I'm getting weird vibes from tom. I don't really buy what he's saying. His "Grape pushing RE while staying out of the conflict around Shinichi and Wisp is what I'd expect from him if he was scum with one of them" post keeps coming back to me. He's someone I'd keep an eye on.
why?
Do you disagree with that statement?
Think im scum with last or Shin?
But sure clearly keep an eye on me haven't really done anything AI yet
I'm getting weird vibes from tom. I don't really buy what he's saying. His "Grape pushing RE while staying out of the conflict around Shinichi and Wisp is what I'd expect from him if he was scum with one of them" post keeps coming back to me. He's someone I'd keep an eye on.
why?
Do you disagree with that statement?
Think im scum with last or Shin?
But sure clearly keep an eye on me haven't really done anything AI yet
It's a vibe.
Either it's nothing, or I'll be able to explain it eventually. It's a weird conclusion to come to. Like, it doesn't not make sense, but it's forceful? Shallow? Malicious?
Based on your frequent voting of Last and Shin (iirc), I don't think you're aligned with both of them, and maybe at most one of them.
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I'm getting weird vibes from tom. I don't really buy what he's saying. His "Grape pushing RE while staying out of the conflict around Shinichi and Wisp is what I'd expect from him if he was scum with one of them" post keeps coming back to me. He's someone I'd keep an eye on.
why?
Do you disagree with that statement?
Think im scum with last or Shin?
But sure clearly keep an eye on me haven't really done anything AI yet
Without getting into this, you are playing both sides. Its an unfortunate way that you solve the game as town. However, you pushing me at all is making me sort of have hesitations about you being town, since I'd need to really look but I feel that you largely play the margins with me only when you are scum. However, maybe its just when I play my instant town read games you are town.
I'm going to build off of that RE term. "Shallow" its shallow but its also "Suggestive". And I don't mean sexually. I mean, your suggesting ideas, but not really concrete on anything. Its just Wimpy? Its like you're sort of floating ideas out and seeing if anyone else takes up the mantle. I've seen you do this in Ghostbusters pretty effectively, I'm unsure if I've seen you do this as town.
I'm going to build off of that RE term. "Shallow" its shallow but its also "Suggestive". And I don't mean sexually. I mean, your suggesting ideas, but not really concrete on anything. Its just Wimpy? Its like you're sort of floating ideas out and seeing if anyone else takes up the mantle. I've seen you do this in Ghostbusters pretty effectively, I'm unsure if I've seen you do this as town.
i feel like that's pretty normal for me day 1?
Idk i dont remember having this weak of reads in a long time
Shinichi, dv, and rhand have all made leaps now that don't quite work progression/thought process -wise
Shin on rod, dv on grape, rhand on highroller.
Prolly some minor ones too... last on shin, Kami on me, grape on RE?
There's some wolves mentioned in this post probably
vote tom
This is a whole lot of unfounded shade on multiple players.
sup
I shaded no one this is a summary post of other people's pushes but I don't think mentioning 6 players (including the 3 major wagons of the day) and saying there's scum in there would even count as shade?
Anyway only name in there im scumreading rn is last I'm unsure on DV/grape after this whole thing they're doing and im townreading shin and kami...
RE exists as well I guess
“Oh, you think the prod is your ally? But you merely adopted the prod. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t make a relevant post for days.”
I’ve got nothing. The needle isn’t moving for me yet. I don’t like how Last shaded me for not answering their question, then ignored it when I did. Same for Re minus the shade. I feel like scum would’ve pushed it more though.
Shin/Last seem like a dichotomy of mostly Last’s creation, and the amount of thread taken up with whatever weird circular logic dance thing they have going on is confusing and makes it difficult to literally read. As far as consistency and tone go, I’m leaning Last over Shin. It’s a vibe, like they were all over the place early and now it’s like they’re looking for a place to pounce. Not a confident read at all though.
Grape feels off to me as well. I see the town clearing vs. scum hunting aspect, but Rod is an easy one, Rhand is a weird one, and I agree with D_v about 1053 being a consensus one.
But I have no real strong reads right now either so, glass houses, stones and all that.
Would cross my fingers and lynch Last, Grape and distant third Shinichi.
Sorry, I didn't see this for some reason.
I've leaned towards town this entire game, but part of me's worried I could just be giving him a pass. I'm aware his manner of posting is scummy. It's really not at all different from how I've seen him play as town though. I don't like that I have to give him passes for his play, but lynching him for something NAI doesn't sit well with me. There are two things that make me mainly lean him towards being town - the vocabulary used in his commentary (it's bold), and his earlier comment on wanting to appoint D_V for the Iron Throne so that he could clear his alignment (even though he misunderstood how the mechanic worked, it struck me as an excessive thought if it came from scum). Him also repeatedly not understanding how the Iron Throne mechanic works may also suggest he's working independently (not knowing who his allies are).
Objectively speaking, Shinichi is LHF. So rather than me strongly townreading him, it's for that I'm most hesitant in lynching him.
I’ve got nothing. The needle isn’t moving for me yet. I don’t like how Last shaded me for not answering their question, then ignored it when I did. Same for Re minus the shade. I feel like scum would’ve pushed it more though.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. If you asked me a question and I didn't answer it, it's because I missed it, skimmed it, forgot about it, one of those. If it still requires a response, I'll give it one.
If you mean when I asked you about LnGrrrR, technically I didn't need to. I forgot you already gave your thoughts on him before I asked. I asked specifically because last game, you gave a meta read on LnGrrrR and accurately called him out as scum. It may have been informative or at least helpful to see your take on him this game. You townread him for mechanical reasons for the most part though.
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If you’re townreading most of them, why even bother to make that post?
summation?
Thinking out loud?
See whod respond?
Like everything i do has a purpose but that doesnt mean i have any plan for what that purpose is
Also the 6th was you not RE
Same read though: idk.
Id like to see what comes of your highroller read (is the answer "nah ive moved on to tom"?) and id like to see RE come to, yknow, A Conclusion...
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Sorry, I didn't see this for some reason.
I've leaned towards town this entire game, but part of me's worried I could just be giving him a pass. I'm aware his manner of posting is scummy. It's really not at all different from how I've seen him play as town though. I don't like that I have to give him passes for his play, but lynching him for something NAI doesn't sit well with me. There are two things that make me mainly lean him towards being town - the vocabulary used in his commentary (it's bold), and his earlier comment on wanting to appoint D_V for the Iron Throne so that he could clear his alignment (even though he misunderstood how the mechanic worked, it struck me as an excessive thought if it came from scum). Him also repeatedly not understanding how the Iron Throne mechanic works may also suggest he's working independently (not knowing who his allies are).
Objectively speaking, Shinichi is LHF. So rather than me strongly townreading him, it's for that I'm most hesitant in lynching him.
i, too, worry that im just overcorrecting on shin.
Like, baseline this is scummy but it doesnt feel like it means much for him and really its whatever
Tom: How many scum do you think in that group doing the voting? What about being voted?
Iirc im still voting grape because his entire wagon seemed townie
Dont remember wagons atm but i remember thinking there was prolly scum on shin regardless of his alignment
My gut says theres 2 or more in the nonvoters/offwagon but again, no real strong reads here...
After "vaimes feels like town vaimes" and "lngrr claimed like he had no inside info" (which themselves are pretty far from locks) my next strongest read is "1053 seemed towny like 1000 posts ago" or "sure this could be town kami" and none of those are even scumreads
@HR: I said the votes FEEL bandwagony, not that they are.
You're going to have to backpedal harder than that to get out of the hole you dug for yourself, friend.
I said in that same post that I had to look at context, which I will do when I find time.
Why are you so defensive? It's one vote. It's not like you're about to be lynched.
Oh, this is not me being defensive, Rhand. This is me highlighting an obvious logical error in your posts and asking you to justify how this is even possible.
About the Grape / LW vote choice: that has nothing to do with me thinking your other votes feel bandwagony. The reason that that pinged me and made me look at your iso is that we are nearing EOD and you choose the shorter wagon of your two suspects to place your vote.
Imagine if I said, "I'm voting Rhand. My rationale for this is that Rhand seems to only post on even number posts!" and someone asked me what made me suspicious of you, and I said, "Here, post number 7 is the one that pinged me!"
Wouldn't that be weird? It'd be like, really, Highroller? You voted someone because he posts on even numbers, and then you say the post that made you suspicious is one in which he posts on an odd number - y'know, the exact opposite of the thing you're accusing him of? Isn't that strange?
And yet here you are doing the exact same thing. You accuse me of bandwagoning, and then when people ask for your rationale, you point to a post in I'm not only doing the opposite of bandwagoning, but also you even say that my not bandwagoning Grape was the reason you found it suspicious in the first place.
Also if you dont want to be talked about maybe post less?
Like i require/desire attention and post well less than you in these phaselengths (though iirc more than you in 12-48 hour days)
Idk man youre >20% of the posts in a 19 player game idk why anyone would talk about you...
ya well I can't help it, I have a problem, and the only thing stopping me from posting now is the substantial amount of work I need to finish off to close out my last semester of college
The problem stems from my energy, as well as going back and forth between two different site metas, and that I have a tendency to forgot things I want to say unless I write them as they come up
Sorry, I didn't see this for some reason.
I've leaned towards town this entire game, but part of me's worried I could just be giving him a pass. I'm aware his manner of posting is scummy. It's really not at all different from how I've seen him play as town though. I don't like that I have to give him passes for his play, but lynching him for something NAI doesn't sit well with me. There are two things that make me mainly lean him towards being town - the vocabulary used in his commentary (it's bold), and his earlier comment on wanting to appoint D_V for the Iron Throne so that he could clear his alignment (even though he misunderstood how the mechanic worked, it struck me as an excessive thought if it came from scum). Him also repeatedly not understanding how the Iron Throne mechanic works may also suggest he's working independently (not knowing who his allies are).
Objectively speaking, Shinichi is LHF. So rather than me strongly townreading him, it's for that I'm most hesitant in lynching him.
I’ve got nothing. The needle isn’t moving for me yet. I don’t like how Last shaded me for not answering their question, then ignored it when I did. Same for Re minus the shade. I feel like scum would’ve pushed it more though.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. If you asked me a question and I didn't answer it, it's because I missed it, skimmed it, forgot about it, one of those. If it still requires a response, I'll give it one.
If you mean when I asked you about LnGrrrR, technically I didn't need to. I forgot you already gave your thoughts on him before I asked. I asked specifically because last game, you gave a meta read on LnGrrrR and accurately called him out as scum. It may have been informative or at least helpful to see your take on him this game. You townread him for mechanical reasons for the most part though.
Iirc, I’m townleaning him based on what he isn’t doing this game compared to DITF and Low Fantasy (where we scummed together). I don’t think I had a mechanical reason for him?
@Tubba
I haven't double checked, but I think a main reason for your read of him is his claim, with the reasoning that scum wouldn't provide that info since it's attention-drawing (you agreed with Sir Chris). If I forgot that it was also a meta read for you, then depending on your conclusion, it'd either be something I could sheep or look back at with more flips at hand. It'd have be more telling had you arrived at the conclusion LnGrrrR was scum, not town, or if you had a neutral read on him.
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. You said to tom that your thing about me being wrong is a minor deal to you. I would say the evidence says otherwise. It feels like a big deal to me and I'm really not particullary interested in your justifications for it anymore.
Quote from 981 »
Honestly Grape telling me I'm wrong on Shinichi with little to no evidence reinforces that I'm right because the majority of the disagreements where I scum read someone and he defends them I'm right.
Grape refers to 981 but apparently can't read 981.
That doesn't prove what you're trying to prove. What makes it a appear a big deal isn't the word choices, it's your focus and attention. That's why I didn't care about your justifications. Regardless of what words you are using you are treating it as a big deal.
Anyway I find it rather humorous that you take the time to bash me for having Rod as a town lean while also having talked himself about how the Daykill being relatively verified makes Rod reasonably likely town. As for Rhand I've explained that as much as I'm willing to for now. You can read my replies to KA for reasons vague as they are there.
Its not that you can't have them as town reads, its that you have them as number two and three. Your list is so terrible and your reads are so weak that you have two non content posters as number two and three after 1300 posts. What the hell are you doing if you are town?
Because no has been townie except Vaimes. Your towniest read is Wisp which is a as baffling to me as my reads are to you(and more unsubstantiated than my scum reads fwiw).
This list feels hamfisted.
1053 is in your list because of other people saying it and you're just trying to sheep those reads, but I'd argue that Hunger's pop ins have been more towny than 1053.
That's like the thing you can't accept. I keep hedging on you, because I want to scum read you. Tom's right I should be town reading you, and I know it. And I don't want to.
Things like this.
As for your most pertinent question what makes KJ different to DitF is the fact that he's playing a completely different game. They aren't remotely similar despite KJ still being KJ. And I'd be curious to see what you felt the similarities between the two were.
Is what makes me think you are scum. KJ is near identical to his play in DitF. He hasn't placed a vote(Just like DitF. He's been ineffective(Just like DitF). His posts have little relevance on the game. And if you do what I just did which was to take his ISO from both games and look at them side by side, they look near identical. You literally town read him, because of the peek that game and then danced into the forest with him.
First off wow that shade. Second off none of those are what made him townie in DitF, it was the inquisitiveness and probing questions he was asking. There is also the fact that I can't use that read again of applying advice as town because now he's aware he can generate town reads by doing so. But even more to the point he is doing none of the open minded stuff here and has been largely absent and focused on his own reads and my question about you. And you're just factually wrong. I town read him well before the peak. So maybe try reading the games like you so dearly love telling other people to do. Calling those two games "near identical" makes me wonder what you look at when you read because it must be completely different things.
Here is the thing. In DitF you and I disagreed on basically everything still, however I understood at least why you thought that way. Here it feels like I don't understand like you are just taking positions to take them, and then saying "Its this way, because I say so". Just like this KJ thing, there is nothing backing up that statement from you at all. Just like you claiming you've responded to my other posts, because yeah, you typed words on that appeared on the screen, but they basically amounted to "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU".
Cause what was your response to me. "No you wouldn't be doing that THIS game." And I'm like well I am so tough.
And you say that I'm not being open but you're choosing not to read the posts where I explain the things I wanted to explain. I've explained my Shin read, my RE read, my Rhand read (to some extent), my LnG read (also to some extent), my read on you, my read on Wisp, my read on KA. I did sheep 1053nm so you got that one right but idk. I'm not this black box you're trying to make me out to be.
Tom: How many scum do you think in that group doing the voting? What about being voted?
Iirc im still voting grape because his entire wagon seemed townie
Dont remember wagons atm but i remember thinking there was prolly scum on shin regardless of his alignment
My gut says theres 2 or more in the nonvoters/offwagon but again, no real strong reads here...
After "vaimes feels like town vaimes" and "lngrr claimed like he had no inside info" (which themselves are pretty far from locks) my next strongest read is "1053 seemed towny like 1000 posts ago" or "sure this could be town kami" and none of those are even scumreads
Careful DV's going to scum read you for that. Apparently there are tons of strong town reads to be had making having a low content poster like LnG, KA, or 1053 anywhere near the top a grave offense.
Careful DV's going to scum read you for that. Apparently there are tons of strong town reads to be had making having a low content poster like LnG, KA, or 1053 anywhere near the top a grave offense.
That doesn't prove what you're trying to prove. What makes it a appear a big deal isn't the word choices, it's your focus and attention. That's why I didn't care about your justifications. Regardless of what words you are using you are treating it as a big deal.
I'm really not though.
You're just not that big of a deal to me hate to break it to you.
You are going lalalal. And you keep ignoring that point. You can die now. There is no way that town Grape pulls this sort of terrible play.
That doesn't prove what you're trying to prove. What makes it a appear a big deal isn't the word choices, it's your focus and attention. That's why I didn't care about your justifications. Regardless of what words you are using you are treating it as a big deal.
I'm really not though.
You're just not that big of a deal to me hate to break it to you.
You are going lalalal. And you keep ignoring that point. You can die now. There is no way that town Grape pulls this sort of terrible play.
So why have you talked about pretty much nothing else for the last 72 hours?
And I keep attempting to address the point of lalalalala by saying I have explained things but you keep ignoring those sections of posts. So I don't know. You seem to be more interested in shading me than figuring me out. Like I still don't know what you're seeing in KJ between these two games. "Ineffective" isn't something you can look for. I disagree in both instances that his posts in either game are irrelevant to the game. So like I find it hard to see how you're saying those two games are the same.
I'm not even sure what I'm supposedly ignoring other than you telling me that the initial mindset slip isn't a mindset slip because it totally makes sense regardless of my alignment. When you accused me of being "Lalalaa can't hear you" about KJ I was asking you a question. You seemed to already decide I wasn't interested in the answer to take my asking a question asking what you saw that was similar between the two as ignoring you.
Anyway are you accusing me of reading KJ over nothing in DitF or being different here because you could follow my reads in DitF? Seems to be both, but that doesn't seem right.
That doesn't prove what you're trying to prove. What makes it a appear a big deal isn't the word choices, it's your focus and attention. That's why I didn't care about your justifications. Regardless of what words you are using you are treating it as a big deal.
I'm really not though.
You're just not that big of a deal to me hate to break it to you.
You are going lalalal. And you keep ignoring that point. You can die now. There is no way that town Grape pulls this sort of terrible play.
So why have you talked about pretty much nothing else for the last 72 hours?
And I keep attempting to address the point of lalalalala by saying I have explained things but you keep ignoring those sections of posts. So I don't know. You seem to be more interested in shading me than figuring me out. Like I still don't know what you're seeing in KJ between these two games. "Ineffective" isn't something you can look for. I disagree in both instances that his posts in either game are irrelevant to the game. So like I find it hard to see how you're saying those two games are the same.
I'm not even sure what I'm supposedly ignoring other than you telling me that the initial mindset slip isn't a mindset slip because it totally makes sense regardless of my alignment. When you accused me of being "Lalalaa can't hear you" about KJ I was asking you a question. You seemed to already decide I wasn't interested in the answer to take my asking a question asking what you saw that was similar between the two as ignoring you.
Anyway are you accusing me of reading KJ over nothing in DitF or being different here because you could follow my reads in DitF? Seems to be both, but that doesn't seem right.
What the hell else is going on to talk about? You've made me talk about this with you. I'm really not that interested in talking about this.
The fact is I am being a jerk about this. And you are being incredibly whiny about it. So, much that you tried to make a gross ass read of "You wouldn't do that in this game", because you were straight up saying that because I'm on probation I wouldn't say that. Well guess what I have and guess what I did, and guess what I'm going to continue.
Your entire argument was that. That was your response for me. Let me quote it back for you.
Anyway maybe you're such an arrogant tosser that you did ignore what you think I am in my zeal to discredit and abuse me. But I don't believe you'd that this game.
The italics don't show up for some reason, but Grape does highlight this in italics.
You have attempted to smear me by attaching me to Rod, you've basically made one push on to me that amounts to one verbiage thing, that I entirely agree I did and I've explained why, and you've ignored those explanations, because you were never interested in those explanations.
Anyways, moving on because I think only scum grape makes such a disgusting push on me that's basically a whole lot of OOG push. If you are town then screw you, because how dare you hold it against me that I'm trying to change things. If you are scum I still thinks its disgusting, but hey what ever you need to do to win right?
1. KamikazeArchon
Votes: Grape > Shinichi
2. Vaimes
Votes : SirChris > Last > Unvote > DV > Grape > Shinichi > Tom > Shinichi > Grape
3. Sir Chris
Votes: KJ > Shinichi
4. Cantripmancer
Votes: Last > Unvote >
5. Shinichi
6. Rhand
Votes: Lngr > HR > Tom
7. Hunger
HR > Unvote
8. Grapefruit21
Votes: Coballt > RE > LNG > Unvote > RE > Last > DV
9. Tubba Fett
10. LnGrrrR
Votes: Rhand > HR > Grape >
11. Coballt/GJ
12. Highroller
Votes: Last > LNGR > Last > Shinichi > Last > Shinichi
Literally anything else? Explain your Wisp read, make a more thorough Shin case. Try making a tom case. Do a deep dive comparing KJ between the two games to try and prove he's town. You don't have to keep talking to me. I'm continuing to push you because from my POV it looks like you're incriminating yourself more and more.
Anyway if you think may case is as simple as 1 verbiage slip then I don't know what to tell you. Clearly you are trying to make the case that the word "reinforces" is both a minor thing and something you'd say regardless of my alignment. I agree with the first but think that you deciding to rumble over it and defend it repeatedly is more important than the actual wording. As for the second I just don't get how you think that my being against you gives you any kind of minor reinforcement if you think I'm scum. I know you keep saying it does but not one of your explanations has made sense to me. My having an agenda would mean that my bad/wrongness is irrelevant. My having an agenda would make it wine as to whether I was powerwolfing or white knighting. I don't understand how it could make you feel better about the push.
Anyway onto the unpleasant part. You're right that I was whiny. You're right that I made an OoG read that was out of line. I'm sorry.
@Tom
how about you get off that fence you are so happily sitting on...
you are playing a very neutral game here, more obnoxiously than games I've been physically in with you
Idk what it means yet, but all I know is that I haven't been a fan of your half-baked stances this game
at this point Grape is just gaslighting DV and the sliver of a town read I had, is fading rapidly
if it isn't me or shin being discussed, then it's Grape and DV, it's so pointless
kinda in their own category since i see things for and against them: [tom, Rhand]
having a hard time reading and i'm pretty sure it's due to lack of content but i don't really know how i'm going to fix this: [Kami, Tubba, GJ]
self-resolving: [Rodemy]
Wisp's read on Rhand and Kami feels a bit TMI-y. And I'm thinking I might have been wrong to put all three of D_V, Highroller, and Sir Chris as town. Could be one scum in there.
There is also one thing that could point to a town!Rhand. In the beginning, he claimed that he was alone in his faction and would have liked D_V to provide him with the recruitment shot. If D_V and Rhand are unaligned and do not know each other's abilities - I think scum!Rhand wouldn't want to be added to another faction. If I were him, the idea of having to do additional work through pretending to solve by posting in the equivalent of a neighbor chat just seems unappealing. This is really weak though, and I'd much prefer it if he was town, for him to prove it through more solid reads.
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Ok, I'm here, working on catching up, no promises I will finish tonight because I'm really tired, but hopefully by tomorrow night at the latest. Anyone want to give me a summary of current events? Just from a skim of this page...3-way slapfight between Wisp/DV/Grape? With a dash of lolTom?
DV, who's the towniest player in the game besides yourself? Why, in 20 words or less.
Tom, you seem adrift; what would help you find your footing?
Grape, if you could vig any one player for game reasons (not because you're irked by them), who would it be, and why in 20 words or less?
Wisp, what did you see in 1385 (I'm guessing) that made you vote Grape?
or we can fail up until I get picked again if that somehow makes you feel better
but if cantrip or LnG are the leaders this will mission will surely fail if it passes, which means we have to win this on mission 5
Why do I trust killjoy, why do i trust Riku? I cant really give you an answer, except that they have given me more that I actually believe, over Grr or Cantrip
kinda in their own category since i see things for and against them: [tom, Rhand]
having a hard time reading and i'm pretty sure it's due to lack of content but i don't really know how i'm going to fix this: [Kami, Tubba, GJ]
self-resolving: [Rodemy]
Wisp's read on Rhand and Kami feels a bit TMI-y. And I'm thinking I might have been wrong to put all three of D_V, Highroller, and Sir Chris as town. Could be one scum in there.
There is also one thing that could point to a town!Rhand. In the beginning, he claimed that he was alone in his faction and would have liked D_V to provide him with the recruitment shot. If D_V and Rhand are unaligned and do not know each other's abilities - I think scum!Rhand wouldn't want to be added to another faction. If I were him, the idea of having to do additional work through pretending to solve by posting in the equivalent of a neighbor chat just seems unappealing. This is really weak though, and I'd much prefer it if he was town, for him to prove it through more solid reads.
nah my reads are just gut reads that I trust
VOTE ME, TRY TO LYNCH ME, I BLOODY DARE YOU
Grape can still be town, but I can't overlook the way he's antagonizing DV
You didn't have to play with this same Grape in DiTF where if not for Killjoy's n0 green check on him he would have been buried day 1, ******* buried
for once, I would like to god damn work with you RE, but its obvious that can never happen since we both play the game differently, so just stay out of my way
at this point unless we get a CFD its either Grape, Shin, or maybe me, and if I get lynched day 1, you are all mad
and shin gets lynched over my dead body
so that leaves Grape
at this point Grape is just gaslighting DV and the sliver of a town read I had, is fading rapidly
if it isn't me or shin being discussed, then it's Grape and DV, it's so pointless
You handwaved the entirety of Highroller/Rhand. You're overlooking what Grape has pointed out against D_V. And why the **** are you complaining about it when you are doing NOTHING to help? Dude, that's scummy AF. "Oh, it's just the same people fighting.. It's all so hopeless.." Like you don't even seem that unhappy about it. Congrats, you've commented on the gamestate? You've given yourself an excuse to do nothing if you blame others for discussion you personally consider unproductive.
And D_V's been just as antagonistic as Grape if not more. So that's just more handwaving.
Do we have the same PoE? What is yours? And remind me, when and why did you start townreading me?
~~
On a sidenote, Cantrip seems really disconnected with the current events. Him acknowledging this isn't AI. He wanted Shinichi dead, last I checked. Now that Grape has developed as a competing wagon, his focus should be there as well.
Infrequent wallposting is scummy, no matter how nicely-written those walls are. Constantly playing catch-up is as well. The struggle so far this game isn't finding scum, it's when to stop giving people freebies for being invisible.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
And maybe I just solve the game differently, but I can't really imagine those questions being helpful. In the case of the questions directed at D_V and Grape, it's literally a fancier way of asking them for their top reads, which is something that could be found if he actually read the thread! And all of them are pretty shallow questions, in the end. So busywork.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
I think im always, as wisp puts it, obnoxiously neutral. And the combination of having extra ways to win and just... weak reads is compounding it.
I dont think im adrift though. Looking at playerlist I think im in a fine place.
Ive got 7 people i dont currently want dead. Not quite half. (Kami/vaimes/cantrip/shin/lngrr/hr/1053)
If you add the "alright i guess not day 1" (chris/hunger/rod/re) im down to 7 candidates
Rhand/grape/tubba/johnny/last/kj/dv
Im aggressively null on rhand/tubba/johnny/kj
Grape/dv has a moderate to decent chance to contain a wolf
Last is scummy
Uh vaimes
lngrr/1053/cantrip
kami/hr/shin
re/hunger
rhand/kj
grape/dv/chris/last
Moving chris down to my read instead of my likelihood of lynching him day 1
Removing rod/gj/tubba because literal nothing
No one in orange or red, separating positive from negative nulls (dark amd light gray) maybe those are reads
Do you disagree with that statement?
Think im scum with last or Shin?
But sure clearly keep an eye on me haven't really done anything AI yet
Puking daughter, car in the shop, overworked, have a fever and sore throat myself...hopefully the weekend calms things down.
Either it's nothing, or I'll be able to explain it eventually. It's a weird conclusion to come to. Like, it doesn't not make sense, but it's forceful? Shallow? Malicious?
Based on your frequent voting of Last and Shin (iirc), I don't think you're aligned with both of them, and maybe at most one of them.
Without getting into this, you are playing both sides. Its an unfortunate way that you solve the game as town. However, you pushing me at all is making me sort of have hesitations about you being town, since I'd need to really look but I feel that you largely play the margins with me only when you are scum. However, maybe its just when I play my instant town read games you are town.
I'm going to build off of that RE term. "Shallow" its shallow but its also "Suggestive". And I don't mean sexually. I mean, your suggesting ideas, but not really concrete on anything. Its just Wimpy? Its like you're sort of floating ideas out and seeing if anyone else takes up the mantle. I've seen you do this in Ghostbusters pretty effectively, I'm unsure if I've seen you do this as town.
vote tom
This is a whole lot of unfounded shade on multiple players.
Idk i dont remember having this weak of reads in a long time
I shaded no one this is a summary post of other people's pushes but I don't think mentioning 6 players (including the 3 major wagons of the day) and saying there's scum in there would even count as shade?
Anyway only name in there im scumreading rn is last I'm unsure on DV/grape after this whole thing they're doing and im townreading shin and kami...
RE exists as well I guess
I’ve got nothing. The needle isn’t moving for me yet. I don’t like how Last shaded me for not answering their question, then ignored it when I did. Same for Re minus the shade. I feel like scum would’ve pushed it more though.
Shin/Last seem like a dichotomy of mostly Last’s creation, and the amount of thread taken up with whatever weird circular logic dance thing they have going on is confusing and makes it difficult to literally read. As far as consistency and tone go, I’m leaning Last over Shin. It’s a vibe, like they were all over the place early and now it’s like they’re looking for a place to pounce. Not a confident read at all though.
Grape feels off to me as well. I see the town clearing vs. scum hunting aspect, but Rod is an easy one, Rhand is a weird one, and I agree with D_v about 1053 being a consensus one.
But I have no real strong reads right now either so, glass houses, stones and all that.
Would cross my fingers and lynch Last, Grape and distant third Shinichi.
I've leaned towards town this entire game, but part of me's worried I could just be giving him a pass. I'm aware his manner of posting is scummy. It's really not at all different from how I've seen him play as town though. I don't like that I have to give him passes for his play, but lynching him for something NAI doesn't sit well with me. There are two things that make me mainly lean him towards being town - the vocabulary used in his commentary (it's bold), and his earlier comment on wanting to appoint D_V for the Iron Throne so that he could clear his alignment (even though he misunderstood how the mechanic worked, it struck me as an excessive thought if it came from scum). Him also repeatedly not understanding how the Iron Throne mechanic works may also suggest he's working independently (not knowing who his allies are).
Objectively speaking, Shinichi is LHF. So rather than me strongly townreading him, it's for that I'm most hesitant in lynching him. I'm not sure what you're talking about. If you asked me a question and I didn't answer it, it's because I missed it, skimmed it, forgot about it, one of those. If it still requires a response, I'll give it one.
If you mean when I asked you about LnGrrrR, technically I didn't need to. I forgot you already gave your thoughts on him before I asked. I asked specifically because last game, you gave a meta read on LnGrrrR and accurately called him out as scum. It may have been informative or at least helpful to see your take on him this game. You townread him for mechanical reasons for the most part though.
Thinking out loud?
See whod respond?
Like everything i do has a purpose but that doesnt mean i have any plan for what that purpose is
Also the 6th was you not RE
Same read though: idk.
Id like to see what comes of your highroller read (is the answer "nah ive moved on to tom"?) and id like to see RE come to, yknow, A Conclusion...
Rhand: Talk me through Highroller. Is it just "That post pinged me." Or were there things leading up to it?
Like, baseline this is scummy but it doesnt feel like it means much for him and really its whatever
Iirc im still voting grape because his entire wagon seemed townie
Dont remember wagons atm but i remember thinking there was prolly scum on shin regardless of his alignment
My gut says theres 2 or more in the nonvoters/offwagon but again, no real strong reads here...
After "vaimes feels like town vaimes" and "lngrr claimed like he had no inside info" (which themselves are pretty far from locks) my next strongest read is "1053 seemed towny like 1000 posts ago" or "sure this could be town kami" and none of those are even scumreads
Like i require/desire attention and post well less than you in these phaselengths (though iirc more than you in 12-48 hour days)
Idk man youre >20% of the posts in a 19 player game idk why anyone would talk about you...
Oh, this is not me being defensive, Rhand. This is me highlighting an obvious logical error in your posts and asking you to justify how this is even possible.
Imagine if I said, "I'm voting Rhand. My rationale for this is that Rhand seems to only post on even number posts!" and someone asked me what made me suspicious of you, and I said, "Here, post number 7 is the one that pinged me!"
Wouldn't that be weird? It'd be like, really, Highroller? You voted someone because he posts on even numbers, and then you say the post that made you suspicious is one in which he posts on an odd number - y'know, the exact opposite of the thing you're accusing him of? Isn't that strange?
And yet here you are doing the exact same thing. You accuse me of bandwagoning, and then when people ask for your rationale, you point to a post in I'm not only doing the opposite of bandwagoning, but also you even say that my not bandwagoning Grape was the reason you found it suspicious in the first place.
So what's going on here, Rhand?
The problem stems from my energy, as well as going back and forth between two different site metas, and that I have a tendency to forgot things I want to say unless I write them as they come up
Iirc, I’m townleaning him based on what he isn’t doing this game compared to DITF and Low Fantasy (where we scummed together). I don’t think I had a mechanical reason for him?
I haven't double checked, but I think a main reason for your read of him is his claim, with the reasoning that scum wouldn't provide that info since it's attention-drawing (you agreed with Sir Chris). If I forgot that it was also a meta read for you, then depending on your conclusion, it'd either be something I could sheep or look back at with more flips at hand. It'd have be more telling had you arrived at the conclusion LnGrrrR was scum, not town, or if you had a neutral read on him.
That doesn't prove what you're trying to prove. What makes it a appear a big deal isn't the word choices, it's your focus and attention. That's why I didn't care about your justifications. Regardless of what words you are using you are treating it as a big deal.
Because no has been townie except Vaimes. Your towniest read is Wisp which is a as baffling to me as my reads are to you(and more unsubstantiated than my scum reads fwiw).
First off wow that shade. Second off none of those are what made him townie in DitF, it was the inquisitiveness and probing questions he was asking. There is also the fact that I can't use that read again of applying advice as town because now he's aware he can generate town reads by doing so. But even more to the point he is doing none of the open minded stuff here and has been largely absent and focused on his own reads and my question about you. And you're just factually wrong. I town read him well before the peak. So maybe try reading the games like you so dearly love telling other people to do. Calling those two games "near identical" makes me wonder what you look at when you read because it must be completely different things.
And you say that I'm not being open but you're choosing not to read the posts where I explain the things I wanted to explain. I've explained my Shin read, my RE read, my Rhand read (to some extent), my LnG read (also to some extent), my read on you, my read on Wisp, my read on KA. I did sheep 1053nm so you got that one right but idk. I'm not this black box you're trying to make me out to be.
Careful DV's going to scum read you for that. Apparently there are tons of strong town reads to be had making having a low content poster like LnG, KA, or 1053 anywhere near the top a grave offense.
LOL Vote Grape
Vaguely townish.
@DV I'm allowed to be snarky too.
vote dv
I'm really not though.
You're just not that big of a deal to me hate to break it to you.
You are going lalalal. And you keep ignoring that point. You can die now. There is no way that town Grape pulls this sort of terrible play.
So why have you talked about pretty much nothing else for the last 72 hours?
And I keep attempting to address the point of lalalalala by saying I have explained things but you keep ignoring those sections of posts. So I don't know. You seem to be more interested in shading me than figuring me out. Like I still don't know what you're seeing in KJ between these two games. "Ineffective" isn't something you can look for. I disagree in both instances that his posts in either game are irrelevant to the game. So like I find it hard to see how you're saying those two games are the same.
I'm not even sure what I'm supposedly ignoring other than you telling me that the initial mindset slip isn't a mindset slip because it totally makes sense regardless of my alignment. When you accused me of being "Lalalaa can't hear you" about KJ I was asking you a question. You seemed to already decide I wasn't interested in the answer to take my asking a question asking what you saw that was similar between the two as ignoring you.
Anyway are you accusing me of reading KJ over nothing in DitF or being different here because you could follow my reads in DitF? Seems to be both, but that doesn't seem right.
What the hell else is going on to talk about? You've made me talk about this with you. I'm really not that interested in talking about this.
The fact is I am being a jerk about this. And you are being incredibly whiny about it. So, much that you tried to make a gross ass read of "You wouldn't do that in this game", because you were straight up saying that because I'm on probation I wouldn't say that. Well guess what I have and guess what I did, and guess what I'm going to continue.
Your entire argument was that. That was your response for me. Let me quote it back for you.
The italics don't show up for some reason, but Grape does highlight this in italics.
You have attempted to smear me by attaching me to Rod, you've basically made one push on to me that amounts to one verbiage thing, that I entirely agree I did and I've explained why, and you've ignored those explanations, because you were never interested in those explanations.
Anyways, moving on because I think only scum grape makes such a disgusting push on me that's basically a whole lot of OOG push. If you are town then screw you, because how dare you hold it against me that I'm trying to change things. If you are scum I still thinks its disgusting, but hey what ever you need to do to win right?
Votes: Grape > Shinichi
2. Vaimes
Votes : SirChris > Last > Unvote > DV > Grape > Shinichi > Tom > Shinichi > Grape
3. Sir Chris
Votes: KJ > Shinichi
4. Cantripmancer
Votes: Last > Unvote >
5. Shinichi
6. Rhand
Votes: Lngr > HR > Tom
7. Hunger
HR > Unvote
8. Grapefruit21
Votes: Coballt > RE > LNG > Unvote > RE > Last > DV
9. Tubba Fett
10. LnGrrrR
Votes: Rhand > HR > Grape >
11. Coballt/GJ
12. Highroller
Votes: Last > LNGR > Last > Shinichi > Last > Shinichi
13. Rodemy
Votes : SirChris > Unvote > HR > Shinichi
14. RE1031
Votes: Grapefruit > Last > Unvote >
15. 1053nm
Grapefruit > Tried to unvote
16. Lastwhisper
Votes: Lngr > Shinichi > Unvote > Grape > Shinichi > Unvote > Lngr > Hunger
17. Killjoy(Same faction with Tom)
Votes: RE > Shinichi > Unvote
19. Tomsloger(Probably Stark Opening Quote)
Votes : Shinichi > Wisp > Shin > Wisp > Grape > DV
I'll be back in three days with a decision.
Anyway if you think may case is as simple as 1 verbiage slip then I don't know what to tell you. Clearly you are trying to make the case that the word "reinforces" is both a minor thing and something you'd say regardless of my alignment. I agree with the first but think that you deciding to rumble over it and defend it repeatedly is more important than the actual wording. As for the second I just don't get how you think that my being against you gives you any kind of minor reinforcement if you think I'm scum. I know you keep saying it does but not one of your explanations has made sense to me. My having an agenda would mean that my bad/wrongness is irrelevant. My having an agenda would make it wine as to whether I was powerwolfing or white knighting. I don't understand how it could make you feel better about the push.
Anyway onto the unpleasant part. You're right that I was whiny. You're right that I made an OoG read that was out of line. I'm sorry.
Grape: continues acting the ~same
Also DV: *
gets tiltedtilts himself and votes grape*Idk i dont think i want to kill either today anymore
And also im pretty sure i want to kill both
unvote
how about you get off that fence you are so happily sitting on...
you are playing a very neutral game here, more obnoxiously than games I've been physically in with you
Idk what it means yet, but all I know is that I haven't been a fan of your half-baked stances this game
if it isn't me or shin being discussed, then it's Grape and DV, it's so pointless
I can't ignore this.
I don't want to lynch Grape.
actually scummy: [1053, Wisp]
circumstantially scummy: [Hunger, Cantrip]
kinda in their own category since i see things for and against them: [tom, Rhand]
having a hard time reading and i'm pretty sure it's due to lack of content but i don't really know how i'm going to fix this: [Kami, Tubba, GJ]
self-resolving: [Rodemy]
Wisp's read on Rhand and Kami feels a bit TMI-y. And I'm thinking I might have been wrong to put all three of D_V, Highroller, and Sir Chris as town. Could be one scum in there.
There is also one thing that could point to a town!Rhand. In the beginning, he claimed that he was alone in his faction and would have liked D_V to provide him with the recruitment shot. If D_V and Rhand are unaligned and do not know each other's abilities - I think scum!Rhand wouldn't want to be added to another faction. If I were him, the idea of having to do additional work through pretending to solve by posting in the equivalent of a neighbor chat just seems unappealing. This is really weak though, and I'd much prefer it if he was town, for him to prove it through more solid reads.
DV, who's the towniest player in the game besides yourself? Why, in 20 words or less.
Tom, you seem adrift; what would help you find your footing?
Grape, if you could vig any one player for game reasons (not because you're irked by them), who would it be, and why in 20 words or less?
Wisp, what did you see in 1385 (I'm guessing) that made you vote Grape?
or we can fail up until I get picked again if that somehow makes you feel better
but if cantrip or LnG are the leaders this will mission will surely fail if it passes, which means we have to win this on mission 5
Why do I trust killjoy, why do i trust Riku? I cant really give you an answer, except that they have given me more that I actually believe, over Grr or Cantrip
VOTE ME, TRY TO LYNCH ME, I BLOODY DARE YOU
Grape can still be town, but I can't overlook the way he's antagonizing DV
You didn't have to play with this same Grape in DiTF where if not for Killjoy's n0 green check on him he would have been buried day 1, ******* buried
for once, I would like to god damn work with you RE, but its obvious that can never happen since we both play the game differently, so just stay out of my way
and shin gets lynched over my dead body
so that leaves Grape
And D_V's been just as antagonistic as Grape if not more. So that's just more handwaving.
Do we have the same PoE? What is yours? And remind me, when and why did you start townreading me?
~~
On a sidenote, Cantrip seems really disconnected with the current events. Him acknowledging this isn't AI. He wanted Shinichi dead, last I checked. Now that Grape has developed as a competing wagon, his focus should be there as well.
Infrequent wallposting is scummy, no matter how nicely-written those walls are. Constantly playing catch-up is as well. The struggle so far this game isn't finding scum, it's when to stop giving people freebies for being invisible.
I dont think im adrift though. Looking at playerlist I think im in a fine place.
Ive got 7 people i dont currently want dead. Not quite half. (Kami/vaimes/cantrip/shin/lngrr/hr/1053)
If you add the "alright i guess not day 1" (chris/hunger/rod/re) im down to 7 candidates
Rhand/grape/tubba/johnny/last/kj/dv
Im aggressively null on rhand/tubba/johnny/kj
Grape/dv has a moderate to decent chance to contain a wolf
Last is scummy
Uh
vaimes
lngrr/1053/cantrip
kami/hr/shin
re/hunger
rhand/kj
grape/dv/chris/last
Moving chris down to my read instead of my likelihood of lynching him day 1
Removing rod/gj/tubba because literal nothing
No one in orange or red, separating positive from negative nulls (dark amd light gray) maybe those are reads