@kami
its always just wine, regardless of ETR's flip, and I dont honestly think you believe if ETR was scum, he just outs his whole scum team, especially since im town, and im not saying none of that group could be scum but im gunna look at them through other means, and not evaluate them through wine
@dv
Yes and in every game he was town, and I tunneled on him
wanna say this is wrong?
Wasnt he scum in one of the token power micros?
Anyway hes got scum equity especially with etr. If etr is town, he just wasted time with associatives that wont come up. which can come from scum with nothing else to talk about but dont think it actively points to that
I mean I humored it in previous posts and even told Grape I agree whwre you are coming from... But I think it's more likely that if Tau is scum, then kami is always scum here
The only way I could see etr/kami being scum together, was if he knew without a doubt that ETR was gonna be lock scum from the Gambit, and saw no way of saving him
And I don't believe kami was scum in any of the tokens...
In the first token it was wuffles and grape/riku
well... ghostbusters then.
Lol
Could maybe see w/w with tau and just trying to hammer that lynch home, but with etr his posting feels a lot more agenda-y
From only reading the page before hand, tom is almost certainly a wolf.
ah yes, you still think im readable based on seriousness.
Nice
Nothing on this site or mu, including the last turbo has given me reason to think otherwise.
would you like to see the scumgame that i played only in gifs? Or the one where i only posted in idioms til lylo? How about the towngame where i cosplayed as voxx? The towngame on dlp where i went full transparency because i got tired of them lynching me for ***** reasons?
It was never a good read, even if i wasnt painfully self aware. Newcomb spent about a year reading me literally the opposite way under the theory thst i enjoy playing scum much much more and that didnt work either.
I play how i want. I troll based on whos in the game with me and thread health.
Git gud
I say we respect Tom as a player, and instead naturally try to solve him, the reason I left my community was for this exact reason, b/c I was seen as a joke, no matter what I did, the way I thought always put me in the line of fire day one, and I was sick of it, and you know what? I caught 3 out of 4 of the scum day 1, and still lost because of mediocracy and lurkers
I say we respect Tom as a player, and instead naturally try to solve him, the reason I left my community was for this exact reason, b/c I was seen as a joke, no matter what I did, the way I thought always put me in the line of fire day one, and I was sick of it, and you know what? I caught 3 out of 4 of the scum day 1, and still lost because of mediocracy and lurkers
sounds like me on dlp lol.
Ive literally been lynched more times there in 15 games than the ~75 ive played here
I say we respect Tom as a player, and instead naturally try to solve him, the reason I left my community was for this exact reason, b/c I was seen as a joke, no matter what I did, the way I thought always put me in the line of fire day one, and I was sick of it, and you know what? I caught 3 out of 4 of the scum day 1, and still lost because of mediocracy and lurkers
It's how you come across. Please don't take the following as a flame if you are watching or look back Iso, or LW.
Good town finds wolves
GOAT town gets other townies to vote wolves
Iso was ******* great at the former. Like, one of the strongest cold wolf callers out there.
He was abysmal at the latter. Think about how many players knew Iso was a super strong hunter, and even when he would flip town, would still go their own way.
I joke with tom, I have talked with him in spectators, he also admitted he has other games (just never games I am in apparently). There are other independent things that make him wolfy or townie, so please don't assume I am solo reading him wolf for that. I am still working through my response to a few people.
I also don't particularly like KJ. His comment about EtR being fast, doesn't read super genuine to me. It reads like either trying to slow a buddy wagon down, or get credit for a potential town read. WIll be watching that slot in a bit, continuing my reread.
I respect tom as a player LW, and even tom himself can tell you that. We play very well together.
I say we respect Tom as a player, and instead naturally try to solve him, the reason I left my community was for this exact reason, b/c I was seen as a joke, no matter what I did, the way I thought always put me in the line of fire day one, and I was sick of it, and you know what? I caught 3 out of 4 of the scum day 1, and still lost because of mediocracy and lurkers
sounds like me on dlp lol.
Ive literally been lynched more times there in 15 games than the ~75 ive played here
Yeah, I have been mislynched once in my entire career here.
Over there, yikes. But since mtgs really doesn't have a CFD meta, makes sense. I think 30-40% of my mislynches were last second cfds...
The only time I caught Tom as scum, was in the turbo the other night when in my opinion he made it blatantly obvious based on his evaluation of me, but I self-hammered because I just didnt have the patient to explain anything when I was put into L1 by two wolfs and a bad town, as soon as the second day phase started, actually you were in that game @GJ
The only time I caught Tom as scum, was in the turbo the other night when in my opinion he made it blatantly obvious based on his evaluation of me, but I self-hammered because I just didnt have the patient to explain anything when I was put into L1 by two wolfs and a bad town, as soon as the second day phase started, actually you were in that game @GJ
Oh, you're wisp on MU?
You seemed so different, I didn't even think about it.
Also, yeah IDK about KA. I still think he's likely town? His logic I can see coming from town. I think its bad logic, and I think its low effort, but its what I expect from him.
Do you think its problematic that this town seems to be playing their own games?
I think Mindreaver and Tubba are objectively highly scummy for their pushes. Yet most players are just like posting thoughts about weird ***** and not engaging anyone.
Rhand seems to have barely read the thread(But I'll give him some benefit of the doubt I guess).
KJ strikes me as a wet noodle this game, but that claim seemed pretty townie.
I think that's what you're seeing in KA? Its a little bloodlust too, but I think you're just seeing him sort of push this one narrative.
But that's like all the player has ever shown he can do, he's had zero growth in any of his games so to me he's just KA. Its not really a scum or town tell to me.
I'm not opposed to Tubba either, but lets consolidate in some way.
4 days into a normal seems early to talk about consolidating tbh.
@kami i literally cant think of a less insulting way of saying "believes in a crackpot theory i know to be factually inaccurate"
Does naive have a negative connotation im unaware of?
I'm not opposed to Tubba either, but lets consolidate in some way.
4 days into a normal seems early to talk about consolidating tbh.
@kami i literally cant think of a less insulting way of saying "believes in a crackpot theory i know to be factually inaccurate"
Does naive have a negative connotation im unaware of?
I like funTom more than meanTom.
It’s not the words you’re using but the way you’re using them. Couched between D_V’s acidity it comes across more mean spirited than perhaps intended.
Hes prolly a PR worried about looking bad and tryharding. If i were scum id kill him early
@mafia
this is super gross. Unvote, Vote Tom #riprvs
I really don't like the follow up convo with whisper either. But I do appreciate getting the Rhand and Grape defenses, that will make PoE easier down the line.
sure whatever. This could be town mindreaver either actually finding this scummy because hes forgotten me completely, or wanting to pressure me because... hes forgotten me completely. Lol.
Thats not scummy from me (or in general) and pressuring me doesnt do *****. But whatever its possible...
I mean, the option that goes along with him not believing it is just saying stuff to go with blustery confidence im scum so you should wait to see if he just keeps pushing me and looking for connections or is actually thinking things through
But now you have to watch how he reacts to being called out too so that should be fun
Jesus Tom. You're spilling all the beans.
I count probably 8 or 9 people in this thread that I know, that know Tom well enough, to know that we aren't gonna get a good read on him in the first few pages, even when he does something ridiculously scummy. Fair enough?
So is it necessary to actually say that in thread?
Now, the only two people who spoke up about that fact, when Tom did his PR-fishing (which wasn't helpful, especially because the follow up made it super obvious he found one (or did he? Or does LW want scum to think so? WIFOM fo dayz)) were Grape and Rhand.
So in the worlds where I see Tom is scum, doing some kind of weirdo gambit (which to be fair is in his wheelhouse), I don't see Rhand proclaiming him town and also being a scumbuddy. I think that we would see buddies distancing themselves from something like that, which makes Grape's defense a little harder to swallow (he's probably town, BUT TWO RED FLAGS). That's a fence sit if I've ever seen one. Combined with his opportunistic 4th vote on LW, to keep that wagon rolling, doesn't look good.
In the world where Tom is town and is just being Tom, Rhand's read is probably not alignment indicative either way. Scum could be buddying, or town could just be not "reading tom at level 0". Grape's comment still looks gross. Like "here is a little shade for tom, who is probably town"? I don't think that comes from town mindset. Like, I just don't see how it's helpful to state that.
Anyway, my take-away at the moment was I don't like Grape.
So my question for Grape is, when will you share what these red flags are? Can it be now?
but hey look at that it was neither of those things. He clearly realized he cant get away with that read, and it wasnt pressure for pressures sake or he doesnt give it up that early.
So lets transition that awkwardly into jumping on the growing grape wagon, while lightly leaking that hes paying attention to my rolehunting in a professional capacity.
Then he pops back in after the grape wagon got even bigger because rhand meta, and... doesnt even comment on grape who he thinks is scum only mentions it in passing while vaguely attacking wisp eho he thinks is town PR
Then in response to tau/etr
"In any case, ETR and Tau can't both be telling the truth right now."
Which... a) i think is second most likely and b) has a ton of scum motivation in several possible combinations
I guess this is where i note that i kinda like his read on kami, and they're not super likely partners
Rhand - I had you higher as a townread, but I don't quite know what D_V's attack on your signifies. Gut feel was scum busing.
<snip>
D_V - Your entrance was a vast improvement in the slot, but I have to say "remember when" is the lowest form of conversation. Instead of taking on Tau/ETR with your own opinions, you're telling us about all the other games and gambits and other people's opinions. That doesn't ring true for me.
these two reads taken together is just pure agenda
I like funTom more than meanTom.
It’s not the words you’re using but the way you’re using them. Couched between D_V’s acidity it comes across more mean spirited than perhaps intended.
You can retract this statement since I've done nothing of the sort.
@Tom
so you think this is more of a case of Kami actually just believes that and not so much that he is scum pushing an agenda? I guess I can buy that more for now since you have more experience with Kami then I do
@Tom
so you think this is more of a case of Kami actually just believes that and not so much that he is scum pushing an agenda? I guess I can buy that more for now since you have more experience with Kami then I do
@Tom
so you think this is more of a case of Kami actually just believes that and not so much that he is scum pushing an agenda? I guess I can buy that more for now since you have more experience with Kami then I do
Okay I just ISO'd tubba and I came out not seeing scum at all. Yes he voted EtR nakedly but I A don't see that as a bad thing and B feel like his progression of we need to solved this>ohh I forgot to vote>vote looks real. The zeal to lynch both is wrong and shouldn't happen but also doesn't feel agenda'y in the context of his ISO. Feels more overzealous caught up in the moment.
Is there more to the tubba read that I'm missing? Or is just the "we need to kill both EtR and Tau regardless of their flips"? I get that popping to comment on the aggression/saltiness/whatever isn't helpful but it's consistent with his history.
its always just wine, regardless of ETR's flip, and I dont honestly think you believe if ETR was scum, he just outs his whole scum team, especially since im town, and im not saying none of that group could be scum but im gunna look at them through other means, and not evaluate them through wine
Lol
Could maybe see w/w with tau and just trying to hammer that lynch home, but with etr his posting feels a lot more agenda-y
It was never a good read, even if i wasnt painfully self aware. Newcomb spent about a year reading me literally the opposite way under the theory thst i enjoy playing scum much much more and that didnt work either.
I play how i want. I troll based on whos in the game with me and thread health.
Git gud
Also if you think Tom can't **** around as scum you're dead wrong.
We'll see, tom's wolfbro.
We'll see.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Its dumb but he at least believed it for some amount of time.
But im officially putting the onus on townjohnny to git gud tbh
Though... i dont even think the read holds up across my whole iso in this game lol.
Ive literally been lynched more times there in 15 games than the ~75 ive played here
It's how you come across. Please don't take the following as a flame if you are watching or look back Iso, or LW.
Good town finds wolves
GOAT town gets other townies to vote wolves
Iso was ******* great at the former. Like, one of the strongest cold wolf callers out there.
He was abysmal at the latter. Think about how many players knew Iso was a super strong hunter, and even when he would flip town, would still go their own way.
I joke with tom, I have talked with him in spectators, he also admitted he has other games (just never games I am in apparently). There are other independent things that make him wolfy or townie, so please don't assume I am solo reading him wolf for that. I am still working through my response to a few people.
I also don't particularly like KJ. His comment about EtR being fast, doesn't read super genuine to me. It reads like either trying to slow a buddy wagon down, or get credit for a potential town read. WIll be watching that slot in a bit, continuing my reread.
I respect tom as a player LW, and even tom himself can tell you that. We play very well together.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Yeah, I have been mislynched once in my entire career here.
Over there, yikes. But since mtgs really doesn't have a CFD meta, makes sense. I think 30-40% of my mislynches were last second cfds...
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Me
LW (good tone, good hunting attitude)
Null line
tom*
KJ
That's with me reading 3 most recent pages, and focusing on a handful of players, will continue for another15 minutes or so.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Considering you just hammered me for meta attempting tom, curious read since my predecessor had 0 posts.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Oh, you're wisp on MU?
You seemed so different, I didn't even think about it.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The easy way to confirm or overturn all this is to kill EtR.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I refuse, sir.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
But if youre town youre gonna have to go first here imo.
@GJ
Fine
Me and tammy are still 7-0 when aligned (though to be fair 4 of those were w/w)
You were in Looney tunes too? Damn. I was hot that game though, I think I had 3 for 4 and the one one was a 0 poster so ehh?
Neighborizer role if v/w is pretty yikes.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I dreamt I had a break through about the EtR/Tau nonsense last night but it was dream logic
I don't get the Tubba scum reads. Think I'm going to do an ISO dive there and aew what I find.
@tom: You know my position on insults in Mafia.
Dont think either of those are insulting.
Closest ive come that i remember this game is calling DV a salt mine....
Also, yeah IDK about KA. I still think he's likely town? His logic I can see coming from town. I think its bad logic, and I think its low effort, but its what I expect from him.
Do you think its problematic that this town seems to be playing their own games?
I think Mindreaver and Tubba are objectively highly scummy for their pushes. Yet most players are just like posting thoughts about weird ***** and not engaging anyone.
Rhand seems to have barely read the thread(But I'll give him some benefit of the doubt I guess).
KJ strikes me as a wet noodle this game, but that claim seemed pretty townie.
I think that's what you're seeing in KA? Its a little bloodlust too, but I think you're just seeing him sort of push this one narrative.
But that's like all the player has ever shown he can do, he's had zero growth in any of his games so to me he's just KA. Its not really a scum or town tell to me.
I'm not opposed to Tubba either, but lets consolidate in some way.
Your moms a salt mine.
@kami i literally cant think of a less insulting way of saying "believes in a crackpot theory i know to be factually inaccurate"
Does naive have a negative connotation im unaware of?
It’s not the words you’re using but the way you’re using them. Couched between D_V’s acidity it comes across more mean spirited than perhaps intended.
sure whatever. This could be town mindreaver either actually finding this scummy because hes forgotten me completely, or wanting to pressure me because... hes forgotten me completely. Lol.
Thats not scummy from me (or in general) and pressuring me doesnt do *****. But whatever its possible...
but hey look at that it was neither of those things. He clearly realized he cant get away with that read, and it wasnt pressure for pressures sake or he doesnt give it up that early.
So lets transition that awkwardly into jumping on the growing grape wagon, while lightly leaking that hes paying attention to my rolehunting in a professional capacity.
Then he pops back in after the grape wagon got even bigger because rhand meta, and... doesnt even comment on grape who he thinks is scum only mentions it in passing while vaguely attacking wisp eho he thinks is town PR
Then in response to tau/etr
"In any case, ETR and Tau can't both be telling the truth right now."
Which... a) i think is second most likely and b) has a ton of scum motivation in several possible combinations
I guess this is where i note that i kinda like his read on kami, and they're not super likely partners
But i absolutely hate
these two reads taken together is just pure agenda
This is still most likely scum itg
You can retract this statement since I've done nothing of the sort.
Jesus Christ be more preachy.
Anyway. You are either scum or [town 80-90% sure of something that i think is completely ridiculous AND know to be false]
Id maybe accept 50% sure etr is scum leading to 10% chance he outed his team. But even that seems way too high to me on both counts
Im at about 30%/0%
so you think this is more of a case of Kami actually just believes that and not so much that he is scum pushing an agenda? I guess I can buy that more for now since you have more experience with Kami then I do
Grumble Grumble.
Have I not made that clear that's what I think?
yeah im not currently considering unvoting
Expect me to jump between these two all day.
Is there more to the tubba read that I'm missing? Or is just the "we need to kill both EtR and Tau regardless of their flips"? I get that popping to comment on the aggression/saltiness/whatever isn't helpful but it's consistent with his history.
Well maybe not TOP, I've got Rhand in contention too.