In general, I still think scum Last is lower odds than scum Rhand, though I can’t really explain why town!Last chose Rhand to dummy. Either way, I kinda don’t want to see this through because mission 5 voting data is potentially very telling.
In general, I still think scum Last is lower odds than scum Rhand, though I can’t really explain why town!Last chose Rhand to dummy. Either way, I kinda don’t want to see this through because mission 5 voting data is potentially very telling.
I chose him because imo he had the highest chance of going either way, and I wanted to figure out if he was wrong town or not
Plus there was the fact that the vote was almost unanimous, which made me feel like it was expected I'd pick the wrong person
@Shadow
Grr's appeal feels so real to me... and I've been able to spot scummy appeals before...
what was my hot-take again? KJ/Cantrip/Rhand?
Mechanically that hot take team is possible, but like...requires some pretty cheeky play. Granted, that team would be capable, but...not imo the most likely in scum!rhand world.
Well if we make it to mission 5, and I'm not on the mission, we won't be seeing a town win
to be fair, @Shadow, im just scared off you, I dont think I have the ability to distinguish your town and wolf game
Last, can you talk about your thought process when you wrote this?
Can you dig into that second part as well? In general my goal when I’m scum is to be I distiguishable anyway, why point that out?
@Shadow
Grr's appeal feels so real to me... and I've been able to spot scummy appeals before...
what was my hot-take again? KJ/Cantrip/Rhand?
Mechanically that hot take team is possible, but like...requires some pretty cheeky play. Granted, that team would be capable, but...not imo the most likely in scum!rhand world.
all of my worlds have reasons to be unlikely, with yours being the most unlikely, and with KJ's and Grr's being relatively the same with a tiny bit more likeliness towards Grr
all of my worlds have reasons to be unlikely, with yours being the most unlikely, and with KJ's and Grr's being relatively the same with a tiny bit more likeliness towards Grr
curious as to why you think that though?
to quote myself, from a purely mechanical standpoint:
Rhand, Cantrip, KJ
2.1 would require winking and nodding, 3.1 is a bit cheeky, 3.2 could check out if Rhand was no voting on principle and KJ got gunshy about his proposal.
Rhand, Cantrip, Lng
Same as above, 3.2 voting is more believable from Lng instead of KJ
If this mission goes, we lose. There are two scum on it. I'm (obviously) rejecting.
Wisp, talk to me about your 843. What's confusing to you?
LnG, I can see your thought process in 845, but if I'm scum with Shadow and Rhand, I always approve mission 3; no way I take a chance that a dream mission like that doesn't go through. I would have found some way to justify supporting it to explain my yes vote.
Shadow, in 851 are you saying you don't want to see this mission go through because the voting data will be telling?
I kinda agree with Shadow about the mission data, but I also don't want to put this off too much because I'm pretty sure I'm Mission 5.5 and I REALLY don't want to be individually responsible for losing the game if I choose wrong.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I kinda agree with Shadow about the mission data, but I also don't want to put this off too much because I'm pretty sure I'm Mission 5.5 and I REALLY don't want to be individually responsible for losing the game if I choose wrong.
@Shadow: this one will fail. They didn’t accept lngr proposing it. It they don’t now, they have to count on KJ or you to propose another fail or they lose. If you are scum, then it might be worth the risk, but that means getting through me (which is easy) and through KJ, which might not work.
So I think they’ll want to push this through. One town on the yes is enough.
@Shadow: this one will fail. They didn’t accept lngr proposing it. It they don’t now, they have to count on KJ or you to propose another fail or they lose. If you are scum, then it might be worth the risk, but that means getting through me (which is easy) and through KJ, which might not work.
So I think they’ll want to push this through. One town on the yes is enough.
Interestingly, if this mission does not go through, the votes should actually confirm either last or you.
Well if we make it to mission 5, and I'm not on the mission, we won't be seeing a town win
to be fair, @Shadow, im just scared off you, I dont think I have the ability to distinguish your town and wolf game
Last, can you talk about your thought process when you wrote this?
Can you dig into that second part as well? In general my goal when I’m scum is to be I distiguishable anyway, why point that out?
@shadow
I'm not going to help you find me, I've given a fair amount of thoughts, and if you still think I am scum over Rhand, then I don't believe there is anymore that I can help you with
What is there to answer? I am paranoid of you, idk what else u want me to say, and that was also relatively early in the game before there was any mechanical information
All 3 of the last possible mafia have hedged on me, how do you think that makes me feel in terms of who to choose... It's hard, but to be fair, out of both KJ and Grr, you feel the most natural in terms of thoughts
All 3 of the last possible mafia have hedged on me, how do you think that makes me feel in terms of who to choose... It's hard, but to be fair, out of both KJ and Grr, you feel the most natural in terms of thoughts
Which means that at least 2 townies have hedged on you. I don’t mean to be rude, but stop acting like someone suspecting you is so unbelievable. I’m pretty sure I’ve hedged on everyone here, if not outright flip flopped like a pancake (see Ruma for extreme example).
You can help me find you, if your mission goes through then that’s it, for good or ill, so help me see that you care, and that you’re not just going to win immediately if this goes through
@shadow
Have I ever given you reason to think I don't care? And I don't have time, I have to run the front of my store until 8pm, that's why I proposed it last night
Most if not all of Rhand's early case on both you and me, was association, like in a game where there are no flips, it's an easy tool for mafia to use, so can you tell me that Rhand's thoughts were natural?
Compare me and Rhand, and tell me who feels more natural, me who has made thoughts on everyone? Or Rhand who has focused on 3 specific people...
@Shadow: this one will fail. They didn’t accept lngr proposing it. It they don’t now, they have to count on KJ or you to propose another fail or they lose. If you are scum, then it might be worth the risk, but that means getting through me (which is easy) and through KJ, which might not work.
So I think they’ll want to push this through. One town on the yes is enough.
Interestingly, if this mission does not go through, the votes should actually confirm either last or you.
It’s better than that: if mafia wants to push this mission and it does not get accepted, we catch all 3 on the yes vote.
It’s interesting though how you look at that: how could the votes after the mission does not go through ever clear LW?
@Shadow: this one will fail. They didn’t accept lngr proposing it. It they don’t now, they have to count on KJ or you to propose another fail or they lose. If you are scum, then it might be worth the risk, but that means getting through me (which is easy) and through KJ, which might not work.
So I think they’ll want to push this through. One town on the yes is enough.
Interestingly, if this mission does not go through, the votes should actually confirm either last or you.
It’s better than that: if mafia wants to push this mission and it does not get accepted, we catch all 3 on the yes vote.
It’s interesting though how you look at that: how could the votes after the mission does not go through ever clear LW?
I’m not going to say, I don’t want anything messed with.
@shadow
Have I ever given you reason to think I don't care? And I don't have time, I have to run the front of my store until 8pm, that's why I proposed it last night
Its not a matter of just thinking you don’t care, but a matter of how you care. If you’re scum here and we approve this mission, game over, so you very well could be on the home stretch.
I’ve said before and I’ll say again, I still think you’re much more likely town than Rhand, but it’s not a closed case, and I don’t like the proposal order, and I want to see the extra data points.
Really the only solace I have at this point is that the worst fast scenario of 5.5 goes to me and I would get to take my sweet time if it comes down to it.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Also knowing Rhand is scum, and the fact that mission 4 passed without him, and Riku, as well as the fact that Riku was on no missions, means Riku is always town
Riiiight. Shadow dummied Cantrip.
Honestly... this is probably the best we're gonna get. Dragging this on just means more time to talk ourselves into a stupor.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Riiiight. Shadow dummied Cantrip.
Honestly... this is probably the best we're gonna get. Dragging this on just means more time to talk ourselves into a stupor.
It's probably fine.
”Dragging this out” gives us more, very real data points. I think I’m fine to ride or die the game on Last at this point, even if I talk myself in circles, but I’m not ready to just call it with Lng/you.
Last is correct that all worlds include Cantrip, his vote here could be telling. If it goes, it goes and I’m going to hope last can be as lucky and perceptive as he was with Rhand in that world, but I will still argue for more time.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Plus there was the fact that the vote was almost unanimous, which made me feel like it was expected I'd pick the wrong person
Grr's appeal feels so real to me... and I've been able to spot scummy appeals before...
what was my hot-take again? KJ/Cantrip/Rhand?
Mission 5.2 Proposal: Wisp/LngRR/KillJoy/Riku/Shadow
I've read enough, I know who I will dummy, and I will say no more
Can you dig into that second part as well? In general my goal when I’m scum is to be I distiguishable anyway, why point that out?
curious as to why you think that though?
5.2: KJ, Last, LnG, Riku, and Shadow
You have 24 hours to vote. Please vote by PM. Thank you.
Wisp, talk to me about your 843. What's confusing to you?
LnG, I can see your thought process in 845, but if I'm scum with Shadow and Rhand, I always approve mission 3; no way I take a chance that a dream mission like that doesn't go through. I would have found some way to justify supporting it to explain my yes vote.
Shadow, in 851 are you saying you don't want to see this mission go through because the voting data will be telling?
I kinda agree with Shadow about the mission data, but I also don't want to put this off too much because I'm pretty sure I'm Mission 5.5 and I REALLY don't want to be individually responsible for losing the game if I choose wrong.
I think the votes on this one will give us the solution of the game. Scum won’t risk declining.
So I think they’ll want to push this through. One town on the yes is enough.
The difference between me and grr is that I look more townie, and a lot of the information we have revolves around me
Riku being town and Rhand being scum
@shadow
I'd rather not answer that question
I'm not going to help you find me, I've given a fair amount of thoughts, and if you still think I am scum over Rhand, then I don't believe there is anymore that I can help you with
What is there to answer? I am paranoid of you, idk what else u want me to say, and that was also relatively early in the game before there was any mechanical information
You can help me find you, if your mission goes through then that’s it, for good or ill, so help me see that you care, and that you’re not just going to win immediately if this goes through
Have I ever given you reason to think I don't care? And I don't have time, I have to run the front of my store until 8pm, that's why I proposed it last night
Compare me and Rhand, and tell me who feels more natural, me who has made thoughts on everyone? Or Rhand who has focused on 3 specific people...
It’s better than that: if mafia wants to push this mission and it does not get accepted, we catch all 3 on the yes vote.
It’s interesting though how you look at that: how could the votes after the mission does not go through ever clear LW?
I’ve said before and I’ll say again, I still think you’re much more likely town than Rhand, but it’s not a closed case, and I don’t like the proposal order, and I want to see the extra data points.
Really the only solace I have at this point is that the worst fast scenario of 5.5 goes to me and I would get to take my sweet time if it comes down to it.
Do we wait or do we approve and hope for the best?
But I trust you.
I'm just not like. 100%. I want to be more sure on Shadow. Do you have opinions on why LnGrrR AND Shadow are not both scum?
Maybe we just ride or die with you. IDK
Shadow can only be scum with Cantrip since he claimed to have dummied him and he passed, and mission 4. w/e passed
Cantrip is always in every world
Honestly... this is probably the best we're gonna get. Dragging this on just means more time to talk ourselves into a stupor.
It's probably fine.
Last is correct that all worlds include Cantrip, his vote here could be telling. If it goes, it goes and I’m going to hope last can be as lucky and perceptive as he was with Rhand in that world, but I will still argue for more time.
Do you think you need more time, Shadow?
5.2: KJ, Last, LnG, Riku, and Shadow
Yes (3): Last, LnG, Riku
No(4): Cantrip, KJ, Rhand, Shadow
It is now proposal 5.3 and it is Rhand's turn to propose. He has 24 hours.
KJ, why vote no?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
So skip Rhand, and go from there.
Game is probably just Cantrip/Rhand/Lng at this point.