic is all.
DV why are you even having this argument in light of not expecting logic from either last or shin?
Slightly insulting, I would rather not have people told not to interact with me tyvm. You may think I am caught scum but alas I am not caught nor am I scum.
i mean, it's not not insulting
But dv said not to expect either of you to pay attention to logic, and is hounding last to pay attention to your logic feel that's a pretty valid question
I mean is that not insulting? I am confused? I pay attention to logic but this logic is trying to prove I am scum and I am trying to refute that logic is all.
sorry, what's your point?
I asked dv why hes doing something based on his stated opinions
DV why are you even having this argument in light of not expecting logic from either last or shin?
Slightly insulting, I would rather not have people told not to interact with me tyvm. You may think I am caught scum but alas I am not caught nor am I scum.
i mean, it's not not insulting
But dv said not to expect either of you to pay attention to logic, and is hounding last to pay attention to your logic feel that's a pretty valid question
I mean is that not insulting? I am confused? I pay attention to logic but this logic is trying to prove I am scum and I am trying to refute that logic is all.
sorry, what's your point?
I asked dv why hes doing something based on his stated opinions
Ehh I guess I have no point then, I'll just leave your 2 egos to squabble about being right.
Honestly, if there's a neutral in the game, it's probably Rhand.
Faction of one smells.
That can change if there are other loners, or if DV's telling the truth about the recruitment power. Shifting wincons seems to be toeing the line, imo.
ehh where this that neutral read cocme from? Also knowing kyle he could easily be with any of those players because he has quite the experience with DV and RE. Plus based on his recent game with Rod it be easy to fake an interaction with him to distance themselves.
get out of this tunnel, you can make an amazing case and be wrong, but its ok, its ok to be wrong, so dont fret, one day you'll learn how to play the game based on things that aren't meta, or using other games to have any semblance of skill
I am confused at this statement cause your read on rod is also meta cause your basing off of his entrance being different than a scum game.
@Shinichi
alot of walls but who exactly is pinging you? did you say anyone could be mafia outside me?
Based on me catching up
[color=green]
Vaimes
DV
tom
DV
LW[/color]
[color=yellow]
KA
rhand
cobalt
1053
hunger
[/color]
[color=red]
Cantrip
HR
Rod
Sir Chris[/color
Ill go into detail later but this is what i got so far, honestly the ROD read is just because i don't think hes done enough tobe locked town for me so i find it supcest your still trying to read him as town.
I still believe DV should be a town read and you should be reading HR as scum it makes no sense for you to think hes town when he seems so sure your scum. You should be pushing a world where hes scum instead of trying to make him look more town. His meta reads hold as much weight as your read on rodemy which means it holds very little. I disagree that pushing a large case on someone makes them scum becauses its no different than you cosantly pushing that rodemy is town why cant you see that?
Rodemy has one more strike, he already has two, one more and he's going into my scum pile, while I cry for being so wrong
Glad to see your actually evaluating the slot instead of mindlessly town reading rod. Fact that you're not continuing to just argue and push it kinda worries me though. Normally your quite headstrong when it comes to your reads.
What posts in general by rod have weakened your read?
If anything it just means wisp is scum with ROD, I don't find it that contradictory. Unless your somehow your certain ROD will flip scum which then I would have to ask how you have aquired that information.
For now Rod is scum and Wisp is town. You can read into whatever you want about that post, but that is my read.
Rodemy entrance was him being a fan of GOT nothing more nothing less, I don't know why people keep bringing that up as if its suppose to mean something. He didnt need to be anything, he was energetic because he loves GOT. I would react the same way epending on the flavor. Its funny hearing that because i scum read them both so i am curious to know why you have them tied together.
As you can see the last time is the only time he ever remotely gets close to giving a reason for scum reading Rodemy.
All of the rest of the posts he literally says to wisp “You’re wrong Rod is scum” Why??? I’m not a mind reader, and Shinichi sure as hell doesn’t give any reasons.
Then he says hes scum reading Rodemy because Wisp is town reading him.
I’m really at a loss. The read is backed up by nothing, he’s right on the fact that Rod shouldn’t be town read based on the whole bubbly attitude thing, I agree. But, he’s not scum because of that. He’s just neutral. And, Shinichi seems hellbent on making Rodemy a scum read. Its illogical. Its backed by no evidence, and no logic.
@DV
I believe in Occam's razor, and even in DiTF I didn't want to use it on Kami, if something smells like fish, its probably just a fish, and you can find better reasons to call someone town that isn't just WIFOM.
I'm trying to write a 10-page paper right now, so give me a break, or just lynch me today, I'll be consistently busy throughout the week.
Grape, on the one hand, I like your 90. But on the other hand, after that you post quite a bit of fluff until 178, which I like for the initial defusing attempt, but don't like for you saying Rhand and Vaimes being town is a "fact". But then I like the final question, which is very much a defusing attempt and more likely imo to come from town than scum. I think your treatment of the LnG factionless claim was scummy, and several of your posts have seemed cautious/crafted. Why are you studiously avoiding commenting on Wisp?
I don't think I have been avoiding commenting on Wisp? In fact I think I was discussing Wisp quite a bit. Not in terms of strictly reading him but a large portion of my comments were interacting with Wisp.
@RE what makes adding a vote to expressed skepticism scummy? Also your previously justified reasoning didn't mention voting.
@RE considering that you made one of the two pushes with me (LnG) you probably don't need to spend too much time deciding if it could come from town.
In honor of RSJT I kinda want to call that a slip and go ham with it but it's very obviously not one.
Considering my push of him and your push of him were made differently, and that you showed significantly less skepticism that his claim may have not been AI, and all together I barely pushed him and some of my reasoning for being wary of him was different from yours, I don't think us pushing the same person around the same time is very comparable.
Was it not clear that what I meant when I said I'd need to see if your pushes could come from town, I'd be taking how the push was made into account as well?
To go from that as the reason to when I show you the reasoning just saying: "You voted him for it. I did not. That's the difference, and a big one." doesn't add up to me. Vote: RE
On the LW/Shinichi debate that has taken over the thread. Wisp not understanding the catch and at one point seeming to call it meta is NAI. It's a thing that should be AI and would be for most players but it's not for him. Shin I'm not sure on. At various times it looks like he's using it to explain his LW read despite it being written in a way that's obviously a Rod read. I unfortunately think this whole thing might be a case of sloppiness. That said LW's reaction to suspicion over this and evasion feels wrong and I'm going to dive back in.
@Shin just a gentle reminder but this forum has multiposting rules. You're not allowed to make more than 3 posts in a row unbroken without significant time passing.
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh theres the post that chris is talking about........................................
Quote from shin »
still believe DV should be a town read and you should be reading HR as scum it makes no sense for you to think hes town when he seems so sure your scum. You should be pushing a world where hes scum instead of trying to make him look more town.
ya, this reeks of a narrative, get out of here bro? Im quite I already commented on this, but I couldn't find the post
vote: Shinichi
@DV
First of all, in my attempt to find this post, I kept thinking it was about Rodemy... I was ctrl +f'ing "Rodemy" in his ISO... to find this
So this is the context for the initial quote. With the preamble it's obvious to me he's talking about LW's reads more than explaining his own. I'm not making a value judgment on the reads, just saying by the posts flow it's clear he's debating reads with Wisp more than using Wisp to explain other reads.
I still believe DV should be a town read and you should be reading HR as scum it makes no sense for you to think hes town when he seems so sure your scum. You should be pushing a world where hes scum instead of trying to make him look more town. His meta reads hold as much weight as your read on rodemy which means it holds very little. I disagree that pushing a large case on someone makes them scum becauses its no different than you cosantly pushing that rodemy is town why cant you see that?
*snip*For example, you've managed to totally ignore the whole Chris tell. You're going to have to work that one through for me, or at least yourself at some point.
Im suppose to see a tell that in every definition of the word tell, is subjective, to the person stating it, and honestly, I could care less about these meta tells, stop trying to aggravate me with your mindless shade like you are some mafia genius, it makes me not want to play anymore. This is the same dribble I met with in my first games here... and I will not have it here again, not after constantly trying my best to improve
we are about to do the same ***** we do in every game with Shin, lynch him because hes "cannon fodder", whether he flips mafia or town, it's still the same old news and I'm over it
This feels like white knighting to me. Wisp is so confident in Shin's alignment defending him here despite at various times pushing Shin himself. Maybe it's a brother thing (Only I get to pick on my bro) but it looks like he's trying to keep his push up while discrediting other people doing the same. There is also the confusion and lack of curiosity that feels slightly scummish to me. LW very obviously hasn't understood what Chris has been pointing to, calling it a meta read, and is lacking any curiosity to figure it out. And continues doing so until just a minute ago when he reopened his push on Shin.
As for wwhatever you have to say on sir chris, remind you i've never played with him so if your gonna give me some bs reason as to why he whatever alignment he is this game I don't wanna hear nor do i care about someone else meta read on a player. As of right now he hasnt done much for me to say hey this guy is town there he is scum. Also your logic on LW makes no sense because this entire time i've been trying to explain to my brother that his read on roemy is wrong and that the slot is more likely scum so why would I have wisp as scum and rod as town. It doesn't make sense it be a huge contradiction and over sight on my part.
Also your wrong because I contradict myself a lot because I have a poor memory, my alignment would not affect that whatsoever.
I think your reading too much into my rainbow read list that was just something i made in like 10 minutes with very weak reasoning.
You haven't played with me enough to be able to stand by this read your bolstering about it.
So this is one of Shin's attempts to reply to Chris' push. And he seems to not fully understand the push, but I think his reply makes it obvious that he believes the issue is his read on LW. Shin is scatterbrained but he's not stupid.
If anything it just means wisp is scum with ROD, I don't find it that contradictory. Unless your somehow your certain ROD will flip scum which then I would have to ask how you have aquired that information.
For now Rod is scum and Wisp is town. You can read into whatever you want about that post, but that is my read.
And here is a similar reply to DV. He's still not explaining his Rod read, but it's clear that he doesn't grasp why he's being pushed and doesn't base his read on Rod on Wisp's read on Rod.
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i did
I dont see how it doesnt make sense?
Its fine to have mental health problems, but please refrain from making posts about it. Outside of the game, I care about the health of everyone, but in game I will not have someone tell me they're sick so I should treat them differently. Sorry, but not sorry.
I respect the problems that every indivudal faces but this is a game where I wont have ruined because people are upset or stressed.
First off, not sure what to make of the LW/Shin interaction. At first I thought LW was scummy for switching from being initially laidback/humorous in the thread to very aggressive and back. Seemed way over the top. But now I think maybe he's just temperamental. Shin's also all over the place. But they're actually actively engaged and interacting with people, so maybe hold off on killing them day 1--especially if Shin's always lynched day 1 (not sure if that's true like LW said, but if it is that sucks). It seems like one or both of them will be lynched before the end regardless so not in a huge hurry this second when they can potentially give us more info and easily be lynched later.
Rodemy had a super energetic entrance followed by...nothing. Seemed scummy to me. Like he knew up front he needed to be energetic but then wasn't actually excited and couldn't keep it going. Also, Rod/Chris are likely part of the same faction if not w/w since they have both been what I read as overly mutually supportive--suspect alt win condition.
Tom and his two factions. He has completely thrown one faction under the bus, while not revealing any info about his second faction as I understand it. 3 likely options:
1) He genuinely thinks the faction he threw under the bus has 1+ scum. In the case that he only thought there was 1 scum, I would argue he should have just targeted the player he thinks is scum instead of giving up the whole faction
2) He thinks he can better achieve one of his altwin conditions by throwing this specific faction under the bus. Seems more likely. Theon, are you there?
3) He's scum, knows that there is no scum in this faction, but also knows that LW, Shin, and KJ have all been critically analyzed and jumps at the opportunity of grouping them together and saying there's 1+ scum. By outing them as a faction maybe he hoped to take the heat off himself. In any case, with 19 players I'm assuming that there are at least 5 mafia, which means that Tom telling us that there is at least 1 mafia in his faction of 4 is just statistically probable and could pretty much be said about any random grouping of 4
D_V: Iron Bank sounds legitimate. Leaning towards too bold to fake. NAI though. It would be really interesting having a mafia iron bank because they'd naturally be in a position to stay alive if people thought of them as a neutral party/useful resource, but again no read on him right now to make me lean one way or the other. Not sure why D-V hardcore claimed LW is not scum and said he wouldn't discuss further #561. Putting that hard line down doesn't actually do much in the way of protecting LW and with how everyone talks about "town confidence" could just be scum imitating that. Ironically, if we find out LW is scum, that would probably clear DV to me because don't think he would risk the double bluff.
Highroller: already commented on one of his interactions with LW that seemed reasonable/town, but didn't pick up anything new recently to make me lean one way or the other.
Hunger's point about the dual-edged sword of Sir Chris nomination makes sense #354 and Rod/Chris never responded as far as I know. Hasn't done much since. Weak townlean.
I need to review all of Grape's stuff so not going to comment on that now.
What an incredibly unhelpful post!
No, seriously, what is the reason for the Grapefruit wagon? You, for example, jumped on it with no explanation.
Regarding the Iron Throne: If the mafia have daychat, that means one of them is likely to start out with 4 votes just right off the bat. Even without daychat, we are still very likely to be at a disadvantage from the get-go. A mafia on the throne would be bad news for any town. We should work to avoid that.
Personally, I think the vote would best go to either Vaimes or myself. Vaimes because I agree that we're dealing with TownVaimes, and myself because I think pretty much everyone who's played with me in a previous game has said, "Yeah, Highroller's in keeping with his past behavior."
Explain how it makes sense then.
Wisp.
Do you understand what we are saying? Please write out what we are saying.
Explain how this makes sense.
I am Town reading you. I see you town reading someone else. So, I scum read that person, on the sole logic of you Town reading that person.
What the ****.
He's saying he is busy and he isn't going to post much.
**** off. How dare you.
Last said he was with me and shin. I just added kj for completeness.
Shin>last>kj
1 scum in the 3>0 scum>2 scum
You may include me in this how you will
For the record, I've got my other faction as slightly less likely than rand to contain scum. By both win condition and flavor, though i dont know how much stock to put in either of those tbh
No further info given
Mafia breeds aggression there really is no way to avoid it when playing the game, just don't let the game play you :D. Even if you don't want to involve yourself with any of the squabbles its still good hearing what you have to say. Nothing to really take from the interaction because we're both town despite what others say. Atleast I know i am town and I can say i accurately read him since hes my brother. I can also be tempermental if pushed hard enough :evil:, I don't care who wants to lynch me. My problem is I don't take kindly to being down played as just a mislynch because town is so bad at scum hunting on d1 they rather ice me than actual scum. As for the always lynched d1 yes it holds a lot of weight to it. Most of the cases are similar to this game where ill make a small or a few condtradiction then i get eaten alive. Trust me, I won't be lynched not now not never ;).
Rodemy entrance was him being a fan of GOT nothing more nothing less, I don't know why people keep bringing that up as if its suppose to mean something. He didnt need to be anything, he was energetic because he loves GOT. I would react the same way epending on the flavor. Its funny hearing that because i scum read them both so i am curious to know why you have them tied together.
Tom and his beautiful little factions, I ain't sure what kind of game he is playing here. I am just very curious as to why he is so certain only 1 has to scum it and not the other. Then again I'm assuming the person he scum reads in one of his factions is none only that the greatest player ever Shin-chan :D. Im assuming the faction he wants to win with would be the one I ain't in which if scum is on that it could hurt the town. Then again he could just be scum protecting the faction that has more of his buddies. So, for the most part, I like this post and I will have to agree with you on much of what you say about tom, though not sure yet of which alignment or should I say the situation is more likely to be happening.
I won't say much on DV because he is 3rd part that doesn't seem to pose a threat too town as of yet, and I care very little for hitting at 3rd party when mafia exist who can slowly burn us to death. As for what your saying about the double bluff its more than likely to be something that both my brother and dv could play at if they were scum together.
Hr has very strong viewpoints which i refuse to follow till he gets his head out of the gutter.
I cant think right now, do what you want with Shin's slot, I got other stuff to focus on
I'm not reading him based off that though, I have never once said hes posting very little so he has to be scum. I'm scum reading him based on what hes already posted, all i did was clarify that him being busy wouldnt effect my read on him or change it anyway. So please don't play me as heartless. I play the game without emotion but I care about everyone outside of this game. Don't you dare tell me to **** off because i refuse be told to back off of a player because they're busy.
Can I ask on you about your stats. Are you assuming their is scum in the faction because your scum reading me? Unless your just assumng based on logic and player counter that their is a high chance of mafia on our faction.
It does play to one of my wincons, so.
I think I'm toeing the edge of leaving my current scumrange, but other people can fact-check me on that.
I'll gladly vote for you, i was gonna vote for DV but not anymore.
lumpiron throne.1053/vaimes
lngrr/hr
tubba/kami
shin/Last/grape/chris
Such as they are
That's pretty understandable and logically it makes sense.
What are the colored names for?
Wisp.
You said you thought this through already.
This should take you three seconds to type out if you took the time to go back and think about what chris said and then worked it through.
my ******* gut tells me this is town!shin, as well as the game state... but I can't ignore the abnormalities in his posts or the lack of votes
Explain how this makes sense.
I am Town reading you. I see you town reading someone else. So, I scum read that person, on the sole logic of you Town reading that person
I'm asking you to do this.
You keep saying this makes sense.
I'm asking you how. Ignore Shin, Tell me how this makes sense.
Tell me how TWTBAW is a fallacy, You also claimed that.
Let me clear something up, you realize I scum read red for actual reasons not just cause Kyle town reads him lol. I found it weird nonetheless because Kyle as first wasnt reevaluating the slot. I can explain whatever you want about any my posts, but for some reason you wont ask me too.
Answer the questions.
I'm not asking you about your reads.
You claim TWTBAW is a fallacy back it up.
Explain how this logic "I am Town reading you. I see you town reading someone else. So, I scum read that person, on the sole logic of you Town reading that person"
Makes sense.
That's what I'm asking. Stop making it about something else.
I'm at my wits end.
If that doesnt satisfy you then not much else that can be done is there.
Interesting not sure how you managed to do that. Clearly your judgment has been clouded.
Blue is strong town
Red is strong scum
Between in rainbow order, with cool colors being townreads and warm colors scumreads
Slightly insulting, I would rather not have people told not to interact with me tyvm. You may think I am caught scum but alas I am not caught nor am I scum.
But dv said not to expect either of you to pay attention to logic, and is hounding last to pay attention to your logic feel that's a pretty valid question
Was making sure it was a read list my bad lol.
100% Right.
I'm fighting last because he threw words at the screen. Calling TWTBAW a "Fallacy" just sounds to me like he picked the biggest word he knew, and applied it without IDK actually thinking.
You're right though. I'm just annoyed because Wisp said "I don't get it let me think on it" Comes back, says "Naw NVM", then when I ask him to explain he says "I can't lol", but if he thought about he has to be able to. So, he's just lying. UGHHGH
Also, I challenge anyone to post a read on Rodemy that Shinichi has posted that doesn't have anything to do with lasts read. Fun fact. You can't do it, because I checked.
I mean is that not insulting? I am confused? I pay attention to logic but this logic is trying to prove I am scum and I am trying to refute that logic is all.
I asked dv why hes doing something based on his stated opinions
Ehh I guess I have no point then, I'll just leave your 2 egos to squabble about being right.
Thoughts so far on last basically.
Have him in my scumreads
Think it's unlikely w/w based on faction and if last is scum his shin read looks a bit TMI to me
Would pretty happily kill either. If we hit scum the others prolly town
I’ve put them in order.
As you can see the last time is the only time he ever remotely gets close to giving a reason for scum reading Rodemy.
All of the rest of the posts he literally says to wisp “You’re wrong Rod is scum” Why??? I’m not a mind reader, and Shinichi sure as hell doesn’t give any reasons.
Then he says hes scum reading Rodemy because Wisp is town reading him.
I’m really at a loss. The read is backed up by nothing, he’s right on the fact that Rod shouldn’t be town read based on the whole bubbly attitude thing, I agree. But, he’s not scum because of that. He’s just neutral. And, Shinichi seems hellbent on making Rodemy a scum read. Its illogical. Its backed by no evidence, and no logic.
I can buy that. I'd rather do Shinichi by a mile though.
Why?
I believe in Occam's razor, and even in DiTF I didn't want to use it on Kami, if something smells like fish, its probably just a fish, and you can find better reasons to call someone town that isn't just WIFOM.
I'm trying to write a 10-page paper right now, so give me a break, or just lynch me today, I'll be consistently busy throughout the week.
I don't think I have been avoiding commenting on Wisp? In fact I think I was discussing Wisp quite a bit. Not in terms of strictly reading him but a large portion of my comments were interacting with Wisp.
@RE what makes adding a vote to expressed skepticism scummy? Also your previously justified reasoning didn't mention voting. To go from that as the reason to when I show you the reasoning just saying: "You voted him for it. I did not. That's the difference, and a big one." doesn't add up to me. Vote: RE
On the LW/Shinichi debate that has taken over the thread. Wisp not understanding the catch and at one point seeming to call it meta is NAI. It's a thing that should be AI and would be for most players but it's not for him. Shin I'm not sure on. At various times it looks like he's using it to explain his LW read despite it being written in a way that's obviously a Rod read. I unfortunately think this whole thing might be a case of sloppiness. That said LW's reaction to suspicion over this and evasion feels wrong and I'm going to dive back in.
@Shin just a gentle reminder but this forum has multiposting rules. You're not allowed to make more than 3 posts in a row unbroken without significant time passing.
#LumpForVaimes #PandaJustice
ya, this reeks of a narrative, get out of here bro? Im quite I already commented on this, but I couldn't find the post
vote: Shinichi
@DV
First of all, in my attempt to find this post, I kept thinking it was about Rodemy... I was ctrl +f'ing "Rodemy" in his ISO... to find this
Get that grade.
\\\\\\
We should maybe elect two people?
IE split our votes so if the the first one gets NK'd it isn't someone random? Or scum controlled?
Throne Elections?
Instead of just one person that the town tries to elect we try and elect two? Split our votes in an agreed way?
IDK. Sounds like work though.
This feels like white knighting to me. Wisp is so confident in Shin's alignment defending him here despite at various times pushing Shin himself. Maybe it's a brother thing (Only I get to pick on my bro) but it looks like he's trying to keep his push up while discrediting other people doing the same. There is also the confusion and lack of curiosity that feels slightly scummish to me. LW very obviously hasn't understood what Chris has been pointing to, calling it a meta read, and is lacking any curiosity to figure it out. And continues doing so until just a minute ago when he reopened his push on Shin.
So this is one of Shin's attempts to reply to Chris' push. And he seems to not fully understand the push, but I think his reply makes it obvious that he believes the issue is his read on LW. Shin is scatterbrained but he's not stupid.
And here is a similar reply to DV. He's still not explaining his Rod read, but it's clear that he doesn't grasp why he's being pushed and doesn't base his read on Rod on Wisp's read on Rod.