I don't understand the big deal with confirming Ecophagy's item working. There's 1 mafia. LnGrrrR and Ecophagy cannot both be lying.
If LnG tries to send a message and it doesn't work, then Eco is a scum fake inventor, giving out "gifts" that don't actually function. If the message comes through as expected, it doesn't clear anyone, but on the off chance that it doesn't work, it's an easy win.
I have not yet gotten a message if you tried to send it to me, LnG.
Just sent it to GF. (Reminder, it is currently 5 PM for me.)
Wasn't trying to rush you or anything. You just said you'd send it "tonight (real world)", and that was 11 hours ago and I didn't know what time of day it was for you when you posted the original.
I don't encounter scum Inventors too often. Does anyone know if they're typically forced to target only villagers? Dunno why scum!Eco would otherwise waste a Watcher shot on their first NK victim instead of giving it to a vanilla buddy.
I don't understand the big deal with confirming Ecophagy's item working. There's 1 mafia. LnGrrrR and Ecophagy cannot both be lying.
If LnG tries to send a message and it doesn't work, then Eco is a scum fake inventor, giving out "gifts" that don't actually function. If the message comes through as expected, it doesn't clear anyone, but on the off chance that it doesn't work, it's an easy win.
Oh wait, I'm sorry, I'm dumb. I missed the part where LnGrrrR could PM during the day. Yeah, no, that makes more sense.
So wait, Ecophagy, do you have any idea what sort of abilities you can grant, or was that list not given to you?
I don't encounter scum Inventors too often. Does anyone know if they're typically forced to target only villagers? Dunno why scum!Eco would otherwise waste a Watcher shot on their first NK victim instead of giving it to a vanilla buddy.
The item worked; I got a message from LnG.
Rhand (at least, maybe Tom? whatever) suggested that scum!Eco could have given Cheesecake the watcher item specifically to buy town pants without actually putting a useful item in the hands of town. I have no idea how often scum inventors are forced to target only town, but I know that when they're not, it's often a debate as to whether they should target a buddy (get the item but then have to defend the choice later if it comes to light) or target town (gain town pants but give town more tools).
Still haven't had time to dive back in, but I will, I promise!
Yeah, that was one thing I agreed with Rhand about. And getting a Day message as an item is super snooze; I could buy that he disposed of the Watcher shot N1 for cred and gave out a useless item just now on purpose.
A roleblocker/tracker, a likely protective role, and apparently a ******* inventor who gives track shots against two goons with a singleton roleblocker, plus whatever tom is claiming to be.
...how did GJ know we had an inventor at this point? I'm drawing a blank as to what would have indicated that to him in-thread...?
Oh right, you Brits. Had a UK friend in college that would turn beet red every time someone mentioned pants. We were pretty merciless, too. Just for you: "to buy town trousers".
...how did GJ know we had an inventor at this point? I'm drawing a blank as to what would have indicated that to him in-thread...?
I'm assuming they guessed that Cheesecake Watch shot came from someone, otherwise he'd have been listed as a Watcher, not Vanilla. Plus an outside chance I got rolecopped.
So having reread Eco, I'm still coming out with a decent townread, because I haven't learned to let go of suffering yet. Some highlights feat. eternal silent screaming:
Townies are dumb? It's not like I think it was a townie thing to do, or that there was a good reason for it, but I think fishing (and especially the obvious kind that is essentially asking "power roles please raise your hands") is within the same set of scumtells as OMGUS and WIFOM - things people like to vote over but are very low-value as scum tells.
Buddy 1 asking Buddy 2 about Buddy 3 makes me lean ever so slightly towards "this isn't the exact scumteam."
Plus, it's such a snippy response that I'm soulreading it as town.
(Sorry, I have nested quotes turned off because they've been annoying me for YEARS. Click for full context etc.)
I like LnGrrR's examination of GJ's (lack of) vote. I find it slightly unsettling that he hasn't voted (as the only not-absent person to not attmept a vote), and I'm not really on board with these strong town read's GJ has been accruing.
Both Eco and LnGR expressed some doubts about GJ being town D1, which is annoying. Independent of that headache, I otherwise like this post. I'll like it more if it's followed up on.
All of Shadow, Cantrip, and LnGrrR being town is a big call. What are the key indicators in your mind that it's all a big town hoohah? Who would be the scum around the edges of it?
Also how come I get both a light town read and a light scum read?
This is in response to GJ. +town for Eco, as it could be that GJ is trying to lump a buddy in with other villagers. Complaining that GJ is town- and scumreading him is a slight -, but this is mostly in the context of scum having no Daychat, which I'm still assuming is true.
I don't completely hate Vezok's entrance. I mean, more posts and detail are required obviously, but I don't really expect scum to replace in and immediately pick up a hard defense of Highroller. It would be a million times easier and less controvesial to just list HR as null or support the wagon or whatever.
eeeeeeeeeh, blah blah blah this looks bad if there's no Daychat blah. It's kind of a null thought, but it still bugs me that I can't get a definite feeling for it because it could very easily be coaching.
Last time I played with them as scum was in the Secret Neighbours Micro where I very quickly got him lynched because he was being overly non-commital and passive. So that's obviously not what's happened here, which is a pretty good look for Vezok.
Okay, I should probably stop making assumptions about scumchat. Because on the one hand, without Daychat there's no way that Eco and vezok could have orchestrated vezok's entrance from a completely different angle to offset his scum meta.
In general I just dig Eco's approach to his shadow scumread, and eventual Highroller defense. Definitely get the sense that Eco's working his brain here.
However, Riku's posts to me look more like someone who is trying to play to a scummy meta than is actually being scummy. His opening is almost like he forgot that's what he was planning on doing, and stuff like just posting "hmmmmmm" with no context or followup and attacking LnGrrR for asking him to explain a read (when, you know, LnGrrR is a pretty easy person to attack for more sensible sounding reasons) is cartoonishly over the top. To the extent, in fact, that I'm comfortable sliding him into the town column, and would definitely suggest that he isn't worth lynching toDay. It's a bit of a WIFOM argument since he could be doing it on purpose as scum, but I think in that case he'd have done it right from the start - not opened the game with some decent posts.
I don't really want to jump straight to believing a counter claim from the person I'm currently voting, but I do agree that a coinless Tracker + whatever Tom claims to be + an alignment cop + Cheesecake's Watch shot is really too much investigative power for a Mini. I'm not really sure why Tom as scum would counterclaim here and sacrifice himself for Vezok. I'm also not really sure why Vezok as scum would have investigated Riku as town when he could have, say, claimed to have investigated his top-scum-read Cheesecake.
God, I don't know if this is towny or coaching. Coaching would only happen if scum agreed that vezok would claim a check on Cheese, but then he randomly switched to Riku. Or this is just distancing.
I really would have liked to have voted there. vote Vezok in case it matters.
LnGrrR do really you think Vez could possibly self hammer and flip town??
Want to say that Eco publicly lamenting his lack of coins is +town.
Anyways.
Unvote, vote LnGR
It doesn't really matter to me because I'm town, we have two lynches left, and there's only two unchecked players. But I know if we mislynch toDay y'all are gonna make me work up a sweat in LyLo and I'd really rather just win toDay.
I will note that I am not independently scumreading LnGR either. This game doesn't really make sense to me, but Cop checks are Cop checks, and it seems like 2019 just isn't gonna be a stellar year for me reads-wise.
Unlikely, with vezok flipping half Vanilla Cop. Unless LnGR is a Backup of sorts.
I'm not so sure - Vezok's Vanilla cop is relatively weak since it should miss Rich townies, and at 2 coins it's very expensive. So I'm wondering if Vezok was the backup scum information role: useful in a pinch but not enough to be the primary source of role huting.
I don't think Vezok would miss Rich VT, since the same went for Tom.
@all, I think the right move might be to let me by the lynch. This is pending a reread and finding some slam dunk evidence, but here is why.
From my viewpoint, barring some Godfather shenanigans (which would be HR if anyone, btw), then it can only be Vaimes or Eco.
I think it makes sense to leave Eco alive toDay, to test his gift giving. Maybe he gives out a cop shot or something that just wouldn't make sense at all as scum.
If Eco is the lynch today, it likely comes down to Vaimes and I tomorrow, and I don't want to be the last mislynch. I will have to have faith in town to decide between Eco and Vaimes toMorrow, and I think that is a much fairer battle.
If the majority wants to go through with this, let me know. Just give me time to make cases against Vaimes and Eco.
Maybe I'm dumb and not understanding tom's role, but I don't see how a Godfather would work in this setup. They wouldn't come back as just town, but Vanilla Town, and that feels kinda bastard-y.
I don't think Vezok would miss Rich VT, since the same went for Tom.
I don't actually know if it would be better for scum if a rich townie showed as vanilla or not-vanilla. The former leaves scum surprised when they claim not (totally) vanilla, but the latter risks the scum spending kills on a functional vanilla. This mostly reinforces my position that Vezok's investigative role was very weak.
Vote LnGrrrR. Down to Cantrip/HR to get what they need out and end the Day.
RE: Godfather: I just don't see why Vezok would claim cop if they had a GF since he'd know he'd be walking into a counterclaim. Which would be stupid. That with the other rules weirdness of how it would be phrased to work means I'm very not interested in entertaining the possibility.
Sleepycheesecake seems worse and worse. Rhand too. Highroller is straight town. Tom also. I find him really transparent compared to his usual game.
Gj's interactions with Vaimes feel really forced. If he thinks vaimes is scum and my slot is also scum there is no way you convince him to join the lurker wagon. Seems really disingineous.
I think I'm somewhere around.
Cantrip/tom/highroller town
Eco/shadow townie
Riku more town than neutral
Vaimes neutral
Gj/lrrrgr scummy
Sleepycheesecake/rhand scum
Gj and lrrrgr should not be on the same position, but I have no idea how to split them. I liked a bit of the last posts from lrrgr which was surprising. It looked like trying to pocket tom, but at the same time it was too verbose to not look like a real defense on a slot he considers town or at least not scum for the reasons presented.
vote rhand
I'd actually vote for cheesecake, but rhand seems to have more steam. Maybe I'll switch.
My primary observation is that it looks like Vezok was struggling to town read his buddies. Whether that's because he felt he couldn't justify it or if it was intentional distancing is difficult to say. Given that at the time GJ was a popular town read, Vaimes is generally easy to call town, and general opinion was moving away from LnG being scum - and he placed all of them at neutral or worse, I'd say it looks a lot more like deliberate distancing.
I think between LnG and Vaimes it looks worse for LnG, since Vezok feels the need to explain why they shouldn't be in the same place, which is odd because they weren't NKA or anything. It reads like he tried to come to some organic reads, realised he's stuck two of his buddies at the same level (and "scummy but not scummy enough to be voted" is a common place to see scum put buddies), and felt the need to justify that. In particular, he's clearly committed to the GJ bus, and offers some weak mitigating factors for LnG that opens Vezok up to moving LnG up his list.
The Vaimes stuff is less conclusive. I think if GJ and Vaimes were Vezok's buddies he'd take the opportunity to more strongly town read Vaimes. Although if the scum really don't have Day talk then maybe it was Vezok trying to tell GJ to stop avoiding voting his buddies that he's scum reading.
I was inspired to have a look through Vezok's posts for any other interactions with Vaimes and LnG, but there weren't really any interesting ones. The best is probably #1106 where Vezok admonishes both of them for voting him after Tom claimed. This would be significantly more useful if he'd mentioned anyone else instead of one of them, but it's the sort of snark that could definitely be directed at a buddy that Vezok is cross at for being snap voted by. The additional singling out of Vaimes is maybe indicative of him being the buddy Vezok is annoyed at, but that's pretty tenuous.
I'm re-reading through at the moment, trying to collect thoughts, but so far besides a few "Hmmm" type posts there isn't a lot out there that I can point to as an "A-ha!" moment. Whoever is the last scum is playing pretty well.
I'm re-reading through at the moment, trying to collect thoughts, but so far besides a few "Hmmm" type posts there isn't a lot out there that I can point to as an "A-ha!" moment. Whoever is the last scum is playing pretty well.
tbh I think it's mostly because the game has been on auto-pilot since Tom counterclaimed Vezok. No-one has had to really think that hard since then so there's not that much genuine content to analyse.
Had a look through GJ's ISO for references to Vaimes and LnGrrrR, and there is a decent amount of interaction but not a lot of solving (GJ didn't actually do that much solving on anyone). Broadly, LnGrrrR is listed as a townish read for "TWTBAW", whereas he treats Vaimes as a borderline scum read - not enough to ever get voted or actually analysed, but enough to be in the pool. These are most clearly captured in #672. I'm actually struggling to get anything particularly interesting - I think #1133 and #430 are neat because he mentions both of them in the same post, but the stances are consistent and I don't know how indicative they really are. I generally get the impression that GJ knows that as scum you need to interact a lot with everyone including your buddies.
As something of an aside, I'm still surprised that GJ and Vezok were scum together. It's one thing to call the non-poster-who-is-your-buddy scum for distancing, but it's another thing entirely to call name their replacment your top scum read and vote them. Given that the scum strategy seems to have been based pretty heavily on distancing/bussing then I'd say Vaimes looks worse off given that GJ repeatedly named him as a suspect but never dug into it. But GJ didn't really dig into his scum read on Rhand or Highroller either, so it's not an earth-shattering revelation.
Looking through these ISOs has made me more nervous about Vaimes, but I still think that individually speaking Vaimes has been the less scummy of the two (mostly down to LnGrrrR's enthusiasm to solve the Tom/Eco "dichotomy", and Tom's reliable read on Vaimes). Ultimately though, it doesn't matter to me which order we lynch them in.
Argh, I haven't been able to devote nearly as much time as I should have to this. The 418 that Highroller posed (where Vez put GJ and LnG on the same tier) was actually one of the things that made me think it more likely that LnG was town, as who puts both their scumbuddies there, but that's still wifom-based.
I've been (slowly) working my way through the thread. If I don't have something more significant to communicate than the above by tomorrow, I'll plan on voting LnG so we can either win or go to final 3. Sorry for being a slacker.
I've been (slowly) working my way through the thread. If I don't have something more significant to communicate than the above by tomorrow, I'll plan on voting LnG so we can either win or go to final 3. Sorry for being a slacker.
Nah, dude, we're in the endgame here. You're not slacking.
Rereading this game with the two highest posters still being in the PoE is draining. Part of my frustration is that if we mislynch LnG or Vaimes toDay, I'm afraid that my paranoia is going to outweigh any logic I might be able to apply to the gamestate the next Day (if I'm even alive) and I'm just going to go "lol unbalanced setup" and lynch Eco. So can we have a more in-depth conversation (excluding the wifom GJ introduced with his rage post) about the setup as we know it? I'm not fond of setup-gaming, but if it's an easy path this game...
I'm counting HR and myself as confirmed because if Tom was misled by HR it's lol-gg. Am I correct that we have:
Town
Tom (1-coin Vanilla Town Cop, checked HR N1, checked GJ(?) N2, checked Cantrip N3)
Rumanshi (No-cost Tracker, 2-coin Roleblock, tracked HR N1, roleblocked GJ N2)
2x Rich Vanilla Town (Rhand, Cantrip)
3x Vanilla Town (Shadow, Cheesecake, Highroller)
If all three of Eco, Vaimes, and LnG are telling the truth (which I think is possible, perhaps not probable), is it possible that Eco is town? Alternatively, can Eco be town if one of Vaimes or LnG are scum and lying?
In other news, I...am leaning a particular direction based on gut. I'm trying to see if I can demonstrate what I'm feeling, but I'd like to talk about setup a bit more, first.
@Vaimes: Quick question while I'm here: What were you referring to here?
Your question has no answer beyond the one I gave in the quote.
Partly it.
Partly was when we had our little rambo off, I felt like it was townies bashing into each other. So cantrip/shadow/lngrr/ I have as townie (slightly hesitant on Eco). Other people I am town reading or null reading for different reasons.
I almost I feel like Azrael is wolfy, mostly because I feel like I am scraping the barrel to come up with 3 people that can be wolves. Still early though.
Lacking strong wolf reads right now. Light wolf reads on you/Highroller, slightly lighter on eco and rhand. But different meta than the quick and run I have gotten more accustom to. Moire used to just spitballing ideas, and interacting in almost real time. Trying to analyze posts after they have been dealt with for a while is tougher when other people have already commented on it.
But I know I can get stuck on stuff that isn't nearly as alignment indicative as I want it to be. Am I reading too much into GJ putting Eco in his "slightly hesitant town" pile and then also giving Eco a light wolf read?
I have not yet gotten a message if you tried to send it to me, LnG.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I don't encounter scum Inventors too often. Does anyone know if they're typically forced to target only villagers? Dunno why scum!Eco would otherwise waste a Watcher shot on their first NK victim instead of giving it to a vanilla buddy.
So wait, Ecophagy, do you have any idea what sort of abilities you can grant, or was that list not given to you?
Rhand (at least, maybe Tom? whatever) suggested that scum!Eco could have given Cheesecake the watcher item specifically to buy town pants without actually putting a useful item in the hands of town. I have no idea how often scum inventors are forced to target only town, but I know that when they're not, it's often a debate as to whether they should target a buddy (get the item but then have to defend the choice later if it comes to light) or target town (gain town pants but give town more tools).
Still haven't had time to dive back in, but I will, I promise!
Eh. You don't say.
I know they're all one shot and low complexity, and I suspect they're mostly fairly weak. But I don't know the exact list.
Will give items for trousers
I'm assuming they guessed that Cheesecake Watch shot came from someone, otherwise he'd have been listed as a Watcher, not Vanilla. Plus an outside chance I got rolecopped.
Only scum wear pants. Townies wear trousers.
Possible that he just inferred an Inventor exists. Possible that the Inventor is scum and he was trying to wine their alignment.
Plus, it's such a snippy response that I'm soulreading it as town.
(Sorry, I have nested quotes turned off because they've been annoying me for YEARS. Click for full context etc.) Both Eco and LnGR expressed some doubts about GJ being town D1, which is annoying. Independent of that headache, I otherwise like this post. I'll like it more if it's followed up on. This is in response to GJ. +town for Eco, as it could be that GJ is trying to lump a buddy in with other villagers. Complaining that GJ is town- and scumreading him is a slight -, but this is mostly in the context of scum having no Daychat, which I'm still assuming is true. eeeeeeeeeh, blah blah blah this looks bad if there's no Daychat blah. It's kind of a null thought, but it still bugs me that I can't get a definite feeling for it because it could very easily be coaching. Okay, I should probably stop making assumptions about scumchat. Because on the one hand, without Daychat there's no way that Eco and vezok could have orchestrated vezok's entrance from a completely different angle to offset his scum meta.
In general I just dig Eco's approach to his shadow scumread, and eventual Highroller defense. Definitely get the sense that Eco's working his brain here. I really like this. God, I don't know if this is towny or coaching. Coaching would only happen if scum agreed that vezok would claim a check on Cheese, but then he randomly switched to Riku. Or this is just distancing. Slip or derp? Who knows whee. I saw this during my Eco dive and just wanted to include it to make myself feel marginally better about moving my vote. Want to say that Eco publicly lamenting his lack of coins is +town.
Anyways.
Unvote, vote LnGR
It doesn't really matter to me because I'm town, we have two lynches left, and there's only two unchecked players. But I know if we mislynch toDay y'all are gonna make me work up a sweat in LyLo and I'd really rather just win toDay.
The answer is "not really lol" but like I said, posting about wanting coins is something I don't really see scum doing.
I'm not so sure - Vezok's Vanilla cop is relatively weak since it should miss Rich townies, and at 2 coins it's very expensive. So I'm wondering if Vezok was the backup scum information role: useful in a pinch but not enough to be the primary source of role huting.
@all, I think the right move might be to let me by the lynch. This is pending a reread and finding some slam dunk evidence, but here is why.
From my viewpoint, barring some Godfather shenanigans (which would be HR if anyone, btw), then it can only be Vaimes or Eco.
I think it makes sense to leave Eco alive toDay, to test his gift giving. Maybe he gives out a cop shot or something that just wouldn't make sense at all as scum.
If Eco is the lynch today, it likely comes down to Vaimes and I tomorrow, and I don't want to be the last mislynch. I will have to have faith in town to decide between Eco and Vaimes toMorrow, and I think that is a much fairer battle.
If the majority wants to go through with this, let me know. Just give me time to make cases against Vaimes and Eco.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
On a better note, I am finally in recovery from a 48 hour virus that was kicking my butt, so I should have something this weekend. Yay!
While I am waiting, anyone bored enough to entertain HR=godfather idea? I really have no clue when/how godfathers are most often used.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Yeah, Godfathers check as town, but it would be totally dishonest to have them check Vanilla Town when they're technically a power role.
I don't actually know if it would be better for scum if a rich townie showed as vanilla or not-vanilla. The former leaves scum surprised when they claim not (totally) vanilla, but the latter risks the scum spending kills on a functional vanilla. This mostly reinforces my position that Vezok's investigative role was very weak.
Vote LnGrrrR. Down to Cantrip/HR to get what they need out and end the Day.
RE: Godfather: I just don't see why Vezok would claim cop if they had a GF since he'd know he'd be walking into a counterclaim. Which would be stupid. That with the other rules weirdness of how it would be phrased to work means I'm very not interested in entertaining the possibility.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I'll be pretty V/LA this weekend.
Please don't lynch LnG quite yet.
What do you all make of this post?
I think between LnG and Vaimes it looks worse for LnG, since Vezok feels the need to explain why they shouldn't be in the same place, which is odd because they weren't NKA or anything. It reads like he tried to come to some organic reads, realised he's stuck two of his buddies at the same level (and "scummy but not scummy enough to be voted" is a common place to see scum put buddies), and felt the need to justify that. In particular, he's clearly committed to the GJ bus, and offers some weak mitigating factors for LnG that opens Vezok up to moving LnG up his list.
The Vaimes stuff is less conclusive. I think if GJ and Vaimes were Vezok's buddies he'd take the opportunity to more strongly town read Vaimes. Although if the scum really don't have Day talk then maybe it was Vezok trying to tell GJ to stop avoiding voting his buddies that he's scum reading.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
tbh I think it's mostly because the game has been on auto-pilot since Tom counterclaimed Vezok. No-one has had to really think that hard since then so there's not that much genuine content to analyse.
Right now going with LnGrrrR, then Vaimes. Want to reread days 2-4 before I commit to that.
Cantrip, did you say you were rereading? Find anything?
LnGrrrR (2): Vaimes, Eco
Not voting (3): Cantripmancer, Highroller, LnGrrrR
Prods have been sent. Please don't play to the minimum requirements.
As something of an aside, I'm still surprised that GJ and Vezok were scum together. It's one thing to call the non-poster-who-is-your-buddy scum for distancing, but it's another thing entirely to call name their replacment your top scum read and vote them. Given that the scum strategy seems to have been based pretty heavily on distancing/bussing then I'd say Vaimes looks worse off given that GJ repeatedly named him as a suspect but never dug into it. But GJ didn't really dig into his scum read on Rhand or Highroller either, so it's not an earth-shattering revelation.
Looking through these ISOs has made me more nervous about Vaimes, but I still think that individually speaking Vaimes has been the less scummy of the two (mostly down to LnGrrrR's enthusiasm to solve the Tom/Eco "dichotomy", and Tom's reliable read on Vaimes). Ultimately though, it doesn't matter to me which order we lynch them in.
I'm ready to go go go.
I've been (slowly) working my way through the thread. If I don't have something more significant to communicate than the above by tomorrow, I'll plan on voting LnG so we can either win or go to final 3. Sorry for being a slacker.
Nah, dude, we're in the endgame here. You're not slacking.
y'all
(Rhand kinda objected but he didn't propose lynching elsewhere.)
I'm counting HR and myself as confirmed because if Tom was misled by HR it's lol-gg. Am I correct that we have:
Town
Tom (1-coin Vanilla Town Cop, checked HR N1, checked GJ(?) N2, checked Cantrip N3)
Rumanshi (No-cost Tracker, 2-coin Roleblock, tracked HR N1, roleblocked GJ N2)
2x Rich Vanilla Town (Rhand, Cantrip)
3x Vanilla Town (Shadow, Cheesecake, Highroller)
Unknown
Eco (Claimed 1-coin Random 1-Shot Gifter, crumbed early, gave Cheesecake a Watcher item N1, didn't have coins for N2 or N3, gave LnG a Day Message N4)
Vaimes (Claimed VT)
LnG (Claimed Rich VT)
Scum
Vezok (2-coin Vanilla Cop, 1-coin Roleblock, possibly copped Vezok N1)
GJ (Rich Vanilla Mafia)
If all three of Eco, Vaimes, and LnG are telling the truth (which I think is possible, perhaps not probable), is it possible that Eco is town? Alternatively, can Eco be town if one of Vaimes or LnG are scum and lying?
In other news, I...am leaning a particular direction based on gut. I'm trying to see if I can demonstrate what I'm feeling, but I'd like to talk about setup a bit more, first.
@Vaimes: Quick question while I'm here: What were you referring to here?
But I know I can get stuck on stuff that isn't nearly as alignment indicative as I want it to be. Am I reading too much into GJ putting Eco in his "slightly hesitant town" pile and then also giving Eco a light wolf read?