KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
After the last setback the crew devolved into squabbling and paranoia. Hips were conspicuously covered and bulged at odd angles, it was quieter around the "office", and all the previous laughter and braggadocio had vanished. The spooks were onto you and you needed to find who you could trust. And fast.
Despite all this you decided to run the plan back but when your man on the inside called it off saying there were extra patrols you knew you'd been made again. There was time for one last run and if it failed you were looking at a long stay in federal prison. So the pressure was on.
Mission 4 has failed.
Cantrip, Last, LnG, Killjoy, and Shadow were on it.
Pass, Pass, Fail, and Fail were submitted.
It is now proposal 5.1. And it is LnG's turn to nominate. He has 72 hours.
Welp, game is hard now. Cantrip is lock scum though...I think? Don’t see a world where two of last/KJ/Lng are together without having a 2 fail mission.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Did you forget when I literally said that after you said Rhand failed? I said you were 95% town. The other 5% is if mission 4 failed.
what do you know that I dont? tell me good sir, how your ultimate conclusion is I am scum?
Rhand/KJ are the wolves, and if anyone else wants to doubt me, then ill put you on that pedestal with them as well
we are deciding on the scum between cantrip/shadow now
@KJ
tell me, how did you come out of this already assuming Cantrip is town?
also, where is the last scum? if we humor grr/wisp and rhand town? which in no world do I ever allow us to put rhand on this mission
also Riku is lock town for all of those that dont know how to read the game state... this mission probably says a lot more, but I need to reread
Riku, Killjoy, Lngrrr, Cantrip and Wisp.
quite sure this is the team we want, and we dummy killjoy
from my pov you are lock town, for those that still think I am scum, they can still believe you are scum
@killjoy
also go find the post where you were gunna call me lock scum so I can read why you concluded that, if not you better start talking
Riku, Killjoy, Lngrrr, Cantrip and Wisp.
quite sure this is the team we want, and we dummy killjoy
from my pov you are lock town, for those that still think I am scum, they can still believe you are scum
@killjoy
also go find the post where you were gunna call me lock scum so I can read why you concluded that, if not you better start talking
Riku, Killjoy, Lngrrr, Cantrip and Wisp.
quite sure this is the team we want, and we dummy killjoy
from my pov you are lock town, for those that still think I am scum, they can still believe you are scum
@killjoy
also go find the post where you were gunna call me lock scum so I can read why you concluded that, if not you better start talking
well it's easy to make those assumptions when you dont have to hedge on yourself... if not for my track on rhand, and everyone's dislike of you, you wouldn't be confirmed... literally you are confirmed because no one wanted you on a train at least from my pov
anyone that is still arguing I am scum, is just scum
still not confirmed though, but that's pretty much where I am prior to my backread
Riku, Killjoy, Lngrrr, Cantrip and Wisp.
quite sure this is the team we want, and we dummy killjoy
from my pov you are lock town, for those that still think I am scum, they can still believe you are scum
@killjoy
also go find the post where you were gunna call me lock scum so I can read why you concluded that, if not you better start talking
well it's easy to make those assumptions when you dont have to hedge on yourself... if not for my track on rhand, and everyone's dislike of you, you wouldn't be confirmed... literally you are confirmed because no one wanted you on a train at least from my pov
anyone that is still arguing I am scum, is just scum
still not confirmed though, but that's pretty much where I am prior to my backread
Not a great way of working out who scum is there wisp (: I have some experience with that kind of scumreading. Works 45% of the time.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
Riku, Killjoy, Lngrrr, Cantrip and Wisp.
quite sure this is the team we want, and we dummy killjoy
from my pov you are lock town, for those that still think I am scum, they can still believe you are scum
@killjoy
also go find the post where you were gunna call me lock scum so I can read why you concluded that, if not you better start talking
well it's easy to make those assumptions when you dont have to hedge on yourself... if not for my track on rhand, and everyone's dislike of you, you wouldn't be confirmed... literally you are confirmed because no one wanted you on a train at least from my pov
anyone that is still arguing I am scum, is just scum
still not confirmed though, but that's pretty much where I am prior to my backread
Not a great way of working out who scum is there wisp (: I have some experience with that kind of scumreading. Works 45% of the time.
ok now im confused as to what you are trying to say? can you explain?
god it's so hard to think shadow is scum with how Rhand treated him...
@Riku
Assume Rhand/KJ are confirmed scum, and pretend that Shadow is lock town, hypotheically speaking of course... who else stands out to you as possible last scum?
I don't have a lot of time, unfortunately, but I dummied Shadow and he voted pass. For whatever that's worth in this situation. I'm no longer sure on anything. Still feel like Wisp had zero reason to frame Rhand while passing the mission, but I guess there could be a really long game there. Bare minimum, I feel like we need to start with figuring out which of these two worlds is more likely and go from there:
I don't have a lot of time, unfortunately, but I dummied Shadow and he voted pass. For whatever that's worth in this situation. I'm no longer sure on anything. Still feel like Wisp had zero reason to frame Rhand while passing the mission, but I guess there could be a really long game there. Bare minimum, I feel like we need to start with figuring out which of these two worlds is more likely and go from there:
It sure would be easier if the first world were the case.
I'll try to post more later tonight.
ok so shadow is only scum in the world where Cantrip is a wolf...
and the first world is the case... serously what have I done for you to think otherwise... look at rhands posts and look at mine, and tell me how you are still hedging on me?
Wisp: You're probably not 100% clear, but you are like 95%. There's the world where you blamed Rhand, and bluffed with a success. But I'm not a fan of Rhand's reaction.
But, like, if the next two missions fail (especially the 4th one) then you might be scum. Otherwise I'm not willing to entertain scum!you worlds.
Shadow: Your "It was KJ wasn't it?" is what's making me suspect you pretty hardcore. I've played enough Resistance to have seen that reaction from scum in response to a fail. They want to throw shade on someone on the mission who isn't their buddy.
So, Shadow is bad, so is Rhand. LnGrrR didn't put up enough of a fight to being put on a mission with their buddy to be scum with Rhand. Last proposed it, and isn't scum for reasons above.
So last scum is in [Cantrip, Riku].
Here ya go Wisp.
Like I said, if the next two missions fail, then you might be scum. Now that they have, you are very likely scum. The logic being that scum!you framed Rhand to put yourself on the next couple missions and garner some trust.
So Shadow is likely clear now (not helpful, I'd already thought that).
The scumteam is very likely Wisp, LnGrrrR, and Riku.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
OK WELL IGNORE THAT AND LOOK AT OUR ******* POSTS, AND TELL ME WHO IS THE WOLF... READ ME ON A MACRO LEVEL, NOT SOME MICRO LEVEL FALLACY YOU CREATED
idk why am I even getting mad, it's obvious now that you are scum, you created an argument that is invalid because the premises don't lead the conclusion, its more inductive than fallacious since the conclusion is more likely, but still the premises don't equate to the conclusion
you failed to look at any other reasons why two missions in a row could fail
one being cantrip or shadow, or that there were two scum from the beginning meaning rhand and Grr...
one shadow can't be a wolf unless cantrip is a wolf
and u just ****ed that idealogy, because now i gotta reread you, because I came in thinking you were town, and then you go and pull this, so now are your just town thats playing horrendous, or are you scum trying to drive a narrative to win mission 5
you cant mislynch when I am town, and you are for certain not going to hear the end of me in a game where I cant die when I need to be on this mission for town to win
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Ok so Shadow can only be scum if Cantrip is scum too.
Possible worlds where Cantrip is scum:
LW/Cantrip/Shadow
LW/Cantrip/Riku
LW/Cantrip/KJ
LW/Cantrip/Lngr
Possible worlds where Cantrip is town:
LW/KJ/Riku
LW/Lngr/Riku
(LW/Lngr/KJ would have created a fail too many)
Mission 1 is irrelevant.
Mission 2: with Wisp as leader, possible buddies would vote pass to avoid a double fail. Results irrelevant.
Mission 3:
3.1: Rhand, Lngr, KJ, Cantrip. Accepted by Lngr only, which means at least 2 scum rejected. Since scum have to fail to win, probably not 2 scum in Lngr, KJ, Cantrip and LNgr probably town (he would reject as scum)
Remaining teams: LW/Cantrip/Shadow, LW/Cantrip/Riku, LW/KJ/Riku
3.2: KJ, Lngr, Riku, LW. Accepted by Cantrip and Lngr. Rejected by at least 2 scum again. KJ would clearly dummy Riku, which means LW/Cantrip/Shadow would produce the one fail, as well as LW/Cantrip/Riku. LW/KJ/Riku would result in one fail too because KJ is leader.
This mission was good for scum. I think it’s the conversation about it that forced them to reject to not to lose face.
3.3: KJ, Lw, Lngr, Rhand. Shadow leader, me dummied. One fail, so KJ + LW not a team. That leaves LW/Cantrip/Shadow and LW/Cantrip/Riku. Cantrip is scum.
Mission 4:
4.1: Riku, KJ, Lngr, Cantrip, LW. No one trusted Riku at this point, so even if Riku is scum 3, this mission would never be accepted.
4.2: Cantrip, LW, Lngr, KJ, Shadow.
LW/Cantrip/(Riku or Shadow) is the team.
Cantrip giving a pass on Shadow makes me think he wanted the towncred from Shadow and it’s probably Riku. Not sure on that at all though.
Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I find that cantrip dummy'ing shadow of all the people interesting. On the other hand, killjoys conclusions are confusing the heck out of me. Would town really do such a thing?
Which means my scum teams have to change.
Shadow -> Town
Cantrip -> Town
Me -> Town
Lngrrr -->
Killjoy -->
Rhand -->
Wisp -->
Unless scum are playing super well, rhand is third scum.
Shadow -> Town
Cantrip -> Town
Me -> Town
Lngrrr -->
Killjoy -->
Wisp -->
Rhand --> Scum
That is, unless wisp is scum. But from wisp today, I don't see scum attitude coming from wisp? I'll rely on other people here.
Shadow -> Town
Cantrip -> Town
Me -> Town
Wisp --> Maybe Town
Lngrrr --> Scum
Killjoy --> Scum
Rhand --> Scum
But that team confuses me.
Is it possible that killjoy is right, and wisp is scum?
I guess so.
Alright, shadow, what say you? At least two out of three on the last train were scum. Cantrip dummied you and the thing failed. Why did cantrip dummy you? Is the scum team Cantrip / Killjoy / Rhand?
I would like to hear everyones opinions as there are a lot of scenarios I can think up.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
I must say I’m amazed how well LW’s tactic of giving up Mission 2 to incriminate me worked.
Here we are at the final mission and it’s a coinflip.
The solution seems to be for Lngr, KJ or me to propose Lngr/KJ/Rhand/Riku/Shadow and then hopefully dummying correctly in Riku and Shadow.
Ironically, the next people to propose are Lngr/KJ/Riku/Rhand/Shadow, so at least LW and Cantrip can’t propose.
If last actually passed mission 2 to get a free pass to the next missions then freaking bravo. Rhand never giving up certainly lends some credence to that theory, but he’d have to do that anyway. But he did pass mission 3, so that’s not nothing.
I’m not sure what to make of Cantrip dummying me, cause like...in most worlds I think he’s still scum? Unless KJ and lng are together and had the best communication ever, them being both scum makes no sense.
I will hammer out some scenarios later when I am less busy.
Regardless of your alignment, you’re literally playing a game about lying, stop acting offended when someone wants to do their due diligence. Like, if you’re scum, it’s such a low route of attack anyway.
I’m going to look at everything, stop telling me I’m bad for doing so.
Regardless of your alignment, you’re literally playing a game about lying, stop acting offended when someone wants to do their due diligence. Like, if you’re scum, it’s such a low route of attack anyway.
I’m going to look at everything, stop telling me I’m bad for doing so.
I'm not tell you are bad... I still think you are town, idk how you can say that Rhand trying to prove his towniness is anything more telling then what I've been trying to do...
And I will do w/e I need to do to prove my towniness, if it has to be AtE then so be it, because I am damn sure not winning in a battle of wit over Rhand
It also doesn't help that we completely ***** on Riku's mission so it's hard to read his mission, because we all failed it
@shadow
I encourage you to argue why logically the first team with you is wrong, as well I want your opinion on the latter team which I think is more certain
It was proposed by Cantrip.
4.2: Cantrip/Wisp/LnG/Killjoy/Shadow
Yes (6): Cantrip, LnGrrrR, Rhand, Riku, Shadow, Wisp
No (0):
Not Voting (1): KJ
It is now the mission phase. Please do not post.
Please send your pass/fail by PM in the next 24 hours.
Despite all this you decided to run the plan back but when your man on the inside called it off saying there were extra patrols you knew you'd been made again. There was time for one last run and if it failed you were looking at a long stay in federal prison. So the pressure was on.
Mission 4 has failed.
Cantrip, Last, LnG, Killjoy, and Shadow were on it.
Pass, Pass, Fail, and Fail were submitted.
It is now proposal 5.1. And it is LnG's turn to nominate. He has 72 hours.
Time to reread last and Rhand.
@Cantrip
who did you dummy... this answer is your do or die... this is your last chance
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
@Shadow
Riku is lock town...
explain to me... how anything that just happened confirms that I am scum?
or he is trust town
which leaves Cantrip/Shadow as containing the last mafia
since KJ just outted himself
Rhand/KJ are the wolves, and if anyone else wants to doubt me, then ill put you on that pedestal with them as well
we are deciding on the scum between cantrip/shadow now
@KJ
tell me, how did you come out of this already assuming Cantrip is town?
also, where is the last scum? if we humor grr/wisp and rhand town? which in no world do I ever allow us to put rhand on this mission
also Riku is lock town for all of those that dont know how to read the game state... this mission probably says a lot more, but I need to reread
so ya that's interesting as well
quite sure this is the team we want, and we dummy killjoy
from my pov you are lock town, for those that still think I am scum, they can still believe you are scum
@killjoy
also go find the post where you were gunna call me lock scum so I can read why you concluded that, if not you better start talking
i keep jumping back and fourth with Shadow and its annoying
Funny.
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/808743-one-last-job-proposal-5-1?comment=561
anyone that is still arguing I am scum, is just scum
still not confirmed though, but that's pretty much where I am prior to my backread
Not a great way of working out who scum is there wisp (: I have some experience with that kind of scumreading. Works 45% of the time.
@Riku
Assume Rhand/KJ are confirmed scum, and pretend that Shadow is lock town, hypotheically speaking of course... who else stands out to you as possible last scum?
town!Wisp => scum!Rhand => town!Riku
scum!Wisp => town!Rhand => ???!Riku
It sure would be easier if the first world were the case.
I'll try to post more later tonight.
ok so shadow is only scum in the world where Cantrip is a wolf...
and the first world is the case... serously what have I done for you to think otherwise... look at rhands posts and look at mine, and tell me how you are still hedging on me?
Like I said, if the next two missions fail, then you might be scum. Now that they have, you are very likely scum. The logic being that scum!you framed Rhand to put yourself on the next couple missions and garner some trust.
So Shadow is likely clear now (not helpful, I'd already thought that).
The scumteam is very likely Wisp, LnGrrrR, and Riku.
idk why am I even getting mad, it's obvious now that you are scum, you created an argument that is invalid because the premises don't lead the conclusion, its more inductive than fallacious since the conclusion is more likely, but still the premises don't equate to the conclusion
you failed to look at any other reasons why two missions in a row could fail
one being cantrip or shadow, or that there were two scum from the beginning meaning rhand and Grr...
one shadow can't be a wolf unless cantrip is a wolf
and u just ****ed that idealogy, because now i gotta reread you, because I came in thinking you were town, and then you go and pull this, so now are your just town thats playing horrendous, or are you scum trying to drive a narrative to win mission 5
you cant mislynch when I am town, and you are for certain not going to hear the end of me in a game where I cant die when I need to be on this mission for town to win
Cantrip/Shadow/Rhand
Rhand/KJ/Grr
Rhand/KJ/Cantrip
Possible worlds where Cantrip is scum:
LW/Cantrip/Shadow
LW/Cantrip/Riku
LW/Cantrip/KJ
LW/Cantrip/Lngr
Possible worlds where Cantrip is town:
LW/KJ/Riku
LW/Lngr/Riku
(LW/Lngr/KJ would have created a fail too many)
Mission 1 is irrelevant.
Mission 2: with Wisp as leader, possible buddies would vote pass to avoid a double fail. Results irrelevant.
Mission 3:
3.1: Rhand, Lngr, KJ, Cantrip. Accepted by Lngr only, which means at least 2 scum rejected. Since scum have to fail to win, probably not 2 scum in Lngr, KJ, Cantrip and LNgr probably town (he would reject as scum)
Remaining teams: LW/Cantrip/Shadow, LW/Cantrip/Riku, LW/KJ/Riku
3.2: KJ, Lngr, Riku, LW. Accepted by Cantrip and Lngr. Rejected by at least 2 scum again. KJ would clearly dummy Riku, which means LW/Cantrip/Shadow would produce the one fail, as well as LW/Cantrip/Riku. LW/KJ/Riku would result in one fail too because KJ is leader.
This mission was good for scum. I think it’s the conversation about it that forced them to reject to not to lose face.
3.3: KJ, Lw, Lngr, Rhand. Shadow leader, me dummied. One fail, so KJ + LW not a team. That leaves LW/Cantrip/Shadow and LW/Cantrip/Riku. Cantrip is scum.
Mission 4:
4.1: Riku, KJ, Lngr, Cantrip, LW. No one trusted Riku at this point, so even if Riku is scum 3, this mission would never be accepted.
4.2: Cantrip, LW, Lngr, KJ, Shadow.
LW/Cantrip/(Riku or Shadow) is the team.
Cantrip giving a pass on Shadow makes me think he wanted the towncred from Shadow and it’s probably Riku. Not sure on that at all though.
@KJ/Lngr: thoughts?
Which means my scum teams have to change.
Shadow -> Town
Cantrip -> Town
Me -> Town
Lngrrr -->
Killjoy -->
Rhand -->
Wisp -->
Unless scum are playing super well, rhand is third scum.
Shadow -> Town
Cantrip -> Town
Me -> Town
Lngrrr -->
Killjoy -->
Wisp -->
Rhand --> Scum
That is, unless wisp is scum. But from wisp today, I don't see scum attitude coming from wisp? I'll rely on other people here.
Shadow -> Town
Cantrip -> Town
Me -> Town
Wisp --> Maybe Town
Lngrrr --> Scum
Killjoy --> Scum
Rhand --> Scum
But that team confuses me.
Is it possible that killjoy is right, and wisp is scum?
I guess so.
Alright, shadow, what say you? At least two out of three on the last train were scum. Cantrip dummied you and the thing failed. Why did cantrip dummy you? Is the scum team Cantrip / Killjoy / Rhand?
I would like to hear everyones opinions as there are a lot of scenarios I can think up.
Here we are at the final mission and it’s a coinflip.
The solution seems to be for Lngr, KJ or me to propose Lngr/KJ/Rhand/Riku/Shadow and then hopefully dummying correctly in Riku and Shadow.
Ironically, the next people to propose are Lngr/KJ/Riku/Rhand/Shadow, so at least LW and Cantrip can’t propose.
I’m not sure what to make of Cantrip dummying me, cause like...in most worlds I think he’s still scum? Unless KJ and lng are together and had the best communication ever, them being both scum makes no sense.
I will hammer out some scenarios later when I am less busy.
You guys can keep doing that, while I find the real team
Also if town loses this game, I'm not taking the blame, not when I caught mafia
I’m going to look at everything, stop telling me I’m bad for doing so.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I'm going to reread the game again
It also doesn't help that we completely ***** on Riku's mission so it's hard to read his mission, because we all failed it
He quotes Occam's razor but that is not how this works
Thanks Wisp!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Cantrip -> Grr -> Wisp -> Rhand -> KJ
5.1 -> 5.2 -> 5.3 -> 5.4 -> 5.5
still need to get the rest of the dummies
who did you dummy for your mission again?
Cantrip/Shadow/Rhand
or KJ/Cantrip/Rhand
still doubt even for the sake of wifom, that Grr as a wolf, picks both his partners on mission 1.2... that's just suicide
I encourage you to argue why logically the first team with you is wrong, as well I want your opinion on the latter team which I think is more certain