@KJ They were the same, but Kami kept harping on it for longer past rhat point than Tubba did. Tubba got more popin-y which isnt good either, but at least sort kf started discussing other things.
Ultimately I have issue with pressure being applied on either of them currently.
It might be a cop out but i would use my oracle shot on the Tau post outing his gambit. One for the small chance of knowing it was true and winning the game, but also for the larger chance of it not being true and we could just move on without having to think about ir anymore.
Why don't you want pressure on either of them right now?
Also, do you think there might just be NO scum in Tubba/Kami? Why or why not?
@Tom: Why did you skip Kami if he's in the middle of your list, but not Grape who's alignment is tied to mine (who you also skipped?)
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
All of these wagons could be scum. Think the kami wagon was pretty ***** but thats more about who was on it than kami himself.
At its peak today:
Kami (5): LnGrr, Anak, gj, vezok, dv
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Other than lngrr and maybe the lolrvs wagon on last, rhand mislynch might be the towniest wagon all game
Kami wagon was so gross. prolly not voting there anytime soon even if he is scummy when he gets around to playing this game
Looking at votes and unalignments and *****, think theres on average 1 scum in etr>tubba>kami>highroller
Leaving ~3 in anak>gj>lngrr>>vez>vaimes>>[kj/grape shenanigans]
Would support wagons on anak/gj/lngrr
A few others i wouldnt fight, but officially against a Kami wagon now
Tom, I think Mind/Anak is likely town due to how mind thought.
When I caught him in his web of lies, he sort of indicated that wasn't the purpose of what he was talking about. What do I mean by this. Well, Mind seemed to want the most generous interpretation of his actions/words to be applied. In other words in his mind the exact wording shouldn't matter and the overall IDEA of what he was saying should be what is analyzed. Which is weird because he wanted to be exact with me and hold my words to have exact meaning and ignore the overall IDEA of what I was saying.
I'd like to read him as town for this due to him, not thinking that what he was asking for was unreasonable. In fact he got quite frustrated with me in the end due to me pointing out how he used exact words, that meant something else. I don't think scum would get mad at me for catching them in that, that's the game, and that's the rub. In fact I think scum when seeing that would expect that to be a thing. Instead he got mad about it, which to me is a town tell in this exact circumstance.
I have two good examples I can point to of this happening before. Once, when Osie and I argued and he used the word LITERALLY when he meant SUBJECTIVELY. And secondly is offsite on MAL where I hard pressured someone for this exact same loose hyperbole words and they doubled down on them meaning what they said they meant and that I was wrong. Both of these players were town. I'm willing to extend a slight town read to that slot for the same interaction.
Tubba i think has had some good posts in the moment. Even when memey hes reacted pretty well.
But hes def got some srances that feel bad in [worlds]. His etr>tau chain. Townread on grape + impact on read on kj are weird. Townreads om you and gj. "Seppel is seppel" read on me.
Amd i think the way you argue, which makes it so personal, allows people to react in really genuine ways because theyre no longer talking about their alignment
Amd i think the way you argue, which makes it so personal, allows people to react in really genuine ways because theyre no longer talking about their alignment
Generally, I'd agree I feel like this is more of an overall mindset read.
I was wondering if they both could be for a bit. But I kinda like GJ
I don't think they are buddies based on their weird locking in on each other D1 and backing off today. But maybe they think the can power through it after a powow overnight. Dunno what that team would look like though and I don't really believe it. It's partially why I kind of wouldn't mind condemning Anak today, Tom has been really confident about that read all game and seeing if he's right would help sort him.
K.
You played in playstation. Both tom and Kpaca pretty much had me marked as a wolf all game. tom can bus almost as hard as I do so even if I am wrong about Anak, that doesn't lock him in as town. You of all people in this game should know that, because you got burned by me that game.
Hey Johnny whats the big difference between anak and tubbas reads post that made you say you like anak but called tubbas post wolfy?
Lot of reasons. I don't really see a reason to break it down. There isn't an answer I can give to change your mind, and frankly, regardless of Kami's alignment, that comment about me pushing the thread tilted more than every single one of Grape's post combined. I want to see one of LnGrrr/Kami swing right now. If I have to go tomorrow, so be it. If I have to go today, I don't really care anymore. I wouldn't be pushing so hard if there was a even an iota of effort from half the players in the game. The only people actively engaging me are likely town. If you want my honest opinion, I could probably flip a coin on half the players in the game right now and not be surprised.
got it you just say things with no reason
Real talk those posts dont look that different to me. I liked tubbas a little more, just because anaks was so passionless and consensusy. But neither seemed particularly needle movey and your reactions to them seem pretty random to me.
Why does me saying youre pushing more than solving tilt you? You essentially admitted it was true but not AI, i wasnt gonna bring it up again really. What up?
Finishing reads off:
Vaimes and tubba are both people that i know what im looking for. Theyve both shown some flashes, tubba more than vaimes, but theres worlds where theyre scum (also tubba moreso)
Sticking them in "pending"
Lngrr just kinda looks like scum, and (lack of) wagon movement against him compared to [grape, etr, rhand, vezok, kami] feels weird.
Rod still feels like townrod. Was forgetting that a little, but recent activity confirms
dv/rod
grapejoy
highroller
kami/tubba/vaimes
ETR/vez
johnny/lngrr
anak
Got a bit lazy towards the end there. Skipped isoing kj, kami, and rod. Will keep trying to sort the middle
But thats more or less where im at.
Those two lists are days apart, and are as static as static can be. You aren't re-evaluating, you aren't even trying. So either you are so absurdly confidant you just pegged the team down, and just can't seem to get anyone to follow you, or you are a wolf manufacturing reads. It doesn't help that if we are "real talking" my town read of you broken down, is just a TWTBW read. Like *****, the arrogance you think on me being a wolf read. You weren't even that sure in Grape's ******* game with a ******* red check, until I outed myself.
But we are real talking now, so here we go. You want to know what I didn't like about Tubba's post? Let's break it down:
I strongly agree with Grapes position on HR/Tau. The gambit is nonsensical from scumTau. His scum game IMO, is quite good and the gambit would be unnecessary noise and attention. If the “neighbours” have one scum, I’d be fairly surprised it was Tau. The only slim possibility I could see it occurring would be if they felt pressure to save a buddy. It was the middle of D1, nothing was happening to justify that. The absence following is disconcerting, but at the same time why not try to press the confusion into a mislynch.
Why does he need to do that? It sounds like a pocketing attempt. In addition to it really not being relevent right now (unless there is some idea of charging at Highroller. It's a dedicated barn read. The meta part is pretty nai, but it's a paragraph, that could have been one sentence. The slim possibility makes it feel like he is trying to make it look like a hashed out read.
I wouldn’t say Vaimes is super towny. I’d go townish. I’ve definitely seen townier Vaimes. Still I’ve seen enough good things to move him up from null.
I don't like the bolded, but don't really have a reason why.
This is town Grape, I’d bet 1000 gil on that. I was hesitant about KJ’s reliability regarding the green check and some of Grape’s positions earlier looked a little weird, but this is good old townGrape.
Like, why take the time to analyze a Grape post for his alignment unless you have reason to doubt KJ. Really strange way to go about it.
I really want D_V to be town. I’ve read them wrong every game so far because of clashing over playstyle. I want to see some more from them before I go stronger than a town lean.
Apart from you, DV has been one of the most active posters in the game. More implies he isn't posting enough, or isn't hunting enough. I don't think he believes either of those are true, so I don't get that. It feels forced.
Blah blah consensus town leans blah blah
The squishy middle is the interesting part. How do you bring something up without tipping the party in question off about it?
The self conscious feels off, but whatever.
Still want to flip EtR, still thinks there’s a reasonable chance they’re scum, Rhand and Whisper’s flips don’t change anything for me there, if anything it makes me more curious.
Why does Rhand flipping town make EtR more likely to be a wolf? Curious also implies he isn't full convinced EtR is a wolf, which is fine, but if we have vig shots, I don't know why EtR helps here. He doesn't explain why that flips would work out, so it feels off, again.
Whisper probably died defending one of KJ or GF. (KJ is 85% lock town for me based on my Grape read.) Unless in the 15% world KJ is scum and wifom, but I feel despite the soft outing of a PR, it’d be more beneficial to nuke a green check over a random, possible, PR.
That's an odd speculation to make, considering LW was somewhat outed as a PR, and probably the towniest person in the thread. It's also completely baseless speculation.
Scumslotting Vez over their placement (or lack thereof) of Hrape is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, and I’ve heard everything I’ve ever posted. Anyone pushing that is gonna be getting some side eye.
*blinks*
Anak's post goes more into detail, I feel and I overall like his tone. If there is one thing I dislike, it was that he used "things" too much. WOuld have liked to see specifics, and him to post more. I though he was going to pick up the pace a bit, and feel like he has fallen off.
But tom, you are me. I am town. I have two players in here who just recently wolfed with me, and both harping on my *****. Game is filled with ******* slankers, so I am trying to push forward. I can shove people and one of two things are going to happen: They get lynched, or they start ******* town posting.
If I was a wolf here, I just let the game sit. Yes, I can move my range and one of my strongest abilities as a wolf if that I am too slippery for meta. But how many recent wolf games have you seen where I try to press the attack and take charge, versus wait in the weeds and pick players off? And if there is a player (you) who has seen me wolf multiple times, and is yet wolfreading me when I am obvious town, how would you react to that player?
Now lets get back to my problem. I am getting wolf read for whatever reason, trying to push people, hunt them down, and re-evaluating. And I am not only getting wolf read by this one particular player, but also by a large chunk of people, who are either wolves or town. It's hard to focus when you feel like you are the only one giving a ***** about this game while other people are just like "this guys wolfing." Because while I think there are wolves thinking I am a mislynch, I am objective enough to know that probably half the players are town. And while I try to convince the people I know are town to reconsider, even if one of them (I am 99% sure) is just salty and "doesn't being burned by me again", it makes me life hard and I just don't want to bother anymore.
You keep saying more time for Kami. Do you know what the problem with that strat is? You can't use that strat with everyone, unless you want to no lynch days 1 and 2. People here seem too concerned with trying to find this wolfy post, or wolfy comment, when they should also be looking for what is absent. As I have posted this, Kami has made a couple of bigger posts. I have issues with that as well, and maybe for my 1 post tomorrow, if I post, I'll go into detail. But my reads are on people not hunting, because those people don't get ******* passes while I am playing. This is policy here, but if you aren't actively trying to solve as a town, you are game throwing. Period, end of discussion. You can't change my mind. The entire premise of this game is to hunt for wolves as town, and try to look like you are hunting if you are a wolf.
LnGrrr, has the same issue but far less effort. I am willing to look the other way on Kami. I don't know what else I can do to show towniness here. I wasn't salty when you said I was pushing instead of solving, I said the two weren't mutually exclusive. Your implication is that I am pushing, without solving, and don't try to deny that. I am pushing, honestly. Because someone has to. And if you are town, you are pushing at least one bad wolf in me, and if you are a wolf, the **** I ma letting you run shop here. I honestly don't know about you anymore, and that bothers me. But fun fact: I don't think I want to solve you until all this lurking/slanking/not hunting bull***** is cleared out.
So if you are town, tom. Help me, help you. If you are a wolf....I hope the rest of the town can get you if I go down.
I suppose I lied about stick to 0-1 posts a day. It's too hard. I don't know how anyone manages to do that.
DV, riddle me this. Why would I post the lists I was referencing just to make them wrong? Is that really wolfy?
And come on. Grape moved from a 1st tier town read, to a 2nd tier town read. Which actually doesn't make a ton of sense unless his KJ read fell significantly (I know, he didn't do KJ on his list yet, he got lazy) but clearly, he did. For better or worse, Grape only should be lower than top tier town if you think KJ is a wolf. So why isn't KJ at least in his null pile?
Rod moved 3 positions from 2nd tier town to 1st tier. Come on bro. Really?
That's literally a 20-25% change in his bottom four.
Riddle me this who out of the Rhand/Last flip does any of these five mentioned players make the need for reassessment of scum reads?
I don't ******* know off hand. The only reason I went back to look at his lists was I thought it was strange he had anak as a top wolf read over two posts. I didn't think tom had mind as that strong of a wolf read, so went back to check. And then I saw the list and was curious about it.
Don't give me the percentage *****, it's a small number. You play dota, if you fight two teams, and in both teams, a single player changes heroes (a 20% change) you are for all intents and purposes, still playing the same team. Even if it's the core. I have changed reads quite a bit. So there's that.
That's literally a 20-25% change in his bottom four.
Riddle me this who out of the Rhand/Last flip does any of these five mentioned players make the need for reassessment of scum reads?
I don't ******* know off hand. The only reason I went back to look at his lists was I thought it was strange he had anak as a top wolf read over two posts. I didn't think tom had mind as that strong of a wolf read, so went back to check. And then I saw the list and was curious about it.
Don't give me the percentage *****, it's a small number. You play dota, if you fight two teams, and in both teams, a single player changes heroes (a 20% change) you are for all intents and purposes, still playing the same team. Even if it's the core. I have changed reads quite a bit. So there's that.
Yeah because a Mid Viper or a Mid Tinker in the same line up lead to identical game states.
What do you mean "nearly identical". You seem to think 20-25% is a huge deal, doesn't 40% mean more to you?
Is that really my most recent list? I don't remember. I am reading Rodemy back to lean town (2nd tier) and vezok is higher.
I told you what the problem is, what the **** is this? Of course we have similar wolves. Name one person in this thread town reading LnGrrrr?
Then you're not solving either?
I'm just not sure what you want from Tom.
Seems like a bull***** read.
Sure 40% is higher, but Tom feels confidant on his wolf reads. Which are near identical to you.
In what universe is that "nearly identical"? Holy **** dude.
Wolf read me if you want, but this conversation is getting us no where. And why would I be confidant in my wolf reads? LnGrrr is pretty sunk (even his wolf mates have probably been busing him since yesterday), but apart from that...I think Kami is wolf here, but if he flips town, I am not going to be shocked. tom could go either way at this stage. My gut says he is falling, but I can't tell if that's the OMGUS talking, or if I think he is legit wolfing.
Barely anyone is playing, even you have to admit that. How could anyone be confidant in their reads? I was even thinking about Mind, about one time I pushed him when he was townie and he flipped out huge AtE. Here, I didn't really see that, even when he was butting heads with you. Maybe he overreacted, but maybe he is a wolf. Anak's start is decent, I stand by that. High roller, I don't even know. I didn't think Tau was bad, but relatively unknown. I'm stuck. We really need a ******* vig shot, even if I have to bite it. Just too much stuff to clear.
Hi gj im not in the mood to be emotionally manipulated so im not responding to most of what you just said.
Reevaluating doesnt mean changing though. No, they didnt change a whole lot. I noticed that they didnt. So what?
What of my reads are you even taking issue with other than scumreading you?
Its not im bad or im a wolf pushing you.
Its im town, and you have been scummy. You shouting that youre obv town without being so doesnt change that.
Yes, i think youre more interested in aggression than thoughtfulness. Yes, thats in your town range.
If you think i should be townreading you, go do something townie. That thing will never be "*****ing about how tom isnt townreading you"
I have been hunting, I have been trying to reread. I have been looking back at isos, and responding to questions. Instead of some pointless ******* dodge, why don't you ******* tell me why I am wrong for disliking tubba's catch up, or was that emotional manipulation as well? And
As far as my problems with your reads, apart from myself, I went into detail why I didn't like where your grape read fell without stating why, or why KJ was absent from that list (I know he brought that up). Instead, you browbeated him for it. why is that tom, or that emotional manipulation to ask that question?
You also have Highroller/Tau, who hasn't made a post in probably, almost a week or two (and HR has done nothing since then) and you have him higher than Vaimes? If I flip town, does that change? Can I ask that, or is that emotional manipulation?
@GJ
Look if you’re just skimming the game and stirring the pot, you’re naturally gonna miss some stuff.
I’ll try and break it down for you. (Even though you declined to bring it up with me)
Grape’s position on me has been decidedly town, even in the face of some alleged wolf behaviour. Why would I pocket him more?
Tom’s #1580 refers to the “neighbours”
In it he mentions the possibility of one of them being scum, and in conjunction with Grape/KJ, the possibility of one scum in four is higher. I don’t believe that scum is Grape, which influences my KJ read. I don’t believe that scum is Tau.
Paragraphs are too long, poopin sentences are too short...
I don’t like rice pudding with raisins, but that’s not really helpful.
I have mentioned my wavering on KJ. If I lock in a Grape read, I have to rate KJ higher.
Sure, D_V’s post count is high, quantity doesn’t equal quality if you take my meaning. They’re a town lean that I want to see more of. I want to see them push more.
You missed the best part of this paragraph, and a golden opportunity to engage with me, instead of looking for me to just be scum.
Rhand and Whisper were on EtR’s supposed scum team. Someone mentioned how that disproved the theory of EtR being scum and I don’t see it that way.
Soft outed is for sure, towniest is debatable. Just my thoughts on something else that has been discussed in thread.
*wink and finger guns*
If there’s anything else you’d like to know about, feel free to bring it up with a third party in a most unflattering manner.
I guess the thing I don't get is that your reads haven't moved, and yet, you seemed to be completely ok with Rhand. Yes, I am sure you were sad you couldn't get me yesterday, but you had three wolf reads and decided to **** it, let the game progress, and then ended up voting Rhand? Why, may I ask, did you not at least give an effort me yesterday, or is that question emotional manipulation?
I do apologize if I have overstepped my bounds. I just want to make sure you feel comfortable, and understand so I can get rid of this nagging feeling that you aren't just a wolf trying to push me. Trust me tom, I am trying but I am afraid you are making it quite difficult.
@GJ
Look if you’re just skimming the game and stirring the pot, you’re naturally gonna miss some stuff.
I’ll try and break it down for you. (Even though you declined to bring it up with me)
Grape’s position on me has been decidedly town, even in the face of some alleged wolf behaviour. Why would I pocket him more?
Tom’s #1580 refers to the “neighbours”
In it he mentions the possibility of one of them being scum, and in conjunction with Grape/KJ, the possibility of one scum in four is higher. I don’t believe that scum is Grape, which influences my KJ read. I don’t believe that scum is Tau.
Paragraphs are too long, poopin sentences are too short...
I don’t like rice pudding with raisins, but that’s not really helpful.
I have mentioned my wavering on KJ. If I lock in a Grape read, I have to rate KJ higher.
Sure, D_V’s post count is high, quantity doesn’t equal quality if you take my meaning. They’re a town lean that I want to see more of. I want to see them push more.
You missed the best part of this paragraph, and a golden opportunity to engage with me, instead of looking for me to just be scum.
Rhand and Whisper were on EtR’s supposed scum team. Someone mentioned how that disproved the theory of EtR being scum and I don’t see it that way.
Soft outed is for sure, towniest is debatable. Just my thoughts on something else that has been discussed in thread.
*wink and finger guns*
If there’s anything else you’d like to know about, feel free to bring it up with a third party in a most unflattering manner.
I am not going to like, I like this response. I don't like that I had to open a 2nd tab to try and figure out context of the each critique, but I like it.
What if I told you I would keep Grape as town, even if KJ flipped wolf?
Reevaluating doesnt mean changing though. No, they didnt change a whole lot. I noticed that they didnt. So what?
In my experience as both town and wolf, I have noticed that wolves, more often than town tend to have more static reads. They almost never move on wolves, and begrudgingly move on townies. I hope you won't find this statement to be emotional manipulation either, but that was merely an observation I made, and why I brought it up. I don't know why you seem so sure, when even when I reread people, I feel lost. LnGrrr doesn't have a smoking gun post, nor does Kami. If they did, I would have shared it (or maybe they do and I am too stupid too notice it). I suppose I could just multi quote poster dump a spoiler and just go "no hunting, bnarely any hunting" but that feels pointless. Also for whatever reason, me and muilt quote on this site don't get along.
@GJ
Look if you’re just skimming the game and stirring the pot, you’re naturally gonna miss some stuff.
I’ll try and break it down for you. (Even though you declined to bring it up with me)
Grape’s position on me has been decidedly town, even in the face of some alleged wolf behaviour. Why would I pocket him more?
Tom’s #1580 refers to the “neighbours”
In it he mentions the possibility of one of them being scum, and in conjunction with Grape/KJ, the possibility of one scum in four is higher. I don’t believe that scum is Grape, which influences my KJ read. I don’t believe that scum is Tau.
Paragraphs are too long, poopin sentences are too short...
I don’t like rice pudding with raisins, but that’s not really helpful.
I have mentioned my wavering on KJ. If I lock in a Grape read, I have to rate KJ higher.
Sure, D_V’s post count is high, quantity doesn’t equal quality if you take my meaning. They’re a town lean that I want to see more of. I want to see them push more.
You missed the best part of this paragraph, and a golden opportunity to engage with me, instead of looking for me to just be scum.
Rhand and Whisper were on EtR’s supposed scum team. Someone mentioned how that disproved the theory of EtR being scum and I don’t see it that way.
Soft outed is for sure, towniest is debatable. Just my thoughts on something else that has been discussed in thread.
*wink and finger guns*
If there’s anything else you’d like to know about, feel free to bring it up with a third party in a most unflattering manner.
I am not going to like, I like this response. I don't like that I had to open a 2nd tab to try and figure out context of the each critique, but I like it.
What if I told you I would keep Grape as town, even if KJ flipped wolf?
I’d agree. I’d be surprised if KJ flips scum at this point, but I can see it as infinitely more likely than Grape.
I think I'm feeling this. Vote: Tom it's probably worse than anak first and them Tom if he's town but meh.
@GJ Tom can bus and one of these days I'm going to get burned when he goes for a hard bus, but he has been for several games running not bussing weaker buddies early. Or at least not pushing them hard. Anak he's pushed hard enough that even if I wouldn't hard clear him over it I'd give him strong credit over a scum flip.
As for playstation the only thing I remember is you hard defending me when my flip would have been enough to win the game iirc. Maybe I'm off by a phase but as I remember it you saved me early in a day then I hard cleared you for it and you effectively won that night (well first post of the next day). Am I off base? I really just remember the gut punch of realizing it was over after I felt so awesome for not getting miscondemned and drawing the NK.
Anyone trying to condemn Tubba can do it over my dead body. It will be really embarrassing when I'm wrong but I've decided to die on the tubba is town hill.
Hi gj im not in the mood to be emotionally manipulated so im not responding to most of what you just said.
Reevaluating doesnt mean changing though. No, they didnt change a whole lot. I noticed that they didnt. So what?
What of my reads are you even taking issue with other than scumreading you?
Its not im bad or im a wolf pushing you.
Its im town, and you have been scummy. You shouting that youre obv town without being so doesnt change that.
Yes, i think youre more interested in aggression than thoughtfulness. Yes, thats in your town range.
If you think i should be townreading you, go do something townie. That thing will never be "*****ing about how tom isnt townreading you"
I have been hunting, I have been trying to reread. I have been looking back at isos, and responding to questions. Instead of some pointless ******* dodge, why don't you ******* tell me why I am wrong for disliking tubba's catch up, or was that emotional manipulation as well? And
As far as my problems with your reads, apart from myself, I went into detail why I didn't like where your grape read fell without stating why, or why KJ was absent from that list (I know he brought that up). Instead, you browbeated him for it. why is that tom, or that emotional manipulation to ask that question?
You also have Highroller/Tau, who hasn't made a post in probably, almost a week or two (and HR has done nothing since then) and you have him higher than Vaimes? If I flip town, does that change? Can I ask that, or is that emotional manipulation?
tubbas catchup was whatever. The issue i have is more with liking anaks when its essentially a more dispassionate version of tubbas. You gave me silly wording tells, and avoided mentioning anak at all.
This has been noted for posterity, but im not sure what id respond to about it.
I did not leave kj off the list. I just didnt iso him. And, as i told kj, if youd read my posts youd know why. The one where i talked about grape and kj after they answered my questions about eachother, and combined them in to one name that has to be considered together. Which i think is pretty reasonable as they are inexorably linked.
And the placement is because i think they are more likely to contain a wolf than [my actual townreads] but still less than anyone else.
Im actually fairly happy with that placement.
Highroller aint done ***** but tau was >rand town. I made a post about it. Feel free to argue with it.
Vaimes ive been asking for peoples townreads on cuz i cant see it. Feel free to enlighten me.
Also feel free to just continue being a snot about it and get lynched d3 or so
I think I'm feeling this. Vote: Tom it's probably worse than anak first and them Tom if he's town but meh.
@GJ Tom can bus and one of these days I'm going to get burned when he goes for a hard bus, but he has been for several games running not bussing weaker buddies early. Or at least not pushing them hard. Anak he's pushed hard enough that even if I wouldn't hard clear him over it I'd give him strong credit over a scum flip.
As for playstation the only thing I remember is you hard defending me when my flip would have been enough to win the game iirc. Maybe I'm off by a phase but as I remember it you saved me early in a day then I hard cleared you for it and you effectively won that night (well first post of the next day). Am I off base? I really just remember the gut punch of realizing it was over after I felt so awesome for not getting miscondemned and drawing the NK.
Anyone trying to condemn Tubba can do it over my dead body. It will be really embarrassing when I'm wrong but I've decided to die on the tubba is town hill.
hi grape that vote wont count because its not on its own line i suggest voting someone scummy instead though
Even if i am scum im not lynchable today and you know it
You are a veteran player tom. You aren't stupid enough to think KJ could be town with a fake peak. Grape should either be lock town, or not. Your placement is bad for a player that is mechanically clear. Just admit it, quit this posturing bull*****. You aren't impressing anybody.
As for as tau go, I am assuming this is the post you are referencing:
Come away from tau iso, and he
Says some stuff, asks some questions, decent readslist but certainly nothing unfakeable. Thing i like the most is admitting the gambit was bravado and thinking about all possiblities here, but he doesnt follow up on that (or his previous reads). Which is ubfortunate but not AI its clearly oog reasons for lurking out
*taking a town point from vaimes for shading him for that*
Etr iso, think its mostly good posts. I agree with several of his stances, can see his processes. It looks town to me. As with tau theres some element of "good posters gonna make good posts", but still a townlean except
And at this point, I'll just say it since I'm 99.9% to be the lynch. He could be a neutral. His flavor probably has something to do with taking over the family. I don't know what his ability would be when he unlocks it. But by pulling this gambit he can get some town cred (i.e. Why would a scum risk this).
Is just
A scum mindset.
So
highroller/ETR
Or
highrollerETR (averaging out colors)
On my eventual rainbow wall
Thats not super satisfying, but probably all i should have on 2 good, lowposting players on day 2... guess were building this rainbow wall from the middle, and continuing to read etr and adding hr to the mix.
Let me ask you this (assuming you find KJ is town), what are the odds you think both neighbors are town and KJ's role exist, considering the power we have seen so far this game?
As far as arguing with it, I though Tau had decent tone myself. I think Vaimes has more tone, and had decent day 1 hunting. I don't really have a post that points to Vaimes town posting, but it's there. I don't really have anyhting else to go with, apart from the fact that the one game he wasn't town that I was in, I caught him (sk in Ace Attorney). Read his day 1 again. I'll think about gonig back and finding the specific posts I liked.
As far as the anak posts, his posts always come off emotionless and dispassionate. It's pretty NAI for him.
Sorry I meant to be more active but the last couple days have been a lot. Also going to be travelling and with no internet for the weekend, so will make sure to catch back up and post Sunday evening after I return.
You are a veteran player tom. You aren't stupid enough to think KJ could be town with a fake peak. Grape should either be lock town, or not. Your placement is bad for a player that is mechanically clear. Just admit it, quit this posturing bull*****. You aren't impressing anybody.
As for as tau go, I am assuming this is the post you are referencing:
Come away from tau iso, and he
Says some stuff, asks some questions, decent readslist but certainly nothing unfakeable. Thing i like the most is admitting the gambit was bravado and thinking about all possiblities here, but he doesnt follow up on that (or his previous reads). Which is ubfortunate but not AI its clearly oog reasons for lurking out
*taking a town point from vaimes for shading him for that*
Etr iso, think its mostly good posts. I agree with several of his stances, can see his processes. It looks town to me. As with tau theres some element of "good posters gonna make good posts", but still a townlean except
And at this point, I'll just say it since I'm 99.9% to be the lynch. He could be a neutral. His flavor probably has something to do with taking over the family. I don't know what his ability would be when he unlocks it. But by pulling this gambit he can get some town cred (i.e. Why would a scum risk this).
Is just
A scum mindset.
So
highroller/ETR
Or
highrollerETR (averaging out colors)
On my eventual rainbow wall
Thats not super satisfying, but probably all i should have on 2 good, lowposting players on day 2... guess were building this rainbow wall from the middle, and continuing to read etr and adding hr to the mix.
Let me ask you this (assuming you find KJ is town), what are the odds you think both neighbors are town and KJ's role exist, considering the power we have seen so far this game?
As far as arguing with it, I though Tau had decent tone myself. I think Vaimes has more tone, and had decent day 1 hunting. I don't really have a post that points to Vaimes town posting, but it's there. I don't really have anyhting else to go with, apart from the fact that the one game he wasn't town that I was in, I caught him (sk in Ace Attorney). Read his day 1 again. I'll think about gonig back and finding the specific posts I liked.
As far as the anak posts, his posts always come off emotionless and dispassionate. It's pretty NAI for him.
i think grape/kj could be w/w, i think kj could be scum, i think grape could be godfather.
The combined likelihood of the 3 doesnt add up to much, thus being my second highest towntier, but still more than dv or rod being scum.
As ive said
I think kj/grape being town makes it more likely theres a wolf in the neighbors
As ive said
This is part of the problem johnny. You say youre reading and asking questions but you obviously arent or the answers wouldnt exist already.
Would still love for anyone to show me vaimes having townie tone ive looked its just not. Hes fine. I dont want to lynch him. But he hasnt shown me hes town how can multiple be convinced and none of them can say a word about why?
You are a veteran player tom. You aren't stupid enough to think KJ could be town with a fake peak. Grape should either be lock town, or not. Your placement is bad for a player that is mechanically clear. Just admit it, quit this posturing bull*****. You aren't impressing anybody.
As for as tau go, I am assuming this is the post you are referencing:
Come away from tau iso, and he
Says some stuff, asks some questions, decent readslist but certainly nothing unfakeable. Thing i like the most is admitting the gambit was bravado and thinking about all possiblities here, but he doesnt follow up on that (or his previous reads). Which is ubfortunate but not AI its clearly oog reasons for lurking out
*taking a town point from vaimes for shading him for that*
Etr iso, think its mostly good posts. I agree with several of his stances, can see his processes. It looks town to me. As with tau theres some element of "good posters gonna make good posts", but still a townlean except
And at this point, I'll just say it since I'm 99.9% to be the lynch. He could be a neutral. His flavor probably has something to do with taking over the family. I don't know what his ability would be when he unlocks it. But by pulling this gambit he can get some town cred (i.e. Why would a scum risk this).
Is just
A scum mindset.
So
highroller/ETR
Or
highrollerETR (averaging out colors)
On my eventual rainbow wall
Thats not super satisfying, but probably all i should have on 2 good, lowposting players on day 2... guess were building this rainbow wall from the middle, and continuing to read etr and adding hr to the mix.
Let me ask you this (assuming you find KJ is town), what are the odds you think both neighbors are town and KJ's role exist, considering the power we have seen so far this game?
As far as arguing with it, I though Tau had decent tone myself. I think Vaimes has more tone, and had decent day 1 hunting. I don't really have a post that points to Vaimes town posting, but it's there. I don't really have anyhting else to go with, apart from the fact that the one game he wasn't town that I was in, I caught him (sk in Ace Attorney). Read his day 1 again. I'll think about gonig back and finding the specific posts I liked.
As far as the anak posts, his posts always come off emotionless and dispassionate. It's pretty NAI for him.
i think grape/kj could be w/w, i think kj could be scum, i think grape could be godfather.
The combined likelihood of the 3 doesnt add up to much, thus being my second highest towntier, but still more than dv or rod being scum.
As ive said
I think kj/grape being town makes it more likely theres a wolf in the neighbors
As ive said
This is part of the problem johnny. You say youre reading and asking questions but you obviously arent or the answers wouldnt exist already.
Would still love for anyone to show me vaimes having townie tone ive looked its just not. Hes fine. I dont want to lynch him. But he hasnt shown me hes town how can multiple be convinced and none of them can say a word about why?
Lot of posts. You gonna wolf read everyone who misses one?
As far as the first boldest, I think you can at least agree that that would be bastard territory. I will straight up not count this game if town KJ had a green peek on a wolf Grape.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
And for the record, johnny absolutely doesnt believe im scum right now.
Thats plain in his posts.
Vaimes prolly wouldnt be trying very hard to read me regardless of his alignment but hopping on a tom wagon for the lulz is solidly in his town range
Heres where id be discrediting grapes read if he had literally anything to discredit.
Can kind of see his pushes on me/dv being emboldened by his "conftown" status and that might actually be a townie look for him. Which is a pleasant surprise i still find him scummier than anyone in this game other than mindreaver
So
Fun wagon guys woohoo you might get another vote or two especially if anak/lngrr/kami/tubba are acum have fun with that
As far as the first boldest, I think you can at least agree that that would be bastard territory. I will straight up not count this game if town KJ had a green peek on a wolf Grape.
yeah ill agree that's the least likely mechanically
Grape iso is so god damn wolfy though...
Were talking 1% godfather, and like 5-10% kj is a wolf, with grape or not.
Thats why its a moderately strong townread
Also, do you think there might just be NO scum in Tubba/Kami? Why or why not?
@Tom: Why did you skip Kami if he's in the middle of your list, but not Grape who's alignment is tied to mine (who you also skipped?)
Would you like to push me for laziness?
Kami (3): LnGrr, Anak, vezok
LnGrr (2): dv, gj
Anak (2): tom, vaimes
Gj (1): Rodemy
Not Voting (3): Tubba, Kami, Highroller
All of these wagons could be scum. Think the kami wagon was pretty ***** but thats more about who was on it than kami himself.
At its peak today:
Kami (5): LnGrr, Anak, gj, vezok, dv
Gonna pull up some other peak wagons hold on
61
Last(5): Tau, Ruma, Rod, Grape, kami321
Grape (5):
rhand, mind, tom, Vaimes, Rod366
LnGrr (5): Tau,
Last, vaimes, tubba, tom469
EtR (8): Tau, Grape, Mind, Kami, Vaimes,
Last, rhand, tubba1467
rhand(9): EtR, DV, Vaimes, Kami, Tubba, Vezok, rod, tom,Last1812
Kami (5): LnGrr, Anak, gj, vezok, dv
Kami wagon was so gross. prolly not voting there anytime soon even if he is scummy when he gets around to playing this game
Looking at votes and unalignments and *****, think theres on average 1 scum in etr>tubba>kami>highroller
Leaving ~3 in anak>gj>lngrr>>vez>vaimes>>[kj/grape shenanigans]
Would support wagons on anak/gj/lngrr
A few others i wouldnt fight, but officially against a Kami wagon now
Its not that hard but ok
61
Last(5): highroller, vez, Rod, Grape, kami321
Grape (5):
rhand, anak, tom, Vaimes, Rod366
LnGrr (5): highroller,
Last, vaimes, tubba, tom469
EtR (8): highroller, Grape, anak, Kami, Vaimes,
Last, rhand, tubba1467
rhand(9): EtR, DV, Vaimes, Kami, Tubba, Vezok, rod, tom,Last1812
Kami (5): LnGrr, Anak, gj, vezok, dv
Rodemy
Grapefruit21
Killjoy
Highroller/Reaverb Tau
EtR
Vaimes
Anaklusmos/M1ndreaver
Gentleman Johnny/August
KamikazeArchon
Tubba Fett
vezokpiraka/Rumanshi
LnGrrrR
With my bold you could almost just organize that group in any order and I wouldn't protest.
I've got a reason for light scum reading him that is almost entirely based on his town read on me.
Mind/Anak should be higher.
Tom, I think Mind/Anak is likely town due to how mind thought.
When I caught him in his web of lies, he sort of indicated that wasn't the purpose of what he was talking about. What do I mean by this. Well, Mind seemed to want the most generous interpretation of his actions/words to be applied. In other words in his mind the exact wording shouldn't matter and the overall IDEA of what he was saying should be what is analyzed. Which is weird because he wanted to be exact with me and hold my words to have exact meaning and ignore the overall IDEA of what I was saying.
I'd like to read him as town for this due to him, not thinking that what he was asking for was unreasonable. In fact he got quite frustrated with me in the end due to me pointing out how he used exact words, that meant something else. I don't think scum would get mad at me for catching them in that, that's the game, and that's the rub. In fact I think scum when seeing that would expect that to be a thing. Instead he got mad about it, which to me is a town tell in this exact circumstance.
I have two good examples I can point to of this happening before. Once, when Osie and I argued and he used the word LITERALLY when he meant SUBJECTIVELY. And secondly is offsite on MAL where I hard pressured someone for this exact same loose hyperbole words and they doubled down on them meaning what they said they meant and that I was wrong. Both of these players were town. I'm willing to extend a slight town read to that slot for the same interaction.
But hes def got some srances that feel bad in [worlds]. His etr>tau chain. Townread on grape + impact on read on kj are weird. Townreads om you and gj. "Seppel is seppel" read on me.
Its a bunch of shrugs man
Generally, I'd agree I feel like this is more of an overall mindset read.
IDK, its shaky at best.
K.
You played in playstation. Both tom and Kpaca pretty much had me marked as a wolf all game. tom can bus almost as hard as I do so even if I am wrong about Anak, that doesn't lock him in as town. You of all people in this game should know that, because you got burned by me that game.
You wanna real talk tom? Let's real talk.
Those two lists are days apart, and are as static as static can be. You aren't re-evaluating, you aren't even trying. So either you are so absurdly confidant you just pegged the team down, and just can't seem to get anyone to follow you, or you are a wolf manufacturing reads. It doesn't help that if we are "real talking" my town read of you broken down, is just a TWTBW read. Like *****, the arrogance you think on me being a wolf read. You weren't even that sure in Grape's ******* game with a ******* red check, until I outed myself.
But we are real talking now, so here we go. You want to know what I didn't like about Tubba's post? Let's break it down:
Why does he need to do that? It sounds like a pocketing attempt. In addition to it really not being relevent right now (unless there is some idea of charging at Highroller. It's a dedicated barn read. The meta part is pretty nai, but it's a paragraph, that could have been one sentence. The slim possibility makes it feel like he is trying to make it look like a hashed out read.
I don't like the bolded, but don't really have a reason why.
Like, why take the time to analyze a Grape post for his alignment unless you have reason to doubt KJ. Really strange way to go about it.
Apart from you, DV has been one of the most active posters in the game. More implies he isn't posting enough, or isn't hunting enough. I don't think he believes either of those are true, so I don't get that. It feels forced.
The self conscious feels off, but whatever.
Why does Rhand flipping town make EtR more likely to be a wolf? Curious also implies he isn't full convinced EtR is a wolf, which is fine, but if we have vig shots, I don't know why EtR helps here. He doesn't explain why that flips would work out, so it feels off, again.
That's an odd speculation to make, considering LW was somewhat outed as a PR, and probably the towniest person in the thread. It's also completely baseless speculation.
*blinks*
Anak's post goes more into detail, I feel and I overall like his tone. If there is one thing I dislike, it was that he used "things" too much. WOuld have liked to see specifics, and him to post more. I though he was going to pick up the pace a bit, and feel like he has fallen off.
But tom, you are me. I am town. I have two players in here who just recently wolfed with me, and both harping on my *****. Game is filled with ******* slankers, so I am trying to push forward. I can shove people and one of two things are going to happen: They get lynched, or they start ******* town posting.
If I was a wolf here, I just let the game sit. Yes, I can move my range and one of my strongest abilities as a wolf if that I am too slippery for meta. But how many recent wolf games have you seen where I try to press the attack and take charge, versus wait in the weeds and pick players off? And if there is a player (you) who has seen me wolf multiple times, and is yet wolfreading me when I am obvious town, how would you react to that player?
Now lets get back to my problem. I am getting wolf read for whatever reason, trying to push people, hunt them down, and re-evaluating. And I am not only getting wolf read by this one particular player, but also by a large chunk of people, who are either wolves or town. It's hard to focus when you feel like you are the only one giving a ***** about this game while other people are just like "this guys wolfing." Because while I think there are wolves thinking I am a mislynch, I am objective enough to know that probably half the players are town. And while I try to convince the people I know are town to reconsider, even if one of them (I am 99% sure) is just salty and "doesn't being burned by me again", it makes me life hard and I just don't want to bother anymore.
You keep saying more time for Kami. Do you know what the problem with that strat is? You can't use that strat with everyone, unless you want to no lynch days 1 and 2. People here seem too concerned with trying to find this wolfy post, or wolfy comment, when they should also be looking for what is absent. As I have posted this, Kami has made a couple of bigger posts. I have issues with that as well, and maybe for my 1 post tomorrow, if I post, I'll go into detail. But my reads are on people not hunting, because those people don't get ******* passes while I am playing. This is policy here, but if you aren't actively trying to solve as a town, you are game throwing. Period, end of discussion. You can't change my mind. The entire premise of this game is to hunt for wolves as town, and try to look like you are hunting if you are a wolf.
LnGrrr, has the same issue but far less effort. I am willing to look the other way on Kami. I don't know what else I can do to show towniness here. I wasn't salty when you said I was pushing instead of solving, I said the two weren't mutually exclusive. Your implication is that I am pushing, without solving, and don't try to deny that. I am pushing, honestly. Because someone has to. And if you are town, you are pushing at least one bad wolf in me, and if you are a wolf, the **** I ma letting you run shop here. I honestly don't know about you anymore, and that bothers me. But fun fact: I don't think I want to solve you until all this lurking/slanking/not hunting bull***** is cleared out.
So if you are town, tom. Help me, help you. If you are a wolf....I hope the rest of the town can get you if I go down.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
DV + 4 positions
Rod + 3 positions
Grape/KJ - 2 positions
HR(Tau) + 3 Positions
Kami/Tubba/Vaimes all move 2 positions
Vez - 5 positons
But yeah Static.
**** me man.
I'll vote GJ on a GJ wagon too.
His bottom 4 haven't changed. I didn't really look at the middle that much.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Considering his bottom four includes VEZ and it didn't before since Vez was Ruma before replacements it has changed.
So, I'm not sure what you're even talking about there.
Tubba/Vez/LNGRR
And either GJ or Anak.
DV, riddle me this. Why would I post the lists I was referencing just to make them wrong? Is that really wolfy?
And come on. Grape moved from a 1st tier town read, to a 2nd tier town read. Which actually doesn't make a ton of sense unless his KJ read fell significantly (I know, he didn't do KJ on his list yet, he got lazy) but clearly, he did. For better or worse, Grape only should be lower than top tier town if you think KJ is a wolf. So why isn't KJ at least in his null pile?
Rod moved 3 positions from 2nd tier town to 1st tier. Come on bro. Really?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
and
I think Vez just replaced when he made the first list, or was new enough.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Riddle me this who out of the Rhand/Last flip does any of these five mentioned players make the need for reassessment of scum reads?
I don't ******* know off hand. The only reason I went back to look at his lists was I thought it was strange he had anak as a top wolf read over two posts. I didn't think tom had mind as that strong of a wolf read, so went back to check. And then I saw the list and was curious about it.
Don't give me the percentage *****, it's a small number. You play dota, if you fight two teams, and in both teams, a single player changes heroes (a 20% change) you are for all intents and purposes, still playing the same team. Even if it's the core. I have changed reads quite a bit. So there's that.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
KJ
Grape
Vaimes
tom
DV
Null Line
Highroller
Anak
Rodemy
EtR
Tubba
LnGrrr
Kami
Vezok
dv/rod
grapejoy
highroller
kami/tubba/vaimes
ETR/vez
johnny/lngrr
anak
What exactly is the problem?
Your most recent list is significantly worse.
HR/Tau deserve to at least be slightly town. And so does Rodemy.
Other than that though your lists are almost near identical with the way that you are saying that a few positions doesn't matter.
Yeah because a Mid Viper or a Mid Tinker in the same line up lead to identical game states.
Same team sure, same game not at all.
Is that really my most recent list? I don't remember. I am reading Rodemy back to lean town (2nd tier) and vezok is higher.
I told you what the problem is, what the **** is this? Of course we have similar wolves. Name one person in this thread town reading LnGrrrr?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Then you're not solving either?
I'm just not sure what you want from Tom.
Seems like a bull***** read.
Sure 40% is higher, but Tom feels confidant on his wolf reads. Which are near identical to you.
GJ
KJ
Grape
DV
Vaimes
Rodemy
Null Line
Anak
Vezok
Highroller
tom
EtR
Tubba
LnGrrr
Kami
Yeah I know, I am still a wolf.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
In what universe is that "nearly identical"? Holy **** dude.
Wolf read me if you want, but this conversation is getting us no where. And why would I be confidant in my wolf reads? LnGrrr is pretty sunk (even his wolf mates have probably been busing him since yesterday), but apart from that...I think Kami is wolf here, but if he flips town, I am not going to be shocked. tom could go either way at this stage. My gut says he is falling, but I can't tell if that's the OMGUS talking, or if I think he is legit wolfing.
Barely anyone is playing, even you have to admit that. How could anyone be confidant in their reads? I was even thinking about Mind, about one time I pushed him when he was townie and he flipped out huge AtE. Here, I didn't really see that, even when he was butting heads with you. Maybe he overreacted, but maybe he is a wolf. Anak's start is decent, I stand by that. High roller, I don't even know. I didn't think Tau was bad, but relatively unknown. I'm stuck. We really need a ******* vig shot, even if I have to bite it. Just too much stuff to clear.
And maybe that's an overreaction. We'll see.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Reevaluating doesnt mean changing though. No, they didnt change a whole lot. I noticed that they didnt. So what?
What of my reads are you even taking issue with other than scumreading you?
Its not im bad or im a wolf pushing you.
Its im town, and you have been scummy. You shouting that youre obv town without being so doesnt change that.
Yes, i think youre more interested in aggression than thoughtfulness. Yes, thats in your town range.
If you think i should be townreading you, go do something townie. That thing will never be "*****ing about how tom isnt townreading you"
I have been hunting, I have been trying to reread. I have been looking back at isos, and responding to questions. Instead of some pointless ******* dodge, why don't you ******* tell me why I am wrong for disliking tubba's catch up, or was that emotional manipulation as well? And
As far as my problems with your reads, apart from myself, I went into detail why I didn't like where your grape read fell without stating why, or why KJ was absent from that list (I know he brought that up). Instead, you browbeated him for it. why is that tom, or that emotional manipulation to ask that question?
You also have Highroller/Tau, who hasn't made a post in probably, almost a week or two (and HR has done nothing since then) and you have him higher than Vaimes? If I flip town, does that change? Can I ask that, or is that emotional manipulation?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Look if you’re just skimming the game and stirring the pot, you’re naturally gonna miss some stuff.
I’ll try and break it down for you. (Even though you declined to bring it up with me)
Grape’s position on me has been decidedly town, even in the face of some alleged wolf behaviour. Why would I pocket him more?
Tom’s #1580 refers to the “neighbours”
In it he mentions the possibility of one of them being scum, and in conjunction with Grape/KJ, the possibility of one scum in four is higher. I don’t believe that scum is Grape, which influences my KJ read. I don’t believe that scum is Tau.
Paragraphs are too long, poopin sentences are too short...
I don’t like rice pudding with raisins, but that’s not really helpful.
I have mentioned my wavering on KJ. If I lock in a Grape read, I have to rate KJ higher.
Sure, D_V’s post count is high, quantity doesn’t equal quality if you take my meaning. They’re a town lean that I want to see more of. I want to see them push more.
You missed the best part of this paragraph, and a golden opportunity to engage with me, instead of looking for me to just be scum.
Rhand and Whisper were on EtR’s supposed scum team. Someone mentioned how that disproved the theory of EtR being scum and I don’t see it that way.
Soft outed is for sure, towniest is debatable. Just my thoughts on something else that has been discussed in thread.
*wink and finger guns*
If there’s anything else you’d like to know about, feel free to bring it up with a third party in a most unflattering manner.
I do apologize if I have overstepped my bounds. I just want to make sure you feel comfortable, and understand so I can get rid of this nagging feeling that you aren't just a wolf trying to push me. Trust me tom, I am trying but I am afraid you are making it quite difficult.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I am not going to like, I like this response. I don't like that I had to open a 2nd tab to try and figure out context of the each critique, but I like it.
What if I told you I would keep Grape as town, even if KJ flipped wolf?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
In my experience as both town and wolf, I have noticed that wolves, more often than town tend to have more static reads. They almost never move on wolves, and begrudgingly move on townies. I hope you won't find this statement to be emotional manipulation either, but that was merely an observation I made, and why I brought it up. I don't know why you seem so sure, when even when I reread people, I feel lost. LnGrrr doesn't have a smoking gun post, nor does Kami. If they did, I would have shared it (or maybe they do and I am too stupid too notice it). I suppose I could just multi quote poster dump a spoiler and just go "no hunting, bnarely any hunting" but that feels pointless. Also for whatever reason, me and muilt quote on this site don't get along.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I’d agree. I’d be surprised if KJ flips scum at this point, but I can see it as infinitely more likely than Grape.
@GJ Tom can bus and one of these days I'm going to get burned when he goes for a hard bus, but he has been for several games running not bussing weaker buddies early. Or at least not pushing them hard. Anak he's pushed hard enough that even if I wouldn't hard clear him over it I'd give him strong credit over a scum flip.
As for playstation the only thing I remember is you hard defending me when my flip would have been enough to win the game iirc. Maybe I'm off by a phase but as I remember it you saved me early in a day then I hard cleared you for it and you effectively won that night (well first post of the next day). Am I off base? I really just remember the gut punch of realizing it was over after I felt so awesome for not getting miscondemned and drawing the NK.
Anyone trying to condemn Tubba can do it over my dead body. It will be really embarrassing when I'm wrong but I've decided to die on the tubba is town hill.
This has been noted for posterity, but im not sure what id respond to about it.
I did not leave kj off the list. I just didnt iso him. And, as i told kj, if youd read my posts youd know why. The one where i talked about grape and kj after they answered my questions about eachother, and combined them in to one name that has to be considered together. Which i think is pretty reasonable as they are inexorably linked.
And the placement is because i think they are more likely to contain a wolf than [my actual townreads] but still less than anyone else.
Im actually fairly happy with that placement.
Highroller aint done ***** but tau was >rand town. I made a post about it. Feel free to argue with it.
Vaimes ive been asking for peoples townreads on cuz i cant see it. Feel free to enlighten me.
Also feel free to just continue being a snot about it and get lynched d3 or so
Even if i am scum im not lynchable today and you know it
Separately, I completely forgot about that huge fight DV and Mind had.
Unvote, vote tom
What does this button do?
Unvote, Vote Tom
The GJ way path to no lynching:
As for as tau go, I am assuming this is the post you are referencing:
Let me ask you this (assuming you find KJ is town), what are the odds you think both neighbors are town and KJ's role exist, considering the power we have seen so far this game?
As far as arguing with it, I though Tau had decent tone myself. I think Vaimes has more tone, and had decent day 1 hunting. I don't really have a post that points to Vaimes town posting, but it's there. I don't really have anyhting else to go with, apart from the fact that the one game he wasn't town that I was in, I caught him (sk in Ace Attorney). Read his day 1 again. I'll think about gonig back and finding the specific posts I liked.
As far as the anak posts, his posts always come off emotionless and dispassionate. It's pretty NAI for him.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The combined likelihood of the 3 doesnt add up to much, thus being my second highest towntier, but still more than dv or rod being scum.
As ive said
I think kj/grape being town makes it more likely theres a wolf in the neighbors
As ive said
This is part of the problem johnny. You say youre reading and asking questions but you obviously arent or the answers wouldnt exist already.
Would still love for anyone to show me vaimes having townie tone ive looked its just not. Hes fine. I dont want to lynch him. But he hasnt shown me hes town how can multiple be convinced and none of them can say a word about why?
Lot of posts. You gonna wolf read everyone who misses one?
As far as the first boldest, I think you can at least agree that that would be bastard territory. I will straight up not count this game if town KJ had a green peek on a wolf Grape.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Thats plain in his posts.
Vaimes prolly wouldnt be trying very hard to read me regardless of his alignment but hopping on a tom wagon for the lulz is solidly in his town range
Heres where id be discrediting grapes read if he had literally anything to discredit.
Can kind of see his pushes on me/dv being emboldened by his "conftown" status and that might actually be a townie look for him. Which is a pleasant surprise i still find him scummier than anyone in this game other than mindreaver
So
Fun wagon guys woohoo you might get another vote or two especially if anak/lngrr/kami/tubba are acum have fun with that
Grape iso is so god damn wolfy though...
Were talking 1% godfather, and like 5-10% kj is a wolf, with grape or not.
Thats why its a moderately strong townread