Honestly I'm kind of more interested in his informed reads as scum would be prepped to pretend to play dumb if there is day chat. So having his read be through the lens of "grape and KJ are probably town" is more informative.
It's possible he would have slipped but meh. Him finding time to comment on both my wall and KJs is a half eyebrow raise but apparently I've just been objectively scummy.
I think this is the dumbest gambit I've ever seen. If etr is scum there is no way he believes he has a neighbour chat with another lone scum and he most certainly doesn't just out the scumteam. That should have been easy and both would have been town, but etr's follow-up and lw's random raging might mean there's more under the surface. Etr should be THE vig target just because of this cluster****.
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It wasn't random... Kami's evaluation of the situation was so bad, and many others are starting to call him out for it
You should read the whole thread, note down posts, and comment on them after, because there's a chance they will be answered, or your stance will change
I think this is the dumbest gambit I've ever seen. If etr is scum there is no way he believes he has a neighbour chat with another lone scum and he most certainly doesn't just out the scumteam. That should have been easy and both would have been town, but etr's follow-up and lw's random raging might mean there's more under the surface. Etr should be THE vig target just because of this cluster****.
Okay, talk me through the scenario's. What's EtR thinking as town? What's EtR thinking as scum? What's EtR thinking as WIFOM'ing scum?
The whole thing is a mess.
Vaimes is now up there with any of my high townie reads after reviewing his back and forth with LW. Also willing to lock in an unaligned read there. I don't think Vaimes is ever able to make 1211 to a scum buddy.
1227 is a weird post... The mindset behind "I think you are town so I hope you are a PR" is not one that groks to me. Maybe the whole thing is a joke, but it's still a very strange perspective.
Definitely not able to lock in the GJ/Rhand unaligned read that I talked about earlier. The exchange didn't feel like two pressured scum buddies but it also doesn't rule out the possibility.
Etr town plays into the gambit to see how it goes. If Tau evades any attack on the scum team he called then he is actually lone scum who is desperate. If he doesn't do anything out of the ordinary it means it's just a failed gambit.
Scum EtR laughs at the gambit and either ignores it or humors him with bad reads to spread wifom.
No idea why town etr backtracks on the questions. Scum etr either tries to spread more wifom with that move or about 0.1% that he actually falls for it and tries to muddy the waters.
There's also the distinct possibility that Tau is actually lone scum and this gambit is just him trying to signal that to the scum team.
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Either GJ is scum and is... WAY more obvious about it than I've ever seen him... (And I'm remembering STMU...3? when I lynched Rhand over him in Lylo...) or he's doing a thing that if I say it he won't be able to do it anymore, and is town.
Clearly, that isn't the case. If I was as obvious as you seem to think, would I not be vying for a big wagon? And I don't consider tom's vote to be real. He is either a wolf, or just outright throwing. I'll repeat myself again: You are using an outdated meta read on me, instead of thinking why I could be getting reads the way I am. I am also very self aware of my meta, and both metas cover a wide area.
So lemme try this... GJ: Would you say you're getting your reads based on a specific kind of behavioral analysis?
Gonna see if I can telepathically communicate without potentially ruining something? And hoping I'm not being TOO obvious with this.
I went back to the roots on my time at MU. The entire question of who I am wolf reading or not comes down to the question: Do I think you are trying to solve the game? And the grey area is why do I think you care about other people's alignment vs why I think that person isn't wolf hunting, PR hints/outs aside.
That's my approach to this game. I feel like you try to hunt a lot more actively in my view, and I feel like you are slanking. I feel like the outing of grape with neither of you under pressure felt suspect, but not enough where I would be willing to try and wagon you, because honestly, you self resolve. Elsewhere, I have my reasons, and rarely do I use meta to use it. I basically ask myself: "Is this person trying to solve". It's why I hate Riku's slot/style so much, because the answer is an loud no, and yet the last two games I played with him, he flipped town. It gets really frusterating, because unless he just nonstops solves as a wolf, it makes him a coin flip each game, and dead weight otherwise. Vezok has brought some light to that slot, and I overall like his catch ups, but I want to see him start working live, before I start moving him to town.
He is doing enough where I don't want to lynch him today though. LnGrrr/Mind. Tom would be my fantasy/hero lynch, few others I would settle for.
I think I'm really bad at this game. I just did a skim of LnGrrrR and came out thinking he is town. The main things that stuck out to me were his early handling of the LW wagon and questions to KJ, his response to Tau's big case on him, and his derpy realization that I was townie per KJ. Also t o n e. Ask me anything.
I don't know why I keep town reading low posters when I skim their ISO's, feels like a bad habit.
I think I'm really bad at this game. I just did a skim of LnGrrrR and came out thinking he is town. The main things that stuck out to me were his early handling of the LW wagon and questions to KJ, his response to Tau's big case on him, and his derpy realization that I was townie per KJ. Also t o n e. Ask me anything.
I don't know why I keep town reading low posters when I skim their ISO's, feels like a bad habit.
I have an incredibly stale town read on Mind for the way he hopped on my wagon early. The wagon hop felt genuine, everyone else disagreed and my read wasn't so strong that I felt like fighting it. I'd been waiting for him to do more before reevaluating but that hasn't happened so I should take another look.
As for who I want to wagon 1 of EtR, KA, Tom, and Rhand.
So you think tom's a wolf with me, and you voted right behind Etr on Rhand, who you also think is a wolf.
That about right?
Sort of. I'm not building teams for the most part, just finding scummy people. Though I do like to rule out teams if I can. I don't have you and tom as buddies, just both independently scummy. As for EtR I am quite sure both villagers and wolves have voted him and am just going to focus on the EtR part of it till I'm more confident on his alignment.
Like KA and EtR are basically never buddies but at this point I think they both are scummy.
So you think tom's a wolf with me, and you voted right behind Etr on Rhand, who you also think is a wolf.
That about right?
Sort of. I'm not building teams for the most part, just finding scummy people. Though I do like to rule out teams if I can. I don't have you and tom as buddies, just both independently scummy. As for EtR I am quite sure both villagers and wolves have voted him and am just going to focus on the EtR part of it till I'm more confident on his alignment.
Like KA and EtR are basically never buddies but at this point I think they both are scummy.
There is a difference between finding interactions between people and putting teams together and voting hand in hand with a wolf read. I know you are smarter than this.
And I can't really shade you. I can just lol at you at this point really. But ask yourself this question: Do you think Mind or LnGrrr are really trying to solve the game, or appear to be? You made a point for LnGrrr, try mind now.
That said, as far as your list goes. The fact that Etr has done 0 hunting since pressure moved away is a pretty bad look.
There are too many wolf reads. Apathy is way too high for day 1. We need to end the day, and hope for some spicy abilities/night kills. LnGrrr/Mind/Tubba/Etr. NOt moving from there.
honestly both ETR and Tau have been pretty uneventful ever since the gambit, ETR has made more posts than Tau though, the last psot I remember from Tau was him asking what a LHF was...
honestly both ETR and Tau have been pretty uneventful ever since the gambit, ETR has made more posts than Tau though, the last psot I remember from Tau was him asking what a LHF was...
Tau had decent tone before that wave, so I kind of like that slot. And there are people who are far wolfier that are also slanking.
slots admittedly falling, which is making it hard as decent town reads are already hard to come by.
Hey do i have enough towncred/a good enough reputation/whatever to just say "lets lynch gj and if he flips town i personally take all the blame and you can lynch me tomorrow"?
Not saying I'm there, ive only been skimming since i went v/la and would want to do my due dilligence and maybe figure out how to articulate it in some kind of way that makes sense to people other than me if it still holds but...
Currently what im feeling pretty strongly
Hey do i have enough towncred/a good enough reputation/whatever to just say "lets lynch gj and if he flips town i personally take all the blame and you can lynch me tomorrow"?
Not saying I'm there, ive only been skimming since i went v/la and would want to do my due dilligence and maybe figure out how to articulate it in some kind of way that makes sense to people other than me if it still holds but...
Currently what im feeling pretty strongly
Considering you have seen me wolf, and wolfed with me, this is a laughably bad read, and it's getting real hard to think you are legit wolf reading me htat you are willing to get dunked day 2.
I've done some re-reading and as GJ has correctly pointed out, I'm not doing a lot of hunting. My vote is presently on the person that I most believe is to be scum. I'm at a loss at this point without a flip though. I need some concrete information. I'm really liking Vez's few catch up posts.
Like, at this point everyone is just going back and forth.
Thoughts
Tubba: I haven't like his posts but I'm willing to barn those that are town reading him presently.
Grape: I still haven't loved his posts but without a counter claim of some sort, will leave him as town
KA: Lean town. As I said in my vote review, I don't know how he can be so confident about me and yet so wrong without being town.
Reverb: Null read. Gambit leans town trying to trap dumb scum, but I don't have a lot to say beyond that.
LW: Town: I've gone back and forth on this one, but overall, I've liked the posts. Specifically the arguments with other players. The frustration reads as true.
EtR: Town
Rodemy: Very different play from Ghostbusters. Feels town.
D_V: I think D_V is bringing something very different than in GB, but not in a way that feels bad. I like this D_V for town.
Vaimes: Lean scum. I'm not getting a lot of positive vibes from his reads and the most recent back and forth with LW did not feel super townie.
Mind: Neutral - I don't see what everyone else does here. Nothing from Mind has specifically thrown me off but I'm willing to accept that my read is wrong. Like all of my reads in GB.
KJ: My KJ read is completely dependent on Grape's status. The idea that we have a Godfather in a mafia flavor game is something though.
Rhand: Scum
GJ: Lean town. I've disagreed with his reads, but nothing that I can't see from a town perspective
LngRrRrR: Scum. I believe that there are a lot of posts that read as disingenuous.
Vez: so far town. Ruma was so far removed that I never really established a good read on him so this is dependant wholly on the Vez read.
@GJ on D1 I just don't worry much about voting with a wolf read unless it's with multiple and no strong town reads. Despite tom and shadow's best efforts people still bus the crap out of each other out of the gate. It's not ideal that I've been voting with my wolf reads all day, but I'm not overly concerned about it either.
@tom you don't have that sort of credit with me but I'd still go along with that plan.
This quote is from Rhand's 1245 where he breaks down D_V's case on him:
This is not true. I voted EtR for a very different (granted bad) reason: I thought he botched his claim. That had nothing to do with me deciding there’s a dichotomy, and I don’t think there is.
Turns out he didn’t botch his claim, and I did unvote when I realized my wrongness. (this happens after DV’s case though)
How did you figure I botched my claim? You really just threw shade. You also mention in your wrap up that you believe Tau and I are T/T. Can you explain where/how you got to that conclusion?
@EtR Shouldn't my status depend on KJ's and not the other way around? Can you give me a bit more detail on Vaimes and Mindreaver.
You're right, I guess it could actually go either way. If you are scum, that doesn't make KJ town, but it makes him less likely to be scum. If you are town, it doesn't move the needle either way. If KJ is scum you could be either. If KJ is town, same thing. So really I guess there is nothing that can be drawn from either flip from a true analysis standpoint.
What are you wondering about Vaimes and Mind? Are you looking for specific quotes?
@EtR Shouldn't my status depend on KJ's and not the other way around? Can you give me a bit more detail on Vaimes and Mindreaver.
To an extent. In a KJ wolf world, I would actually believe you were still town, and KJ was trying for credit. Super bold to tie ones self so close to a buddy, especially day 1.
Quote from Grape »
@GJ on D1 I just don't worry much about voting with a wolf read unless it's with multiple and no strong town reads. Despite tom and shadow's best efforts people still bus the crap out of each other out of the gate. It's not ideal that I've been voting with my wolf reads all day, but I'm not overly concerned about it either.
@tom you don't have that sort of credit with me but I'd still go along with that plan.
Mind reread happening pending work cooperating.
Wolves bus each other by being the first vote on their wolf buddy, and running the wagon? I suggest you consider that more in the future, becuase when you question that, you really start questioning their reads. The simple answer is that you're right, they are busing. But that early, that parked? It is more likely you have a read wrong, figure out where.
Hey do i have enough towncred/a good enough reputation/whatever to just say "lets lynch gj and if he flips town i personally take all the blame and you can lynch me tomorrow"?
Not saying I'm there, ive only been skimming since i went v/la and would want to do my due dilligence and maybe figure out how to articulate it in some kind of way that makes sense to people other than me if it still holds but...
Currently what im feeling pretty strongly
I kinda like Johnny here, you’d need to make a case and stand behind it for me to consider it.
@LnGrr
This pretty necromantic, but I felt like GJ siccing D_V on Grape was very null. It didn’t seem like a real push.
@EtR
Who do you agree with on my towniness? I seem pretty high in your list for having no posts that you like.
@EtR Shouldn't my status depend on KJ's and not the other way around? Can you give me a bit more detail on Vaimes and Mindreaver.
You're right, I guess it could actually go either way. If you are scum, that doesn't make KJ town, but it makes him less likely to be scum. If you are town, it doesn't move the needle either way. If KJ is scum you could be either. If KJ is town, same thing. So really I guess there is nothing that can be drawn from either flip from a true analysis standpoint.
What are you wondering about Vaimes and Mind? Are you looking for specific quotes?
I strongly disagree with your KJ analysis. If he flips scum then you can't fully draw conclusions about me, but it strongly suggests I'm scum. If he flips town and his role says that he learns the alignment of 1 player on N0 you know for a fact I'm town. If I were to flip scum it would say KJ isn't town, but my flipping town says nothing about his alignment.
Hey do i have enough towncred/a good enough reputation/whatever to just say "lets lynch gj and if he flips town i personally take all the blame and you can lynch me tomorrow"?
Not saying I'm there, ive only been skimming since i went v/la and would want to do my due dilligence and maybe figure out how to articulate it in some kind of way that makes sense to people other than me if it still holds but...
Currently what im feeling pretty strongly
I kinda like Johnny here, you’d need to make a case and stand behind it for me to consider it.
@LnGrr
This pretty necromantic, but I felt like GJ siccing D_V on Grape was very null. It didn’t seem like a real push.
@EtR
Who do you agree with on my towniness? I seem pretty high in your list for having no posts that you like.
@EtR Shouldn't my status depend on KJ's and not the other way around? Can you give me a bit more detail on Vaimes and Mindreaver.
You're right, I guess it could actually go either way. If you are scum, that doesn't make KJ town, but it makes him less likely to be scum. If you are town, it doesn't move the needle either way. If KJ is scum you could be either. If KJ is town, same thing. So really I guess there is nothing that can be drawn from either flip from a true analysis standpoint.
What are you wondering about Vaimes and Mind? Are you looking for specific quotes?
I strongly disagree with your KJ analysis. If he flips scum then you can't fully draw conclusions about me, but it strongly suggests I'm scum. If he flips town and his role says that he learns the alignment of 1 player on N0 you know for a fact I'm town. If I were to flip scum it would say KJ isn't town, but my flipping town says nothing about his alignment.
Ohhh and on those two I don't need specific quotes, just a deeper explanation of why you're thinking what you're thinking. Quotes would be great but I want to know why you don't find the Mind case compelling but are willing to sheep on Tubbba. And I want to understand what you're seeing about Vaimes.
Anyway I did a quick Mindreaver dive and meh. I don't see anything glaring either way. The end of the show down with DV feels slightly CFTWR, but a lot of townies come out of thunderdomes with DV looking that way. I still like the way he handled me in the early game and his pokes feel right. I just need more to be confident one way or another. If he's scum it's the sort I have a blind spot for till much later in the game (reasonable and polite). I'm not going to be leading that wagon but I'm not going to fight it either.
This quote is from Rhand's 1245 where he breaks down D_V's case on him:
This is not true. I voted EtR for a very different (granted bad) reason: I thought he botched his claim. That had nothing to do with me deciding there’s a dichotomy, and I don’t think there is.
Turns out he didn’t botch his claim, and I did unvote when I realized my wrongness. (this happens after DV’s case though)
How did you figure I botched my claim? You really just threw shade. You also mention in your wrap up that you believe Tau and I are T/T. Can you explain where/how you got to that conclusion?
Tau claimed town neighbour, you first said you were the same and later that you had no rolename and an extra ability unlock.
That seemed like a botched claim.
I’ll hunt for the post where I explained you’re likely t/t. The reason is that if you are t/s, the mod created a win more situation with the ability unlocks, which I doubt they’ve done.
Now can you explain why you think I am scum? You kake a list commenting on everyone, amd about me all you have to say is “scum”, but you do wnat me lynched most?
unvote
With the claims matching, t/t is the most likely option because I don’t think shadow would create a win more situation.
@tau: do you also not know what ability you can unlock?
Grape / Kami / tubba? / ?
@DV: don’t go and tunnel me and then say stuff like “not sure who was townreading him”. You’re only reading my posts it seems?
@GJ that's true but knowing my read is wrong doesn't tell me which direction it's wrong in. Am I voting town with a wolf or am I voting a wolf with town or am I voting town with town? I can't tell and I don't want to go that deep on D1.
@LnGrrrR tell me more about not liking the GJ/DV thing. I'm all ears.
Finished 12. Still hate grape, but if kj says he is town then he is town. Tom seems really town, but it might be overdrive from getting the scum team exposed.
I want to vote rhand, but I'm not yet convinced he is scum.
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You're not doing the thing that I thought maybe you were. So I will answer your questions etc. The Thing I was thinking of was I thought you were making posts to elicit reactions from us. If you were, I was thinking you might be town for it.
As it stands, like, some of the things you're saying I'm just kind of turning my head at. Things that I'm headtilting at include when you accused tom of being self-concious and you making a statement to Grape about it being "Bold to assume there's a scum roleblocker" which is a little shade-y towards someone you're townreading.
The way GJ is scum reading me send abrupt and largely unfounded.
GJ: based on what I've claimed, what do you think my role is? Why do you think I'm lying?
How would your answer change if you were actually scum in your world? "Oh shucks, guess you got me?"
As far as your role, I am going to guess mafia cop, maybe a roleblocker?
If you meant what role do I think you are pretending to be, I assumed cop with a n0 check as the only other role that comes to mind that would know another townie's alignment is mason. And I think you'd have an issue with you two existing in this world with Etr/Tau
See, this is partially what I mean. "How would you answer change etc." That whole line is nonsense.
And my role is literally what I claimed it was. I recieved info that Grape was town in the Pregame as well as his character name is the same as my least favorite Ninja Turtle.
GJ is scumreading me for being underwhelming and thinking I'm lying about my ability
Just the bolded. The lying about your ability only occurs if I think you are a wolf. If it makes you feel better, I did some thinking and decided it probably means Grape is town whether I am right or wrong, but your interaction and outing did not come from what I would expect a townie to do who is hiding a pr.
And again "The lying about your ability only occurs if I think you're a wolf" I mean, duh. Of course I wouldn't be lying about my ability unless I was a wolf.
What would you expect a townie to do in this situation that I didn't? What were you looking for?
2. GJ is jumping to the conclusion that I'm lying without even bothering to grill me to see if I am indeed lying.
I mean, if I am scum reading you, I don't really care what you are claiming. I don't really have a captivated audiance right now, so it won't likely gain traction. How hard you are defending yourself strikes me as odd.
I'm just like... really confused why you think these things.
GJ is a player that likes to have full info before drawing such final conclusions. How do I know this? Because not too long ago (maybe it's still a thing, IDK but it certainly used to be) GJ's whole D1 play would be to do mostly nothing while poking at people and drawing very weak conclusions to expand the next day because... wait for it... THERES NOT ENOUGH INFO D1.
1). Meta is trash
2). Your meta read on me is woefully out of date. I don't know what made you think this was a final decision though, considering I didn't even commit a vote on you. Things change. I don't believe you, but I am not stupid enough to try to get the town to force through a lynch on an uncced investigative role. Like, even if I was a wolf, why would I draw that much attention to myself?
I agree that meta isn't the best, but thats why I rarely use it.
I am glad that it's out of date... but that doesn't change the basis of it.
You didn't act due to lack of info, but your level of certainty on me is more than I'd expect a person like you to have this early in the game.
There's a reason that meta was EVER accurate. Why aren't you seeing that?
So, GJ calling my play underwhelming and scumreading me for it (which, again, can be used to describe a lot of his D1 posts in other games) is bull*****.
Am I not allowed to wolf read people who I deem to not be actively hunting?
No, you're not. You can only scumread people named Osie, Huntzilla, and people who mispronounce their names in podcasts. Its in the OP.
then check what scumGJ means for this game. I've also been meaning to check the GF wagon to see who the scum are on it.
I am assuming when you quoted my meta, there are parts of it you don't disagree with. What you are doing right now is absurdly wolfy. Even if you legit think I am a wolf, why would you try to read any amount of interaction I have with people with 0 dead bodies? Even on my short list, I am pretty sure my two wolfiest players aren't w/w. I am just going with independent reads.
Evenetually, someone gets lynched. Whoever the town thinks is subjectively the likelies to flip wolf. As of now, I don't feel confidant that it's you,and even if I did, you put yourself on a clock anyway.
Honestly, the towniest thing I have seen you do is when tom asked you, and you double downed on grape.
Because your levels of certainty, and what I percieved to be a disconnection between what you used to do as town and what you're doing now.
There's perhaps something to be said about you being more casual as town back then as well but that memory isn't as defined as you not doing things D1 because no info.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Either GJ is scum and is... WAY more obvious about it than I've ever seen him... (And I'm remembering STMU...3? when I lynched Rhand over him in Lylo...) or he's doing a thing that if I say it he won't be able to do it anymore, and is town.
Clearly, that isn't the case. If I was as obvious as you seem to think, would I not be vying for a big wagon? And I don't consider tom's vote to be real. He is either a wolf, or just outright throwing. I'll repeat myself again: You are using an outdated meta read on me, instead of thinking why I could be getting reads the way I am. I am also very self aware of my meta, and both metas cover a wide area.
I DON'T think you're obvious. Which is part of why I'm headscratching at you. So I'll drop the meta thing if it's false now.
So lemme try this... GJ: Would you say you're getting your reads based on a specific kind of behavioral analysis?
Gonna see if I can telepathically communicate without potentially ruining something? And hoping I'm not being TOO obvious with this.
I went back to the roots on my time at MU. The entire question of who I am wolf reading or not comes down to the question: Do I think you are trying to solve the game? And the grey area is why do I think you care about other people's alignment vs why I think that person isn't wolf hunting, PR hints/outs aside.
That's my approach to this game. I feel like you try to hunt a lot more actively in my view, and I feel like you are slanking. I feel like the outing of grape with neither of you under pressure felt suspect, but not enough where I would be willing to try and wagon you, because honestly, you self resolve. Elsewhere, I have my reasons, and rarely do I use meta to use it. I basically ask myself: "Is this person trying to solve". It's why I hate Riku's slot/style so much, because the answer is an loud no, and yet the last two games I played with him, he flipped town. It gets really frusterating, because unless he just nonstops solves as a wolf, it makes him a coin flip each game, and dead weight otherwise. Vezok has brought some light to that slot, and I overall like his catch ups, but I want to see him start working live, before I start moving him to town.
He is doing enough where I don't want to lynch him today though. LnGrrr/Mind. Tom would be my fantasy/hero lynch, few others I would settle for.
I think you have my meta out of date as well. When I used to hunt more actively, I also used to jump to very... uninformed and/or wrong conclusions. I was doing the work, but not stopping to think about it hard enough. Actually, that might be what I did with you jsut then: I saw you doing things D1, had that meta in my head (didn't bother stopping to check to see if it was still relevent) and jumped to a conclusion based on that. That's how I used to play mafia, and that's why my reads were always so wrong.
So I've started taking a step back, trying to analyze a bit more. That's probably why my playstyle looks a bit different.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@KJ
You mention in your response to GJ that it makes no sense for them to be so confident of their scum read on you, being as early in the game as it is. Yet, you locked me as scum as early as my second post back around page two and have actively led a charge on me. You’ve never fleshed our that case, what makes that different than what you’re claiming GJ is doing to you?
Alright not ready to talk about gj rn beyond officially stating a pretty strong read i need to spend some time with
I feel a bit better about my overall sorting.
DV and rodemy are just town.
Prolly vaimes
Prolly last as well
Also i had good feels on ruma and vezok looks to be pretty agendaless in catchup
Grape and kj are partners or both town. Prolly both town (begrudgingly for grape).
If they *are* both town that increases likelihood that one of the neighbors is scum just by setupgaming. More likely etr for some reasons already stated plus taus gambit doesnt make a whole lot of sense from scum
Can see tubba or kami in some worlds, but they can both have done [respective scummy actions in those worlds] as town too.
Lngrr/rhand not much different really. In theory ive liked some posts from all 4 (not sure thats actually true for kami but i digress) and i doubt any of the 4 is out of their scum or town ranges.
Updated rainbow: DV/rod
vaimes
kj+grape
last/vezok
tau/kami/tubba
etr/rhand/lngrr
mind
GJ?
The light green and gold is essentially a really large null tier split into two. Which is fine for day 1 i guess.
Cannot see kj without grape at all. And would have to be quite the planned out thing to be w/w. Simplest explanation is v/v and grape just forgot how to town.
Yeah sure im good with that. Next couple days is the big push to make this show happen. Doubt ill see the sun til friday when rehearsals start. So, like, catch yall later
Ka can be town. I doubt he fights such a stupid fight as scum. He actually believes what he is saying and I am certain that scum don't try to push a town lynch day 1 just cause.
Tubba is nullish town. He's too absent, but I've seen some town glimpses.
Dv and GJ are both town.
Mindreaver is probably my second scumread. His posts just seem agenda driven, but tom attacking him makes me ho "huh".
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It's possible he would have slipped but meh. Him finding time to comment on both my wall and KJs is a half eyebrow raise but apparently I've just been objectively scummy.
I think this is the dumbest gambit I've ever seen. If etr is scum there is no way he believes he has a neighbour chat with another lone scum and he most certainly doesn't just out the scumteam. That should have been easy and both would have been town, but etr's follow-up and lw's random raging might mean there's more under the surface. Etr should be THE vig target just because of this cluster****.
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You should read the whole thread, note down posts, and comment on them after, because there's a chance they will be answered, or your stance will change
@vezok
Okay, talk me through the scenario's. What's EtR thinking as town? What's EtR thinking as scum? What's EtR thinking as WIFOM'ing scum?
The whole thing is a mess.
Vaimes is now up there with any of my high townie reads after reviewing his back and forth with LW. Also willing to lock in an unaligned read there. I don't think Vaimes is ever able to make 1211 to a scum buddy.
1227 is a weird post... The mindset behind "I think you are town so I hope you are a PR" is not one that groks to me. Maybe the whole thing is a joke, but it's still a very strange perspective.
Definitely not able to lock in the GJ/Rhand unaligned read that I talked about earlier. The exchange didn't feel like two pressured scum buddies but it also doesn't rule out the possibility.
Scum EtR laughs at the gambit and either ignores it or humors him with bad reads to spread wifom.
No idea why town etr backtracks on the questions. Scum etr either tries to spread more wifom with that move or about 0.1% that he actually falls for it and tries to muddy the waters.
There's also the distinct possibility that Tau is actually lone scum and this gambit is just him trying to signal that to the scum team.
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@Mod and Everyone. I WILL BE V/LA ALL NEXT WEEK.
Clearly, that isn't the case. If I was as obvious as you seem to think, would I not be vying for a big wagon? And I don't consider tom's vote to be real. He is either a wolf, or just outright throwing. I'll repeat myself again: You are using an outdated meta read on me, instead of thinking why I could be getting reads the way I am. I am also very self aware of my meta, and both metas cover a wide area.
I went back to the roots on my time at MU. The entire question of who I am wolf reading or not comes down to the question: Do I think you are trying to solve the game? And the grey area is why do I think you care about other people's alignment vs why I think that person isn't wolf hunting, PR hints/outs aside.
That's my approach to this game. I feel like you try to hunt a lot more actively in my view, and I feel like you are slanking. I feel like the outing of grape with neither of you under pressure felt suspect, but not enough where I would be willing to try and wagon you, because honestly, you self resolve. Elsewhere, I have my reasons, and rarely do I use meta to use it. I basically ask myself: "Is this person trying to solve". It's why I hate Riku's slot/style so much, because the answer is an loud no, and yet the last two games I played with him, he flipped town. It gets really frusterating, because unless he just nonstops solves as a wolf, it makes him a coin flip each game, and dead weight otherwise. Vezok has brought some light to that slot, and I overall like his catch ups, but I want to see him start working live, before I start moving him to town.
He is doing enough where I don't want to lynch him today though. LnGrrr/Mind. Tom would be my fantasy/hero lynch, few others I would settle for.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Townies, consolidate on a wagon please! It is time to start figuring this stuff out.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I don't know why I keep town reading low posters when I skim their ISO's, feels like a bad habit.
What's your view on Mind then?
And if it's town, who do you want to wagon?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
As for who I want to wagon 1 of EtR, KA, Tom, and Rhand.
That about right?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Sort of. I'm not building teams for the most part, just finding scummy people. Though I do like to rule out teams if I can. I don't have you and tom as buddies, just both independently scummy. As for EtR I am quite sure both villagers and wolves have voted him and am just going to focus on the EtR part of it till I'm more confident on his alignment.
Like KA and EtR are basically never buddies but at this point I think they both are scummy.
There is a difference between finding interactions between people and putting teams together and voting hand in hand with a wolf read. I know you are smarter than this.
And I can't really shade you. I can just lol at you at this point really. But ask yourself this question: Do you think Mind or LnGrrr are really trying to solve the game, or appear to be? You made a point for LnGrrr, try mind now.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
There are too many wolf reads. Apathy is way too high for day 1. We need to end the day, and hope for some spicy abilities/night kills. LnGrrr/Mind/Tubba/Etr. NOt moving from there.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Tau had decent tone before that wave, so I kind of like that slot. And there are people who are far wolfier that are also slanking.
slots admittedly falling, which is making it hard as decent town reads are already hard to come by.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Not saying I'm there, ive only been skimming since i went v/la and would want to do my due dilligence and maybe figure out how to articulate it in some kind of way that makes sense to people other than me if it still holds but...
Currently what im feeling pretty strongly
Considering you have seen me wolf, and wolfed with me, this is a laughably bad read, and it's getting real hard to think you are legit wolf reading me htat you are willing to get dunked day 2.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Like, at this point everyone is just going back and forth.
Thoughts
Tubba: I haven't like his posts but I'm willing to barn those that are town reading him presently.
Grape: I still haven't loved his posts but without a counter claim of some sort, will leave him as town
KA: Lean town. As I said in my vote review, I don't know how he can be so confident about me and yet so wrong without being town.
Reverb: Null read. Gambit leans town trying to trap dumb scum, but I don't have a lot to say beyond that.
LW: Town: I've gone back and forth on this one, but overall, I've liked the posts. Specifically the arguments with other players. The frustration reads as true.
EtR: Town
Rodemy: Very different play from Ghostbusters. Feels town.
D_V: I think D_V is bringing something very different than in GB, but not in a way that feels bad. I like this D_V for town.
Vaimes: Lean scum. I'm not getting a lot of positive vibes from his reads and the most recent back and forth with LW did not feel super townie.
Mind: Neutral - I don't see what everyone else does here. Nothing from Mind has specifically thrown me off but I'm willing to accept that my read is wrong. Like all of my reads in GB.
KJ: My KJ read is completely dependent on Grape's status. The idea that we have a Godfather in a mafia flavor game is something though.
Rhand: Scum
GJ: Lean town. I've disagreed with his reads, but nothing that I can't see from a town perspective
LngRrRrR: Scum. I believe that there are a lot of posts that read as disingenuous.
Vez: so far town. Ruma was so far removed that I never really established a good read on him so this is dependant wholly on the Vez read.
@tom you don't have that sort of credit with me but I'd still go along with that plan.
Mind reread happening pending work cooperating.
This is not true. I voted EtR for a very different (granted bad) reason: I thought he botched his claim. That had nothing to do with me deciding there’s a dichotomy, and I don’t think there is.
Turns out he didn’t botch his claim, and I did unvote when I realized my wrongness. (this happens after DV’s case though)
How did you figure I botched my claim? You really just threw shade. You also mention in your wrap up that you believe Tau and I are T/T. Can you explain where/how you got to that conclusion?
You're right, I guess it could actually go either way. If you are scum, that doesn't make KJ town, but it makes him less likely to be scum. If you are town, it doesn't move the needle either way. If KJ is scum you could be either. If KJ is town, same thing. So really I guess there is nothing that can be drawn from either flip from a true analysis standpoint.
What are you wondering about Vaimes and Mind? Are you looking for specific quotes?
To an extent. In a KJ wolf world, I would actually believe you were still town, and KJ was trying for credit. Super bold to tie ones self so close to a buddy, especially day 1.
Wolves bus each other by being the first vote on their wolf buddy, and running the wagon? I suggest you consider that more in the future, becuase when you question that, you really start questioning their reads. The simple answer is that you're right, they are busing. But that early, that parked? It is more likely you have a read wrong, figure out where.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I kinda like Johnny here, you’d need to make a case and stand behind it for me to consider it.
@LnGrr
This pretty necromantic, but I felt like GJ siccing D_V on Grape was very null. It didn’t seem like a real push.
@EtR
Who do you agree with on my towniness? I seem pretty high in your list for having no posts that you like.
I strongly disagree with your KJ analysis. If he flips scum then you can't fully draw conclusions about me, but it strongly suggests I'm scum. If he flips town and his role says that he learns the alignment of 1 player on N0 you know for a fact I'm town. If I were to flip scum it would say KJ isn't town, but my flipping town says nothing about his alignment.
The list isn’t in a particular order.
If he flips scum, it’s WIFOM.
Anyway I did a quick Mindreaver dive and meh. I don't see anything glaring either way. The end of the show down with DV feels slightly CFTWR, but a lot of townies come out of thunderdomes with DV looking that way. I still like the way he handled me in the early game and his pokes feel right. I just need more to be confident one way or another. If he's scum it's the sort I have a blind spot for till much later in the game (reasonable and polite). I'm not going to be leading that wagon but I'm not going to fight it either.
Vezok's catchup is fine. No outstanding "WTF" takes.
I think I need to skim reread some of my reads tonight.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Tau claimed town neighbour, you first said you were the same and later that you had no rolename and an extra ability unlock.
That seemed like a botched claim.
I’ll hunt for the post where I explained you’re likely t/t. The reason is that if you are t/s, the mod created a win more situation with the ability unlocks, which I doubt they’ve done.
Now can you explain why you think I am scum? You kake a list commenting on everyone, amd about me all you have to say is “scum”, but you do wnat me lynched most?
For etr
I'd also be against lynching either of the two as the scum will probably just shoot the other one now that they know they gain an ability
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@LnGrrrR tell me more about not liking the GJ/DV thing. I'm all ears.
I want to vote rhand, but I'm not yet convinced he is scum.
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GJ
You're not doing the thing that I thought maybe you were. So I will answer your questions etc. The Thing I was thinking of was I thought you were making posts to elicit reactions from us. If you were, I was thinking you might be town for it.
As it stands, like, some of the things you're saying I'm just kind of turning my head at. Things that I'm headtilting at include when you accused tom of being self-concious and you making a statement to Grape about it being "Bold to assume there's a scum roleblocker" which is a little shade-y towards someone you're townreading.
Anyway, on to responding to you.
See, this is partially what I mean. "How would you answer change etc." That whole line is nonsense.
And my role is literally what I claimed it was. I recieved info that Grape was town in the Pregame as well as his character name is the same as my least favorite Ninja Turtle.
And again "The lying about your ability only occurs if I think you're a wolf" I mean, duh. Of course I wouldn't be lying about my ability unless I was a wolf.
What would you expect a townie to do in this situation that I didn't? What were you looking for?
I'm just like... really confused why you think these things.
I agree that meta isn't the best, but thats why I rarely use it.
I am glad that it's out of date... but that doesn't change the basis of it.
You didn't act due to lack of info, but your level of certainty on me is more than I'd expect a person like you to have this early in the game.
There's a reason that meta was EVER accurate. Why aren't you seeing that?
No, you're not. You can only scumread people named Osie, Huntzilla, and people who mispronounce their names in podcasts. Its in the OP.
Because your levels of certainty, and what I percieved to be a disconnection between what you used to do as town and what you're doing now.
There's perhaps something to be said about you being more casual as town back then as well but that memory isn't as defined as you not doing things D1 because no info.
I think you have my meta out of date as well. When I used to hunt more actively, I also used to jump to very... uninformed and/or wrong conclusions. I was doing the work, but not stopping to think about it hard enough. Actually, that might be what I did with you jsut then: I saw you doing things D1, had that meta in my head (didn't bother stopping to check to see if it was still relevent) and jumped to a conclusion based on that. That's how I used to play mafia, and that's why my reads were always so wrong.
So I've started taking a step back, trying to analyze a bit more. That's probably why my playstyle looks a bit different.
That's because I didn't.
I'm townreading you because you're asking relevant questions and pushing stuff and making your voice heard.
Scum KJ is much more passive usually and his questions are bad.
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You mention in your response to GJ that it makes no sense for them to be so confident of their scum read on you, being as early in the game as it is. Yet, you locked me as scum as early as my second post back around page two and have actively led a charge on me. You’ve never fleshed our that case, what makes that different than what you’re claiming GJ is doing to you?
I feel a bit better about my overall sorting.
DV and rodemy are just town.
Prolly vaimes
Prolly last as well
Also i had good feels on ruma and vezok looks to be pretty agendaless in catchup
Grape and kj are partners or both town. Prolly both town (begrudgingly for grape).
If they *are* both town that increases likelihood that one of the neighbors is scum just by setupgaming. More likely etr for some reasons already stated plus taus gambit doesnt make a whole lot of sense from scum
Can see tubba or kami in some worlds, but they can both have done [respective scummy actions in those worlds] as town too.
Lngrr/rhand not much different really. In theory ive liked some posts from all 4 (not sure thats actually true for kami but i digress) and i doubt any of the 4 is out of their scum or town ranges.
Updated rainbow:
DV/rod
vaimes
kj+grape
last/vezok
tau/kami/tubba
etr/rhand/lngrr
mind
GJ?
The light green and gold is essentially a really large null tier split into two. Which is fine for day 1 i guess.
Cannot see kj without grape at all. And would have to be quite the planned out thing to be w/w. Simplest explanation is v/v and grape just forgot how to town.
Yeah sure im good with that. Next couple days is the big push to make this show happen. Doubt ill see the sun til friday when rehearsals start. So, like, catch yall later
Rhand (4): EtR, D_V, Vaimes, KamikazeArchon
KamikazeArchon (3): Rhand, LnGrrrR, Grapefruit21
LnGrrrR (3): Rodemy, Lastwhisper, Gentleman Johnny
EtR (2): M1ndreaver, Tubba Fett
Gentleman Johnny (2): Killjoy, tomsloger
Killjoy (1): Rumanshi
Not Voting (1): Reaverb Tau
V/LA: KamikazeArchon (March 8th - 10th), Rodemy (March 11th - 17th)
With 16 alive, it’s 9 to lynch. Deadline is on March 8th, 7 PM GMT. (54 h 30 min from this post!)
This feels like a pocket. I will come back with more thoughts after finishing this page.
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Tom is more likely scum than not.
Lw is null.
Rhand is my top scumread.
Ka can be town. I doubt he fights such a stupid fight as scum. He actually believes what he is saying and I am certain that scum don't try to push a town lynch day 1 just cause.
Tubba is nullish town. He's too absent, but I've seen some town glimpses.
Dv and GJ are both town.
Mindreaver is probably my second scumread. His posts just seem agenda driven, but tom attacking him makes me ho "huh".
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Yeah sorry, but this is town.
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