This is a lame reason to vote Grr, I mean I think he is scum, but like, let's assume mafia is randomly chosen amongst the factions, so someone in my family/faction could be scum, we all have the same alt win-cons in my family, and let's assume that everybody has a faction and an alt win-con, there is no reason to believe Grr is just some special case without an alt win-con or faction, and surely not a reason to be voting him
Not Voting (6): 1053nm, Shinichi, Hunger, Tubba Fett, Coballt, Cantripmancer
With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is May 14th at 1700 MST.
A reminder about Iron Throne support: All support must be done via PM (either MTGS or discord), and can be changed as many times as you wish up until twilight is announced.
With that, I still have no idea why he claimed to have no faction, or what it means if anything, but I think it's frivolous to vote him on the basis that you think it makes him a wolf
Anyways, I'm a clairvoyant and I'm still 99% sure that Grr is scum from his entrance alone
Alright so mostly caught up - the skimmed through version. So some random stuff off the top of the head. Don't have a ton of time in the next week or so.
Last seems to be acting like Last from my limited experience. Don't think anything he is doing is alignment indicative so far. However, I think his stance on only playing to the traditional wincon is bad. Why did you sign up for this game then? It wasn't a secret that there are multiple ways to win and the game is designed around that and people are going to play it that way.
Going to barn Grape on the KJ gut read - I got scum vibes from his first post. I should probably reread KJ. Also overall town lean on Grape. I find myself following his arguments for the most part so far.
Didn't really read the DV v RE stuff, but looks like they worked it out. I have a null DV for so far and town lean on RE. Partly due to her(?) first post seeming to not be aware of daychat, but also seems engaged and solvy.
I like Highroller so far. While a bit combative in tone, he seems to be trying to solve and while last/Grape say his conclusions may be bad, as Grape pointed out his arguments are factual. I tend to be a mechanics focused-player as well - so I think something with his wonderment at the setup strikes a chord with me. But I think it's brilliant in that it fits the flavor of GoT super well - even the "good" guys might do "bad" things to further their agendas. That and I trust shadow to make a balanced game.
@DV - Yeah, I think as Highroller has pointed out it's probably safe to assume most of our alternate wincons have to do with other factions and so keeping flavor out of claims could certainly simplify things as well as make other factions alternate wincons more difficult. I think what you are getting at here is that you don't want alternate wincons to influence whether or not to lynch someone based on their flavor alone? And trying to lynch based solely on scuminess? I think eventually it's going to be difficult to keep the alternate wincons out of the equation, but maybe it's best to obfuscate that info as long as possible? I don't know how I feel about it fully yet. Like, I want to know everyone else's flavor to make my alternate wincons easier, but I don't want people to know mine knowing full well it could lead to an untimely death. Catch 22.
I'm getting scum vibes from Kami. I think that attack on Grape was bad and I think he was focused on the unalignment/TMI aspect and is trying to back out. Questions also feel forced like he is trying to look like he's doing something.
Trying to think through the LnG motivation. Like, he has to be lying based on the fact that OP states we all have alternate wincons, but on the other hand, it's so obviously a bad lie if it's a lie that it could just be that he is the exception to the rule? I need to think about it more. Either way there is some ignorance here, whether it is faked or not. I had no feelings about his other posts that I remember.
On the Throne business - I get the Sir Chris nomination suggestion, but it's sort of a dual-edged sword. If he is town he is a great person to have some sort of protection and multiple votes, but if he is town he is likely an early NK target and we lose both him and the Throne powers for a Day in that case. I'd lean towards supporting his nomination, but I think there is plenty of Day left to figure that out.
I can actively achieve all my win-cons just by hunting mafia, either way, I still see this as a game of 1's and 0's, you have the main mafia wincon and the town win con, and those are what should be actively achieved overall. Honestly I'll be solely disappointed if I lose my main-con because people actively sought their alt wincons
I don't plan at any point, on giving out my faction, my alt win-cons, or role, to mitigate the swinginess of this game, including if I'm about to get lynched, because I don't think any of those should change why you are lynching me anyways...
People can play however they want, but if you are actively trying doing something that pushes me further from my town win-con, we are going to have a ******* problem
This is a lame reason to vote Grr, I mean I think he is scum, but like, let's assume mafia is randomly chosen amongst the factions, so someone in my family/faction could be scum, we all have the same alt win-cons in my family, and let's assume that everybody has a faction and an alt win-con, there is no reason to believe Grr is just some special case without an alt win-con or faction, and surely not a reason to be voting him
Wisp
I have no clue what you are trying to say here.
The primer makes it clear that everyone will have an alternate win con.
Didn't really read the DV v RE stuff, but looks like they worked it out. I have a null DV for so far and town lean on RE. Partly due to her(?) first post seeming to not be aware of daychat, but also seems engaged and solvy.
Small thing, I knew there was a day chat. But I thought it was still strange of a thought that someone would check with their buds before making a single read, especially this early in the game. Currently thinking that's something not worth pursuing though.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
This is a lame reason to vote Grr, I mean I think he is scum, but like, let's assume mafia is randomly chosen amongst the factions, so someone in my family/faction could be scum, we all have the same alt win-cons in my family, and let's assume that everybody has a faction and an alt win-con, there is no reason to believe Grr is just some special case without an alt win-con or faction, and surely not a reason to be voting him
Wisp
I have no clue what you are trying to say here.
The primer makes it clear that everyone will have an alternate win con.
I'm saying that him stating he doesn't makes no sense from the perspective of a wolf or a villager, cause like you said, it's stated that we all have one, so why does him saying he doesn't have one equate to him more likely being scum? Hence it's a bad reason to vote him... I'm saying this as someone who would love to see him flip today who thinks he has one of the higher chances of flipping scum in this game...
This is a lame reason to vote Grr, I mean I think he is scum, but like, let's assume mafia is randomly chosen amongst the factions, so someone in my family/faction could be scum, we all have the same alt win-cons in my family, and let's assume that everybody has a faction and an alt win-con, there is no reason to believe Grr is just some special case without an alt win-con or faction, and surely not a reason to be voting him
Wisp
I have no clue what you are trying to say here.
The primer makes it clear that everyone will have an alternate win con.
I'm saying that him stating he doesn't makes no sense from the perspective of a wolf or a villager, cause like you said, it's stated that we all have one, so why does him saying he doesn't have one equate to him more likely being scum? Hence it's a bad reason to vote him... I'm saying this as someone who would love to see him flip today who thinks he has one of the higher chances of flipping scum in this game...
My response is that his win condition is probabally anti-town so he lied to hide it.
He might be town, he might be scum, he might be a neutral. But the win condition is anti-town. So, I don't care.
With that, I still have no idea why he claimed to have no faction, or what it means if anything, but I think it's frivolous to vote him on the basis that you think it makes him a wolf
Anyways, I'm a clairvoyant and I'm still 99% sure that Grr is scum from his entrance alone
With that, I still have no idea why he claimed to have no faction, or what it means if anything, but I think it's frivolous to vote him on the basis that you think it makes him a wolf
Anyways, I'm a clairvoyant and I'm still 99% sure that Grr is scum from his entrance alone
This is a lame reason to vote Grr, I mean I think he is scum, but like, let's assume mafia is randomly chosen amongst the factions, so someone in my family/faction could be scum, we all have the same alt win-cons in my family, and let's assume that everybody has a faction and an alt win-con, there is no reason to believe Grr is just some special case without an alt win-con or faction, and surely not a reason to be voting him
Wisp
I have no clue what you are trying to say here.
The primer makes it clear that everyone will have an alternate win con.
I'm saying that him stating he doesn't makes no sense from the perspective of a wolf or a villager, cause like you said, it's stated that we all have one, so why does him saying he doesn't have one equate to him more likely being scum? Hence it's a bad reason to vote him... I'm saying this as someone who would love to see him flip today who thinks he has one of the higher chances of flipping scum in this game...
My response is that his win condition is probabally anti-town so he lied to hide it.
He might be town, he might be scum, he might be a neutral. But the win condition is anti-town. So, I don't care.
This is a lame reason to vote Grr, I mean I think he is scum, but like, let's assume mafia is randomly chosen amongst the factions, so someone in my family/faction could be scum, we all have the same alt win-cons in my family, and let's assume that everybody has a faction and an alt win-con, there is no reason to believe Grr is just some special case without an alt win-con or faction, and surely not a reason to be voting him
Wisp
I have no clue what you are trying to say here.
The primer makes it clear that everyone will have an alternate win con.
I'm saying that him stating he doesn't makes no sense from the perspective of a wolf or a villager, cause like you said, it's stated that we all have one, so why does him saying he doesn't have one equate to him more likely being scum? Hence it's a bad reason to vote him... I'm saying this as someone who would love to see him flip today who thinks he has one of the higher chances of flipping scum in this game...
My response is that his win condition is probabally anti-town so he lied to hide it.
He might be town, he might be scum, he might be a neutral. But the win condition is anti-town. So, I don't care.
Must be lynched.
You guys might as well lynch me if you are all going to be this dense.
Let's think this through: my alt wincon is anti town... so instead of just blowing it off, and not claiming anything because why would I, instead I decide to share that I am faction less knowing it would draw attention.
Because... I am an idiot?
Look, I know what the OP says. I also know what my PM says. If people want my claim, they can run me up to L2 and I will share the rest.
Just lynch a few of the people that hopped on this wagon early.
With that, I still have no idea why he claimed to have no faction, or what it means if anything, but I think it's frivolous to vote him on the basis that you think it makes him a wolf
Anyways, I'm a clairvoyant and I'm still 99% sure that Grr is scum from his entrance alone
You are 99% wrong.
real convincing
Well I can't show you my PM so I guess we are at an impasse.
With that, I still have no idea why he claimed to have no faction, or what it means if anything, but I think it's frivolous to vote him on the basis that you think it makes him a wolf
Anyways, I'm a clairvoyant and I'm still 99% sure that Grr is scum from his entrance alone
You are 99% wrong.
real convincing
Well I can't show you my PM so I guess we are at an impasse.
With that, I still have no idea why he claimed to have no faction, or what it means if anything, but I think it's frivolous to vote him on the basis that you think it makes him a wolf
Anyways, I'm a clairvoyant and I'm still 99% sure that Grr is scum from his entrance alone
You are 99% wrong.
real convincing
Well I can't show you my PM so I guess we are at an impasse.
you can do townie things...
I moved the convo off the mind numbing walls you and HR were pushing against each other, for one thing.
Is it so unbelievable that there would be an exception?
The OP is clear: it says "every" player has a house/faction. There's no wiggle room there.
False information in the OP would by definition be a bastard game, which I don't believe this is. That said, it's possible that the OP description has an oversight where the mod misspoke or didn't think of an edge case. It is my hope that if this is true, the mod will simply correct it.
Mod: is it possible for a player to not have a faction?
Is it so unbelievable that there would be an exception?
The OP is clear: it says "every" player has a house/faction. There's no wiggle room there.
False information in the OP would by definition be a bastard game, which I don't believe this is. That said, it's possible that the OP description has an oversight where the mod misspoke or didn't think of an edge case. It is my hope that if this is true, the mod will simply correct it.
Mod: is it possible for a player to not have a faction?
Once again.
Tom isn't known for his prowess in this area.
I agree all and every mean all and every. There is no exception.
I just find it weird, I'm not arguing he has to be of any alignment because he claims to be faction less
If he were actually factionless that would, indeed, say nothing about alignment. It's the lying that raises my hackles.
The thing giving me pause before outright calling for his head: We know the evil ones can speak during the day. Wouldn't someone have told him this is a bad idea to claim?
In a game with factions, "factionless" or even "may gain a faction later", seems implicitly possible to me.
And could think of multiple flavors that would fit either tbh
This man should be ignored at all costs.
To see what I mean see both Phoenix Wright mafia where Tom lynched a claimed vig and see Four Horseman mafia where Tom made an enormous error about who could and couldn't perform the night kill. When he got called out for that bad claim he never once defended it. It cost us the game.
I just find it weird, I'm not arguing he has to be of any alignment because he claims to be faction less
If he were actually factionless that would, indeed, say nothing about alignment. It's the lying that raises my hackles.
The thing giving me pause before outright calling for his head: We know the evil ones can speak during the day. Wouldn't someone have told him this is a bad idea to claim?
you can't prepare for everything your partners may say... There's also literally no reason for him to lie about this, plain and simple
@grr
Should we mechanically read you as town, for a claim that goes against everything we should believe w/o you full claiming? Honestly this is just middle that's filling up the thread, I'm over this conversation
Just so we are clear there is almost no way that Lngr is mafia for what he said. Maybe harmful third party but his talk about not having a faction and bringing it up in such a guileless fashion is not a mafia tactic in any stretch of the imagination.
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You've literally claimed that you are not part of a faction.
That is flavor.
Try again.
Is "cop" a flavor claim too, because the flavor is a cop checking an ID?
My lack of faction is mechanical.
Faction is flavor and mechanical.
If someone claims Stark. That's both mechanical and flavorful. I'm uncertain why this is a hard concept for you.
Cop is a role, factionless is something of both. I don't know how to make this any more clear.
Except you don't know what my role is, so you don't even know if being factionless fits the "flavor" of my role. Lack of faction says nothing about my flavor... heck if anything, especially because I am factionless.
@LW, I am not saying I should be town read. I am saying that calling me scum (or freaking calling me a liar like kami has) is pretty poor play if you're basing it solely on me being faction-less.
Just so we are clear there is almost no way that Lngr is mafia for what he said. Maybe harmful third party but his talk about not having a faction and bringing it up in such a guileless fashion is not a mafia tactic in any stretch of the imagination.
Strongly disagree.
Have you looked at the way he's tried to defend himself?
He has attacked and tried to discredit HR instead of attacking the argument. He has attempted to strawman my own argument. And he's said "Lynch people on my wagon" when there are only five of us and instead of doing analysis he just wants blood.
@LW
It was a hypothetical, I don't think it says anything about your alignment, unlike Chris who just responded and DV, which I've stated a multiple of times
Also, I disagree it's worthless. I absofreakinglutely guarantee that someone who hopped onto me is scum. DV, GF, HR. At least one of them is scum thinking they can pull off an easy D1 kill.
You've literally claimed that you are not part of a faction.
That is flavor.
Try again.
Is "cop" a flavor claim too, because the flavor is a cop checking an ID?
My lack of faction is mechanical.
Faction is flavor and mechanical.
If someone claims Stark. That's both mechanical and flavorful. I'm uncertain why this is a hard concept for you.
Cop is a role, factionless is something of both. I don't know how to make this any more clear.
Except you don't know what my role is, so you don't even know if being factionless fits the "flavor" of my role. Lack of faction says nothing about my flavor... heck if anything, especially because I am factionless.
@LW, I am not saying I should be town read. I am saying that calling me scum (or freaking calling me a liar like kami has) is pretty poor play if you're basing it solely on me being faction-less.
This has nothing to do with what I said.
I don't know what your role is. Your role is mechanical in nature.
You've ignored the argument made. Your claim is flavor claim. There are only a few character that would be not be part of a faction.
These arguments are incredibly bad. I'd advise you to not attack players like HR, when they are clearly above your level if you are going to make arguments such as this.
Also, I disagree it's worthless. I absofreakinglutely guarantee that someone who hopped onto me is scum. DV, GF, HR. At least one of them is scum thinking they can pull off an easy D1 kill.
if you are town, then maybe, but they requires you to flip first
These types of tunnels are common for DV, grapefruit pings me the most out of the 3, HR is something I'm trying to walk away from right now
This conversation has reached its peak, we are literally just filling up the thread with muddle at this point, nothing new will come from this, only what you want to see and nothing else...
Just so we are clear there is almost no way that Lngr is mafia for what he said. Maybe harmful third party but his talk about not having a faction and bringing it up in such a guileless fashion is not a mafia tactic in any stretch of the imagination.
Strongly disagree.
Have you looked at the way he's tried to defend himself?
He has attacked and tried to discredit HR instead of attacking the argument. He has attempted to strawman my own argument. And he's said "Lynch people on my wagon" when there are only five of us and instead of doing analysis he just wants blood.
What analysis is there to make? People said, "LOL LIAR, MUST BE SCUMZ!" and hopped on.
What argument is there to attack when HR calls me a liar?
And the whole point I brought it up is because while HR has said that he doesn't like mass claims when it is stated that mass claiming may be bad, the game said that sharing flavor may be bad IIRC, so I am surprised he didn't suggest any sort of mechanical claim.
Also, my character does not cleanly fit with not having a faction, so you are wrong on the "flavor" matching too. You are just pretty much wrong all over.
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LnGrrrR (5): Rhand, Lastwhisper, Grapefruit21, D_V, Highroller
Grapefruit21 (2): RE1031, KamikazeArchon
Shinichi (2): tomsloger, Killjoy
Highroller (2): Rodemy, LnGrrrR
D_V (1): Vaimes
Killjoy (1): Sir Chris
Not Voting (6): 1053nm, Shinichi, Hunger, Tubba Fett, Coballt, Cantripmancer
With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is May 14th at 1700 MST.
A reminder about Iron Throne support: All support must be done via PM (either MTGS or discord), and can be changed as many times as you wish up until twilight is announced.
Anyways, I'm a clairvoyant and I'm still 99% sure that Grr is scum from his entrance alone
Last seems to be acting like Last from my limited experience. Don't think anything he is doing is alignment indicative so far. However, I think his stance on only playing to the traditional wincon is bad. Why did you sign up for this game then? It wasn't a secret that there are multiple ways to win and the game is designed around that and people are going to play it that way.
Going to barn Grape on the KJ gut read - I got scum vibes from his first post. I should probably reread KJ. Also overall town lean on Grape. I find myself following his arguments for the most part so far.
Didn't really read the DV v RE stuff, but looks like they worked it out. I have a null DV for so far and town lean on RE. Partly due to her(?) first post seeming to not be aware of daychat, but also seems engaged and solvy.
I like Highroller so far. While a bit combative in tone, he seems to be trying to solve and while last/Grape say his conclusions may be bad, as Grape pointed out his arguments are factual. I tend to be a mechanics focused-player as well - so I think something with his wonderment at the setup strikes a chord with me. But I think it's brilliant in that it fits the flavor of GoT super well - even the "good" guys might do "bad" things to further their agendas. That and I trust shadow to make a balanced game.
@DV - Yeah, I think as Highroller has pointed out it's probably safe to assume most of our alternate wincons have to do with other factions and so keeping flavor out of claims could certainly simplify things as well as make other factions alternate wincons more difficult. I think what you are getting at here is that you don't want alternate wincons to influence whether or not to lynch someone based on their flavor alone? And trying to lynch based solely on scuminess? I think eventually it's going to be difficult to keep the alternate wincons out of the equation, but maybe it's best to obfuscate that info as long as possible? I don't know how I feel about it fully yet. Like, I want to know everyone else's flavor to make my alternate wincons easier, but I don't want people to know mine knowing full well it could lead to an untimely death. Catch 22.
I'm getting scum vibes from Kami. I think that attack on Grape was bad and I think he was focused on the unalignment/TMI aspect and is trying to back out. Questions also feel forced like he is trying to look like he's doing something.
Trying to think through the LnG motivation. Like, he has to be lying based on the fact that OP states we all have alternate wincons, but on the other hand, it's so obviously a bad lie if it's a lie that it could just be that he is the exception to the rule? I need to think about it more. Either way there is some ignorance here, whether it is faked or not. I had no feelings about his other posts that I remember.
On the Throne business - I get the Sir Chris nomination suggestion, but it's sort of a dual-edged sword. If he is town he is a great person to have some sort of protection and multiple votes, but if he is town he is likely an early NK target and we lose both him and the Throne powers for a Day in that case. I'd lean towards supporting his nomination, but I think there is plenty of Day left to figure that out.
Wisp
I have no clue what you are trying to say here.
The primer makes it clear that everyone will have an alternate win con.
My response is that his win condition is probabally anti-town so he lied to hide it.
He might be town, he might be scum, he might be a neutral. But the win condition is anti-town. So, I don't care.
Must be lynched.
Except it's a mechanical claim so....
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And HR is notoriously bad at trying to meta game. That isn't a player I would want to hitch myself to.
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You are 99% wrong.
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You guys might as well lynch me if you are all going to be this dense.
Let's think this through: my alt wincon is anti town... so instead of just blowing it off, and not claiming anything because why would I, instead I decide to share that I am faction less knowing it would draw attention.
Because... I am an idiot?
Look, I know what the OP says. I also know what my PM says. If people want my claim, they can run me up to L2 and I will share the rest.
Just lynch a few of the people that hopped on this wagon early.
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Well I can't show you my PM so I guess we are at an impasse.
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Are you about to tell me, that the OP is lying to everyone and your special just so shadow can **** with us?
Yes. Obviously.
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I moved the convo off the mind numbing walls you and HR were pushing against each other, for one thing.
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Like sure. OP says we've all got factions. Hell, ive got two.
But lngrr truthfully claiming none seems at least as likely to me as him lying about it.
Didn't really get anything from his other posts but it's reasonably likely he's factionless regardless of alignment
False information in the OP would by definition be a bastard game, which I don't believe this is. That said, it's possible that the OP description has an oversight where the mod misspoke or didn't think of an edge case. It is my hope that if this is true, the mod will simply correct it.
Mod: is it possible for a player to not have a faction?
In a game with factions, "factionless" or even "may gain a faction later", seems implicitly possible to me.
And could think of multiple flavors that would fit either tbh
Once again.
Tom isn't known for his prowess in this area.
I agree all and every mean all and every. There is no exception.
Except it is a flavor claim.
You've literally claimed that you are not part of a faction.
That is flavor.
Try again.
I don't even see why this comment was necessary.
I agree with HR. I'm very good at mechanical and meta analysis.
HR has bad flavor gaming. And you've tried to say this is mechanical claim. I disagree, but with your claim as is then HR's push wouldn't be invalid.
The thing giving me pause before outright calling for his head: We know the evil ones can speak during the day. Wouldn't someone have told him this is a bad idea to claim?
ptap. Slammed with school.
This man should be ignored at all costs.
To see what I mean see both Phoenix Wright mafia where Tom lynched a claimed vig and see Four Horseman mafia where Tom made an enormous error about who could and couldn't perform the night kill. When he got called out for that bad claim he never once defended it. It cost us the game.
I can provide more examples if needed.
I don't know if this is a joke or not.
But those literally mean the opposite meaning.
Is "cop" a flavor claim too, because the flavor is a cop checking an ID?
My lack of faction is mechanical.
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Faction is flavor and mechanical.
If someone claims Stark. That's both mechanical and flavorful. I'm uncertain why this is a hard concept for you.
Cop is a role, factionless is something of both. I don't know how to make this any more clear.
Should we mechanically read you as town, for a claim that goes against everything we should believe w/o you full claiming? Honestly this is just middle that's filling up the thread, I'm over this conversation
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Except you don't know what my role is, so you don't even know if being factionless fits the "flavor" of my role. Lack of faction says nothing about my flavor... heck if anything, especially because I am factionless.
@LW, I am not saying I should be town read. I am saying that calling me scum (or freaking calling me a liar like kami has) is pretty poor play if you're basing it solely on me being faction-less.
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Strongly disagree.
Have you looked at the way he's tried to defend himself?
He has attacked and tried to discredit HR instead of attacking the argument. He has attempted to strawman my own argument. And he's said "Lynch people on my wagon" when there are only five of us and instead of doing analysis he just wants blood.
It was a hypothetical, I don't think it says anything about your alignment, unlike Chris who just responded and DV, which I've stated a multiple of times
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This has nothing to do with what I said.
I don't know what your role is. Your role is mechanical in nature.
You've ignored the argument made. Your claim is flavor claim. There are only a few character that would be not be part of a faction.
These arguments are incredibly bad. I'd advise you to not attack players like HR, when they are clearly above your level if you are going to make arguments such as this.
These types of tunnels are common for DV, grapefruit pings me the most out of the 3, HR is something I'm trying to walk away from right now
Additionally, I have made a small change to the OP under House/Faction rules to add some clarity.
What analysis is there to make? People said, "LOL LIAR, MUST BE SCUMZ!" and hopped on.
What argument is there to attack when HR calls me a liar?
And the whole point I brought it up is because while HR has said that he doesn't like mass claims when it is stated that mass claiming may be bad, the game said that sharing flavor may be bad IIRC, so I am surprised he didn't suggest any sort of mechanical claim.
Also, my character does not cleanly fit with not having a faction, so you are wrong on the "flavor" matching too. You are just pretty much wrong all over.
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