...this is...eh...meh... Ok, so what do you (specifically you, HR) do as town during Night? I will freely admit that there are times when I either don't have time to reread, or I'm outed as confirmed town and highly likely to be the NK and choose not to reread, but I always want to reread and do so if the opportunity arises. When I read the burner phone rules the first time I thought they opened chats, but once Grape set me straight that it was just a one-time message, the first application I thought of was to convey last will and testament thoughts in case of death.
I'm seriously baffled by any player who starts a game and doesn't at least think about how the game mechanics can be used to advantage. Like, if I were scum, I'd be ALLLLL over the opportunity to try to pocket someone and sow wifom/dischord/craziness (and yeah, I sent a message to someone I say I'm townreading, so yeah, I could totally be openly wolfing, but I'm not, but you can't trust that, so it's wifom, so go find something else to attack me for). In fact, here's a fun tidbit that you can confirm by asking Grape: burner phones are anonymous unless otherwise specified! I didn't even think to ask Grape about that until after I had sent my message, but if I were scum, I'm pretty sure I would have asked that question a lot sooner. I don't think divulging this is going to be detrimental to town because now we're on our guard (and I think an anonymous message would be met with serious scrutiny anyway), but it's just one example of the kinds of things a game mechanic leads to. To say "I didn't even consider utilizing a resource/mechanic that's in the game" feels...ludicrous to me. Even if you see yourself as a "purist" and commit to relying only on reads/never using mechanics (lolwut?), as part of the game, you've got to be thinking about how the other team might be trying to use/subvert the mechanics!
We get it. You have way too much time on your hands.
I didn't do anything with regards to this game last night. I was busy with the other mafia game I'm in and life matters.
Cantrip, ill get to you in a second, I have work ***** to deal with.
Eh, no rush. Real life, especially job, is more important.
@HR: No, I mean, what is your *general* Night plan of action when you're town? Not last night specifically, but any given Night.
Also, I *don't* have lots of time on my hands. I have two kids and a wife with lots of medical difficulties, so in addition to my job (where I actually have more leeway and freedom to participate), I generally work on domestic stuff each evening until 10 or 11, then if I'm lucky, get an hour to myself before I go to bed so I can get up there next morning at 5:30 and start again. (Right now I'm finishing up some lemon rosemary fettuccini, yum!) So I've *made* time for this. Do I expect everyone to neglect real life to play? No, certainly not. But I will happily take your snide little personal attack as further evidence that you're scum.
@HR, you can't just say, "Who knows why scum would switch wagons?!? Wifom!". You can't WIFOM everything. How do you know I am not a PR, and therefore wanted to LOOK scummy in order not to get NK'D? Oh no it is the Ghost od WIFOM OOOOOOOOoooooOOOOOHHHH.
It is also laughable that you said you agree with Shadow that I was scum, like he was pushing for my lynch all day when he changed his mind and went after... hmm who was it he was on all day... so hard to remember.... wait wait, I know! This highroller guy...
@Cantrip, not the question, my answer. Once I amswered, you were like, "Oh that makes sense from town. OR SCUM PRETENDING to be town, nudge nudge wink wink know what I mean?" Did my answer feel towny or scummy to you? Not "it could be this or that", I want gut feeling on honesty.
Re: messages, one thing to be aware of. Due to their anonymous nature, scum could try sending an anonymous message pretending to be someone, then off that person. A lot harder to do with unique voices, but just throwing that out there in case in some lynch or lose some guy is like, "I received a message from X who totally said Y is scum if he dies tonight!"
@Cantrip, not the question, my answer. Once I amswered, you were like, "Oh that makes sense from town. OR SCUM PRETENDING to be town, nudge nudge wink wink know what I mean?" Did my answer feel towny or scummy to you? Not "it could be this or that", I want gut feeling on honesty.
And I know there is scum on Shadows wagon because there were only five people off wagon. Those five include myself, Shadow, and cheesecake, all town. So unless there are only 2 scum, there is at least 1 scum on Shadows lynch.
Lol...I need a :taught: emoji for when I get schooled. Of *course* that would be your perspective (whether genuine or manufactured), eh? My apologies. Although there is still the possibility that it's you, Rhand, and GJ, but...I don't think it is.
Sorry...I thought that was pretty straightforward. I voiced my understanding of your perspective, I said that a LnG/Rhand/GJ scumteam could be a possibility, but ended the response by saying I don't think it is. That's my gut feeling: I don't think the team is you, Rhand, and GJ. The "(whether genuine or manufactured)" part meant that I don't know that your perspective in this instance is necessarily AI. Town would go "only two question marks off the wagon; must be at least one scum on the wagon". Scum thrilled with an all-town wagon on Shadow could fabricate that read, but I think it's less likely than you being town.
Quote from LnG »
Re: messages, one thing to be aware of. Due to their anonymous nature, scum could try sending an anonymous message pretending to be someone, then off that person. A lot harder to do with unique voices, but just throwing that out there in case in some lynch or lose some guy is like, "I received a message from X who totally said Y is scum if he dies tonight!"
Eh...I agree that it would be hard to fake a message because of voice/tone/content/perspective, but this is a good observation in general.
And to be clear, I am the tracker, not a watcher* I didn't use the correct terminology. I got to see who Highroller targeted, so it concerns me that I wasn't able to.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
@Riku, ok so here's what's throwing me. The most likely explanation for you unsuccessfully targeting him is a roleblock... but you said you're the roleblocker too. When you spend the coin, do you track + roleblock? Or just roleblock?
@Rhand, when you get a moment on the train, can you throw up a reads list?
Without a coin, I am able to track a person who they visit.
If I spend [] amount of coins, I am able to pay someone to stop them from committing their action.
The most likely explanation does not mean it is the only explanation. What I do know is that my action was unsuccessful. I tracked Highroller under the assumption of thinking he was vanilla. If this was wrong, tracking him would have revealed this.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
I really need to rethink some stuff because I've been wrong on my biggest scumread.
...just to be sure, who are you referring to here?
This is how I realise you haven't read a single post I've made yesterday. I've had multiple posts in which I either tried to vote, attack or simply mention cheesecake as my biggest scumread. I've also posted several times that I wasn't feeling shadow scum and was only voting for me him to not vote for highroller and for coins. There's also my clear on Riku, but I think it was also pretty obvious that he was never my biggest scumread.
Show of hands Cantrip: How many posts did you read from me yesterday?
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@Riku, you "pay" them? That doesn't mean you give the person you RB a coin, right? It's just flavor?
And yes, I'm familiar with Occam's Razor. I'm just trying to get into your head.
Also, after reading Token Power 2, you should probably be more clear with your terminology
Shadow (7): Eco, Cantrip, ruma, vez, highroller, vaimes, tom
Highroller (4): Shadow, rhand, cheese, lngrr
Vez (1): GJ
Ok, assuming that Vez and Riku are telling the truth for now, then that leaves Eco, Cantrip, Highroller, Vaimes and Tom.
I think the majority of people in this game agree that the likelihood of an all-town wagon on Shadow is unlikely. (And for those of us off the wagon who are town, we know it's an impossibility.) Given this, I think, barring some weird obvious misstep, we should look at these five on the wagon toDay. (And yes Highroller, even if you think HR and I are scum, there's still a third so you can look for him/her.)
I’m dual fisting an iphone and ipad to make it a bit more comfortable to respond to stuff.
I’m reading on one and typing on the other, so can’t quote. I’ll use post numbers instead.
@GJ: do you still believe in that soul read of tom? Posts like #1018 make me think he slipped into his scum meta.
post #1020: I have no idea what you mean about Cantrip. If I am mistaken about your role, I will have to reread you. No time for that now and certainly not a priority for me.
@Cantrip: post #1021: Why would you not simply post your thoughts in thread instead of messaging it to 1 person?
Why did you wait until now to share that info on burner phone + action?
And most importantly: did it not ever cross your mind that there might be a town way of passing coins in a pr somewhere that could activate powerful roles?
The fact that you “used” the burner phone on your most plausible buddy does nothing for me.
And would you use a burner phone as scum? Sure, because you’ve got a whole explanation on why using it is the town thing to do.
If you would flip town I would be less sure about Eco and probably pursue Highroller.
Actually seeing Eco’s posts, I’m less sure about Eco period.
@Eco: are you generally more useful from Day2 onwards?
Riku botching a claim worries me. Just saw him do that in a micro as scum.
@Lngr: I gave a readlist recently. Hasn’t really changed much; Eco up a bit, less certain about Riku/Vezok.
@Rhand: I also self voted at a botched claim as scum, so you can take that 'worry' and put it somewhere useful, rather than spreading fear based on a different game in a different circumstance.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
@Rhand, my bad, mea derpa culpa. According to your list, which has Eco, Cantrip and Tom, those are the 1st, 2nd, and last votes on Shadow's wagon. Do you think they had a high respect for Shadow and decided as a team to take him down? Or that it occurred naturally in the space of the game that all 3 jumped on him?
If I’m right about that team, then I think Cantrip and Eco decided early to park their vote there, and tom just opportunically hammered.
I know that when I’m scum, I like it when who I’m voting doesn’t get lynched because that gives you no accountability later, and I think that’s maybe what they were hoping for.
@Riku, I guess my question wasn't clear. I meant to ask why Tom claimed more explicitly now, and whether you clarifying you were a tracker instead of a Watcher made a difference. Tom's answer to my 2nd question tells me it didn't and he just came out with it because no one caught his hints.
"1) Did finding out that Riku is a Role blocker as opposed to a Watcher make a significant difference in your opinion?"
You messed up your question in that case.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
@Riku, yeah, I know. Maybe third time is the charm.
"Tom, why did you just counter claim Vez now? Earlier in the day, Riku said he was a watcher, and you didn't explicitly counter claim. Later, Riku corrected himself and said he was a tracker. Did his clarification make a difference in why you explicitly counter claimed, or would you have still counter claimed if no one picked up on your breadcrumbs?"
Tom scum for sticking too long to his original plan of trying to lynch one of vez's buddies (which i think [one of rhand/cantrip] is the best place to start) and not have to claim til d3
But i think this day would have ended in a mislynch if i hadnt done this, amd not even a good one since everyones worlds were too far off
>"Can the mafia communicate normally or only through burner phones?"
>"Why would I use a burner phone?"
Kiiinda reads like we're supposed to believe he didn't use the phone, therefore he isn't mafia? That one's thin.
I didn't actually mean it that way. This was a theory of mine. Could it be that in this game, the mafia can only communicate using burner phones?
No, the why would I use a burner phone thing is merely that, I have no idea why I would have used one. I had nothing to say that I didn't already say in the thread, I'm not masons with anyone so I would have no one to necessarily communicate a strategy or have a discussion with, and I didn't feel like sending a meme because I don't even send those in real life. What was I supposed to have sent that must make me mafia that I didn't?
No, I mean, what is your *general* Night plan of action when you're town? Not last night specifically, but any given Night.
I mean, you can't generalize. Obviously it depends on whether or not I have a role with actions at night. If I'm a vanilla town or otherwise a role without night actions, I might prep my next post for the coming day, or I might just take the two or three days off and not even think about the game, come back fresh. I might do analysis, although I'll usually wait until the night kill results to do that, especially when it's early in the game and the results might change my perspective entirely.
But I will happily take your snide little personal attack as further evidence that you're scum.
That was rude, and I apologize.
The fact of the matter is I really don't give a crap about the burner phones. I don't see why I would use one, and I am clearly nowhere near as obsessed about their individual minutiae as you are. You're arguing this makes me mafia. So, follow this logic with me: my NOT communicating at night makes me mafia? Oh really?
This is a bad argument, but I don't think it's a mafia tell, because I get that you think that this thing is really cool. Ok, it's cool that you're excited about it. Yeah, it's a nifty little toy to play with. But arguing that it has such amazing utility that it'd be mafia to not use it? No. It's not an inspection or a watching ability.
I don't know if you play D&D, but to draw an analogy, this is a Sending spell. Is Sending useful? It can be in certain situations. Is it the same level of useful as Fly, Fireball, Haste, or a healing spell? No, not even close.
lngrr scum for not realizing ive basically been counterclaiming all along. Read my posts about him again yo
... I actually want to comb through the thread with this newfound information in mind before jumping to posting my opinions on it. It's why I haven't posted my thoughts on the shadowlancerx wagon yet.
@HR, I can't wait to read your post after rereading. I'm sure it will be as effective as that time you reread and forgot the whole beginning part of the game where we discussed me asking about coin donation.
Given that you denigrate people for spending time on this game (you know, "tryharding"), when do you think we can expect your thoughts on Tom's claim and Shadow's wagon? Day 5 perhaps? Or do you expect you will really hunker down and get to business, posting your thoughts, say, 30 minutes before deadline?
I actually did reread Tom from beginning of Vez's claim. There aren't that many posts. Here I'll even help you a bit.
For reference, Vez claimed post 774. Tom's post 775.
Rhand/vez scum still vibes a lot more to me than any of ruma/shadow/highroller. So im more watching them and the people i think are town than trying to sort through the wagons on their own merits
As for gj read. Not super into talking about it but if i fully understood it all its a read scum are more likely to make but less likely to vocalize when they do. So i can see you thinking its not a route wolves are likely to take but dont think its more than a percentage point or two and barely care about it
@lngrr
Vez is scum claiming a role that buys him 2 days. Doesnt mean i want to lynch an unCCed cop d1 (nor do i want a CC tbh), but im still watching his votes closely
Rhand is scum still mainly for progression on me, which he doesnt actually have...
But the rest of his stances you can also watch morphing based on thread opinion of him/those people and its just an extremely scummy interaction with thread flow.
Hi
Pretty sure we had v/v wagons and highroller is just VT.
Which would maybe make cantrips scummy eod... not scummy? Because it at least looks like he cared about the result
Not real married to that though
Im now realizing i forgot the gimmick but whatever im at work.
V/la through the weekend
And i think i want to vote vezok for now. I just dont believe the claim and think his highroller defense comes from scum 90% of the time regardless of highroller alignment
Vez scum because i think cheese got killed for looking like a cop responding to vez fakeclaim.
Thats what i thought anyway and vezscum seems the most likely team to kill him
Rhand and cantrip both scum, but not together.
Gut says i want to lynch in those two today tbh, but we got a lot of time. No dichotomy there but based on my reads and some world building theres usually one scum in the two which helps solving the other a lot.
Actually wanna vote cantrip aorn.
This is not a "cantrip is scummier than rhand now" but rather a "yeah ok maybe im tunnelled this is the scumflip that would get me out of it if im wrong"
His eod isnt as bad with highroller being town, but some amount of the rest of his play looks worse
Lets call the two of them a new tier thats still more likely town than vez but below the pile of shrugs and sighs that is gj
Would not vote outside of those 4 (vez, rhand, cantrip, gj) today barring something major happening.
Gj scum for asking good questions to everyone but me.
Come on man what do you think you've done worth moving you out of null?
Tom scum for voting vez to state his opinion for the record, then moving on to someone that should actually be a lynch candidate today.
I guess.
Yes obviously dont lynch vez today in the event hes real scum have to deal with him. I still think hes scum though.
Vez scum because a full cop never exists in this setup with ruma being a tracker + [the investigative role that ive been softing pretty obviously]
Dont really think i should have to claim it but i will if necessary
vote vezok
There ya go. If Tom is scum, he set this up early D1, and he's soft counterclaiming a claimed cop. If town!Vez is lynched, then it confirms town!Riku and puts a ton of pressure on scum!Tom D3 tomorrow.
Other options are that town!Tom is mistaken and his role could still be town with a tracker/RBer in town AND a cop. Or scum!Tom decided for some reason to hardbus scum!Vez but that would be insane and just isn't worth putting any thought towards at all. And really, neither is the 1st in my opinion.
I don't really want to jump straight to believing a counter claim from the person I'm currently voting, but I do agree that a coinless Tracker + whatever Tom claims to be + an alignment cop + Cheesecake's Watch shot is really too much investigative power for a Mini. I'm not really sure why Tom as scum would counterclaim here and sacrifice himself for Vezok. I'm also not really sure why Vezok as scum would have investigated Riku as town when he could have, say, claimed to have investigated his top-scum-read Cheesecake.
I will note that in the case of scum!Tom playing a gamble, it means that he has to get Vez lynched, then probably kill Riku N2 because it would confirm Riku as town, then D3 fight off the lynch and probably lie about an investigation coming up positive for "scum". And he came up with this plan and started planting the seed of it 15 minutes after Vez's claim. I'm not saying Tom isn't good enough to do that but... that seems convoluted.
@Eco, guessing you think rhand/Tom are unaligned. Are there any other unaligned pairs?
I would agree with that. There are probably a lot of unaligned pairs but I haven't really sat down and thought about them. Off the top of my head I'd say LnGrrR/Cantrip, GJ/Vezok, HR/LnGrrR, HR/GJ. I don't think these are super useful though.
Quote from Cantrip »
BTW, Grape confirmed with me that while *you* can't quote my message, *I* can copy-pasta my own message here verbatim, if desired, since it's just my own thoughts. So if you think it'd be a good idea, I am perfectly happy and willing to dump that whole thing into the thread (tucked into a spoiler for the faint of heart), with my secret (and one note about you) redacted (or not, if you think that needs to be made known, too). The primary intent of the communication was to ensure that my thoughts survived if I did not.
I think it would be a good idea to post it, or at least the salient points since I don't know how many people want to open a note-dump spoiler. But it would be helpful for people other than just me to be able to analyse it.
Do you have any town reads (whether related to interactions with you or not)?
No one that pushes into, "I strongly doubt this guy's mafia" yet, no. [/quote]
This is quite disappointing after a thousand posts to be honest. Is there even someone who think is unlikely to be mafia even if it's not very strong? At the moment, you have two scum reads (because they bandwagoned you) and the rest of the game is question marks, but you're not making an active attempt to work them out - you're instead trading snark with people you think are mafia.
Actually seeing Eco’s posts, I’m less sure about Eco period.
@Eco: are you generally more useful from Day2 onwards?
I like to think I'm generally useful at all stages of the game. But yes, like literally every mafia player in existance, I get more useful with flips to work with.
I don't know. Sometimes I feel I get worse as the game goes on. I feel like I am always picking the wrong person as the game goes further, and become more paranoid the longer I stay alive. (Because if I was right on target, I probably would be NK'd already.)
That could just be my Catholic upbringing forcing my self-doubt and lack of conviction, though
This is quite disappointing after a thousand posts to be honest. Is there even someone who think is unlikely to be mafia even if it's not very strong? At the moment, you have two scum reads (because they bandwagoned you) and the rest of the game is question marks, but you're not making an active attempt to work them out - you're instead trading snark with people you think are mafia.
I've been watching a lot of people make a lot of posts this game, some of them employing a great deal of effort into making complex analysis of the game that ultimately proved entirely wrong. All of that effort and time for nothing. I don't aspire to be entirely wrong. Hence biding my time.
Give me a few days. I am sure I can come up with something.
And yet, ya didn't. It's almost as though the arguments against me are nonexistent. But keep digging yourself into a hole. I'm sure you'll get to China someday.
@HR, hey, don't know if you noticed, but I don't care about lynching you toDay. That whole Tom/Vez thing kinda got in the way. I know you probably missed it, but it's just a few posts up from here. I know getting the most stuff wrong in the least amount of time/posts is important to you, but maybe you could, I don't know, read it? Then... comment on it? Perhaps give an opinion? After all, no one is scoring you on the end of the game about the amount of prediction you've gotten right or wrong. (Which is probably a good thing in your case.)
I've been watching a lot of people make a lot of posts this game, some of them employing a great deal of effort into making complex analysis of the game that ultimately proved entirely wrong. All of that effort and time for nothing. I don't aspire to be entirely wrong. Hence biding my time.
To paraphrase, it is better to analyse and be wrong than to have never analysed at all.
I've been watching a lot of people make a lot of posts this game, some of them employing a great deal of effort into making complex analysis of the game that ultimately proved entirely wrong. All of that effort and time for nothing. I don't aspire to be entirely wrong. Hence biding my time.
To paraphrase, it is better to analyse and be wrong than to have never analysed at all.
The difference between a proactive and reactive player:
A proactive player will try and analyse the game to come to an overall conclusion.
A reactive player will see something in a player that doesn't add up.
Both of these playstyles have their flaws.
Which do you think HR is?
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
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I didn't do anything with regards to this game last night. I was busy with the other mafia game I'm in and life matters.
@HR: No, I mean, what is your *general* Night plan of action when you're town? Not last night specifically, but any given Night.
Also, I *don't* have lots of time on my hands. I have two kids and a wife with lots of medical difficulties, so in addition to my job (where I actually have more leeway and freedom to participate), I generally work on domestic stuff each evening until 10 or 11, then if I'm lucky, get an hour to myself before I go to bed so I can get up there next morning at 5:30 and start again. (Right now I'm finishing up some lemon rosemary fettuccini, yum!) So I've *made* time for this. Do I expect everyone to neglect real life to play? No, certainly not. But I will happily take your snide little personal attack as further evidence that you're scum.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
It is also laughable that you said you agree with Shadow that I was scum, like he was pushing for my lynch all day when he changed his mind and went after... hmm who was it he was on all day... so hard to remember.... wait wait, I know! This highroller guy...
@Cantrip, not the question, my answer. Once I amswered, you were like, "Oh that makes sense from town. OR SCUM PRETENDING to be town, nudge nudge wink wink know what I mean?" Did my answer feel towny or scummy to you? Not "it could be this or that", I want gut feeling on honesty.
Re: messages, one thing to be aware of. Due to their anonymous nature, scum could try sending an anonymous message pretending to be someone, then off that person. A lot harder to do with unique voices, but just throwing that out there in case in some lynch or lose some guy is like, "I received a message from X who totally said Y is scum if he dies tonight!"
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Sorry...I thought that was pretty straightforward. I voiced my understanding of your perspective, I said that a LnG/Rhand/GJ scumteam could be a possibility, but ended the response by saying I don't think it is. That's my gut feeling: I don't think the team is you, Rhand, and GJ. The "(whether genuine or manufactured)" part meant that I don't know that your perspective in this instance is necessarily AI. Town would go "only two question marks off the wagon; must be at least one scum on the wagon". Scum thrilled with an all-town wagon on Shadow could fabricate that read, but I think it's less likely than you being town.
Eh...I agree that it would be hard to fake a message because of voice/tone/content/perspective, but this is a good observation in general.
vl/a until the 11th
Should still be able to stay caught up but will be phone posting only.
Will read what y’all wrote yesterday evening and last night on the train.
I was unsuccessful in targeting, which was clearly written in my post.
@Rhand, when you get a moment on the train, can you throw up a reads list?
@Cantrip, thanks for the clarification.
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Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Without a coin, I am able to track a person who they visit.
If I spend [] amount of coins, I am able to pay someone to stop them from committing their action.
The most likely explanation does not mean it is the only explanation. What I do know is that my action was unsuccessful. I tracked Highroller under the assumption of thinking he was vanilla. If this was wrong, tracking him would have revealed this.
This is how I realise you haven't read a single post I've made yesterday. I've had multiple posts in which I either tried to vote, attack or simply mention cheesecake as my biggest scumread. I've also posted several times that I wasn't feeling shadow scum and was only voting for me him to not vote for highroller and for coins. There's also my clear on Riku, but I think it was also pretty obvious that he was never my biggest scumread.
Show of hands Cantrip: How many posts did you read from me yesterday?
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And yes, I'm familiar with Occam's Razor. I'm just trying to get into your head.
Also, after reading Token Power 2, you should probably be more clear with your terminology
Shadow (7): Eco, Cantrip, ruma, vez, highroller, vaimes, tom
Highroller (4): Shadow, rhand, cheese, lngrr
Vez (1): GJ
Ok, assuming that Vez and Riku are telling the truth for now, then that leaves Eco, Cantrip, Highroller, Vaimes and Tom.
I think the majority of people in this game agree that the likelihood of an all-town wagon on Shadow is unlikely. (And for those of us off the wagon who are town, we know it's an impossibility.) Given this, I think, barring some weird obvious misstep, we should look at these five on the wagon toDay. (And yes Highroller, even if you think HR and I are scum, there's still a third so you can look for him/her.)
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I’m reading on one and typing on the other, so can’t quote. I’ll use post numbers instead.
@GJ: do you still believe in that soul read of tom? Posts like #1018 make me think he slipped into his scum meta.
post #1020: I have no idea what you mean about Cantrip. If I am mistaken about your role, I will have to reread you. No time for that now and certainly not a priority for me.
@Cantrip: post #1021: Why would you not simply post your thoughts in thread instead of messaging it to 1 person?
Why did you wait until now to share that info on burner phone + action?
And most importantly: did it not ever cross your mind that there might be a town way of passing coins in a pr somewhere that could activate powerful roles?
The fact that you “used” the burner phone on your most plausible buddy does nothing for me.
And would you use a burner phone as scum? Sure, because you’ve got a whole explanation on why using it is the town thing to do.
If you would flip town I would be less sure about Eco and probably pursue Highroller.
Actually seeing Eco’s posts, I’m less sure about Eco period.
@Eco: are you generally more useful from Day2 onwards?
Riku botching a claim worries me. Just saw him do that in a micro as scum.
@Lngr: I gave a readlist recently. Hasn’t really changed much; Eco up a bit, less certain about Riku/Vezok.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I know that when I’m scum, I like it when who I’m voting doesn’t get lynched because that gives you no accountability later, and I think that’s maybe what they were hoping for.
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Vez scum because a full cop never exists in this setup with ruma being a tracker + [the investigative role that ive been softing pretty obviously]
Dont really think i should have to claim it but i will if necessary
vote vezok
1) Did finding out that Riku is a Role blocker as opposed to a Watcher make a significant difference in your opinion?
2) Why wait until now to counterclaim Vez?
3) Kinda leery about the soft claim, because not sure why scum!Vezok would take such a risk.
Depending on answers, willing to lean into this.
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Idk about ruma yet. Confused by his claim a bit, not sure why vez would pretend to have targeted him.
But vez is just a wolf
If I spend coins, I can roleblock.
I hinted on day 1 that coins had a use other than burner phones.
Vote Vezok Let's see where this goes.
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You messed up your question in that case.
vote:vezok
"Tom, why did you just counter claim Vez now? Earlier in the day, Riku said he was a watcher, and you didn't explicitly counter claim. Later, Riku corrected himself and said he was a tracker. Did his clarification make a difference in why you explicitly counter claimed, or would you have still counter claimed if no one picked up on your breadcrumbs?"
There If that isn't intelligible I give up
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But i think this day would have ended in a mislynch if i hadnt done this, amd not even a good one since everyones worlds were too far off
So yeah gg get rekt vezok
tom scum for being visibly towny even before the CC.
This gimmick morphed into something that isnt even that fun for me. Im being way too towny for my liking
Vaimes scum for joking about that when it is, in fact, the most reliable meta indicator that im scum
No, the why would I use a burner phone thing is merely that, I have no idea why I would have used one. I had nothing to say that I didn't already say in the thread, I'm not masons with anyone so I would have no one to necessarily communicate a strategy or have a discussion with, and I didn't feel like sending a meme because I don't even send those in real life. What was I supposed to have sent that must make me mafia that I didn't?
Absent any good reason to do so, correct.
Not all of us can post at 2 o'clock in the afternoon on a work day.
You asked.
Unlike you, I don't claim clairvoyance.
I mean, you can't generalize. Obviously it depends on whether or not I have a role with actions at night. If I'm a vanilla town or otherwise a role without night actions, I might prep my next post for the coming day, or I might just take the two or three days off and not even think about the game, come back fresh. I might do analysis, although I'll usually wait until the night kill results to do that, especially when it's early in the game and the results might change my perspective entirely.
That was rude, and I apologize.
The fact of the matter is I really don't give a crap about the burner phones. I don't see why I would use one, and I am clearly nowhere near as obsessed about their individual minutiae as you are. You're arguing this makes me mafia. So, follow this logic with me: my NOT communicating at night makes me mafia? Oh really?
This is a bad argument, but I don't think it's a mafia tell, because I get that you think that this thing is really cool. Ok, it's cool that you're excited about it. Yeah, it's a nifty little toy to play with. But arguing that it has such amazing utility that it'd be mafia to not use it? No. It's not an inspection or a watching ability.
I don't know if you play D&D, but to draw an analogy, this is a Sending spell. Is Sending useful? It can be in certain situations. Is it the same level of useful as Fly, Fireball, Haste, or a healing spell? No, not even close.
I just said I don't know who it is. Obviously if I had a suspect in mind, I would have posted it.
I'm not the one WIFOMing. You're asking me why, if I'm town, would the mafia lynch shadowlancerx instead of me.
A. This is clearly WIFOM
B. If I'm town, I wouldn't know. Because I'm town.
Now we can stop walling about it.
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Why aren't we lynching LnGrrrR?
And why no response to Tom's counterclaim yet?
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... I actually want to comb through the thread with this newfound information in mind before jumping to posting my opinions on it. It's why I haven't posted my thoughts on the shadowlancerx wagon yet.
Oh I do. I really do.
Given that you denigrate people for spending time on this game (you know, "tryharding"), when do you think we can expect your thoughts on Tom's claim and Shadow's wagon? Day 5 perhaps? Or do you expect you will really hunker down and get to business, posting your thoughts, say, 30 minutes before deadline?
I actually did reread Tom from beginning of Vez's claim. There aren't that many posts. Here I'll even help you a bit.
For reference, Vez claimed post 774. Tom's post 775.
Then Tom posts some vote counts near end of day and shifts his vote a bit from Rhand to Riku to Shadow to Highroller.
Here are all the posts referencing Vez afterwards (which are a majority of his overall posts):
There ya go. If Tom is scum, he set this up early D1, and he's soft counterclaiming a claimed cop. If town!Vez is lynched, then it confirms town!Riku and puts a ton of pressure on scum!Tom D3 tomorrow.
Other options are that town!Tom is mistaken and his role could still be town with a tracker/RBer in town AND a cop. Or scum!Tom decided for some reason to hardbus scum!Vez but that would be insane and just isn't worth putting any thought towards at all. And really, neither is the 1st in my opinion.
Hope that helped! I aim to please, after all.
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I don't really want to jump straight to believing a counter claim from the person I'm currently voting, but I do agree that a coinless Tracker + whatever Tom claims to be + an alignment cop + Cheesecake's Watch shot is really too much investigative power for a Mini. I'm not really sure why Tom as scum would counterclaim here and sacrifice himself for Vezok. I'm also not really sure why Vezok as scum would have investigated Riku as town when he could have, say, claimed to have investigated his top-scum-read Cheesecake.
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I would agree with that. There are probably a lot of unaligned pairs but I haven't really sat down and thought about them. Off the top of my head I'd say LnGrrR/Cantrip, GJ/Vezok, HR/LnGrrR, HR/GJ. I don't think these are super useful though.
I think it would be a good idea to post it, or at least the salient points since I don't know how many people want to open a note-dump spoiler. But it would be helpful for people other than just me to be able to analyse it.
No one that pushes into, "I strongly doubt this guy's mafia" yet, no. [/quote]
This is quite disappointing after a thousand posts to be honest. Is there even someone who think is unlikely to be mafia even if it's not very strong? At the moment, you have two scum reads (because they bandwagoned you) and the rest of the game is question marks, but you're not making an active attempt to work them out - you're instead trading snark with people you think are mafia.
I like to think I'm generally useful at all stages of the game. But yes, like literally every mafia player in existance, I get more useful with flips to work with.
That could just be my Catholic upbringing forcing my self-doubt and lack of conviction, though
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Phoneposting sucks. Anyways since this thread is quiet, response to this question.
Reasons we are not lynching LnGrrrR:
1) The majority of the game doesn't have me as scum
2) I have interacted with pretty much everyone in this game
3) I didnt vote for tiwn!Shadow, and town!Shadow didn't ask town to investigate me with his dying breath unlike some other people
4) I can manage to have an opinion on every player in D2 after 20+ pages
5) I didn't have a wagon on me that suddenly shifted over to a townie
6) I am not focused almost singlemindedly defending myself
7) I understand the meaning of the term context
8) I am not, generally, a snarky ass playing in a manner that generally isn't helping town at all
Reasons we are not lynching HR:
...
Give me a few days. I am sure I can come up with something.
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And yet, ya didn't. It's almost as though the arguments against me are nonexistent. But keep digging yourself into a hole. I'm sure you'll get to China someday.
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To paraphrase, it is better to analyse and be wrong than to have never analysed at all.
The difference between a proactive and reactive player:
A proactive player will try and analyse the game to come to an overall conclusion.
A reactive player will see something in a player that doesn't add up.
Both of these playstyles have their flaws.
Which do you think HR is?