KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
easy!
Im certainly never a wolf with both, theres bussing then theres gamethrowing.
And if i was scum with one it would be mindreaver, since i actively scumread him but never voted and tied grape to him.
Also my stance on grape wrt you probably only makes sense as scum with you with town grape who is wrong so im shifting the blame to him while allowing myself to defend.
Grape is, like, lock town if im scum. Vice versa makes sense as well if you read me positionally (which is historically a better method than behaviorally)
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Sure we can. Im town, and grape is unknown.
He seems to be closer to his scum meta than not though, at least in terms of how he phrases his thoughts.
Like, the first "i think" i saw in the town games he bolded the word *think* to stress he didnt believe in it strongly, and in the scum games its more a modifier to a regular opinion.
Rhand looks to be on to something.
But its by no means a lock
I am unreasonably excited by the idea that Grape might be caught by verbiage. Like I know logically it's probably weak sauce but I have been trying to make wording tells work for years. y e a r s
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
While verb meta itself isnt a thing, it's possible to pick someone up for changing there tone through the game. It's an interesting tell for some people but some are better at consistent tone than others.
Private Mod Note
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
I guess I'm probably the defacto death today so I should probably focus on making sure KJ isn't fooling me and I don't pocket the entire town on his behalf. Pretty sure I'm right though.
Theres a very simple meta for reading Riku, if he regularly makes posts, argues with people, and just calls himself town constantly, hes 99% just town
if he pops in for 1 or 2 posts every couple of days, then you just burn him at the stake
I'm really struggling with this one. On the one hand, you seem to know Riku enough that this might be valuable insight, but I'm struck how damning it is for somebody who hasn't posted much.
Like, I have you in my town column, but if you're both scum, this reads like frustration at a buddy for not posting. I don't think you make this post if you're scum and Riku isn't, that would be super obvious.
What was the purpose behind posting this? Wouldn't it have been more effective to wait a while, in the world where you are town and you think he's scum?
Theres a very simple meta for reading Riku, if he regularly makes posts, argues with people, and just calls himself town constantly, hes 99% just town
if he pops in for 1 or 2 posts every couple of days, then you just burn him at the stake
I'm really struggling with this one. On the one hand, you seem to know Riku enough that this might be valuable insight, but I'm struck how damning it is for somebody who hasn't posted much.
Like, I have you in my town column, but if you're both scum, this reads like frustration at a buddy for not posting. I don't think you make this post if you're scum and Riku isn't, that would be super obvious.
What was the purpose behind posting this? IWouldn't it have been more effective to wait a while, in the world where you are town and you think he's scum?
what was the purpose of question this post, at this very moment, this seems like more of a conclusion you would come to after a flip... And I won a game where my scum buddies just lurked, and I didn't get frustrated... Someone else mentioned Riku's lurking so I just mentioned it again... What are your thoughts on literally anything else?
I am unreasonably excited by the idea that Grape might be caught by verbiage. Like I know logically it's probably weak sauce but I have been trying to make wording tells work for years. y e a r s
I am unreasonably excited by the idea that Grape might be caught by verbiage. Like I know logically it's probably weak sauce but I have been trying to make wording tells work for years. y e a r s
You've convinced me to go look at Grape's meta.
why don't I like this post...
A: You are scum with grape
B: You are scum and lying about not
liking it
C: You are town, scum reading Kami and
Grape
I’m sure there are several more possibilities, but it’s just such a throwaway post. I guess you could just tell us why.
While verb meta itself isnt a thing, it's possible to pick someone up for changing there tone through the game. It's an interesting tell for some people but some are better at consistent tone than others.
scum in an MU game called me out for using two many buzz words... It was weird and really reachy, so idk how eager I am to believe that reads... I'll argue tho that tho Grape's post was well written and thoughtful, his priorities are misplaced, and I still have this feeling he's just scum and slipping up due to all the knowledge he has
I am unreasonably excited by the idea that Grape might be caught by verbiage. Like I know logically it's probably weak sauce but I have been trying to make wording tells work for years. y e a r s
You've convinced me to go look at Grape's meta.
why don't I like this post...
A: You are scum with grape
B: You are scum and lying about not
liking it
C: You are town, scum reading Kami and
Grape
I’m sure there are several more possibilities, but it’s just such a throwaway post. I guess you could just tell us why.
sure, in the case of grape flipping red, I think this was fake and some blatant distancing
Theres a very simple meta for reading Riku, if he regularly makes posts, argues with people, and just calls himself town constantly, hes 99% just town
if he pops in for 1 or 2 posts every couple of days, then you just burn him at the stake
I'm really struggling with this one. On the one hand, you seem to know Riku enough that this might be valuable insight, but I'm struck how damning it is for somebody who hasn't posted much.
Like, I have you in my town column, but if you're both scum, this reads like frustration at a buddy for not posting. I don't think you make this post if you're scum and Riku isn't, that would be super obvious.
What was the purpose behind posting this? IWouldn't it have been more effective to wait a while, in the world where you are town and you think he's scum?
what was the purpose of question this post, at this very moment, this seems like more of a conclusion you would come to after a flip... And I won a game where my scum buddies just lurked, and I didn't get frustrated... Someone else mentioned Riku's lurking so I just mentioned it again... What are your thoughts on literally anything else?
Maybe I'm just reading this response wrong, but why is there such aggression in the part I bolded? This isn't something that I'm harping on, or even something that I'm talking about a lot (and I have other posts on other topics). I want to understand your thought process for this post, because I do not know why you are throwing additional shade at riku like this. Also, try and keep in mind I don't know you from adam, so whatever you've done in the past is unknown to me.
My question is specifically why town you, would make that post. If it was generated by some other lurking comment (which I didn't remember, but I'll re-read), I can understand that.
And the timing question was me trying to figure out something and I don't want to be obvious about it. So, please try and help me understand why you'd mention riku's behavioral tells at that moment (I'm contrasting with Rhand's posts regarding Grape's word choices, which is a similar behavioral tell post; where he waited to reveal until grape had a chance to reinforce his argument). If your observation was meant to help, why not wait a few more days until a clear pattern would emerge?
Woah, I did not expect this much content so fast. I will review and post tonight when I can give it the attention it needs. In the meantime removing my RVS vote Unvote: Tom
@mindreaver
That was a nice observation, it was intentionally aggressive, cause I thought your focus was misguided, I can't give any deeper explanaition, I saw Tau mention Riku, so I gave my opinion on the matter, I spit out my thoughts regardless of how they may look in the moment
Why would town me make that post? I can't answer that, I couldn't even be able to answer why scum me would make that post because I don't differentiate the two
@tubba
Why not just take a stance? What's the point of exhausting so many possibilities? What did you think reading that post?
That you are hedging as much as possible, making as much noise as possible, and that it makes you look scummy.
1. How was that hedging? are you implying that I've hedged elsewhere?
2. Meaning? if you are referring to overloading the thread, then if my last scum game didn't exist, that would be transparently indicative of my town game, but now its just NAI
3. I explained my thoughts, do you only read your quotes? did you not notice my answer? does that change your opinion?
So I took a look at Grape's meta and, sadly, I'm not seeing the "verb tell" at least on an overview.
@LW: I don't know how you think you can evaluate "pops in once or twice a day" by reading one page. That's sure what it felt like to me.
Also you just keep making these posts. "Why would town me make that post? I can't answer that, I couldn't even be able to answer why scum me would make that post because I don't differentiate the two" - the first three times I read this it looks like an explicit admission of being scum. On the fourth time, yes, I can see a way to parse it that you could be town and say that, but it's just. So weird. Is your mindset that different from mine or am I overthinking this and you're just scum?
@Kami
do you have anything to say about Grape's posts this game?
I made one post with that statement, so exactly why are you lying?
The way I choose to evaluate the game is drastically different than anyone ive played with
@Kami
do you have anything to say about Grape's posts this game?
Not much. The most interesting thing is the "I'm not dying today", which usually reflexively makes me want to kill someone - but I've seen it from town enough that I know that's just an emotional reaction, not a real analysis.
I made one post with that statement, so exactly why are you lying?
What? I was saying I read and reread the statement. And "these posts" means generally posts that are weird to me, of which that is one example. That seems pretty obvious to me. Why did you jump to accusing me of lying?
You are gonna argue the interpretation of your statement? "These statements" and directly quoting a statement that I made, would infer that I've made multiple of them, and I'm rereading it still I don't see it how you see it, there could be certain contexts where you are right, that's it's more general, but that's not how your statement comes off, regardless of how obvious it was to "you", what's obvious is subjective
How do you have not much? Why did you focus on just that post, I'll repeat the same thing I said to Mind, I think the posts you are choosing to focus on are bad,
If that's not real analysis, why did you choose to analyse it?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
You are gonna argue the interpretation of your statement? "These statements" and directly quoting a statement that I made, would infer that I've made multiple of them, and I'm rereading it still I don't see it how you see it, there could be certain contexts where you are right, that's it's more general, but that's not how your statement comes off, regardless of how obvious it was to "you", what's obvious is subjective
How do you have not much? Why did you focus on just that post, I'll repeat the same thing I said to Mind, I think the posts you are choosing to focus on are bad,
ok.jpeg
If that's not real analysis, why did you choose to analyse it?
I didn't? It stood out to me and I mentioned my reaction. That's not analysis.
@KJ: Why do you think Last always get pushed?
Also: I'm going to be [/b]V/LA[/b] the next two weekends. Will try to read/post Sundays when I get back.
Wisp always seems kinda standoffish naturally, It's just the way he talks on forums. I think that's a factor.
Another one is I think he, like me, doesn't necessarily explain what he means fully the first time, so when he goes into more detail it's perceived maybe as trying to BS a read?
I think it's just a combination of things. But I haven't seen anything from him this game that's not just standard Wisp, and I think I've only ever seen him as town.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Rhand: any response?
Well yes, it proves my point.
Looks like it could be right
vote grape
Mindreaver still his buddy if its a hit, kj still town regardless
Im certainly never a wolf with both, theres bussing then theres gamethrowing.
And if i was scum with one it would be mindreaver, since i actively scumread him but never voted and tied grape to him.
Also my stance on grape wrt you probably only makes sense as scum with you with town grape who is wrong so im shifting the blame to him while allowing myself to defend.
Grape is, like, lock town if im scum. Vice versa makes sense as well if you read me positionally (which is historically a better method than behaviorally)
I was referring to the verbs re: how can you think that? Btw Tom.
He seems to be closer to his scum meta than not though, at least in terms of how he phrases his thoughts.
Like, the first "i think" i saw in the town games he bolded the word *think* to stress he didnt believe in it strongly, and in the scum games its more a modifier to a regular opinion.
Rhand looks to be on to something.
But its by no means a lock
You've convinced me to go look at Grape's meta.
I think this is townie of Rhand.
Including the post before this one
Looks like you can’t even fake it
I put that in just for you
Like, I have you in my town column, but if you're both scum, this reads like frustration at a buddy for not posting. I don't think you make this post if you're scum and Riku isn't, that would be super obvious.
What was the purpose behind posting this? Wouldn't it have been more effective to wait a while, in the world where you are town and you think he's scum?
I voted August for pressure because let’s face it, *****s kicking off an they provided nothing
Any questions for me that I missed?
A: You are scum with grape
B: You are scum and lying about not
liking it
C: You are town, scum reading Kami and
Grape
I’m sure there are several more possibilities, but it’s just such a throwaway post. I guess you could just tell us why.
My question is specifically why town you, would make that post. If it was generated by some other lurking comment (which I didn't remember, but I'll re-read), I can understand that.
And the timing question was me trying to figure out something and I don't want to be obvious about it. So, please try and help me understand why you'd mention riku's behavioral tells at that moment (I'm contrasting with Rhand's posts regarding Grape's word choices, which is a similar behavioral tell post; where he waited to reveal until grape had a chance to reinforce his argument). If your observation was meant to help, why not wait a few more days until a clear pattern would emerge?
Why not just take a stance? What's the point of exhausting so many possibilities? What did you think reading that post?
That was a nice observation, it was intentionally aggressive, cause I thought your focus was misguided, I can't give any deeper explanaition, I saw Tau mention Riku, so I gave my opinion on the matter, I spit out my thoughts regardless of how they may look in the moment
Why would town me make that post? I can't answer that, I couldn't even be able to answer why scum me would make that post because I don't differentiate the two
@Rod I would also like to see your stance on Grape, and also on LnGrrrR.
uhhm idk what you are talking about, but page one alone Riku's town meta radiated, and you were also scum that game...
That you are hedging as much as possible, making as much noise as possible, and that it makes you looks scummy.
1. How was that hedging? are you implying that I've hedged elsewhere?
2. Meaning? if you are referring to overloading the thread, then if my last scum game didn't exist, that would be transparently indicative of my town game, but now its just NAI
3. I explained my thoughts, do you only read your quotes? did you not notice my answer? does that change your opinion?
@LW: I don't know how you think you can evaluate "pops in once or twice a day" by reading one page. That's sure what it felt like to me.
Also you just keep making these posts. "Why would town me make that post? I can't answer that, I couldn't even be able to answer why scum me would make that post because I don't differentiate the two" - the first three times I read this it looks like an explicit admission of being scum. On the fourth time, yes, I can see a way to parse it that you could be town and say that, but it's just. So weird. Is your mindset that different from mine or am I overthinking this and you're just scum?
do you have anything to say about Grape's posts this game?
I made one post with that statement, so exactly why are you lying?
The way I choose to evaluate the game is drastically different than anyone ive played with
How do you have not much? Why did you focus on just that post, I'll repeat the same thing I said to Mind, I think the posts you are choosing to focus on are bad,
If that's not real analysis, why did you choose to analyse it?
@Tubba: Can you explain your progression on Wisp? Why is he scum?
@KJ: Why do you think Last always get pushed?
Also: I'm going to be [/b]V/LA[/b] the next two weekends. Will try to read/post Sundays when I get back.
Another one is I think he, like me, doesn't necessarily explain what he means fully the first time, so when he goes into more detail it's perceived maybe as trying to BS a read?
I think it's just a combination of things. But I haven't seen anything from him this game that's not just standard Wisp, and I think I've only ever seen him as town.
Tom
EtR, Kami, August, ztd, Vaimes, Mindreaver, LnGrrR
Riku?
Tau
Tubba