DV: You probably know Tom's scum game better than me. And I recall you being if the opinion that this was town solve Tom we're seeing. Compare and contrast town solve Tom vs. Scum Tom trying to drive the game/lynches the way he wants? And can you help show me that's not him this game?
I'm not sure I have the best read on scum Tom. I caught him once, but I'm wondering if that reason was more a fluke than anything.
MY best guess is scum Tom, leaves options open. But that isn't entirely true either.
This game, I feel pretty confident on him being town and its the exact reason he quoted for me. Mindmelds. Toms said a lot of things where I've been thinking the exact same thing.
Also, I need to read that Anak post, but I haven't yet. Grumble Grumble.
I'm coming off on mindmelds being a good tell.
Was it you that said he was town for how he was solving? I thought that was you.
mindmelds in general are very unreliable.
Me and DV mindmelding is special
And that was vezok calling me solvey in general, johnny saying only day 2 after farting around day 1, and anak saying only day 1 and ive been worse today iirc
Tubba I don't think that meme means what you think it means.
It’s close enough
Did you play Low Fantasy Mafia?
I did but died almost instantly.
And I don't think it is. The point of the meme is that mr. anime dude is completely and obviously wrong about what he's seeing. The original is calling a butterfly a pigeon iirc.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Grape: could we maybe do less arguing with Tubba about pointless things and perhaps get him to say some things that might indicate alignment?
I just want him talking period. If he's talking he'll say something relevant eventually. Also meme clarity is very important to me.
But seriously because the meme says the opposite of what he was trying to say I was trying to figure out if he actually thought GJ was powerwolfing.
I probably could have done that better.
KamikazeArchon
EtR
tomsloger
Anaklusmos M1ndreaver
Gentleman Johnny August
LnGrrrR
vezokpiraka Rumanshi
I'm town, KJ knew my flavor and reads townie, Vaimes reads very townie, DV is everyone's top town read but mine so he can be town too, when Rod was around he pinged and bounced around exactly the way I'd expect town!Rod to. This read is a bit weaker and his absence is awkward but hopefully he picks back up where he left off.
Highroller hasn't done a ton to read yet but I don't believe that Tau would have done this whole neighbor chat faking scum thing as scum. He's way too competent and skilled to go all in on a gimmick like this. Just doesn't need it. Tubba has been pop in central but I think they've been townie pop-ins. The main qualifier here is that Tubba can flip the switch, get active and bleed town (Friends and Enemies is the clearest example but it's happened elsewhere), if this doesn't happen at any point then view him with more skepticism.
Grape
KJ, Vaimes, DV, Rodemy
Highroller, Tubba
I have the other 7 in a mushy pile of barely any seperation. I have them all as being vaguely scummy to similar degrees. I'd condemn any of KA, GJ, LnGrrrR, and Vez and a heartbeat, and I'm not sure I'd need to consider much longer for tom or EtR. Anak I'd have to ponder so I guess that makes him the towniest by default.
I think it's time to ISO Vez, KA, and LnG. GJ opinions are much fresher in my mind.
He's being Vaimes. His thoughts make sense and he sounds like his normal self. Normally I wouldn't make that sort of tone based meta read but it hasn't bitten me on Vaimes yet.
The fact that you have Tubba higher than me right now tilts me in ways I can't even put into a single post on this site. I hope you can understand the rage filling my words write now, so that I do not have to use my time to write exactly how angry I am.
I also proceeded to take a 12ish hour break to better let other people read, as at least one person *****ed about the length being a problem to reread. Imagine my unending disappointment that a grand total of 14 posts have taken place, of which, perhaps half were not ***** posts or pop ins, and that is me being unbelievably generous.
Quote from Grape »
Tubba has been pop in central but I think they've been townie pop-ins.
I beg you, nay plead you to show me the townieness his question about my three wolf reads I had the page before his pop in or his defending of his meme that was so wrong in its execution, it boards absurdity. Even if I pretend that WolfTubba can't actually appear townie (which is what you imply when you say something like he can just flip a switch and get active) how many days do you give him to do that? You'll be staring at day 4 and might have half the game fighting to be higher than the mod at the rate this is going.
He's being Vaimes. His thoughts make sense and he sounds like his normal self. Normally I wouldn't make that sort of tone based meta read but it hasn't bitten me on Vaimes yet.
help me out man. Sounds like were looking for similar things but i havent found them
Regarding the oracle question: I'd do the same thing tom said. I can't give a post number as that would require a complete reread and I have no time or desire to do something like this.
Also would the mod highlight the lies and truths or just that the whole post has to be true or else it's false? Also I assume it matters if the person knows what he is talking about.
Like town saying: X is scum (but he is actually scum) won't show up in the oracle shot, but scum saying X is town and him being scum shows up as a lie.
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I had no motivation to ISO dive tonight but to the two questions asked of me in a (righteously) incredulous tone a quick reply.
I don't think Tubba comes in and drops memes like that as scum. I realize this is a stupid sounding read but I just don't. As for how long I give him until he bleeds town, in the example I referenced it took till there was only one townie spare for him to show townie. Basically if something he has staked his claim in is the center of attention and he's still in the shadows is what it would take for me to reevaluate.
The fact that you have Tubba higher than me right now tilts me in ways I can't even put into a single post on this site. I hope you can understand the rage filling my words write now, so that I do not have to use my time to write exactly how angry I am.
Onto less spherical concerns...
I strongly agree with Grapes position on HR/Tau. The gambit is nonsensical from scumTau. His scum game IMO, is quite good and the gambit would be unnecessary noise and attention. If the “neighbours” have one scum, I’d be fairly surprised it was Tau. The only slim possibility I could see it occurring would be if they felt pressure to save a buddy. It was the middle of D1, nothing was happening to justify that. The absence following is disconcerting, but at the same time why not try to press the confusion into a mislynch.
I wouldn’t say Vaimes is super towny. I’d go townish. I’ve definitely seen townier Vaimes. Still I’ve seen enough good things to move him up from null.
This is town Grape, I’d bet 1000 gil on that. I was hesitant about KJ’s reliability regarding the green check and some of Grape’s positions earlier looked a little weird, but this is good old townGrape.
I really want D_V to be town. I’ve read them wrong every game so far because of clashing over playstyle. I want to see some more from them before I go stronger than a town lean.
Blah blah consensus town leans blah blah
The squishy middle is the interesting part. How do you bring something up without tipping the party in question off about it?
Still want to flip EtR, still thinks there’s a reasonable chance they’re scum, Rhand and Whisper’s flips don’t change anything for me there, if anything it makes me more curious.
Whisper probably died defending one of KJ or GF. (KJ is 85% lock town for me based on my Grape read.) Unless in the 15% world KJ is scum and wifom, but I feel despite the soft outing of a PR, it’d be more beneficial to nuke a green check over a random, possible, PR.
Scumslotting Vez over their placement (or lack thereof) of Hrape is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, and I’ve heard everything I’ve ever posted. Anyone pushing that is gonna be getting some side eye.
The common usage of that meme format is as Grape described, but layers and nuance are getting big in the meme game.
The fact that you have Tubba higher than me right now tilts me in ways I can't even put into a single post on this site. I hope you can understand the rage filling my words write now, so that I do not have to use my time to write exactly how angry I am.
Onto less spherical concerns...
I strongly agree with Grapes position on HR/Tau. The gambit is nonsensical from scumTau. His scum game IMO, is quite good and the gambit would be unnecessary noise and attention. If the “neighbours” have one scum, I’d be fairly surprised it was Tau. The only slim possibility I could see it occurring would be if they felt pressure to save a buddy. It was the middle of D1, nothing was happening to justify that. The absence following is disconcerting, but at the same time why not try to press the confusion into a mislynch.
I wouldn’t say Vaimes is super towny. I’d go townish. I’ve definitely seen townier Vaimes. Still I’ve seen enough good things to move him up from null.
This is town Grape, I’d bet 1000 gil on that. I was hesitant about KJ’s reliability regarding the green check and some of Grape’s positions earlier looked a little weird, but this is good old townGrape.
I really want D_V to be town. I’ve read them wrong every game so far because of clashing over playstyle. I want to see some more from them before I go stronger than a town lean.
Blah blah consensus town leans blah blah
The squishy middle is the interesting part. How do you bring something up without tipping the party in question off about it?
Still want to flip EtR, still thinks there’s a reasonable chance they’re scum, Rhand and Whisper’s flips don’t change anything for me there, if anything it makes me more curious.
Whisper probably died defending one of KJ or GF. (KJ is 85% lock town for me based on my Grape read.) Unless in the 15% world KJ is scum and wifom, but I feel despite the soft outing of a PR, it’d be more beneficial to nuke a green check over a random, possible, PR.
Scumslotting Vez over their placement (or lack thereof) of Hrape is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, and I’ve heard everything I’ve ever posted. Anyone pushing that is gonna be getting some side eye.
The common usage of that meme format is as Grape described, but layers and nuance are getting big in the meme game.
V/LA: KamikazeArchon (March 1st - 3rd, March 8th - 10th)
With 16 alive, it’s 9 to lynch. Deadline is on March 8th.
Tom asks a very good question here.
If GJ is scum.. it looks like his entire team is probably avoiding the rhand wagon. It makes sense concidering at that point the ETR wagon was dying. Maybe they are still on the ETR wagon and looking for an easy way to jump wagons? It would be too obvious to just.. jump.
So we should look into Tubba, Kami, Mind, Vaimes in no particular order.
If VAIMES is scum, that could mean GJ is scum with him and his callout is a distancing tactic. Although i see very little effort into the vaimes push.
Vaimes/gj is possible.
So if Vaimes/gj then i doubt the rest of the scum are on those two wagons alone.
Tubba is a good bet but i am still iffy.
I would put some money on Tau actually. I remember getting scum vibes from him earlier in the game, but i honestly can't remember why. I should go back and look
So Vaimes, Gj, Tau/tubba and LnGrr.
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V/LA: KamikazeArchon (March 1st - 3rd, March 8th - 10th)
With 16 alive, it’s 9 to lynch. Deadline is on March 8th.
Tom asks a very good question here.
If GJ is scum.. it looks like his entire team is probably avoiding the rhand wagon. It makes sense concidering at that point the ETR wagon was dying. Maybe they are still on the ETR wagon and looking for an easy way to jump wagons? It would be too obvious to just.. jump.
So we should look into Tubba, Kami, Mind, Vaimes in no particular order.
If VAIMES is scum, that could mean GJ is scum with him and his callout is a distancing tactic. Although i see very little effort into the vaimes push.
Vaimes/gj is possible.
So if Vaimes/gj then i doubt the rest of the scum are on those two wagons alone.
Tubba is a good bet but i am still iffy.
I would put some money on Tau actually. I remember getting scum vibes from him earlier in the game, but i honestly can't remember why. I should go back and look
So Vaimes, Gj, Tau/tubba and LnGrr.
I am posting because no one ******* else is. Feel free to fill in the vacuum.
Also, you set up let's be honest, THREE hot take wolf reads, and you settle on LnGrrr? How disappointing.
Like, I am not explaining much because there is nothing much to explain. Kami/LnGrr are 0 hunt reads. They aren't trying to solve the game. Kami's last pop in talked about finally being convinced that KJ/Grape are likely not wolves. KJ and Grape.
LnGrrr, pops in to defend himself, ask some question I can't even remember, and then pops out. I couldn't even tell you who his wolf team is without looking at his posts.
Vezok is more of a live read. I'll be honest, I reread him and don't hate it as much as I thought. He is definitely move solvey than the other two reads, and if he came out and said "I forgot Grape was the peek", I probably would town read him. The double down struck me as wolfy, not wanting to look wrong/weak.
@Those voting Vezok: Let's move toa much more likely wolf that I can't think anyone is town reading.
You said you read the next few posts. If you were telling the truth, that question would have been answered. Because I am in a mask that has slightly more patience than an Iso:
Quote from GJ »
Was about 40% serious, 60% sarcastic. I don't think he has been wolfy wolf wolf, but I didn't particulary like that he wanted to move Tau as townier but just couldn't. Tone wise, it didn't come off as sincere.
and
No, what part of buddy did you get that from? It doesn't strike me as something a townie would do. Unless he thinks disappearing is AI, why does that matter?
I thought him wanting to move people, but verbally hesitating came off fakish. That was my impression of the post. I have since changed my mind.
... Have you read yesterDay? He is my most confident read.
What makes you doubt he is scum?
What makes you think I doubt he is scum? Maybe you just put out three reads to look edgy, but don't actually do anything with em and I am noting that. Especially when people seem to be super self conscious about their t/w not being super consensusy.
No i read the rest. The change over was what caught my attention. From vaimes is scum to not so much.. yet he is still near the bottom of your list.
I was trying to see if i could get different info that what you put. either way, you push vaimes as a wolf with no vote and you get on me about my grr vote and go after kami instead after admitting grr is scummy.
Like, you are avoiding your scumreads. Like 'Grr is scummy but i am gonna go after kami." feels like you are being super cautious. And that type of caution is something i only see in scumplay.
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... Have you read yesterDay? He is my most confident read.
What makes you doubt he is scum?
What makes you think I doubt he is scum? Maybe you just put out three reads to look edgy, but don't actually do anything with em and I am noting that. Especially when people seem to be super self conscious about their t/w not being super consensusy.
I thought you meant grr wasn't scummy enough to warrent a vote. I am not being cautious at all this game. I am tired of being fency and uncertain, ESPECIALLY after rolling scum for the past many games.I got an itch to lynch scum i am not holding back.
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I don't know how you can say I am avoiding my scum reads when I just rotated between two of those. And I would vote for LnGrrr at this point as well. That's a ******* awful misrep.
Anyone not wolf reading Kami right now is like you, where he is in the null pile. That tends to be more of a wolf strat, as it can be easier to show evolving reads.
... Have you read yesterDay? He is my most confident read.
What makes you doubt he is scum?
What makes you think I doubt he is scum? Maybe you just put out three reads to look edgy, but don't actually do anything with em and I am noting that. Especially when people seem to be super self conscious about their t/w not being super consensusy.
I thought you meant grr wasn't scummy enough to warrent a vote. I am not being cautious at all this game. I am tired of being fency and uncertain, ESPECIALLY after rolling scum for the past many games.I got an itch to lynch scum i am not holding back.
Has anything I posted today looked like caution? Reevaluating, sure. There are 2ish people I want to be wagoned right now, and about 3-4 more I probably wouldn't actively try to stop.
I am feeling really stir crazy. And If I have to 1 on 1 every single person in this game to get this one rolling, I will.
I don't know how you can say I am avoiding my scum reads when I just rotated between two of those. And I would vote for LnGrrr at this point as well. That's a ******* awful misrep.
Anyone not wolf reading Kami right now is like you, where he is in the null pile. That tends to be more of a wolf strat, as it can be easier to show evolving reads.
It's the way you DIDN'T vote for grr tho. You scoffed at my grr vote.
And no, i am not scumreading Kami due to lack of interaction/ i haven't even iso'd him yet.
and concidering i am scumreading you, i'm not feelin very obligated to do so until i get a flip. At this point, scum wouldn't be trying to bus their buddies, there is no reason for it. So i am thinking you and Grr are buddies. And i wanna get your flip to make that point.
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I don't know how you can say I am avoiding my scum reads when I just rotated between two of those. And I would vote for LnGrrr at this point as well. That's a ******* awful misrep.
Anyone not wolf reading Kami right now is like you, where he is in the null pile. That tends to be more of a wolf strat, as it can be easier to show evolving reads.
It's the way you DIDN'T vote for grr tho. You scoffed at my grr vote.
And no, i am not scumreading Kami due to lack of interaction/ i haven't even iso'd him yet.
and concidering i am scumreading you, i'm not feelin very obligated to do so until i get a flip. At this point, scum wouldn't be trying to bus their buddies, there is no reason for it. So i am thinking you and Grr are buddies. And i wanna get your flip to make that point.
I scoffed at your vote because you actually have a strange wolf team. I don't think anyone has Vaimes in their wolf pile, and you are just going into LnGrrr. If you can't see why I have a problem with that, I don't know what to tell you.
"My ScUm ReAdS aRe ToM, Kj, GrApE, aNd KaMi Unvote, Vote Kami
I don't know how you can say I am avoiding my scum reads when I just rotated between two of those. And I would vote for LnGrrr at this point as well. That's a ******* awful misrep.
Anyone not wolf reading Kami right now is like you, where he is in the null pile. That tends to be more of a wolf strat, as it can be easier to show evolving reads.
It's the way you DIDN'T vote for grr tho. You scoffed at my grr vote.
And no, i am not scumreading Kami due to lack of interaction/ i haven't even iso'd him yet.
and concidering i am scumreading you, i'm not feelin very obligated to do so until i get a flip. At this point, scum wouldn't be trying to bus their buddies, there is no reason for it. So i am thinking you and Grr are buddies. And i wanna get your flip to make that point.
You do understand the mechanically, if I only have 1 vote and 3 wolf reads, I can only pick one, right?
I don't know how you can say I am avoiding my scum reads when I just rotated between two of those. And I would vote for LnGrrr at this point as well. That's a ******* awful misrep.
Anyone not wolf reading Kami right now is like you, where he is in the null pile. That tends to be more of a wolf strat, as it can be easier to show evolving reads.
It's the way you DIDN'T vote for grr tho. You scoffed at my grr vote.
And no, i am not scumreading Kami due to lack of interaction/ i haven't even iso'd him yet.
and concidering i am scumreading you, i'm not feelin very obligated to do so until i get a flip. At this point, scum wouldn't be trying to bus their buddies, there is no reason for it. So i am thinking you and Grr are buddies. And i wanna get your flip to make that point.
You do understand the mechanically, if I only have 1 vote and 3 wolf reads, I can only pick one, right?
Yeah, but JOHHHNNNNNYYY! You won't lynch your buddy with me and it hurts my feelings :[
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and concidering i am scumreading you, i'm not feelin very obligated to do so until i get a flip. At this point, scum wouldn't be trying to bus their buddies, there is no reason for it. So i am thinking you and Grr are buddies. And i wanna get your flip to make that point.
I don't know how you can say I am avoiding my scum reads when I just rotated between two of those. And I would vote for LnGrrr at this point as well. That's a ******* awful misrep.
Anyone not wolf reading Kami right now is like you, where he is in the null pile. That tends to be more of a wolf strat, as it can be easier to show evolving reads.
It's the way you DIDN'T vote for grr tho. You scoffed at my grr vote.
And no, i am not scumreading Kami due to lack of interaction/ i haven't even iso'd him yet.
and concidering i am scumreading you, i'm not feelin very obligated to do so until i get a flip. At this point, scum wouldn't be trying to bus their buddies, there is no reason for it. So i am thinking you and Grr are buddies. And i wanna get your flip to make that point.
You do understand the mechanically, if I only have 1 vote and 3 wolf reads, I can only pick one, right?
Yeah, but JOHHHNNNNNYYY! You won't lynch your buddy with me and it hurts my feelings :[
If you are actually town this game, read Kami and get back to me.
I iso'd kami. I just.. I don't see where the scumread is coming from. Granted, i couldn't even scumread kami in the one game he was scum that i was in.
So, now i am just.. confused.
@Kami Why are people scumreading you?
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Day 1 Reread complete. Notes:
[spoiler]Tau - high effort entry.
Tom is basically unreadable but I’m going to try
Why does Tom make #100? Does scum!tom have a reason to say this?
Rodemy’s initial aggro seems in character, but #130 seems off. Too tentative?
Grape #199 - intentionally making a fake vote to get reactions? Interesting play, I could see it happening. Not having any solid scum conclusions from it is problematic - just two strong town reads and a bunch of waffles.
KJ #238: “wondering why people are townreading me because grape says I'm town but everyone thinks Grape is scum” - odd when it looks like people really aren’t commonly reading Grape as scum. Thought: “wondering why people are townreading me” is a “fishing for compliments” kind of post.
Grape #216: “I’m not dying today.” #274: “I guess I'm probably the defacto death today”
Vaimes #314: notices what I just saw with grape
Tau #359 is convincing, but why didn’t I notice these things? Is LnGrr just under my radar or are these being inflated by convincing rhetoric?
Reading through the gambit phase now.
Vaimes is almost entirely sheeping rather than providing original content. Slightly scummy by itself, also feels out of place compared to Vaimes I’ve played with before.
Tom #455 thinks EtR should flip - see if this changes
#457 is more town Rodemy
Tubba #468 also thinks EtR always needs to flip - see if this changes
Tau #470 gives me pause but don’t see scum motive either.
Riku exists?? #500
Vaimes - KJ e.g. #513: Always dislike when a player focuses too much on defense.
LnGrr out sick is a good reason for low posting, but we’ll see what other content comes up.
D_V 535-537 reads like an honest flow of thought.
KJ timing on #568 (grape align reveal) supports it being real. Imagine scum!KJ. Why link at this stage? Why draw attention from the Tau/EtR (main conversation at the time)? Grape is under no significant threat, so there’s no saving a scumbuddy there. KJ is also under no significant threat. So scum/scum makes no sense. Scum/town? Could KJ be doing this here just to get towncred later (or drag down Grape)? It’s conceivable but a weird play, and it limits KJ’s options in future, so an odd choice D1. Further it seems like KJ has breadcrumbed this earlier. No, I think this is real.
Tom #579, from anyone else, feels like scum being frustrated that they can’t justify a vote. But this is tom, so all signals are weaker.
I’m now around 590 and tom has abandoned his earlier stance of “etr must flip”. Not really a solid explanation of the change - he’s just at “this makes no sense from etr”, but that doesn’t seem like the same thing as explaining how the reasoning changed, and addresses a different question (what might etr be thinking vs. what do we need to resolve game state).
#594: tom uncritically accepts that LW is a PR?
Circa 615ish Mindreaver also thinks EtR needs solving, note for later
#689: This is a weird thing to be what Tubba comes in and posts about. (basically barn LW’s #695)
#744: Vaimes sheeping again, this time on me.
Tubba’s #750 is weird, emphasis mine: “I don’t know what to say, you will regret the shot regardless of your alignment. Hell, you’ll probably regret it regardless of mine.” Why does town ever make that statement?
I don’t see how the list GJ quotes in #785 is consensus.
Mind vs. DV is too hostile to give any info.
LnGrrr comes in with low-content posts. A T/S list with no justification (except on me).
Tubba is being consistent in position on Tau/EtR: needs to be solved D1.
Vaimes 957-958 doesn’t say anything
DV feels town. He could easily have rejected my “EV arguments” in the same way that he rejects lots of stuff with hostility, but he didn’t. Lots of ways to stay in character and keep throwing shade, which he passes up.
LnGrrr #974: “early push on your slot felt like it had scum on there” - why? “If you are scum, you don't mind tying yourself to pretty much everyone in the game, which seems unlikely” - tying yourself to everyone means tying yourself to no-one, so how is this indicative?
Dislike tubba’s #988. Gut here, nothing I can point to more specifically.
LnGrrr gives reads now in #989. Some of these mirror my opinions, e.g. Vaimes sheeping, but those could just be obvious things.
GF #997: note to self, go back and review this
...oh good, GF conveniently reviews it in more detail
GJ circa 1020: several posts that are either hard misreps or GJ not reading/paying attention to claims. Talking about things like Grape not seeming to know KJ’s alignment - but Grape/KJ never claimed to be mutually cleared, rather KJ claimed a unilateral knowledge.
GJ 1055: was there anything about Rhand before this? TODO:Go back and check
Vaimes #1077 is another follow-the-wagon vote
LnGrr/rod slap-fight is uncertain, but in character for Rod so slightly leans worse for grr here
Bookmark KJ’s #1125 for if/when I look at individuals
OK we’re in another slapfight, skimming
KJ’s #1040: interesting, hope this has an answer. TODO:Go back and check
OK it’s answered in #1258. Odd statement: “I feel like the outing of grape with neither of you under pressure felt suspect” - I think exactly the opposite of this.
Really want to know what tom is seeing that gives such a strong GJ read
More townie posts from KJ.
Wish vezok’s #1299 had more reasoning, hard to evaluate.
Dislike GJ’s #1348. It’s spending a lot of effort with a “coaching” tone to, ultimately, get GF’s vote off himself.
I feel like I’m getting skimmy here. Might be getting tired of it, but also there’s a lot of back-and-forth that doesn’t seem to have useful analysis content.
Here’s the end of the Day. Here’s the big angry fight. Definitely nothing useful here.[/quote]
Summary opinions based on what I have so far:
Town: KJ, Grape, DV
Scrutiny: Tubba, Tom
Scum: LnGrrr, Vaimes, GJ
My next effort will be D2 and getting up to "realtime", which should be a lot faster.
I know what the reason is (timing in the day) but GJ calling Rod out for not pursuing vanity wagons after his reaction to the mid to end of day yesterday is jarring. I know it makes sense but it feels wrong.
Speaking of feeling wrong the Vez nonsense from earlier. It's definitely not really scum indicative to not list me as a town read. It is definitely a weird more than scummy thing. The defensiveness around it is also more weird than scummy. What I didn't like and still don't like is the DV meta read. It feels so fake to me. That said the number of people who jumped on the "you didn't list grape, that's scummy/weird" train feels like an opportunistic thing.
Me and DV mindmelding is special
And that was vezok calling me solvey in general, johnny saying only day 2 after farting around day 1, and anak saying only day 1 and ive been worse today iirc
I did but died almost instantly.
And I don't think it is. The point of the meme is that mr. anime dude is completely and obviously wrong about what he's seeing. The original is calling a butterfly a pigeon iirc.
Tom: I'll look to see who called you solvey later. Consequently, Oracle question. What's your post number?
I just want him talking period. If he's talking he'll say something relevant eventually. Also meme clarity is very important to me.
I probably could have done that better.
I think it's time for another worldview post.
Id look for the most unambiguous cop shot. Seems like thats the highroller opener, thiugh hed not be my first choice to check rn.
Id want to check kami. Maybe etr/vez. So if any of them posted something that proves alignment i guess
EtR
tomsloger
Anaklusmos
M1ndreaverGentleman Johnny
AugustLnGrrrR
vezokpiraka
RumanshiI'm town, KJ knew my flavor and reads townie, Vaimes reads very townie, DV is everyone's top town read but mine so he can be town too, when Rod was around he pinged and bounced around exactly the way I'd expect town!Rod to. This read is a bit weaker and his absence is awkward but hopefully he picks back up where he left off.
Highroller hasn't done a ton to read yet but I don't believe that Tau would have done this whole neighbor chat faking scum thing as scum. He's way too competent and skilled to go all in on a gimmick like this. Just doesn't need it. Tubba has been pop in central but I think they've been townie pop-ins. The main qualifier here is that Tubba can flip the switch, get active and bleed town (Friends and Enemies is the clearest example but it's happened elsewhere), if this doesn't happen at any point then view him with more skepticism.
Grape
KJ, Vaimes, DV, Rodemy
Highroller, Tubba
I have the other 7 in a mushy pile of barely any seperation. I have them all as being vaguely scummy to similar degrees. I'd condemn any of KA, GJ, LnGrrrR, and Vez and a heartbeat, and I'm not sure I'd need to consider much longer for tom or EtR. Anak I'd have to ponder so I guess that makes him the towniest by default.
I think it's time to ISO Vez, KA, and LnG. GJ opinions are much fresher in my mind.
Thats the only iso ive read so far and not even posted about
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I beg you, nay plead you to show me the townieness his question about my three wolf reads I had the page before his pop in or his defending of his meme that was so wrong in its execution, it boards absurdity. Even if I pretend that WolfTubba can't actually appear townie (which is what you imply when you say something like he can just flip a switch and get active) how many days do you give him to do that? You'll be staring at day 4 and might have half the game fighting to be higher than the mod at the rate this is going.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Also would the mod highlight the lies and truths or just that the whole post has to be true or else it's false? Also I assume it matters if the person knows what he is talking about.
Like town saying: X is scum (but he is actually scum) won't show up in the oracle shot, but scum saying X is town and him being scum shows up as a lie.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
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I don't think Tubba comes in and drops memes like that as scum. I realize this is a stupid sounding read but I just don't. As for how long I give him until he bleeds town, in the example I referenced it took till there was only one townie spare for him to show townie. Basically if something he has staked his claim in is the center of attention and he's still in the shadows is what it would take for me to reevaluate.
As for Vaimes I saw it in his exchange with GJ.
Onto less spherical concerns...
I strongly agree with Grapes position on HR/Tau. The gambit is nonsensical from scumTau. His scum game IMO, is quite good and the gambit would be unnecessary noise and attention. If the “neighbours” have one scum, I’d be fairly surprised it was Tau. The only slim possibility I could see it occurring would be if they felt pressure to save a buddy. It was the middle of D1, nothing was happening to justify that. The absence following is disconcerting, but at the same time why not try to press the confusion into a mislynch.
I wouldn’t say Vaimes is super towny. I’d go townish. I’ve definitely seen townier Vaimes. Still I’ve seen enough good things to move him up from null.
This is town Grape, I’d bet 1000 gil on that. I was hesitant about KJ’s reliability regarding the green check and some of Grape’s positions earlier looked a little weird, but this is good old townGrape.
I really want D_V to be town. I’ve read them wrong every game so far because of clashing over playstyle. I want to see some more from them before I go stronger than a town lean.
Blah blah consensus town leans blah blah
The squishy middle is the interesting part. How do you bring something up without tipping the party in question off about it?
Still want to flip EtR, still thinks there’s a reasonable chance they’re scum, Rhand and Whisper’s flips don’t change anything for me there, if anything it makes me more curious.
Whisper probably died defending one of KJ or GF. (KJ is 85% lock town for me based on my Grape read.) Unless in the 15% world KJ is scum and wifom, but I feel despite the soft outing of a PR, it’d be more beneficial to nuke a green check over a random, possible, PR.
Scumslotting Vez over their placement (or lack thereof) of Hrape is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, and I’ve heard everything I’ve ever posted. Anyone pushing that is gonna be getting some side eye.
The common usage of that meme format is as Grape described, but layers and nuance are getting big in the meme game.
I’m going to work now.
via Imgflip Meme Generator
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Just get out here and give some reads.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Rodemy was packing for vacation. He saw D_V's case on rhand and actually liked it. I iso'd rhand and i could follow what D-V was putting down.
It was a lazy vote and i am a little regretful. I still wanna lynch LnGrr tbh. vote LnGrrr
Where did you get that from the quoted post?
Seeing the next few pages, i am not a huge fan of GJ. It feels.. bland. He doesn't explain much and it feels like he is just.. posting to post.
Tom asks a very good question here.
If GJ is scum.. it looks like his entire team is probably avoiding the rhand wagon. It makes sense concidering at that point the ETR wagon was dying. Maybe they are still on the ETR wagon and looking for an easy way to jump wagons? It would be too obvious to just.. jump.
So we should look into Tubba, Kami, Mind, Vaimes in no particular order.
If VAIMES is scum, that could mean GJ is scum with him and his callout is a distancing tactic. Although i see very little effort into the vaimes push.
Vaimes/gj is possible.
So if Vaimes/gj then i doubt the rest of the scum are on those two wagons alone.
Tubba is a good bet but i am still iffy.
I would put some money on Tau actually. I remember getting scum vibes from him earlier in the game, but i honestly can't remember why. I should go back and look
So Vaimes, Gj, Tau/tubba and LnGrr.
KJ
Grape
Vaimes
tom
DV
Null Line
Highroller
Anak
Rodemy
EtR
Tubba
LnGrrr
Kami
Vezok
Null line increases as people's posting ******* decreases.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I am posting because no one ******* else is. Feel free to fill in the vacuum.
Also, you set up let's be honest, THREE hot take wolf reads, and you settle on LnGrrr? How disappointing.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
What makes you doubt he is scum?
LnGrrr, pops in to defend himself, ask some question I can't even remember, and then pops out. I couldn't even tell you who his wolf team is without looking at his posts.
Vezok is more of a live read. I'll be honest, I reread him and don't hate it as much as I thought. He is definitely move solvey than the other two reads, and if he came out and said "I forgot Grape was the peek", I probably would town read him. The double down struck me as wolfy, not wanting to look wrong/weak.
@Those voting Vezok: Let's move toa much more likely wolf that I can't think anyone is town reading.
Vote Kami
The GJ way path to no lynching:
vote Gentleman Johnny
You said you read the next few posts. If you were telling the truth, that question would have been answered. Because I am in a mask that has slightly more patience than an Iso:
and
I thought him wanting to move people, but verbally hesitating came off fakish. That was my impression of the post. I have since changed my mind.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Goodness, if I am going to be ********, I really need to work on my typing.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
What makes you think I doubt he is scum? Maybe you just put out three reads to look edgy, but don't actually do anything with em and I am noting that. Especially when people seem to be super self conscious about their t/w not being super consensusy.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I was trying to see if i could get different info that what you put. either way, you push vaimes as a wolf with no vote and you get on me about my grr vote and go after kami instead after admitting grr is scummy.
Like, you are avoiding your scumreads. Like 'Grr is scummy but i am gonna go after kami." feels like you are being super cautious. And that type of caution is something i only see in scumplay.
I thought you meant grr wasn't scummy enough to warrent a vote. I am not being cautious at all this game. I am tired of being fency and uncertain, ESPECIALLY after rolling scum for the past many games.I got an itch to lynch scum i am not holding back.
Anyone not wolf reading Kami right now is like you, where he is in the null pile. That tends to be more of a wolf strat, as it can be easier to show evolving reads.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Has anything I posted today looked like caution? Reevaluating, sure. There are 2ish people I want to be wagoned right now, and about 3-4 more I probably wouldn't actively try to stop.
I am feeling really stir crazy. And If I have to 1 on 1 every single person in this game to get this one rolling, I will.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
It's the way you DIDN'T vote for grr tho. You scoffed at my grr vote.
And no, i am not scumreading Kami due to lack of interaction/ i haven't even iso'd him yet.
and concidering i am scumreading you, i'm not feelin very obligated to do so until i get a flip. At this point, scum wouldn't be trying to bus their buddies, there is no reason for it. So i am thinking you and Grr are buddies. And i wanna get your flip to make that point.
I scoffed at your vote because you actually have a strange wolf team. I don't think anyone has Vaimes in their wolf pile, and you are just going into LnGrrr. If you can't see why I have a problem with that, I don't know what to tell you.
"My ScUm ReAdS aRe ToM, Kj, GrApE, aNd KaMi Unvote, Vote Kami
The GJ way path to no lynching:
You do understand the mechanically, if I only have 1 vote and 3 wolf reads, I can only pick one, right?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Yeah, but JOHHHNNNNNYYY! You won't lynch your buddy with me and it hurts my feelings :[
The GJ way path to no lynching:
If you are actually town this game, read Kami and get back to me.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
But.. not you.
So, now i am just.. confused.
@Kami Why are people scumreading you?
[spoiler]Tau - high effort entry.
Tom is basically unreadable but I’m going to try
Why does Tom make #100? Does scum!tom have a reason to say this?
Rodemy’s initial aggro seems in character, but #130 seems off. Too tentative?
Grape #199 - intentionally making a fake vote to get reactions? Interesting play, I could see it happening. Not having any solid scum conclusions from it is problematic - just two strong town reads and a bunch of waffles.
KJ #238: “wondering why people are townreading me because grape says I'm town but everyone thinks Grape is scum” - odd when it looks like people really aren’t commonly reading Grape as scum. Thought: “wondering why people are townreading me” is a “fishing for compliments” kind of post.
Grape #216: “I’m not dying today.” #274: “I guess I'm probably the defacto death today”
Vaimes #314: notices what I just saw with grape
Tau #359 is convincing, but why didn’t I notice these things? Is LnGrr just under my radar or are these being inflated by convincing rhetoric?
Reading through the gambit phase now.
Vaimes is almost entirely sheeping rather than providing original content. Slightly scummy by itself, also feels out of place compared to Vaimes I’ve played with before.
Tom #455 thinks EtR should flip - see if this changes
#457 is more town Rodemy
Tubba #468 also thinks EtR always needs to flip - see if this changes
Tau #470 gives me pause but don’t see scum motive either.
Riku exists?? #500
Vaimes - KJ e.g. #513: Always dislike when a player focuses too much on defense.
LnGrr out sick is a good reason for low posting, but we’ll see what other content comes up.
D_V 535-537 reads like an honest flow of thought.
KJ timing on #568 (grape align reveal) supports it being real. Imagine scum!KJ. Why link at this stage? Why draw attention from the Tau/EtR (main conversation at the time)? Grape is under no significant threat, so there’s no saving a scumbuddy there. KJ is also under no significant threat. So scum/scum makes no sense. Scum/town? Could KJ be doing this here just to get towncred later (or drag down Grape)? It’s conceivable but a weird play, and it limits KJ’s options in future, so an odd choice D1. Further it seems like KJ has breadcrumbed this earlier. No, I think this is real.
Tom #579, from anyone else, feels like scum being frustrated that they can’t justify a vote. But this is tom, so all signals are weaker.
I’m now around 590 and tom has abandoned his earlier stance of “etr must flip”. Not really a solid explanation of the change - he’s just at “this makes no sense from etr”, but that doesn’t seem like the same thing as explaining how the reasoning changed, and addresses a different question (what might etr be thinking vs. what do we need to resolve game state).
#594: tom uncritically accepts that LW is a PR?
Circa 615ish Mindreaver also thinks EtR needs solving, note for later
#689: This is a weird thing to be what Tubba comes in and posts about. (basically barn LW’s #695)
#744: Vaimes sheeping again, this time on me.
Tubba’s #750 is weird, emphasis mine: “I don’t know what to say, you will regret the shot regardless of your alignment. Hell, you’ll probably regret it regardless of mine.” Why does town ever make that statement?
I don’t see how the list GJ quotes in #785 is consensus.
Mind vs. DV is too hostile to give any info.
LnGrrr comes in with low-content posts. A T/S list with no justification (except on me).
Tubba is being consistent in position on Tau/EtR: needs to be solved D1.
Vaimes 957-958 doesn’t say anything
DV feels town. He could easily have rejected my “EV arguments” in the same way that he rejects lots of stuff with hostility, but he didn’t. Lots of ways to stay in character and keep throwing shade, which he passes up.
LnGrrr #974: “early push on your slot felt like it had scum on there” - why? “If you are scum, you don't mind tying yourself to pretty much everyone in the game, which seems unlikely” - tying yourself to everyone means tying yourself to no-one, so how is this indicative?
Dislike tubba’s #988. Gut here, nothing I can point to more specifically.
LnGrrr gives reads now in #989. Some of these mirror my opinions, e.g. Vaimes sheeping, but those could just be obvious things.
GF #997: note to self, go back and review this
...oh good, GF conveniently reviews it in more detail
GJ circa 1020: several posts that are either hard misreps or GJ not reading/paying attention to claims. Talking about things like Grape not seeming to know KJ’s alignment - but Grape/KJ never claimed to be mutually cleared, rather KJ claimed a unilateral knowledge.
GJ 1055: was there anything about Rhand before this? TODO:Go back and check
Vaimes #1077 is another follow-the-wagon vote
LnGrr/rod slap-fight is uncertain, but in character for Rod so slightly leans worse for grr here
Bookmark KJ’s #1125 for if/when I look at individuals
OK we’re in another slapfight, skimming
KJ’s #1040: interesting, hope this has an answer. TODO:Go back and check
OK it’s answered in #1258. Odd statement: “I feel like the outing of grape with neither of you under pressure felt suspect” - I think exactly the opposite of this.
Really want to know what tom is seeing that gives such a strong GJ read
More townie posts from KJ.
Wish vezok’s #1299 had more reasoning, hard to evaluate.
Dislike GJ’s #1348. It’s spending a lot of effort with a “coaching” tone to, ultimately, get GF’s vote off himself.
I feel like I’m getting skimmy here. Might be getting tired of it, but also there’s a lot of back-and-forth that doesn’t seem to have useful analysis content.
Here’s the end of the Day. Here’s the big angry fight. Definitely nothing useful here.[/quote]
Summary opinions based on what I have so far:
Town: KJ, Grape, DV
Scrutiny: Tubba, Tom
Scum: LnGrrr, Vaimes, GJ
My next effort will be D2 and getting up to "realtime", which should be a lot faster.
We need to work on our wolf theater better. Willing to practice if you are going to Gen con again @Vaimes
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Speaking of feeling wrong the Vez nonsense from earlier. It's definitely not really scum indicative to not list me as a town read. It is definitely a weird more than scummy thing. The defensiveness around it is also more weird than scummy. What I didn't like and still don't like is the DV meta read. It feels so fake to me. That said the number of people who jumped on the "you didn't list grape, that's scummy/weird" train feels like an opportunistic thing.
This really rubs me the wrong way.
Other than that, meh.
tom, are you deliberately avoiding townreading me or what?
Kami's ISO is almost completely devoid of mentions of Rod, aside from a strong-ish sounding townread on him from back when LW was getting wagoned.
Can't really search Rod's ISO because it looks like he calls him KA a lot and I'm not control F'ing ka.