I agree with that. It's never that easy but coming in and just not focusing on anything relevant like that is a bad look. I just need more people to play. But I don't want to be accused of being lazy confirmed town in my second lease on life.
That was me being frustrated. You are leagues ahead of other people. Your mindset though, has me pulling my hair out. Even when you correctly had me as a wolf in Playstation day 1, it was like "Really, because you don't agree with me reads." My reaction there would have been identical if I was town.
I just want to play with people, but instead. I just get left alone. Life is such suffering and it makes me feel real sad. I just wish we had some more participation.
People who haven't caught up yet: Put that on hold, read through the end of day Rhand wagon and what's happened so far Today. Give opinions, then resume your catch up.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
First, I'm going to be V/LA this week. I forgot about posting it. I'll be available tonight and tomorrow, but Thurs-Sun I will be at minimum Limited in Access if not completely away.
Also Vaimes, what do you mean when you said you "want to" put GJ over Tau?
@EtR, why do you assume LW was the kill, instead of LW protecting successfully?
The telegraphing of the power role all day yesterday. I don't think based on the way things stood yesterday that anyone was a clear enough shot for LW to accurately predict the shot. I could be wrong, but the easiest answer is that they just shot LW.
@Vaimes, most likely scum on the wagon is between you, Tubba, kami and Rod. You didn't seem to care who the lynch was yesterday (of the three people you listed, two of them were the likely wagons anyways), Rod had a lazy jump and tried to push me for some asinine reason he pulled out of... a hat, Tubba has been somewhat floaty and non-committal, and Kami pretty much focused on Tau/EtR to the exclusion of everything else.
Vote kami I didn't listen to dead townies enough in Secret Agent mafia.
My biggest issue with EtR at the moment is the fact that he parked his vote on Rhand basically all day. That's why I asked whether that was a town or scum thing to do to park a vote on a townie all day.
I mean, theoretically, town are less likely to do that I would think? Scum would wanna put their votes where they can be the most useful. Parking it on someone who's pressure stopped being a thing at at least one point Yesterday seems like a wasted vote that's not like... actively helping his team?
I don't recall you asking me directly but I do believe it can be townie if that is who you most believe to be scum. In the event that it was coming to a no lynch I would move to prevent that. I actually think it's less likely for scum to just park a vote. They would need to remain fluid.
Lngrrr I'm giving a bit of slack for irl sickness but I'm not seeing scumminess that merits the level of attention he's been getting.
Kami I really dislike the way he's been pushing to solve EtR and Tauslot. There was something else I think but I'm not at a computer right now so I can't look.
Why is pushing to solve me and Tau bad in your opinion?
@KJ I'm confused by your statement of "Similarly, if EtR is Mafia, then he handled that really well. It's easier to assume he's not than assume he handled that in probably the best way he could. I just... can't see that being the case." when he's claiming he made a mistake in how he handled it (incorrectly signaling his targets). I can understand the argument that the way he handled it is townie, I can't really see an argument for he handled it in best practice for either alignment.
Not best practice so much as I'm just kind of incredulous that scum!EtR reacts like that instead of many more likely ways. Also I'm townreading him for making that mistake, if you'll recall.
Vez: I know you aren't individually townreading Grape but Grape does have a point... You seem to be hardtownreading me and that means that Grape is town. Leaving him off the town list has no purpose. Does that mean you're gonna try to lynch him if I'm still alive later? Like, scumreading Grape doesn't mesh with a townread on me at all.
Also, the reason I initially started scumreading you is you townread me too easily, and felt like you were too... appease-y. Just to put that out there.
%%%
Where are all the other people? Come on guys.
That's not the point. I fully agree that grape is town. I just don't read him as town on post analysis. He isn't off my town list, he is actually at the top. He is simply not being read as town.
Like there's a clear distinction in my head between people I'm reading in some way through analysis and what roles say about people. I wouldn't lynch grape at all unless it's proven by someone else that you aren't saying the truth.
You're also pretty ******* easy to read. You were one of the first townreads I got during my read of the game. I was also not in the game from the beginning so I don't really know why you think I should develop all my reads during the game when there was already a ton of content before I even had a chance to post. Maybe I'll re-evaluate late, but some reads are just that easy to make.
Vote Vez If you believe Grape is town and wouldn't lynch him, it really doesn't make sense, in my opinion to not include him in your Town list.
I've decided that I don't know how to read Vaimes. I couldn't in GB and I can't here. Any recommended reading?
This is where I'm at now. I'm going to do my best to review even if I can't make a good post the next few days.
I just want to say thanks to everyone for being patient with me and letting me catch up.
Starting with the largest events in the game, i have no reason to distrust KJ/Grape. Simplest explanation is that KJs telling the truth, and unless we get some news eventually to change that, a night action or something, I'm going to run with that. There's way too much wine in trying to go any deeper with it at this point.
Tau(highroller)/EtR is funny. Like it made me laugh out loud when reading it. Tau's energy and vigor when he posted that came off as completely genuine, he truly believed he had solved the game. While i dont think that to be the case, i believe he believed that and am putting him at likely town.
EtR is stranger. Saying that he missed the posting window so had to try to indicate the scumteam like he did, all awkward like, could have been him as scum frozen from what Tau was saying. He then waited until after the time was up, and saw an easy out instead of trying to actually discuss. But then do i think he outed his team? No he wouldn't go that far, something would have rang a bell and stopped before doing that. Could he have tried testing Tau with a fake team then? I guess? Idk i see ways of behaving in relation to Tau from town and scum that make sense, and what he did and said aren't really either so I'm just going to hedge my bet for now and try to resolve later outside of that event.
Relatedly, Kami harped on that gambit for way too long, there was no need to solve it then as he kept claiming. He was using that as a way to look more actice than he actually was, and while a couple people mentioned it he never really got called out for it. Saved him from having to comment or discuss other things happening in thread. Scumread
In other news, tom felt pretty town Day 1 where he was having fun with LW and rhe PR and was actually invested in solving the game. His attitude has changed today, maybe because LW was NKd and actually was a PR? Maybe he feels a bit regretful in pointing that out? I wouldn't expect Tom to care much about that though. Slight townlean, with my usual caveat that solving Tom is best done late in the game, he's far too good at being himself and getting into your head to figure him our with any certainty before then.
Vaimes looks pretty town to me, when he's actually around posting. Which isn't a problem specifically for him considering what like half the game is doing currently but still. He's capable of winning the game for us, his actual posts read true to me and his hunting feels genuine, so just do that more please and thank you. Townlean
Tubba kind of just pops in, says things that are a bit weird, and disappears again. Gives me the feeling of knowing he has to say something, posting a thought on the front of his head, and going back to the shadows after. Want to see more consistent posting out of him. Like 1702, GJ had pretty much already answered Tubbas question, but he still asked it. Comes across as trying to look active instead of actually caring about GJs answer. Scumlean
Rod i don't have enough on currently to say much, understand he has been away. Someone I need to investigate what is there to try an get some more of a read, also hopefully his time frees up soon too. Null
Vez comes in and is trying to his best to further the game along. Maybe he has said or phrased some things a bit weird but any negative attention just looks like people being bored and looking to bite on anything as opposed to something scummy from him. Townlean
GJ has me conflicted. There has been things he said that i really didn't like (the Vez sleep comment was lol) but hes also been trying to drag this game.forward despite most everyone elses activity level. He is definitely good enough of a player to see this gap and seize it to gain towncred, so not really willing to lock in town or anything crazy. But someone posting and being active is enough to get a pass for a while. Slight townlean
Lngrr has said things, but they don't really stick out in my head in any way. He also harped on EtR/TauRoller too long, even into today when its not going to be any more helpful than it was to try and speculate or figure more out there yesterday. Slight scumlean
DV has that energy that drives hum to hunt effectively, to the point where it can be almost combative. But i have found myself agreeing with him at various spots through the game, and combined with how he playing the game I'm prrtty confident in a townlean here.
I don't buy Vez as scum, especially not for that town list placing of Grape. Sure his logic is a bit odd, but I can see what he is saying, that he thinks Grape is acting scummy while knowing he isn't. Like Vez could put Grape in the town list, say the exact same.thing he said about him, and nobody would care. So are you really willing to vote and such for placement on a list?
I wouldn't do the same.with Grape that Vez did, but I can see it and understand it. And I don't think alignment indicative at all either fwiw
Although as far as Grape goes, I legit think he didn't care enough about the game, forgot, and then when called on it, double downed instead of just saying oops because he got self conscious. I think you are taking the situation too literally.
That was me being frustrated. You are leagues ahead of other people. Your mindset though, has me pulling my hair out. Even when you correctly had me as a wolf in Playstation day 1, it was like "Really, because you don't agree with me reads." My reaction there would have been identical if I was town.
I just want to play with people, but instead. I just get left alone. Life is such suffering and it makes me feel real sad. I just wish we had some more participation.
I just have a weird style I guess. I garner a ton of scum reads every game I'm in but am usually able to post my way out of them. And I have a decent enough success rate that I don't feel the need to change. As for playstation it was slightly more nuanced that not agreeing with my reads, but not by much. Had to do with your reads seeming consensus-y and pre-opportunistic. But that really isn't relevant.
@EtR try Bare Bones or Friends and enemies for an idea of town!Vaimes. I can't think of any scum games of his off hand.
I don't buy Vez as scum, especially not for that town list placing of Grape. Sure his logic is a bit odd, but I can see what he is saying, that he thinks Grape is acting scummy while knowing he isn't. Like Vez could put Grape in the town list, say the exact same.thing he said about him, and nobody would care. So are you really willing to vote and such for placement on a list?
I wouldn't do the same.with Grape that Vez did, but I can see it and understand it. And I don't think alignment indicative at all either fwiw
Remind me to get back to this later.
Anyway on your reads can you point me to specific DV things you found yourself agreeing with please. I'm seeing a lot of people making the general read you're making and I am beginning to accept it must be correct, but I can't wrap my head around it.
How do you claim to be starving for interaction and when given an opportunity for some, you just rebuff it? Is there only certain interactions you’re interested in? Why did you just shade me instead of engaging me?
It is hard to do more than pop in when I look at the thread after 8 hours or so and there's two pages of GJ and GF going back and forth on random musings.
@EtR, cant find it now, but Vaimes said something to the effect he was ok with lynching me, Rhand or ... EtR I think? Might have been Kami. Anyway, at least two were the main wagons at the time. Also, Vaimes felt more towny overall in Secret Agent mafia that just ended.
I have more to say but my 2 year old is demanding the phone. Will do more later.
If my question is so pointless, than what’s the harm in answering it?
I didn't say it was pointless, I was saying to read the ******* game. I posted three wolf reads, you asked me 3 people to shoot. You haven't been doing enough for me to give you the play by play every time you grace the thread with your presence.
How do you claim to be starving for interaction and when given an opportunity for some, you just rebuff it? Is there only certain interactions you’re interested in? Why did you just shade me instead of engaging me?
Like, you think I am rebuffing you? I am telling you to actually pretend you give a ***** about this game. If you literally look back a single page, I said my team looked like Kami/LnGrrr/Vezok/+1. Which 3 players would I shoot? WELL GEE, I ******* WONDER...
Would shoot all 3, and hope for 3 ******* wolves, or 3 less people that are problems in PoE. From there, if Kami flips town, I start scrutinizing EtR. The others flipping town, I don't know.
Actively hunting and interacting more than the rest of you lot combined, and he has the ******* balls to say I am not hunting.
It is hard to do more than pop in when I look at the thread after 8 hours or so and there's two pages of GJ and GF going back and forth on random musings.
@EtR, cant find it now, but Vaimes said something to the effect he was ok with lynching me, Rhand or ... EtR I think? Might have been Kami. Anyway, at least two were the main wagons at the time. Also, Vaimes felt more towny overall in Secret Agent mafia that just ended.
I have more to say but my 2 year old is demanding the phone. Will do more later.
It's pretty god damn easy, actually. Iso a wolfy player. Respond to some point made at you behind, or ignore all that and give a live read. What do you think of Anak?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Primary reason to have him so high is mindmelds. Im a bit still rolling with "this feels like being v/v in disinheritance" amd maybe giving it too much weight. So good to go through.
Think im keeping him as lock town though. The general profile of walking through the thread and then getting stuck on something. Its definitely a thing scumdv can fake but the way hes doing it here comes off so natural to me.
And then the stances themselves, the things it would be easy for him to just reflexively push but no. With etr, with kami, even with mindreaver somewhere in that inane back and forth, hes finding ways to come to terms with what they're doing despite his instincts
And i just dont know why scumdv bothers basically
Talked about why i thought mind was scum yesterday, anak not making it better
To continue from before when he got caught up and didnt drop a vote or say anything...
I just want to say thanks to everyone for being patient with me and letting me catch up.
Starting with the largest events in the game, i have no reason to distrust KJ/Grape. Simplest explanation is that KJs telling the truth, and unless we get some news eventually to change that, a night action or something, I'm going to run with that. There's way too much wine in trying to go any deeper with it at this point.
Tau(highroller)/EtR is funny. Like it made me laugh out loud when reading it. Tau's energy and vigor when he posted that came off as completely genuine, he truly believed he had solved the game. While i dont think that to be the case, i believe he believed that and am putting him at likely town.
EtR is stranger. Saying that he missed the posting window so had to try to indicate the scumteam like he did, all awkward like, could have been him as scum frozen from what Tau was saying. He then waited until after the time was up, and saw an easy out instead of trying to actually discuss. But then do i think he outed his team? No he wouldn't go that far, something would have rang a bell and stopped before doing that. Could he have tried testing Tau with a fake team then? I guess? Idk i see ways of behaving in relation to Tau from town and scum that make sense, and what he did and said aren't really either so I'm just going to hedge my bet for now and try to resolve later outside of that event.
Relatedly, Kami harped on that gambit for way too long, there was no need to solve it then as he kept claiming. He was using that as a way to look more actice than he actually was, and while a couple people mentioned it he never really got called out for it. Saved him from having to comment or discuss other things happening in thread. Scumread
In other news, tom felt pretty town Day 1 where he was having fun with LW and rhe PR and was actually invested in solving the game. His attitude has changed today, maybe because LW was NKd and actually was a PR? Maybe he feels a bit regretful in pointing that out? I wouldn't expect Tom to care much about that though. Slight townlean, with my usual caveat that solving Tom is best done late in the game, he's far too good at being himself and getting into your head to figure him our with any certainty before then.
Vaimes looks pretty town to me, when he's actually around posting. Which isn't a problem specifically for him considering what like half the game is doing currently but still. He's capable of winning the game for us, his actual posts read true to me and his hunting feels genuine, so just do that more please and thank you. Townlean
Tubba kind of just pops in, says things that are a bit weird, and disappears again. Gives me the feeling of knowing he has to say something, posting a thought on the front of his head, and going back to the shadows after. Want to see more consistent posting out of him. Like 1702, GJ had pretty much already answered Tubbas question, but he still asked it. Comes across as trying to look active instead of actually caring about GJs answer. Scumlean
Rod i don't have enough on currently to say much, understand he has been away. Someone I need to investigate what is there to try an get some more of a read, also hopefully his time frees up soon too. Null
Vez comes in and is trying to his best to further the game along. Maybe he has said or phrased some things a bit weird but any negative attention just looks like people being bored and looking to bite on anything as opposed to something scummy from him. Townlean
GJ has me conflicted. There has been things he said that i really didn't like (the Vez sleep comment was lol) but hes also been trying to drag this game.forward despite most everyone elses activity level. He is definitely good enough of a player to see this gap and seize it to gain towncred, so not really willing to lock in town or anything crazy. But someone posting and being active is enough to get a pass for a while. Slight townlean
Lngrr has said things, but they don't really stick out in my head in any way. He also harped on EtR/TauRoller too long, even into today when its not going to be any more helpful than it was to try and speculate or figure more out there yesterday. Slight scumlean
DV has that energy that drives hum to hunt effectively, to the point where it can be almost combative. But i have found myself agreeing with him at various spots through the game, and combined with how he playing the game I'm prrtty confident in a townlean here.
Also I've decided to combine kj and grape into one entity. And put it on my readslist in the placement of "combined likelihood theyre scumbuddies ridiculously tied together + grape godfather + kj is wolf and [something]"
Think it's slightly higher than dv being a wolf
Vezok is a quick iso, and not that interesting. Hes got some pretty milquetoast stances, except the rhand push that he overfocused on. Could be scum staying out of most things but pushing the mislynch through. But his desire to be understood is kinda a good look.
And for the record, answering who he thought was town over who hes forced to accept as town mechanically is viable, and im not sure what anyone thinks is the scummy motivation for leaving grape off the townreads list anyway. That post he got voted for seems pretty meaningless to me. Still putting him as a scumlean but ime people getting pushed for reasons like that are usually mislynches.
DV: You probably know Tom's scum game better than me. And I recall you being if the opinion that this was town solve Tom we're seeing. Compare and contrast town solve Tom vs. Scum Tom trying to drive the game/lynches the way he wants? And can you help show me that's not him this game?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
It is mostly true, there was one game where Tom thought I was scum and was wrong (pretty sure it was Disinheritance) and some micro somewhere where I was scum and he was town reading me when we killed him. Tom might remember better than I. Those are exceptions to the general rule of Tom reading me like a book.
Also sup Tom. How are things? Why is anything you said alignment indicative for me? I will freely admit my catch-up post was a bit checklist-y, simply because it was a catch-up post. I wanted to get my thoughts out on everyone and current read of them, and post a T/S list for ordering purposes. Took me over an hour to do, so yeah maybe it didn't have quite the same emotion, but I sat down with the mentality of getting something done instead of eagerly commenting on some specific thing.
I feel like you are taking your scumreads of Mind and are trying to fit me into that box instead of just reading me naturally.
@Vez what exactly is kinda icky, like who or what is that in reference to? Me. GJ, both?
Also hey look Tubba had another pop in, says something weird, this time a meme that doesn't make sense to go with it.
Technically, my read is more on mindreaver than on anak. But if by the end of the day i still want to lynch him im cool with being held accountable for it
But, like, im accountable for all my reads not just anak (and vaimes) who i almost always get right
I don't recall you asking me directly but I do believe it can be townie if that is who you most believe to be scum. In the event that it was coming to a no lynch I would move to prevent that. I actually think it's less likely for scum to just park a vote. They would need to remain fluid.
I didn't ask you because you're obviously going to be biased since you did it. I was hoping for an outside opinion that's not just you telling me you think you're town for something you did.
It seems more -EV for scum IMO. So it might make you town?
Quote from "EtR 1711" »
Why is pushing to solve me and Tau bad in your opinion?
Because solving you guys means one or both of you have to die. Which, since I have various levels of townreads on the two of you, I disagree with. If you are both town, or you're town (since both Tubba and Kami were leaning towards you scum Tau town) then scum!Tubba and scum!Kami get one/two dead town. Although in the latter case, if Tauslot is scum and they stop pushing after town!you dies then that's suspect.
Question: What do you think of Tubba/Kami's scumread of you over Tau? Are they being fair about it? Are either of them trying to force a scumread instead of it being natural? Something along those lines?
Anak: Why Kami over Tubba, given Tubba's similar thoughts towards solving EtR/Tau?
GJ: Re: 1715: Wait. Are you still doubting me? This reads like you still think I'm lying.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
no, that was in response to Anak about Vezok. I was saying I think Vezok just showed he isn't caring about the game, double downed on his "not town reading grape, only KJ."
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
DV: You probably know Tom's scum game better than me. And I recall you being if the opinion that this was town solve Tom we're seeing. Compare and contrast town solve Tom vs. Scum Tom trying to drive the game/lynches the way he wants? And can you help show me that's not him this game?
I'm not sure I have the best read on scum Tom. I caught him once, but I'm wondering if that reason was more a fluke than anything.
MY best guess is scum Tom, leaves options open. But that isn't entirely true either.
This game, I feel pretty confident on him being town and its the exact reason he quoted for me. Mindmelds. Toms said a lot of things where I've been thinking the exact same thing.
Also, I need to read that Anak post, but I haven't yet. Grumble Grumble.
It is mostly true, there was one game where Tom thought I was scum and was wrong (pretty sure it was Disinheritance) and some micro somewhere where I was scum and he was town reading me when we killed him. Tom might remember better than I. Those are exceptions to the general rule of Tom reading me like a book.
Also sup Tom. How are things? Why is anything you said alignment indicative for me? I will freely admit my catch-up post was a bit checklist-y, simply because it was a catch-up post. I wanted to get my thoughts out on everyone and current read of them, and post a T/S list for ordering purposes. Took me over an hour to do, so yeah maybe it didn't have quite the same emotion, but I sat down with the mentality of getting something done instead of eagerly commenting on some specific thing.
I feel like you are taking your scumreads of Mind and are trying to fit me into that box instead of just reading me naturally.
@Vez what exactly is kinda icky, like who or what is that in reference to? Me. GJ, both?
Also hey look Tubba had another pop in, says something weird, this time a meme that doesn't make sense to go with it.
Trash me as a mafia player all you want. Bring my meme game into this and it’s gonna get supes real, supes fast.
How about elaborating on my scumminess instead of bandwagoning onto how pointless I am. What post(s) in my ISO is making you think “Die Scum!”?
I see you push Kami for something I also did, but you don’t mention that in your initial scumlean of me. What’s different in those cases?
I don't recall you asking me directly but I do believe it can be townie if that is who you most believe to be scum. In the event that it was coming to a no lynch I would move to prevent that. I actually think it's less likely for scum to just park a vote. They would need to remain fluid.
I didn't ask you because you're obviously going to be biased since you did it. I was hoping for an outside opinion that's not just you telling me you think you're town for something you did.
It seems more -EV for scum IMO. So it might make you town?
Quote from "EtR 1711" »
Why is pushing to solve me and Tau bad in your opinion?
Because solving you guys means one or both of you have to die. Which, since I have various levels of townreads on the two of you, I disagree with. If you are both town, or you're town (since both Tubba and Kami were leaning towards you scum Tau town) then scum!Tubba and scum!Kami get one/two dead town. Although in the latter case, if Tauslot is scum and they stop pushing after town!you dies then that's suspect.
Question: What do you think of Tubba/Kami's scumread of you over Tau? Are they being fair about it? Are either of them trying to force a scumread instead of it being natural? Something along those lines?
Anak: Why Kami over Tubba, given Tubba's similar thoughts towards solving EtR/Tau?
GJ: Re: 1715: Wait. Are you still doubting me? This reads like you still think I'm lying.
I can't fault someone for buying in to all the bluster from Tau initially. I've disliked Kami's read as he was too sure, but I actually think it makes him more likely to be town. I feel like scum would have been more measured. Since I know that I'm going to flip town, I don't see why scum would be THAT adamant.
For Tubba, he's pushing it from a different direction. It feels more like trying to push a lynch than trying to solve a problem. (not that Kami was trying to solve a problem)
DV: You probably know Tom's scum game better than me. And I recall you being if the opinion that this was town solve Tom we're seeing. Compare and contrast town solve Tom vs. Scum Tom trying to drive the game/lynches the way he wants? And can you help show me that's not him this game?
I'm not sure I have the best read on scum Tom. I caught him once, but I'm wondering if that reason was more a fluke than anything.
MY best guess is scum Tom, leaves options open. But that isn't entirely true either.
This game, I feel pretty confident on him being town and its the exact reason he quoted for me. Mindmelds. Toms said a lot of things where I've been thinking the exact same thing.
Also, I need to read that Anak post, but I haven't yet. Grumble Grumble.
I'm coming off on mindmelds being a good tell.
Was it you that said he was town for how he was solving? I thought that was you.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Grant me a gatling gun vig ability please.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Shot#1? And why.
Shot#2? And why.
Shot#3? And why.
Assume you must make all shots at once.
Look a few posts back and take a look at my wolf reads, I have exactly three.
Anything else to add to this riveting standstill we appear to be at?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I at least want to see these replacements come in and do something. Too many question marks in the game right now.
But yes.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Which is really problematic because I don't think Kami/Tubba/LnGrrr are all wolves, but when all they do is wolfy pop ins.....like, I can't even.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I just want to play with people, but instead. I just get left alone. Life is such suffering and it makes me feel real sad. I just wish we had some more participation.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
People who haven't caught up yet: Put that on hold, read through the end of day Rhand wagon and what's happened so far Today. Give opinions, then resume your catch up.
To get SOMETHING happening here.
Hoping to make a far more substantial post tomorrow.
The telegraphing of the power role all day yesterday. I don't think based on the way things stood yesterday that anyone was a clear enough shot for LW to accurately predict the shot. I could be wrong, but the easiest answer is that they just shot LW.
My case on him is here I mostly believed that he was hedging on everything and his jump onto my wagon was really weak.
Can you demonstrate this via quotes?
I don't recall you asking me directly but I do believe it can be townie if that is who you most believe to be scum. In the event that it was coming to a no lynch I would move to prevent that. I actually think it's less likely for scum to just park a vote. They would need to remain fluid.
Why is pushing to solve me and Tau bad in your opinion?
Vote Vez If you believe Grape is town and wouldn't lynch him, it really doesn't make sense, in my opinion to not include him in your Town list.
I've decided that I don't know how to read Vaimes. I couldn't in GB and I can't here. Any recommended reading?
This is where I'm at now. I'm going to do my best to review even if I can't make a good post the next few days.
Starting with the largest events in the game, i have no reason to distrust KJ/Grape. Simplest explanation is that KJs telling the truth, and unless we get some news eventually to change that, a night action or something, I'm going to run with that. There's way too much wine in trying to go any deeper with it at this point.
Tau(highroller)/EtR is funny. Like it made me laugh out loud when reading it. Tau's energy and vigor when he posted that came off as completely genuine, he truly believed he had solved the game. While i dont think that to be the case, i believe he believed that and am putting him at likely town.
EtR is stranger. Saying that he missed the posting window so had to try to indicate the scumteam like he did, all awkward like, could have been him as scum frozen from what Tau was saying. He then waited until after the time was up, and saw an easy out instead of trying to actually discuss. But then do i think he outed his team? No he wouldn't go that far, something would have rang a bell and stopped before doing that. Could he have tried testing Tau with a fake team then? I guess? Idk i see ways of behaving in relation to Tau from town and scum that make sense, and what he did and said aren't really either so I'm just going to hedge my bet for now and try to resolve later outside of that event.
Relatedly, Kami harped on that gambit for way too long, there was no need to solve it then as he kept claiming. He was using that as a way to look more actice than he actually was, and while a couple people mentioned it he never really got called out for it. Saved him from having to comment or discuss other things happening in thread. Scumread
In other news, tom felt pretty town Day 1 where he was having fun with LW and rhe PR and was actually invested in solving the game. His attitude has changed today, maybe because LW was NKd and actually was a PR? Maybe he feels a bit regretful in pointing that out? I wouldn't expect Tom to care much about that though. Slight townlean, with my usual caveat that solving Tom is best done late in the game, he's far too good at being himself and getting into your head to figure him our with any certainty before then.
Vaimes looks pretty town to me, when he's actually around posting. Which isn't a problem specifically for him considering what like half the game is doing currently but still. He's capable of winning the game for us, his actual posts read true to me and his hunting feels genuine, so just do that more please and thank you. Townlean
Tubba kind of just pops in, says things that are a bit weird, and disappears again. Gives me the feeling of knowing he has to say something, posting a thought on the front of his head, and going back to the shadows after. Want to see more consistent posting out of him. Like 1702, GJ had pretty much already answered Tubbas question, but he still asked it. Comes across as trying to look active instead of actually caring about GJs answer. Scumlean
Rod i don't have enough on currently to say much, understand he has been away. Someone I need to investigate what is there to try an get some more of a read, also hopefully his time frees up soon too. Null
Vez comes in and is trying to his best to further the game along. Maybe he has said or phrased some things a bit weird but any negative attention just looks like people being bored and looking to bite on anything as opposed to something scummy from him. Townlean
GJ has me conflicted. There has been things he said that i really didn't like (the Vez sleep comment was lol) but hes also been trying to drag this game.forward despite most everyone elses activity level. He is definitely good enough of a player to see this gap and seize it to gain towncred, so not really willing to lock in town or anything crazy. But someone posting and being active is enough to get a pass for a while. Slight townlean
Lngrr has said things, but they don't really stick out in my head in any way. He also harped on EtR/TauRoller too long, even into today when its not going to be any more helpful than it was to try and speculate or figure more out there yesterday. Slight scumlean
DV has that energy that drives hum to hunt effectively, to the point where it can be almost combative. But i have found myself agreeing with him at various spots through the game, and combined with how he playing the game I'm prrtty confident in a townlean here.
So T/S order would look something like
KJ/Grape
Highroller/DV/Vaimes/
GJ/Vez
Rod/Tom
ErR/lngrrR
Kami/Tubba
Happy to go into more depth on any reads or specifics from above, wanted to get my thoughts out there.
Vote Kami
I wouldn't do the same.with Grape that Vez did, but I can see it and understand it. And I don't think alignment indicative at all either fwiw
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I just have a weird style I guess. I garner a ton of scum reads every game I'm in but am usually able to post my way out of them. And I have a decent enough success rate that I don't feel the need to change. As for playstation it was slightly more nuanced that not agreeing with my reads, but not by much. Had to do with your reads seeming consensus-y and pre-opportunistic. But that really isn't relevant.
@EtR try Bare Bones or Friends and enemies for an idea of town!Vaimes. I can't think of any scum games of his off hand.
Remind me to get back to this later.
Anyway on your reads can you point me to specific DV things you found yourself agreeing with please. I'm seeing a lot of people making the general read you're making and I am beginning to accept it must be correct, but I can't wrap my head around it.
vote anaklusmos
@EtR, cant find it now, but Vaimes said something to the effect he was ok with lynching me, Rhand or ... EtR I think? Might have been Kami. Anyway, at least two were the main wagons at the time. Also, Vaimes felt more towny overall in Secret Agent mafia that just ended.
I have more to say but my 2 year old is demanding the phone. Will do more later.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I didn't say it was pointless, I was saying to read the ******* game. I posted three wolf reads, you asked me 3 people to shoot. You haven't been doing enough for me to give you the play by play every time you grace the thread with your presence.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The two aren't mutually exclusive.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Like, you think I am rebuffing you? I am telling you to actually pretend you give a ***** about this game. If you literally look back a single page, I said my team looked like Kami/LnGrrr/Vezok/+1. Which 3 players would I shoot? WELL GEE, I ******* WONDER...
Would shoot all 3, and hope for 3 ******* wolves, or 3 less people that are problems in PoE. From there, if Kami flips town, I start scrutinizing EtR. The others flipping town, I don't know.
Actively hunting and interacting more than the rest of you lot combined, and he has the ******* balls to say I am not hunting.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
It's pretty god damn easy, actually. Iso a wolfy player. Respond to some point made at you behind, or ignore all that and give a live read. What do you think of Anak?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Primary reason to have him so high is mindmelds. Im a bit still rolling with "this feels like being v/v in disinheritance" amd maybe giving it too much weight. So good to go through.
Think im keeping him as lock town though. The general profile of walking through the thread and then getting stuck on something. Its definitely a thing scumdv can fake but the way hes doing it here comes off so natural to me.
And then the stances themselves, the things it would be easy for him to just reflexively push but no. With etr, with kami, even with mindreaver somewhere in that inane back and forth, hes finding ways to come to terms with what they're doing despite his instincts
And i just dont know why scumdv bothers basically
To continue from before when he got caught up and didnt drop a vote or say anything...
What read in here is anak excited about?
these reads are easy. Its going through a checklist of what his opinions should be.
I see no sign that anything struck him here. Nope, these are my reads hi fellas arent they nice
Think it's slightly higher than dv being a wolf
Vezok is a quick iso, and not that interesting. Hes got some pretty milquetoast stances, except the rhand push that he overfocused on. Could be scum staying out of most things but pushing the mislynch through. But his desire to be understood is kinda a good look.
And for the record, answering who he thought was town over who hes forced to accept as town mechanically is viable, and im not sure what anyone thinks is the scummy motivation for leaving grape off the townreads list anyway. That post he got voted for seems pretty meaningless to me. Still putting him as a scumlean but ime people getting pushed for reasons like that are usually mislynches.
dv
grapejoy
highroller
kami
ETR/vez
johnny
anak
DV: You probably know Tom's scum game better than me. And I recall you being if the opinion that this was town solve Tom we're seeing. Compare and contrast town solve Tom vs. Scum Tom trying to drive the game/lynches the way he wants? And can you help show me that's not him this game?
I didn't really hate the list anak posted, but GJ's comment right up with liking him is kinda icky.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
It’s close enough
Did you play Low Fantasy Mafia?
Also sup Tom. How are things? Why is anything you said alignment indicative for me? I will freely admit my catch-up post was a bit checklist-y, simply because it was a catch-up post. I wanted to get my thoughts out on everyone and current read of them, and post a T/S list for ordering purposes. Took me over an hour to do, so yeah maybe it didn't have quite the same emotion, but I sat down with the mentality of getting something done instead of eagerly commenting on some specific thing.
I feel like you are taking your scumreads of Mind and are trying to fit me into that box instead of just reading me naturally.
@Vez what exactly is kinda icky, like who or what is that in reference to? Me. GJ, both?
Also hey look Tubba had another pop in, says something weird, this time a meme that doesn't make sense to go with it.
But, like, im accountable for all my reads not just anak (and vaimes) who i almost always get right
It seems more -EV for scum IMO. So it might make you town?
Because solving you guys means one or both of you have to die. Which, since I have various levels of townreads on the two of you, I disagree with. If you are both town, or you're town (since both Tubba and Kami were leaning towards you scum Tau town) then scum!Tubba and scum!Kami get one/two dead town. Although in the latter case, if Tauslot is scum and they stop pushing after town!you dies then that's suspect.
Question: What do you think of Tubba/Kami's scumread of you over Tau? Are they being fair about it? Are either of them trying to force a scumread instead of it being natural? Something along those lines?
Anak: Why Kami over Tubba, given Tubba's similar thoughts towards solving EtR/Tau?
GJ: Re: 1715: Wait. Are you still doubting me? This reads like you still think I'm lying.
no, that was in response to Anak about Vezok. I was saying I think Vezok just showed he isn't caring about the game, double downed on his "not town reading grape, only KJ."
The GJ way path to no lynching:
While you're here GJ. You have one Oracle shot. You give the mood a post number and they tell you true or false. Which post and why?
Anak/High roller: Same to you Also Vez.
Double dichotomy between etr/DV.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
See you in 2 months then.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I'm not sure I have the best read on scum Tom. I caught him once, but I'm wondering if that reason was more a fluke than anything.
MY best guess is scum Tom, leaves options open. But that isn't entirely true either.
This game, I feel pretty confident on him being town and its the exact reason he quoted for me. Mindmelds. Toms said a lot of things where I've been thinking the exact same thing.
Also, I need to read that Anak post, but I haven't yet. Grumble Grumble.
Trash me as a mafia player all you want. Bring my meme game into this and it’s gonna get supes real, supes fast.
How about elaborating on my scumminess instead of bandwagoning onto how pointless I am. What post(s) in my ISO is making you think “Die Scum!”?
I see you push Kami for something I also did, but you don’t mention that in your initial scumlean of me. What’s different in those cases?
I can't fault someone for buying in to all the bluster from Tau initially. I've disliked Kami's read as he was too sure, but I actually think it makes him more likely to be town. I feel like scum would have been more measured. Since I know that I'm going to flip town, I don't see why scum would be THAT adamant.
For Tubba, he's pushing it from a different direction. It feels more like trying to push a lynch than trying to solve a problem. (not that Kami was trying to solve a problem)
Was it you that said he was town for how he was solving? I thought that was you.
I just got back from vacation and I have THE PLAGUE
i am also moving into my new place on friday, and i have class tomorrow.
I plan on posting again on saturday. I'll do a bit of reading here and there til then.
Now, i am gonna sleep.