"Covert intelligence involves a lot of waiting around. Know what it's like being a spy? Like sitting in your dentist's reception area twenty-four hours a day. You read magazines, sip coffee, and every so often, someone tries to kill you."
Are you in a bad mood or something Cantrip? You're being kind of snippy, but I don't really associate that with you as either alignment under the current very minimal pressure you're under.
I'm not trying to be snippy. It's the opposite: I feel pretty manic and stoked. I just got done messaging Grape how much fun I'm having. If I'm making things less fun for you, please tell me and I'll scale it back (same goes for anyone else). I just....feel really freaking confident and stoked! Which is...eh...probably a bad sign for my reads, I guess, because I'm not usually on the mark as town, but I just don't care because this game is going to be AWESOME!!! (Seriously, reread posts 14, 15, 17, 19, 33, 34, 43, 49, 53, and 55 and tell me you're not absolutely LOVING the positivity and easygoing fun going on here.)
EWP: @Shadow: Interesting comment. Why would town!me care about masking my alignment?
@Cantrip, not sure you read me right. I meant that I am confident enough to where, if I am mislynched, people will take the time to look at my wagon and analyze scum. Scum who vote me won't be able hide behind a "You can't blame me for jumping on him, he was obvious scum, right town?!?" excuse.
@cantrip: because it will work better for your overall gameplay in the long run? Do you not think like that?
Eh, yes, I guess I do, but very very secondarily to the game in progress? Like...if I can improve my overall chances as either alignment for future games, that's frosting on the cake, but *only* if it's frosting and doesn't make it less likely that I win the game. It struck me as odd that you'd say "maybe Cantrip is doing this thing that would make it harder for the players who have proven they can read him to read him...and that could come from either alignment." But I will accept this response.
FWIW (straight from this horse's mouth, since you can obviously just take my word for it), I'm not trying to mask my alignment. Just enjoying myself more than I anticipated (because of [redacted]).
@LnG: No, I read you right. I'm asking if you think I'm scum because of what I'm attacking you for. And:
Quote from Cantripmancer »
How does whatever you might gain from #1 outweigh the potential information that scum could gain (not specific roles, but who is more/less likely to be power)?
@Cantrip... no? Because... I already said I thought you were strident (ly wrong) town?
I don't know if the info I might gain would be more useful to me than scum. That's why it is up to each person to decide if they want to share or not. I feel that goes with any sort of non-L-2 claim though.
@Rhand:Eh, your attack was rather underwhelming and felt a bit like cherry picking when I've posted so much more than the one quote you provided, but sure.
Sure, but even if he did, asking "who thinks they have the most complicated role" is still fishing, and bad. And I'm pretty sure he knows better, eh? Like, the first attempt ("any way to donate coins in this game") I could have seen as somewhat innocent, pro-town. But this isn't.
But you feel like it was more likely an innocent mistake, eh?
This post is why I don't think Cantrip is doing this from a town!mindset.
He says "And I'm pretty sure he knows better, eh?", which means he assumes Lngr knows fishing is bad. In that case, Lngr would never make that post as scum. Ergo, he is town. And Cantrip knows it but chooses to push him for it anyways.
My brain tries to reconcile "fishing is bad" with "LnG is experienced enough to know that". It doesn't feel like a choice that logically comes from either alignment, so it then becomes a question of which is more likely, that town!LnG was having funsies and accidentally posted a question that could have provided free information to the scum, or that scum!LnG got nervous and encouraged (or discouraged) by the lack of response to the first mild fishing question and pushed it further, confident that he could wriggle out from under it if he came under pressure. I feel like it's more likely the latter.
@LnG: 1) Sorry, I must have missed you calling me town. 2) If you're town, I have to disagree with your thought process completely. A town player floating a general "hey, anyone want to offer up free information in-thread? You can participate or not!" question is helping the scum team TWICE by both fishing for info AND attracting attention for said fishing. There are better ways to generate conversation/search for reads, imo. And asking an accross-the-board question to everyone that you don't actually expect everyone to answer is...counter-intuitive.
@Cantrip, I think you're not taking into account that I also let others know that I would be willing to donate coins if there is a way to do that. Thankfully, this game does have a way to message people anonymously, so if that role exists, they can ping me that way if they care to.
@Cantrip, also, you replied back to my comment where I said you sounded super honest. (But maybe you just read the his/her part and didn't really pay attention.) Post 128 mentions it too.
@Eco, regarding scumtells that aren't really tells, I'm guessing you think, "Voting someone who isn't in the game during RVS" falls in the same category?
I didn't read in-depth but I got a townread on Eco out of my skim.
Hi GJ, try not to let your sore loser syndrome affect your totally real scumread on me, yeah?
Eh....why are you skimming on the first real life day of the first game Day when there's only a hundred posts since your last post? Or rather, why did you feel the need to pop in, [captain obvious observation], [random generic townread], [snarky unproductive response]? As opposed to something thoughtful and constructive that actually touches on current events?
Please.
If every post could only be thoughtful and constructive, we wouldn’t be on page four.
I mostly just wanted to say hi to GJ, and mock him as he is deserving.
looks like a case of a wolf attacking things that are scummy in a vacuum to create something to push, intermixed with attempting to come across as town
was also a super minor, nitpicky thing in a post that struck me as being very artificial to include:
Hmm, I could see this, perhaps. If you're town, thanks for the perspective.
the "if you're town" qualifier in particular here just really feels like attempting to display being town by considering alignment when the alignment of the person posting it just doesn't really matter - a different perspective to consider is a different perspective to consider
artificial is the word of the day with a lot of cantripmancer's posts - i might have to do some meta diving in some other games to see if he's just one of those players, but a lot of things just don't feel like things he's genuinely saying, but instead putting on a front to try and appear town
eco and GJ probably strongest town reads currently
i don't think lngr and cantrip are scum together, and independently i tend to think wolves care more about perception, and are less likely to blatantly fish the way he did
basically, i think a wolf knows how bad it'll look and shies away from doing that, where a villager sees no real reason to hide their curiosity about the setup, especially if their own role indicates there could be things at play
it's not how i play, or would play, but i think it's actually something that comes from town a lot more than scum in this situation, despite how pro-scum it seems to be
I was planning on putting this game off until Thursday because I’m kinda tired, but that’s starting to fade.
I remember Lngr fishing for PRs (lol) but I think I’m okay with it, depending on how I feel once I read the game as a whole. No scum is that daft, and I doubt this is his first game.
eco and GJ probably strongest town reads currently
i don't think lngr and cantrip are scum together, and independently i tend to think wolves care more about perception, and are less likely to blatantly fish the way he did
basically, i think a wolf knows how bad it'll look and shies away from doing that, where a villager sees no real reason to hide their curiosity about the setup, especially if their own role indicates there could be things at play
it's not how i play, or would play, but i think it's actually something that comes from town a lot more than scum in this situation, despite how pro-scum it seems to be
Describe the tl;dr of your townread on GJ? Not super important, but I’m curios and won’t be able to read things for an hour or so.
shadow's VT claim is wifom i don't really feel like touching or considering currently
i don't know enough about them as a player to say if it's something they'd do as town or scum more than not, though the obvious strategic value as a wolf is there - that there's a ready made excuse for never dying
vaimes is a light town read. kind of like the light-heartedness in response to my town read of him, and also kind of don't think he's a scum with cantrip, the previous post where he asks if he's "trying to be a good little townie" mirrors my own thoughts on his play pretty strongly
don't really have any strong feelings about anyone else that has posted - people town reading riku for his early game feels notable because i don't really understand the read, but indication seems to be it's meta-based, so that'd explain it. would be interested in hearing thoughts from anyone else that knows them well on the matter - both what they think riku's alignment is, and if it's a valid thought shadow could/should have had
i don't think azrael has posted yet, and rhand feels vaguely town maybe? i want to say he town read me too easily, but i can see it being a real thought he had based on not knowing someone and seeing that happen (for the record, you should not town read me for not caring about flavor, i don't look at flavor as scum either)
eco and GJ probably strongest town reads currently
i don't think lngr and cantrip are scum together, and independently i tend to think wolves care more about perception, and are less likely to blatantly fish the way he did
basically, i think a wolf knows how bad it'll look and shies away from doing that, where a villager sees no real reason to hide their curiosity about the setup, especially if their own role indicates there could be things at play
it's not how i play, or would play, but i think it's actually something that comes from town a lot more than scum in this situation, despite how pro-scum it seems to be
Describe the tl;dr of your townread on GJ? Not super important, but I’m curios and won’t be able to read things for an hour or so.
lack of pretenses maybe? just feels like he's here, posting, very level 1 trying to actually solve
Yeah, Cheese, that’s the first time you’ve mentioned me on this page, so I dunno what you thought I reacted to.
wasn't on this page - was earlier in game, where i semi-jokingly called you town based on you not giving town reads out, and it felt like a pretty natural response
@Cheesecake: FWIW I never need a reason to be alive, I’ve endgamed almost every game I’ve been in, for good or for ill. As far as which alignment I’d be more likely to do it as, both. I know it’s all self meta but I might as well answer.
@Highroller: Normally when someone would vote a player outside the game and/or the mod and/or something silly like "Vote: Elvis Presley" (when no player named "Elvis Presley" is in the game), they'd catch a lot of flak for it. I suspect you are not in part because you've so frequently engaged in flavor gaming, so players feel like you are on a bit of a learning curve and aren't just voting you (or maybe I'm just projecting, because that's the main reason I'm not suspecting you for it). It used to be a bit more of a common "wild and crazy thing" to make games where the mod could be voted, but that's not so much the case anymore. (I mean, if you want to wait for a vote count and see what happens, go for it, but I'm doubtful that your vote will show up in the vote count.)
was also a super minor, nitpicky thing in a post that struck me as being very artificial to include:
Hmm, I could see this, perhaps. If you're town, thanks for the perspective.
the "if you're town" qualifier in particular here just really feels like attempting to display being town by considering alignment when the alignment of the person posting it just doesn't really matter - a different perspective to consider is a different perspective to consider
Not true. If he's scum, especially if he's scum with LnG, then he's smokescreening a plausible reason for LnG to have made that post. I'm only grateful to him for that if he's town and sincere. Why would I be grateful to scum!GJ for misleading me?
Quote from Cheesecake »
artificial is the word of the day with a lot of cantripmancer's posts - i might have to do some meta diving in some other games to see if he's just one of those players, but a lot of things just don't feel like things he's genuinely saying, but instead putting on a front to try and appear town
I take solace in knowing that I'm sincere, but feel some sadness that multiple people outside my suspected scum team feel like I'm scummy. Won't let it kill my mood, though. Secret Agent Mafia for Most Positive Game 2019!
i don't think lngr and cantrip are scum together, and independently i tend to think wolves care more about perception, and are less likely to blatantly fish the way he did
basically, i think a wolf knows how bad it'll look and shies away from doing that, where a villager sees no real reason to hide their curiosity about the setup, especially if their own role indicates there could be things at play
it's not how i play, or would play, but i think it's actually something that comes from town a lot more than scum in this situation, despite how pro-scum it seems to be
I disagree. I think town are going to be more cautious about that kind of thing. But I could be wrong.
@Shadow: Why are you voting Highroller, and what do you think of my read of your VT slip? I wasn't being facetious: did you REALLY think you were just "crumbing" there?
@Highroller: *gasp* But...but............I *do* like fun! *single tear rolls from corner of my eye* I hope you know, sirrah, that this means war! En garde! Nothing else to contribute to the discussion at this time?
@Cantrip, I think you're not taking into account that I also let others know that I would be willing to donate coins if there is a way to do that. Thankfully, this game does have a way to message people anonymously, so if that role exists, they can ping me that way if they care to.
Why do you feel like this is a point in your favor, eh?
@Cantrip, also, you replied back to my comment where I said you sounded super honest. (But maybe you just read the his/her part and didn't really pay attention.) Post 128 mentions it too.
No, thanks for setting me straight. I felt like your 135 was alluding to me being scum for scumreading your question.
@Shadow: ... and what do you think of my read of your VT slip? I wasn't being facetious: did you REALLY think you were just "crumbing" there?
It should have been obvious to anyone paying enough attention, it’s still a breadcrumb even if the gingerbread house is 5 yards in front of you.
Ok, then break it down for me. LnG posts his question. GJ brings some attention to it, even saying "stahp". LnG says "no one has to answer if they don't feel like it". GJ responds, LnG interacts with Rhand, the discussion seems to be finished. Why was outting yourself as VT a good move in that moment?
Quote from Shadow »
Also, don’t get disheartened, I can tell that you’re having a great time
@eco: not trying to shade you, you sidestepped my question entirely and then cast it poorly and I want to know why.
Alright, I'll stop being coy, even though you didn't ask for my reasons, you presumed them and presumed incorrectly. I voted you because I agree with Tom that town Shadow would be more likely to feel loose enough to bandwagon onto Eco with his bro rather than just observe but not join in. I felt that your town reads list was presented at a time when they were starting to acquire town cred and at a time when people were gaining town cred for posting town reads - it looked like an attempt to cash in by committing to the budding consensus and try and get into a town circle. Finally I felt like your vote on LnGrrR was a bit of a setup - you were so keen to see LnGrrR's response, but I don't really agree that's it's forced nonchalance, nor that "oh crap shutting up" would be a more likely thing for a townie to do. So the vote looks opportunistic after intentionally avoiding straight following Cantrip.
I was thinking it's Cantrip / Shadow / ? until Cantrip went after Shadow. That doesn't feel like scum/scum.
I think I misjudged Shadow's townblock post. It felt to me like he saw me creating a townblock and wanted in on that by adding my name to my own townreads. But probably it was just mindmeld and we do have the same reads.
Cantrip is likely scum for jumping on Lngr for the fishing. Lngr does know better and would never make a post like that as scum. I think Cantrip jumped on the low-hanging fruit there.
vote Cantripmancer
Where I am at now:
Town:
SleepyCheesecake
Gentleman Johnny
LnGrrrR
Lean town:
Ecophagy
Shadowlancerx
Rumanshi
Null:
Highroller
tomsloger
Vaimes
Azrael
Scum:
Cantripmancer
rand scum for going the wrong direction on cantrip/shadow
Random hottake: Cantrip is intentionally trying to play in a feisty manner to mask his alignment from the likes of myself/Tom. Which, scum!cantrip would obviously feel the need to do, but town!cantrip may also attempt it for the sake of it.
Would be keen to hear Tom's take on this
feistiness would have nothing to do with scumcantrip actively fooling me. Not relevant to how ive caught him in the past, and not particularly relevant to his alignment imo
Uh
Shadow scummy for thinking feistiness is AI for cantrip
Eco scummy for seeing what is clearly a playful mood as a bad one in the quote mangle right before this
I don't find this particular avenue of nitpickiness productive imo. This is a game, and sometimes I'll do something whimsical or pointless because I want to.
But if you're town and this helps, more power to you.
"Covert intelligence involves a lot of waiting around. Know what it's like being a spy? Like sitting in your dentist's reception area twenty-four hours a day. You read magazines, sip coffee, and every so often, someone tries to kill you."
Michael Westen
tomsloger (1): Rumanshi
Shadowlancerx (3): Vaimes, tomsloger, Ecophagy
Azrael (1): SleepyCheesecake
GentlemanJohnny (1): LnGrrrR
LnGrrrR (2): Cantripmancer, Shadowlancerx
Cantripmancer (1): Rhand
Not voting (3): Highroller, Gentleman Johnny, Azrael
EWP: @Shadow: Interesting comment. Why would town!me care about masking my alignment?
@cantrip: because it will work better for your overall gameplay in the long run? Do you not think like that?
@Cantrip, not sure you read me right. I meant that I am confident enough to where, if I am mislynched, people will take the time to look at my wagon and analyze scum. Scum who vote me won't be able hide behind a "You can't blame me for jumping on him, he was obvious scum, right town?!?" excuse.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
FWIW (straight from this horse's mouth, since you can obviously just take my word for it), I'm not trying to mask my alignment. Just enjoying myself more than I anticipated (because of [redacted]).
@LnG: No, I read you right. I'm asking if you think I'm scum because of what I'm attacking you for. And:
I don't know if the info I might gain would be more useful to me than scum. That's why it is up to each person to decide if they want to share or not. I feel that goes with any sort of non-L-2 claim though.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
My brain tries to reconcile "fishing is bad" with "LnG is experienced enough to know that". It doesn't feel like a choice that logically comes from either alignment, so it then becomes a question of which is more likely, that town!LnG was having funsies and accidentally posted a question that could have provided free information to the scum, or that scum!LnG got nervous and encouraged (or discouraged) by the lack of response to the first mild fishing question and pushed it further, confident that he could wriggle out from under it if he came under pressure. I feel like it's more likely the latter.
@LnG: 1) Sorry, I must have missed you calling me town. 2) If you're town, I have to disagree with your thought process completely. A town player floating a general "hey, anyone want to offer up free information in-thread? You can participate or not!" question is helping the scum team TWICE by both fishing for info AND attracting attention for said fishing. There are better ways to generate conversation/search for reads, imo. And asking an accross-the-board question to everyone that you don't actually expect everyone to answer is...counter-intuitive.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
@Eco, regarding scumtells that aren't really tells, I'm guessing you think, "Voting someone who isn't in the game during RVS" falls in the same category?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
If every post could only be thoughtful and constructive, we wouldn’t be on page four.
I mostly just wanted to say hi to GJ, and mock him as he is deserving.
Are you trying to be a good little townie?
Shadowlancerx
GJ
Rhand
Cheesecake
Ruma
Cantrip
Tom
Vaimes
Eco
Highroller
Lingerer
don't think he's town here
looks like a case of a wolf attacking things that are scummy in a vacuum to create something to push, intermixed with attempting to come across as town
was also a super minor, nitpicky thing in a post that struck me as being very artificial to include:
the "if you're town" qualifier in particular here just really feels like attempting to display being town by considering alignment when the alignment of the person posting it just doesn't really matter - a different perspective to consider is a different perspective to consider
artificial is the word of the day with a lot of cantripmancer's posts - i might have to do some meta diving in some other games to see if he's just one of those players, but a lot of things just don't feel like things he's genuinely saying, but instead putting on a front to try and appear town
i don't think lngr and cantrip are scum together, and independently i tend to think wolves care more about perception, and are less likely to blatantly fish the way he did
basically, i think a wolf knows how bad it'll look and shies away from doing that, where a villager sees no real reason to hide their curiosity about the setup, especially if their own role indicates there could be things at play
it's not how i play, or would play, but i think it's actually something that comes from town a lot more than scum in this situation, despite how pro-scum it seems to be
I remember Lngr fishing for PRs (lol) but I think I’m okay with it, depending on how I feel once I read the game as a whole. No scum is that daft, and I doubt this is his first game.
i don't know enough about them as a player to say if it's something they'd do as town or scum more than not, though the obvious strategic value as a wolf is there - that there's a ready made excuse for never dying
vaimes is a light town read. kind of like the light-heartedness in response to my town read of him, and also kind of don't think he's a scum with cantrip, the previous post where he asks if he's "trying to be a good little townie" mirrors my own thoughts on his play pretty strongly
don't really have any strong feelings about anyone else that has posted - people town reading riku for his early game feels notable because i don't really understand the read, but indication seems to be it's meta-based, so that'd explain it. would be interested in hearing thoughts from anyone else that knows them well on the matter - both what they think riku's alignment is, and if it's a valid thought shadow could/should have had
i don't think azrael has posted yet, and rhand feels vaguely town maybe? i want to say he town read me too easily, but i can see it being a real thought he had based on not knowing someone and seeing that happen (for the record, you should not town read me for not caring about flavor, i don't look at flavor as scum either)
Uhhh, if you townread me, I completely missed it.
lack of pretenses maybe? just feels like he's here, posting, very level 1 trying to actually solve
early day one read, but it feels pretty good
wasn't on this page - was earlier in game, where i semi-jokingly called you town based on you not giving town reads out, and it felt like a pretty natural response
mu, couple names, don't really feel like giving those out though
I am voting you, sir! Voter suppression is anti-American!
Alright, but seriously, damn this thread exploded in posts. Is this what a game with people who are actually active looks like?
Nope, just questioning what I find odd.
Not true. If he's scum, especially if he's scum with LnG, then he's smokescreening a plausible reason for LnG to have made that post. I'm only grateful to him for that if he's town and sincere. Why would I be grateful to scum!GJ for misleading me?
I take solace in knowing that I'm sincere, but feel some sadness that multiple people outside my suspected scum team feel like I'm scummy. Won't let it kill my mood, though. Secret Agent Mafia for Most Positive Game 2019!
Did you mean to say "cheeseface"? If so, why?
I disagree. I think town are going to be more cautious about that kind of thing. But I could be wrong.
@Shadow: Why are you voting Highroller, and what do you think of my read of your VT slip? I wasn't being facetious: did you REALLY think you were just "crumbing" there?
@Highroller: *gasp* But...but............I *do* like fun! *single tear rolls from corner of my eye* I hope you know, sirrah, that this means war! En garde! Nothing else to contribute to the discussion at this time?
Why do you feel like this is a point in your favor, eh?
No, thanks for setting me straight. I felt like your 135 was alluding to me being scum for scumreading your question.
Also, don’t get disheartened, I can tell that you’re having a great time
Thank you!! I am!
Shadow/cantrip/gj
No further words on this tbh
Uh
Shadow scummy for thinking feistiness is AI for cantrip
Eco scummy for seeing what is clearly a playful mood as a bad one in the quote mangle right before this
Because I felt like it? For both questions.
I don't find this particular avenue of nitpickiness productive imo. This is a game, and sometimes I'll do something whimsical or pointless because I want to.
But if you're town and this helps, more power to you.