JOHNNY went through in iso to figure where the gut came from. Think it was a lack of thoughtfulness that, like, yeah lolday1 and johnny is a pretty aggresive sort but
Like his whole iso is so binary. Even accounting for this being generally binary alignment game its pretty striking. Theres no third option for anything he has an opinion on.
Its always this or this. Even when he manipulates people into getting off him im not a wolf OR bad those Arent the only choices Jonathan
He also veers into mafia theory too easy for my liking. Its early on and its meh but i dont like it anyway.
Been trying to find the words to describe one thing and failing for awhile
Meanspirited howling
Emotional manipulation
Forcing binary choices
Think i might have said gaslighting at some point
Theyre all kind of true. But...
So like his main contribution, overshadowing everything else hes done at least in my mind, is simply
"Townread me or youre a wolf"
Idk what percentage of his posts, but ot feels like its the lions share of his oomph.
I said earlier it's been townread johnny>he townreads you. Its how hes treated me in the extreme but theres some elements of it throughout all his reads.
And i know its strategic because no way he really believes that regardless and it feels like a really unpleasant version of scumempoof just calling himself town til everyone accidentally starts believeing it in champs
I am a wolf because i refuse to believe johnny is town.
Is that johnny hunting or is that johnny getting people to townread him?
Or this, which didnt make it into the first spoiler because too many tabs
tom's day 2 has been the huntiest he has been all game DV. I don't get what you saw on day 1 that gave you even the remotest impression he has been hunting. What I do like about him is that if he was a wolf trying to pile drive me, him resisting against you showing doubt strikes me as not something he would do. He wants people to vote me, but seems to care about their reasons, not something I would expect from a wolf pushing a mislynch.
@everyone what do you think of johnny making this post, followed by wolfreading me entirely for calling him scum? And why have you not majjed him?
Especially @anak and @vaimes who have stated the exact opposite of the first sentence
~~~~~
@osi sorry your predeccesor outed you so hard
Bold move making the same made up town read devoid of a single reason on anak slot. That will keep me awake tonight prolly
Unrelated, but why is being drunk, or pretending to be drunk, and posting in a ridiculous manner a thing that is condoned on this site?
Like, maybe I have a huge problem with this because Vecna_Reborn did this and proceeded to totally ruin my game, but still, why do people think this is cool here? We're all past the age of 14, right?
Antispew means reducing the amount of info scum give out the town. Like me and GJ in Secret Agent where we tried to post nothing of value after we were discovered or wifom.
w/w is wolf/wolf or scum/scum.
RVS is the Random Voting Stage where everyone votes at random in the beginning of the game.
Pocket refers to a scum player trying to or succeeding in convincing a town player that they are town. Usually done be mimicking something the town person believes could only come from town and the scum using this info to fool them.
Barn comes from who knows where and refers to agreeing with someone's opinions. For example, I think X is scum because of Y and Z, Next player quotes my post and says /barn.
Thank you very much.
Is mindmeld when someone posts exactly what you were thinking prior to you posting it, or is it when someone posts it afterward? Or is there no distinction as to time?
I actively was not expecting to be lynched that game in the way that it happened.
But it became clear that you would be lynched, and you eventually acquiesced that you would be.
In both of these games, you were the obvious lynch, and in both of these cases, a similar pattern of behavior is being demonstrated.
But since I'm in a game with over 2000 posts that I don't really want to spend the time, effort, and likely money that I would have to do so to reread in its entirety,
Dude, c'mon man. I have spent the time and the effort to reread this thread on an extraordinarily busy and sleep-deprived week to get caught up. So I don't know how you can point blank say, "I am not going to even bother to put any effort in this game, please read this game for me and summarize the game for me, I'm not actually going to go through and read the game," and expect sympathy from me.
Like, I know it sucks to replace in to a 2000 post game and be the one that already has the bandwagon on him and is very likely to be the lynch that day, and be like, "Here are your cards, play them." But you're either a mafia who isn't interested in defending himself, or a town that isn't interested in defending himself, and either way, you're basically guaranteeing you're going to be lynched to day. And I don't disagree with it, because I genuinely believe you're osieorb as mafia who's about to be killed. I just would rather you have put up a fight or something.
Vote osieorb
----------------------
Anyway, having read through the thread, my thoughts:
Regarding Tau: No idea. I have no idea what he was thinking. No clue what the story was with the gambit. No idea what his deal was with regards to several of his votes, or his proclamations of innocence/mafia.
That said, I'm not sure how people are going to argue that Tau's gambit makes him mafia. Like, I understand my own bias, given I am replacing him, but explain Tau being mafia and coming up with all that to me.
Regarding EtR: since I wasn't PMed EtR's role PM, which is in my experience how masons normally work, I'm not going to assume he's town. That said, I have no idea why anyone believed that EtR posted 4 mafia in that post.
Honestly, that entire gambit is something I need to reread. Everything about it from every direction is just baffling.
Regarding Day 1:
1. There was absolutely no reason for people to vote LastWhisper, let alone put 6 votes on him that quickly. I'm not sure if it was just because Tau voted for him and then everyone piled on, or what. There was zero reason to vote for him. I actually wrote in my notes as I was reading, "How did LastWhisper get 6 votes that quick? Why are we not lynching one of {Reaverb Tau, Rumanshi, Rodemy, Grapefruit21, Killjoy, KamikazeArchon}?"
2. There was absolutely no reason for anyone to vote Rhand. I have no idea why Rhand was voted over KamikazeArchon or EtR. Was it that EtR voted and everyone just piled on, or was it to prevent a KamikazeArchon lynch?
Not to mention it seems pretty obvious that LastWhisper was nightkilled to try to cover for someone on the Rhandwagon. So that marks the following as people we need to scrutinize: EtR, D_V, Vaimes, KamikazeArchon, Tubba Fett, Vezokpiraka, Rodemy, tomsloger
3. Why do people think that Killjoy is town?
4. Prior to the whole osieorb thing, the highest people on my suspicion list were KamikazeArchon, Anak/M1ndreaver, and Killjoy, in that order.
KamikazeArchon just screams mafia. Here's a post in particular I'd like the town to look at:
@KJ: GB Rodemy was tentative, almost fearful. And like I said, the vote is for #57. Feels forced.
What are you talking about? Rodemy was lynched in that game because he was too aggressive and committed to a line of attack against me before he thought it through, which resulted in him getting caught in a lie. ”Tentative, almost fearful” is the furthest thing from his performance that game.
Our lynch should be either KamikazeArchon or osieorb. I'm fine with either one.
Theres no real time distinction for a mindmeld, and people use it really differently from each other, like all these sort of made up terms.
When i say its all about process. Me and dv were coming to similar though not identical conclusions, but the important bit to me was the way we were both getting there. That's when its something thats much harder to fake, since it requires reacting naturally to multiple bits of stimulus.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, rhand showed in ghostbusters that hes fine calling a mindmeld with an unexplained read that neither of them kept going...
Ftr, wifom and twtbaw get thrown around and misused so much they barely have any meaning at all. And omgus, cftwr, and antispew are misunderstood so heavily that them being terms people know might actually be a detriment
I scumread him but I'm not sure why.
I'm upset so I'm scumreading him.
Not worth calming down, still scumreading him based on previous reasons and because he doesn't agree with me.
I feel like Johnny's an ******** so he's a wolf.
I refuse to spend any more energy reading here.
That's not reading a slot.
If I replaced into a scumslot that I thought was going to die, I'd figure out if it was worth trying to salvage, and maybe try to distance from buddies. I'm not doing that here. I'm literally welcoming interaction only to have you spit in my face because you were pissed off at the person I replaced.
If people just want to lynch me without engaging me at all, I'll just start putting the following reads at the bottom of each of my posts for people (mostly tom since he actually doesn't seem to be reading the game any more) to ignore after they force this mislynch on me:
The Tau gambit was ridiculous and should have lead to a quick lynch on that slot this day phase. Highroller might as well have not even posted so far. ETR and Kamikaze are both of dubious value to the game at this point. Vezok is slightly less worthless than Rumanshi, but not much if at all more useful than me. Grapefruit is only in this POE in that I'm slightly less certain about him than about the others.
Vaimes is probably town for his attitude while playing seriously.
Mindreaver-slot is probably town for solid analysis posts.
Rodemy is probably town for solid analysis posts.
D_V-slot is probably town for tonal reasons.
%%%
Killjoy, LnGrrrR, Tom, and Tubba can all be up in the air but more likely town than scum at this point.
I'm not asking "read the game for me." I'm asking "show me what town needs to worry about other than wasting time on me."
As for Tau, it LITERALLY GENERATED A ******* MISLYNCH. I get that you're relatively new to this game, but that's monumentally obvious scum value to anyone.
Thanks for posting your first content post this game, though.
I'd absolutely lynch Kamikaze, though I'd always lynch you first until I see any reason to do otherwise.
If people just want to lynch me without engaging me at all, I'll just start putting the following reads at the bottom of each of my posts for people (mostly tom since he actually doesn't seem to be reading the game any more) to ignore after they force this mislynch on me:
The Tau gambit was ridiculous and should have lead to a quick lynch on that slot this day phase. Highroller might as well have not even posted so far. ETR and Kamikaze are both of dubious value to the game at this point. Vezok is slightly less worthless than Rumanshi, but not much if at all more useful than me. Grapefruit is only in this POE in that I'm slightly less certain about him than about the others.
Vaimes is probably town for his attitude while playing seriously.
Mindreaver-slot is probably town for solid analysis posts.
Rodemy is probably town for solid analysis posts.
D_V-slot is probably town for tonal reasons.
%%%
Killjoy, LnGrrrR, Tom, and Tubba can all be up in the air but more likely town than scum at this point.
Like, mechanically kj would have to be either scum tying himself ridiculously to his buddy grape or randomly fakeclaiming to save a townie, and im not sure either makes sense for scum in his position barring grape being just an insane PR
So occams razor would say town
And weve got that he (at least early) was actively applying some new methods of solving, and in fact hes definitely seemed quite proud of his new methodology to reenforce that, though i guess being proud of stuff that hasnt flipped any wolves yet isnt as townie as i was thinking at the beginning of this paragraph...
I dont really like his reads, but ovviously his process is really different from me usually amd hes actively changing it up itg, and not towards my style, so it would actually be kinda crazy of we had similar views. So not gonna hold that against him before flips at least.
But grape has gotten a bit townier as killjoy has been dipping in my estimation so havent really changed overall opinion of [the two slots] much.
Yeah, okay, I forgot about the KJ-Grape thing because I was too focused on Tom and Highroller being ridiculous. Updated the bit.
If people just want to lynch me without engaging me at all, I'll just start putting the following reads at the bottom of each of my posts for people (mostly tom since he actually doesn't seem to be reading the game any more) to ignore after they force this mislynch on me:
Tau-slot (Highroller's done next to nothing) > ETR/Kamikaze > Vezok >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone else
The Tau gambit was ridiculous and should have lead to a quick lynch on that slot this day phase. Highroller has barely even posted content so far. ETR and Kamikaze are both of dubious value to the game at this point. Vezok is slightly less worthless than Rumanshi, but not much if at all more useful than me. Grapefruit is only in this POE in that I'm slightly less certain about him than about the others.
Vaimes is probably town for his attitude while playing seriously.
Mindreaver-slot is probably town for solid analysis posts.
Rodemy is probably town for solid analysis posts.
D_V-slot is probably town for tonal reasons.
Killjoy and Grapefruit are likely a town pair.
%%%
LnGrrrR, Tom, and Tubba can all be up in the air but more likely town than scum at this point.
Hey Tom, I like how you haven't commented on the fact that my reads are mostly the same as yours outside of slots that you don't have hard townreads on. But you probably didn't read my reads anyways.
Why are you currently townreading Highroller outside of him agreeing to lynch this slot? Why are you currently scumreading Anak/Mindreaver slot?
If people just want to lynch me without engaging me at all, I'll just start putting the following reads at the bottom of each of my posts for people (mostly tom since he actually doesn't seem to be reading the game any more) to ignore after they force this mislynch on me:
Tau-slot (Highroller's done next to nothing) > ETR/Kamikaze > Vezok >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone else
The Tau gambit was ridiculous and should have lead to a quick lynch on that slot this day phase. Highroller has barely even posted content so far. ETR and Kamikaze are both of dubious value to the game at this point. Vezok is slightly less worthless than Rumanshi, but not much if at all more useful than me.
Vaimes is probably town for his attitude while playing seriously.
Mindreaver-slot is probably town for solid analysis posts.
Rodemy is probably town for solid analysis posts.
D_V-slot is probably town for tonal reasons.
Killjoy and Grapefruit are likely a town pair.
%%%
LnGrrrR, Tom, and Tubba can all be up in the air but more likely town than scum at this point.
I scumread him but I'm not sure why.
I'm upset so I'm scumreading him.
Not worth calming down, still scumreading him based on previous reasons and because he doesn't agree with me.
I feel like Johnny's an ******** so he's a wolf.
I refuse to spend any more energy reading here.
That's not reading a slot.
If I replaced into a scumslot that I thought was going to die, I'd figure out if it was worth trying to salvage, and maybe try to distance from buddies. I'm not doing that here. I'm literally welcoming interaction only to have you spit in my face because you were pissed off at the person I replaced.
i think it should be plain to everyone here that thats a bull***** assessment of my read
I didnt refuse to interact with you or johnny.
And i would describe myself as more disappointed in johnny than mad at him.
Calling you a wolf is not spitting in your face.
Im going to lynch you. Thats going to happen.
None of that is personal like johnny, dv, and now you would like to make it.
Lynch isnt your fault, though youve certainly not made it better. But you can blame johnny regardless.
And in the unlikely event youre town here, it would be great if you actually caught up and left a legacy you believe in rather than just pushing your openly uninformed ones as if that would mean something even if you did flip town
rather than just pushing your openly uninformed ones
I pointed out that you weren't reading my posts. That confirms it... I openly stated that I actually had read a bunch of several ISOs. So this whole "just pushing your openly uninformed ones" is a pile of crap.
Ive also made many posts this and other games on how bad reading people based on readlist similarity is, so dont even stsrt lol.
Like, this page about kj and in my description of the term mindmeld. In ghostbusters. In secret agents.
I dont care what anyones reads are. Just how/when they get there and whst they do with them.
rather than just pushing your openly uninformed ones
I pointed out that you weren't reading my posts. That confirms it... I openly stated that I actually had read a bunch of several ISOs. So this whole "just pushing your openly uninformed ones" is a pile of crap.
yes you said you isoed me but somehow know how i arrived at none of my reads
Im sure youve read some stuff regardless of your alignment but not much and not that well so
Osi, if you actually believed that my johnny read was throwing (despite agreeing he was scummy), you should be voting me.
Because i never throw as town but often openly wolfside as scum.
You're doing a poor job of walking this line of not wanting to get into it with me but wanting to discredit me.
Gotta choose one homie
Osi, if you actually believed that my johnny read was throwing (despite agreeing he was scummy), you should be voting me.
Because i never throw as town but often openly wolfside as scum.
You're doing a poor job of walking this line of not wanting to get into it with me but wanting to discredit me.
Gotta choose one homie
Nice strawman. I said that your tunnel without considering that someone literally got into a massive emotional argument with someone else and then not actually reading me was throwing, not your read in and of itself. But I'm starting to think it's just scummy.
I'm actively rereading parts of the game though to fill in some blanks on the Day 1 timeline that I compiled despite your general discouragement from playing the game.
I see that at least one person has enough respect for their fellow players that they'll try to catch a replacement up in thread. Regardless of your alignments, thanks for being a positive player on this site, LnGrrrR.
The biggest bullet point is probably the Tau/EtR shenanigans. Tau and EtR are neighbors, Tau claimed to be separated scum and told etr to post a question with the other scum in it. EtR did something like that, Tau called him out, EtR said he assumed Tau was gambling town and wanted to see what Tau would do.
I did consider and post about the emotional argument. Multiple even
I did give a read on you individually, (though ill freely admit it is difficult to completely separate you from your slot)
And if i hadnt neither of those things would be throwing or remotely scummy
Finished page 3 and two things stood out: tom is acting way scummier than expected. Calling out prs and having a start very reminiscent to ghostbusters.
Rodemy is town as town can be. I also like that he was upset/noticed tom calling put prs day 1.
I'll try to roleplay more after I finish my reread cause I'm more focused on reading quickly than roleplaying.
If I had a vig-shot right here I'm pretty sure I'd literally always hit Tau-slot. More than halfway through reading the game and I have yet to see any reason to not do so.
Finished page 3 and two things stood out: tom is acting way scummier than expected. Calling out prs and having a start very reminiscent to ghostbusters.
Rodemy is town as town can be. I also like that he was upset/noticed tom calling put prs day 1.
I'll try to roleplay more after I finish my reread cause I'm more focused on reading quickly than roleplaying.
Yo Vezok, what happened to this read?
It evolved through day 2.
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My only major question is for Osie: the Tau play puts a target on him. He's a player very confident in his ability to end game as scum. Why would he make a play virtually guaranteeing he doesn't end game? And corollary what is the thought process behind making that play in the chat as scum?
I have not read anything yet as I just landed from a long weekend with the girlfriend but I am guessing given vote counts that there is some type of scan situation going on as the person is being dunked on by a nearly majority of the game so hooray if true.
More substantive content from me tonight after work I will imagine. Although I will begin to read snippets of the game throughout my day to try to get a clear picture of what is going on.
Please treat me well, I hope we can all have a fun game together once again!
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Just to give me time to digest and to make sure no one is being silly with their thought processes! I see we have until Friday for me to make posts! I now see there is no scan situation but an INTERESTING neighbor thing, and INTERESTING neighbor thing sounds like something just made for me to parse through and come to a good conclusion so I'll do that ASAP.
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Osie is probably town what are you guys playing at here? Especially Vaimes (your vote on me when I was announced and noted btw) who says they were town reading GJ ans then suddenly Osie comes in, literally admits that they thought my slot was town and GJ was scum at a glance, and then just keeps posting things.
What's the exact case? Vaimes' vote is uh interesting considering they go from town lean to scum lean and I don't understand that.
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Just to give me time to digest and to make sure no one is being silly with their thought processes! I see we have until Friday for me to make posts! I now see there is no scan situation but an INTERESTING neighbor thing, and INTERESTING neighbor thing sounds like something just made for me to parse through and come to a good conclusion so I'll do that ASAP.
My only major question is for Osie: the Tau play puts a target on him. He's a player very confident in his ability to end game as scum. Why would he make a play virtually guaranteeing he doesn't end game? And corollary what is the thought process behind making that play in the chat as scum?
Potentially a 2 for 1 Gambit that raises a lot of wine in regards to who the scum is and how many are involved. Especially since Rhand+LW flipping town extremely lowers the chance of a Tom lynch, so Tom+Tau worlds fit well here. I could certainly imagine Tom coaching Tau through a play like this.
Been rereading, this is not OMGUS and this is a vote I would pretty much never make as scum. I have zero equity to actually push a mislynch on Tom ever as scum, as he and others should be well aware.
Been rereading, this is not OMGUS and this is a vote I would pretty much never make as scum. I have zero equity to actually push a mislynch on Tom ever as scum, as he and others should be well aware.
Been rereading, this is not OMGUS and this is a vote I would pretty much never make as scum. I have zero equity to actually push a mislynch on Tom ever as scum, as he and others should be well aware.
This is kind of gross tbh.
We don’t know what you would or wouldn’t do as scum. I DO have a strong townread on Tom so technically, you are pushing a mislynch on Tom in my eyes.
Sooo, scumread standa
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Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
I'm not asking "read the game for me." I'm asking "show me what town needs to worry about other than wasting time on me."
You outright said, "Well, I'm not even going to bother reading the thread."
Which, how is anyone supposed to react to that? No one pointed a gun to your head and told you to be in this game. If you don't want to take the time to read the thread, don't replace in or ask to be replaced out.
As for Tau, it LITERALLY GENERATED A ******* MISLYNCH.
You're blaming Tau for Rhand?
I get that you're relatively new to this game, but that's monumentally obvious scum value to anyone.
I mean, I'm the one who brought mafia to MTGNews, which means in a way I'm kind of responsible for this forum's existence, but sure, make that ad hominem. No way it's going to backfire on you.
Thanks for posting your first content post this game, though.
... Yeah, I was a little busy reading the 2000 post thread. Something you were too lazy to do. And now you have the gall to criticize my delay in posting?
I'd absolutely lynch Kamikaze, though I'd always lynch you first until I see any reason to do otherwise.
And yet, you instantly switch your vote to tomsloger.
Ok Osi I will be your hero as you are probably town.
Tom - tone. Super town tone. Summarize previous slot issue please.
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KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Been rereading, this is not OMGUS and this is a vote I would pretty much never make as scum. I have zero equity to actually push a mislynch on Tom ever as scum, as he and others should be well aware.
This is kind of gross tbh.
We don’t know what you would or wouldn’t do as scum. I DO have a strong townread on Tom so technically, you are pushing a mislynch on Tom in my eyes.
Sooo, scumread standa
Hi so you were on Rhand day one, and since he is flipped town I have a STRONG town read on rhand which means you pushed for a mislynch on town in my eyes.
##vote: Rodemy
Now I confess to you, my fellow players, it has been a few years since I have dusted off the ole boots in this here community but if my logic that I presented here to vote Rodemy then I have to ask how is Rodemy's any better? Town on town crime is really common and Rodemy is smart enough to know that, so when he goes "Well you are pushing someone I think can be town so that's bad" that is beyond level one thinking and borders on level 0 thinking. It is just a pile on and a way to go "yeah you're scum so there."
So the thing about Osi is nothing about their posting has really had much of a point to it, which is much more likely to be town than it is to be scum in my experience. They have been a little too honest in their discourse. Also scum who are at -1 don't tend to give vig lists and stuff like that. It's just not something that enters scum's mind to go all like "okay if I was a vig I'd shoot within here."
Now if Rodemy is scum, and in MY view they are pushing a mislynch on someone I have a town read on which is in Rodemy's own viewpoint not good!
Now here's the thing about Osi, they are playing what I would call an imperfect game. They aren't making great points to their defense and saying things like "I wouldn't do this as scum" means nothing except boy does Osi come off as genuine as they say a lot of things like that. Giving us a vig list, trying so hard to engage Tom issue by issue only for Tom to play too cool for school (which is NAI but just saying) and being really honest about motivations and everything. I don't know what possible scum motive anyone has to enter this thread and go "yeah I thought this slot was scum and (my slot actually) is town."
So I really think Rodemy got a little lazy in their arguments here because it looked all wrapped up and kind of made a really scummy post here. Conflating a bad post with a scum motivated post should be something that Rodemy knows better on. I remember Rodemy being good. This was not good. Good players make poor posts when they are scum, in my experience.
Hi Rodemy I am here to eat you now, please respond and play with me this beautiful game of mafia I love so much <3
PARADIGM SHIFT.
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Also let me tack on that Highroller is probably town, way too annoyed at my friend Osi to be scum here I think. Not solid but I'll put that as a 'lean'
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If I had a vig-shot right here I'm pretty sure I'd literally always hit Tau-slot. More than halfway through reading the game and I have yet to see any reason to not do so.
So hi let's talk to the people on Osi (or Osie I am bad at shortening things) and let me tell you what this is. This is town Osie genuinely reading through the topic and at some point going "... this slot has done absolutely nothing."
Also scum do tend to be able to stick to a point so Osie mentioning a variety of players as potential scum and being a bit scattered makes PERFECT SENSE for a town player catching up and trying to process a data dump they are forcing themselves through.
My only major question is for Osie: the Tau play puts a target on him. He's a player very confident in his ability to end game as scum. Why would he make a play virtually guaranteeing he doesn't end game? And corollary what is the thought process behind making that play in the chat as scum?
Hi so I am not sure how I feel here. On the one hand good for you for recognizing an issue here on the other hand you sure didn't try to push this at all. This seems to be a really good point but strikes me as passive in the way you presented it. If you are right do you not care more that town will mislynch for a second day in a row? Give me more thoughts!
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Now here's the thing about Osi, they are playing what I would call an imperfect game. They aren't making great points to their defense and saying things like "I wouldn't do this as scum" means nothing except boy does Osi come off as genuine as they say a lot of things like that. Giving us a vig list, trying so hard to engage Tom issue by issue only for Tom to play too cool for school (which is NAI but just saying) and being really honest about motivations and everything. I don't know what possible scum motive anyone has to enter this thread and go "yeah I thought this slot was scum and (my slot actually) is town."
this is not what happened at all though
He shouted about me and others refusing to engage him, but it never happened at all.
He said his slot was scummy and then pushed me for finding it scummy amd tried very hard to discredit my read by refusing to engage with it
There is nothing genuine about saying he wouldn't [give a shitty read he wont back up on a player unlikely to flip soon] as scum. Only true part was he doesnt have the cred to push anything through, which is... exactly why him saying he wouldnt do it as scum is complete bull*****
However, as stated osi isnt that scummy. A little scummy, yes. But theoretically in his town range. Hed definitely be more likely to actually explain reads as town which hes clearly not doing here, but thats not what this is about.
If I had a vig-shot right here I'm pretty sure I'd literally always hit Tau-slot. More than halfway through reading the game and I have yet to see any reason to not do so.
So hi let's talk to the people on Osi (or Osie I am bad at shortening things) and let me tell you what this is. This is town Osie genuinely reading through the topic and at some point going "... this slot has done absolutely nothing."
1) are you arguing that scum wouldnt say to vig a lurker?
2) that is not why hes scumreading the slot.
Its actually far worse than that, but i guess ill let you find it
I literally saw you say "You can't convince me Johnny wasn't scum so I am stopping now" that's not him saying it, it is you. I am sorry if I brought up an invalid point of his from earlier but I was thinking of that moment. I wasn't using his words I was using yours! Johnny seems to have been having a bit of an adventure this game, not that I doubt your ability Tom but Johnny didn't seem to be in any type of range.
What do you think about my point against Rodemy? Humor me and my Osie read as if I am a scary player who is known for his world class town clearing ability in the face of all logic saying otherwise.
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Or this, which didnt make it into the first spoiler because too many tabs
Like, maybe I have a huge problem with this because Vecna_Reborn did this and proceeded to totally ruin my game, but still, why do people think this is cool here? We're all past the age of 14, right?
Thank you very much.
Is mindmeld when someone posts exactly what you were thinking prior to you posting it, or is it when someone posts it afterward? Or is there no distinction as to time?
But it became clear that you would be lynched, and you eventually acquiesced that you would be.
In both of these games, you were the obvious lynch, and in both of these cases, a similar pattern of behavior is being demonstrated.
Dude, c'mon man. I have spent the time and the effort to reread this thread on an extraordinarily busy and sleep-deprived week to get caught up. So I don't know how you can point blank say, "I am not going to even bother to put any effort in this game, please read this game for me and summarize the game for me, I'm not actually going to go through and read the game," and expect sympathy from me.
Like, I know it sucks to replace in to a 2000 post game and be the one that already has the bandwagon on him and is very likely to be the lynch that day, and be like, "Here are your cards, play them." But you're either a mafia who isn't interested in defending himself, or a town that isn't interested in defending himself, and either way, you're basically guaranteeing you're going to be lynched to day. And I don't disagree with it, because I genuinely believe you're osieorb as mafia who's about to be killed. I just would rather you have put up a fight or something.
Vote osieorb
----------------------
Anyway, having read through the thread, my thoughts:
Regarding Tau: No idea. I have no idea what he was thinking. No clue what the story was with the gambit. No idea what his deal was with regards to several of his votes, or his proclamations of innocence/mafia.
That said, I'm not sure how people are going to argue that Tau's gambit makes him mafia. Like, I understand my own bias, given I am replacing him, but explain Tau being mafia and coming up with all that to me.
Regarding EtR: since I wasn't PMed EtR's role PM, which is in my experience how masons normally work, I'm not going to assume he's town. That said, I have no idea why anyone believed that EtR posted 4 mafia in that post.
Honestly, that entire gambit is something I need to reread. Everything about it from every direction is just baffling.
Regarding Day 1:
1. There was absolutely no reason for people to vote LastWhisper, let alone put 6 votes on him that quickly. I'm not sure if it was just because Tau voted for him and then everyone piled on, or what. There was zero reason to vote for him. I actually wrote in my notes as I was reading, "How did LastWhisper get 6 votes that quick? Why are we not lynching one of {Reaverb Tau, Rumanshi, Rodemy, Grapefruit21, Killjoy, KamikazeArchon}?"
2. There was absolutely no reason for anyone to vote Rhand. I have no idea why Rhand was voted over KamikazeArchon or EtR. Was it that EtR voted and everyone just piled on, or was it to prevent a KamikazeArchon lynch?
Not to mention it seems pretty obvious that LastWhisper was nightkilled to try to cover for someone on the Rhandwagon. So that marks the following as people we need to scrutinize: EtR, D_V, Vaimes, KamikazeArchon, Tubba Fett, Vezokpiraka, Rodemy, tomsloger
3. Why do people think that Killjoy is town?
4. Prior to the whole osieorb thing, the highest people on my suspicion list were KamikazeArchon, Anak/M1ndreaver, and Killjoy, in that order.
KamikazeArchon just screams mafia. Here's a post in particular I'd like the town to look at:
What are you talking about? Rodemy was lynched in that game because he was too aggressive and committed to a line of attack against me before he thought it through, which resulted in him getting caught in a lie. ”Tentative, almost fearful” is the furthest thing from his performance that game.
Our lynch should be either KamikazeArchon or osieorb. I'm fine with either one.
When i say its all about process. Me and dv were coming to similar though not identical conclusions, but the important bit to me was the way we were both getting there. That's when its something thats much harder to fake, since it requires reacting naturally to multiple bits of stimulus.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, rhand showed in ghostbusters that hes fine calling a mindmeld with an unexplained read that neither of them kept going...
Ftr, wifom and twtbaw get thrown around and misused so much they barely have any meaning at all. And omgus, cftwr, and antispew are misunderstood so heavily that them being terms people know might actually be a detriment
I scumread him but I'm not sure why.
I'm upset so I'm scumreading him.
Not worth calming down, still scumreading him based on previous reasons and because he doesn't agree with me.
I feel like Johnny's an ******** so he's a wolf.
I refuse to spend any more energy reading here.
That's not reading a slot.
If I replaced into a scumslot that I thought was going to die, I'd figure out if it was worth trying to salvage, and maybe try to distance from buddies. I'm not doing that here. I'm literally welcoming interaction only to have you spit in my face because you were pissed off at the person I replaced.
If people just want to lynch me without engaging me at all, I'll just start putting the following reads at the bottom of each of my posts for people (mostly tom since he actually doesn't seem to be reading the game any more) to ignore after they force this mislynch on me:
As for Tau, it LITERALLY GENERATED A ******* MISLYNCH. I get that you're relatively new to this game, but that's monumentally obvious scum value to anyone.
Thanks for posting your first content post this game, though.
I'd absolutely lynch Kamikaze, though I'd always lynch you first until I see any reason to do otherwise.
If people just want to lynch me without engaging me at all, I'll just start putting the following reads at the bottom of each of my posts for people (mostly tom since he actually doesn't seem to be reading the game any more) to ignore after they force this mislynch on me:
So occams razor would say town
And weve got that he (at least early) was actively applying some new methods of solving, and in fact hes definitely seemed quite proud of his new methodology to reenforce that, though i guess being proud of stuff that hasnt flipped any wolves yet isnt as townie as i was thinking at the beginning of this paragraph...
I dont really like his reads, but ovviously his process is really different from me usually amd hes actively changing it up itg, and not towards my style, so it would actually be kinda crazy of we had similar views. So not gonna hold that against him before flips at least.
But grape has gotten a bit townier as killjoy has been dipping in my estimation so havent really changed overall opinion of [the two slots] much.
If people just want to lynch me without engaging me at all, I'll just start putting the following reads at the bottom of each of my posts for people (mostly tom since he actually doesn't seem to be reading the game any more) to ignore after they force this mislynch on me:
Why are you currently townreading Highroller outside of him agreeing to lynch this slot? Why are you currently scumreading Anak/Mindreaver slot?
If people just want to lynch me without engaging me at all, I'll just start putting the following reads at the bottom of each of my posts for people (mostly tom since he actually doesn't seem to be reading the game any more) to ignore after they force this mislynch on me:
I didnt refuse to interact with you or johnny.
And i would describe myself as more disappointed in johnny than mad at him.
Calling you a wolf is not spitting in your face.
Im going to lynch you. Thats going to happen.
None of that is personal like johnny, dv, and now you would like to make it.
Lynch isnt your fault, though youve certainly not made it better. But you can blame johnny regardless.
And in the unlikely event youre town here, it would be great if you actually caught up and left a legacy you believe in rather than just pushing your openly uninformed ones as if that would mean something even if you did flip town
I pointed out that you weren't reading my posts. That confirms it... I openly stated that I actually had read a bunch of several ISOs. So this whole "just pushing your openly uninformed ones" is a pile of crap.
Ive also made many posts this and other games on how bad reading people based on readlist similarity is, so dont even stsrt lol.
Like, this page about kj and in my description of the term mindmeld. In ghostbusters. In secret agents.
I dont care what anyones reads are. Just how/when they get there and whst they do with them.
Im sure youve read some stuff regardless of your alignment but not much and not that well so
Theres likely nothing you can do to convince me johnny wasnt a wolf, so it doesnt have much profit for either of us.
Glgl
Oh well, I'll just actually try to game solve and not throw like this garbage.
Because i never throw as town but often openly wolfside as scum.
You're doing a poor job of walking this line of not wanting to get into it with me but wanting to discredit me.
Gotta choose one homie
Nice strawman. I said that your tunnel without considering that someone literally got into a massive emotional argument with someone else and then not actually reading me was throwing, not your read in and of itself. But I'm starting to think it's just scummy.
I'm actively rereading parts of the game though to fill in some blanks on the Day 1 timeline that I compiled despite your general discouragement from playing the game.
I did give a read on you individually, (though ill freely admit it is difficult to completely separate you from your slot)
And if i hadnt neither of those things would be throwing or remotely scummy
Try again
Yo Vezok, what happened to this read?
Tom-Tau-Kami-(EtR? Least sure here.)
It evolved through day 2.
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My only major question is for Osie: the Tau play puts a target on him. He's a player very confident in his ability to end game as scum. Why would he make a play virtually guaranteeing he doesn't end game? And corollary what is the thought process behind making that play in the chat as scum?
"Wherever there's opportunity, the mafia will be there."
-Johnny Kelly
osieorb18 (7): Rodemy, Sir Chris, vezokpiraka, LnGrrrR, tomsloger, Vaimes, Highroller
LnGrrrR (1): KamikazeArchon
tomsloger (1): Killjoy
Vezokpiraka (1): EtR
KamikazeArchon (1): Anaklusmos
Highroller (1): osieorb18
Not Voting (2): Tubba Fett, Grapefruit21
V/LA: -
With 14 alive, it’s 8 to lynch. Deadline is on March 22nd.
More substantive content from me tonight after work I will imagine. Although I will begin to read snippets of the game throughout my day to try to get a clear picture of what is going on.
Please treat me well, I hope we can all have a fun game together once again!
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Just to give me time to digest and to make sure no one is being silly with their thought processes! I see we have until Friday for me to make posts! I now see there is no scan situation but an INTERESTING neighbor thing, and INTERESTING neighbor thing sounds like something just made for me to parse through and come to a good conclusion so I'll do that ASAP.
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I will need to replace
My apologies to everyone for not holding up my end. I hope to join you all again soon.
What's the exact case? Vaimes' vote is uh interesting considering they go from town lean to scum lean and I don't understand that.
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Thank you for being reasonable.
Potentially a 2 for 1 Gambit that raises a lot of wine in regards to who the scum is and how many are involved. Especially since Rhand+LW flipping town extremely lowers the chance of a Tom lynch, so Tom+Tau worlds fit well here. I could certainly imagine Tom coaching Tau through a play like this.
Been rereading, this is not OMGUS and this is a vote I would pretty much never make as scum. I have zero equity to actually push a mislynch on Tom ever as scum, as he and others should be well aware.
This is kind of gross tbh.
We don’t know what you would or wouldn’t do as scum. I DO have a strong townread on Tom so technically, you are pushing a mislynch on Tom in my eyes.
Sooo, scumread standa
Which, how is anyone supposed to react to that? No one pointed a gun to your head and told you to be in this game. If you don't want to take the time to read the thread, don't replace in or ask to be replaced out.
You're blaming Tau for Rhand?
I mean, I'm the one who brought mafia to MTGNews, which means in a way I'm kind of responsible for this forum's existence, but sure, make that ad hominem. No way it's going to backfire on you.
... Yeah, I was a little busy reading the 2000 post thread. Something you were too lazy to do. And now you have the gall to criticize my delay in posting?
And yet, you instantly switch your vote to tomsloger.
Ok Osi I will be your hero as you are probably town.
Tom - tone. Super town tone. Summarize previous slot issue please.
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And i have, in the last 50 posts
Hi so you were on Rhand day one, and since he is flipped town I have a STRONG town read on rhand which means you pushed for a mislynch on town in my eyes.
##vote: Rodemy
Now I confess to you, my fellow players, it has been a few years since I have dusted off the ole boots in this here community but if my logic that I presented here to vote Rodemy then I have to ask how is Rodemy's any better? Town on town crime is really common and Rodemy is smart enough to know that, so when he goes "Well you are pushing someone I think can be town so that's bad" that is beyond level one thinking and borders on level 0 thinking. It is just a pile on and a way to go "yeah you're scum so there."
So the thing about Osi is nothing about their posting has really had much of a point to it, which is much more likely to be town than it is to be scum in my experience. They have been a little too honest in their discourse. Also scum who are at -1 don't tend to give vig lists and stuff like that. It's just not something that enters scum's mind to go all like "okay if I was a vig I'd shoot within here."
Now if Rodemy is scum, and in MY view they are pushing a mislynch on someone I have a town read on which is in Rodemy's own viewpoint not good!
Now here's the thing about Osi, they are playing what I would call an imperfect game. They aren't making great points to their defense and saying things like "I wouldn't do this as scum" means nothing except boy does Osi come off as genuine as they say a lot of things like that. Giving us a vig list, trying so hard to engage Tom issue by issue only for Tom to play too cool for school (which is NAI but just saying) and being really honest about motivations and everything. I don't know what possible scum motive anyone has to enter this thread and go "yeah I thought this slot was scum and (my slot actually) is town."
So I really think Rodemy got a little lazy in their arguments here because it looked all wrapped up and kind of made a really scummy post here. Conflating a bad post with a scum motivated post should be something that Rodemy knows better on. I remember Rodemy being good. This was not good. Good players make poor posts when they are scum, in my experience.
Hi Rodemy I am here to eat you now, please respond and play with me this beautiful game of mafia I love so much <3
PARADIGM SHIFT.
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So hi let's talk to the people on Osi (or Osie I am bad at shortening things) and let me tell you what this is. This is town Osie genuinely reading through the topic and at some point going "... this slot has done absolutely nothing."
Also scum do tend to be able to stick to a point so Osie mentioning a variety of players as potential scum and being a bit scattered makes PERFECT SENSE for a town player catching up and trying to process a data dump they are forcing themselves through.
Hi so I am not sure how I feel here. On the one hand good for you for recognizing an issue here on the other hand you sure didn't try to push this at all. This seems to be a really good point but strikes me as passive in the way you presented it. If you are right do you not care more that town will mislynch for a second day in a row? Give me more thoughts!
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He shouted about me and others refusing to engage him, but it never happened at all.
He said his slot was scummy and then pushed me for finding it scummy amd tried very hard to discredit my read by refusing to engage with it
There is nothing genuine about saying he wouldn't [give a shitty read he wont back up on a player unlikely to flip soon] as scum. Only true part was he doesnt have the cred to push anything through, which is... exactly why him saying he wouldnt do it as scum is complete bull*****
However, as stated osi isnt that scummy. A little scummy, yes. But theoretically in his town range. Hed definitely be more likely to actually explain reads as town which hes clearly not doing here, but thats not what this is about.
Because johnny absolutely left his town range.
2) that is not why hes scumreading the slot.
Its actually far worse than that, but i guess ill let you find it
What do you think about my point against Rodemy? Humor me and my Osie read as if I am a scary player who is known for his world class town clearing ability in the face of all logic saying otherwise.
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