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Quote from Killjoy »(To Spike) "I don't cah who gets sent on this first mission. Theh's two people. Failing it would be stupid. But I need to feel like I can trust that YOU aren't lying if it does fail, because it does occasionally fail. Last time that happened to me, I lost as town. I'm mildly paranoid of a situation where you send yourself, one of us, and one of your informant buddies, then say you sent the informant on the dummy mission. That's just a lot of wine I don't want to wade through in the first mission. Does that make sense? Also, do you agree that the mission leadeh should be trustworthy (or at least not the opposite) befoah deciding on missions?
Quote from KJ »And about Jones and why he might be an informant: My initial impression is he's thinking too far ahead, and too small picture. There's gonna be some missions where he shouldn't go. We don't want to send untested people on the later missions. Maybe I need to make a dive into his head a bit more, because maybe 'I want to be on every mission' is too brazen for FBI. I'm batting that around in my head as well.
Quote from KJ »Question: How much of your distrust of Slick is based on Fingers opinions, and how much is based on Slick himself?
Quote from Cantripmancer »Because it felt like you were seriously fine with "whatever, let's use flavor for fun", but then that wasn't actually the case.
Quote from CantripQuote from Shadow »I already knew the resistance rules, and the dummy mission rules are sort of buried several rules deep. Quote from Cantrip »Be specific in this comparison: point to the posts that are similar between Rhand and LnG that I'm calling scum for the former and town for the latter. I agree that they have some similar posts, but I don't agree that I'm calling LnG town for any of them.You literally just did though. 40/41 are both contentless posts in the same way that the posts you pointed out from Rhand and said “filler” are. Except you cited them in your town read of him. Quote from Shadow »[quote=Cantrip]Actually, I see [Last’s] thought process as ridiculously transparent and mirroring my own.Whats his read on me, and why, using only posts before the one I’m quoting?(By "the one I'm quoting", you're saying before post 107?) If so, then he initially doesn't trust you, but warmed to you in the process of the mission proposal. He wants to replace you on a proposed team in 53, 64 he indicates that he doesn't know how to read you. 86 he flips his read on you, calling you and him v/v (which, I note, aligns with his stated self-meta), and then 92 he's backing you, with reasons that I didn't initially understand, but now (mostly) do. What's your point with this question? Quote from Cantrip »I'm happy that people care about who goes on missions. I'm dissatisfied with an initial professed mindset of "it doesn't matter" followed by "whoops, I mean, obviously it does matter". You, KJ, and Wisp have all essentially taken that stance, and I distrust the mindset discrepancy.Even if I grant this premise, unless the exact team was KJ/Last/me, then someone thought that with a townie mindset. And to take it a step further, I actually think it shows more of a townie mindset anyway in that even when trying to have fun, people still actually care and are forming reads.
Quote from Shadow »I already knew the resistance rules, and the dummy mission rules are sort of buried several rules deep. Quote from Cantrip »Be specific in this comparison: point to the posts that are similar between Rhand and LnG that I'm calling scum for the former and town for the latter. I agree that they have some similar posts, but I don't agree that I'm calling LnG town for any of them.You literally just did though. 40/41 are both contentless posts in the same way that the posts you pointed out from Rhand and said “filler” are. Except you cited them in your town read of him. Quote from Shadow »[quote=Cantrip]Actually, I see [Last’s] thought process as ridiculously transparent and mirroring my own.Whats his read on me, and why, using only posts before the one I’m quoting?
Quote from Cantrip »Be specific in this comparison: point to the posts that are similar between Rhand and LnG that I'm calling scum for the former and town for the latter. I agree that they have some similar posts, but I don't agree that I'm calling LnG town for any of them.
Quote from Shadow »[quote=Cantrip]Actually, I see [Last’s] thought process as ridiculously transparent and mirroring my own.
Quote from Cantrip »I'm happy that people care about who goes on missions. I'm dissatisfied with an initial professed mindset of "it doesn't matter" followed by "whoops, I mean, obviously it does matter". You, KJ, and Wisp have all essentially taken that stance, and I distrust the mindset discrepancy.
Quote from Grapefruit21 »And I'm permanently paranoid about getting pocketed. Our fearless moderator has a lot to do with that...
Quote from Cantrip »Quote from Shadow »Doesn’t really matter what I say at this point, but I legit didn’t read the rules about dummy mission and that stood out to me from your opening post.If you're telling the truth...I'm sorry, I guess? But it always blows me away when players sign up for a game and profess that they didn't notice the special rules. That's, like, the first thing I look for because it's invariably going to be a discussion point and possibly a way to gain an advantage over the opposing team. That's on the low end of why I think you're an informant, though, because it happens frequently, from both alignments, afaict.
Quote from Shadow »Doesn’t really matter what I say at this point, but I legit didn’t read the rules about dummy mission and that stood out to me from your opening post.
Quote from Shadow »Quote from Cantrip »Actually, I see [Last’s] thought process as ridiculously transparent and mirroring my own.Whats his read on me, and why, using only posts before the one I’m quoting?
Quote from Cantrip »Actually, I see [Last’s] thought process as ridiculously transparent and mirroring my own.
Quote from shadowlancerx »Quote from Cantripmancer »Because it felt like you were seriously fine with "whatever, let's use flavor for fun", but then that wasn't actually the case.I mean; in general the first mission composition /doesn’t/ matter. But at the end of the day I’m still going to send people I trust, and not people I don’t. And, especially with the dummy missions, I will go out of my way to decline missions by people I don’t trust, regardless of composition.
Quote from Shadow »Quote from Cantrip »Be specific in this comparison: point to the posts that are similar between Rhand and LnG that I'm calling scum for the former and town for the latter. I agree that they have some similar posts, but I don't agree that I'm calling LnG town for any of them.You literally just did though. 40/41 are both contentless posts in the same way that the posts you pointed out from Rhand and said “filler” are. Except you cited them in your town read of him.
Quote from Cantrip »Quote from Shadow »Quote from Cantrip »Actually, I see [Last’s] thought process as ridiculously transparent and mirroring my own.Whats his read on me, and why, using only posts before the one I’m quoting?(By "the one I'm quoting", you're saying before post 107?) If so, then he initially doesn't trust you, but warmed to you in the process of the mission proposal. He wants to replace you on a proposed team in 53, 64 he indicates that he doesn't know how to read you. 86 he flips his read on you, calling you and him v/v (which, I note, aligns with his stated self-meta), and then 92 he's backing you, with reasons that I didn't initially understand, but now (mostly) do. What's your point with this question?
Quote from Shadow »Quote from Cantrip »I'm happy that people care about who goes on missions. I'm dissatisfied with an initial professed mindset of "it doesn't matter" followed by "whoops, I mean, obviously it does matter". You, KJ, and Wisp have all essentially taken that stance, and I distrust the mindset discrepancy.Even if I grant this premise, unless the exact team was KJ/Last/me, then someone thought that with a townie mindset.
Quote from Shadow »And to take it a step further, I actually think it shows more of a townie mindset anyway in that even when trying to have fun, people still actually care and are forming reads.
Quote from LnGrrrR »@Cantrip, you could always just send Mssr. Whisper on zee dummy mission, non?
Quote from shadowlancerx »Can we ease up a little on the accents and roleplays? Just to make them readable and in English please? Thanks.
Quote from Cantripmancer »...seriously? 40 was LnG responding to your Captain Obvious question in a very disingenuous way (and without taking the opportunity to attack or smear you). 41 I agree was low in content, but I still liked it for the interactive playfulness. And LnG had other posts that were low on content (32 and 33, for example), but you asked me what I liked about his posts.
Quote from Cantrip »Stop misrepresenting my argument. It's the shift in totality from "literally anything" to "but no, not that" that I'm concerned with. I feel like it's highly likely that kind of mindset is more likely to come from scum who want mission leaders to make hasty choices than it is to come from lazy Town.
Quote from Cantrip »Boooooooo to roleplay spoilsport. I didn't have any problem parsing LnG's Frenglish.
Quote from LnGrrrR »Bien sur, vous ... mon ami? ... @KJ, merci beaucoup por votre signature. C'est mas facile comme ca.
Quote from Grapefruit21 »If only 5 people submitted votes the majority required would be 3. 1 person bot voting does not change the majority requirement of 4, and it only applies to the vote where the vote wasn't cast, not for future proposals. Apologies for the unclear rules text.
Quote from shadowlancerx »Quote from Cantripmancer »...seriously? 40 was LnG responding to your Captain Obvious question in a very disingenuous way (and without taking the opportunity to attack or smear you). 41 I agree was low in content, but I still liked it for the interactive playfulness. And LnG had other posts that were low on content (32 and 33, for example), but you asked me what I liked about his posts.The question “who would you send” being answered with “me” is not an obvious questions with an obvious answer in that I was looking for people other than himself, so the answer is just silly. On top of that, the conversation at the time was based on flavor anyway, so even “me” isn’t necessarily a fitting answer. And you’re allowed to like his posts, It’s just noteworthy that somehow you liked his no effort posts and criticized Rhand for similar ones.
Quote from Shadow »Quote from Cantrip »Quote from Shadow »Quote from Cantrip »Actually, I see [Last’s] thought process as ridiculously transparent and mirroring my own.Whats his read on me, and why, using only posts before the one I’m quoting?(By "the one I'm quoting", you're saying before post 107?) If so, then he initially doesn't trust you, but warmed to you in the process of the mission proposal. He wants to replace you on a proposed team in 53, 64 he indicates that he doesn't know how to read you. 86 he flips his read on you, calling you and him v/v (which, I note, aligns with his stated self-meta), and then 92 he's backing you, with reasons that I didn't initially understand, but now (mostly) do. What's your point with this question?The key part of my question was “and why”, of which there was literally no reason given. And considering you had described him as transparent, I’m wondering how you come to that conclusion.
Quote from Shadow »Quote from Cantrip »Stop misrepresenting my argument. It's the shift in totality from "literally anything" to "but no, not that" that I'm concerned with. I feel like it's highly likely that kind of mindset is more likely to come from scum who want mission leaders to make hasty choices than it is to come from lazy Town.How are you getting from “I actually do care about mission composition, let’s not just send anyone” to the desire to make people make hasty choices, rather than thinking things through? Additionally, going from “literally anything” to “no not that” is more of a product of the game unfolding, rather than a matter of cognitive dissonance.
Quote from Shadow »The actual French words were a Nope for me.....(also, sorry if I’m coming across like a jerk, I’m not intending to be)
Quote from Shadow »@Ruma: Why would you have voted against this mission? Can I get your strongest 2 reads please?
Quote from Killjoy »KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc. As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Quote from Spike »]Uh...sure? But then I guess I have to ask: why don't you trust me? Because I said that it doesn't feel like Wisp has an agenda? Or because I'm expressing suspicion of you? Or...? Because in 125 you said it "literally shouldn't matter" who gets sent, and then followed it up with rationale for sending players we don't like, but in the same post you then say that you don't trust me and therefore won't approve the mission. I feel like I'm getting hung up on this, but it's really frustrating. Either it doesn't matter who goes, or it does. It can't be both, and I'm leery of anyone who said the former then changed to the latter. I mean, if someone throws the game and says "hey, guys, I'm an informant, yuk yuk" I guess that's one thing, but otherwise...?
Quote from Fingers »Can we ease up a little on the accents and roleplays? Just to make them readable and in English please? Thanks. The game is harder for the scum team if they spend the first mission literally gladiating another player. And if they aren’t the proposer, then they run the risk of sending a fail and getting dummy mission’d anyway, which would royally screw them up.
Quote from LnGrrrR »Hm. I will have to think about my team. In the meantime, could everyone who voted no explain why you did so?
Quote from Rumanshi »Shadow being openly abrasive is NAI in this case wisp. Shadow just has beef with me for being terrible at mafia, and a terrible person.
Quote from shadowlancerx »Quote from Rumanshi »Shadow being openly abrasive is NAI in this case wisp. Shadow just has beef with me for being terrible at mafia, and a terrible person. I don’t think you’re a terrible person or terrible at Mafia, I just don’t like intentional obfuscation/vagueness when it’s constant. But very well, if you’re by going to play, then play. @Last: why is Ruma town?
Quote from LnGrrrR » @KJ, merci beaucoup por votre signature. C'est mas facile comme ca.
Quote from Killjoy »(To Sneakers:) What ah you struggling with?
Quote from Cantripmancer »@Shadow: Hmm, what would you think about specifically Rhand/KJ/LnG?
Quote from Cantripmancer »And you should do a jig. You never know; it might be the tipping element.
Quote from Cantripmancer »I feel like literally nothing has progressed the game since I last posted, and I don't know what to do to fix that. I'm looking for: • A proposal from LnG (or discussion about potentials). • Rhand to feel better. • KJ to explain why he's asking Wisp a question that has been extensively discussed already. • Wisp to respond to Shadow's question. • Riku to provide content beyond "I'd probably send Wisp over Cantrip". (Yes, I know you're working on it.) • Shadow to dazzle me with something so townie it hurts. @Shadow: Who should LnG propose for the mission?