Tom pretty much hit all of the scum except one, and Chris justified his Lynch by saying, "you cant just repeat I am obvious town"...
Both Chris and Tom, who respectively saved the game from different angles, were both Lynch, not killed, pretty much losing us the game... How the **** is that for ironic
Oh sorry after the team game I decided I to not value your opinion on Shinichi for a while.
same tbh
Yeah...
But my read was right you goober and you made us lose that game with your horrible play. You basically lynched Shinichi due to your dislike of him that game. You even tried Cyber Bullying him that game. But you do you mate.
i don't dislike him I just dont get him at all
He's frustrating
You literally wrote that you were laughing about him in your team discord. If that wasn't an overt attempt to make him feel bad, I don't know what the purpose of that was.
I know you don't get him. I'm not sure I get him either. However, Last hosted a game on MAL where I lasered in on Shinichi being scum really quickly, he felt different than the team game. It feels similar to me here. IE not the team game, and the scum Shinichi I caught.
On top of that his Rod read feels contrive, and scummy. His one defender Grape is using a hit of hitting town which means nothing, and Grape is wrong 9 times out of 10 with these arguments with me.
i mean, there wasn't a purpose it was just true. I remember you getting pissed about me that game but I don't remember why i dont care about this.
Got it. [Unknown alignment]Dv thinks shin is mafia by meta.
Noted.
Tom pretty much hit all of the scum except one, and Chris justified his Lynch by saying, "you cant just repeat I am obvious town"...
Both Chris and Tom, who respectively saved the game from different angles, were both Lynch, not killed, pretty much losing us the game... How the **** is that for ironic
All this shade is just weird
its super weird
Idk i dont have a need to be better than chris or anyone really but i dont like being belittled when i dont deserve it
Like if you wanna talk ***** there was a mash when i literally townread 10 wolves
Also I would like to point out I am a man of peace with just a town PM and a dream. I see there is a lot of history with Shin and others again I dont know the guy just he doesnt smell town. Often my fresh perspective can be useful when meta gets stale.
Also Wisp why do you describe me like I am a bird of prey?
I've had first hand experience with this... Many many times, and trust me, I am not trying to shade you, I'm still hedging on shin, it's just something I noticed, pertaining specifically to Amrock's Discord Mafia, where you refused to re-evaluate Chelsea, when she hadn't done anything to be a lock town read.
In fairness that is the game that made me take like a 2 week break from mafia and focus on more lengthy games because I realized I wasn't very good at shorter game phrases anymore.
OK so let's get me and Tom death in the family out of the way right now. You can agree, disagree, whatever.
Two really important things.
I did not lynch Tom. Full stop. The day Tom was lynched I had him as my top scum suspect, yes admittedly, but I had always said I was going to re-read the game and see what I could find. I was not afforded this opportunity. I did not vote that man that day.
Secondly, the thing I remember most about Tom and perhaps this is unfair is two hellish fights with him over members of town, not his eventual scum reads. Osi was a brutal day 2 battle that even after I agreed to murder anak he kept pressing for Osi desite anak being a scum read of his. Osi, Osi, Osi. He did not let up on Osi until Osi was modkilled (that modkill, btw, probably cost town the game as it changed the lynch dynamics when my no kill had put it back into town's favor) and that was a brutal fight to save Osi from Tom who kept calling me back for that read.
Secondly I went to bat for Vezok for like two days, again to the brink of -1 and again Tom was saying "you are wrong, he has to be scum, he has to be" and he can massage that after the fact with "well my setup gaming was right" but really if your setup game is 1 one use JK from being completely wrong you weren't that right. I could see town having a tiny bit more power that game. They didn't, but it wasn't bulletproof logic and he trained Vezok for like two straight days.
I am maybe being unfair. That's OK, I am not trying to be cruel but for my end...for my effort...it was PAINFUL dealing with Tom in that game as I dragged Vezok and Osi on my back. Me seeing Vezok night killed rather than lynched was a mark of honor for me.
Also the day Lngr died Tom didn't want to lynch Lngr, but KA (who was town) I may be remember that wrong? Just saying there.
Like maybe this is super harsh and unfair, but I feel like in the heat of the moment Tom did a lot to work against the town. Like game is brutal for town if Osi/Vezok are lynched like Tom was really insistent on.
I am not trying to be a dick I really just think that Tom tunneled town SUPER hard for like 2-3 days and it was painful to watch, even if he had some correct scum reads.
Also Rod played a good game. Despite me thinking he was scum from the get and then being told it was town Rod. Last time I trust another person ever here for awhile.
SPEAKING OF THAT. Actually.
I am 1/1 since my return (#worldrecord) at early reading scum. LET'S SEE IF IT'S 2/2, GENTS.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Wisp is pretty obviously scum from my perspective. Just wanted to say that. I'll do my best to properly case him before the end of this day (like, a full on a case), but a large basis for my read on him is tonal, which is something I almost never use barring several players who I can tonally read (generally I dislike tone). So that'll be tough. And if I'm wrong, oops. I think pushing one of the top posters day 1 may be a bad idea if I were to play by the book, but I'll still be spreading my attention to everyone else.
Grape's a bit tougher. I can't shake the feeling I have about him, but maybe it's about time I try looking at this game mechanically, with regards to the solo/no faction claims. Similar to Wisp, though, it may be an ineffective move to push him today. I'm far more curious about 1053's vote on him at this time. For someone unfamiliar playing in a forum setting, they've focused a lot on the mechanical aspect of the game as opposed to behavioral analysis.
[Vaimes, D_V, Shinichi] -> Town.
[Sir Chris, Highroller] -> Town, but I'll need to reread to be sure.
[Tubba, Kami, Hunger, Rhand, GJ, Rodemy] -> People with posts (?)
[tom, Cantrip, LnGrrrR] -> People with more (?) posts
[Grape, KJ] -> I have an eye on them.
[Wisp, 1053] -> Maybe scum.
Think I've exhausted what I can from Grape and Wisp from today. Will focus on the others now. After I do more fun things.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
I'm far more curious about 1053's vote on him at this time. For someone unfamiliar playing in a forum setting, they've focused a lot on the mechanical aspect of the game as opposed to behavioral analysis.
On a second reread, this may not make much sense.
What I mean is, if they're someone used to reading faces or the like - I don't think mechanics will be their strong suit (though correct me if I'm wrong), which has been their most significant contribution to this game so far.
Their read on Grape also doesn't make much sense to me. I have my own reasons for sussing him, but I'm not seeing what 1053's read is based on in Grape's posts.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
*checks role pm*
Nope, still town, at this point you are just being obnoxious, you are a very mechanical player, so don't even bother stating you have a tonal read on me b/c we both know you are lacking in that department. Also from my perspective your tunnel makes it much much harder to work with you if you are town...
I like your last line though, the one where you should focus on other things, that's smart because it's better for both our win-cons if you are town as well. You are very prone to tunneling and the outcome is never in your favor, usually
*checks role pm*
Nope, still town, at this point you are just being obnoxious, you are a very mechanical player, so don't even bother stating you have a tonal read on me b/c we both know you are lacking in that department. Also from my perspective your tunnel makes it much much harder to work with you if you are town...
I like your last line though, the one where you should focus on other things, that's smart because it's better for both our win-cons if you are town as well. You are very prone to tunneling and the outcome is never in your favor, usually
Really? I'm terrible at mechanics. I read primarily off gut. Tone falls into that category but the fact is most people don't know how to read off tone because they don't use it alongside meta, which is how it should be used.
Your last line is far more applicable to yourself.
Also, I'm sure I'd be obnoxious to you regardless of your alignment.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
@RE
what about my last line?
I recall you saying you worked better with mechanics, forgive me if I am mistaken?
Also, I'm sure I'd be obnoxious to you regardless of your alignment.
sigh...
>I'm prone to tunneling and the outcome is almost never in my favor.
Tunnels where I get killed before I have a chance to reevaluate don't work in my favor. Otherwise, they do the job - either I'm hitting scum or I'm sorting town. Rather, getting pissed at people doesn't work in my favor. I'm not pissed at you. (Not really.)
I'm a terrible mechanical player. I have tinfoils that are right time to time regarding mechanics, but they usually tie back to behavior one way or another. I'll use whatever I can grab, but I'll have a hard time scum or townreading anyone if my gut isn't siding with me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
@RE
exactly which game are you referring to?
every lynch is 50/50... what even is your point, if your tunnel gets lynched and flips town, that is not sorting them...
I'm not pissed either, just slightly irked, doubt I get lynched anytime soon, and I'd care less for my lynch if it wasn't for my clean record of never being mislynched on this site, which I would like to keep
@RE
exactly which game are you referring to?
every lynch is 50/50... what even is your point, if your tunnel gets lynched and flips town, that is not sorting them...
I'm not pissed either, just slightly irked, doubt I get lynched anytime soon, and I'd care less for my lynch if it wasn't for my clean record of never being mislynched on this site, which I would like to keep
I see how they react to me. I see how others react to me tunneling. I see how they react to the player I'm tunneling. It's all very informative. Usually.
It's not like I'm not considering two worlds right now. It's just that one of them seems far more likely.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Anyway...
What I'm looking for Chris is some sense you're trying to figure out who shin is as a player.
Sure, he did [these scummy things] we both know that don't mean *****.
I naturally want to kill him and may just be overcorrecting. I can accept that. Shin can absolutely be scum.
But last and grape both look like they know shin is gonna flip town and if one of them is scum i would take that as stronger evidence than anything about shins posting
Rodemy
Cantrip
1053 mostly because if his most recent plan suggestion
Other people I be ok lynching are
GF
Hunger
As for you the read has diminished over time, however i wish you would get your head out of your ass about me being scum.
I do not believe my head is in my ass in any way.
You believe scum Rodemy tried to murder you in broad daylight? Crier? What's the theory?
I don't believe hes crier, I just believe hes a mafia that has a day vig. The crier was Re theory not mine. I've never played with rodemy so I can't get in his head about whys and why not's.
Followup: Why would scum!Rod try to daykill town!you instead of just push for your lynch?
why does town!rodemy claim his role day 1 just to shoot someone that could be town knowing he just put a target on his back?
To introduce info into the thread, to reduce fixation on a player and to prove his ability? Tell me the scum motivation for that usage of his ability now on Shin specifically.
Anyway...
What I'm looking for Chris is some sense you're trying to figure out who shin is as a player.
Sure, he did [these scummy things] we both know that don't mean *****.
I naturally want to kill him and may just be overcorrecting. I can accept that. Shin can absolutely be scum.
But last and grape both look like they know shin is gonna flip town and if one of them is scum i would take that as stronger evidence than anything about shins posting
Ah I am trying to sort out the white noise. But I am surprised you dont get I am doing what you say exactly. I have asked many questions about Shin. To Grape and Wisp
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Anyway...
What I'm looking for Chris is some sense you're trying to figure out who shin is as a player.
Sure, he did [these scummy things] we both know that don't mean *****.
I naturally want to kill him and may just be overcorrecting. I can accept that. Shin can absolutely be scum.
But last and grape both look like they know shin is gonna flip town and if one of them is scum i would take that as stronger evidence than anything about shins posting
IDK Tom I think I have you beat on recent memorable wrongness.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Hi Shin let's chat. Do you still think I am scum? Who are all your red reads right now?
My red reads are:
Rodemy
Cantrip
1053 mostly because if his most recent plan suggestion
Other people I be ok lynching are
GF
Hunger
As for you the read has diminished over time, however i wish you would get your head out of your ass about me being scum.
I do not believe my head is in my ass in any way.
You believe scum Rodemy tried to murder you in broad daylight? Crier? What's the theory?
I don't believe hes crier, I just believe hes a mafia that has a day vig. The crier was Re theory not mine. I've never played with rodemy so I can't get in his head about whys and why not's.
Followup: Why would scum!Rod try to daykill town!you instead of just push for your lynch?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
and Grape is wrong 9 times out of 10 with these arguments with me.
Taking a break from my normally scheduled morning catch up for this. Hey dude. Bro. My man. What are you getting at. Are you just trying to tilt me? Or is this a way for you to catch scum? Because you should realize as I've pointed out this isn't true. We had 3 games. I looked at them and we were pretty much even. I missed massively on Kpaca and you missed big on GJ in playstation all the while telling me I was an absolute idiot or not reading the game for not buying your town read of him. I was wrong on Vaimes in DitF and I don't remember your read on Vaimes there, but Tom sure had that one right. You're acting like we have this massive history of butting heads over town reads but it's basically 1 person I strongly town read and was wrong on (Kpaca in PS) and that's largely it. So drop it or give more examples, because you have no standing to be making ad homs at me like this.
And like because it's such a repeated pattern of you claiming I'm obviously terrible I can't even tell if the massive disconnect between you saying my being opposite of you on DV makes you feel better is a scum slip. It sure looks like one to me. If I was scum then it's not a matter of right or wrong it's me pushing an agenda.
So I am guessing that your tunnel and gut suggest I am scum?
Oh yeah.
If you do flip town, it'll be this, rather.
And if you are town, then maybe I'll come to that conclusion sooner if I can find the other scum.
Otherwise, I'm not really feeling sympathetic towards you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Anyway LW still feels scummy to me. The one thing I kind of stupidly want to town read him for is how often he's referring to his own alignment. It's something he does as town and I have a hard time someone would go out of their way so repeatedly to lie when they didn't have to. Everything else about him feels scummy but that silly ridiculous thing makes me want to town read him. For now I'm choosing to ignore it.
I've taken a complete 180 on RE and now have her as a reasonably townie read.
Rough T/S List:
grape
Vaimes
Rhand/Rod/Shin/RE/HR
1053/Tom/Chris
Cantrip/GJ/Hunger/Tubba
KA
LnG
KJ
DV/LW
DV and Wisp are probably not together fwiw and my DV is distressingly based on that disconnect and nothing else so I'm a bit worried my judgment there is clouded.
It's the same "catch" Chris had on Shin but with a player who actually isn't an enigma. He feels better about a read because town!grape is always wrong when butting heads with town!DV. But he's scum reading me.
@RE
honestly, u are pissing me off now, get your head out of your ass
What have I done to treated like this? like this makes me so mad to be told I am better off dead regardless of my alignment because you can't read me... It's not my job to look townie or help you read me
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Don't disrespect my ability to play mafia, that's the one thing I hate above all, I buried Osie in Polygamist Mafia because of crap like that, and I damn sure can bury your hedgy ass as well
and Grape is wrong 9 times out of 10 with these arguments with me.
Taking a break from my normally scheduled morning catch up for this. Hey dude. Bro. My man. What are you getting at. Are you just trying to tilt me? Or is this a way for you to catch scum? Because you should realize as I've pointed out this isn't true. We had 3 games. I looked at them and we were pretty much even. I missed massively on Kpaca and you missed big on GJ in playstation all the while telling me I was an absolute idiot or not reading the game for not buying your town read of him. I was wrong on Vaimes in DitF and I don't remember your read on Vaimes there, but Tom sure had that one right. You're acting like we have this massive history of butting heads over town reads but it's basically 1 person I strongly town read and was wrong on (Kpaca in PS) and that's largely it. So drop it or give more examples, because you have no standing to be making ad homs at me like this.
And like because it's such a repeated pattern of you claiming I'm obviously terrible I can't even tell if the massive disconnect between you saying my being opposite of you on DV makes you feel better is a scum slip. It sure looks like one to me. If I was scum then it's not a matter of right or wrong it's me pushing an agenda.
Vote: DV
In DITF you to the death were defending Mindreaver. DITF you also continued to scum read my slot for no reason what so ever, and I'd say that you almost singled handily got that into the water supply so much so that I'd say that KJ lynched the slot over it causing a town loss.
In PS it was a lot more than Kpacam it was also Rodemy and IDK the rest of my reads. Once again, I don't really care if I was wrong on a town read in that game. I had the other four scum nailed day one. My point as with the wordings I used, in situations such as this. IE me forcibly pursing scum reads, I'm more likely right than wrong when you disagree with me. My point, is that I don't care if you are town or scum, either way Shin is scum. Its why I'm pursing Shin.
I think you should be entirely discredited, your read on him amounts to random chance of claiming town which has a good probability of just guessing and getting it right. You are either A) Pushing an Agenda, or B) Really wrong as town. I don't care which, I'm lynching Shin today.
@RE
honestly, u are pissing me off now, get your head out of your ass
What have I done to treated like this? like this makes me so mad to be told I am better off dead regardless of my alignment because you can't read me... It's not my job to look townie or help you read me
Don't take it so personally. I still have a null pile to sort. This'll also help me practice my gamestate reading ability.
We still have a week. A lot can change. And if nothing does change, what that tells me is scum is happy with how things are. You don't sound very happy right now
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Also, you really think day one I waste my time as scum pushing Shinichi and yourself?
I want you both alive as long as possible if I'm scum. You're so in the weeds of trying to angle a scum read of me you've accused me of "Plotting with Rodemy" and now are accusing my Shinichi case of amounting to "I disagree with Grape" when there is so much more. Your entire read on Shinichi is "Trust me" even though you've basically been wrong with every trust me I've ever seen.
@RE
honestly, u are pissing me off now, get your head out of your ass
What have I done to treated like this? like this makes me so mad to be told I am better off dead regardless of my alignment because you can't read me... It's not my job to look townie or help you read me
Actually, as a townie it is your job to look townie.
Like, if you get mislynched a lot as a town player, yeah maybe its partly the towns fault, but its also your fault a lot too.
You are right I am not happy, how did you guess?
I am not happy cause every time I read the thread, I see the same ***** day after day, bickering over who is more right, more scum leans on me, telling me who the **** I am aligned with
let's just face it, today will end up in a mislynch and I don't really care at this point
Also, you really think day one I waste my time as scum pushing Shinichi and yourself?
I want you both alive as long as possible if I'm scum. You're so in the weeds of trying to angle a scum read of me you've accused me of "Plotting with Rodemy" and now are accusing my Shinichi case of amounting to "I disagree with Grape" when there is so much more. Your entire read on Shinichi is "Trust me" even though you've basically been wrong with every trust me I've ever seen.
Nah I'm accusing you of treating me as town while pushing me as scum. If you believe I'm scum you wouldn't have the line of thought to think that "Grape being opposite of me makes me feel more strongly about this read." It's obvious you don't believe that as a result. I'm well aware you were pushing Shin before I got involved but if you were town and believed I was scum that thought should never pop into your head.
Anyway maybe you're such an arrogant tosser that you did ignore what you think I am in my zeal to discredit and abuse me. But I don't believe you'd that this game.
Grape did you ever say anything about my dv post? You asked for it.
I didn't because I need to think about it. I actually asked you because I was interested in seeing how you evolved your initial read which felt early/fake. So you making a whole new read wasn't what I was expecting/prepared for. Haven't made much of it as a result.
@DV
Did you just say its my job to project townie?
When did you and RE's play get this terrible?
also what kind of argument is, "Why would I as scum push a mislynch on day 1 on shin, when I can easily push it later?"
LOL
Also, you really think day one I waste my time as scum pushing Shinichi and yourself?
I want you both alive as long as possible if I'm scum. You're so in the weeds of trying to angle a scum read of me you've accused me of "Plotting with Rodemy" and now are accusing my Shinichi case of amounting to "I disagree with Grape" when there is so much more. Your entire read on Shinichi is "Trust me" even though you've basically been wrong with every trust me I've ever seen.
Nah I'm accusing you of treating me as town while pushing me as scum. If you believe I'm scum you wouldn't have the line of thought to think that "Grape being opposite of me makes me feel more strongly about this read." It's obvious you don't believe that as a result. I'm well aware you were pushing Shin before I got involved but if you were town and believed I was scum that thought should never pop into your head.
Anyway maybe you're such an arrogant tosser that you did ignore what you think I am in my zeal to discredit and abuse me. But I don't believe you'd that this game.
Oh no, I am doing exactly that. I'm not doing it to abuse you, but I am doing it to discredit you. Its like you didn't read 1186.
There is definitely some of the I'm not sure you are scum, you are definitely one of the scumiest players in this game. I basically wanted to call you scum all of DITF and I mentioned to Shadow multiple times that I thought KJ might be scum, or have really made a bad fake claim as town and that you were scum.
IDK maybe your play is so reminiscent of DITF you are town. God I want you to be scum this game though.
@DV
Did you just say its my job to project townie?
When did you and RE's play get this terrible?
also what kind of argument is, "Why would I as scum push a mislynch on day 1 on shin, when I can easily push it later?"
LOL
That is a relatively bad argument. I think his point though is that he wouldn't try to push Shini if he was a wolf, because it's not worth the energy, better to let the town eat itself?
I don't like it, but I don't know if that's wolfy. Maybe I just have too high of an expectation of DV at this stage.
My posting will be ever so limited this week. I am taking a few certification exams for accounting, and have actually taken two days off to mostly study for said tests.
Before I try to sort the LnGrrrR/Grape claim thing - is this information correct?
LnGrrrR - has claimed to be factionless, with a redacted alternate win condition
Grape - has claimed that everyone's in his faction, does not share an alternate win condition with anyone
Rhand - has claimed to be the only one in his faction, no information regarding their alternate win condition
And as it stands, Grape is suspicious of LnGrrrR's factionless claim due to his own faction containing "everyone"? Why are factions indicative to alignment, again?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
@GJ
thats the most common mindset, yes, but DV would be the player to powerwolf...
which I dont think is happening here, but that arguement is still bad that he is using
Both Chris and Tom, who respectively saved the game from different angles, were both Lynch, not killed, pretty much losing us the game... How the **** is that for ironic
All this shade is just weird
Got it. [Unknown alignment]Dv thinks shin is mafia by meta.
Noted.
Idk i dont have a need to be better than chris or anyone really but i dont like being belittled when i dont deserve it
Like if you wanna talk ***** there was a mash when i literally townread 10 wolves
That's a godsend read. What makes you so confidant?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
In fairness that is the game that made me take like a 2 week break from mafia and focus on more lengthy games because I realized I wasn't very good at shorter game phrases anymore.
OK so let's get me and Tom death in the family out of the way right now. You can agree, disagree, whatever.
Two really important things.
I did not lynch Tom. Full stop. The day Tom was lynched I had him as my top scum suspect, yes admittedly, but I had always said I was going to re-read the game and see what I could find. I was not afforded this opportunity. I did not vote that man that day.
Secondly, the thing I remember most about Tom and perhaps this is unfair is two hellish fights with him over members of town, not his eventual scum reads. Osi was a brutal day 2 battle that even after I agreed to murder anak he kept pressing for Osi desite anak being a scum read of his. Osi, Osi, Osi. He did not let up on Osi until Osi was modkilled (that modkill, btw, probably cost town the game as it changed the lynch dynamics when my no kill had put it back into town's favor) and that was a brutal fight to save Osi from Tom who kept calling me back for that read.
Secondly I went to bat for Vezok for like two days, again to the brink of -1 and again Tom was saying "you are wrong, he has to be scum, he has to be" and he can massage that after the fact with "well my setup gaming was right" but really if your setup game is 1 one use JK from being completely wrong you weren't that right. I could see town having a tiny bit more power that game. They didn't, but it wasn't bulletproof logic and he trained Vezok for like two straight days.
I am maybe being unfair. That's OK, I am not trying to be cruel but for my end...for my effort...it was PAINFUL dealing with Tom in that game as I dragged Vezok and Osi on my back. Me seeing Vezok night killed rather than lynched was a mark of honor for me.
Also the day Lngr died Tom didn't want to lynch Lngr, but KA (who was town) I may be remember that wrong? Just saying there.
Like maybe this is super harsh and unfair, but I feel like in the heat of the moment Tom did a lot to work against the town. Like game is brutal for town if Osi/Vezok are lynched like Tom was really insistent on.
I am not trying to be a dick I really just think that Tom tunneled town SUPER hard for like 2-3 days and it was painful to watch, even if he had some correct scum reads.
Also Rod played a good game. Despite me thinking he was scum from the get and then being told it was town Rod. Last time I trust another person ever here for awhile.
SPEAKING OF THAT. Actually.
I am 1/1 since my return (#worldrecord) at early reading scum. LET'S SEE IF IT'S 2/2, GENTS.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Grape's a bit tougher. I can't shake the feeling I have about him, but maybe it's about time I try looking at this game mechanically, with regards to the solo/no faction claims. Similar to Wisp, though, it may be an ineffective move to push him today. I'm far more curious about 1053's vote on him at this time. For someone unfamiliar playing in a forum setting, they've focused a lot on the mechanical aspect of the game as opposed to behavioral analysis.
[Vaimes, D_V, Shinichi] -> Town.
[Sir Chris, Highroller] -> Town, but I'll need to reread to be sure.
[Tubba, Kami, Hunger, Rhand, GJ, Rodemy] -> People with posts (?)
[tom, Cantrip, LnGrrrR] -> People with more (?) posts
[Grape, KJ] -> I have an eye on them.
[Wisp, 1053] -> Maybe scum.
Think I've exhausted what I can from Grape and Wisp from today. Will focus on the others now. After I do more fun things.
What I mean is, if they're someone used to reading faces or the like - I don't think mechanics will be their strong suit (though correct me if I'm wrong), which has been their most significant contribution to this game so far.
Their read on Grape also doesn't make much sense to me. I have my own reasons for sussing him, but I'm not seeing what 1053's read is based on in Grape's posts.
Nope, still town, at this point you are just being obnoxious, you are a very mechanical player, so don't even bother stating you have a tonal read on me b/c we both know you are lacking in that department. Also from my perspective your tunnel makes it much much harder to work with you if you are town...
I like your last line though, the one where you should focus on other things, that's smart because it's better for both our win-cons if you are town as well. You are very prone to tunneling and the outcome is never in your favor, usually
Your last line is far more applicable to yourself.
Also, I'm sure I'd be obnoxious to you regardless of your alignment.
what about my last line?
I recall you saying you worked better with mechanics, forgive me if I am mistaken?
sigh...
Tunnels where I get killed before I have a chance to reevaluate don't work in my favor. Otherwise, they do the job - either I'm hitting scum or I'm sorting town. Rather, getting pissed at people doesn't work in my favor. I'm not pissed at you. (Not really.)
I'm a terrible mechanical player. I have tinfoils that are right time to time regarding mechanics, but they usually tie back to behavior one way or another. I'll use whatever I can grab, but I'll have a hard time scum or townreading anyone if my gut isn't siding with me.
exactly which game are you referring to?
every lynch is 50/50... what even is your point, if your tunnel gets lynched and flips town, that is not sorting them...
I'm not pissed either, just slightly irked, doubt I get lynched anytime soon, and I'd care less for my lynch if it wasn't for my clean record of never being mislynched on this site, which I would like to keep
It's not like I'm not considering two worlds right now. It's just that one of them seems far more likely.
***** happens when you stick to your guns.
But i was right much more often.
Anyway...
What I'm looking for Chris is some sense you're trying to figure out who shin is as a player.
Sure, he did [these scummy things] we both know that don't mean *****.
I naturally want to kill him and may just be overcorrecting. I can accept that. Shin can absolutely be scum.
But last and grape both look like they know shin is gonna flip town and if one of them is scum i would take that as stronger evidence than anything about shins posting
RE seems town. The rereading and adapting his conclusions accordingly is a very town thing to do.
@DV: why Cantrip? (or give me a post range to look at if you’ve explained this before)
To introduce info into the thread, to reduce fixation on a player and to prove his ability? Tell me the scum motivation for that usage of his ability now on Shin specifically.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Ah I am trying to sort out the white noise. But I am surprised you dont get I am doing what you say exactly. I have asked many questions about Shin. To Grape and Wisp
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
If he has alot of shots why not?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Taking a break from my normally scheduled morning catch up for this. Hey dude. Bro. My man. What are you getting at. Are you just trying to tilt me? Or is this a way for you to catch scum? Because you should realize as I've pointed out this isn't true. We had 3 games. I looked at them and we were pretty much even. I missed massively on Kpaca and you missed big on GJ in playstation all the while telling me I was an absolute idiot or not reading the game for not buying your town read of him. I was wrong on Vaimes in DitF and I don't remember your read on Vaimes there, but Tom sure had that one right. You're acting like we have this massive history of butting heads over town reads but it's basically 1 person I strongly town read and was wrong on (Kpaca in PS) and that's largely it. So drop it or give more examples, because you have no standing to be making ad homs at me like this.
And like because it's such a repeated pattern of you claiming I'm obviously terrible I can't even tell if the massive disconnect between you saying my being opposite of you on DV makes you feel better is a scum slip. It sure looks like one to me. If I was scum then it's not a matter of right or wrong it's me pushing an agenda.
Vote: DV
And if you are town, then maybe I'll come to that conclusion sooner if I can find the other scum.
Otherwise, I'm not really feeling sympathetic towards you.
Anyway LW still feels scummy to me. The one thing I kind of stupidly want to town read him for is how often he's referring to his own alignment. It's something he does as town and I have a hard time someone would go out of their way so repeatedly to lie when they didn't have to. Everything else about him feels scummy but that silly ridiculous thing makes me want to town read him. For now I'm choosing to ignore it.
I've taken a complete 180 on RE and now have her as a reasonably townie read.
Rough T/S List:
Vaimes
Rhand/Rod/Shin/RE/HR
1053/Tom/Chris
Cantrip/GJ/Hunger/Tubba
KA
LnG
KJ
DV/LW
honestly, u are pissing me off now, get your head out of your ass
What have I done to treated like this? like this makes me so mad to be told I am better off dead regardless of my alignment because you can't read me... It's not my job to look townie or help you read me
In DITF you to the death were defending Mindreaver. DITF you also continued to scum read my slot for no reason what so ever, and I'd say that you almost singled handily got that into the water supply so much so that I'd say that KJ lynched the slot over it causing a town loss.
In PS it was a lot more than Kpacam it was also Rodemy and IDK the rest of my reads. Once again, I don't really care if I was wrong on a town read in that game. I had the other four scum nailed day one. My point as with the wordings I used, in situations such as this. IE me forcibly pursing scum reads, I'm more likely right than wrong when you disagree with me. My point, is that I don't care if you are town or scum, either way Shin is scum. Its why I'm pursing Shin.
I think you should be entirely discredited, your read on him amounts to random chance of claiming town which has a good probability of just guessing and getting it right. You are either A) Pushing an Agenda, or B) Really wrong as town. I don't care which, I'm lynching Shin today.
We still have a week. A lot can change. And if nothing does change, what that tells me is scum is happy with how things are. You don't sound very happy right now
I want you both alive as long as possible if I'm scum. You're so in the weeds of trying to angle a scum read of me you've accused me of "Plotting with Rodemy" and now are accusing my Shinichi case of amounting to "I disagree with Grape" when there is so much more. Your entire read on Shinichi is "Trust me" even though you've basically been wrong with every trust me I've ever seen.
Actually, as a townie it is your job to look townie.
Like, if you get mislynched a lot as a town player, yeah maybe its partly the towns fault, but its also your fault a lot too.
I am not happy cause every time I read the thread, I see the same ***** day after day, bickering over who is more right, more scum leans on me, telling me who the **** I am aligned with
let's just face it, today will end up in a mislynch and I don't really care at this point
Anyway maybe you're such an arrogant tosser that you did ignore what you think I am in my zeal to discredit and abuse me. But I don't believe you'd that this game.
I'm not doubting your ability to solve the game, by the way. I'm only doubting your alignment.
@Tubba
Give me a read on LnGrrrR?
I should have hit preview. That was meant to be
I didn't because I need to think about it. I actually asked you because I was interested in seeing how you evolved your initial read which felt early/fake. So you making a whole new read wasn't what I was expecting/prepared for. Haven't made much of it as a result.
Did you just say its my job to project townie?
When did you and RE's play get this terrible?
also what kind of argument is, "Why would I as scum push a mislynch on day 1 on shin, when I can easily push it later?"
LOL
Oh no, I am doing exactly that. I'm not doing it to abuse you, but I am doing it to discredit you. Its like you didn't read 1186.
There is definitely some of the I'm not sure you are scum, you are definitely one of the scumiest players in this game. I basically wanted to call you scum all of DITF and I mentioned to Shadow multiple times that I thought KJ might be scum, or have really made a bad fake claim as town and that you were scum.
IDK maybe your play is so reminiscent of DITF you are town. God I want you to be scum this game though.
That is a relatively bad argument. I think his point though is that he wouldn't try to push Shini if he was a wolf, because it's not worth the energy, better to let the town eat itself?
I don't like it, but I don't know if that's wolfy. Maybe I just have too high of an expectation of DV at this stage.
My posting will be ever so limited this week. I am taking a few certification exams for accounting, and have actually taken two days off to mostly study for said tests.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
LnGrrrR - has claimed to be factionless, with a redacted alternate win condition
Grape - has claimed that everyone's in his faction, does not share an alternate win condition with anyone
Rhand - has claimed to be the only one in his faction, no information regarding their alternate win condition
And as it stands, Grape is suspicious of LnGrrrR's factionless claim due to his own faction containing "everyone"? Why are factions indicative to alignment, again?
thats the most common mindset, yes, but DV would be the player to powerwolf...
which I dont think is happening here, but that arguement is still bad that he is using