@tubba
Grape said it well, its mostly me going back and forth between two different site metas, and my home site have relatively shorter day phases, with more rapid-fire posting, the direct opposite of this site
I still believe Grr, and Kami, have the highest chance of being scum as of right now, and nothing they have done has changed that, ya I am sorta waffling on Grape because he has an equal amount of very thoughtful posts, as well as sub-par posts imo
I skimmed grape's play in Ghostbusters, off the grid 3, and Dark and Stormy, and didn't see anything. He even used the word "feel" 7 times in the first 30 posts of this game versus 6 times in the first 30 posts of Ghostbusters. I'll probably do a deeper dive if grapefruit wagon is still strong near End of Day, but for now it seems like an inefficient use of time.
--- @Grapefruit Can you list some more of your town and scum games?
@Vaimes ahhh gotcha. The "I'm not getting lynched today" is my default trolling response as I know it gets people annoyed because it looks like a soft claim. The I'm de facto lynch was because I've got serious momentum early in the day and I know how MTGS works these days. The first major wagon ends up being the final one like 2/3 of the time these days.
On KJ I learned a lot about the way KJ thinks from that chat, but that isn't what gave me the confidence here. And would anyone of noticed that specific change? Probably not. But I think people would have pegged him for town if I hadn't brought it up sure.
Anyway I also stand corrected. I read your post, then read this post:
Ftr, if grape is town so is vaimes.
Nothing pointing to w/w, but scumvaimes doesnt feel the need to add something to rhands reasoning on towngrape
and just had the idea that you had nodded "yes I agree with Rhand, but also this KJ and lack of internal consistency stuff." I was wrong.
@Tau last 4 town are Ghostbusters, Rock Paper Scissors, Playstation mafia, and Resistance (if resistance doesn't suit you then Friends and Enemies is next and it's the best of the bunch imo). There is also a tiny hunt game on DLP in there somewhere but that would take effort to find.
Time to spoil what I found out about Grape’s meta. It dawned on me after feeling a difference between his tone here and in Ghostbusters, and I checked Pirates (where he was scum) to confirm it.
I am unreasonably excited by the idea that Grape might be caught by verbiage. Like I know logically it's probably weak sauce but I have been trying to make wording tells work for years. y e a r s
@Grape: I searched through a few pages of your posts in those games and did a count of terms like "I think" vs. "I guess", etc. The numbers I was getting were not showing a significant difference. FWIW I'm not defending you (that is, I'm not saying "oh grape must be town"), I just don't see the verb thing working.
So i still dont think wolfvaimes and towngrape is a thing, but otherwise dont really like vaimes so far. Not really buying me and wisp as his main townreads
As for the grape meta... i looked and agreed with rhand.
Tau and kami claim to have looked and disagree. Kami kind of seems like hes making it up? But they couldnt both be...
Right?
As for grape himself, at least hes worried about the right stuff with wanting to make sure on kj and the world where hes wrong being kj partners with me. These are vaguely townie things.
Still kinda want to flip him to be able to read reactions to the whole thing. Notably vaimes, kami, tau. Probably me. Last if he wasnt just a PR... Rhand looks town from it either way tbh.
Pretty actively disagree with kjs tubba meta. Hes a deliberate sorta dude. I believe kj remembers that from low fantasy, but i think its in his towngames too.
Dont like kjs read of tubba, but him making it from his current position in thread i think if tubba is town scum usually joins him so slight scumlean
Which is lol
Grape, kami, vaimes
Pile of bad vibes and bad meta.
LnGrrrR ISO with my commentary.
Red Highlighting: LnGrrrR refuses to analyze the situation, sometimes going to absurd lengths to declare something nullish. Also highlighted his habit of adding adverbs which are synonyms of "weakly".
Blue Highlighting: Statements irrelevant to the gamestate. A small number of statements would not be scummy, but LnGrrR uses them excessively
Orange Highlighting: Questions from LnGrrrR to other playerswhich he never brings up or references ever again.
vote Lngr gor moving to a German city I don’t guide in
Ha! You have already used that reason! Scum confirmed!
@Vaimes, you need maybe a day to see Venice. Tops. Unless you are one of those horrible, "You realllllly need to spend at least 3 weeks in nowheresville to truly capture the hearty and spirit of the city!" Look pal, I have a job I have to go to. I know Americans have a bad stereotype of hitting the checklist items, but they are checklist items for a reason, dagnabbit.
@Kami, did you vote LW just because of post #57, or because of more than that?((He did follow up on this question to re-iterate it in #192, after forgetting to re-iterate it at the prefect opportunity in #170))
@KJ, Tubba has been quiet and on the margins, which is slightly worrying. Then again, so have I so... *shrug*. Nullish. ((The "Then again, so have I so" part is clearly a member of Mafia being made he can't scumread a townie without being hypocritical. If a townies notices they are doing a scumtell, they generally FIX THEIR BEHAVIOR, not stop using it. Notice he also implies that the "quiet and on the margins" scumtell is invalidated for THIS GAME ONLY, which is completely gross and indicates LnGrrrR is solely avoiding the scumtell to help keep himself alive.))
I don't get the push on LW, at all. ((LnGrrR makes no attempt to fix the fact he "don't get the push on LW". He does not ask anybody to re-explain why they voted LW or describe specific contradictions.)) Tau votes him for not RVSing, which is... whatever. Riku votes him which I'm guessing is RVS. Rodemy then votes him for not answering a question and continues to go after him aggressively. ((Note LnGrrR has not described if this Rodemy fact is a scumtell or towntell!)) GF jumps in with a naked vote, asking for more people to vote him.((Ditto for this GF fact!)) I read the thread, and I see four votes on him and it makes my head hurt.(("It makes my head hurt" is not a conclusion. It's a reason to ask for help or approach the problem from a different angle))
@Tom, you feel towny enough. I have you in my townbloc along with LW. Not saying you're easy to read, but I think I can read you... decently?
@Rhand, what makes you say that? Also, since you mentioned being drunk, what's a good Dutch drink to try? I ran out of limoncello this weekend and need to get something new.
@all, blah. Fine. But don't expect some long post. I have a freaking Excel course to start working on and I hate Excel.
Not RVSing is not scummy, in my opinion. Tau jumping on him for that is weird, but not enough to force him out of null, just something to keep my eye on. Riku voted him RVS, so no, not scummy. (Also, I think I am bad at reading Riku.) You are... leaning scum. I don't get the aggression. ((The next two sentances are an attempt to launder unrelated Rodemy reads as related to lw wagon, trying to retroactively justify #170 as having meaningful analysis))Also, your "putting words in someone's mouth" comment to Tom felt off, as to me it's pretty clear Tom was jokingly stating that because he hadn't put out an RVS vote, then he isn't part of LW's "I hate these RVS posts" comment, therefore making him town. I don't get why you would jump on that. Grape's jump seems opportunistic as heck and I want to hear Kami's answer to my question.((Notice that LnGrrrR completely forgot about Kami in #170, despite asking him question on Kami's Lastwhisper vote in #127, until re-doing his analysis!))
@LW, you two are injecting a lot into the thread. I tend to townside people talking. If you make some weird pushes then I will worry about it later, but I'm fine right now just looking at the relative output and saying, "Sure, town."
PS: LnGrrrR is still sitting on his Rhand RVS vote.
Like...the grapefruit case is a wording tell which has been disputed by as many people supported it, one awkward emotion transition from #216-#274, and grapefruit writing about mixed feeling on tomsloger without elaborating on his red flags. Those are all weak points.*
Meanwhile LnGrrrR here is borderline openwolfing and I don't know how players are missing it.
Vote LnGrrrR
(again)
---
*Also I think most of the voters on grapefruit have ignored his towntells, such how he almost-singlehandly made the read that marked Killjoy 90% Town. I also like his general pattern of gamestate analysis.
So i still dont think wolfvaimes and towngrape is a thing, but otherwise dont really like vaimes so far. Not really buying me and wisp as his main townreads
Sometimes I feel like you want me to scumread you.
I could maybe see you arguing why I shouldn't/wouldn't townread you, but LW seems to be a one-man "what you see is what you get" parade.
Up to page 2, I'm not super sure why everyone is piling up on LastWhisper so far. I'm not seeing anything crazy.
Nevermind, the whole entry post thing is weird. Not scummy per se, but weird.
Think ill vote kami
And not explain at all but heavily imply i have a really good reason that will inevitably disappoint everyone when i finally reveal it
You do realize RVS is over right? Why are you randomly voting for kami?
Now, Riku and Rodemy look like town to me, while tom and wisp look like scum to me. Vote: tomsloger.
Says the wisp post really sounds like scum, also points out Toms post as disliked. He's chosen someone with no heat and also the leading (as of the read) wagon. ZD has earned 1 scum point.
[quote from="Rhand »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/805970-death-in-the-family-day-1-just-the-beginning?comment=142"]
@Mafia
I'm a very good PR, please kill me, thanks
@killjoy
Rhand has had a very townie entrance and has continued to stay townie so far at least, where does your scum lean come from? Also I'm at work so if I misread your post, I'm sorry
What's the difference between Rhand's entrance and Lngrr's in your mind?
Why are people disliking Grape? Help me.
Question Time (starting page 5)
@TAU - what are your thoughts on Tubba and KA
@Rhand - what are your thoughts on Riku and Vaimes
@Wisp - Top Town Read?
@Tom - Top Town Read?
@grape: Just the terms. General confidence is too subjective for that.
@Tubba: wait, how are you seeing LW as not taking stances?
Mostly my eyes. They’re taking stances, but light ones. It just feels like they want to be able to shift focus. That seems less scumhunting and more opportunistic.
@Tau
If you’re snowing me like you did in Friends & Enemies I’m going to owe you a beer.
Pretty much melding on your 359, and with Lunger’s lingering I’m going in on it. Vote LngGrr
Not a fan of etr calling out wisp reacting to me as NAGL and ignoring my garnering the reaction completely.
Was thinking he was just doing the classic technique of ignoring me til he cant anymore, but he asks me a question that he could answer just by reading my posts...
Pending more catchup but im missing some depth from him overall
Up to page 2, I'm not super sure why everyone is piling up on LastWhisper so far. I'm not seeing anything crazy.
Nevermind, the whole entry post thing is weird. Not scummy per se, but weird.
this is actually such a bad post... and honestly if your gunna join in late, its probably better to read backwards?
im putting you in my scum pile just because I think its so scummy to just discredit everyones read on my entrance before you even know why they are voting me
Anyway LnGrrrR is someone I'm interested in pressing but I still like my vote where it is.
@Tau I want to like your case as it's seeing a lot of what I was seeing but I'm just so paranoid about you that you saying those very valid reasons to push LnG makes me buy them less. Or more accurately preemptively scare myself out of it.
Anyway LnGrrrR is someone I'm interested in pressing but I still like my vote where it is.
@Tau I want to like your case as it's seeing a lot of what I was seeing but I'm just so paranoid about you that you saying those very valid reasons to push LnG makes me buy them less. Or more accurately preemptively scare myself out of it.
why does him giving them matter, evaluate grrr on an individualistic level, I'm not saying paranioa isn't allowed, but this kind of paranioa on day 1, just feels bad, it's feels like you are hedging but using paranioa as an excuse... Or am I wrong here?
Reads+votal:
LnGrr (5): Tau, Last, vaimes, tubba, tom
Grape (3): Rhand, M1nd, Rod
Kami (1): Grape
Kj (1): Ruma
Last (1): Kami
Rhand (1): LnGrr
tom (1): zdtsd
Tubba (1): Kj
Not voting: etr, *future replacement*
@Grape realistically you should be gold with the other pings. Maybe even uncolored if not for the mindreaver read, which i still have as pretty solidly not real
But i get a fair amount of info from your alignment regardless
Not this game of Mafia, although I did just win this game of Mafia, but the entire concept of informed minority games. I didn't even know that was possible.
But first I have to tell you a story:
----
Long ago, in the long forgotten time of 2013, there was a Mafia game called Witchhunt 7 on a now-gone site called Fantasy Strike. Witchhunt 7 had a really really complicated setup, but right now only two facts are important: There were two scumteams in it, and there were some roles which any alignment could have. For example, The Investigator (gimped Role Cop) and The Innkeeper (Is neighbors with the Investigator and the Inquisitor, another gimped Role Cop) could be either Town or Mafia or Other Mafia.
Prime Intellect, gambit-master extraordinaire, rolls Town Investigator, and immediately hashes a plan. In one of his first posts in the Investigator/Innkeeper chat:
"
This is a bit of a gamble but here goes...
Searay I'm an elder witch [Mafia 1] I know you're either a junior [Mafia 2] or a spy. I'm going to bet that you're a junior though.
Let's use this to coordinate.
"
Now, in this case, the Innkeeper was not a member of the Mafia and was not a spy, and the whole thing turned out poorly for town. The Innkeeper ended up telling everything to the Inquisitor, who it turns out actually was a member of Mafia 1. Still, after reading that game I always remembered the shenanigans Townies could do in alignment unconfirmed chats.
----
Then I got my role PM this game: Town Neighbor (hardclaim that by the way). I immediately realize the potential. Of course, there's no indications of there's multiple scum teams in the setup, so I need to lie like a tombstone in order to get this gambit off the ground.
I claim Mafia Traitor aka Lone Wolf aka this role Neighbor. I try to think of a good excuse for knowing that my Neighbor partner is Main Fraction scum, but I can't make it work so I just settle for flatly declaring that my Neighbor is main fraction scum. Then I ask my neighbor who "our" scumbuddies are.
However, my Neighbor, EtR is afk. So afk, that the 24 hour period our chat is open D1 is closing. No worries, I decide to come up with a way EtR can signal me in-thread. This just might work better - after all, if he can't consult his scumbuddies, he's more likely to fall for it!
Thus, my signalling method, with I mention in Neighbor chat: If EtR makes a post which asks at least four players questions, one of which is me, I will assume the rest of the players are "our" scumbuddies.
Question Time (starting page 5)
@TAU - what are your thoughts on Tubba and KA
@Rhand - what are your thoughts on Riku and Vaimes
@Wisp - Top Town Read?
@Tom - Top Town Read?
So:
The scumteam is EtR, Rhand, Lastwhisper, and tomsloger.
Vote: EtR
----
~Boring Other Stuff~
There are a couple other explanations for EtR's behavior, which range from wildly implausible to literal skyscrappers made out of tinfoil. I could enumerate them, but I'd rather let @EtR attempt an explanation.
Sorry Not Sorry to EtR for making him "That guy who Reaverb Tau tricked into outing his entire scumteam."
Well if that turns out to be true then I feel awesome that the entire scum team decided to try and dunk on me D1. Regardless this is hilarious and I love it.
Anyway since he's already on the back foot my question to EtR about the structure was because it's built like a stream of consciousness post and seems to be but it's just off timeline wise. His defense of me is in the wrong spot relative to the rest of the post and the Rhand part comes way too late. It doesn't work to have the thought "why are people disliking grape?" And then several thoughts later +1rhand for the verb usage theory. I wasn't disliked before that.
This feels like Tau discrediting all the top town read people to sow confusion.
Or it’s scum!EtR doing that, being unsure if Tau trueclaimed or not.
Anyhow, I’m town and am pretty sure tom and LW are as well.
I have to think about wether this makes tau/EtR a dichotomy or not.
Immediate thoughts are: ETR scum probably no matter what. I will wait for him to post, because I don't want to taint his answers with my own thoughts.
Unvote, Vote ETR
Also, is Tau is scum, Grape is too.
What ties Grape and Tau together for you?
Only in the situation where Tau is scum and making some crazy gambit, trying to get town!ETR killed. In that world, which is not something I believe in btw, I see it as a way of discrediting the arguments against Grape (Rhand brought the "tell" case against Grape, Tom defended it and tied me as Grape's scumbuddy, and Whisper was also vocal about it). I think that's enough coincidence to point to coordination between Grape and Tau.
But like I said, I don't believe that at the moment. It might be WIFOM, but I can't see scum!tau taking such a risk just to kill a town!etr on day 1. *MAYBE* he would if he thought he could discredit Tom/Rhand/Whisper enough to get suspicion off Grape. There is also a world where Tau and LnGrrR are scum together, and Tau is trying to stop that wagon, but the inclusion of Rhand doesn't make sense there. I'm also not sure LnGrrR's wagon is at the point where I'd make a gambit to stop it. I know I'm not Tau, but I just don't see it.
*PARAGRAPH REDACTED UNTIL ETR POSTS*
In any case, ETR and Tau can't both be telling the truth right now.
Tau's explanation from his side is accurate. I logged into the neighbor chat after it had closed. I didn't realize we had time at the beginning of the day to chat and I was away for the weekend. I read through what he posted about being a mafia defector and his request to name the scum team.
From my point of view this could have been a couple things. I haven't played with Tau before and no nothing of his experience so it could be true that he was a lone mafia that didn't know the team. He could also be town thinking I'm scum and trying to out me.
So what I felt the options were:
1. Out him immediately based on his claim in chat
2. Ignore it
3. Play along
I don't think I truly believed that he was mafia because we aren't alignment confirmed to each other so there would be no reason at all for him to give that information out freely, unless he was a brand new player. So I figured this wouldn't be the best course.
Ignoring it was possible but wouldn't be any fun.
So I chose play along to see where it went. It was also the more enjoyable of the three options. In my post I chose myself and two random people, one that was being mostly scum read and 1 that was more neutral based on the fact that there are probably 4 mafia in the game. Surprise surprise it was a gambit.
**** man, they u went about that was so poor, we almost always have to see you dead at some point... Also the way your post comes off doesn't give me many reasons to think you are town, did his claim, effect any of the reads you gave off outside of the 4 people you pinged?
@tau
You discredited all your reads because of an FPS, and I have no idea how to evaluate that at the moment
**** man, they u went about that was so poor, we almost always have to see you dead at some point... Also the way your post comes off doesn't give me many reasons to think you are town, did his claim, effect any of the reads you gave off outside of the 4 people you pinged?
@tau
You discredited all your reads because of an FPS, and I have no idea how to evaluate that at the moment
Ill make a more detailed post tonight after work
His claim didn't effect any of my reads. I didn't really buy it. But to be clear, whatever happens with me does not prove the alignment of Tau. He could still be scum through this. I don't know how often neighbors are T/S vs T/T though.
**** man, they u went about that was so poor, we almost always have to see you dead at some point... Also the way your post comes off doesn't give me many reasons to think you are town, did his claim, effect any of the reads you gave off outside of the 4 people you pinged?
@tau
You discredited all your reads because of an FPS, and I have no idea how to evaluate that at the moment
Ill make a more detailed post tonight after work
His claim didn't effect any of my reads. I didn't really buy it. But to be clear, whatever happens with me does not prove the alignment of Tau. He could still be scum through this. I don't know how often neighbors are T/S vs T/T though.
you don't need to tell me that, I'm fully capable of coming to my own conclusions, if he's just a neighborizer than he could easily be scum, I can easily see it coming from town, less than I see it coming from mafia, but the way he was so ok with just dropping all of his reads, makes me think they were all just fake, and it pings me
On an individual level, I still think your post, and grr's posts are still high in scum! equity, and many others, and it's still to early to start changing up my PoE because of interactions
@EtR Can you go into more detail? What were your plans for this Night phase? What were you going to do this Night phase had we lynched a member of Mafia who wasn't in {Rhand/tomsloger/Lastwhisper}? What would have done had I played along for a couple more days? Or saved one of your "scumbuddies" in a very scummy way? Did you think my claim was a scumtell, nulltell, or towntell?
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Grape said it well, its mostly me going back and forth between two different site metas, and my home site have relatively shorter day phases, with more rapid-fire posting, the direct opposite of this site
I still believe Grr, and Kami, have the highest chance of being scum as of right now, and nothing they have done has changed that, ya I am sorta waffling on Grape because he has an equal amount of very thoughtful posts, as well as sub-par posts imo
@Vaimes
you should just move back to kami anyways
---
@Grapefruit Can you list some more of your town and scum games?
@zdtsd @LnGrrR What are your top 2 townreads and top 2 scumreads?
On KJ I learned a lot about the way KJ thinks from that chat, but that isn't what gave me the confidence here. And would anyone of noticed that specific change? Probably not. But I think people would have pegged him for town if I hadn't brought it up sure.
Anyway I also stand corrected. I read your post, then read this post:
and just had the idea that you had nodded "yes I agree with Rhand, but also this KJ and lack of internal consistency stuff." I was wrong.
@Tau last 4 town are Ghostbusters, Rock Paper Scissors, Playstation mafia, and Resistance (if resistance doesn't suit you then Friends and Enemies is next and it's the best of the bunch imo). There is also a tiny hunt game on DLP in there somewhere but that would take effort to find.
Last 4 scum are banned mafia, Team Mafia Monster manual game, Token Power (as an early replacement), and Pirates.
@Tubba: wait, how are you seeing LW as not taking stances?
Hmmmmmm
Hmmmmm
Anyway what do you think that says about Rhand?
As for the grape meta... i looked and agreed with rhand.
Tau and kami claim to have looked and disagree. Kami kind of seems like hes making it up? But they couldnt both be...
Right?
As for grape himself, at least hes worried about the right stuff with wanting to make sure on kj and the world where hes wrong being kj partners with me. These are vaguely townie things.
Still kinda want to flip him to be able to read reactions to the whole thing. Notably vaimes, kami, tau. Probably me. Last if he wasnt just a PR... Rhand looks town from it either way tbh.
Pretty actively disagree with kjs tubba meta. Hes a deliberate sorta dude. I believe kj remembers that from low fantasy, but i think its in his towngames too.
Dont like kjs read of tubba, but him making it from his current position in thread i think if tubba is town scum usually joins him so slight scumlean
Which is lol
Grape, kami, vaimes
Pile of bad vibes and bad meta.
Lngrr/mind actually scummy
Gonna play another turbo
Red Highlighting: LnGrrrR refuses to analyze the situation, sometimes going to absurd lengths to declare something nullish. Also highlighted his habit of adding adverbs which are synonyms of "weakly".
Blue Highlighting: Statements irrelevant to the gamestate. A small number of statements would not be scummy, but LnGrrR uses them excessively
Orange Highlighting: Questions from LnGrrrR to other playerswhich he never brings up or references ever again.
Green Highlighting: My own comments
PS: LnGrrrR is still sitting on his Rhand RVS vote.
Like...the grapefruit case is a wording tell which has been disputed by as many people supported it, one awkward emotion transition from #216-#274, and grapefruit writing about mixed feeling on tomsloger without elaborating on his red flags. Those are all weak points.*
Meanwhile LnGrrrR here is borderline openwolfing and I don't know how players are missing it.
Vote LnGrrrR
(again)
---
*Also I think most of the voters on grapefruit have ignored his towntells, such how he almost-singlehandly made the read that marked Killjoy 90% Town. I also like his general pattern of gamestate analysis.
I could maybe see you arguing why I shouldn't/wouldn't townread you, but LW seems to be a one-man "what you see is what you get" parade.
Nevermind, the whole entry post thing is weird. Not scummy per se, but weird.
This post is strange to me:
Says the wisp post really sounds like scum, also points out Toms post as disliked. He's chosen someone with no heat and also the leading (as of the read) wagon. ZD has earned 1 scum point.
So, this is a bad look.
Town points. But why did you pick those four to talk to?
Why?
What's the difference between Rhand's entrance and Lngrr's in your mind?
Why are people disliking Grape? Help me.
Question Time (starting page 5)
@TAU - what are your thoughts on Tubba and KA
@Rhand - what are your thoughts on Riku and Vaimes
@Wisp - Top Town Read?
@Tom - Top Town Read?
Not a fan of this. He has posted literal nothing. There's no one better? Feels like a wasted vote.
Tau's #227 Vote count feels like scum trying to look busy.
Killjoy has had a ton of good posts. I like him for town a lot.
Rhand pointing out the verbs that Grape uses is interesting. Even if it leads to nothing I give Rhand 1 Town Point for it.
You're trying to pressure the wind. Stop it.
whatever
Unvote, vote LnGR
This I will sheep.
Mostly my eyes. They’re taking stances, but light ones. It just feels like they want to be able to shift focus. That seems less scumhunting and more opportunistic.
If you’re snowing me like you did in Friends & Enemies I’m going to owe you a beer.
Pretty much melding on your 359, and with Lunger’s lingering I’m going in on it.
Vote LngGrr
Ill come back though, staying on grape is more for info than for hitting scum and thats more a day 2 thing...
vote lngrr
@vig shoot grape pls
Was thinking he was just doing the classic technique of ignoring me til he cant anymore, but he asks me a question that he could answer just by reading my posts...
Pending more catchup but im missing some depth from him overall
Im pretty proud of that
this is actually such a bad post... and honestly if your gunna join in late, its probably better to read backwards?
im putting you in my scum pile just because I think its so scummy to just discredit everyones read on my entrance before you even know why they are voting me
Anyway LnGrrrR is someone I'm interested in pressing but I still like my vote where it is.
@Tau I want to like your case as it's seeing a lot of what I was seeing but I'm just so paranoid about you that you saying those very valid reasons to push LnG makes me buy them less. Or more accurately preemptively scare myself out of it.
Also you know there are better vig targets than myself in this game even with all the info.
@EtR I'm slightly confused by the structure of your post. It seems to be stream of consciousness as you read. Is that accurate?
LnGrr (5): Tau, Last, vaimes, tubba, tom
Grape (3): Rhand, M1nd, Rod
Kami (1): Grape
Kj (1): Ruma
Last (1): Kami
Rhand (1): LnGrr
tom (1): zdtsd
Tubba (1): Kj
Not voting: etr, *future replacement*
@Grape realistically you should be gold with the other pings. Maybe even uncolored if not for the mindreaver read, which i still have as pretty solidly not real
But i get a fair amount of info from your alignment regardless
Not this game of Mafia, although I did just win this game of Mafia, but the entire concept of informed minority games. I didn't even know that was possible.
But first I have to tell you a story:
----
Long ago, in the long forgotten time of 2013, there was a Mafia game called Witchhunt 7 on a now-gone site called Fantasy Strike. Witchhunt 7 had a really really complicated setup, but right now only two facts are important: There were two scumteams in it, and there were some roles which any alignment could have. For example, The Investigator (gimped Role Cop) and The Innkeeper (Is neighbors with the Investigator and the Inquisitor, another gimped Role Cop) could be either Town or Mafia or Other Mafia.
Prime Intellect, gambit-master extraordinaire, rolls Town Investigator, and immediately hashes a plan. In one of his first posts in the Investigator/Innkeeper chat:
"
This is a bit of a gamble but here goes...
Searay I'm an elder witch [Mafia 1] I know you're either a junior [Mafia 2] or a spy. I'm going to bet that you're a junior though.
Let's use this to coordinate.
"
Now, in this case, the Innkeeper was not a member of the Mafia and was not a spy, and the whole thing turned out poorly for town. The Innkeeper ended up telling everything to the Inquisitor, who it turns out actually was a member of Mafia 1. Still, after reading that game I always remembered the shenanigans Townies could do in alignment unconfirmed chats.
----
Then I got my role PM this game: Town Neighbor (hardclaim that by the way). I immediately realize the potential. Of course, there's no indications of there's multiple scum teams in the setup, so I need to lie like a tombstone in order to get this gambit off the ground.
I claim Mafia Traitor aka Lone Wolf aka this role Neighbor. I try to think of a good excuse for knowing that my Neighbor partner is Main Fraction scum, but I can't make it work so I just settle for flatly declaring that my Neighbor is main fraction scum. Then I ask my neighbor who "our" scumbuddies are.
However, my Neighbor, EtR is afk. So afk, that the 24 hour period our chat is open D1 is closing. No worries, I decide to come up with a way EtR can signal me in-thread. This just might work better - after all, if he can't consult his scumbuddies, he's more likely to fall for it!
Thus, my signalling method, with I mention in Neighbor chat: If EtR makes a post which asks at least four players questions, one of which is me, I will assume the rest of the players are "our" scumbuddies.
So:
The scumteam is EtR, Rhand, Lastwhisper, and tomsloger.
Vote: EtR
----
~Boring Other Stuff~
There are a couple other explanations for EtR's behavior, which range from wildly implausible to literal skyscrappers made out of tinfoil. I could enumerate them, but I'd rather let @EtR attempt an explanation.
Sorry Not Sorry to EtR for making him "That guy who Reaverb Tau tricked into outing his entire scumteam."
Anyway since he's already on the back foot my question to EtR about the structure was because it's built like a stream of consciousness post and seems to be but it's just off timeline wise. His defense of me is in the wrong spot relative to the rest of the post and the Rhand part comes way too late. It doesn't work to have the thought "why are people disliking grape?" And then several thoughts later +1rhand for the verb usage theory. I wasn't disliked before that.
Or it’s scum!EtR doing that, being unsure if Tau trueclaimed or not.
Anyhow, I’m town and am pretty sure tom and LW are as well.
I have to think about wether this makes tau/EtR a dichotomy or not.
Vote: EtR
Unvote, Vote ETR
Also, is Tau is scum, Grape is too.
What ties Grape and Tau together for you?
Both etr and Tau need to be evaluated, that's regardless of ETRs flip
I would be ok with sorting out EtR toDay, but really want to see his reaction first.
But like I said, I don't believe that at the moment. It might be WIFOM, but I can't see scum!tau taking such a risk just to kill a town!etr on day 1. *MAYBE* he would if he thought he could discredit Tom/Rhand/Whisper enough to get suspicion off Grape. There is also a world where Tau and LnGrrR are scum together, and Tau is trying to stop that wagon, but the inclusion of Rhand doesn't make sense there. I'm also not sure LnGrrR's wagon is at the point where I'd make a gambit to stop it. I know I'm not Tau, but I just don't see it.
*PARAGRAPH REDACTED UNTIL ETR POSTS*
In any case, ETR and Tau can't both be telling the truth right now.
@KJ - What are your thoughts on Tau's claim?
More at 11
Because if they include Town!EtR worlds you're basically giving him alibis.
LnGrrrR ( 4 ): Lastwhisper (229); Vaimes (362); Tubba Fett (364); tomsloger (366);
EtR ( 3 ): Reaverb Tau (378); Grapefruit21 (382); M1ndreaver (385);
Grapefruit21 ( 2 ): Rhand (117); Rodemy (321);
Killjoy ( 1 ): Rumanshi (73);
Lastwhisper ( 1 ): KamikazeArchon (61);
Rhand ( 1 ): LnGrrrR (8);
tomsloger ( 1 ): zdtsd (133);
Tubba Fett ( 1 ): Killjoy (124);
From my point of view this could have been a couple things. I haven't played with Tau before and no nothing of his experience so it could be true that he was a lone mafia that didn't know the team. He could also be town thinking I'm scum and trying to out me.
So what I felt the options were:
1. Out him immediately based on his claim in chat
2. Ignore it
3. Play along
I don't think I truly believed that he was mafia because we aren't alignment confirmed to each other so there would be no reason at all for him to give that information out freely, unless he was a brand new player. So I figured this wouldn't be the best course.
Ignoring it was possible but wouldn't be any fun.
So I chose play along to see where it went. It was also the more enjoyable of the three options. In my post I chose myself and two random people, one that was being mostly scum read and 1 that was more neutral based on the fact that there are probably 4 mafia in the game. Surprise surprise it was a gambit.
I think that summarizes my thoughts pretty well.
@tau
You discredited all your reads because of an FPS, and I have no idea how to evaluate that at the moment
Ill make a more detailed post tonight after work
His claim didn't effect any of my reads. I didn't really buy it. But to be clear, whatever happens with me does not prove the alignment of Tau. He could still be scum through this. I don't know how often neighbors are T/S vs T/T though.
On an individual level, I still think your post, and grr's posts are still high in scum! equity, and many others, and it's still to early to start changing up my PoE because of interactions
I’ll bite. If he hasn’t replied by the time I get home in. 4-5 hours, I’m posting.