Seriously though, there is a decent amount of content, that's there's no to go out of your way to stray, from what's being currently focused on. You aren't given any thoughts on Grape, which to me, seems like if he may be your partner if he's scum, or two, you are just scum and he's not, and you could two *****s what happens to him
I hate your focus on meta, and outside of it, u haven't give any deeper thoughts on grape, or rod
You also nitpicked a post to answer my question, which I disliked
You are just hedging on Grape, and I asked you a question, on how you feel on Grape, and your answer doesn't even answer to question, because you agree it could mean everything or nothing
So I will ask you again, what do you think of Grape's post, there's a pretty strong debate on his alignment right now, and I feel like you are trying to stay in the sidelines, and I don't like that
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Tubba started this game very cautious and reactive which is not how Tubba really plays. I'm pretty sure I caught him doing this in his first scum game but wasn't confident enough to push it. Not making that mistake again.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Tubba started this game very cautious and reactive which is not how Tubba really plays. I'm pretty sure I caught him doing this in his first scum game but wasn't confident enough to push it. Not making that mistake again.
your thoughts are more fluid here, than I saw in token 2, and I'm really liking that... In terms of confidence, it's not the easiest case to push and it's somewhat easy for scum to start being more self aware of their posts, I caught Scarlet in the polygamist game on MAL, because a long side her entrance, and most of her day 1 thoughts, I thought she was extremely nervous, she ended up getting so better and I dropped it, which I really regret, because she was scum that game
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I sure wish Tubba would poke his head back in. We need to talk about why he's scum.
why do you think is town? I can probably argue your points better than I can argue mine
The gist of it, is that his early vote on me was poor, I think his response to it, saying he had a reason, but didn't state it at the time... Goes back to my focus on entrances
I think his overall thoughts as the game progressed got better, but I think what he is focusing on just weird
Like his jump to call you lock town was just weird, and I hated how self aware he was in that statement, tom also had a continuous of my thoughts
His post to discredit my read on Rodemy, was also really good, but like, he thinks I am town, so why focus on discrediting me... Just seems like he's defending people more than trying to find scum
Maybe he's town, maybe he's not, it's still up in the air, I read through a little of Ghostbusters, and I think he's "different"
His response to Rhand this morning was it, also gave off some "he sounds nervous" vibes
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
LW and tom town, easy reads easy life? LW seems exactly the same from the two games I've played with him. tom talking to his buddies and openly PR hunting as scum would be funny but maybe too on the nose to actually be a thing. +some vague feelings/reads align
Rod and Rhand were people I liked but had some negative ticks. Can go over that later.
@Killjoy: Tubba seemed comfortable and was kinda Doing Things early on. Wouldn't vote, kinda feels towny by Tubba standards. Why were you trying to jump the gun in reading me when I basically had no posts?
I kinda want to just +1 on KJ being town because of spec stuff, but I look at his readslist and go ??? Rhand top town, Riku/Tau/Tubba scum?
Vaimes
-
Lastwhisper
tomsloger
-
Rod
Rhand
Tubba
[people]
KamikazeArchon
Vote Kamikaze
Plausible scum on the early LW wagon, dislike his tom treatment, feel like his later LW read is a super specific/nitpicky thing that just exists to be a reason. [redacted] that's kinda coachy, I'll bring it up if it isn't self-resolving.
I skipped all the Grape stuff so I could do that separately; standby.
I like what Grape did with the LW wagon, but that's about it.
Dislike his whole KJ thing, because I don't think that "I finally know how to read KJ" and "KJ is applying spec advice" are at all the same. The thought behind may be real, town!KJ applying outside advice to his play, but seems to me like something Grape wanted to jump on before someone else could.
I already explained the ZDT read. Vaimes there isn't a ton but tonally he feels off to me. He'll sort himself out but he's tentatively scummy for the way he handled LW's tone.
He had this weird brand of confidence going that felt super different from my past experiences with him (at least at gamestart). What exactly did I do to "handle" it?
I sure wish Tubba would poke his head back in. We need to talk about why he's scum.
why do you think is town? I can probably argue your points better than I can argue mine
The gist of it, is that his early vote on me was poor, I think his response to it, saying he had a reason, but didn't state it at the time... Goes back to my focus on entrances
I think his overall thoughts as the game progressed got better, but I think what he is focusing on just weird
Like his jump to call you lock town was just weird, and I hated how self aware he was in that statement, tom also had a continuous of my thoughts
His post to discredit my read on Rodemy, was also really good, but like, he thinks I am town, so why focus on discrediting me... Just seems like he's defending people more than trying to find scum
Maybe he's town, maybe he's not, it's still up in the air, I read through a little of Ghostbusters, and I think he's "different"
His response to Rhand this morning was it, also gave off some "he sounds nervous" vibes
First do you understand why I was voting you?
Second what do you think I should have been focusing on instead? And what do you think I was focusing on?
Third what's wrong with town hunting?
Fourth do you know me at all? Me being ridiculously, painfully self aware is all part of the package.
Fifth I'm wasting time trying to discredit you so you'll stop tunneling town!Rod.
@KJ what are you seeing in Tau to have them that low?
*notes to self*
Stop trolling
Stop trying to hold LW's hand
Mix up verb usage
If you aren't going to accuse me of being scum, then kindly move elsewhere
I don't need anyone to hold my hand, I'm not some amazing player, but I'm definitely no idiot
I know you, do I remember many of the things you've done in games, not really, do I have any clue on your meta, which you seem to think? The answer is no,
If you aren't going to accuse me of being scum, then kindly move elsewhere
I don't need anyone to hold my hand, I'm not some amazing player, but I'm definitely no idiot
I know you, do I remember many of the things you've done in games, not really, do I have any clue on your meta, which you seem to think? The answer is no,
Nope. Answer my questions. Except 4 and 5. 4 was being obnoxious and 5 isn't relevant or a question.
And if you don't want me talk to you about things then don't post so much! As long as we're both around and posting I'm going to talk to you and tell you you're wrong while still thinking you're town.
RE: Grape
His townread of me early on peaked my interest a bit. After only a few posts he declares me Town based of what had to be one of my worst games in a while. Seeing as that was my most recent game, it feels like scum trying to use meta to townclear without having to put in much effort.
The lack of mention of the red flags (which i am pretty sure i asked him about and got no answer)doesn't help him. Says tom is town even though there are two? red flags. I don't know what world someone sees a red flag and then.. ignores them. ESSPECIALLY after he has been so confident in his reads up to this point. So i think he is trying to read a town tom as town, but have a backup just in case a wagon starts on him (which based off my early questions of tom, a wagon COULD have been possible.)
From that alone, i think he is scum.
vote Grape
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I had no real reason to suspect grape, at least not individually.
I did fact check rhands meta read thiugh, and it does seem accurate. Not sure what kami's claiming to have read to the contrary.
But aside from that his note to self to change up verb usage does look like an admission of guilt, or at least an admission that the meta read is right so my vote is probably just staying atp even though lngrr and mind pinged me harder
1. I don't actually know, you literally flip-flopped me to a town read, and you still never indicated why you voted me in the first place
2. Anyone thats not your town read? defending your town reads?
3. It should come naturally, just like your scum hunting, which I dont feel as if either is natural right now
RE: Grape
His townread of me early on peaked my interest a bit. After only a few posts he declares me Town based of what had to be one of my worst games in a while. Seeing as that was my most recent game, it feels like scum trying to use meta to townclear without having to put in much effort.
The lack of mention of the red flags (which i am pretty sure i asked him about and got no answer)doesn't help him. Says tom is town even though there are two? red flags. I don't know what world someone sees a red flag and then.. ignores them. ESSPECIALLY after he has been so confident in his reads up to this point. So i think he is trying to read a town tom as town, but have a backup just in case a wagon starts on him (which based off my early questions of tom, a wagon COULD have been possible.)
1. I don't actually know, you literally flip-flopped me to a town read, and you still never indicated why you voted me in the first place
2. Anyone thats not your town read? defending your town reads?
3. It should come naturally, just like your scum hunting, which I dont feel as if either is natural right now
@Grapefruit
1. Read the game. I explained my vote at length.
2. Read the game. I explained my other town reads at length.
3. So it went from "His post to discredit my read on Rodemy, was also really good, but like, he thinks I am town, so why focus on discrediting me... Just seems like he's defending people more than trying to find scum" to "It should come naturally, just like your scum hunting, which I dont feel as if either is natural right now". So was my defending not seeming natural that was the issue and not the lack of scum hunting?
Also does that quote of "His post to discredit my read on Rodemy, was also really good, but like, he thinks I am town, so why focus on discrediting me... Just seems like he's defending people more than trying to find scum" not show that you realize I am defending my town reads (like say Rodemy, or KJ as another example).
Tom's reactions to my LW nonsense are par for the course for him. Wagon speculation is his wheelhouse. And he'd totally make the KJ read both alignments, but I think the clarity is town+. He loves to obfuscate as both alignments, but occasionally he gets genuinely excited about something and enthusiasm for solving slips through early as town and I think that's what happened here. He knows I've been working on this theory so it could be a swerve, but meh, he denied believing it was accurate anyway so I don't think he would feel the need to swerve. It's not enough to lock him as town, but plenty to trust him as town and ignore him for now and lock him in as town till lylo if KA flips scum. One of the red flags is his interaction with Tau which would be textbook tom openwolfing.
@Wisp
Quote from Grape »
Anyway onto Wisp. So when I came in and saw we already had a wagon forming on wisp and my vote could officially make it a thing, especially if presented as real, I decided I had to vote him. By making it a real thing (tm) I'd force a ton of reactions.
Think "scumgrape knowing im right on kami and assumes ill clear myself with that read when i drop it" makes sense as partners, but
Well, big reveal time: it was "b" ive got nothing
But ill keep up the charade because he could totally be the 4th scum and his name can be a placeholder for now
Well that's funny. You ran that gimmick much more believably than I did.
But by all means continue tunneling me. I'm not dying today.
Vaimes reasoning for voting me feels by far the weakest of the bandwagon votes. Has that scum "I have to add reasoning but I really just want to sheep." feel to it. Tom's preemptive defense of it isn't great but could just be a tunnel on me.
I went and ISO'd you before that post, and I must have missed that explanation
What did those reactions tell you?
@grape
So was my defending not seeming natural that was the issue and not the lack of scum hunting?
i dont even know anymore, im just gunna take a step back at this point before I tunnel myself harder
@Rodemy
You know that kami pinged you as being completely different than in Ghostbusters as well, if that's the game you are referring to, so what do you think of his comment?
@Rodemy
You know that kami pinged you as being completely different than in Ghostbusters as well, if that's the game you are referring to, so what do you think of his comment?
I was literally about to get to that.
That too pinged me the same way. using that game as a basis of town vs Scum Rodemy is cheap and IMO completely useless.
AND KA using that is poor play because he has a few more games with me that that.
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Official prediction: me and tau will not see eye to eye, and vaguely scumread one another as long as were both alive
Dont think his alignment matters for this. Mine might, but not in ways anyone but me would understand.
Youre all ****ed if were both scum though
And tom winking and saying exactly what is happening is the sort of thing he loves to do as scum. He loves making those sorts of posts in general though so it's not something I'd scum read him for. It's more a if Tau flipped scum I'd take a hard hard look at tom situation.
The other red flag was the way he 100% bought into my KJ clear. If tom flipped scum I'd reopen the book on KJ, but it's not something that's going to form a read now. Just the sort of stuff he loves to do as scum, giving a performance as it were.
KA's completely unexplained and disengaged defense of me feels so wrong. I'd appreciate more votes there.
Official prediction: me and tau will not see eye to eye, and vaguely scumread one another as long as were both alive
Dont think his alignment matters for this. Mine might, but not in ways anyone but me would understand.
Youre all ****ed if were both scum though
And tom winking and saying exactly what is happening is the sort of thing he loves to do as scum. He loves making those sorts of posts in general though so it's not something I'd scum read him for. It's more a if Tau flipped scum I'd take a hard hard look at tom situation.
The other red flag was the way he 100% bought into my KJ clear. If tom flipped scum I'd reopen the book on KJ, but it's not something that's going to form a read now. Just the sort of stuff he loves to do as scum, giving a performance as it were.
KA's completely unexplained and disengaged defense of me feels so wrong. I'd appreciate more votes there.
you can add this post as well, I mean he states it doesnt mean anything outside of general sense, but when you bring up that post, this one just feels weird:
This isnt a judgement of anybody, but townreading grape or tau or whoever because they make good posts is the same as reading *your name here* for making bad ones or me for making trolly ones.
Interesting part is *why* they make the posts, not how good a job they do
again this all depends on flips tho, the only post that really pinged me so far, was Tom calling me out as a PR
Tom is really good at setting up the game, and distancing, so like I don't think I would change anyone's alignment based on his interactions if he flipped red, unless it was literally so blatant
In the world where Tom is town and is just being Tom, Rhand's read is probably not alignment indicative either way. Scum could be buddying, or town could just be not "reading tom at level 0". Grape's comment still looks gross. Like "here is a little shade for tom, who is probably town"? I don't think that comes from town mindset. Like, I just don't see how it's helpful to state that.
Can you highlight exactly what comment looked gross?
@Tau
Vote Rumanshi
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Is there like a reason why all your pop-ins come with this like, "GOTCHA" tone? Im hoping I get a chance to talk to you in real time? Is there a reason why you are posting unofficial vote counts, is that a common thing for you? also really finding it weird, that you pointed out his RVS as one of the deciding factors for you vote here, I get the low-impact activity point, aka "interjecting in the thread with stuff that doesnt particularly do anything"
@grape
Quote from Grape »
Quote from Grapefruit21 »
But by all means continue tunneling me. I'm not dying today.
Quote from Grapefruit21 »
I guess I'm probably the defacto death today
honestly I still cant get these off my mind, that self-awareness, they dont sound real?
@GRR
@Tubba
@Kami
I also would like to hear more from you too, specifically tubba, do you plan on voting anyone yet? if I'm scummy, why not vote me?
Tom is really good at setting up the game, and distancing, so like I don't think I would change anyone's alignment based on his interactions if he flipped red, unless it was literally so blatant
*shrug*
That's the main thing I'm comfortable with doing about tom these days. Maybe I'm just riding a hot streak but I've pretty much nailed that 2 games in a row and failed to action it to various degrees. Could be false confidence could be I've improved.
Anyway yeah, tom loves making winking posts like that. The post with Tau just felt so smug that it stuck with me, but it's not anything that should be taken seriously at this point. Just remembered.
What do you think of Vaimes and KA's reactions to the verb tell thing? How about Mindreaver and Toms?
I don't know what to say on the self conscious thing Wisp. It's what I do. I could go dig up examples from past games but I really can't be bothered. It's something really intrinsic to my personality. I constantly make self deprecating jokes that are wildly unfunny. It's why I'm really bad at perceiving my own meta.
Actually didn't beat me to it. That was on other stuff. I like where you're poking at the minute but I'd caution you that you've internalized activity standards that don't carry over to here. Too early and too little content from too many players to make reads based on things like pop ins feeling opportunistic. People play here because they can get by posting once or twice a day. Or at least that's part of the motivation.
Vaimes reasoning for voting me feels by far the weakest of the bandwagon votes. Has that scum "I have to add reasoning but I really just want to sheep." feel to it. Tom's preemptive defense of it isn't great but could just be a tunnel on me.
...Is that really the only way you can defend the complete lack of real, original basis behind the KJ read and your own attitude towards being run up?
So I took a look at Grape's meta and, sadly, I'm not seeing the "verb tell" at least on an overview.
I actually stated that I thought this was fake, I mean he could say he did, but its hard to prove if he did or not, but it would just be very to easy to just pretend he did, to be part of the current conversation... He stated that he had no real reason to suspect you, but taking the micro route rather than the Macro route which had you more as neutral is just susp, especially when hes voting you, after admitting to never really having a reason to suspect, but im not about to try to understand anything Tom does this early in the game
Quote from Tom »
I had no real reason to suspect grape, at least not individually.
I did fact check rhands meta read thiugh, and it does seem accurate. Not sure what kami's claiming to have read to the contrary.
But aside from that his note to self to change up verb usage does look like an admission of guilt, or at least an admission that the meta read is right so my vote is probably just staying atp even though lngrr and mind pinged me harder
I could say the same here, except he goes the opposite route... your response that hes refering to:
Quote from Grape »
*notes to self*
Stop trolling
Stop trying to hold LW's hand
Mix up verb usage
I honestly dont hate his response though, because he does have a point, but its such a dirty read, like its impossible to understand what dictates how people play between games, I mean I do agree that this sort of self-awareness comes from scum most of the time, it just find it rather frustrating, because there was a point where I had to constantly top post as scum, just so people would leave me alone, because I was so prone to being the most active as town
Quote from Mind »
(I'm contrasting with Rhand's posts regarding Grape's word choices, which is a similar behavioral tell post; where he waited to reveal until grape had a chance to reinforce his argument). If your observation was meant to help, why not wait a few more days until a clear pattern would emerge?
he doesnt really give his stance on the matter? but like he states it as strong evidence of why I should wait... when he doesnt even know if that reinforcement of Rhand's arguement is necessarily even a good thing, its like arguing that something is good before its even noted as being good. at least thats how i see it
I like what Grape did with the LW wagon, but that's about it.
Dislike his whole KJ thing, because I don't think that "I finally know how to read KJ" and "KJ is applying spec advice" are at all the same. The thought behind may be real, town!KJ applying outside advice to his play, but seems to me like something Grape wanted to jump on before someone else could.
I already explained the ZDT read. Vaimes there isn't a ton but tonally he feels off to me. He'll sort himself out but he's tentatively scummy for the way he handled LW's tone.
He had this weird brand of confidence going that felt super different from my past experiences with him (at least at gamestart). What exactly did I do to "handle" it?
Uhhh I need to see if Kami/Grape exists or nah, but Grape doesn't strike me as the "put non-pressured buddy at the bottom of readslist" type.
more meta reads, and the confidence bit doesnt even really correlate with any reason why he should see this as scummy, unless he thinks your post was TMI, if so, why not just say that? I kinda just feel like he also nitpicked your posts? another macro vs micro thing, if there was more content in this game, I would find this super sus
and ya, I need to start translating my play better, because my site has more activity per day, compared to this site, because of day lengths, and I guess that can answer Mind's question of why I didnt really wait long before splurging out my thoughts on Riku's Meta
In addition to completely brushing off those points as bandwagoning/sheeping, I have no idea where you're trying to go with your worldbuilding. Does it go something like "Vaimes does a catchup, votes for his buddy Kamikaze, but then completely takes it back just to bandwagon"?
I don't know what to say on the self conscious thing Wisp. It's what I do. I could go dig up examples from past games but I really can't be bothered. It's something really intrinsic to my personality. I constantly make self deprecating jokes that are wildly unfunny. It's why I'm really bad at perceiving my own meta.
dont bother, I think you are good player, and would refuse to read you off of meta, except outside of just being a building block... Its really just something that pings me
@LW: When I have a strong opinion on Grape I'll give it. I'm not going to force myself to "pick a side" for your sake. Right now I don't have basically any strong reads.
Don't worry about meta reads. I've decided that meta is ok to start with when people have so little in the game itself, but I agree it's only a soft thing; when we have a solid basis of behavior, I'm sure something interesting will come up for me to analyze.
@Rodemy: Have I been in a game where you were scum other than GB? I know I've been in town games with you, but it's the difference from the scum game that was interesting.
@Grape: I searched through a few pages of your posts in those games and did a count of terms like "I think" vs. "I guess", etc. The numbers I was getting were not showing a significant difference. FWIW I'm not defending you (that is, I'm not saying "oh grape must be town"), I just don't see the verb thing working.
He stated that he had no real reason to suspect you, but taking the micro route rather than the Macro route which had you more as neutral is just susp, especially when hes voting you, after admitting to never really having a reason to suspect, but im not about to try to understand anything Tom does this early in the game
I somehow put this under Kami's but its suppose to be in response to Tom
only this part
actually stated that I thought this was fake, I mean he could say he did, but its hard to prove if he did or not, but it would just be very to easy to just pretend he did, to be part of the current conversation...
Vaimes reasoning for voting me feels by far the weakest of the bandwagon votes. Has that scum "I have to add reasoning but I really just want to sheep." feel to it. Tom's preemptive defense of it isn't great but could just be a tunnel on me.
...Is that really the only way you can defend the complete lack of real, original basis behind the KJ read and your own attitude towards being run up?
Ummm what? You can dispute it being real or not, but "KJ implementing advice he got in a spec chat ergo town" is at least original. And what do you mean my attitude towards being run up? Describe it, because I've posted in about 5 different moods since Rhand dumped that bit of meta and the wagon started and my tone, energy, focus, and effort has been quite different across those different times. I can go try to dig up the conversation but searching through Discord sucks and I can't do it at work so I probably won't.
In addition to completely brushing off those points as bandwagoning/sheeping, I have no idea where you're trying to go with your worldbuilding. Does it go something like "Vaimes does a catchup, votes for his buddy Kamikaze, but then completely takes it back just to bandwagon"?
That isn't world building. It's scum hunting. I haven't said that I see a connection between you and KA because I don't see one at this point. Just find you both individually scummy. My point is that you did a catch up, avoided reading me and then did the "I'm sheeping, but here are extra reasons to make it look slightly less like sheeping." thing which is >rand to be scum. It's completely unrelated to my scum read on KA because I'm not going to exclude behavioral reads for team building at this stage.
@KA That makes sense. Which terms were you looking for? Just "I think" and "I guess" or were you looking for confidence projection vs doubt projection?
Vote Rumanshi
For poorly explained votes (particularly the Lastwhisper one) and low-impact activity.
Is there like a reason why all your pop-ins come with this like, "GOTCHA" tone? Im hoping I get a chance to talk to you in real time? Is there a reason why you are posting unofficial vote counts, is that a common thing for you? also really finding it weird, that you pointed out his RVS as one of the deciding factors for you vote here, I get the low-impact activity point, aka "interjecting in the thread with stuff that doesnt particularly do anything"
I don't have a reason for the "gotcha" tone, I think it's a side effect to make concise cases with low info. The unoffical votals are just because it's something I can do easily and may be helpful for Town. (I'm storing the votals for future analysis, so it's literal copy-and-paste).
@Killjoy Could you go into detail on your tomsloger townread? If you have a purpose behind not elaborating, can you say when you think you can say it?
--- Unoffical Votal Grapefruit21 ( 5 ): Rhand (117); M1ndreaver (187); tomsloger (257); Vaimes (314); Rodemy (321); LnGrrrR ( 2 ): Reaverb Tau (226); Lastwhisper (229); KamikazeArchon ( 1 ): Grapefruit21 (203); Killjoy ( 1 ): Rumanshi (73); Lastwhisper ( 1 ): KamikazeArchon (61); Rhand ( 1 ): LnGrrrR (8); tomsloger ( 1 ): zdtsd (133); Tubba Fett ( 1 ): Killjoy (124);
Ummm what? You can dispute it being real or not, but "KJ implementing advice he got in a spec chat ergo town" is at least original. And what do you mean my attitude towards being run up? Describe it, because I've posted in about 5 different moods since Rhand dumped that bit of meta and the wagon started and my tone, energy, focus, and effort has been quite different across those different times. I can go try to dig up the conversation but searching through Discord sucks and I can't do it at work so I probably won't.
It's quoted in the post. "I'm not getting lynched" vs. "I guess I'm the default lynch."
The original implication, from my POV, was that you learned how to read KJ as a person. Not a specific action that's half OOG and will only carry any weight in this one specific game.
Also ngl but it also looks like the type of townreads I like to push as scum, because they're easy to justify and give me something to do. But I get annoyed when people apply their own or others' meta to myself, so. This can be disregarded.
Do you think anyone else would have noticed it or pointed it out if you hadn't?
That isn't world building. It's scum hunting. I haven't said that I see a connection between you and KA because I don't see one at this point. Just find you both individually scummy. My point is that you did a catch up, avoided reading me and then did the "I'm sheeping, but here are extra reasons to make it look slightly less like sheeping." thing which is >rand to be scum. It's completely unrelated to my scum read on KA because I'm not going to exclude behavioral reads for team building at this stage.
You keep calling it sheeping. Whose thoughts am I sheeping?
I'd like more people to say why they think he's scum before I give my reasons.
Tubba: Is Grape scum? Why or why not?
Maybe? His tone feels different from Ghostbusters, but his activity level feels right. I don’t think I’m willing to bite into the TMI aspect of his posts, I feel like that’s just Grape. I agree with Tom and think it looks good for KJ though, and I don’t know why he would block himself off from moving on someone this early as scum.
As far as Whisper, I just get the vibe that they’re pushing a lot into the thread, but not taking a hard stance on anything. It could be playstyle, or it could be fishing for reactions to identify a push. It seems to me like they’re making softish statements and looking to the thread to legitimize them.
My first scum game was Low Fantasy, it was my first game period.
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I hate your focus on meta, and outside of it, u haven't give any deeper thoughts on grape, or rod
You also nitpicked a post to answer my question, which I disliked
You are just hedging on Grape, and I asked you a question, on how you feel on Grape, and your answer doesn't even answer to question, because you agree it could mean everything or nothing
So I will ask you again, what do you think of Grape's post, there's a pretty strong debate on his alignment right now, and I feel like you are trying to stay in the sidelines, and I don't like that
Did you explain your thoughts on tubba? If you did, do you mind stating them again? Else I just back read when I get a chance
I sure wish Tubba would poke his head back in. We need to talk about why he's scum.
The gist of it, is that his early vote on me was poor, I think his response to it, saying he had a reason, but didn't state it at the time... Goes back to my focus on entrances
I think his overall thoughts as the game progressed got better, but I think what he is focusing on just weird
Like his jump to call you lock town was just weird, and I hated how self aware he was in that statement, tom also had a continuous of my thoughts
His post to discredit my read on Rodemy, was also really good, but like, he thinks I am town, so why focus on discrediting me... Just seems like he's defending people more than trying to find scum
Maybe he's town, maybe he's not, it's still up in the air, I read through a little of Ghostbusters, and I think he's "different"
His response to Rhand this morning was it, also gave off some "he sounds nervous" vibes
brb 300 post catchup go
Tubba: Is Grape scum? Why or why not?
LW and tom town, easy reads easy life? LW seems exactly the same from the two games I've played with him. tom talking to his buddies and openly PR hunting as scum would be funny but maybe too on the nose to actually be a thing. +some vague feelings/reads align
Rod and Rhand were people I liked but had some negative ticks. Can go over that later.
@Killjoy: Tubba seemed comfortable and was kinda Doing Things early on. Wouldn't vote, kinda feels towny by Tubba standards. Why were you trying to jump the gun in reading me when I basically had no posts?
I kinda want to just +1 on KJ being town because of spec stuff, but I look at his readslist and go ??? Rhand top town, Riku/Tau/Tubba scum?
Vaimes
-
Lastwhisper
tomsloger
-
Rod
Rhand
Tubba
[people]
KamikazeArchon
Vote Kamikaze
Plausible scum on the early LW wagon, dislike his tom treatment, feel like his later LW read is a super specific/nitpicky thing that just exists to be a reason. [redacted] that's kinda coachy, I'll bring it up if it isn't self-resolving.
I skipped all the Grape stuff so I could do that separately; standby.
Grapefruit21 (3): Rhand, M1ndreaver, tomsloger
LnGrrrR (2): Reaverb Tau, Lastwhisper
KamikazeArchon (2): Grapefruit21, Vaimes
Lastwhisper (1): KamikazeArchon
tomsloger (1): zdtsd
Rhand (1): LnGrrrR
Killjoy (1): Rumanshi
Tubba Fett (1): Killjoy
August (1): Rodemy
Not Voting (3): Tubba Fett, August, EtR
V/LA: KamikazeArchon (March 1st - 3rd, March 8th - 10th)
August has been prodded and has 48 hours to confirm his PM before we start looking for his replacement.
With 16 alive, it’s 9 to lynch. Deadline is on March 8th.
I like what Grape did with the LW wagon, but that's about it.
Dislike his whole KJ thing, because I don't think that "I finally know how to read KJ" and "KJ is applying spec advice" are at all the same. The thought behind may be real, town!KJ applying outside advice to his play, but seems to me like something Grape wanted to jump on before someone else could. He had this weird brand of confidence going that felt super different from my past experiences with him (at least at gamestart). What exactly did I do to "handle" it? Mm, yeah, that's also not real.
Unvote, vote Grape
Uhhh I need to see if Kami/Grape exists or nah, but Grape doesn't strike me as the "put non-pressured buddy at the bottom of readslist" type.
ehhhhhhh
Yeah okay probably not buddies.
Idk how possible grr,grape, and kami are together
Riku moves down to the bottom in a special category until he proves to me that he is town
You need to go into more depth than that. Not in the read necessarily (though that would be good) but in the explanation.
First do you understand why I was voting you?
Second what do you think I should have been focusing on instead? And what do you think I was focusing on?
Third what's wrong with town hunting?
Fourth do you know me at all? Me being ridiculously, painfully self aware is all part of the package.
Fifth I'm wasting time trying to discredit you so you'll stop tunneling town!Rod.
@KJ what are you seeing in Tau to have them that low?
*notes to self*
Stop trolling
Stop trying to hold LW's hand
Mix up verb usage
I don't need anyone to hold my hand, I'm not some amazing player, but I'm definitely no idiot
I know you, do I remember many of the things you've done in games, not really, do I have any clue on your meta, which you seem to think? The answer is no,
Nope. Answer my questions. Except 4 and 5. 4 was being obnoxious and 5 isn't relevant or a question.
And if you don't want me talk to you about things then don't post so much! As long as we're both around and posting I'm going to talk to you and tell you you're wrong while still thinking you're town.
His townread of me early on peaked my interest a bit. After only a few posts he declares me Town based of what had to be one of my worst games in a while. Seeing as that was my most recent game, it feels like scum trying to use meta to townclear without having to put in much effort.
The lack of mention of the red flags (which i am pretty sure i asked him about and got no answer)doesn't help him. Says tom is town even though there are two? red flags. I don't know what world someone sees a red flag and then.. ignores them. ESSPECIALLY after he has been so confident in his reads up to this point. So i think he is trying to read a town tom as town, but have a backup just in case a wagon starts on him (which based off my early questions of tom, a wagon COULD have been possible.)
From that alone, i think he is scum.
vote Grape
I did fact check rhands meta read thiugh, and it does seem accurate. Not sure what kami's claiming to have read to the contrary.
But aside from that his note to self to change up verb usage does look like an admission of guilt, or at least an admission that the meta read is right so my vote is probably just staying atp even though lngrr and mind pinged me harder
Nothing pointing to w/w, but scumvaimes doesnt feel the need to add something to rhands reasoning on towngrape
2. Anyone thats not your town read? defending your town reads?
3. It should come naturally, just like your scum hunting, which I dont feel as if either is natural right now
@Grapefruit
Read the game. I talked about my red flag on tom.
1. Read the game. I explained my vote at length.
2. Read the game. I explained my other town reads at length.
3. So it went from "His post to discredit my read on Rodemy, was also really good, but like, he thinks I am town, so why focus on discrediting me... Just seems like he's defending people more than trying to find scum" to "It should come naturally, just like your scum hunting, which I dont feel as if either is natural right now". So was my defending not seeming natural that was the issue and not the lack of scum hunting?
Also does that quote of "His post to discredit my read on Rodemy, was also really good, but like, he thinks I am town, so why focus on discrediting me... Just seems like he's defending people more than trying to find scum" not show that you realize I am defending my town reads (like say Rodemy, or KJ as another example).
@Tom
*note to self*
Make sure my jokes are funny
@Wisp
Vaimes reasoning for voting me feels by far the weakest of the bandwagon votes. Has that scum "I have to add reasoning but I really just want to sheep." feel to it. Tom's preemptive defense of it isn't great but could just be a tunnel on me.
What did those reactions tell you?
@grape
So was my defending not seeming natural that was the issue and not the lack of scum hunting?
i dont even know anymore, im just gunna take a step back at this point before I tunnel myself harder
@grape
Can you explain the open wolfing comment that pinged from Tom, that was towards Tau?
You know that kami pinged you as being completely different than in Ghostbusters as well, if that's the game you are referring to, so what do you think of his comment?
I was literally about to get to that.
That too pinged me the same way. using that game as a basis of town vs Scum Rodemy is cheap and IMO completely useless.
AND KA using that is poor play because he has a few more games with me that that.
And tom winking and saying exactly what is happening is the sort of thing he loves to do as scum. He loves making those sorts of posts in general though so it's not something I'd scum read him for. It's more a if Tau flipped scum I'd take a hard hard look at tom situation.
The other red flag was the way he 100% bought into my KJ clear. If tom flipped scum I'd reopen the book on KJ, but it's not something that's going to form a read now. Just the sort of stuff he loves to do as scum, giving a performance as it were.
KA's completely unexplained and disengaged defense of me feels so wrong. I'd appreciate more votes there.
again this all depends on flips tho, the only post that really pinged me so far, was Tom calling me out as a PR
Can you highlight exactly what comment looked gross?
@Tau
Is there like a reason why all your pop-ins come with this like, "GOTCHA" tone? Im hoping I get a chance to talk to you in real time? Is there a reason why you are posting unofficial vote counts, is that a common thing for you? also really finding it weird, that you pointed out his RVS as one of the deciding factors for you vote here, I get the low-impact activity point, aka "interjecting in the thread with stuff that doesnt particularly do anything"
@grape
honestly I still cant get these off my mind, that self-awareness, they dont sound real?
@GRR
@Tubba
@Kami
I also would like to hear more from you too, specifically tubba, do you plan on voting anyone yet? if I'm scummy, why not vote me?
*shrug*
That's the main thing I'm comfortable with doing about tom these days. Maybe I'm just riding a hot streak but I've pretty much nailed that 2 games in a row and failed to action it to various degrees. Could be false confidence could be I've improved.
Anyway yeah, tom loves making winking posts like that. The post with Tau just felt so smug that it stuck with me, but it's not anything that should be taken seriously at this point. Just remembered.
What do you think of Vaimes and KA's reactions to the verb tell thing? How about Mindreaver and Toms?
I don't know what to say on the self conscious thing Wisp. It's what I do. I could go dig up examples from past games but I really can't be bothered. It's something really intrinsic to my personality. I constantly make self deprecating jokes that are wildly unfunny. It's why I'm really bad at perceiving my own meta.
I actually stated that I thought this was fake, I mean he could say he did, but its hard to prove if he did or not, but it would just be very to easy to just pretend he did, to be part of the current conversation... He stated that he had no real reason to suspect you, but taking the micro route rather than the Macro route which had you more as neutral is just susp, especially when hes voting you, after admitting to never really having a reason to suspect, but im not about to try to understand anything Tom does this early in the game
I could say the same here, except he goes the opposite route... your response that hes refering to:
I honestly dont hate his response though, because he does have a point, but its such a dirty read, like its impossible to understand what dictates how people play between games, I mean I do agree that this sort of self-awareness comes from scum most of the time, it just find it rather frustrating, because there was a point where I had to constantly top post as scum, just so people would leave me alone, because I was so prone to being the most active as town
he doesnt really give his stance on the matter? but like he states it as strong evidence of why I should wait... when he doesnt even know if that reinforcement of Rhand's arguement is necessarily even a good thing, its like arguing that something is good before its even noted as being good. at least thats how i see it
more meta reads, and the confidence bit doesnt even really correlate with any reason why he should see this as scummy, unless he thinks your post was TMI, if so, why not just say that? I kinda just feel like he also nitpicked your posts? another macro vs micro thing, if there was more content in this game, I would find this super sus
and ya, I need to start translating my play better, because my site has more activity per day, compared to this site, because of day lengths, and I guess that can answer Mind's question of why I didnt really wait long before splurging out my thoughts on Riku's Meta
Don't worry about meta reads. I've decided that meta is ok to start with when people have so little in the game itself, but I agree it's only a soft thing; when we have a solid basis of behavior, I'm sure something interesting will come up for me to analyze.
@Rodemy: Have I been in a game where you were scum other than GB? I know I've been in town games with you, but it's the difference from the scum game that was interesting.
@Grape: I searched through a few pages of your posts in those games and did a count of terms like "I think" vs. "I guess", etc. The numbers I was getting were not showing a significant difference. FWIW I'm not defending you (that is, I'm not saying "oh grape must be town"), I just don't see the verb thing working.
In my wall
I put this:
I somehow put this under Kami's but its suppose to be in response to Tom
only this part
was answering kami's quote
Ummm what? You can dispute it being real or not, but "KJ implementing advice he got in a spec chat ergo town" is at least original. And what do you mean my attitude towards being run up? Describe it, because I've posted in about 5 different moods since Rhand dumped that bit of meta and the wagon started and my tone, energy, focus, and effort has been quite different across those different times. I can go try to dig up the conversation but searching through Discord sucks and I can't do it at work so I probably won't.
That isn't world building. It's scum hunting. I haven't said that I see a connection between you and KA because I don't see one at this point. Just find you both individually scummy. My point is that you did a catch up, avoided reading me and then did the "I'm sheeping, but here are extra reasons to make it look slightly less like sheeping." thing which is >rand to be scum. It's completely unrelated to my scum read on KA because I'm not going to exclude behavioral reads for team building at this stage.
@KA That makes sense. Which terms were you looking for? Just "I think" and "I guess" or were you looking for confidence projection vs doubt projection?
---
Unoffical Votal
Grapefruit21 ( 5 ): Rhand (117); M1ndreaver (187); tomsloger (257); Vaimes (314); Rodemy (321);
LnGrrrR ( 2 ): Reaverb Tau (226); Lastwhisper (229);
KamikazeArchon ( 1 ): Grapefruit21 (203);
Killjoy ( 1 ): Rumanshi (73);
Lastwhisper ( 1 ): KamikazeArchon (61);
Rhand ( 1 ): LnGrrrR (8);
tomsloger ( 1 ): zdtsd (133);
Tubba Fett ( 1 ): Killjoy (124);
The original implication, from my POV, was that you learned how to read KJ as a person. Not a specific action that's half OOG and will only carry any weight in this one specific game.
Also ngl but it also looks like the type of townreads I like to push as scum, because they're easy to justify and give me something to do. But I get annoyed when people apply their own or others' meta to myself, so. This can be disregarded.
Do you think anyone else would have noticed it or pointed it out if you hadn't?
You keep calling it sheeping. Whose thoughts am I sheeping?
As far as Whisper, I just get the vibe that they’re pushing a lot into the thread, but not taking a hard stance on anything. It could be playstyle, or it could be fishing for reactions to identify a push. It seems to me like they’re making softish statements and looking to the thread to legitimize them.
My first scum game was Low Fantasy, it was my first game period.