gf's airbnb turned out not to be owned by the person we were dealing with, oh boy.
@ me if you want to discuss something, but don't expect much!
Private Mod Note
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2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
It would be one thing if I literally just wrote "Coballt is frozen," the end. But I threw it in with a readslist because I'm not so stupid that I wouldn't expect a bunch of "why do you have Coballt in reeeeeeeeeed, Vaimes?"
So what I've read so far is my faction has been revealed thanks to my brother, not sure why he would do that when its possible another factions win con could be trying to get ours killed -.-
Vote Shinichi
Your last post was 218. You say you'll reply when you can, then one minute later jump forward to 542 (or 575) and proceed to attack Wisp. Even if you've been keeping up on reading but not posting, this is a hella wolfy pop-in. Either you've been lurking and wanted to get that dig in as soon as possible, or you're seeing the scum daychat thread.
So what I've read so far is my faction has been revealed thanks to my brother, not sure why he would do that when its possible another factions win con could be trying to get ours killed -.-
Vote Shinichi
Your last post was 218. You say you'll reply when you can, then one minute later jump forward to 542 (or 575) and proceed to attack Wisp. Even if you've been keeping up on reading but not posting, this is a hella wolfy pop-in. Either you've been lurking and wanted to get that dig in as soon as possible, or you're seeing the scum daychat thread.
I just read down page 12 and saw someone comment on knowing my faction is all. I don't know how your reading that as me lurking, if I wanted to get a dig on anyone I would do it. At the time the 12th page was the knewest so i skimmed down that and then replied based on something that interested me.
Shin is already lock scum for me, it would take some miracle for me to change my opinion, it's a combination of meta as well as his earlier posts, and now his latter posts which show posting just for the sake of posting
Normally shin is obvious Lynch bait, but I don't see it here
Shin is already lock scum for me, it would take some miracle for me to change my opinion, it's a combination of meta as well as his earlier posts, and now his latter posts which show posting just for the sake of posting
Normally shin is obvious Lynch bait, but I don't see it here
i made a totally of what 10 posts? I am curious to where the lock scum read comes from?
get out of this tunnel, you can make an amazing case and be wrong, but its ok, its ok to be wrong, so dont fret, one day you'll learn how to play the game based on things that aren't meta, or using other games to have any semblance of skill
I am confused at this statement cause your read on rod is also meta cause your basing off of his entrance being different than a scum game.
LastWhisper, you came in trying to claim that you have some sort of super accuracy, as you saw Rodemy as mafia when no one else did on Day 1 in his initial posts.
I countered saying that I doubted this alleged superhuman mafia ability, because your record doesn’t match your rhetoric. It’s true that you did vote Rodemy. It’s also true that you cast suspicion on no less than 10 others based on their initial posts, and you even set aside your case on Rodemy to go after Grapefruit21, who was town. This is not the accuracy you claim to have, and any objective person would question any claim that Death in the Family mafia is evidence of such.
So now you’re taking umbrage, and making personal attacks on me, saying I suck at mafia. Except:
1. That’s totally irrelevant, because even if I were the worst mafia player that is humanly possible to be, it still doesn't give you superaccuracy.
2. That’s totally uncalled for. I've never made a personal attack against you at any point this game.
3. It actually makes you look like mafia, because you’re being super overdefensive against me, when in Death in the Family mafia, in which you were town, you had a whole bandwagon against you, and you never resorted to personal attacks, nor got particularly defensive about it.
Again, that’s an example of a game in which you were town and had an entire bandwagon against you. In that game you were measured, calm, took things in stride.
Here you have one person challenging your credibility, and you’re getting super bent out of shape about it? That is a significant difference in reaction.
This stance from HR just screams town, mostly based on he handled the interaction with wisp. I don't particularly agree with any of this because again it seems like your also just trying to use meta to prove this makes wisp scum when in general the way he is playing as of right now should make him town. No way you can tell me that wisp is scum right now.
well I take offense to people doubting my ability to play mafia
As I said before:
I'm casting doubt as to your alleged ability to read peoples' entrances.
Don't take it personally, if anyone else had made the same claim, I would cast the same doubt. Grand Admiral Thrawn-level reading ability just doesn't exist. It's not a thing.
what are you even mad about? I don't get it? because I throw out reads with a lack of reasoning? or that I have confidence in my reads with lack thereof?
@Chris
I was escorted out once... it was a dark time
You should have 0 confidence in that read because the stats don't line up. Your read is based off 1 game, maybe your just tunneling rodemy with a town read when he isn't. I would rather you come to the udnerstanding of that instead of lock clearing him off of a silly entrance.
This is an unproductive discussion. HR has real reasons based on meta to scum read Wisp. I disagree with him and think Wisp is basically at the rand point. Wisp in asserting those reasons are wrong is sucking literally all the air out of the thread and away from real content like the fact that Rhand and Vaimes are town. To my latest reread Wisp isn't even making an alignment argument about HR.
Wisp ignoring HR what do you make of Shin, Rhand, and DV. And can you answer my question about RE from earlier?
If thats the case based the wisp town HR scum? Vaimes has always been scum in lke most of the games iveplayed with him, its scary to think he may have actually rolled town.
Oof. So my main PC died two days ago and I'm waiting on replacement parts. I can still do laptop and phone posting, but my content will likely be lesser until I get everything fixed up. Apologies in advance. On the same note, I'm V/LA this weekend, but will try to check in on Friday and Sunday.
With that out of the way:
I hereby announce my claim to the Iron Throne. I shall be a fair and just ruler, and will weigh the advice of the citizens and lords in shaping the policy of the land.
Highroller strikes me as earnest; though truth be told, I have not yet seen an evil Highroller. Nevertheless I have no reason to doubt him.
Sir Chris has, in the past, proven his worth in valiant combat against disguised foes - though he was struck down in the end. Will this be a chance to redeem himself? Or is he now corrupt, and bearing his past honor as a facade? He would be a mighty ally if true, or a dangerous foe if false. I will say that this is not the Day to judge him, for only by the outcomes of his actions can we know him.
You coming out and announceing you want the throne doesn't feel like its something scum would do in this situation. They would not want to give themselves that light as scum. For now you are town, but who knows how long that will last
I just read down page 12 and saw someone comment on knowing my faction is all. I don't know how your reading that as me lurking, if I wanted to get a dig on anyone I would do it. At the time the 12th page was the knewest so i skimmed down that and then replied based on something that interested me.
Which I'd be a lot more ok with if you were posting something of value, but the entirety of your post was to shade Wisp. As Wisp indicated, you're not posting to contribute; you'r posting to post. Additionally, leaping to the closest thing you find shiny and attacking someone for it means that you don't care about context or what led up to Wisp outing your faction; you just saw an opportunity to attack Wisp.
Just to give an example - there's a reason I'm more curious for Wisp's reasoning in scumreading Shinichi over tom.
So I'd say my questions are chosen carefully, so I can maximize efficiency in receiving AI answers? Something like that.
I don't find it too odd, tom scum reads me quite alot so i doubt wisp would read into that overrall nothing tom has said before this post has been scummy Ive been wrong about tom alot though so who knows.
Re is giving me a bit of "deer in headlights" vibe.
I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. Could you elaborate? Maybe point out a post that gave you that impression and explain the analogy to me.
I'm awfully curious about this one. And I disagree with your Shinichi read. Relying solely on meta, this is his town game. I'm looking at the complexity of his commentary as well as the strong terminology used.
As for my own read and vote on Grape - two things pinged me. His awkward entrance (first post), and his read on Vaimes which struck me as far too confident. The confidence pinging me also because it shadows your read on Rodemy. As if testing boundaries, since confidence tends to be read as town.
Just as much as I hate the scum read i hate how it seeems like your trying to get me to sheep you. I don't think either one of you should be putting an alignment on me based on the few posts I have made before this post i am quoting. He can hold onto that read the entire game but doesnt mean its true what so ever.
I disagree with your Shinichi read. Relying solely on meta, this is his town game. I'm looking at the complexity of his commentary as well as the strong terminology used.
tell me about this complexity
Complexity in that he's not just fluffing around to boost his post count, and his stances are clear-cut and not wavering because he's scum unwillingly to take a hard stance (again, meta). He's dived straight to the point (several of them, really) without needing to ease himself into the game comfortably with shallow posting.
Nvm I like you now, its def clear your post isnt frail. You were able to back up your town read on me really well and for that I will give you a town read.
Shin believes DV is neutral then got the rules wrong while also saying he thought DV was the best check and would flip town.
His other stances were "no don't townread vaimes" and... ?
Last time vaimes town read me he was scum, and DV is neutral my understanding at the time was I could use the iron throne to reaveal dv alignment so i wouldnt have to deal with reading him later in the game is all.
Who suggested a mass claim? Consider my vote on them.
That’s not townplay at all
No one did, if I recall correctly. In response to Highroller's theory that the mafia were the Whitewalkers, I suggested that a mass claim (well, a mass flavor claim, really) would out them. But it was a hypothetical situation - I think it's more likely mafia are just randomized between the characters (though HR's theory on mafia being the raised dead is fair as well).
It would also make sense, in terms of flavor. The houses needed to unite in order to stand a chance against the Whitewalkers, so getting tied up in achieving the alternate wincons could be detrimental to town (weakens them against the Whitewalkers).
Rhand also suggested that we'd need to claim alternate win cons eventually. Which seems reasonable, though I don't see how helpful it'd be for town, other than explaining odd behavior.
No reason to put information out there that could cause town to divide, i would rather just lynch someone who is scum than have to worry about someone being pushed as scum just to bring forth a second agenda because they wanted that faction murdered.
@highroller
Why are so keened to talk about alt win-cons? Seems like a lot of words for nothing, alternative win cons are not an incentive to go against your main win-con.
What do you think of shinichi?
@rodemy
That's a level-0 opinion, and is bound to hit a false positive when there are deeper reasons to see someone as scum
@RE
I agree with KJ in the fact that you seemed lost in your initial posts, your latter posts are better, but nothing too townie
@shinichi
All my reads have meaning, I invite discussion, I don't make posts for nothing outside of a few that are fluffy or answering pointless questions. Why is one of your earlier thoughts the possibility of me setting up for bussing, when we both know that's not ideal play?
When have you ever done things because its ideal, your capable of setting yourself up for late game.
Can anyone who's not RE confirm what RE said about her (i think) playstyle?
Either way, Unvote to look for other suspects.
Highroller I'm pretty sure if you start throwing the game at any point to ruin the fun for everyone else, you're getting instantly blacklisted... even if you've already won.
Grape Talk to me about your reads. What's Wisp looking like to you? Also Shinichi.
Vote Shinichi You keep walling and it's giving me feelings.
I don’t see it, can you elaborate?
I don’t like the town clears without much to back them up but it’s meh-shrug to me.
He speaks too quickly and certainly of LW and HR not being aligned; and if he believes them unaligned, then one must be the enemy, yes? Yet he does not follow on that.
I've always used 'unaligned' as 'not both mafia' instead of the literal meaning. I assume that's what Grape would be meaning here, as I think its the more common usage.
I just read down page 12 and saw someone comment on knowing my faction is all. I don't know how your reading that as me lurking, if I wanted to get a dig on anyone I would do it. At the time the 12th page was the knewest so i skimmed down that and then replied based on something that interested me.
Which I'd be a lot more ok with if you were posting something of value, but the entirety of your post was to shade Wisp. As Wisp indicated, you're not posting to contribute; you'r posting to post. Additionally, leaping to the closest thing you find shiny and attacking someone for it means that you don't care about context or what led up to Wisp outing your faction; you just saw an opportunity to attack Wisp.
It's not really shading, since I don't scum read him nor do I want eyes on him. I just don't particularly agree with him revealing my faction. Oh I mean I just post what I want to post, I don't normally put that much thought into my replies cause I don't really care how people view them.
If anyone.
Highroller was wondering why, if someone won, they wouldn't just out their team and say **** it because they won.
in the case of alt win-cons, winning one does not remove you from the game, so you have an obligation from the standpoint of either alignment to keep with game health, either way, the issue of game throwing isn't a problem that should be dealt with on a player level (or even something we as a player can decide on, whether something constitutes as game-throwing), rather so its an issue for the Mods of the game
I for the most part don't think the discussion is needed because I am sure Mods already know how to handle cases like that if one were to happen. I just don't particularly think its healthy for town to want to know factions, scum may want to know the factions since it could be easier for them to reach their alt win con then eliminating the entire town.
Just gonna claim a faction v faction based wincon cuz I'm trying to setupgame but it's hard because i dont know the alignments of folk in my faction or identities/ alignments of the faction we're allied against but won't stop me from trying
Anyway overall I'm expecting scum to be in separate factions so rarely multiple scum in the same one...
There should be some all town factions too but yeah
I'd assume so too, but there might be one multiple scum faction.
Also, in the game I had that mirrors this my SK was part of the faction which facilitated the mafia day chat and the mafia would have been told that. Food for thought on that one.
@Vaimes yeah you're right. To quote Tom in a summary fashion(IE I'm to lazy to find the exact quote) "The way DV solves games leads to feels bad" So with that in mind I'm sitting it out to an extent. That's not to say I'm not looking at information. I am, but there isn't enough of it for me to feel its useful.
That being said I've got a slight town read on you. IE Vaimes, and a couple of lesser town reads on Grape and Re.
I'm currently watching Tubba, Sir Chris and Shinichi(But on the last one hes bad at reading me and I'm bad at reading him). Just to say how bad it was I literally just sheeped Last's read on Shinichi in the team game and didn't try and figure the slot out at all. I think Shinichi sheeped Osie's read on me. So LoL at that.
I don't think this setup is multiball, especially with all these alternate win cons I believe their is only 1 mafia faction with maybe some third parties thrown in. You're a tough ball to crack and I normally tend to vote you based on how you react since you can be quite extreme XD.
Ehh this is a stretch and i don't think you've played enough mafia with last to actually believe this so why in the world do you think it hold any water?
This smacks of an opportunistic mafia trying too hard. Especially since you then go on to attack LastWhisper.
@Highroller, you usually are one to claim town should mass claim. Why not this game?
First post:
A note on flavor:
While flavor is not relevant to traditional alignment, it may be relevant to another player or house’s alternate Wincon, and revealing it may not be in your best interest. You have been warned.
The white walker comment feels like you are trying to
A: confuse everyone
B: pretend you don’t know about the scumteam
On top of that your case on LW is bad and you should feel bad for even trying to lynch that low hanging fruit.
Highroller I'm pretty sure if you start throwing the game at any point to ruin the fun for everyone else, you're getting instantly blacklisted... even if you've already won.
Uh, if the game gives you the option of two different win conditions, and you go after a win condition, that is, by definition, not throwing the game. That is the exact opposite of throwing the game. The game is mechanically disincentivizing you to work with the other team.
Hence my confusion from a game design perspective, because you haven't just created a game in which the town is disincentivized to work with each other, but the mafia team are as well. Which would create pandemonium.
Oh this is a juicy post I like it. Before anything I like to make it clear due to my poor memory and reactive posting sometimes i tend to contradict myself. See you would be right about that oppurtunistic statement if this wasnt my own brother, I think I can confidently speak on his behalf and it should almost always be NAI. Unless I am specifically trying to read him, based on what I think makes him scum not what others think makes him scum.
I don't like mass claims, what contradiction? Factional or Role i am against it 100%. Alt win cons should be ignored, if people don't claim their factions or factional win cons then we have 0 to worry about.
@highroller
are they? I'm going for my town win-con, I don't plan on going for my factional win-con at any point unless by accident... Actually, I won't say anymore because that requires me to state information on my alternate win-con
also, I'm not taking much likeness with your abrasive, smart ass behavior towards me, don't work with me, but this game will get hard if we are both town
My brother aka Shinichi is usually lynch bait, but I'm not getting those usual vibes that mafia love to jump on from him, rather quite the opposite, like the post you quoted which hints at the commentary that wolves love to employ to look like they actively care about anything that happens in the thread
but you do you, you can play ring around the rosy with the factional win-con and see where it gets you
Says this yet somehow people just magically know my faction lmfao, i dislike you with a passion. Also you calling me lynch bait puts a sour taste in my mouth lol. However I kinda wanna scum read you now espically if you are the one that revealed my faction because this is a huge 180.
I'd propose that we keep these things underwraps this way we can simply evaluate roles.
1. Case by case basis I guess, can the role confirm himself? does the mechanical claim out weigh how scummy they are?
2. Depends
3. I don't plan on saying anything even up the point of me being in L2 or L1
and that's good to hear, your last post I mean, I would love to finish a game with you... kek
You got kicked out of the last MAL game we were in. Don't look at Role PM's.
If you were a SK this game who would you kill tonight right now and why? Asking for a friend.
I didn't get kicked out of *****, that was Chad's fault for coming into my room knowing I was the mod of the game he was in, possible responding or reading something he shouldn't see
Uhm you literally opened it up, while i waas talking to you -.-. Not like I walked into your room and it was open in plain sight. You opened it while i was in front of your computer talking about whatever who knows lol.
@shinichi-kun
ill lynch you last because you're my brother if you hint me at who the other mafia are
This is some classic game of thrones *****.
We really should make today Brother on Brother lynch wagons.
@Tom Lynching Shinichi is against my win con. You know the one that says "Town win at the top"
thats ok, cause Shin isn't part of town
@Grape
no idea on her scum meta, I'm just as outdated as you
Watching your read slowly develop on me while nothing explaining why deeply saddens me, you kinda just skipped the part where i went from kinda being scum to just scum without any logic supporting it.
Espically knowing tom has been wrong about my alignment alot lol or he scum when im town.
I think it's too soon to jump on him for that though when others have done less.
The good ole, X is doing scummy things, but Y is also doing fewer towny things
what kind of arguement is that even? it doesnt change the fact that Shin is basically in commentary mode, and this is weird, since you shaded me for not having a decent enough meta read on you to just outright say you are town, but the meta-queen thinks this is town!shin? I refuse to believe that
You haven't been reading my posts either. I said IF I were to rely on meta, this would be his town game, but also that meta's iffy. I'm not clearing him by any means.
What's there to believe? It means just because Shinichi hasn't arrived at any conclusions YET doesn't make him scum. There are others who've said less despite being around to give something. I think you're making a false equivalency between a lack of conclusive stance at this point in the game and scum.
Is what I wanted to say. I don't think Shinichi has said anything scummy on his own. Rather, once he starts pushing, which if he doesn't when enough adequate time has passed, he can be scum or deadweight town, that's when a better evaluation of him can be formed.
I'd propose that we keep these things underwraps this way we can simply evaluate roles.
The same as usual, no? If someome's about to be lynched, they claim, and we re-evaluate if need be.
No, why would we?
Same as above, really.
I'm not sure why you're trying to dictate this discussion over scumhunting. I see little benefit in claiming our flavor. Perhaps you're attempting to flavor-fish in hopes it helps with your alt win con?
~~
@Grape
Thanks! Likewise. I was nominated via an anonymous voting process, but I think it's pretty obviously so if you were to look at my games on my homesite that I was voted for my town game, not so much scum. My scum game's significantly weaker than my town, due to a combo of anxiety + boredom, but certain things have improved since then, like the time it takes for my anxiety to kick in (if it does). Wolfing during shorter phases appeals to me, and I'm slowly beginning to enjoy it again with the help of MU's turbos.
When I get back onto the comp, I can link a couple of more recent wolf games if need be.
Well that's a solid plummet for you.
Yeah that's not what I'm talking about at all.
I'm saying when people are claiming should they also claim their Faction/Names of Characters.
I'm proposing that they don't so that alternate win conditions don't have any effect.
In fact I say that in the quote you have. Its like you read my post, quit reading when you saw that you could make an attack and didn't read the entire thing.
Vote RE
Contextually, that was absolutely unclear. You asked the questions in three seperate lines. They read as independent of each other.
Good to know you haven't been reading my posts either.
Contextually wise its highly clear. Context literally means to include the circumstances. The last line is context that informs the rest of the post.
When you say I have not read your posts what exactly do you mean by that? Is there something I'm missing? Or are you just trying to be a jerk with that? You clearly didn't read what I wrote. Twice. I'm unsure what you mean when you say I have not read your posts. I've read everything you've written so far. You have spoken about claiming that is true. But, that has no bearing at all on taking my own posts out of context.
Interesting interactions, if I had to pick the scum out of this it probably have to be wisp since I don't like the RE read. My meta on DV is that he hates when his posts get misread which ive noticed him do that alot as town. Basically his entire interaction towards Re gives me town vibes on him though because ive already got a town read on RE from a previous post I think the interaction is T V T.
I'm fine with being sheeped on 1035.
It's a little worrisome he hasn't been back in thread, but that first bit was pretty strongly noob town over noob scum.
probably going out for drinks later, answering RE's post should suffice for now
ill get to my other thoughts another time, as well as get to rereading the most recent posts from Shin that I barely skimmed over while at work
@Wisp
Let's start with this.
Why are LnGrrrR and Cantrip scum? What is wrong with their posts specifically?
Have you reevaluated my slot at all? If so, what is your read of me?
Do you think any of the people frequently posting, aka people you can communicate with easily, are scum? And why?
Why should I trust your scumreads when I don't trust you and your reasoning is weak if not nonexistent?
Why is Grr scum?
I will forever going forward analyze entry posts into the thread, his post looks like mafia trying to enter the thread by adding a bit of humor a long side his RVS vote, I’m bound to hit false positives at one point, but its an exact replica of his post in DiTF. I wouldn’t say anything he has done has shouted townie to me, and ill say that nothing outside of his entry post shouts obvious scum, his train grew fast at one point due to his claim of being factionless, and despite what the OP had said previously, I did think the claim made no sense from any standpoint, so I never thought it was a lie. I even defended him at one point because I thought all the votes on him were mindless, not that I thought that he couldn’t still be scum, its just those votes weren’t warranted, but as Chris said, anyone who was a wolf, would think that claim is stupid. Does it mean he can’t be scum? Of course not, I just think its stupid to push someone to the brink, and pressure them on something they’ve answered a thousand times, nothing will come of it but answers we expect, and how we choose to see it would never change. Hence, I am leaving him a lone for now.
Cantrip is someone, that spends most of his time writing large posts that answer a multitude of things, and someone who believes that players that post like that tend to be scum due to shear number of topics they choose to focus on. Bare in mind, I am writing this post without rereading his posts, so Idk how much of the content can be seen as actual hunting, but I’m still a bit wary of him. I don’t think as it stands, he is ever getting lynched off my own paranoia, but he’s not someone that is anywhere close to town
I still stand by the fact that your original posts felt like you were lost, just like Killjoy did, your content has been better, and I do think you have enough game knowledge to fake content that looks townie despite what you may believe. You can be a town lean for now, but the fact that you are wrong on me, makes it hard to deduce where you are coming from
From a game point state of view, I think there will always be a minimum of one scum in the frequent posters, but its still hard to say if its more or less than that. I am looking at DV and Highroller, the chance of it being both is slim, but not impossible. DV is a good player, but I don’t think as Shin has pointed out, that his frivolous attacks on things he perceives as “lies” to necessarily be a town tell, even from the sake of meta, its easy to bury someone off this notion of “not reading” as you can carry the conversation in w/e direction you please, and honestly “not reading”, is not a definite sign of either alignment, though I would like to believe town are more carefree in that department than scum. So at this point I have no conclusion on DV, his votes are all over the place, and at points it feels like he’s trying to drive something that will stick or hes just trying to understand where someone is coming from, his re-evaluation of you points more towards the latter, aka him being town, but I'm already pre-emptive enough
Highroller is someone who seems to think this notion of meta over X amount of games, is a tell above all tells, which I find insulting. Most of his talk has been mechanical outside his push on me, which whether he believes it to be true, just seems like a forced pushed. I think its wolfy to drive large cases on why someone is scum this early on. Wolves tend to feel like they need to prove themselves, pushing out reads that they perceive to be strong, just to push focus away from them as early as possible. Wolves also have difficulty faking emotions so they often use the trick of being very aggressive in their pushes, thereby focusing on one emotion. They can tunnel the hell out of a single player and level villagers into thinking that a wolf wouldn't play so recklessly. The above category mostly falls under DV, not Highroller, and DV is exactly the player to do that kind of play.
Conclusion: There could or could not be a wolf in those two, they could both be town for all I know, any of things I said, a town could also do. I’d I have to revisit their posts and ISO them, to have a clear reading.
Why should you trust me scum reads even though you don’t trust me? Well to put it simply, sharing is caring, and town can be wrong, you can be wrong, I could be right, or maybe I am wrong, you are most definitely not right on me. Weak reasoning is still reasoning, reasoning that could or could not be wrong
Yeah no. Having no faction is a big red flag for me and claiming to just have a town win con means I'mvery sure you're leaving information out. Means you've got something weird going on. Maybe not scum (as lacking a faction doesn't point to that) but worrying me.
Well, that's interesting. My first thought is, what a strange move for scum to make - claiming something unusual that'd undoubtedly draw attention. It's almost townie. But it's also not in the rulebook.
Each player will not only have a traditional Mafia alignment, but will also be a part of an ingame house or faction that has an alternate wincon (or wincons) that can be achieved in spite of or alongside your main factional win. You will know the members of your house/faction, and share a night chat with them (as such, use of discord is required for this game). You will not know their alignment, and flavor will be functionally random between the factions. It is possible for a player to win two ways.
This may call for an actual claim? Flavor claim, really. There shouldn't be any harm, after all, if LnGrrrR doesn't actually have an alternate win condition.
@RE as either alignment I'd expect you to engage. As town I'd less expect you to be as worried about defending the nuances of your read as opposed to the nuances of DV's behavior.
And cool, I'm glad we're on the same page on LnG. It's not scummy but it feels 3rd party-ish.
@DV I'm watching where you're going with RE and seeing where it leads. KJ's felt fake and I'll probe there once he's back.
You didn't specifically say "scum" or "gut," but I guess that's how I remembered it. I think it's basically what you were implying though. Not sure why you are questioning me on that though like you don't recall having that read?
Also, I don't like the progression on the LnG situation. I don't get why you are saying you wanted to vote to lynch him toDay despite not thinking he was necessarily scum. And then 467, 469, and 472 feel like damage mitigation for what you know was a bad vote/push. Like, you said he needs to die at some point, so what were you hoping to get out of lynching him toDay that garnered your vote at that time?
Ohhh I did forgot about that. Thanks. (@Cantrip I feel much better about Hunger now)
Yeah that's what I was implying, I just forgot about it and missed it when I skimmed my own ISO trying to find what you were referring to.
Anyway I was hoping for pressure and more information. I still wouldn't mind LnG claiming today. Still getting all sorts of bad vibes from him. But he's probably not scum.
People, for all that is holy, can we stop the War of the Walls going on here?
@GF, can you give examples, a side from my claim of being faction less, of why you don't like me?
@LW, Rhand and I both provided the same RVS votes that we have in the past few games. IIRC, I even brought that up in DitF. So what's the difference between me and Rhand there, other than I was scum in DitF?
Yeah no. Having no faction is a big red flag for me and claiming to just have a town win con means I'mvery sure you're leaving information out. Means you've got something weird going on. Maybe not scum (as lacking a faction doesn't point to that) but worrying me.
Well, that's interesting. My first thought is, what a strange move for scum to make - claiming something unusual that'd undoubtedly draw attention. It's almost townie. But it's also not in the rulebook.
Each player will not only have a traditional Mafia alignment, but will also be a part of an ingame house or faction that has an alternate wincon (or wincons) that can be achieved in spite of or alongside your main factional win. You will know the members of your house/faction, and share a night chat with them (as such, use of discord is required for this game). You will not know their alignment, and flavor will be functionally random between the factions. It is possible for a player to win two ways.
This may call for an actual claim? Flavor claim, really. There shouldn't be any harm, after all, if LnGrrrR doesn't actually have an alternate win condition.
@RE as either alignment I'd expect you to engage. As town I'd less expect you to be as worried about defending the nuances of your read as opposed to the nuances of DV's behavior.
And cool, I'm glad we're on the same page on LnG. It's not scummy but it feels 3rd party-ish.
Totally different perspectives on it...
You voted him for it. I did not. That's the difference, and a big one.
@Wisp
Well-written post. I have thoughts but gonna wait until I get back onto the comp to give them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@LW, Rhand and I both provided the same RVS votes that we have in the past few games. IIRC, I even brought that up in DitF. So what's the difference between me and Rhand there, other than I was scum in DitF?
honestly, I didnt even notice till I was rereading just now, that your post was in response to Rhand, honestly, these are literally the same RVS votes you both made in DiTF to a T... except Rhand went first this time, which makes him a more suspicious than you, I'm kinda over this atm like I stated, I will wait for more from both of you...
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Talk to me about Grape. He's being scummy to me but I was there in DitF where he basically completely forgot how to be town... Like he can have some really scummy town games. Is this one?
And talk to me about RE. I like the cold, calculatedness of her posts, but also dislike the slowrollyness of her posts, dpesite the fact that they go hand in hand.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Things keep happening on my cruise.
Demanding passengers, delays and reworking whole programs, crew member that needed an ambulance.
I don’t want to replace out, but if I don’t manage to catch up soon I will because now my slot is just dead weight.
gf's airbnb turned out not to be owned by the person we were dealing with, oh boy.
@ me if you want to discuss something, but don't expect much!
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Yes! I made the top of somebody's list.
I...am inclined to find you townier for this response.
Vote Shinichi
Your last post was 218. You say you'll reply when you can, then one minute later jump forward to 542 (or 575) and proceed to attack Wisp. Even if you've been keeping up on reading but not posting, this is a hella wolfy pop-in. Either you've been lurking and wanted to get that dig in as soon as possible, or you're seeing the scum daychat thread.
I don't read smh
I just read down page 12 and saw someone comment on knowing my faction is all. I don't know how your reading that as me lurking, if I wanted to get a dig on anyone I would do it. At the time the 12th page was the knewest so i skimmed down that and then replied based on something that interested me.
Normally shin is obvious Lynch bait, but I don't see it here
Put your vote on someone you think is mafia, and explain why they are mafia.
I barely vote on d1 that isn't gonna change now lol because if a little pressure
i made a totally of what 10 posts? I am curious to where the lock scum read comes from?
Ah, I misread that. I know you mentioned you weren't a claimed neutral but my brain didn't piece the two together.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I am confused at this statement cause your read on rod is also meta cause your basing off of his entrance being different than a scum game.
This stance from HR just screams town, mostly based on he handled the interaction with wisp. I don't particularly agree with any of this because again it seems like your also just trying to use meta to prove this makes wisp scum when in general the way he is playing as of right now should make him town. No way you can tell me that wisp is scum right now.
You should have 0 confidence in that read because the stats don't line up. Your read is based off 1 game, maybe your just tunneling rodemy with a town read when he isn't. I would rather you come to the udnerstanding of that instead of lock clearing him off of a silly entrance.
If thats the case based the wisp town HR scum? Vaimes has always been scum in lke most of the games iveplayed with him, its scary to think he may have actually rolled town.
WHy even succumb to the pressure and making this read list, its so empty.
You coming out and announceing you want the throne doesn't feel like its something scum would do in this situation. They would not want to give themselves that light as scum. For now you are town, but who knows how long that will last
I don't find it too odd, tom scum reads me quite alot so i doubt wisp would read into that overrall nothing tom has said before this post has been scummy Ive been wrong about tom alot though so who knows.
Just as much as I hate the scum read i hate how it seeems like your trying to get me to sheep you. I don't think either one of you should be putting an alignment on me based on the few posts I have made before this post i am quoting. He can hold onto that read the entire game but doesnt mean its true what so ever.
Nvm I like you now, its def clear your post isnt frail. You were able to back up your town read on me really well and for that I will give you a town read.
Last time vaimes town read me he was scum, and DV is neutral my understanding at the time was I could use the iron throne to reaveal dv alignment so i wouldnt have to deal with reading him later in the game is all.
No reason to put information out there that could cause town to divide, i would rather just lynch someone who is scum than have to worry about someone being pushed as scum just to bring forth a second agenda because they wanted that faction murdered.
When have you ever done things because its ideal, your capable of setting yourself up for late game.
Damn sorry more walls incoming
oh that would make u town this game then
It's not really shading, since I don't scum read him nor do I want eyes on him. I just don't particularly agree with him revealing my faction. Oh I mean I just post what I want to post, I don't normally put that much thought into my replies cause I don't really care how people view them.
I for the most part don't think the discussion is needed because I am sure Mods already know how to handle cases like that if one were to happen. I just don't particularly think its healthy for town to want to know factions, scum may want to know the factions since it could be easier for them to reach their alt win con then eliminating the entire town.
I don't think this setup is multiball, especially with all these alternate win cons I believe their is only 1 mafia faction with maybe some third parties thrown in. You're a tough ball to crack and I normally tend to vote you based on how you react since you can be quite extreme XD.
Oh this is a juicy post I like it. Before anything I like to make it clear due to my poor memory and reactive posting sometimes i tend to contradict myself. See you would be right about that oppurtunistic statement if this wasnt my own brother, I think I can confidently speak on his behalf and it should almost always be NAI. Unless I am specifically trying to read him, based on what I think makes him scum not what others think makes him scum.
I don't like mass claims, what contradiction? Factional or Role i am against it 100%. Alt win cons should be ignored, if people don't claim their factions or factional win cons then we have 0 to worry about.
Says this yet somehow people just magically know my faction lmfao, i dislike you with a passion. Also you calling me lynch bait puts a sour taste in my mouth lol. However I kinda wanna scum read you now espically if you are the one that revealed my faction because this is a huge 180.
Uhm you literally opened it up, while i waas talking to you -.-. Not like I walked into your room and it was open in plain sight. You opened it while i was in front of your computer talking about whatever who knows lol.
Obviously its rodemy
Watching your read slowly develop on me while nothing explaining why deeply saddens me, you kinda just skipped the part where i went from kinda being scum to just scum without any logic supporting it.
Espically knowing tom has been wrong about my alignment alot lol or he scum when im town.
da **** is commentary mode? Also when has DV ever been good at reading me LOL, he cant even read wisp accurately.
Rip, i guess i am town then
Interesting interactions, if I had to pick the scum out of this it probably have to be wisp since I don't like the RE read. My meta on DV is that he hates when his posts get misread which ive noticed him do that alot as town. Basically his entire interaction towards Re gives me town vibes on him though because ive already got a town read on RE from a previous post I think the interaction is T V T.
It's a little worrisome he hasn't been back in thread, but that first bit was pretty strongly noob town over noob scum.
ill get to my other thoughts another time, as well as get to rereading the most recent posts from Shin that I barely skimmed over while at work
Why is Grr scum?
I will forever going forward analyze entry posts into the thread, his post looks like mafia trying to enter the thread by adding a bit of humor a long side his RVS vote, I’m bound to hit false positives at one point, but its an exact replica of his post in DiTF. I wouldn’t say anything he has done has shouted townie to me, and ill say that nothing outside of his entry post shouts obvious scum, his train grew fast at one point due to his claim of being factionless, and despite what the OP had said previously, I did think the claim made no sense from any standpoint, so I never thought it was a lie. I even defended him at one point because I thought all the votes on him were mindless, not that I thought that he couldn’t still be scum, its just those votes weren’t warranted, but as Chris said, anyone who was a wolf, would think that claim is stupid. Does it mean he can’t be scum? Of course not, I just think its stupid to push someone to the brink, and pressure them on something they’ve answered a thousand times, nothing will come of it but answers we expect, and how we choose to see it would never change. Hence, I am leaving him a lone for now.
Cantrip is someone, that spends most of his time writing large posts that answer a multitude of things, and someone who believes that players that post like that tend to be scum due to shear number of topics they choose to focus on. Bare in mind, I am writing this post without rereading his posts, so Idk how much of the content can be seen as actual hunting, but I’m still a bit wary of him. I don’t think as it stands, he is ever getting lynched off my own paranoia, but he’s not someone that is anywhere close to town
I still stand by the fact that your original posts felt like you were lost, just like Killjoy did, your content has been better, and I do think you have enough game knowledge to fake content that looks townie despite what you may believe. You can be a town lean for now, but the fact that you are wrong on me, makes it hard to deduce where you are coming from
From a game point state of view, I think there will always be a minimum of one scum in the frequent posters, but its still hard to say if its more or less than that. I am looking at DV and Highroller, the chance of it being both is slim, but not impossible. DV is a good player, but I don’t think as Shin has pointed out, that his frivolous attacks on things he perceives as “lies” to necessarily be a town tell, even from the sake of meta, its easy to bury someone off this notion of “not reading” as you can carry the conversation in w/e direction you please, and honestly “not reading”, is not a definite sign of either alignment, though I would like to believe town are more carefree in that department than scum. So at this point I have no conclusion on DV, his votes are all over the place, and at points it feels like he’s trying to drive something that will stick or hes just trying to understand where someone is coming from, his re-evaluation of you points more towards the latter, aka him being town, but I'm already pre-emptive enough
Highroller is someone who seems to think this notion of meta over X amount of games, is a tell above all tells, which I find insulting. Most of his talk has been mechanical outside his push on me, which whether he believes it to be true, just seems like a forced pushed. I think its wolfy to drive large cases on why someone is scum this early on. Wolves tend to feel like they need to prove themselves, pushing out reads that they perceive to be strong, just to push focus away from them as early as possible. Wolves also have difficulty faking emotions so they often use the trick of being very aggressive in their pushes, thereby focusing on one emotion. They can tunnel the hell out of a single player and level villagers into thinking that a wolf wouldn't play so recklessly. The above category mostly falls under DV, not Highroller, and DV is exactly the player to do that kind of play.
Conclusion: There could or could not be a wolf in those two, they could both be town for all I know, any of things I said, a town could also do. I’d I have to revisit their posts and ISO them, to have a clear reading.
Why should you trust me scum reads even though you don’t trust me? Well to put it simply, sharing is caring, and town can be wrong, you can be wrong, I could be right, or maybe I am wrong, you are most definitely not right on me. Weak reasoning is still reasoning, reasoning that could or could not be wrong
alot of walls but who exactly is pinging you? did you say anyone could be mafia outside me?
I’ll catch up eventually.
Totally different perspectives on it...
Ohhh I did forgot about that. Thanks. (@Cantrip I feel much better about Hunger now)
Yeah that's what I was implying, I just forgot about it and missed it when I skimmed my own ISO trying to find what you were referring to.
Anyway I was hoping for pressure and more information. I still wouldn't mind LnG claiming today. Still getting all sorts of bad vibes from him. But he's probably not scum.
Opinion on shins recent posts?
@GF, can you give examples, a side from my claim of being faction less, of why you don't like me?
@LW, Rhand and I both provided the same RVS votes that we have in the past few games. IIRC, I even brought that up in DitF. So what's the difference between me and Rhand there, other than I was scum in DitF?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
@Wisp
Well-written post. I have thoughts but gonna wait until I get back onto the comp to give them.
Why do you have to pick scum between the two of us? Disregarding the read I gave on Wisp, why do you think Wisp could be scum?
honestly, I didnt even notice till I was rereading just now, that your post was in response to Rhand, honestly, these are literally the same RVS votes you both made in DiTF to a T... except Rhand went first this time, which makes him a more suspicious than you, I'm kinda over this atm like I stated, I will wait for more from both of you...
Anyone around and wanna do something fun?
What does this fun thing entail?
Is there anything you wanna talk about? Maybe some vague thoughts or feelings you want a second opinion on.
And talk to me about RE. I like the cold, calculatedness of her posts, but also dislike the slowrollyness of her posts, dpesite the fact that they go hand in hand.
Demanding passengers, delays and reworking whole programs, crew member that needed an ambulance.
I don’t want to replace out, but if I don’t manage to catch up soon I will because now my slot is just dead weight.